Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill

Neil Gray Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to be able to speak in this debate, and this will be my last speech in this Chamber. I shall come to that in a moment, but first let me address the substance of the Bill.

I represent a constituency, Airdrie and Shotts, with significant and incredible scientific research based around BioCity and MediCity as well as the Newhouse and Maxim Park industrial estates. Indeed, just last week Amphista Therapeutics, based at BioCity, secured £38 million of investment in its series B financing round to continue its work on potent and selective bifunctional molecules, known as amphistas, and to extend its targeted protein degradation approaches. I am incredibly proud to represent that major hub of the biosciences industry in Scotland, which is projected to be worth £8 billion to the Scottish economy in the coming years.

That industry needs continued support. It needs the start-up funding and ongoing research funding to continue to thrive. I am delighted that the Scottish Government have led the way with the establishment of the Scottish National Investment Bank, which is to have £2 billion of capitalisation and has a clear ambition to achieve net zero. The industry also needs significant and ongoing support to stop the Brexit drain of scientific researchers who have sadly returned to the continent in recent years.

Although I obviously welcome the UK Government’s following the Scottish Government’s lead in establishing a state-backed investment organisation, it is incredibly disappointing that they have not matched that with the ambition to tackle climate change or reduce inequalities. That example has been set by the Scottish Government through the Scottish National Investment Bank. As was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn) in his incredible and fantastic speech from our Front Bench, and by others across the House, the lack of clear focus for ARIA is a major disappointment.

I also want to seek clarity from the Minister on a few issues, to follow on from my hon. Friend’s speech. I want clarity that the Minister has no intention of using ARIA as another Tory Trojan horse to bypass devolved decision making. Will the Minister ensure Scottish researchers and firms such as those in Airdrie and Shotts that I have already spoken about will receive their full Barnettised share of ARIA funding through the Scottish Government? Will the UK Government also commit now to give any powers going to ARIA in areas such as borrowing and debt financing to the Scottish National Investment Bank to ensure that there is parity there?

A string of cronyism scandals has engulfed this UK Government, from funds prioritising prosperous Tory-held constituencies over other areas with genuine need to multimillion pound covid contracts being handed out to pals by WhatsApp. What safeguards are in the Bill to ensure we do not see that repeated in the funding of this agency? Excluding ARIA from FOI does not fill us with confidence in this regard. There is a big difference between tolerable failure and a lack of scrutiny allowing for further misuse of public funds.

With your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker, as this is the final time I will be making a speech in this place before I take my leave tomorrow, I wish to make some brief remarks not strictly related to the matters before us. As many colleagues will be aware, I am resigning from this House in order to seek election to be the MSP for Airdrie and Shotts in Scotland’s national Parliament.

I want to thank my colleagues and friends in the SNP group and its staff, as well as friends from across this House, for their support, and staff of the House across the estate, who are diligent public servants. My incredible constituency office staff have been with me throughout my time in Parliament: Adam Robinson, Lawrie Kane, Lesley Jarvie, Margaret Hughes and Michael Coyle. They have provided me and the people of Airdrie and Shotts with incredible service, and I thank them. I thank my campaign team, led by my incredible election agent, Graham Russell—we go again!

I also want to thank the people of Airdrie and Shotts. It has been an incredible honour to serve them for the past six years. They first placed their faith in me in 2015, and I hope that I have gone some way to repay that trust, both in this House, with approaching 1,400 oral and written contributions, and also in my campaigns locally. Of everything we have achieved over the past six years, I am most proud of having led the campaign to keep the new Monklands Hospital in the Airdrie area and worked on 14,500 constituency cases for people in every part of the Airdrie and Shotts constituency. Politics is always about people, and my driving ambition, which I am sure I share with others across this House, has always been to do what I can to help people locally as well as tackle injustices, poverty and inequality across these isles.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

I have the unenviable task of following my hon. Friend in his success in the role of SNP work and pensions spokesperson. He has been thanking people for their support. May I, on behalf of those of us who are Airdrie fans, particularly the Airdrie Supporters Trust, genuinely and sincerely thank him for his support of us as a community as well? He will be well aware that there are many people in the Diamonds community who think very highly of him and very much hope to see him elected to continue that good work in the Scottish Parliament.

[Neil Gray]

It is very kind of my hon. Friend to say so.

In my maiden speech, I thanked my wife Karlie and my then 11-month-old daughter Isla for their love and support. I said then that it would not be standing up to Tory Governments or standing up for the people of Airdrie and Shotts that I would find most challenging, but missing my family when I am here—and so it has proved. But now that I have not only Isla, but Finlay, Emmie and Freya to be missing, being closer to home to be a good father, and being in the constituency more, is what motivates me to want to leave this place and seek election to Holyrood to continue my service to local people. If I am successful, I just hope that that service will, soon, be in an independent Scottish Parliament.

Constitutional Law

Neil Gray Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)]

I rise to give my support to this statutory instrument, brought before the House in the name of the Secretary of State for Scotland. It is important because it is about facilitating twin areas of vital national interest: the need for us to continue to support the efficient development of cheap, clean energy generation; and the crying-out-loud need for us to double down on our efforts to stick to hitting our legally binding carbon reduction budgets. Scotland is playing a massive role in giving the UK a lead on clean energy in the G7. That is not just something to take quiet satisfaction from; it is something to shout from the rooftops. In short, that is why I wanted to speak in support of this SI. Yes, it is about a couple of technical amendments, but they point towards a couple of greater things that need to be highlighted.

The first is perhaps a little subtle, but it is significant—it is a political and constitutional point. The SNP in this place and elsewhere—in fact, everywhere that it is given a platform or a microphone—will go on and on about how outrageous everything is and how blatant the UK Government are in their dealings with Scottish interests, saying that they do not listen, they do not co-operate, and so on. My Scottish Conservative and Unionist colleagues in this House and I bear the brunt of this kind of rhetoric through the vile abuse that we receive from fundamentalist nationalists. A Cabinet Secretary in the Scottish Government even called us all traitors—yes, a Cabinet Secretary.

The truth is a very long way away from that kind of bare-faced politicking. It needs to be said and this SI illustrates it well: there is actually a very good working relationship between the SNP Scottish Government and the Conservative and Unionist UK Government. Privately, the Scottish Government’s Ministers get on with getting on with the UK Government. While things can always be improved upon—as Members will know, I have many ideas about how that might be done—the day-to-day business of co-operating and collaborating is going on, largely insulated from the faux rage and grievance manufacturing of the SNP.

I was talking to an SNP Member the other day—someone I quite like and respect—who said something to the effect that we always disagree on everything. I said, “No, we actually agree on a lot of things a lot of the time.” That Member said to me, “Whatever you do, don’t tell my supporters in my constituency that.” That sums up the SNP attitude for me.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

How is the hon. Gentleman getting on with encouraging his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland to ensure that Ministers are rolling back on the cuts to onshore wind subsidies, which is obviously a crucial industry for Scotland and the hon. Gentleman’s constituency?

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[Claire Perry]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will regain his usual sunny nature should we have an Easter break next week. As he will know, what he has asked is not for me to decide. These observations are made to the Secretary of State, and it would be wrong for me to comment.

[Neil Gray]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Sweeney]

rose—

[Claire Perry]

I will give way again briefly, but I sense that the House would like me to wrap up, and I also want to give way to the Leader of the Opposition. [Laughter.] I mean the potential future Leader of the Opposition, the hon. Member for Glasgow North East.

[Neil Gray]

If the Minister was so keen for the correspondence to be released, she could just release it and publish it now. She does not have to wait for an FOI inquiry.

[Claire Perry]

As I have said, it not my decision, and it is not correspondence of which I have been informed.

Community and Sub-Post Offices

Neil Gray Excerpts

Wednesday 27th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands]

Absolutely. I will go into more detail on that subject in my speech and I will press the Minister on the issue.

The important role that the post office plays in our lives is felt more sharply in small towns and rural communities, which are disproportionately dependent on designated community post offices and sub-postmasters. In this debate, I will emphasise the challenges that the latter face due to unfair deals with big banks for providing basic banking services. Despite the growth of online and phone banking, there is still—and, for the foreseeable future, will remain—an undeniable need for easily accessible face-to-face banking, which is of particular importance to the elderly and those with additional support needs. As banks flee the high street, post offices are fulfilling this vital role.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

I commend my hon. Friend for securing this debate and for the way in which he is setting out his case, which is very strong. He mentioned the problem of closures in communities across Scotland. We are very fortunate in my constituency of Airdrie and Shotts, because we have managed to secure a new post office in Plains that has since been very well supported. Does he agree that that support should send a strong message to the Government to open new post offices, not to close them?

[Gavin Newlands]

I do not need to add to my hon. Friend’s contribution; the Minister has heard him.

Oral Answers to Questions

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

With much pleasure. We published figures last week showing that we continue to reduce our emissions, which are down 3% year on year. I say again that we are decarbonising faster than any other country in the G20. We are doing our bit domestically as well as internationally with our £6 billion of climate spending, and we have formally put our name forward to host the crucial climate change talks in 2020, although we must remember that other countries are still interested.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

T8.   Healthcare Environmental, based in Shotts, collapsed before Christmas, leaving 150 of my constituents and 450 across the UK redundant. We have managed to sort out redundancy payments for some of those eligible, but they have all lost out on their December pay. Can the Government do anything in a timeous fashion to help the workers get the wages they are due?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I recognise the distress felt by constituents in cases of insolvency and where companies cease to trade. The redundancy payment service, operated by the Insolvency Service, has already made statutory redundancy payments to 157 eligible employees. Payments in respect of unpaid wages cannot be made while the company is still not in formal insolvency procedures, but we remain ready to act.

Oral Answers to Questions

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

If the hon. Lady was at the CBI conference yesterday, and if she has read the responses from businesses small and large up and down the country, she will know that they are very clear that this deal will help to create the confidence that will allow investment to be made and jobs to be created and preserved across the country.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

The small businesses and manufacturers in my constituency are telling me that their biggest challenge right now is recruiting skilled labour. That challenge is set to get worse for them as we approach Brexit. Will the Secretary of State explain to them how stopping freedom of movement is going to help them with access to skilled labour for their manufacturing and their research and development?

[Greg Clark]

One of the reasons why companies up and down the country sometimes find it a struggle to recruit people is that we have such a low level of unemployment in this country. I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman would recognise that. He knows that one of the benefits of leaving the European Union is that our migration policy will be set in this country according to the needs of our economy—so it’s over to us.

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[Mr Gyimah]

I congratulate Paignton on that new hotel. Through the industrial strategy, we are investing in digital connectivity and transport, which should make areas such as Torbay even more attractive than at present.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

T6. Given that the regulation of fireworks is reserved to this place and that there appears to be a spike in the use of fireworks as part of antisocial behaviour and violence, including of late in Plains, Shotts and Airdrie in my constituency, what cognisance will the UK Government take of the Scottish Government’s consultation on regulating fireworks so as better to inform how best to regulate the sale and use of fireworks?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, which is timely just after fireworks night. The Government do not have any plans to change the legislation, but I am always willing to look at new evidence and to discuss the issue with hon. Members.

Oral Answers to Questions

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 16th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

Blimey! Let me just clarify some of the hon. Gentleman’s misinformation. The reason those budgets are out of scope is that we already have a set of policies and procedures that will deliver 97% and 95% of the decarbonisation—[Interruption.] If he listens for a second and stops mansplaining, he might learn something. I live in hope; which saint said that?

The point is that the Committee on Climate Change told us last time we discussed the challenge of zero carbon that it was not technically feasible now. It would be pointless to ask for its advice again when we already have some of the most ambitious carbon reduction plans in the world up to 2032, set in statute. We need to know what to do from 2032 onwards, so that we can start planning for it now. Just once, it would be lovely to have some cross-party consensus on the challenging, vital issue of the destruction that climate change will cause. I live in hope.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

6. What recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the level of UK Government financial support available to businesses in Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Greg Clark)]

The Chancellor and I work closely together to support businesses across the United Kingdom. I also work with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work in the Scottish Government to ensure that we can create the right environment for innovative businesses throughout Scotland to thrive. Indeed, I will be meeting him again later this afternoon.

[Neil Gray]

I hope the Secretary of State has heard that the Scottish Government have provided £18 million as part of a £65 million package of investment for its National Manufacturing Institute, which will be good news for manufacturers in Airdrie and Shotts, so will he change his industrial strategy to match that funding?

[Greg Clark]

The industrial strategy is something on which we have good collaboration with the Scottish Government. It is right that we should work together for the long term. If we want to make sure that Scottish businesses can thrive, there needs to be a competitive environment. One thing that I know is very much on the minds of Scottish businesses is that Scotland is the highest taxed part of the United Kingdom, which is a substantial drain on confidence. I hope the hon. Gentleman will take that back to his colleagues and discuss it with them.

Unpaid Trial Work Periods (Prohibition) Bill

Neil Gray Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 16th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

The hon. Gentleman anticipates where my speech is about to go, but to come back to the point made by the hon. Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin), in the hospitality and retail sectors, where this practice is known to be widespread—it is by no means exclusive to those sectors, but it does happen in them rather a lot—there is a difference between a person applying for a job to be, for example, a barista in a coffee shop or a cocktail maker in a hotel bar, and their demonstrating that they can do the things that they have said they can do, which is fine, and a trial shift in which the applicant is asked to work alongside someone on a paid shift, doing the same job as them, but is not paid.

The Government think that the existing law is sufficient to deal with and prevent that kind of thing from happening but, as the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) said, all too often a company advertises an unpaid trial shift, and in some cases it might be two or three hours, but in some of the more extreme cases, including the case that first brought this issue to my attention, it is 40 hours. Yesterday, the BBC interviewed someone who had done four weeks of unpaid trial work. Here is the deeply cynical element: in a lot of cases, there is not actually a job to give the person—it is about covering sickness, staff shortages, busy periods over Christmas or wedding seasons in hotels. That is where the law is insufficient to prevent gross exploitation.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

I hugely commend my hon. Friend for introducing this Bill and for the strong and erudite way he is presenting it. Is not the greatest tragedy of trial shifts that most often the people who are exploited have learning disabilities? They are desperate for work and see these shifts as their only opportunity. That is a key reason why the Bill must be passed.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Too often that is what happens. The people who fall victim either do not know their rights and cannot stand up for them, or are unwilling to challenge employers on their rights because they are in fear of losing their job. This practice hits the lowest paid and the lowest skilled in our economy, and this is a Bill to protect the lowest paid and the lowest skilled in our economy.

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[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who has been a great supporter of the Bill from the outset and has had good input into it too. He is right—it is a deeply horrifying and cynical practice. Imagine if that was your first introduction to the world of work: how would it make you feel about trying to secure work for yourself in future? I think we are all united in believing that it is a good thing when people want to go out there and secure work of some kind.

[Neil Gray]

rose—

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

The MP of the constituent in the case I have mentioned wishes to intervene.

[Neil Gray]

The worst part of that story was that my constituent was rota-ed to be in that work the following week, which gave him the impression that he had in fact secured the job. He was told, on the last day possible, that he had not applied enough effort, which was clearly patently wrong. That type of behaviour is utterly shameful and must be called out.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

I did not know that additional detail. It is shameful and it is right to call it out. It is the last time that I will be setting foot in B&M Bargains, which is a great shame because I pass it on the way to my constituency office every day. Let me say that I mean no malice to the workers of that company but instead the bosses who allow that kind of practice to go on.

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[Chris Philp]

It is indeed fraud as my hon. Friend says, and I entirely agree with his interjection. I look forward to the Minister offering his thoughts on that in due course. [Interruption.] Excuse me Madam Deputy Speaker. I am recovering from the remains of a cold that my children kindly gave me last week. [Interruption.] Does the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) wish to intervene?

[Neil Gray]

She was suggesting you could sit down.

[Chris Philp]

That is a very kind suggestion, but I am afraid I have not yet finished. This is an important matter, and we will give it due consideration—[Interruption.] That has made my cough even worse.

As I understand, under current drafting, any period of trial working, even as little as five minutes, would fall foul of the Bill. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Glasgow South is nodding his head in assent. As with any piece of regulation, there is a balance to be struck. I completely agree that all the examples we have heard about are totally unreasonable. Such behaviour should be unlawful, and those companies should be prosecuted and fined. However, there are examples—I am coming to the conclusion of my remarks—of companies that, quite legitimately, want someone to do a reasonable amount of trial work, by which one might mean a few hours. I would consider three or four hours to be the maximum amount of time considered reasonable, and it could be unfair to impose on those businesses the administration involved in setting up payroll, PAYE, national insurance, a return to HMRC and so on, for a short and reasonable period of trial work.

[Chris Philp]

As we have discussed previously, that would be wholly unreasonable for an entire eight-hour shift. However, a trial for an hour, testing someone serving coffee in a live work environment, for example, gives the potential employer information about that person’s suitability. In the coffee shop example, I would consider it reasonable to have someone work for one hour as a trial and not require payment. Working an eight-hour shift would and should require full payment. My concern is that the one-hour trial would get caught by the Bill as drafted.

[Neil Gray]

I am pretty sure that Members who are employers will have it written into their contracts that all staff start with a probationary period. Is that not a more appropriate way to handle this matter?

[Chris Philp]

I am not sure that it is. If someone is taken on as an employee for a probationary period, the reasonable expectation is for them to work with the company for a few months—a probationary period is typically at least one month, and in some cases three. Asking an employer to employ for between one and three months someone who, it transpires after a few hours, is unsuitable is a little unfair on the employer.

Sector Deal for Steel

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 19th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to speak on behalf of the Scottish National party in this debate. It is also a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Henry, and to follow the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey), who made a very good speech.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) on securing the debate via the Backbench Business Committee and on his speech. He has been determined for quite some time to see a sector deal for steel; his advocacy on behalf of the steel industry is to be noted and congratulated, and he continued that campaign with his usual fervour today. I hope that his efforts have brought the issue back to the attention of the media, and that we will get some answers from the Minister about what the Government will do for the industry.

The hon. Gentleman asked the Government to address matters such as steel dumping by Chinese, Russian and Turkish producers. He also spoke about procurement opportunities. However, I must correct one aspect of his speech, because what he said about the new Forth crossing, the Queensferry crossing, was not quite right. Of the £540 million of orders, 45% came from Scottish companies, and steel from the Dalzell plant is in the girders at either end of the bridge. Sadly, no bidder came forward from Scotland for the main contract, because the capacity to produce the required level of steel has been lost since Thatcher closed the Ravenscraig plant. Of course, we want to do more; we want that capacity to increase, which is why we are all here today. The hon. Gentleman also discussed energy issues, which I will address later in my speech.

The hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Mr Clarke) made a very good speech. He was absolutely right to say that with the right opportunities and support, we can increase the GVA of the steel industry from £1.2 billion to £3 billion. We need to get this right. He also said, rightly, that the steel industry is an enabler for other sectors to grow. His speech was constructive but probing, and I hope the Minister was listening.

The hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) mentioned the importance of steel to other industries and Liberty’s exciting low-carbon proposals on green steel, which should reduce the need for imports and cut the industry’s carbon footprint. The hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) was absolutely right to pay tribute to Tom Blenkinsop, the former Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland. In all the debates I have attended, the hon. Member for Scunthorpe has been a stout defender of the industry, and he was very good again today. He was also right to pay tribute to the workforce, who have been incredibly resilient, particularly in recent years.

The hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) rightly raised the potential Brexit challenges that the sector faces. We are particularly concerned about the impact on the industry of leaving the single market. It is essential that we see UK Government action now. As I said, the hon. Member for West Bromwich West made a very good speech; he focused on the needs of the foundries in his area and highlighted the supply chain that the steel industry feeds, including the £72 billion motor industry.

As the Minister will be aware, Liberty Steel operates at the Dalzell works in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), which adjoins mine, and many of my constituents are employed there. It would be remiss of me not to pay tribute to the efforts of the Scottish Government, the trade unions and the Scottish steel taskforce, which secured the future of the Dalzell and Clydebridge plants, the former Tata sites in Scotland. The SNP is clear that we would welcome a sector deal for the steel industry: we encourage the UK Government to get it done and we note with concern its absence from the industrial strategy. I have been in contact with Liberty’s management about developments and about the priorities that they and others have for future intervention and support from the UK Government.

Let me be clear. The steel industry is not some “nice to have” aspect of the manufacturing sector. It is crucial to all aspects of infrastructure projects in these isles: it supports huge numbers of jobs and feeds a supply chain that contributes even more to employment and economic prosperity. Further support for the sector could open significantly more opportunities for employment and growth, as the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland said.

What support could this Government offer? It has been well trailed by all hon. Members in this debate that help with energy prices would address the clear disparity with competitors in other countries, including France and Germany—a disparity that is estimated to cost UK steel producers an additional £43 million a year. The UK Government could look at helping to attract additional investment to the UK in a number of ways, such as by providing access to commercially competitive loans, a capital investment grant or innovative tax breaks or discounts linked to investment. They could also consider the proposal to establish a new innovation fund to boost research and development of steel products.

The executive chair of Liberty House, Sanjeev Gupta, said that he was “very impressed” with the efforts of the Scottish Government and the Scottish steel taskforce to save and support the industry in Scotland. It is now time for the UK Government to match the ambitions of the Government up the road and get on with the sector deal, delivering tangible support on energy, procurement and all the other asks from industry and from hon. Members across the House today. Let us hope that we will hear of such action from the Minister today.

Taylor Review: Working Practices

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman raises a number of issues. There is no intention to downgrade anybody’s rights. We want to be in a position to safeguard people’s rights and, when possible, improve them—we certainly do not want to downgrade them. I am sure that he will put his detailed observations into our consultation.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

This Government continue to justify the existence of zero-hours contracts on the basis of flexibility, but the problems could largely be addressed if flexible working could be properly expanded and given a framework so that we knew exactly what it meant. Will the Government use this opportunity to properly expand flexible working and explain what it actually means?

[Margot James]

I cannot accept the premise behind the hon. Gentleman’s question. We are not seeking to end zero-hours contracts, because too many people want them and the flexibility associated with them, but we are seeking to root out abuse where it exists.

DRAFT National Minimum Wage (Amendment) REGULATIONS 2017

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2017 General Committees

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alan, and it is a genuine pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington, who made a very good speech setting out our shared views.

We must be clear that the UK Government’s so-called national living wage is not the real living wage and it should not be referred to as such. It is not national, because disgracefully it does not cover under-25s, and it is not a living wage, because it falls well short of the real living wage, which is independently set by the Living Wage Foundation and based on living standards, the history of which was set out so well by the hon. Gentleman. The current real living wage is £8.45 an hour outside London and £9.75 an hour in London. The minimum wage premium rate under discussion is £7.50 an hour, which is a welcome rise from £7.20, but it is almost £1 an hour short of the rate outside London and more than £2 short of that in London.

I also note the proposed percentage pay rise for the different age brackets. The rate for over-25s will go up by 4.2% annually, which is welcome, but why is there not a fair rise across the board, to match that for over-25s? The apprentice rate will go up by 4.5% annually, which is fine, but that is the only special age-related rate that matches the rise for over-25s.

[Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (SNP)]

As hon. Members may know, I am under 25. Does my hon. Friend agree that it would be ridiculous to suggest that I should be paid less than anyone else in this room, purely on the basis of when I was born?

[Neil Gray]

Absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention, which highlights perfectly the flaws in the Government’s argument—we will probably hear it shortly—that, somehow, someone who is under 25 does not have the experience or expertise to carry out their job. She personifies the argument that someone who is under 25 can be more than capable of doing their job just as well as, and possibly better than, someone who is over 25. She has made my point perfectly.

Turning to 18 to 20-year-olds, they will get a 0.9% rise of 5p an hour, which is an annual increase of 3.1%, while that for 16 to 17-year-olds will be just 2.8% annually. Given that they are already receiving significantly less, often for doing the exact same work, how can the Government justify a proportionately lower increase in their minimum rates? I refer again to my hon. Friend’s intervention.

This is important. In response to last week’s Budget, Katherine Chapman of the Living Wage Foundation said:

“Low-paid workers will be the worst hit by the rise in inflation set out in today’s budget forecasts.”

Rowena Mason from The Guardian has suggested that the rise in the minimum wage is not enough even to hit the Government’s trajectory to reach £9 an hour by 2020. We also need to consider these rises in the context of what Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies said last week:

“On current forecasts average earnings will be no higher in 2022 than they were in 2007…This is completely unprecedented”.

The Resolution Foundation has said that the period from 2011 to 2020 will have the worst record for pay growth in 210 years.

Although everyone accepts that employment is the best route out of poverty, it is no longer enough. We are seeing sharp rises in in-work poverty as the perfect storm of poor wage growth, social security cuts and rising inflation squeezes family budgets. For our part, Scotland remains the best performing of the four nations in the UK with the highest proportion of employees getting paid the real living wage—79.9%. That is because the Scottish Government have embraced the real leaving wage and championed it. We now have about 750 Scottish-based accredited living wage employers and we are pushing hard for more to sign up. We have championed the real living wage campaign while this Government try to undermine it by labelling their minimum wage premium in such a cynical way.

Requiring employers to pay their staff the living wage is a key part of Scottish public sector pay policy and since 2013-14 we have invested more than £1.5 million a year in the living wage rate across the public sector where the Scottish Government controls the pay bill, benefiting about 3,000 workers each year. I urge the Minister to look at the example being set by the Government up the road and to go further than what is being proposed today.

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[Stella Creasy]

I rise to ask a simple question of the Minister that seems to be at the heart of this statutory instrument. What difference does £2 make? That is the difference between what is being proposed and what a living wage actually is. I want to tell the Minister why that £2 makes all the difference to the communities we represent.

We are now living in a country where real wages are still, on average, below what they were a decade ago. It is not only a problem in the metropolitan, gold-plated streets of London, where 60% of our children are living in households that are in poverty. Across our country, whether in Portsmouth, Aldershot, Aberavon, Pontypridd or Bristol, there are families for whom £2 an hour would make all the difference to their problems.

We face a very simple challenge as a country: wages have not kept up with prices. There is too much month left at the end of people’s money. For the families on low wages that the statutory instrument will affect, this kind of change makes all the difference, because it does not include that extra two quid. Young people are cruelly discriminated against by our legislation. I wholeheartedly concur with the hon. Member from Scotland, whose constituency evades me; I am sure it is a wonderful place.

[Neil Gray]

Airdrie and Shotts.

[Stella Creasy]

Exactly. It is completely inconceivable that age rather than proficiency should define someone’s employability.

There is an issue for us here about whether the statutory instrument will help Britain. We have to acknowledge a word that seems to be missing from the Government’s vocabulary but will in fact define these issues: Brexit. Our economic position is so uncertain. The chances are that inflation will continue to rise; that is clear to the Opposition. The question of what difference £2 makes will be all the more important in the years ahead that the legislation provides for.

In 4 million households in this country people are in work but in poverty. The point behind the living wage campaign, which I am so proud to have been a small part of in my part of town in east London, where all the best things come from—I will fight you all for that—is that it is not simply about living to work or working to live, but living a life worth living. That is why having a living wage makes a difference. This is about the cost of living. Just as inflation has risen and wages have not—for the first time wages have not kept up with growth in our country—so the costs of living are extraordinary.

I have the dubious distinction of representing the part of the country with the most estate agents per square mile. My part of town has had the highest rise in house prices of any part of the country. The Minister looks shocked, but Kirstie and Phil are the harbingers of doom for many people in my community because the cost of living, which their wages have to cover, is going up and up. That is why having a real living wage matters. Not having one means that we as a society have to deal with the consequences in a number of ways. We have to try to help people cover the cost of living, keep a roof over their head, feed their kids, put money in their electricity meter and take their kids to school. We also have to deal with the consequences of debt that we are now seeing in our country.

I look at these proposals in the context of the impact: 24% of people in this country now have mental health issues because of their personal finances and 41% of families are worried about their debt and whether their wages are going to cover such costs. One in six of those people is worried because they have borrowed money from a family friend or member. There are real human consequences to not having a real, genuine living wage: families are torn apart.