St Patrick’s Day: Irish Diaspora in the UK

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 14th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Tapadh leat, a Cathaoirleach. I am delighted to participate in this debate, which was secured by the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), and I thank them for doing so. We were talking earlier about how we are seemingly in the pull-out of The Irish Post today. That will not do me any harm, I am sure the hon. Member for Bolton North East (Mark Logan) will think.

I am reminded of a story we heard the last time we had this debate, in the Chamber, which was secured by our friend, the late Member for Rochdale, whom we miss from this debate today. I was telling the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles and the Minister that we had the debate and that by the time I got home to tell my dad in Clydebank that we were in the Donegal News, because that debate made headlines in Donegal, my dad was sitting there with his wee dog Sandy—no longer of this world, may she rest in peace—and he folded out his newspaper and went, “Yeah, I know.” He was reading the Donegal News. Needless to say, that had arrived the day previous by the bus from Donegal town to Clydebank, so I was beat by that. I am delighted to participate in today’s debate.

I am mindful of when the Uachtarán na hÉireann addressed the Parliament of Scotland back in in 2016. The relationship between Ireland and Scotland is familial; it is ancient. He stated:

“The bonds of kinship and history between our peoples are woven thick, finding expression today in a deep affection and empathy between Irish and Scots wherever our paths cross. Ours is a friendship which I deeply value as I know you do. You might even say that, given our shared and complex history, it has often been difficult to say where ends and where begins, or the other way around.”

I totally agree.

Given that my name—Máirtín Seán Ó Dochartaigh-Aodha—is probably one of the longest in Parliament, it would be remiss of me not to stand up here and speak on behalf not only of my party but of my constituents who are part of the Irish diaspora. At the all-party parliamentary group annual general meeting the other day—I think the hon. Member for Bolton North East mentioned this—we were all arguing about our connections to St Patrick. If I can use the Westminster process to trump everybody, my early-day motion in 2018 was clear that St Patrick came from the village of Old Kilpatrick in West Dunbartonshire, which was an ancient Roman fort at the western fringes of the Antonine Wall. It had clear consensus from every party in the Chamber, even the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who sadly is not with us today.

As I say to the hon. Member often, I am a proud Ulsterman. My family’s deep roots are in County Donegal. Donegal, along with Cavan in the Republic, is part of the ancient province of Ulster. I have no shame in that. It is important for those of us of not only the traditional Ulster notion but the Scots Irish and the Ulster Scots to be very proud of that mixed, complex and, yes, sometimes difficult history. It can still be difficult to have a St Patrick’s day in parts of the United Kingdom. Being vocal about your Irish heritage is sometimes looked down on, and we have to challenge that, for a range of reasons, so that we can see beyond what has happened in the past. I think the hon. Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna) talked about how these islands were looked at as somewhere more progressive, with social democracy. As I am openly a member of the LGBT community, I know what that is all about.

It was therefore great for many of us to see the Irish Republic specifically push forward with constitutional debates and referenda on the right to equal marriage—not same-sex but equal marriage. To see that was extraordinary. People like myself, from a very openly Irish Catholic background, thought that would never happen.

I will say a wee bit more about my historical links, which I mentioned previously, but I want to concentrate a wee bit on Donegal and Ulster specifically.

[Dame Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman is making such important points about how progressive these islands have been. Of course, one of our shared histories is the fighting in world war one, particularly at the battle of the Somme. Does the hon. Member agree that the moment in 2016 when the Irish ambassador, joining other ambassadors and high commissioners, laid a wreath at the Cenotaph for the first time was a significant step forward in relations between the two countries?

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[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

The right hon. Lady has stolen a bit of my thunder. I totally agree, and for a specific reason: the complexity of our relationships. I go back to my other family, in County Mayo, in the province of Connacht. My great uncle James, who was part of the King’s Regiment of Scotland, fell the week before the armistice was signed, whereas his brother was in the Irish Republican Army—two very different sides of a very complex constitutional history. I very much agree with the right hon. Lady. Also, I think either a senior Minister or the Taoiseach himself has for many years now laid a wreath in Enniskillen, which shows how far we have progressed.

I come back to the personal connection—I am trying to keep to time, Cathaoirleach. When I did a DNA check a couple of years ago, I said to my dad, “What do you want for Christmas? How about a DNA check?” He said, “Aye, all right. Why not?” Well, I wish I hadn’t. My dad has cousins in Beijing and Alaska—it is just extraordinary. I think he is technically related to 35,000 people across the planet, going back to fourth cousins. This guy in Letterkenny came over for the commemoration of the Clydebank blitz, which is this week; the Irish diaspora in Clydebank, my home town, played a huge part in the war effort and in rebuilding shipping after the second war.

The then Mayor of Letterkenny, Jimmy Kavanagh, who is a councillor in County Donegal, came to this extraordinary orchestral movement, which was commissioned for the 80th anniversary. Jimmy and I were talking about the fact that we are the same height, and that each of us is kind of familiar looking—I have to say that he has more hair than me—and we laughed that we could be related. He said, “Where is your dad’s family from?” I said, “My grandad’s from Stralongford, between Letterkenny and Convoy.” He said, “My mother’s a Docherty; that is where she is from.” Needless to say, having done the DNA check, it turns out that Jimmy Kavanagh is my dad’s second cousin; Jimmy’s mum, who sadly passed away at 101, is my dad’s full cousin. Extraordinary.

We lost connection with our Donegal family for very specific reasons. So many of them left because of poverty, as has been alluded to in this debate. Maybe I can be a critical friend here, in a sense. We have talked about the great hunger, but we need to be very clear about history. It impacted the province of Ulster specifically, and also the whole west of Ireland. The famine was the impact of a political decision: that is the reality. We have come so far to rectify that, so that the whole island of Ireland has now reached a population that exceeds that of 1845, which is a remarkable turnaround for a country—an island—that saw 1 million people die and 1 million leave.

I have to say, though, that I am still glad they came to Clydebank, and to places such as Dumbarton and the Vale of Leven, to work in places like John Brown’s shipyard or Denny’s of Dumbarton, or with Turkey red dye in the Vale of Leven. Those workers’ participation in that industrial revolution should be commemorated. That is why I am wearing my tie, which shows the Royal Mail ship the Queen Mary. They participated in its construction, and that had a negative impact, not only on them, but on all the workers around them, through conditions caused by asbestos, such as mesothelioma. Many of the Irish diaspora who came to Scotland suffered the infamous asbestos-related conditions. Today, we commemorate the 100th anniversary of the death of the first person to be diagnosed with asbestos-related conditions, Nellie Kershaw.

As I draw my thoughts to an end, I am mindful of the ordinary Irish people—not the well-known folk who have made names for themselves in the music industry, the arts or big business, but people such as Rita Dawson, a nun from the Religious Sisters of Charity, based on Clydebank in my constituency. She has been there for nearly 40 years and has led St Margaret of Scotland Hospice through thick and thin. She has been a leader of the palliative care community not just in Scotland, but across the whole of these islands. She is not only chief executive of that organisation, but has been a board member of St Joseph’s Hospice in Hackney and St Andrew’s Hospice in Lanarkshire.

I want to make special mention of Rita’s faith and commitment as an Irish woman who feels at home in my community and works across it, no matter who somebody is, what god they worship or which person they marry. Her leadership has ensured that palliative care and end-of-life support has been second to none—not only in West Dunbartonshire, but across the whole of Scotland.

I am also mindful that in Scotland Irish clubs seem to have fallen back. Perhaps that is because we know we are Irish or Scottish, and it really does not make any difference, so we have not needed them—although we used to have them. I remember the Ramelton Club in Linnvale, my home town; it is why I decided, with others such as Danny McCafferty, to create the first Dunbartonshire Irish trust to cover my constituency and the old county of Dunbartonshire. That would enable us to reconnect with that diversity and complexity, and celebrate St Patrick as he was.

St Patrick was not a Protestant or a Catholic; he was an old Celtic Christian who was forceful, and whose history is as complex as anybody else’s. His foundation of Iona Abbey had an impact that stretched beyond these islands. The modern Christian Church exists today because Patrick of the Province of Ulster and his missionaries maintained the fabric of civilisation in what some people call the dark ages. If it was not for people such as him, we would probably not be sitting here today. I am delighted, as an ancestor of Niall of the Nine Hostages, with all the complexity of that history, to be able to participate in this debate and speak on behalf of my colleagues from the Scottish National party.

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[The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Steve Baker)]

I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. Alas, not every debate in the House inspires the same spirit of collegiality and a shared celebration as this one. It is a sign of its quality and pleasure that the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Dame Siobhain McDonagh) has stayed in the Chamber to listen to the rest of it. I am grateful to her for chairing the earlier part.

It is a real joy for me to respond. I thank the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Dame Karen Bradley) for securing this timely debate to celebrate St Patrick’s day and the contribution of the Irish diaspora, which hon. Members have talked about so skilfully today. The hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) began her speech by talking about St Patrick being a traveller between these isles. As far as I am aware, that is my only connection to Ireland: I grew up in Cornwall and the Saints’ Way from Fowey to Padstow was—perhaps mythically—a route trodden by St Patrick. As a Celtic Christian myself, it gives me some pleasure to respond to this debate.

I had the pleasure of travelling to Northern Ireland for some years before my appointment to the Department, and since then I have been grateful for the opportunity to travel both to Northern Ireland and the Republic. As the hon. Member for Putney said, many people will get to be just a little bit Irish for one day only, and she is right that that speaks volumes for our integration. Like her, I have been made extremely welcome in Northern Ireland and in the Republic.

We are fortunate that we have robust and productive forums for co-operation and dialogue, which we attend alongside the Irish Government. Since being in post, I have attended three plenary sessions of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly in Cavan, Jersey and Kildare, and four meetings of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, as well as the annual British Irish Association conference. Those forums are critical to our formal friendship.

I turn to the speech made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands. She was right to pay tribute to our friend James Brokenshire—a great Northern Ireland Secretary. I also recognise what my right hon. Friend said: it is one of the greatest honours to be a Minister for the Northern Ireland Office and for Northern Ireland. I particularly recognise the welcome we are extended. She also mentioned the depth of hope and expectation placed on us. The whole debate and particularly that contribution remind us of the importance of politics and how each of us conducts it.

I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s work as co-chair of BIPA. She has made me very welcome—indeed, she made it clear that if I did not attend she would be making me very unwelcome, probably in the House. I also pay tribute to Brendan Smith, who has made me extremely welcome. I am grateful to him for that.

I have just realised that I unfortunately skipped past the response that I owe the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles. I really enjoyed listening to her speech and she was absolutely right to acknowledge the hon. Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) as a champion of our relationship with Ireland and she has also given me guidance along the way. The hon. Member for Salford and Eccles gave us a remarkable and magisterial survey of the immense contribution of the Irish diaspora to the UK. I hope she will not mind me saying that I was surprised and very pleased to hear my late Conservative association president, Sir William McAlpine, cited. She will understand that he, as the most Tory of Tories, would have been both honoured and slightly amused that the hon. Lady cited him. Of course, Tony Lloyd moved a similar motion in 2022. As we have heard today, he is much missed on both sides of the House, and no doubt on both sides of the Irish sea. I congratulate the hon. Lady on her wide-ranging, witty and touching speech, which I much enjoyed.

I will now turn to our new and, if I may say so, already reset relationship with Ireland. I am very grateful to the former Tánaiste, Simon Coveney, to the current Tánaiste, Micheál Martin, and to the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, for their continued efforts to improve, further and strengthen British-Irish relations over the last few years. The Secretary of State and I have put a great deal of effort into that relationship, which I believe has paid dividends. I will return to the issue of legacy, which I do not propose to elaborate on further today, but it is important that we make progress for the sake of all the people on the island of Ireland and, indeed, across Great Britain.

I am pleased that the bilateral relationship is strengthening, and I agree with Micheál Martin’s view that it is fundamental to both the United Kingdom and Ireland that we have a great relationship of equals, which we can carry forward in a spirit of family. To that end, I want to pay tribute to Mr Martin Fraser, the Irish ambassador to the UK. I do not think he would mind me saying that he is a very able statesman and diplomat, who I have enjoyed working with immensely. He is a man of great humour but also great sincerity. While we were in the process of resetting our relations through the Windsor framework, he argued in a speech that this was always a family dispute, and that we were always going to get through it and make up. I think he was right in that, and it is a theme I would like to elaborate.

I would like to say a very deep and heartfelt thank you very much indeed to Mr Martin Fraser for all that he has done, as well as making a number of us welcome at the embassy last night for a few halves of Guinness, which some of us are still recovering from. He is ably supported by the deputy head of mission, Orla McBreen, and I was grateful that she attended the earlier part of this debate. In the interests of Anglo-Irish relations, I ought not to repeat my claim that the stout produced by the Rebellion brewery in my constituency is better than Guinness, but it is possibly too late. I would certainly see that as a family disagreement that has been largely placed behind us, which I think is reflected in the spirit of the debate we have heard today.

The peoples of Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have a long and complex shared history, which has not always been easy, but we have realised that there is more we share than that which divides us. It is often said that the Irish never forget our shared history, and the English never remember. Alas, that is the case. I just want to put on record that I am very grateful to my friend, Éamon Ó Cuív, for his work in helping me to understand Irish history from the Irish perspective. He has been a great source of inspiration for the idea that this relationship could flourish in the future in a spirit of goodwill.

For many, the route taken from Ireland to the UK has been to seek work and opportunity, particularly in times of hardship. As an engineer myself, I am struck that many of our greatest civil engineering achievements are a standing monument to the efforts of so many Irish people who built this United Kingdom. The NHS is stronger for the contributions of many Irish nationals who serve here today and have done since its founding. The most recent statistics on this, in June 2023, showed that nearly 14,000 members of NHS staff were Irish, including doctors, nurses and support staff.

It is important to reflect on the great service and sacrifice of so many Irish people during the first world war, and like others I share the admiration for the laying of that wreath. Many have remarked that the post-war rebuilding and recovery of Britain would not have been possible without the efforts of Irish hands, and I am glad to pay tribute to the manifold contributions of the Irish diaspora as part of this debate.

I will now turn to the common travel area, which will be a great context for reflecting on the contributions we have heard from Members. The flow of people, energy and ideas between both islands continues unabated. Whether it is by inventing, leading or making, we continue to make one another richer in every sense of the word—economically, socially and culturally. That historic and close relationship has been enshrined in the common travel area arrangement, which has existed for over a century and is now also protected in statute. That special status enables citizens to live and work freely across both islands. The common travel area provides reciprocal rights to live, work, study and access health and welfare services. Those CTA protections reflect the unique nature of life on the island of Ireland.

The UK Government take seriously our commitments to protecting and upholding the common travel area. It is not hyperbole to say that the CTA is central to the UK and Ireland’s enduring social and cultural ties. In recognition of those close ties, I am delighted that the Government are supporting amendments to the British Citizenship (Northern Ireland) Bill, introduced by the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), which would make it easier for people from Ireland who are resident in the UK to become British citizens.

I very much enjoyed the speech of the hon. Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna). She is an absolutely formidable parliamentarian, as I remember from her first days in this House. She mentioned isolation and discrimination. It is a sad fact remembering how people were treated in the past—I am grateful that things are now very different. She mentioned that Ireland is a global cultural superpower, and of course she is absolutely right. I hope people will not mind me saying that of course Northern Ireland is a crucial part of the overall island’s cultural record. She particularly talked about the importance of embracing “or both”. I have seen that at work. It is important that we should be comfortable in who we are and in our identity, whichever part of the UK we live in and whatever our identity may be. That brings me to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton North East (Mark Logan).

My hon. Friend invited me to speak Ulster Scots, but I have to tell him that I am notorious for my poor language skills. Since I have established a reputation for being able to say Tánaiste—thank goodness I said it right that time—and Taoiseach, I do not think I should spoil my record my attempting any Irish today. I would be grateful if he would try to teach me some Ulster Scots later. He reminded me of when I went to the Discover Ulster-Scots Centre, where I met the CEO Ian Crozier— I do not think he would mind me saying this—and asked him, “What does being Ulster Scots mean to you?” After only the briefest pause, he said, “Everything,” and I could see the feeling that he had. For people like me—my parents were from Hampshire and I grew up in Cornwall, with no particular sense of it other than from growing up as a child in that place—it is important to recognise that for others, their identity is everything. We should ensure that we respect and embrace identity, and that, as the hon. Member for Belfast South said, we make it possible for people to be both/and.

My hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) requested that we fly the flag of St Patrick over Government buildings. I will certainly consider that request, but I have to tell him that I have lost too many friends in Unionism already to risk losing any more.

The hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) paid tribute to the large diaspora in her constituency. She explained the craic, for which I am grateful to her; she said it means, “Even when you lose, you still have a party”—I wonder if she has been bugging my kitchen table. I will leave it to others to work out what I am getting at. She mentioned St Brigid, and I am grateful to her for prompting me to put on record my admiration for the female leadership that I have seen in Northern Ireland. There is an amazing range of truly inspirational female leaders right across all sections of Northern Ireland, from promoting social capital and reconciliation between communities through to the highest levels of business. It has been really humbling and inspiring to meet those ladies. It is right that we remember St Brigid too.

The hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) mentioned the Irish Cultural Centre and reminded us that we can have a good day out to see the paintings illustrating “Ulysses”. Perhaps the Irish-Scots drum might be taken along by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton North East.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North—

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

That’s not me.

[Mr Baker]

I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon?

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

West Dunbartonshire!

[Mr Baker]

I am so sorry; I do beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon. I have a temporary Parliamentary Private Secretary, but he has become temporary in more than one way. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman unreservedly, but he made a very good and important speech, and I was grateful to hear it. I have often stood in Northern Ireland looking across to Donegal, and he reminds me that I should visit.

The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) made a point about familial and ancient ties, and of course he is absolutely right. If English MPs have a fault, although they may be few, it is that too rarely we consider the importance of all parts of this United Kingdom. These past few months and years have been a reminder that every MP in this House and this United Kingdom should pay close attention to all parts of the United Kingdom, and indeed should remember the history that we have together. The hon. Gentleman mentioned poverty, and I remember with great sadness, sorrow and regret the impact of the famine on Ireland. He reminded me that “what we do in life, echoes in eternity”, as someone once said in a movie. We may not be able to set right the injustices of the past, but his speech reminded me that we can certainly avoid perpetuating injustices today and into the future. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the manner in which he set that out in his speech.

Economic ties between us have been elaborated on in the course of this debate. I just add that, in the four quarters to 2023, Ireland was the UK’s third largest export partner and the 10th largest source of imports. Beyond those statistics, those close economic ties are demonstrated by the contribution of Irish businesses to our economy, as pointed out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands. She may not have mentioned Kerrygold, but I was expecting her to mention it—

Oral Answers to Questions

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

3. What recent discussions the Government has had with the EU on the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

4. What recent discussions the Government has had with the EU on the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)]

Our preference remains to resolve the problems with the protocol through talks. Our door remains open to discussions, but the EU has so far not been willing to make meaningful changes to the protocol, which are necessary to deliver the solutions needed.

[Brandon Lewis]

Last year, we published a Command Paper that set out solutions, with which the EU has never properly engaged. It did publish its ideas in October, which the business community in Northern Ireland said did not work. We have continually been in engagements and negotiations with the EU. It has been clear that it is not willing to show the flexibility needed to resolve the protocol issues, which is why we have introduced this Bill.

The hon. Gentleman might want to look back at Hansard to see the statement from the Foreign Secretary when we introduced the Bill. We are very clear, as I have said today, that we will continue to negotiate with the EU. We would like to seek a resolution by agreeing with the EU, but it is right that we table this legislation at this point as well to resolve the issues.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Belfast harbour has reported levels of trade and increase in turnover of profits of 17% to £73.3 million from 2021, with pre-tax profits up 13% to £34 million. Can the Secretary of State advise the House why their Government would jeopardise 25.6 million tonnes of cargo, a 9% increase on the 23.5 million a year earlier, which was up by 5% on the previous record levels of 2019, by unilaterally changing the Northern Ireland protocol?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Gentleman should read the full article, because then he would realise that, between the easements, the standstill and the grace periods, we are not actually fully implementing the protocol let alone the other business that Belfast harbour takes in that has nothing to do with the protocol. What we do know is that—

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Monday 21st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Robert Neill]

That does not surprise me; it is consistent with my own experience. I say gently to Opposition Members that the issues at stake are too serious to be part of what might otherwise be an understandable bit of partisan knockabout. That is not what we are talking about.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the seriousness of the issue; it is that serious that the British Government’s senior Scottish Law Officer, the Advocate General, has resigned. Does the hon. Gentleman really believe that Scottish constituency Members, based on that premise, should walk through the Lobby and vote with the Government?

[Sir Robert Neill]

It is presumptuous, it seems to me, of the hon. Gentleman to try to suggest how any of my hon. and right hon. Friends might choose to vote, just as it would be presumptuous of me to take a view as to why any Member does or does not remain a member of the Government. I have a very high respect for the noble Lord, Lord Keen of Elie. I just observe that his resignation came before the terms of the Government’s amendment were announced and it was tabled, and before the declaration which the Minister has read out from the Dispatch Box was in the public domain; I perhaps regret the timing of that, but I respect Lord Keen’s position, and that is unchanged, and I do not think relevant to the case that we must make here.

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[Joanna Cherry]

No, I am not going to give way.

It simply does not work that way: Britannia does not rule the waves any longer and has not done so for some time.

I regret to say that while I have the greatest respect and the highest regard for the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert Neill), the Government amendment that his efforts have secured is wholly inadequate to meet both domestic and international concerns about this Bill. I cannot do much better than repeat what the Irish Foreign Minister said this afternoon: a Government with an 80-seat majority having a parliamentary lock is not much of a reassurance to any of us. I really do not think I need to say any more than that. Once more, we have a ruse to solve the problems of the Conservative party rather than a ruse to address our international legal obligations.

My amendments 43 and 44, as I said, seek to deal with clause 45. The English Bar Council and the Law Society of England and Wales have said of clause 45 that it

“would exclude judicial review of any regulations made under clauses 42 and 43 on grounds of incompatibility with domestic law…as well as international law.”

That exclusion of judicial review would also mean excluding any human rights review under the Human Rights Act or, indeed, the Equality Act 2010. As my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna) said in her very eloquent speech, human rights are of course integral to the Good Friday agreement. It is a travesty that regulations made under clauses 42 and 43 should not be subject to judicial review or to human rights review across Great Britain, but a particular travesty in Northern Ireland. It undermines not just the principle of the rule of law but the principle of access to justice. It also contravenes article 4 of the withdrawal agreement, which the British Government freely signed up to, in which they undertook to ensure a right for individuals to rely directly on withdrawal agreement provisions.

It is difficult to be certain how the courts would interpret an ouster clause such as clause 45, but precedent suggests that it would be quite hard for them to uphold it unless it is expressed in unequivocal terms. My amendments seek to clear this up. Amendment 43 would exclude the Human Rights Act and the European convention on human rights from the definition of domestic and international law, and amendment 44 would ensure that

“nothing in Clause 45 ousts the jurisdiction of domestic courts in respect of judicial review of regulations made under Clauses 42 and 43.”

Subsequent to my tabling those amendments, the Government tabled amendments 64 and 65, which appear to acknowledge that judicial review claims could still be brought in certain limited circumstances. I am interested to hear from the Minister what those circumstances would be. Do they include the normal judicial review grounds of illegality, irrationality or procedural impropriety, or will they also include review on the grounds of human rights? I look forward to hearing from him on that.

My final point is the most important point from a Scottish point of view. In so far as clause 45 seeks to interfere with judicial review in Scotland, it is interfering with a rather different beast from judicial review in England: the inherent supervisory jurisdiction of the Court of Session in Edinburgh. In doing that, it strays into devolved territory and would therefore require a legislative consent motion, which I very much doubt would be forthcoming. Put simply, the Scottish Parliament is not in the business of ousting the court’s jurisdiction on judicial review or human rights grounds—nor should it be and neither should this Parliament.

Most importantly from a Scottish point of view, the supervisory jurisdiction of the Court of Session is an inherent jurisdiction, which is not conferred on it by legislation but has been there since its inception in 1532. It therefore predates the treaty of Union between Scotland and England in 1707. Legislation seeking to narrow the scope of that inherent jurisdiction risks falling foul of article 19 of the treaty of Union, which preserves the independence of Scotland’s legal system.

In Scotland, rather to our surprise, we learned from the UK Supreme Court that putting the Sewel convention on a legal footing did not protect us from the Government driving a coach and horses through it. As the legal position stands in the United Kingdom, it seems that the Government can get away with passing primary legislation that interferes in devolved matters without a legislative consent motion. A breach of article 19 of the treaty of Union might be a different matter, however, because the question of whether parts of the treaty are so fundamental that they cannot be overridden by an Act of this Parliament has been considered by courts north and south of the border, but never entirely resolved.

I simply remind Members that the doctrine of the supremacy of Parliament is an English doctrine. Even Dicey, the great high priest of parliamentary sovereignty, was prepared to recognise that those who framed the treaty of Union between Scotland and England believed in the possibility of creating an absolute sovereign legislature that was still bound by certain unalterable laws. Many of us in Scotland believe that one of the unalterable laws of the treaty of Union is that this Parliament cannot interfere with the inherent jurisdiction of the Court of Session.

Both those problems—the in-roads into the devolved competence and the undermining of article 19 of the treaty of Union—will continue, notwithstanding Government amendments 64 and 65. I suspect that the Government have not really thought about that because, let us be honest, they do not often think about the impact on Scotland of what they want to do. Many people in Scotland, including my fellow members of the legal profession, will see that as another example of the Government’s total disregard for devolution and for Scotland’s separate and distinct institutions.

That is yet another reason why for Scotland the only way out of the mess that the Conservative and Unionist party has created over Europe is independence. I am glad that so many more people in Scotland are realising that daily. [Interruption.] It is a terrible dreadful bore for Conservative Members, but I remind them that we spend an awful lot of time listening to them bang on about the European Union and how it prevents them from having their way. Well, the Scots are pretty sick of this Parliament preventing Scotland from having its way.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

From a historical perspective, my hon. and learned Friend may agree that we need to go back to the 15th or 16th century, because this is a modern-day English reformation that seeks to impose in Scotland a modern-day Brexit prayer book. The Kirk rejected it then and Scotland will reject it now.

[Joanna Cherry]

That is correct, and it is worrying to hear my hon. Friend talk about the Kirk as he and I were both brought up in the opposite persuasion, but of course the Church of Scotland is also protected by the treaty of Union. So Members on the Government Benches can mock away; they should feel free to continue their mocking, which is seen in Scotland, and simply feeds the desire for Scotland to go a different way. They should keep up the mocking, because it is helping my party’s cause and it is helping the cause of my country.

--- Later in debate ---

We have to talk about our international reputation. We have a permanent seat on the Security Council. We are full members of many international bodies. We punch above our weight. What the UK is known for, and what people whom I want to stay in the United Kingdom want to see, is our respecting the rule of law. We need to be on the highest moral ground. There cannot be ambiguity. Protecting our Union is the most important thing to me, but we cannot do so in a way that alienates people and damages our reputation.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On the reputation of the United Kingdom and the identity of Irishness and Britishness in Northern Ireland, why was it up to Emma DeSouza to drag the right hon. Member’s Government through the courts fully to exercise their rights to identify as Irish and their rights as a European Union citizen in the High Court in Northern Ireland?

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman would have to take up the reasons why the case was taken with the lady in question, but the DeSouza case is a clear example of how the Northern Ireland Act 1998 did not address these matters. I have been clear, in many interventions since I left my post last summer and while I was in post, that respecting the right of everybody who lives in Northern Ireland to identify in the way that they are comfortable with is incredibly important and we must respect it. So I say to the Minister: part 5 should not be in this Bill. The Government should not ask MPs to vote for an illegal law as a negotiating tactic. This part should be in a separate Bill, if these clauses are needed, and it should be debated separately; it should not be polluting what is otherwise a good and necessary piece of law. All possible steps to avoid needing these clauses should be taken.

I say to the Minister that I am undecided as to which way I will vote this evening, because I respect the fact that Government have moved and compromised, and I understand that that is a difficult thing for Governments to do. But I ask the Minister to give me clarity: if I walk through the Lobby today, am I breaking the law? If I walk through the Lobby today, will the law be broken as a result of my doing so? Will I have the answer for me at 3 am, not for my constituents or others, that I have done the right thing and that this will lead to a better result for the UK?

--- Later in debate ---

[Rehman Chishti]

It is a real pleasure and a privilege to follow the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), for whom I have huge admiration and respect. I sat in this Chamber on 2 December 2015 and listened to his speech on countering Daesh in Iraq and Syria. He took a principled position then, as the shadow Foreign Secretary, and it was one of the best speeches this House has heard.

I also agree with the right hon. Gentleman with regard to the comments of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, who said on 8 September that what was being proposed in the Bill

“does break international law in a very specific and limited way.”—[Official Report, 8 September 2020; Vol. 679, c. 509.]

That is completely and utterly unacceptable. I am also a lawyer, and I will refer to that comment a little further in my speech.

I accept that the majority of the Bill is necessary for an effective United Kingdom single market when we are no longer subject to EU rules. I campaigned for Brexit, my constituency voted 65% to deliver Brexit, and my voting record is the same as that of the Prime Minister and many of those who sit in Cabinet with regard to delivering Brexit. Brexit meant many things to many people, but for me it was about sovereignty. The British public elect their Members of Parliament, who have the final say on the laws that govern our country and our citizens. But Brexit must be delivered in the right way, respecting the United Kingdom’s commitment to the rule of law, and as a country that stands by the word it gives. That cannot be compromised on.

I have real concerns about clauses 42, 43 and 45 of this Bill. Brexit was about sovereignty—taking back control of our laws, borders and money—but under those provisions, we would defer that authority to Ministers, who could then, unilaterally, withdraw from an international agreement passed by this House. How can that be sovereignty? It cannot. I agreed with the former Attorney General, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Jeremy Wright), when he gave his speech to this House on 14 September, about those three specific provisions. He is a great man, and I had the privilege to be his Parliamentary Private Secretary when he was the Attorney General.

For me, there can be no compromise about one’s core beliefs, and my core belief is a respect for the rule of law. If you give your word, you have to honour it. What the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said on 8 September—we sat in our parliamentary offices, and we listened to him—is that

“this does break international law in a very specific and limited way.”—[Official Report, 8 September 2020; Vol. 679, c. 509.]

What are we saying to our citizens—that they can break other laws in a specific and limited way? Our country is going through difficult, challenging times and we are asking people to adhere to guidance, yet we have a Minister of the Crown saying that from the Dispatch Box.

There is something called honour, and for me I could not serve as the Prime Minister’s special envoy for freedom of religion or belief. I conveyed that message to the Government last Sunday, and I was told that the Government would not be accepting the amendment put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert Neill). On that basis, on Monday I took the decision to resign my position. We talk about being patriotic, and our national anthem says:

“Long may she reign. May she defend our laws”—

and “defend our laws” is what this is about.

I am grateful to have been the Prime Minister’s special envoy. It was a real privilege and honour to serve as the United Kingdom’s special envoy for freedom of religion or belief. We took forward 17 different recommendations of the 22 in the Truro report, but I also helped, along with the United States and the ambassador from the Netherlands, to set up the international alliance to promote freedom of religion or belief around the world. We used to say to countries, “Respect article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights”. People can have whatever faith they want or no faith, but others must respect that.

Hon. Members would expect the Prime Minister’s special envoy for the United Kingdom to go along to the table and say, “I think we should do this at the Security Council or we should that at the United Nations General Assembly. We should do this at the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe or we should do that at Human Rights Council.” But after what the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said at the Dispatch Box on 8 September, how can one go and lecture others when we are in this situation?

The question people ask me is: why, then, are you supporting Government amendment 66? I am supporting amendment 66 for this reason. If we look at the Order Paper on Monday 14 September and Tuesday 15 September, we see that amendment 4 put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst had only 13 signatories. That amendment is for parliamentary sovereignty. Parliament should decide: this Parliament enacted its support of the withdrawal agreement, and if it now wants to come out of it, this Parliament should say so, not defer that to Ministers. However, only 13 Members of Parliament had signed it. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Damian Green) and my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, and I am also grateful to the likes of my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), who came in in 2019, who signed the amendment.

The amendment asks for parliamentary sovereignty, but on Monday the Bill passed by 77 votes in this House, so how do I know I can get 40 votes to overturn clauses 42, 43 and 45, which I could never accept. No hon. Member would accept clauses 42, 43 and 45, so when we are in that position, do we accept amendment 66, rather than the amendment put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, being pragmatic and being reasonable? I say this as someone who for three years, from 2004 to 2007, worked with the former Prime Minister of Pakistan who lost her life fighting for democracy, going to discussions in the Foreign Office with the Foreign Secretaries Jack Straw and David Miliband and looking at the transition to democracy. There always has to be give and take, being pragmatic and being realistic. On that basis, to avoid having to put clauses 42, 43 and 45 in the Bill, I support the proposals in Government amendment 66 for parliamentary oversight.

I want to finish with a quote, Sir Graham. I know time is of the essence. Parliamentary sovereignty and parliamentary scrutiny are of the utmost importance to each and every one of us. We are all among equals. We all have a voice. We take into account the views of our constituents, and we come here and we represent them. Over summer, I read a brilliant quote from 2010 by a former Member of Parliament, before I came to this House. I will read the quote. Some will recognise the person. He is a man of great integrity and he did the right thing. This is what he said about taking Parliament seriously:

“a word to the coming generation of politicians. I have one simple message: take Parliament seriously. If we, the elected, do not, why should anybody else? By all means…support the programme on which one’s party was elected, but we are not automatons. We are not sent here merely to be cheerleaders, or to get stiff necks looking up at the fount of power. We are here to exercise our judgment—to hold Ministers to account for the powers they hold. And that means proper scrutiny. It means insisting that Ministers engage seriously with Parliament, and that they are open to dialogue.”—[Official Report, 25 March 2010; Vol. 508, c. 486.]

On that basis, I am grateful to the Prime Minister for listening, engaging and ensuring that we have amendment 66, should these matters come before the House and if the United Kingdom ever deviated from its commitment. Initially, the provisions were put forward under statutory instruments, under which the Government could have put forward a 90-minute affirmative motion, with the Minister standing at the Dispatch Box for an hour. Please, as I tried to ask him earlier, will the Minister clarify that when and if this comes back to the House, there will be a full debate, with as many Members of Parliament who need to speak being able to?

One of the great things I did was to represent our country at the canonisation of St John Henry Newman, a great British saint with global impact. I will end by quoting his “Lead, Kindly Light”:

“…I do not ask to see

The distant scene; one step enough for me.”

When and if the Government look to bring these measures forward, please do it so that there are appropriate checks and balances at every level by this House.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

It is good to follow the hon. Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti). I congratulate him on the moral choice of resigning from the Government, although I remind him that when it comes the law of the country, there is the law of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

As a Scottish nationalist, I have often tried to stick to our maxim of leaving Ireland to the Irish, but in these constitutionally fraught times I feel it is necessary to remind the British Conservative and Unionist party of the histories and stories across these islands that give us an understanding of where we find ourselves today. We can be in no doubt that this Government will seek to portray this perfidious power grab as actually strengthening the devolution settlement, which so many of us have fought so hard to secure, but we know very well from the history of Northern Ireland that rewriting devolution by decree is simply unsustainable.

Let us move beyond the bluff and bluster of this Government’s Front Bench and the obsequious chatter of their pliant Back Benchers, and remind ourselves very clearly that a Union requires Unionists at both ends. Usually, when I look over to my Scottish Conservative and Unionist opposites—I do not see any here tonight—I see fellow Scots who are equally passionate in their convictions for our nation of Scotland as any on these Benches. They are Unionists who are looking desperately to the south to see their convictions mirrored by English colleagues, but I am afraid that the only colleague they found tonight was the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May).

Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Legal Obligations

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. When people voted to leave the European Union in 2016, they were giving us a very clear message that they wanted us to return powers and decision making to the UK Government, and that is what we are doing. We are also moving those processes closer to people directly in their everyday lives by then devolving powers, as we will outline through the process of the UK internal market Bill.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Mr Speaker,

“Whatever form it takes, Brexit cannot be allowed to imperil the Good Friday Agreement, including the seamless border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland”.

That is a clear statement of intent from your counterpart in Capitol Hill, the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Given that they make it clear that the Secretary of State’s Government can rip up international agreements to suit their own version of Brexit or they can have a US-UK trade deal, but not both, what will it be?

[Brandon Lewis]

I am not sure that I quite follow the logic of the hon. Gentleman’s question, bearing in mind that his party is arguing for a border between Scotland and England; it seems more than ironic. Our top priority will always be to preserve the huge gains from the peace process and the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. We will not do anything or take any risk that may harm that. In fact, as we will be outlining in the Bill tomorrow, we are seeking to take actions through which, should the trade negotiations not come to a satisfactory and positive conclusion, we can ensure that we are delivering on the Good Friday agreement and keeping not just peace in Northern Ireland but prosperity and economic growth for the people of Northern Ireland as part of the internal structure of the United Kingdom.

Northern Ireland Executive Formation

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Julian Smith]

I thank my hon. Friend for her text messages, WhatsApp messages and all her support during this period. I can reconfirm that the funding package that the UK Government are providing will be provided to the Executive, and should be distributed across communities in Northern Ireland.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Coming from good Ulster stock myself, I am delighted to congratulate the Secretary of State, along with his counterpart in Ireland, Simon Coveney, for the work that they and all Members, both here and in Northern Ireland, have done to bring about the Assembly resitting. An essential element of the Good Friday agreement, which is the foundation of that Assembly, is the notion—whether Members in this House agree with it or not—of a referendum on the unity of the Irish nation. Now, I am sure that would also mean that the Secretary of State agrees with me that the Union is consensual.

[Julian Smith]

I think the Prime Minister was very clear about his views on those issues yesterday. I have no further comments to make.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

May I congratulate the Minister on making a 20-minute speech in just over eight minutes? He has been on his feet all day. This is an important report and he has raised a number of important issues.

I will begin where the Minister began. I hope he will at least be able to help the House in response to some of my questions. Under the legislation that this House passed to provide safe and legal abortion for women in Northern Ireland, the UK Government are obliged to make provision for that service in Northern Ireland by 31 March. As the Minister told the House, the consultation on the matter has concluded. Will he guarantee that if the House has to discharge that legislative duty, the consultation will be brought to the House in time for us to examine the results before taking the necessary legislative steps? I hope we recognise that by that time, the Stormont Assembly may well be back in operation, and if the Assembly were to legislate contrary to the UK Government’s establishment of a process for safe and legal abortion, our efforts would have been futile. I ask for the establishment of the closest possible working relationship between the Westminster Government and a newly formed Executive in Stormont to ensure a smooth transition, so that we can deliver to the women of Northern Ireland what the House dictated: safe and legal abortion from 1 April.

The Minister spoke about the prosecution of those who perpetrated violence during the troubles. I quote from the report that is before the House tonight, in which the UK Government quite rightly say that they

“will continue to seek better ways of dealing with legacy issues that provide better outcomes for victims and survivors”.

I am grateful for the Minister’s comments about the potential for payment to victims of the troubles. That is right and proper. Many of those who suffered are no longer with us—some of them for obvious reasons, but some simply because of the passage of time—so they cannot avail themselves of any compensation, but a group of people depend on progress being made in this area. The Minister’s words will be welcome, but we need to see real progress.

Of course, outcomes for victims and survivors include, where appropriate, the prosecution of those who have perpetrated violence against them or their families; that is a legitimate demand. Although we want, as the Minister rightly said, to avoid vexatious prosecutions, let us be absolutely clear that we in this House are not turning our back on the rule of law. Those who are guilty of the most heinous crimes, such as murder and manslaughter, must still face the full force of the law. There can be no statute of limitations that provides an artificial form of protection, because that would be unacceptable to the House and the public and incompatible with our obligations under international law.

I move on briefly to an allied question—payments for victims of institutional abuse. The Minister may not be able to give me a full answer tonight, but it would be helpful to see what the process of payments for victims of such abuse will look like. The Opposition were very happy to work with the Government on the matter before Christmas. Generally speaking, I am against the overly rapid emergence of legislation, because it can cause problems later on, but we quite rightly conspired to insist that that legislation was put on the statute book before the House was dissolved for the general election.

We now need to know how that process is working out. Where are we up to with interim payments for victims of institutional abuse? Where are we with the creation of a redress board to develop a well-worked formula for those who suffered, some of them because of the incompetence of the statutory authorities and some, sadly, at the hands of those who were there to offer care?

One way or another, our society owes support to what is now an ageing population. Their numbers are decreasing day by day, and I hope the Minister can give us some satisfaction.

The Minister may not be totally apprised of the question of business rates, which has emerged in recent hours. The announced business rate revaluation seemingly results in severe increases in payments, particularly for certain parts of retail, small shops and the pub and hotel trade. There will ultimately be an obligation on a reformed Assembly to deal with this issue, but I would like the Minister to take on board the fact that this can have a detrimental impact.

Looking to our own constituencies, most Members know that a small shop, a pub or a hotel can be central to keeping our town centres and communities alive. It is important in my constituency and it is obviously important in Northern Ireland that we have some sense of proportion in any change to business rates.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

One issue that the Minister did not mention is that of those born in Northern Ireland who identify as Irish and as Irish citizens, and therefore as European Union citizens, as exemplified by the DeSouza case. Does the shadow Secretary of State agree that it is now time that the report promised on the Floor of the House by the previous Prime Minister, and which many of us have asked for, is presented and put in the Library?

[Tony Lloyd]

The hon. Member is absolutely right in his demand. The DeSouza case shames us as a society. We ought to resolve the issue not only for that particular couple—I have met them, of course—but more generally. This matters to those who consider themselves to be Irish. It is part of the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, and it is something to which every party in this House is committed. We ought to make sure that our obligations are translated into something of practical value to the DeSouza campaign. I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention.

Health service pay in Northern Ireland has now reached crisis proportions. A hospital porter or cleaner in Northern Ireland, for example, is paid a wage of some £16,943, whereas their comparator in England and Wales is on £17,650, some £700 more—the pay is better again in Scotland. I could go through the situation for healthcare assistants and administrative workers, and it is the same for nurses and paramedics.

The Minister used senior nurses as a reference point. A senior nurse in Scotland, England and Wales is paid £30,401 a year, whereas a senior nurse in Northern Ireland is paid significantly less, £27,772, which cannot be acceptable. I know of nobody who accepts that there is justification for that position. None of the parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly accepts that position, and the Opposition do not accept that position. This has to be resolved.

The Minister began by saying that the Secretary of State is in Belfast to try to make sure that the all-party talks come to fruition so that we see the Assembly restored, which is the conclusion we all want to see. If it happens, the Minister can say that the issue will be translated over to the Assembly, as is right and proper. However, I warn him that if the Assembly is not back up and running in a short time, and if we face the possibility of prolonged delay for an election, it will be incumbent upon the Westminster Government to look at the situation. Those nurses, administrative workers, hospital porters and cleaners should not have to wait for an indefinite amount of time in the future, particularly given that, almost uniquely, nurses have gone on strike because of the length of time they have faced this disparity of income and unfairness. It is always convenient for Ministers in the Northern Ireland Office to say, “This really ought to be a devolved issue”, but this is not necessarily a devolved issue. Clearly, if the Assembly is back up and running, there is a strong argument that it should be resolved by the Assembly, as long as the resource base is there for it to make those pay increases. If the Assembly is not up and running, the legal basis exists for this to be delivered by Whitehall and the Westminster Government. I am happy to go through that with the Minister and the Secretary of State in due course. It is important that the signal is given now to people in the health service in Northern Ireland that their long struggle for fairness will shortly come to a conclusion.

I will conclude with one further remark. My hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State for Wales became a grandmother this morning. Her grandchild Jesse Kearney has an Irish father and a Welsh mother—a mother from Great Britain. I would like to believe that the Jesse Kearney generation will grow up in a world very different from the one we have at the moment. I hope they will grow up in one where we have a robust Stormont Assembly and system of governance in Northern Ireland, one that allows us to put the history we are talking about tonight, be it the history of violence or the legacy of abuse, so far in the past that a generation can grow up in hope, in a transformed society. That is what this House has to be about, and it is why we cannot have excuses from those on the Treasury Bench or from the parties in Stormont. We now have to see the Secretary of State’s genuine efforts, which I applaud, brought to a conclusion so that Northern Ireland can begin to move forward again with a properly working Assembly, which can begin to deliver the transformation it needs not simply for hospital workers, but for the people of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Julian Smith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the £400 million, but we need a political decision making body, the Executive, to ensure that it is directed in the best interests of Northern Ireland citizens.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State’s former boss instigated a review into the Home Office forcing British identity on those who identify as Irish, such as Emma de Souza back in February. Can the Secretary of State advise the House whether his new boss has binned that review? If not, why not, and when will he publish it?

[Julian Smith]

It is vital that this House continues to respect the dual citizenship components that the hon. Gentleman talks about and ensures that they are preserved. The review is taking place, and I have made strong representations. The Government are fully committed to the Good Friday agreement obligations.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 9th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

I rise to offer the SNP’s support for amendments 14 to 17, which stand in the name of the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve). I commend him for tabling these amendments and ensuring that there is a chance to debate this issue.

It is incredible that it has come to this—that this Parliament requires an amendment to legislation on the governance of Northern Ireland to stop the Executive riding roughshod over the democratically elected Chamber. More and more, the UK Government are like a Marx Brothers film, but without the laughs—a parade of wannabe comedians trying their best to recreate Freedonia in their own image, with the biggest joke of all reserved for when the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) enters No. 10, perhaps by zipslide. But at least Freedonia was fictitious.

Of course it would be easy for those on the Treasury Bench, now or at some point after the right hon. Gentleman takes his place, to finagle the use of the royal prerogative to prorogue Parliament—that is the benefit of the uncodified, antiquated constitution we have—but there can be no shortcuts to democracy. There can be no running away from the mess the Government have created for themselves and for the country, and no attempt to silence democratically elected Members, no matter how much the Government of the day wish to do so. I wholeheartedly agree with the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield, who said:

“If you decide that parliament is an inconvenience, when in fact it is the place where democratic legitimacy lies in our constitution, and therefore it’s acceptable to get rid of it for a period because it might otherwise”

stop

“you from doing something that parliament would prevent, then it’s the end of democracy.”

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

The right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) has raised the issue of proroguing Parliament being unconstitutional, but is not the reality that it is very constitutional, as a rule of the present United Kingdom of Great Britain’s unwritten constitution, and that it was aped in Canada twice?

[Gavin Newlands]

My hon. Friend, as per usual, makes a very good point. Obviously, we in the SNP support a written constitution, and when Scotland secures its independence, that is the route we will be taking.

The very act of asking the Crown to prorogue Parliament would involve the constitutional monarch in a profoundly political question. Given the fact that a majority of MPs have expressed opposition to the prospect of the UK leaving without a deal, the prorogation of Parliament to get a no-deal Brexit through would be unconstitutional, undemocratic and entirely untenable. We cannot have the no-deal clock being artificially run down by the Executive while Parliament is ordered to extend its holiday. The catastrophic impact of no deal on Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK cannot be allowed to happen. For those reasons, we will support the amendments tabled by the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield.

I said last night that we on the SNP Benches are not blind to the situation in Northern Ireland, and accordingly we operated a free vote on matters of conscience contained in new clauses 1 and 10. I would like to add, however, that we still hold the principle of devolution very dearly. There are many of us in this place who followed that deeply held belief in the devolution principle by abstaining on this legislation who fully support equal marriage and, equally, many who support the right of women in Northern Ireland to safely access abortion in their own country. I would not want anyone in this place or watching at home to think that abstention in this case is opposition—it is not.

To conclude, I congratulate the hon. Member for St Helens North (Conor McGinn) on securing potential equal marriage rights for LGBTQ couples in Northern Ireland. That is a very welcome development, and he has done extremely well.

Northern Ireland: Murder of Lyra McKee

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

I want to assure the hon. Gentleman that I am determined that we will see the Executive re-formed. I will come to this House to talk about that at an appropriate time. I think that tonight, as I said earlier, is a moment for us to reflect on the life of Lyra McKee, but also, as the hon. Gentleman said, to reflect on the fact that this weekend we have seen the most heinous, barbarous acts across the world, reminding all of us of just how precious human life is. That is something that none of us wants to see, particularly over an Easter weekend. I, as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, am determined that we will take the measures that we need to in Northern Ireland to ensure that it does not happen again.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for her words and pass on my own condolences to Lyra’s partner and the rest of her family, but also, especially, to the cross-community LGBT community in Northern Ireland on the loss of such an important figure in their movement to equality in Northern Ireland. I am sure that the Secretary of State will agree that to see, the other day, the political leadership of Northern Ireland, from the Democratic Unionist party to Sinn Féin and others, including the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), coming together gives us hope that the Good Friday agreement will continue for another 21 years.

[Karen Bradley]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s comments. What has been achieved in the past 21 years in Northern Ireland is absolutely remarkable. We cannot go backwards. We cannot allow the men of violence to win. We have to stand united. That is what we saw on Friday, when political leaders from across the community stood united in Creggan. I am absolutely determined that we will build on that and that we will see not just, as he said, 21 years but much, much longer for the people of Northern Ireland to enjoy peace, prosperity and a future following the Belfast-Good Friday agreement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

As I have said, I discussed this matter with the Chief Constable this morning. We need to make sure that there are arrangements in place so that the way in which the arrest warrant has operated, very successfully, in Northern Ireland can continue.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

5. When she plans next to meet the director of the taskforce on article 50 negotiations.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Shailesh Vara)]

There is regular engagement by the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union with the EU’s chief negotiator, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland hopes to have a meeting with the chief negotiator for the EU very soon.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. Will the Minister therefore enlighten the House about the timetable for publishing the Government’s policy on the backstop for the Northern Ireland border, and as I say, with the discussions ongoing, will the Secretary of State discuss that with the chief negotiator?

[Mr Vara]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we do not give a running commentary on all the meetings we have, but he should be aware that there is certainly a backstop and it will last until the end of December 2021.