Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Monday 25th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston) (Lab)]

7. What assessment he has made of the effect of changes in the level of Government contributions to public service pension schemes on the financial sustainability of fire services.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am sure that we all want good public pensions to be affordable over the longer term; and yes, public sector employer contributions will have to rise, including those in the fire and rescue authorities. The Treasury has made clear that it will cover 90% of the additional cost in 2019-20, and following years will be covered by the comprehensive spending review.

[Ms Rimmer]

The Government have not picked up their fair share of the pension fund contribution, which means that local authorities and fire authorities will have to pick up more. We have to pay the pensions. How do the Government expect fire authorities to maintain the increasing calls on their services, and to meet their target call response times, when they have to contribute extra funds that are not provided by the Government?

[Mr Hurd]

What I would say, with respect to the hon. Lady, is that the Treasury is requesting of the fire sector £10 million of additional funding; that is from a sector that will receive £2.3 billion in income and is sitting on almost £600 million of reserves. I think it is affordable, and I hope that she, like me, will welcome the announcement of her local chief fire officer Phil Garrigan about his intention to increase the number of fire engines and firefighters in Merseyside.

[Karen Lee (Lincoln) (Lab)]

We have heard from the Government a number of times that austerity is over, yet this same Government are slashing their financial contributions to fire and rescue pension schemes at the same time as they plan to cut funding by £155 million by 2020. They are piling the pressure on a service which, after nine years of austerity, has fewer firefighters, fewer appliances and rising response times. When will the Minister end the dismantling of our fire service and implement a sustainable funding model to build a service fit for the challenges of the 21st century?

[Mr Hurd]

With respect to whoever is informing the hon. Lady, actually the core spending power of our fire system will increase by 2.3% in cash terms in 2019-20, and, as she is well aware, the system is sitting on £545 million of taxpayers’ money in reserves, a sum that has grown by 80% since 2011. It is therefore hard to argue that the system has been cash-strapped, but the hon. Lady has my assurance that the Home Secretary and I are absolutely committed to making sure that through the next comprehensive spending agreement the British public can continue to rely on a world-class fire service.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

10. What comparative assessment he has made of the number of frontline police officers employed by Northumbria Police in 2010 and 2019.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Mr Nick Hurd)]

The Northumbria police and crime commissioner has announced that the precept will increase by £24 in 2020, meaning that funding will increase by £18 million compared with 2018-19. That is increased local investment in local policing.

[Mr Hepburn]

Since 2010 the Tories have cut Northumbria police’s funding by 25% and given it a 1,000 decrease in the number of police officers on the street, leading to a massive increase in serious crime. Is the Minister proud of this Government’s record?

[Mr Hurd]

Of course, the statistic the hon. Gentleman omits is that the other key thing about 2010 was that this country was then dealing with the largest deficit in our public finances in peacetime history. Over the years we have taken action to tackle that and get the public finances under control—opposed by Labour—and we are now creating the conditions for increased public investment in policing, again opposed by Labour.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

rose—

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[Mr Speaker]

Lincolnshire is only marginally nearer; there is a degree of latitude for the Front Bench, but that is mildly cheeky.

[Mr Hurd]

We are in regular contact with Lincolnshire police. Of course, the hon. Lady stampeded to a worst case scenario and ignored the fact that, as a result of the police funding settlement that she led her party to vote against, Lincolnshire police will be receiving up to £8.6 million in cash next year, a move welcomed by the PCC and the chief.

[Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What assessment he has made of the potential effect of proposals in his immigration White Paper on workers’ rights.

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[Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)]

16. What recent assessment he has made of the potential effect on police forces of changes in the level of Government funding for the police in 2019-20.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Mr Nick Hurd)]

As a result of the police funding settlement, we will be investing almost £14 billion in our police system next year, which is £2 billion more than in 2015-16. Up and down the country, police and crime commissioners have set out their plans to use that additional money to hire about 2,700 additional officers, including more than 40 more in Cheshire, which I hope the hon. Gentleman will welcome.

[Mike Amesbury]

Cheshire police force has lost 135 officers since 2010, and central Government cuts for a ninth consecutive year, in real terms, continue to put real pressures on our local resources. When will the Minister ensure that our PCC gets the resources that he needs?

[Mr Hurd]

As a result of the two funding settlements that I have taken through Parliament, the Cheshire PCC is now in a position to recruit an additional 43 officers and seven police community support officers. I am sure the hon. Gentleman’s constituents will welcome that and wonder why he voted against it.

Topical Questions

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

T9.   I welcome the work that the Home Secretary and the Minister for Policing have done to secure more resources for our police, facilitating Warwickshire police to now recruit an additional 150 officers. Given the impending spending review, will my right hon. Friend continue to push for further police funding, to ensure that the police have the resources they need, and also look at fairer funding for county areas?

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I thank my hon. Friend, not least for his representations to me on behalf of Warwickshire in the run-up to the funding settlement. I am delighted that his constituents will have access to more police officers. I give my assurance to him and other Members who are concerned about the fair funding of policing that police funding is the priority for the Home Secretary and me in the CSR, and within that we have made a commitment to look again at how resources are allocated across the system.

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

T5. What assessment has the Minister made of the effect of the UK leaving the European Union on the relationship between British police forces and their counterparts in other EU countries?

[Mr Hurd]

What I can say to the hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.] I am so sorry. What I can say to the hon. Lady is that over the past few months, the Home Secretary and I have had very regular contact with Interior Ministers across all our European partners, and he and I have detected a very, very strong interest on their part in continuing to work closely with us and, as far as possible, to maintain the capabilities that exist at this moment in time.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

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[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend reminds the House of the eternal truth of, I think, principle 7 of Robert Peel’s nine principles of policing—that the public are the police and the police are the public. I congratulate Spencer and Paul on working with the police to bring criminals to justice.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

T10.   Earlier the Home Secretary was asked about delays to the Windrush compensation scheme. There have been reports this week that one of the reasons for the delays is that he has apparently requested an extra £150 million from other Cabinet colleagues and from the Treasury, otherwise the scheme will not be able to go forward. Is it is true that he has made such a request to the Treasury or the rest of the Cabinet? If so, for how much, and is this why the scheme is being delayed?

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[Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)]

What assessment has the Minister made of the success of police and fire service collaboration in boosting frontline response?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. Northampton is of course a very good example of where the emergency services work together extremely well, not just to find savings in how taxpayers’ money can be deployed in the most efficient way but in delivering a better service to the public. Armed with that evidence, we will continue down that path.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Does the Minister want to take this opportunity to condemn the bizarre events in the west midlands, where we have a Tory councillor and a member of the Mayor’s staff committing identity fraud in order to influence the outcome of the police and crime commissioner consultation? Surely the police are entitled to a higher standard of probity than that.

[Mr Hurd]

I would have thought that a Member of Parliament of the hon. Gentleman’s experience would take a little bit more care with his words in this place, because he will know that any wrongdoing has been denied and that this is the subject of an independent investigation at this moment in time. The Government support the second devolution deal for the west midlands, and that includes incorporating the role and powers of the PCC in the mayoralty as has been done in London and Manchester.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

What steps are Ministers taking that will reassure the people of Witney and rural West Oxfordshire that their police have access to the funding and the numbers that they need?

[Mr Hurd]

I can say to my hon. Friend, who represents my father’s old seat, that I have every interest in making sure that the people of Witney continue to have access to high-quality policing. That is why, through the most recent police and funding settlement, we have taken steps that will see an additional £30-odd million go to Thames Valley police. I hope he welcomes that.

[Several hon. Members rose—]