Michael Gove
Main Page: Michael Gove (Conservative - Surrey Heath)Department Debates - View all Michael Gove's debates with the Department for Education
(12 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
6. What assessment he has made of the current standard of religious education teaching.
The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)
Ofsted’s subject report in 2010 found that religious education teaching was not good enough, but teacher quality is improving. In 2012-13, 78% of religious education teacher trainees held a 2:1 or higher degree classification, compared with just 70% in 2011-12.
Paul Goggins
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. If he believes that the best way to achieve academic rigour is through the English baccalaureate, is he willing to reconsider the inclusion of religious education as a core subject, at least for faith schools, in order that they can uphold their ethos and parental choice, as well as their high educational standards?
Michael Gove
I have enormous respect for the right hon. Gentleman. He is a stout advocate for faith schools and I want to underline the important role that they play in state education. We have no plans to change the English baccalaureate, not least because religious education remains a compulsory subject in the national curriculum. Well taught, it can take its place alongside the subjects in the English baccalaureate in a broad and balanced education.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
My right hon. Friend will know that I value faith schools and the teaching of religious education. However, what steps is he taking to ensure that religious hatred is not taught by some faith schools and religious teachers?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend has a distinguished record in fighting extremism of all kinds. That is why I am delighted to be able to say that we have set up a due diligence unit in the Department for Education to prevent extremism. It has staff from the security services and elsewhere, and will ensure that public money is not abused by those who would preach hate rather than love.
Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)
To follow on from the answers to the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) and the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt) about the need for specialist teaching, the number of institutions training religious education teachers has declined. Will the Department keep a constant review on the number of teachers entering the profession in subjects that are outside the EBacc to ensure that there is adequate expertise across the specialisms?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is quite right to hold my feet to the fire on that. The headcount for religious education teachers at key stage 4 has increased over the lifetime of the Government from 10,400 to 10,700 and there are two applicants for every available post for a religious education teacher, so there is no evidence of a decline in numbers or quality.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
7. How he plans to deliver more rigorous vocational education in schools.
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
10. What plans he has for the safeguarding of children; and if he will make a statement.
The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)
The child protection system is not working. That is why we are undertaking reform. We are reforming the social work profession and removing the bureaucracy which holds gifted professionals back, and demanding greater transparency and efficiency from local authorities.
Yvonne Fovargue
A recent all-party group inquiry highlighted the vulnerability of children who go missing from care, and the risks of physical and sexual exploitation. Does the Secretary of State therefore agree that local authorities and police forces should offer training to front-line and managerial staff working with children to raise awareness of the risks associated with running away and of the vulnerability of all children, including older children?
Michael Gove
The hon. Lady raises an important point. My former colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), responded to that report and made a compelling argument for ensuring better data sharing between local authorities and the police on the location of children within children’s homes to ensure that we can provide yet better protection for them. However, that is only one part of a mosaic of policies we need in order to give those children and young people a better chance.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
Given the Secretary of State’s opening remarks, could he start with Northamptonshire county council? Two foster parents came to see me. Two very difficult children were placed with them—they are the same ethnic background. They have bonded very well with the children and are now one family, but—would you believe it?—the county council is trying to break the family up to save money. Will the Secretary of State intervene in this matter?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for bringing this case to my attention—I shall look at it more closely. It is vital that all recognise that those who agree to foster children are responsible for bringing love and stability to some of the most damaged children and young people in our society. We should do everything possible to support them.
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
The Children’s Commissioner’s recent interim report was reportedly dismissed by senior Government Ministers as “hysterical” and “half-baked”. According to news reports, Government sources said:
“It is difficult to overstate the contempt the Government has for the methodology and analysis”.
Does the Secretary of State want to take this opportunity to reject those comments; to join me, the NSPCC and Barnardo’s in welcoming that important report on child sexual exploitation; and to tell hon. Members what concrete steps he plans to take immediately to ensure that the 16,500 young people identified in the report as at immediate and high risk of exploitation are protected before harm comes to them?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady, and to the deputy Children’s Commissioner for her work. I asked her explicitly to accelerate part of her report to inform our work on improving child protection. The hon. Lady says that 16,500 are at risk. The methodology used to identify them is not shared by every professional in the field, but we can put that statistic to one side. The urgency with which we need to tackle the problem is undoubted, and I commend to her the action plan that I outlined in a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research I made just a few days before the report was published.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
11. What assessment he has made of the likely contribution to the UK’s international achievements of studying creative subjects in school; and if he will make a statement.
The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)
The arts are mankind’s greatest achievement. Every child should be able to enjoy and appreciate great literature, music, drama and visual art.
Fiona Mactaggart
But is the Secretary of State aware that Britain’s record in Nobel prizes—we have won 19 prizes for every 10 million of our population, whereas the USA has won 11 prizes per 10 million, and the EU has won 9 per 10 million—is achieved partly as a result of the combination of excellent science education and a strong creative tradition throughout our education system? At the same time, the Secretary of State’s EBacc proposals will result, according to research he has commissioned from Ipsos MORI, in something like a quarter of our schools dropping subjects such as art and design, design technology, music and so on. Will that mean that our international achievements, including in Nobel prizes, will slide down?
Michael Gove
If I thought the EBacc proposals would lead to that, I would not be able to sleep at night, knowing that the ghosts of Rutherford and Churchill were hanging over my bed and chiding me for my failures. I had the opportunity to speak to representatives of a variety of arts organisations today. They applauded the work we have done, not least the report that Darren Henley authored on cultural education. Many of the initiatives that we have launched since that time are initiatives that the previous Government were capable of neither initiating nor funding.
Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con)
One key factor when considering the subjects to be studied at secondary schools must be how well they prepare young people for further training or study at college or university. Professor Ebdon from the Office for Fair Access has said that it is “dreadful snobbery” to put pressure on schools to achieve places for their students at the best universities. As a former schools Minister, I share the uncertainty of another former schools Minister, Lord Adonis, about whether Professor Ebdon is the right person to lead an organisation committed to encouraging wider access to higher education. Does my right hon. Friend share that uncertainty?
Michael Gove
When my hon. Friend and Lord Adonis agree, it is a brave and usually wrong man who disagrees.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The creative industries are critical to jobs and growth, and some estimates are that as many as half of all new jobs will be created in those industries in the coming years. Will the Secretary of State take on board the massive concerns put forward by the CBI among others about how the EBacc is pushing academic study at the expense of vocational, not least creative, subjects?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend the Minister for Schools pointed out earlier that there has been a misreading of the CBI’s argument by those on the Opposition Benches. The CBI is not always right—it was not right about appeasement and it was not right about the euro. Historically, it has not been right about many things. However, on this occasion the CBI is applauding our policies. I do not know whether I should be delighted or worried, but I take comfort where I can that there are many people who are committed to improving our state education system who think our reform programme is right.
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
Learning to let creativity flourish will be enormously beneficial for the next generation and needs to be embraced right across the curriculum. The Secretary of State has been offered input by heads from the leading edge programme of the best-performing schools, among them Martin Williams from the Corsham school, to help to ensure that teaching is engaging and innovative for pupils learning in key stage 4. How will he respond to that offer from these outstanding schools?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I will respond with enthusiasm. I want to make sure that the very best, which succeed not just in the quality of academic and technical education, but in instilling a love of creative education in young people, have an opportunity to help schools that may not have those strengths. I have never visited a school that is strong academically that is not also strong creatively. The more we can learn from great schools, the better for all our children.
David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)
12. What plans he has to review the allocation formula for education funding.
Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
15. What plans he has for the secondary curriculum; and if he will make a statement.
The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)
We announced draft proposals for the new primary curriculum earlier this year and we will bring forward proposals for the secondary curriculum in due course.
Nic Dakin
When I visited award-winning St Lawrence academy in my constituency on Friday, I heard first hand how year 10 and year 11 students were gaining from accessing vocational courses at North Lindsey college. Can the Secretary of State confirm that he still supports Alison Wolf’s recommendation that 14 to 16-year-olds can benefit hugely from access to high-quality vocational education in colleges?
Michael Gove
I often find myself nodding along whenever the hon. Gentleman makes a point, and I have never yet found a recommendation by Alison Wolf with which I have not agreed.
Julie Hilling
Given the cross-party support, public support and professional support, and because he can save 150,000 lives a year, why on earth will the Secretary of State not put emergency life support skills somewhere in the national curriculum, so that every school leaver is a life-saver?
Michael Gove
The many heads and teachers who listened to the hon. Lady as she made her point will think that if they have not already incorporated emergency life-saving skills into the way they teach, they should do so in future. Indeed, with such brilliant advocacy, I am sure that even more lives can be saved.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that when reforms of the national curriculum are published, teachers will have more than sufficient time to become fully familiar with them?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. It is absolutely important that we ensure that teachers have an opportunity to absorb the changes that we want to make, so that they can do what I know they wish to do, which is to raise the bar for all children.
Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)
Would my right hon. Friend consider putting enterprise into the school curriculum? This Government are keen to see young people set up businesses, which will be important for the future growth of this country.
Michael Gove
There are few in the Government keener than me on encouraging enterprise among young people—in fact, there is one: the Under-Secretary of State for Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock). However, I would be wary of treating the curriculum as though it were Santa’s sack—as though we could shove into it everything that we wanted and it would magically expand. If we are to ensure that teachers are free from unnecessary prescription, we need to ensure that great teachers can build the curriculum they want with a proper balance between what we expect centrally and what they determine locally.
Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab)
Ian McNeilly, the head of the National Association for the Teaching of English, has said of the Government’s new English curriculum:
“It is fantastic that Mr Gove has acknowledged that English as a subject needs to move into a different century. Unfortunately for all concerned, he has chosen the 19th rather than the 21st”.
I am sure that the Secretary of State will regard that as the highest praise, but does he agree that that is almost certainly not what was intended? Will he therefore reflect again on the omissions from the curriculum—particularly in areas such as writing, analytical and listening skills—that have been invoked by our friends in the CBI?
Michael Gove
I do not see anything wrong with having the 19th century at the heart of the English curriculum. As far as I am concerned, Jane Austen, Charles Dickens and Thomas Hardy—not to mention George Eliot—are great names that every child should have the chance to study. As for the National Association for the Teaching of English, I am afraid that it is yet another pressure group that has been consistently wrong for decades. It is another aspect of the educational establishment involving the same people whose moral relativism and whose cultural approach of dumbing down have held our children back. Those on the Opposition Benches have not yet found a special interest group with which they will not dumbly nod along and assent to. I believe in excellence in English education. I believe in the canon of great works, in proper literature and in grammar, spelling and punctuation. As far as I am concerned, the NATE will command my respect only when it returns to rigour.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Mr Speaker
Order. On this occasion, an answer rather than a speech will suffice. I must also say that I richly enjoyed the Secretary of State’s Oxford Union oration.
Michael Gove
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have had lots of meetings today and they have all been fun. Getting advice from you is the most fun of all.
John Pugh
Last month, the Secretary of State attacked the National Audit Office for being one of the “fiercest forces of conservatism”, and that statement was raised with the NAO in the Public Accounts Committee last week. Is such a statement wise, given the helpful advice that the NAO has provided on matters such as the overspending on the academies programme? After all, we all want to defeat the forces of conservatism.
Michael Gove
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me the opportunity to expand briefly on those remarks. It is important that the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee should strike a proper balance between respect for public money and the encouragement of innovation. As the NAO pointed out, the academies programme has been a success for this Government. We also need to ensure, however, that every penny that we have is spent wisely.
Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)
Is the Secretary of State aware that, according to Ofsted’s recent report, there are now 381 fewer children’s centres than there were at the time of the election, which represents a cut of 10%? In the same week, the Minister for Children and Families admitted that the number of centres providing child care had fallen by 30% in just one year, and that many of the closures were in deprived areas that have problems with the availability and quality of child care. How many of those services, on which families rely, does the Secretary of State think will be lost, now that the budget for Sure Start has been cut by 40%? Why does he not care about Sure Start?
Michael Gove
It is because I care so much about Sure Start that I want to ensure that the quality of service that is delivered to young people is the most important criterion. We do not want to fetishise bricks and mortar; we want to ensure that the quality of the education that children receive is as high—[Interruption.] What sort of an example is that setting for the nation’s three and four-year-olds? I say that we should concentrate on the quality of education.
Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab)
T2. Children with special needs, children who are in care and even children on free school meals are disproportionately represented among pupils permanently excluded from school. Many end up in pupil referral units, where the limited number of courses on offer can permanently damage their life chances. What is the Secretary of State doing to find out why that is happening and to provide more support to teachers in the classroom in dealing with such pupils?
Michael Gove
The hon. Lady makes a very important point. We appointed a special adviser to deal specifically with disciplinary and behavioural issues—Charlie Taylor, who had experience in dealing with precisely the sort of children whom the hon. Lady and I care about. That is why we have a reform programme to ensure that the quality of education offered in pupil referral units improves and that teachers who are responsible for dealing with those children receive improved initial teacher training. If the hon. Lady would like to know more, I would be happy to arrange a meeting with Mr Taylor so that he can bring her up to date.
Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)
T4. Will the Secretary of State comment further on how he will address the concerns that creative studies might be squeezed out of the secondary curriculum? Furthermore, will he or his Minister for Schools meet the secondary heads in my constituency to celebrate their successes and to discuss the future direction of the secondary curriculum?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who always makes her points proportionately and wisely. I agree with her that it is important not just to reassure students and teachers, but to applaud the fantastic work that is being done in creative and cultural education. That is why I or one of my colleagues would be only too happy to meet those in the schools in her constituency that are doing such a good job.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
T8. It is 20 years ago today that the very first SMS was sent by an engineer. Today also sees the publication of EngineeringUK’s report, setting out the need to double the number of students studying GCSE physics if we are to meet the engineering needs of the future. What is the Secretary of State doing to make sure that a doubling of the numbers studying physics will happen, particularly in academies, which as he knows are responsible only to him?
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
T10. I listened carefully to the answer to my earlier question about Liverpool community college, but I must point out that Liverpool community college does not receive the pupil premium. Will the Minister responsible for skills answer my question? Will he approve the granting of £6 million, on which the college currently loses out because of the lagged funding formula, so that none of the extra 1,000 students who have enrolled will lose out.
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for advocating so persistently and constantly on behalf of her constituents. I would say two things. First, we are doing everything to ensure that we can equalise funding between schools, school sixth-forms and colleges in the direction that the Association of Colleges has welcomed. Secondly, I am absolutely delighted that 1,000 more students have enrolled in Liverpool, thus proving that our reforms to the education maintenance allowance and its replacement by a bursary fund has been, as Government Members have said, a success—and not the failure predicted by Opposition Members.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
T6. Salisbury has submitted an application for a science university, a university technical college and a free school sixth-form; we also have two outstanding grammar schools and a recent encouraging report from Sarum academy. Does the Minister agree that that diversity of provision allows opportunities for all children from all backgrounds?
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
Last weekend the Secretary of State condemned a foster care decision made by social workers in Rotherham, who he said had made
“the wrong decision in the wrong way for the wrong reasons”.
He knew nothing about that complex case and had done nothing to check the facts, which was completely wrong for a Minister in his position. Will he now apologise?
Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con)
T7. More than 80 independent day schools are backing the Sutton Trust’s open access scheme, which will make private school places available to able children from all backgrounds on the basis of merit rather than ability to pay. Does the Secretary of State agree that opening up 100% of such places would fundamentally change the social structure of the schools, accelerate social mobility, and give bright kids from poor backgrounds the chance of a fantastic education?
Michael Gove
The Sutton Trust and Sir Peter Lampl have done wonderful work to advance social mobility. Not every aspect of the open access scheme necessarily recommends itself to the Government, but I applaud all the independent schools, such as those in the King Edward VI Foundation in Birmingham, which have done so much to extend a brilliant education to students from disadvantaged backgrounds.
Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State spoke earlier about the canon. He may recall that, in 2009, he said:
“the greatest artists and thinkers are great precisely because their insights and achievements have the capacity to move, and influence, us all”.
Does he agree with the great artist Danny Boyle, who said recently:
“If there is any way you can help make culture, music, dance, theatre a core of the new English baccalaureate you will have given something beyond what you give every day”
Michael Gove
As an admirer of Danny Boyle’s film-making, and indeed of the amazing work that he did at the opening ceremony for the Olympics, I hesitate ever to disagree with him in any respect. That is why I was so pleased this morning to be able to talk to representatives of the culture sector, including those responsible for dance education, drama and visual arts, and to agree on what we can do together to ensure that every child has access to the best that has been thought and written.
Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)
T9. Our schools in Elmbridge face serious financial pressures as a result of a spike in the birth rate, the large number of young families who are moving into the area, and small pockets of relatively acute deprivation. Those factors were consistently overlooked by the last Government. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that they are properly taken into account in the forthcoming funding formula review?
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Has the Secretary of State read the Pearson report, published last week and written by the Economist Intelligence Unit, which shows that Britain has the sixth best education system in the world and the second best in Europe? Does he agree that that shows great advancement under 13 years of the previous Labour Government and following many years of hard work from our teaching profession, and does he therefore regret talking down our education system and our teaching profession, as he did earlier today?
Michael Gove
I congratulate the hon. Lady on her recent election to Parliament. She couched her question brilliantly, and I know she will be a superb asset to this House. She is right to draw attention to the fantastic work our teachers are doing. However, only last week I was talking to Arne Duncan, the reappointed Secretary for Education in Barack Obama’s Administration, and he outlined to me how important it is that the two of us work together on a reform programme identical in every detail, to ensure that, however well we have done in the past, we do yet better in the future on behalf of all our children.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
Further to Question 6 on religious education teaching, the Bible gives accounts of Jesus healing the sick. With that in mind, will the Secretary of State put first aid training in the national curriculum?
Michael Gove
On previous occasions I have observed that the hon. Gentleman has never yet said anything in Education questions with which I have disagreed. This is a first, therefore. It is miraculous that there should be any gap between us, but I look forward perhaps to talking to the hon. Gentleman to see what we can do.
Mr Speaker
Certainly there is very rarely any Question Time in which the hon. Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell) does not say something. We are accustomed to that by now, and we are grateful to him for it.
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)
Why do free schools not have to provide sports facilities, and how will that help the Olympic legacy?
Michael Gove
All schools need to ensure that their children have access to high-quality sports and physical education facilities and, under regulations that we have brought in, for the first time ever all schools, including independent and free schools, will have to guarantee access to high-quality facilities.