Welfare Reform and Work Bill (Seventh sitting)

Neil Coyle Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Damian Hinds]

I fell into the temptation of the wider debate, but I will now get away from it. However, the existence of the structural deficit and the continuing problems that we find ourselves in post 2007-08 are why we need to get our public finances back into order.

Nobody would deny the existence of automatic stabilisers, as the hon. Lady mentioned, but we need a welfare system, a benefits system and general public finances that are sustainable and fair to all people—those who pay in and those who are beneficiaries. Despite reforms in the previous Parliament reducing the number of families eligible for tax credits to six out of 10, the current level of spending on tax credits is unsustainable.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Damian Hinds]

I think I ought to make some progress. [Interruption.] Oh, go on then.

[Neil Coyle]

I am glad that my disappointed face worked on this occasion.

Although the suggestion that the change is about balancing the books is fine on one level, the Minister has had specific requests for information about families who will not feel that they are personally responsible for the national economic position. We heard from the hon. Member for Livingston about incidents of rape, and we have heard a discussion about the equality impact assessment. I would like the Minister to address the concerns of people of faith who do not believe in contraception. Will they be subject to the cap?

We know that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is a big fan of China, but even in China, with its single child policy, there is flexibility within the system to allow people from minority ethnic communities to have more than one child, to allow people from farming and rural communities to have more than one child—

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[Damian Hinds]

It is not at all uncommon for a Government to say that particular aspects of the implementation of a policy are delicate and sensitive and require careful thought with external stakeholders who are experts in the field. That is what will happen in this case. I do not feel the need to defend that. It is the right thing to do because there are people who have expertise, and it is absolutely right that they should have the opportunity to be consulted.

[Neil Coyle]

Will the Minister give way?

[Damian Hinds]

I will not, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

The Government will continue to support larger families through child benefit, which is paid for all qualifying children in a household. There are 15 hours of childcare available to the 40% least advantaged families. Families will continue to receive 15 hours a week of free childcare for all three and four-year-olds, and the Government have announced that from September 2017 that will be extended to 30 hours for parents who are in work. I therefore urge the hon. Member for Livingston to withdraw the amendment.

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[Neil Coyle]

Will the Minister give way?

[Damian Hinds]

I do not want to pre-empt the more interesting discussion we may have later, but on the grounds that the intervention is relevant, as always, I give way.

[Neil Coyle]

As universal credit is rolled out, will the Minister provide families with a time machine so that they can go back and not have children?

[Damian Hinds]

I fear that that is another invitation to err from the path of the rightful debate.

On new clause 5, the intention seems to be to amend section 130A of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 to prevent the Secretary of State from making changes to housing benefit that would restrict the number of children who can be included in the housing benefit assessment. Housing benefit and the housing element in universal credit take into account the number of children for whom the claimant is responsible. There is no maximum number attached to that, and the Bill does not introduce one.

The only related changes to housing benefit, which will follow in regulations, are to ensure that a claimant’s housing benefit award is no higher than it would have been if the tax credit changes were not introduced. Obviously, without those changes, the tax credit change would have the unintended effect of awarding claimants with more than two children a higher amount of housing benefit, which would reduce the savings from the tax credit change.

Let me be absolutely clear, because the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury raised some very reasonable questions, which we need to address directly. As she knows, housing benefit is made up of a number of elements. That includes taking into account the number of children in calculating the family’s income. The family premium she mentioned is part of that calculation. The changes will affect the calculation of family income, but not the number of rooms allocated, which is a separate issue.

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[Damian Hinds]

In future, a different system will be in operation. It limits the cash support through the tax credit system to two children. It will continue to include child benefit, and it will also include enhanced child care. For example, we will be moving to 30 hours of free childcare for all three and four-year-olds and there will be further improvements in universal credit.

[Neil Coyle]

Will the Minister give way?

[Damian Hinds]

I think the hon. Lady’s point was about her child. I do not think she meant it as a direct question. [Interruption.] I am trying to explain that there will be a limit to the amount of financial support coming through the tax credit system according to the number of children, but there will be other elements still in place, and enhanced elements in relation to childcare. There will also be a further increase in the income tax personal allowance and a major structural reform in the labour market so that the tax credit system does not top up low wages. People will be paid properly for the job that they do via the national living wage, and we estimate that 65% of people who benefit from the national living wage will be women.

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[Debbie Abrahams]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. This is the first opportunity I have had to speak as the shadow Minister for Disabled People, so if you will allow me, I would like to start by paying tribute to my predecessor and friend, the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green). She did a fantastic job, not just in this Bill Committee but in the past in this role and her mantle is going to be hard to take up.

I want to add my voice to what my hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury has said. The tax credit provisions in the Bill are pernicious, and these elements are particularly callous and unjust. We are seeking to try to exempt families with disabled children from their impact.

Those who have spoken to parents and carers with disabled children will know that there are additional costs associated with raising disabled children. Contact A Family’s “Counting the Costs” report found that families with disabled children are more likely to be living in poverty than other families and that it costs three times as much to raise a disabled child. Families with disabled children face considerable additional expenditure on heating, housing, clothing, equipment and other items compared with other families. My youngest daughter was diagnosed with asthma when she was very little. One of the triggers for her was the cold and we had to have our heating on all day and all night when she was little to try and avoid what often happened, which was that she stopped breathing. I have that personal experience and, fortunately, we were able to cope with the financial costs of additional heating, but that is not the case for many families.

Research over many years demonstrates a strong relationship between low income, social exclusion and disability among families who have a disabled child. As the “Every Disabled Child Matters” campaign has said, childhood disability is frequently a trigger event for poverty, as a result of additional costs, family break-up and unemployment following the birth or diagnosis of a disabled child. As I said, disabled children are also at a high risk of poverty as a result of low household incomes. Many parents of disabled children are unable to work because of care responsibilities and the lack of, or the cost of, appropriate childcare. I would be interested in the Minister’s response to the issue of providing appropriate childcare for disabled people because, within the proposed provisions, the Government have not been particularly explicit about how that relates to disabled children.

[Neil Coyle]

I welcome my hon. Friend to her new role. The Minister has already mentioned a commitment to providing 30 hours of childcare, but at no point have the Government provided any information on how it will be assessed and whether parents can genuinely access that level of childcare, in particular the parents of disabled children. Would my hon. Friend welcome the Government clarifying whether childcare is genuinely accessible, particularly for parents of disabled children?

[Debbie Abrahams]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point and I would be grateful if the Minister could address it in his response.

Barriers to work are created by the stress of caring, often with no support. I am thinking again in the context of the £3.6 billion of cuts in social care, which also affect disabled people. When people do not have that support enabling them to work, it can build difficulties into family relationship. It is not clear in the impact assessment whether an assessment has been done on the likely increase in poverty of families with disabled children.

For example, what is the increase in NHS admissions predicted to be? I have mentioned my daughter who has asthma. The implication is that there will be other families in similar circumstances. Is there any prediction of an increase in family breakdown? We cannot be in a situation where, potentially, the Government are arguing that the measure will balance the books when it is really about cost-shunting from one Department to another. What assessment has been done on that?

We do not believe that disabled people, their families and their carers should be subject to further cuts and therefore seek to exempt households with one or more disabled children from the provisions on both child tax credit and universal credit. The Government and the social security system rightly recognise the additional costs of raising disabled children but the provisions in clauses 11 and 12 seem to be at odds with that. I oppose them absolutely and in their entirety. At the very least, the effect of the provisions should be mitigated for households with a disabled child and I urge all members of the Committee to do the right thing and support the amendments.

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[Damian Hinds]

I welcome the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth to her place in the Committee and, more broadly, to the Opposition Front Bench. She has a hard act to follow in the shape of the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston, but I know that she will execute her work absolutely admirably in this Committee and beyond. She and the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury have spoken powerfully about the challenges faced by the parents of disabled children. I echo them in acknowledging the invaluable work that such parents and families do in difficult circumstances.

The Government are protecting benefits related to the additional costs of disability and care by exempting them from the freeze and from the cap that we discussed on another day. Those benefits include personal independence payments, disability living allowance and the support group component of employment and support allowance. Additionally, we will continue to increase those benefits by inflation. The Government are committed to supporting disabled children. We have reformed the special needs system to support children continuously from birth to the age of 25 and increased our spend on the main disability benefits by more than £2 billion over the course of the last Parliament. Overall, of course, we continue to spend about £50 billion on disability benefits and services each year.

My understanding is that amendments 83 and 84 would have the effect of removing households with one or more children with a disability from the two-child support limit policy in child tax credit and universal credit respectively. Thus, a family with five children, one of whom is disabled, would continue to receive child tax credit or universal credit in respect of all five children, as well as the appropriate disabled child element in child tax credit and the additional amount in universal credit. The Government think it right that, just as families who support themselves solely through work must weigh up financial considerations when deciding to have more children, families in receipt of benefits should face the same sorts of financial consideration. That should apply to all families.

In recognition of the costs of supporting disabled children, we will create a separate disability element of child tax credit that will be payable for all disabled children, regardless of whether they are the third or subsequent children or otherwise. We will continue to pay the relevant additional amount for disabled children in universal credit, regardless of whether those children are the third or subsequent children or otherwise.

The hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark rightly raised the subject of childcare. He will know that, in the tax-free childcare system that we are introducing, there is, quite rightly, a special addition to recognise the additional costs of childcare that pertain for children with a disability. In the overall offer of 15 hours and 30 hours of childcare there is, as he will know, rightly a statutory duty on local authorities to ensure proper provision for children with disabilities in the nurseries that their families trust.

[Neil Coyle]

The Minister mentioned universal credit. It sounds like that might be welcome. Will he update us on the roll-out of universal credit and identify where the overlap with the measure will not exist? There is a statutory responsibility on local authorities, but how will the Government ensure that families with disabled children who cannot access appropriate, accessible childcare are not penalised?

[Damian Hinds]

I do not dispute for a moment what the hon. Gentleman says. I agree with him entirely that we—the Government and Members of Parliament—must be vigilant in ensuring that families, including those with disabled children, have access to good childcare. It is a duty on local authorities but vigilance is always required to ensure that such measures are delivered. The hon. Gentleman asked about the roll-out of universal credit. I am not quite sure of the specific context in relation to the measures—I will just say that it is on track. It will be in every jobcentre by April 2016, with the bulk of migration complete by 2019.

New clause 16 seeks to specify exemptions to our proposals, including a new role for the Social Security Advisory Committee, and to establish an appeals process. The Government have already given a clear commitment that multiple births, for example twins or triplets, will be treated as a single birth with a child element for each sibling where there were previously fewer than two children in the household. We have also set out that there will be protections—we discussed this earlier—for women who have a third child as the result of rape. We will set out exemptions in regulations after discussions with stakeholders and careful consideration. Using regulations to set out exemptions provides the Government with greater flexibility to adjust exemptions in the future without needing to secure primary legislation. That is more appropriate because we may wish to act relatively quickly in the light of operational experience.

The Social Security Advisory Committee, as its name suggests, is a valuable body for advising the Government on our secondary legislation. It does not, however, have the remit to design legislation. That is the proper job of the Government and we consult with the committee as appropriate. Amendments 83 and 84 relate to the proposed exemption of households where any child or qualifying young person is disabled. I have responded on that issue.

Finally, the new clause requires the Secretary of State to set up an appeals structure. Social security and tax credits already have comprehensive appeals arrangements that will apply to any decisions made under the provisions in the Bill or exceptions set out in regulations. The provision is therefore not required. For the reasons I have set out, the new clause is not appropriate for inclusion in the Bill. We have recognised that there will be a need for some exemptions, for example in relation to multiple births, but those are much better dealt with in a considered way in collaboration with stakeholders through secondary legislation. I urge the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury to withdraw the amendment.