Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(4 years ago)
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Kit Malthouse
First, let me say that I enjoyed our meeting with the Daniel Fox Foundation. I am pleased that in the hon. Gentleman’s part of the world, St Helens, as in the rest of the country, we are standing shoulder to shoulder in the fight against knife crime. Sadly, we are having to do so once again, but it is a fight that we will and must win—I am sure there will be more about it later today. On misinformation and disinformation, he is right to say that unpleasant and untrue stories are circulating, whether anti-vaccine stories or the crazy stuff about 5G. Both the National Crime Agency and the security and intelligence services are engaged with our partners in the private sector in removing as much of that disinformation as we can. We have a role to play in this House as well, in standing together as democratically elected politicians and recognising that we charge others with assisting us in providing advice and data and that we must respect and acknowledge their views as being the basis on which decisions are made legitimately. That is the right way forward. I welcome the Opposition Front-Bench team’s support on that thus far, and indeed into the future.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Chris Philp)
These small boat crossings are dangerous, as the tragic fatalities last month showed. They are illegally facilitated by reckless criminals, and they are totally unnecessary because France is a safe country with a well-functioning asylum system, where people can seek protection if they need it. We are determined to completely stop these crossings. We are working with the French authorities to prevent embarkations. We are considering action we might take at sea, and we are taking robust law enforcement action, leading so far this year to nearly 100 arrests. Just last week, two people were convicted and sentenced for facilitating these illegal crossings.
Michael Fabricant [V]
My hon. Friend actually answered the question I was going to ask, so I am going to ask him something else instead. We have all been shocked by the number of deaths in the channel, but why does he think people want to leave France?
Chris Philp
I must try to be diplomatic in the way I answer that question. There are a variety of motives, which probably include things such as language. The simple truth is that if people are seeking protection, France has a fully functioning asylum system. It is a safe and civilised country, and there is no reason to attempt and no excuse for attempting this crossing. That is why anyone in need of protection should avail themselves of it by claiming asylum in France and not attempting this dangerous crossing.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Kit Malthouse
The funding formula has been in place for some time, and there is obviously consternation across the House about the impact it may have, along with a number of the other formulas on which we allocate resources. We will keep this under review, and will do so on this formula, but for the moment the quickest and most efficacious way for us to share out this huge uplift in the number of police officers across the country was using the existing formula, and I hope those 153 officers will be put to good use.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Dr Jamie Wallis (Bridgend) (Con)
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Priti Patel)
The Government will introduce a points-based immigration system that works in the interests of the United Kingdom, and that is fair and prioritises the skills people have to offer wherever they come from.
Michael Fabricant
I for one welcome this, particularly the fact that we will be able to get the brightest and the best not only from Europe but from other nations as well, such as the US, Australia and New Zealand, and Canada. But Lichfield is a rural constituency—a particularly beautiful one, I might add—and we have a need not just for people with great skills but for part-time horticultural workers. What can my right hon. Friend do to assure people they will come to the UK?
Priti Patel
Without wishing to compete with my hon. Friend’s beautiful rural constituency, I, too, have one. Of course, in order to take back control we are effectively bringing in these changes, and with that I am doubling the number of people who can go through the seasonal agricultural workers scheme, and more information will follow on that in due course.
Rape Victims: Disclosure of Evidence
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(5 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr Hurd
I have some sympathy with some of what the hon. Gentleman is saying. One very welcome bit of progress we have made as a society in recent years is in building the confidence and trust of victims of previously hidden crimes, be they domestic violence, sexual violence, rape or modern slavery, to come forward—frankly, I am damned if we are going to go backwards on that. I think the House is united on that. Of course there is some underlying risk, which we will monitor extremely carefully through the impact assessment, but I am serious about the counter-risk. If the police do not get consents and if we really do restrict access to mobile phones in this day and age, we will undermine the process of critical improvement in our disclosure process. As I said, the counter-risk is of cases continuing to collapse at the last minute, which is the worst possible outcome. I am sure that he and I would both wish to avoid it.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
The victims of rape are not only those who have had this terrible crime done to them, but people who have been wrongly accused. A young friend of mine was wrongly accused of rape, making his life a misery for months and months; he was bursting into tears and all the rest of it because of the stress. Only through telephone evidence that emerged was it shown that his accuser had been sexting him—this was despite his denials; he had not seen this person for years. So may I just say to the Minister that he should say to the police that this is the right course of action? Of course it has to be proportionate, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Fareham (Suella Braverman) said, justice has to be done, and that includes for those people who have been accused of rape when in fact they are innocent.
Mr Hurd
My hon. Friend makes an important point in an extremely impressive way. The whole House is united in wanting to see the country make more progress in prosecuting and convicting for rape in a more effective way, because, as the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) says, it is an absolutely heinous crime and there is huge space for us to improve. However, we have to be mindful, not least in the light of very recent highly publicised cases, of the damage when things go wrong, as in the case of Liam Allan, where lives and personal lives are ruined as a result of failures in the disclosure system and cases collapse at the last minute. That is a terrible outcome for absolutely everyone. I impress on the House that underpinning this proposal is a desire of the police to improve the understanding of what they are requesting so that consent is better informed.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(5 years, 7 months ago)
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Sajid Javid
Sadly, as the hon. Gentleman points to, there have been many instances of abuse and intimidation of Members, especially in recent weeks. All Members should be able to go about their business with complete confidence—[Hon. Members: “Staff.”] Of course, all staff as well—everyone who works in the cradle of our democracy. It is important that the police, both the Met police and local police forces, and the House authorities work together, which they are doing. I had a meeting just last week with police, officials and others to see what more we could do.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Extremism in all its forms is often whipped up by social media. To what extent can the Home Office engage with social media to try to counter that?
Sajid Javid
We are already engaging with social media companies, especially the US giants that dominate the sector. I have met their representatives both here and abroad to discuss, in particular, terrorists and terrorism-related extremist content. However, the Government recognise that more needs to be done, which is why we will shortly publish the online harms White Paper.
Draft Immigration, Nationality and Asylum (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
I will speak briefly, Mr Hanson, by way of an alternative to intervening on the Minister, because it will give her more opportunity to reflect on what I have to say, and I only really want to say one thing.
First, this statutory instrument, like many others that we are debating at the moment, changes an enforceable EU right into a retained enforceable EU right. That is the pattern of what we are doing, but it is really important that we recognise that while that is acceptable for a limited period—a transition period—it is not acceptable long term. We need to revise our thinking sufficient to satisfy the expectations of the population who regard our immigration policy as having been out of control for some time. Secondly, there is a need to skill our own people to do many of the jobs that have been done by EU migrants in recent times. Thirdly, I want to respond to the profound concerns that people in my constituency and others have about population growth. We are growing our population at something like a quarter of a million per year, and that simply cannot be maintained indefinitely. It places immense pressure on public services, it changes the character of the place in which we live very significantly, and people do not want any more of it.
Sir John Hayes
On that note, and without wishing to detain colleagues on the Committee unduly, I happily give way to my hon. Friend.
Michael Fabricant
I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. He is showing the advantage of making a little speech-ette rather than asking a question, as it enables me to intervene on him. As one Administration cannot bind another, can he not be assured that something like this order cannot be everlasting forever?
Sir John Hayes
I am guided and informed, as ever, by the expertise and diligence of my hon. Friend, who brings both those things, among many other virtues, to all of his work and to our endeavours. He is right, of course, that leaving the European Union provides a chance—but no more than that—to reconsider what future we want to build. I do not want to open up this debate—indeed, you would not let me, Mr Hanson—except to say that my hon. Friend, as ever, makes an apposite, incisive and erudite contribution to our affairs.
With that—some might say excessively complimentary —response, I will bring my remarks to a conclusion. I simply seek the Minister’s assurance that the Government will indeed look afresh at these things. I do not say that we will change everything; of course we will not. We will continue those things that are right for Britain, and many are, but we would not want simply to plough on regardless.
Draft Immigration (European Economic Area Nationals) (EU Exit) Order 2019
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister for Immigration (Caroline Nokes)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Immigration (European Economic Area Nationals) (EU Exit) Order 2019.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin. The Government’s priority is to protect the rights of European economic area and Swiss citizens living in the UK. Deal or no deal, they will be able to stay and apply to the EU settlement scheme, which will be fully open from 30 March. Delivering a deal with the EU remains the Government’s priority; nevertheless, we are preparing for a range of scenarios.
In a no-deal scenario, we will end free movement as soon as possible after exit, subject to parliamentary approval of the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill. Once free movement has ended in a no-deal scenario, our intention is that transitional immigration arrangements will be put in place until the new skills-based immigration system is introduced in January 2021. Let me be clear: the arrangements would not apply to EEA and Swiss nationals who were here by 29 March this year. They would apply to people seeking to come to the UK after we had withdrawn from the EU. Under the temporary arrangements, EEA and Swiss nationals would be granted three months’ leave to enter automatically, with no restriction on their ability to work or study. Their experience at the border would be unchanged, including their use of e-gates.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
I am delighted with the idea of the motion, particularly as Iceland and Norway were two of my biggest clients when I was in business selling radio stations—that is not relevant, I know. What I would like to know is whether the measure is reciprocal. Will we have similar rights for United Kingdom citizens hoping to work in, say, Ríkisútvarpið or in the Norsk rikskringkasting in Oslo?
Caroline Nokes
Which is easy for my hon. Friend to say. In a deal scenario, it is certainly intended to be reciprocal, but, with no deal, it is a unilateral offer that we are making, because we value the contribution EU citizens can make.
If EEA and Swiss nationals wished to stay for longer than three months, they would need to apply for a 36-month European temporary leave to remain, beyond which they would need to apply under the new skills-based immigration system.
The draft order supports the approach I have just described. First, it provides the mechanism by which, in a no-deal scenario, EEA and Swiss citizens arriving after free movement has ended will automatically be granted three months’ leave to enter. Secondly, it makes changes to support the EU settlement scheme in both a deal and a no-deal scenario.
Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin.
This statutory instrument covers broadly two groups of people: EEA citizens who are already living in the UK, who will need to apply for settled status, and EEA nationals who wish to come to the UK after free movement has ended, who require leave to enter. Although it contains some measures that we welcome—for example, the extension of the settled status scheme to other EEA countries and Switzerland—we will vote against it because the Government should be doing those things in the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill, which is currently before Parliament.
On the same day that Members received an invitation to this Committee, the Secretary of State published a statement of changes to the immigration rules, totalling 296 pages. It covers topics ranging from the EU settlement scheme to the new investor visas. Compare that with the immigration Bill that we have just finished discussing in Committee, which was just 16 pages long. That absurdity is a perfect illustration of the need for greater scrutiny of immigration law. The Government give themselves broader powers in Bills and use immigration rule changes and unamendable statutory instruments to build our immigration system.
I turn now to the SI. I will first discuss the settled status provision. The explanatory memorandum states:
“Free movement will be brought to an end, subject to Parliamentary approval of the Immigration and Social Security Co-operation (EU Withdrawal) Bill currently before Parliament.”
Directly afterwards, it says:
“However, appropriate provision needs to be made to ensure that that EEA nationals who are resident here before the UK’s exit will have their rights protected and will continue to be able to reside in the UK.”
As the Minister knows, Labour has called for the rights of EEA nationals already resident in the UK to be on the face of the immigration Bill. Otherwise, they will go from relying on supranational EU laws on free movement to relying on a scheme to be set out entirely in secondary legislation. Their rights will be significantly more fragile and open to amendment, and even revocation, by the Government.
The House recently passed the Costa amendment, which called on the Government to seek an agreement with the EU to ring-fence part two of the withdrawal agreement. Can the Minister tell us whether that is consistent with the explanatory memorandum, which says:
“In a ‘no deal’ scenario, the Government intends to protect these rights by making regulations under clause 4 of the Immigration and Social Security Co-operation (EU Withdrawal) Bill, once enacted.”
Why is it that if there is a deal, EU citizens’ rights will have the protection of an international treaty, but if there is not a deal, they will be protected only by an easily amendable piece of secondary legislation? EU citizens need certainty about their rights to live, work and study here after free movement has ended. If we know that, deal or no deal, EU citizens will have the same rights to settled status, why does the Minister not put those rights on the face of the immigration Bill?
Michael Fabricant
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to go on about the rights of European citizens here, but he has not mentioned the rights of British citizens in Europe. I am wondering what his view is. Does he not think it would be proper for Europe to give the same rights to British citizens?
Afzal Khan
I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is right that there should be a reciprocal understanding that we should be given whatever rights they are given. We want EU citizens, and British citizens in the EU, to be able to carry on with their life.
It is good that this SI makes clear that EEA citizens can spend five years outside the UK, and that time spent with the British Council or the armed services will not count. However, why are Swiss nationals allowed only four years and why, again, is that provision not included in the primary legislation? The SI allows EEA nationals and their family members to apply for settled status from outside the UK. Can the Minister confirm that they will be able to do so under exactly the same conditions as if they were applying from the UK?
I move on to the topic of EEA citizens who arrive in the UK after free movement has ended. The Government have proposed that, in a no-deal scenario, EEA nationals will be granted three months’ leave. Again, the Opposition’s overriding objection to that proposed scheme is that it was not included in the immigration Bill. These measures are due to come into effect when the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2016 are revoked, which is exactly what the immigration Bill does. The timelines are identical, so the Government have no grounds for saying that this SI is more urgent than the Bill. If that scheme were part of the Bill, Committee members would have been able to table amendments to it, whereas a statutory instrument is only subject to a straight yes or no vote, which the Government are bound to win. Does the Minister have any reasons for setting that proposed scheme out in secondary legislation, apart from a desire to avoid scrutiny?
I have many questions and concerns about the proposed three-month leave scheme. Some are taken from the “Free Movement” blog, to which I am grateful for its thorough analysis of the scheme. First, the explanatory memorandum says that the proposal is to provide leave
“in a ‘no deal’ scenario”.
Is it the Government’s intention that this scheme, or a similar one, will operate if the UK leaves the EU with a deal at the end of the transition period?
Secondly, I am concerned about the potential for discrimination against EU citizens. What proof will people have of their three-month limited leave? Will that proof be in a physical form, as we have called for with settled status? How will employers, landlords and banks be able to tell the difference between someone who has been in the UK for years and not yet applied for settled status, and someone who has come in under the three-month limited leave scheme? If we are not careful, this scheme will lead to confusion and to discrimination against all EEA nationals, no matter when they came to the UK.
The Home Office has said:
“we will not ask employers or other third parties, such as landlords, to start distinguishing between EU citizens who were resident before exit and post-exit arrivals”
until 2021. However, the requirement to check the immigration status of employees and tenants is in primary legislation; the Government cannot exempt such third parties from that requirement through a policy document. The explanatory memorandum sets out that people granted leave will be able to work in, study in or visit the UK, but it is very unlikely that employers would hire someone when they do not know if that person will be able to stay in the country for more than three months.
Thirdly, I am concerned about how workable limited leave will be. There will be many EU citizens who stay longer than three months and who will be unaware of the need to apply for leave. How will the Government raise awareness so that we do not have hundreds of thousands of people unknowingly in the country illegally? What is to stop someone coming to the UK for three months, leaving and then re-entering to start another three-month period, rather than applying for leave?
Fourthly, I am concerned about the long-term future of EEA citizens who come to the country after March. The Home Office has said outright that there might be some who do not qualify under the new arrangements and who will need to leave the UK. What type of leave will people be required to apply for after three months, and how will that work? There have been media reports that applying for a visa to extend the three-month limited leave will cost £100. Can the Minister confirm that that is the case?
As I said before, it is good that the SI makes it clear that EEA citizens can spend five years out of the UK and that time spent with the British Council or armed forces will not count. Why is it four years for Swiss nationals? The SI would allow for EEA nationals and their family members to apply for settled status from outside the UK. Can the Minister confirm that this will be under the exact same conditions as if they were applying within the UK?
Michael Fabricant
May I say what a pleasure it is to follow the hon. Member for Gedling? I think that was one of the best speeches from a Back Bencher I have ever heard in a Delegated Legislation Committee. Normally, people give their opinion and assert the usual set view. To actually question the Minister about the practicalities of legislation is something we should do more often. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman. I will also say, not meaning any offence to anyone on the Government Front Bench, that it demonstrates the paucity of talent—there are so many able people on the Back Benches, too. [Interruption.] I am on the Back Benches by choice, I hasten to add. [Interruption.]
The Chair
Michael Fabricant
Thank you, Mr Austin. The real reason for my wishing to rise is the speech made by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire. I listened to her with great interest, but growing concern. I was working with Zweite Deutsche Funk in Cologne and Berlin when the wall came down, so I do not need to be lectured about freedom of movement. I have welcomed freedom of movement generally within what I would call the western EU.
I simply want to say that many of the problems that exist now in Germany, with Alternative für Deutschland and all the other right-wing organisations, and the near collapse of the Merkel Government, are due to the fact that they had open borders. I have great sympathy with the asylum seekers and those wishing to come into Germany to expand the economy of their lives—something we all aspire to do—but there was also mass immigration of people from eastern Europe, who were not necessarily prepared to adapt to German life. So to imply that having an immigration policy is somehow xenophobic, is somehow racist—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire says from a sedentary position that she did not use those words, but I would argue that the implication was there, and to imply those things is wrong and false and, as such, inaccurate.
Michael Fabricant
In a moment. As someone who has travelled and worked extensively in Europe, who speaks half-decent German, French and Dutch, and who has worked with broadcasting organisations there, which tend to be very much on the liberal side of things, I support the motion—albeit with some reservations, because of the points made by the hon. Member for Gedling. At the end of the day, many of the 52% of the population of the United Kingdom who voted leave did so because they wanted to see some control of immigration.
This was not my reason for voting leave, which I did. I welcome immigration. The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire mentioned foreign names: Fabricant is a French name, meaning weaver. Most of us on the Government Benches do not need to be told that immigration is a good thing. This country is a tolerant society; I am not practising but I am of Jewish extraction and, God knows, my far-back ancestors must have come here because Britain was such a great place. However, to keep society working and functioning well, there has to be some control. That is why I support the motion, and why I say to the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire that she should please just think before saying some of the things she says.
Dr Whitford
I am sorry, but that was an accusation of something I did not say. This is important. The hon. Gentleman said he would give way to me before he finished, and I allowed him to come to a close.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(5 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Hurd
I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point that victims need to have confidence in the police system. That is why we have agreed to provide grants for specialist operations in a number of forces, including South Yorkshire police. Just as critically, we are investing in prevention and technology to identify online abuse.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
The hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) is absolutely right to make that point, but is the Minister aware that the chief constable of Staffordshire, Gareth Morgan, who chairs the committee of chief constables regarding this sort of offence, has told me that there is a growing trend for people accused of such crimes subsequently to wrongly accuse others of such a crime, so that that can be used as mitigation? In other words, they are saying, “Don’t blame me. I’ve already been attacked in this way.”
Mr Hurd
I thank my hon. Friend, but I cannot comment on the truth or otherwise of his contribution. However, I want to press on the House the Government’s commitment to bear down on this abhorrent crime, not least by providing the police with the support and resources they need in terms of investment and powers.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(6 years ago)
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Sajid Javid
The hon. Gentleman raises an important question. It is right that we support those who are given protection in ways to integrate into British life, and language is important to that. I assure him that we have a good budget in this area; in 2016-17, it was £99 million of the total adult learning budget.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that perhaps the success of the Jewish community in this country has been its willingness to integrate, to do in Rome as the Romans do and to learn the language? That is not always the case with other ethnic groups, so it is a question not only of providing sufficient funds but of encouraging them to learn the language and become a part of our community.
Sajid Javid
It is right, of course, that this Government do more to welcome all communities and help them to integrate. That is why the Government published—I published it when I was Communities Secretary—an integration Green Paper, which we will build on. It is also worth commending the work that World Jewish Relief does to help all communities to integrate.
Foreign Fighters and the Death Penalty
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(6 years, 4 months ago)
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Mr Wallace
On the first point, the hon. Lady will know that it has been the policy of numerous successive Governments not to publish legal advice. On the second point, the Prime Minister was aware of the decision. The decision was made between the Home Office and the Foreign Office, and she agrees.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
I remind my right hon. Friend that the United States shares English law with us. A particularly ridiculous point was made by the SNP spokesman, the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry), when she mentioned Saudi Arabia, which patently does not. I also tell the House that there are widespread reports in the press that these people were responsible for beheading 27 western hostages with a serrated knife. If the evidence is not available in the United Kingdom but is available in the United States, I tell my right hon. Friend that it is absolutely right that they be tried there, because the last thing we want is these people being tried here, and then, through a lack of evidence, being found innocent and allowed to roam free in this country.
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend makes a really important point. At the end of the day, this is about the security of our country and about justice being delivered where that can be done. For all the stories about the United States of America, it has a robust judicial system, a lot of which is based on English law, and for that reason we should not fear that sharing evidence with the United States is somehow comparable with sharing it with some other states that have been mentioned, or indeed that justice will not be done and that these people will not be given a fair trial if a trial is to happen. That is why I have said repeatedly from the Dispatch Box that I cannot comment in too much detail about these individuals.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Fabricant Excerpts(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Sajid Javid
I commend the work that is being done locally by West Midlands police to fight violent crime, particularly knife crime, and I am sure that the funds that it has put to use will make a difference. I would be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman and other local Members of Parliament to discuss the matter further.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Sajid Javid
Perhaps my hon. Friend listened to or heard about the speech I gave to the Police Federation just last week, when I said that the police should be examining all the powers that they currently have, including stop and search. Whenever they think that it is appropriate, they should not hesitate to use it because that will help all communities.