Draft Immigration (European Economic Area Nationals) (EU Exit) Order 2019

Philippa Whitford Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2019 General Committees

[Caroline Nokes]

As we have always said, we will take a proportionate approach to EU citizens. It is important that people have the right to be here, but they must apply for temporary leave to remain. That is an important distinction. It is not our intention to have a robust enforcement process, but from 2021 people will be expected to have leave to be here. It is important that we reflect that, once the Bill that we took through Committee last week is on the statute book, free movement will have ended.

The order also provides that the settlement scheme leave granted to a Crown servant who is an EEA national, a member of Her Majesty’s forces or somebody accompanying them will not lapse because of an overseas posting.

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

The Minister is obviously moving on to the exceptions, which I am sure most people will welcome. On the three-month period, the order says that people will be granted leave to enter for a limited period where specified circumstances are met. How will anyone know whether those specified circumstances are met if there will be no application, limit or checking? Is she implying that people can simply come in and stay for three months without any interaction?

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[Dr Whitford]

I declare an interest: my husband is German and has been a GP in the NHS for over 33 years. Like other EU nationals, he will have to apply to stay with his family and in his home. The Minister talks about how the Government have always made it clear that EU citizens are welcome. If they were welcomed and valued, they would not have been described as playing cards and bargaining chips in the early phases of the negotiation.

As the Minister mentioned, this order is not the means that protects the rights of EEA citizens; it is largely about changing the function of the border. In a no-deal situation, the rights of EU and EEA citizens will be protected by clause 4 of the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill, but some EU citizens are already losing out. Among my colleagues, we have 11 cases of people who have been refused universal credit because they do not have a method of proving that they have the right to remain, even though the UK is still inside the EU. They seem to be predominantly women who might not have their name on a gas or electricity bill and who do not have an unbroken HMRC record because they are carers. That is accentuated among women who have left abusive relationships and therefore cannot return to ask for papers that go back five years. We are still in the EU, and this will clearly be an issue for the very same women under settled status.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Some of my constituents have been affected by this. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a pernicious policy? People who do not know their rights are losing out and are not well placed to challenge the decision.

[Dr Whitford]

I absolutely agree. The issue of discrimination was mentioned by the Labour spokesperson. I am someone who has worked on the frontline in the NHS. How are doctors or nurses expected to know whether someone is required to pay or register in order to be treated? Are we meant to go on colour, accent or foreign-sounding names? That is really pernicious from the point of view of breaking down the doctor-patient relationship. We already have patients who are not going to the doctor because they are afraid of NHS England reporting data to the Home Office, which can result only in missing conditions that should be treated. If they are infectious conditions, it increases the risk to others.

I am also aware of cases in which some EU countries—particularly Belgium—do not pay disability pensions or state retirement pensions outside the EU. I am aware of two cases of people in Scotland forced to consider leaving now, because they are afraid that they will have no income whatever beyond 29 March. What discussions are the UK Government having on, and what consideration have they given to, the rules of other countries, to ensure that people who have worked and lived here and contributed to the UK are not suddenly left destitute or having to leave their homes?

Obviously, in a deal situation, people will be expected to navigate appendix EU of the immigration rules, which is an enormous document, to apply for settled status. However, I welcome the fact that settled status will be provided to EU citizens whether there is a deal or no deal. The test version for applying has been open since 21 January, but it will be fully operational only on 30 March. People have tried to interact with it but do not have the right phone or materials, or have to pay and reclaim, so most people will actually wait until afterwards, meaning that more than 3 million people will have to be registered in just over a year and a half. Will the Minister reassure us as to how she thinks the Home Office will cope with the sheer scale of that challenge?

Another issue raised by EU citizens with me is the small print at the bottom of the settlement scheme, which says that somebody going forward with it has to agree to their data being shared with public or private bodies in the UK or overseas. Will the Minister clarify who the Government will share that data with—it might be shorter to clarify who they will not share it with—and what protections there will be? That does not sound like it meets general data protection regulation rules, with people expected to sign up to a blanket sharing of their data.

The draft instrument obviously changes the function at the border, with people able to come here as visitors for only three months. They will not be able to come and spend as long here as they like. That is particularly relevant where people have settled here but still have family in Europe. Family members may tend to come for longer seasons, such as over the summer, to visit children or even to help people manage in the school holidays. This is still a loss from where we are now.

The Minister says that the longer leave to remain of three years will allow people to work or study. Scottish university courses are honours courses and last for four years, so it is clear that there has been absolutely no consideration of visas that allow people to stay long enough to study an honours degree at a Scottish university. That will inhibit our universities, limiting the number of people coming to them.

Like the Labour spokesperson, I of course welcome the fact that the period of absence has been extended; the original proposal of two years would have been laughable. Anyone going from the UK to study in Europe would have lost their right to remain. Having spent almost two years in the middle east as a volunteer, I know that many people who spend a lot of time overseas for perfectly good reasons, whether in industry or voluntarily, would then lose their home and their base here in the UK.

I also welcome that the draft instrument removes the immigration charge. The health immigration charge currently hits a lot of non-EU nationals who actually work for the NHS, which is absolutely ridiculous. It should be removed across the board. It says that people can apply from overseas and may have to provide fingerprints, as well as photographs. Again, I am sure that people would like to know how safe their biometric data will be.

The draft explanatory memorandum talks about the common travel area and how there will not be routine immigration checks, although it does say that those moving within the common travel area would benefit from leave by order. That implies that European citizens who live in Ireland may indeed find themselves suddenly challenged if they travel to the UK. The Secretary of State has the right to give or refuse entry on the grounds that a person’s exclusion could be conducive to the public good. That sounds like a vague phrase, so I would be grateful if the Minister gave us a definition of what that could be and what the safeguards are that it will not simply be used randomly, particularly given the Windrush scandal and that the number of removals of citizenship has gone up in five or six years from 50 to more than 100 last year.

People want to know what the goalposts are and to have some stability. If people are actually going to live somewhere, they need to know that they are secure. It is said that people who are given leave under article 3 of the order may be examined by an immigration officer to see whether there are grounds for cancelling that leave. It does not list any of those grounds—so again, there is insecurity.

At the end of the explanatory memorandum, it says that the Secretary of State did not organise any consultation because he could not think of anyone to consult. I find that rather surprising, because the order has a significant impact on many people. There was also no impact assessment, as the order is not expected to have an impact on business. Well, there are more than businesses in the UK, and more than businesses should have been looked at. Even if we just focus on businesses, however, I would have thought that there will be a significant impact from the fact that they will have to apply to bring people in when they move staff across supply chains.

The explanatory memorandum repeatedly says that people will be able to continue their lives “broadly as now”—but no, they will not. I mentioned the women who are being refused universal credit even now, which, obviously, is likely to get worse when we leave. It is not described as a registration, but an application, which implies that people may fail. Although Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box and said that no one has been refused, significant numbers of people have actually been refused. They may have succeeded on their second attempt, but they were turned down on their first attempt. The order also limits the ability to bring family members in after the transition period, if there is a deal, or after we leave the EU, if there is no deal. To say that it is not changing how European citizens live here is, frankly, not paying attention.

It is tragic that we are losing freedom of movement, which is one of the biggest benefits that we have had from Europe. Everyone from Germany east knows the value of freedom of movement. For them, it is a “heart and soul” measure, because they were trapped behind an iron curtain and a Berlin wall for so many years. The fact that the Government do not understand what freedom of movement means in a country such as Germany, or in eastern Europe, is exactly why they have not even been talking the same language. For me, the order is not something to celebrate, because that was one of the greatest benefits.

Scotland is one third of the UK. We know that we need more people, and we would welcome them. We find it a major issue that the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill is determined to shut down immigration to tens of thousands and to set limits that will cause huge problems for our public sector, our businesses and our economy.

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[Michael Fabricant]

Thank you, Mr Austin. The real reason for my wishing to rise is the speech made by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire. I listened to her with great interest, but growing concern. I was working with Zweite Deutsche Funk in Cologne and Berlin when the wall came down, so I do not need to be lectured about freedom of movement. I have welcomed freedom of movement generally within what I would call the western EU.

I simply want to say that many of the problems that exist now in Germany, with Alternative für Deutschland and all the other right-wing organisations, and the near collapse of the Merkel Government, are due to the fact that they had open borders. I have great sympathy with the asylum seekers and those wishing to come into Germany to expand the economy of their lives—something we all aspire to do—but there was also mass immigration of people from eastern Europe, who were not necessarily prepared to adapt to German life. So to imply that having an immigration policy is somehow xenophobic, is somehow racist—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire says from a sedentary position that she did not use those words, but I would argue that the implication was there, and to imply those things is wrong and false and, as such, inaccurate.

[Dr Whitford]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Michael Fabricant]

In a moment. As someone who has travelled and worked extensively in Europe, who speaks half-decent German, French and Dutch, and who has worked with broadcasting organisations there, which tend to be very much on the liberal side of things, I support the motion—albeit with some reservations, because of the points made by the hon. Member for Gedling. At the end of the day, many of the 52% of the population of the United Kingdom who voted leave did so because they wanted to see some control of immigration.

This was not my reason for voting leave, which I did. I welcome immigration. The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire mentioned foreign names: Fabricant is a French name, meaning weaver. Most of us on the Government Benches do not need to be told that immigration is a good thing. This country is a tolerant society; I am not practising but I am of Jewish extraction and, God knows, my far-back ancestors must have come here because Britain was such a great place. However, to keep society working and functioning well, there has to be some control. That is why I support the motion, and why I say to the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire that she should please just think before saying some of the things she says.

[Dr Whitford]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[The Chair]

Have you finished, Mr Fabricant?

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[Michael Fabricant]

I have finished.

[Dr Whitford]

I am sorry, but that was an accusation of something I did not say. This is important. The hon. Gentleman said he would give way to me before he finished, and I allowed him to come to a close.

[The Chair]

In the end, it is up to the hon. Gentleman whether he wants to give way. I am sure that Alison Thewliss will allow the hon. Lady to intervene.

[Alison Thewliss]

It is a pleasure to see you back in the Chair, Mr Austin, after a brief interlude.

I first want to pick up on what my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire said. It is absolutely without any basis or substance that anyone could make any accusations of racism about anything she said in her speech. That is simply not the case.

I argue very strongly that immigration is a good thing. It has been a good thing for Scotland and for the rest of the UK, and it has been a good thing for Glasgow. One of my members of staff said to me earlier that if it were not for immigration in Scotland it would just be mince and tatties all the time. We have the world to thank for coming to Glasgow and giving us the benefits of their cuisines and cultures, and all they have brought to our wonderful city through immigration.

Immigration is undeniably a good thing, but services in some parts of the UK have ended up not keeping pace with it. Austerity has caused more problems in more communities across these islands than immigration ever has. The services that ought to have supported people to integrate and become part of their communities are no longer there. The irony is that a lot of the services that people depend on, wherever they come from in the world, depend on people who have chosen this country as a home propping them up, as the husband of my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire does, and as she did as a surgeon. Many of our people, wherever they live across the UK, depend on those who have done us the great honour of choosing to come to this country, to work, live, love and make their lives here. We owe them a great deal of thanks for that.

[Dr Whitford]

I will not go back into the discussion prompted by the hon. Member for Lichfield, but we have a 90% drop in European nurses coming here, and NHS England has 41,000 nursing vacancies. Does that not exemplify the contribution that people have made to this country, and the danger of turning that off? People are simply put off; they do not feel welcome.

[Alison Thewliss]

My hon. Friend is correct. It is already the case that people who apply to the Home Office to work here are having their lives ruined by the process. I have constituents who worked in care services who are no longer able to work. They would love to be working in the care home that they were working in before, but the Home Office says no. I have a gentleman who is a surgeon, who is not being allowed to work due to delays in the Home Office. He has been told that he just has to wait during the process, but his job will have gone by the time it concludes. It is absolutely unacceptable, and the Home Office needs to look at its processes.

It is my contention that the Home Office will not be able to cope with processing an extra 3 million EU nationals. It certainly will not be able to do anything with this absolute shambles of a statutory instrument. People are being allowed three months’ leave to enter. That is fine. As the hon. Member for Gedling said, we do not know what will happen once they get here—whether they will be processed in a particular way—because no system under which they will be processed is set out in the legislation.

There is no reason why somebody could not come in for three months, leave for a day or an afternoon, and come back in again for another three months. That is perfectly allowable under the system. I do not think that that is what the Minister intends, but that will be the result. I am perfectly happy with people coming in and out; that is no problem for me. Freedom of movement, as I said, is a great thing. However, I am pretty sure that that is certainly not the Minister’s intention with the legislation.

There is no indication whether there will be any restriction on the three months. Under visitor visas, people who are non-EU citizens get six months, and there is then a bit of a restriction regarding when they can come back in, so they are not encouraged to get continual visitor visas. Again, I have constituents in this situation who have had to apply for exemptions on compassionate grounds in order to get back in because relatives have been dying. Nothing within the system in the order says that somebody will have any kind of restriction after the three months. The order is very vague on that.

The order is also vague on specified circumstances. People should be allowed to come in and work and study—that is a good thing—but, as the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton asked, how will that be checked? Will it be subject to the immigration checking service, and on what basis? How will employers have confidence in the system? At the moment, the employers I speak to have no confidence in the system, due to many errors and issues. How will the employers’ checking service interface with the people who are coming in for three months or so?

Will those people be able to have bank accounts? I have sat on statutory instrument Committees in this House in which we restricted the ability for people to have bank accounts in this country. Will they be subject to the ongoing mess that is the Government’s right to rent policy? Will they be able to go and rent somewhere while they are here, and on what basis?

Why is it that, if somebody is applying for a more permanent status, they will be subject to the £30,000 threshold, which will affect many of my constituents who do not earn anything like that, but who still carry out hugely important and vital roles within my constituency and across Scotland? The people who are coming in for three months will presumably not be subject to the £30,000 threshold, so the system is an absolute mess.

As my hon. Friend mentioned, there is the issue of universities and colleges, of which I have many in my constituency. I have the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow Caledonian University, the Glasgow School of Art, the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland and the City of Glasgow College, all of which are significant educational institutions. Will people be allowed to take up courses on the basis of being able to be here for three months, and then leave for a day and come back? People are making plans, and they need to know what they are able to do.

If people are able to work, are they able to come and give lectures at those universities? Will they be able to come and hold events and seminars? Will they be able to come and contribute to the great cultural activities within the city of Glasgow? It is not clear within the order, because there appears to be nothing underpinning the three-month promise.

How has the information been communicated to people? There has been a series of events across the UK with the Home Office and the Department for Exiting the European Union talking to people about their rights once the UK leaves the EU. A member of my staff attended one of the meetings and the Home Office talked about the withdrawal agreement and what the rights would be. DExEU gave no-deal information. Has that been part of the briefings and have people going to the meetings been able to get that information as well?

Finally, what happens if somebody stays over the three-month period because of some issue? For example, if somebody gets knocked down and has to stay in hospital for a couple of extra days, or cares for someone who is ill, or simply forgets the date that they came, because people sometimes forget things like that, will they be termed as an overstayer? Will they be subject to immigration removal and dawn raids? Will any error or overstaying for whatever reason be counted against them should they wish to make a permanent application in future? If there is very little paperwork to say when they came, when they left and what they did when they were here, I do not see how something like that could be counted against them. Again, that might not be the Minister’s intention—I have different views on that—but it is incredibly unclear as to what will actually happen to people caught up in the system, who cannot see for themselves what the rules will be, how they will be applied and what the future will look like.

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[Sir Robert Syms]

We set off as an imperial power letting people in with a limited amount of documentation. The same thing happened with British kids who were sent out to Australia because they were in homes in this country. They have the same problem. Immigration policy has generally strengthened over the years and that is why that issue occurred. These days we all have credit cards and phones. We have an audit trail when we move in. It is not beyond the wit of man or woman to find out when someone arrived and when they left. The point is to keep the wheels of commerce, travel, education and everything else turning until the Home Office gets a better system in due course. If you are going to eat an elephant, do you do it one bite at a time?

[Dr Whitford]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Robert Syms]

I will, and then I will sit down and let the Minister reply. The measure is reasonable. Let us chill out. [Interruption.] It will all be fine.

[Dr Whitford]

Is the hon. Gentleman seriously suggesting that surveillance of people’s credit cards and mobile phones will be the method of monitoring whether they have been here for three months? I think people would not find that very attractive.

[Sir Robert Syms]

Again, the hon. Lady is overreacting. We have smart passport systems. People book with airlines. There are records. If someone is challenged about how long they have been in the country, it is quite easy, if they travelled in on easyJet or British Airways, or if they paid for a ticket with a credit card, for them to say, “I arrived here, and I have been here this long.” We do not need to stamp people’s passports.

But that is not going to be a problem. The draft order is just to get us over a few months or years and to keep the wheels of commerce turning so the British economy grows, tax revenue comes in and we are all happy citizens. The point about having a more robust immigration system is that we do not need to do it on day one; we can work towards it. I would rather have a robust, fair, sensible system, slowly implemented, and just have measures to get us over the immediate problem, than to try to have everything implemented, wham bam, from day one. The Minister’s approach is perfectly reasonable, and I look forward with great joy to hearing what she has to say.

[Caroline Nokes]

I am very grateful for the Committee’s contributions—not least the suggestion that I am about to eat this elephant one bite at a time. A number of specific issues have been raised, and I will try to address each in turn.

The hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton asked whether the draft order should have been included in the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill. I gently point out that these vital protections as part of the EU settled status scheme can be put in place now, before that Bill gets Royal Assent. If we had waited for the Bill, we would not have been able to open the EUSS fully by 30 March, which I am sure Members will agree is a significant priority.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Costa amendment, which of course the Government agreed to the week before last. Both we and the EU have been very clear that providing certainty for citizens is a priority, and of course—Members might expect me to say this this afternoon—the best way to do that is to secure a deal with the EU. Reaching an agreement remains the Government’s priority, but we did accept the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Alberto Costa), and we have written to the EU to seek clarification on its position on ring-fencing the citizens’ rights part of the withdrawal agreement. The Foreign Secretary has written to all his counterparts, and we are holding further urgent discussions with EU member states to seek assurances on the rights of UK citizens in those states.

The hon. Gentleman asked why Swiss nationals are permitted only four years’ absence, as opposed to the five years we have indicated for EU nationals. For those granted settled status as Swiss citizens and their family members, the period of absence will be up to four consecutive years, which is in line with the citizens’ rights agreement negotiated with Switzerland and the reciprocal arrangements that will apply to UK nationals in Switzerland under that agreement. He sought assurance that resident EEA nationals who apply to the settlement scheme from overseas will be treated in the same way as those who apply in the UK. I confirm that that will be precisely the case.

I now turn to the knotty issue of European temporary leave to remain, which has occupied the concerns of many Members this evening, and what leave people should apply for after three months. I hope to be able to clarify that. In the event of no deal, and following the end of free movement, EEA and Swiss nationals would need to apply for European temporary leave to remain if they wished to stay longer than three months. There would be no restriction on their ability to work or to study. That would apply only in the event of no deal—as I said a few moments ago, we very much hope that there will be a deal—but it would allow EEA and Swiss nationals to stay in the UK temporarily for 36 months.

I absolutely heard the representations by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire and others about the important issue of those studying at Scottish universities and those studying longer courses at universities in the rest of the UK. That issue is important, and I am listening very closely and considering advice on how we can best adapt the scheme to reflect that there may be people studying medicine, for example—as we all know, that course is a significantly longer than three years—or, of course, studying for PhDs.

[Dr Whitford]

I thank the Minister for coming to that subject, which is of particular concern. It says in the explanatory memorandum that there was no consultation, and it is very clear that there was no consultation with the Scottish Government or Scottish universities. Will the Minister undertake to explore this issue, both with respect to longer courses such as medicine and taking into account the fact that the norm in Scotland is a four-year honours course?

[Caroline Nokes]

The hon. Lady may be aware that as part of the future immigration system, I am consulting on specific issues, along with Home Office colleagues and officials across the whole United Kingdom. The 36-month temporary leave to remain is uppermost in the minds of organisations such as Universities UK, and representations were made about it in the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill Committee’s recent evidence sessions. Home Office officials and Ministers are very much alive to the issue.

The hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton mentioned the fee level for the European temporary leave to remain. He will be aware that we do not comment on leaks, but the announcement on fees will be made shortly. The European temporary leave to remain scheme is being developed, and would be delivered, using infrastructure already in place for the EU settlement scheme. In the event of a deal, we will not need the temporary leave to remain scheme; in the event of no deal, we would not expect the inflow of EEA citizens to be any greater than the number of people arriving during the implementation period between exit and 31 December 2020 in a deal scenario, who would otherwise have been eligible for the EU settlement scheme. We are therefore confident that we will have sufficient capacity to process applications.

Hon. Members asked about the EU settlement scheme, which is in its third public testing phase. I would like to give an update: there have now been more than 160,000 applications under the scheme, of which the vast majority have been settled within three days. We are pleased with the progress made, but of course we continue to keep it under very close observation.

[Caroline Nokes]

The hon. Gentleman will be very well aware of the figure used: 3.5 million. I am sure that he cannot be unfamiliar with that figure, because we mention it a lot of the time.

As I said, the scheme is still in a testing phase. It is important to emphasise that it is still not fully open; if the draft order is approved, the scheme will open on 30 March and will then be free. I am sure that hon. Members will be relieved to hear that last week we laid before Parliament the statutory instrument that will enable us to make the scheme free and effect refunds to those who have already been through it. Individuals will not have to apply for refunds; they will be made automatically to the card originally used to pay the fee. In the relatively few instances in which the card has expired in the meantime, we will make provision to contact the relevant individuals and ensure that they are refunded.

[Dr Whitford]

The Minister says that in a deal situation, those who come for longer, such as students, will apply for settled status. They will not have been here for five years, so on what basis will they be able to apply? Someone who comes as a student will still require a visa to stay for a number of years, whether they stay permanently or go back after their time as a student.

[Caroline Nokes]

In a deal situation, an individual who comes here as a student will be perfectly entitled to apply for the EU settled status scheme. They do not have to have been here for five years; they can be granted pre-settled status and then accrue the five years over their stay in the UK. Some students may well not want to do so, because they may intend to leave after their period of study, but in a deal scenario, that option will be open to them.

[Dr Whitford]

May I ask the Minister to clarify that point? If students or people coming for a circumscribed period do not want to apply for settled status, will the temporary leave to remain still exist? She suggested that it would exist only in a no-deal scenario.

[Caroline Nokes]

The hon. Lady is right to pick up that point. Temporary leave to remain is a mechanism that we intend to use in a no-deal situation, not in a deal situation. In a deal situation, people will have exactly the same rights as they have now to come, apply for the settled status scheme and stay for the duration of their studies. She is right to highlight the issue of those who may be here for longer; these are matters on which we are in intense discussion, both with our EU counterparts and with the Department for Education.

Several hon. Members asked about right to work and right to rent checks. In our December White Paper, the Government made it clear that there will be no changes to the system of right to work or rent checks until the future border and immigration system is introduced at the start of 2021. In the meantime, European economic area nationals will continue to be able to demonstrate a right to work or rent by using a national passport or ID card. Alternatively, they may use the online checking service if they have been granted status under the EU settlement scheme. Non-EEA family members will use Home Office documentation. We have made it clear that we will not require employers to conduct retrospective checks on their existing EEA workers when the future border and immigration system is introduced.

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[Dr Whitford]

Has there been any discussion between the Minister’s Department and the DWP about the fact that women are being disenfranchised from benefits such as universal credit, as they are struggling to provide the necessary proof, even though the UK is still in the EU? She mentions that temporary leave to remain will be like settled status, but the three parts of settled status are the passport, the HMRC check and the criminal check. If someone has only been here three months, there will be no significant HMRC or criminal records.

[Caroline Nokes]

The suggestion would be that European temporary leave to remain should be about identity and declaration of any criminal convictions, as with the EU settled status scheme, and that it would omit the HMRC check—although the issue is not necessarily an HMRC check, but evidence of residence. The Government will take as evidence of residence a wide variety of proofs; it does not have to be an HMRC check.

The hon. Lady raised the question of conversations between the Home Office and the DWP; I must say that they occur on a regular basis. I am conscious, and not only from matters raised with me by right hon. and hon. Members across the House, that there have been occasional incidents to date, and those are problems we are working hard to iron out with the DWP.