Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill

Nickie Aiken Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 21st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Peter Gibson]

My hon. Friend raises an incredibly important point. Much of our legislation dates back to previous eras when people did not travel outside their local authority areas, but now vehicles licensed in one local authority could operate entirely in another. Far from being even in neighbouring local authorities, they could be in completely disparate parts of the country.

In the interests of ensuring that the latest and most relevant information is available to the licensing authority, the Bill stipulates that licensing authorities must input the decision details within five working days of notifying the driver of their decision. During the 11 years that the record would be held on the database, the licensing authority must also ensure that it is kept up to date to reflect any changes, such as if the driver successfully appeals the original decision—as indeed they will be able to, just as they may now.

[Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on this excellent private Member’s Bill. I am fascinated to hear what he is saying about the regulation and licensing of private hire vehicles. In London, we have the issue of pedicabs, which can be considered a private hire vehicle but have no licensing regime. We do not know who the drivers are, or how safe they are—in fact, we do not know how safe their vehicles are. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is about time that we had a proper licensing regime for pedicabs in London?

[Peter Gibson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her intervention. She, too, knows the challenges of steering private Members’ Bills through the House, and she rightly continues to raise the issue of pedicabs and to press the House to deliver legislation to deal with it. She has been a tremendous champion of that, and I look forward to her continuing that campaign.

The Bill will give the Government the flexibility to provide the database or to designate another database provider. The database operator will also be able to charge a fee to licensing authorities to cover the cost of administering the database, but that fee would also need to be agreed by the Secretary of State. The fee does not have to be levied; the Government may choose to cover the cost, and I think that adequately deals with the point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight).

Enabling licensing authorities to check an applicant’s previous licensing history with other authorities in respect of suspicions, refusals and revocations will ensure that relevant information can be considered. The aim is to empower our licensing authorities in the vital work they do in protecting the travelling public from the few who seek to do harm.

The other aspect of the Bill is new duties on licensing authorities to report concerns about drivers licensed in other areas and to respond to those reports from other authorities. As Members may be aware, only the licensing authority that issued a driver’s licence can suspend, refuse or revoke it, but, as we know, drivers may be licensed by one local authority but operate almost entirely in another—often a neighbouring local authority, but sometimes much further afield.

Where a licensing authority in England has safeguarding or road safety concerns about a driver licensed in another area that would lead to it considering suspending or revoking that licence had it issued it, the authority will be required to report those concerns to the authority that issued the licence. Those concerns must be reported, even if the licensing authority is based in Wales or Scotland, and they must be reported within 10 working days of the authority’s becoming aware of the relevant information relating to the driver’s conduct in its area.

Where a licensing authority in England receives concerns from another licensing authority in England, Scotland or Wales, it must consider whether to suspend or revoke the driver’s licence. The authority must inform the reporting authority of its decision and reasonings within 20 working days. These measures will help ensure that the licensing authority that issued the licence and is able to suspend or revoke the driver’s licence is aware of serious concerns over its drivers, even when they are working in other areas, so that only those who are fit and proper remain licensed.

Overall, the Bill is about ensuring the safety of our constituents when travelling by taxi or private hire vehicle. From the support the Bill has received across the House, I know it is something we can all get behind. The Bill goes some way towards the reform of our taxi licensing system and improves safeguards for the protection of our constituents. It does not provide for wholesale reform, and it is not a costly measure. It simply and cleanly closes a glaring loophole that frankly should never have been allowed to exist. I commend the Bill to the House.

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[Paul Holmes]

I apologise to you, Mr Speaker, and to my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington for leading him down that path, but my constituents were expecting me to mention that point.

[Nickie Aiken]

Not for the first time!

[Paul Holmes]

Not for the first time, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) outlines. I will get to the cars that service the trains in Eastleigh, but I just say to my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington that Eastleigh is the birthplace of the railways in the south.

This Bill closes some of the loopholes around the good administration, and relieves the current burden on local authorities and licensing authorities. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington that there is a kind of postcode lottery and patchwork quilt approach to the licensing of private taxis in England. As someone who has previously served on a licensing authority in Southampton—[Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster heckles me from a sedentary position; she told me 10 minutes ago that she was chairman of the largest licensing authority in the UK, so I am sure that she will want to intervene and share her experience during my speech.

I remember consistently that when I was a member of the licensing authority, there was a perennial frustration when drivers came before us that we did not necessarily have all the information that we wanted, given the timescales for approving and licensing taxi drivers. We also did not know whether that driver had been before other licensing authorities.

[Nickie Aiken]

As my hon. Friend has just informed the House, I was proud to be the chair of the largest licensing authority in the country. Does he agree that we should thank the outstanding licensing officers—including the licensing enforcement officers—up and down this country, who work so hard to ensure our safety, whether that is in premises, taxis or any other form of licensing?

[Paul Holmes]

I absolutely agree. In my background and in my hon. Friend’s, the teams worked tirelessly to ensure that we have not only roadworthy vehicles, but safe drivers. In addition to her comments, we should also put on record our thanks to the thousands of taxi drivers—my constituents and constituents across the whole UK—who play by the rules, keep their cars up to scratch and provide a service to people in this country. We really do value their lifestyle and the work that they do, and we thank them.

This Bill is good for reassuring millions of users of the taxi trade, particularly people travelling late at night, of their safety. As my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson) said, whereas years ago taxis were predominantly focused on close geographical areas, they are now travelling much further around the country and are being used a lot more. That is why it is so important that licensing authorities across the whole country know where drivers have come from and whether they have not necessarily played by the rules in the past.

It is unfortunate that the most important provision in the Bill, as my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington said, is that it protects people. It protects people who are vulnerable, including young people, but in particular women who may actually be using a taxi for the safe trip home, instead of using public transport; unfortunately, in recent times we have seen the absolute reason why this Bill should pass, which is that it will provide women with that reassurance in getting home.

There is a key problem. It is bizarre that in 2022, we still have an antiquated and outdated system. My hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border said that this licensing regime has been going on for many years. It is bizarre that we have a system that has not got a single, uniform, one-stop code or database to be able to ensure the safety not only of vehicles, which are travelling further, but the people who drive them, who have people in their cars. I use taxis from here at the end of late-night sittings, and sometimes, when I am travelling, when I get back to my constituency, and it is rare to see the same driver twice. The many millions of people who use taxis in this country probably do not see the same driver twice. Given the nature of being in a taxi—with a stranger—it is bizarre that we do not have people being properly checked.

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[Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)]

Like every other Member who has spoken, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) for embarking on this mission to reform the licensing laws governing taxis and private hire vehicles. Given what he has said this morning and what I have read in the Bill, I cannot understand why we have not done this before. I agree that private Members’ Bills can play a vital part in improving legislation, and I thank my hon. Friend for his diligence and his excellent work on this issue.

I have read the Bill in detail, and I am incredulous that one type of vehicle, which is seen particularly in our capital—the pedicab—is exempt from its provisions because of an anomaly in the law. As many Members know, for the last two years I have been trying to get my Pedicabs (London) Bill through the House; I am continuing to do so, and I hope that it will be read again this afternoon.

[Lia Nici]

It seems to me from what my hon. Friend has been saying that the only difference relates to whether or not a vehicle has an engine. What position are passengers in should a pedicab owner have an accident and they are injured? Must they have insurance?

[Nickie Aiken]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising the issue of insurance. She may be shocked and possibly appalled to learn that, as it stands, pedicabs in London have no licensing regime. Therefore, there is no onus on them to have any insurance. Currently, passengers getting into a pedicab have no understanding of the risk they are putting themselves at. There is no legislation that calls on pedicabs in London to have any insurance, and drivers are not checked. Operations conducted in recent weeks by Westminster City Council and the Metropolitan police found drivers who are wanted for sexual offences. Their vehicles have no form of MOT—there is no onus on the driver to have an MOT or any checks on their vehicle. That is why I have been campaigning, since I arrived in this place, to ensure we have a proper licensing regime that mirrors what my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington is trying to do with his Bill.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Can I just stop the hon. Lady there momentarily and suggest that we go back to this Bill? I know and appreciate that the hon. Lady has a separate Bill, which may or may not have a Second Reading this afternoon, but we must focus on this Bill. I have given a little bit of generous leeway, but I think we should get back to the Bill.

[Nickie Aiken]

I appreciate and understand your comments, Mr Deputy Speaker. You will understand my passion to ensure that everybody who gets a pedicab in London is safe, but I will move on.

I pay tribute to the outstanding taxi drivers and private hire vehicle drivers we have in this country. As Members have pointed out, it is clear that they have paid a huge price during the pandemic. One only has to go on to the streets of my constituency to see that the office workers and international travellers have disappeared. I talk to taxi drivers all the time and I know they are desperate for us to get back to normal after the pandemic. I hope the Bill my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington is bringing forward today will give those who work day in, day out to provide a service the comfort that we support their efforts.

Let us not forget that private hire vehicle and taxi drivers provide us with a service, including in taking us to hospital. Many vulnerable citizens going to hospital may not want to get a bus. They may prefer to get a taxi. I have a taxi driver in my own family. I am very proud that my cousin-in-law in Cardiff, Alex, is a black cab driver. He does a brilliant job. I know from first hand the work he does. He supports children with learning difficulties by getting them to school every day of the week. I thank him and drivers like him who are doing that public service, taking our vulnerable patients to hospital and our vulnerable children and young people to school. Quite often, that type of work is forgotten. We think that taxi drivers and private hire vehicle drivers are just those who take us out on a night out or perhaps take us home after we have had a good night out.

In conclusion, I thank my hon. Friend for bringing forward this brilliant Bill. It will make us safer, it will make our drivers safer and it will ensure that our outstanding licensing authorities across the nation, and in particular across England and Wales, provide the extra level of security we all deserve when we get into a private hire vehicle.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Trudy Harrison)]

What has come across more than anything in the debate is the appreciation for the taxi industry, not least during the pandemic, in providing essential services, often to the most vulnerable in our society. I join in all those tributes to taxi drivers and licensing authorities. I will come on to more detail in my response.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) for his tremendous and diligent work on the Bill, and congratulate him on steering it through the House. I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner), whose tenacity has been commented on by many hon. Members. The collegiate way in which he has worked with colleagues across the House is commendable.

I am pleased to give my support and that of the Government to the Bill. My hon. Friend also referenced the many groups that he has worked with to provide such a comprehensive private Member’s Bill for consideration today. He referred to the APPG and organisations such as the Suzy Lamplugh Trust.

As hon. Members may know, regulation of the taxi industry began in the 17th century under King Charles I. The King was so concerned about congestion in the City of London that he issued a proclamation restricting the number of hackney coaches to 50 and preventing them from carrying passengers less than three miles. In spite of that, by the 1760s the services provided by hackney coaches were so popular that there were more than 1,000 such coaches on London streets—although I believe there were no pedicabs at the time—[Laughter.]

The diligent work of so many reputable people in the taxi and private hire trades can be tarnished by the acts of the few. That is something that the Bill will help to prevent, by ensuring that those few are not able to hold a taxi or private hire vehicle licence, so that the vast and respectable majority can build the reputation that they deserve. It is vital that transport users feel safe while travelling alone and late at night. The Bill will help to achieve that for those travelling by taxi or private hire vehicle by ensuring that local licensing authorities have access to relevant safeguarding and road safety information about license applicants and existing licensees applying for renewals.

There has been much talk today about the safety of women and girls using taxi services. I am afraid that I probably have a bit of a reality check for my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood), because in my experience of having four daughters aged 18, 20, 21 and 23, his currently studious daughter will probably be tempted by the night-time economy and find a need to use the services of taxis. My hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (Simon Fell) mentioned his night-time economy, and it is certainly often the reason for my daughters’ use of local taxi services.

I want to set out what we are doing on the violence against women and girls strategy, which pertains to the Bill. Everyone has the right to feel safe when travelling and using public spaces, which is why we will be working with the industry and the Minister of State, Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), who is also on the Front Bench today, to ensure that a real change is made on the ground. The Department is determined to do all that we can to ensure that women and girls are safe when they use the transport network.

[Nickie Aiken]

I agree with what my hon. Friend is saying about ensuring the safety of women and girls on public transport, whether in taxis or otherwise. Does she agree that it is incredibly important that we ensure that the Mayor of London gets the night tube up and running, and takes on the unions that are preventing this from happening, to ensure that women and girls, whether they are working in the night-time economy in London—60% of employees in the night-time economy in London are women—or enjoying a night out, can get home safely?