Car Insurance: Young People

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Monday 20th March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I thank the hon. Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) for his comments, and I agree with the basic points that he made. I will focus on some of the issues he mentioned and perhaps refer to one or two other issues that are relevant.

The first point, and one that we should all accept, is that this petition is extremely important. It not only draws attention to an issue that is of great concern to many young people and their parents, but suggests a remedy, which is important. Even if the remedy is problematic, the petition suggests what to do about the problem, rather than just enunciating it. Figures have been presented to us. The cost of premiums for young people is currently between £1,450 and £7,000. There is clearly a massive problem there. That has resulted in a number of things. Some young people who need to drive are not driving. They are people who need to get to college, to work and to get on with their lives. That problem affects not solely those living in a rural area; it can affect people living in other sorts of areas as well.

The problem can also lead to people fronting—an illegal practice in which an older person, perhaps a parent, applies for the insurance and acquires it, but in reality it is for the young person. It can also result in young people driving uninsured, which is dangerous and illegal and should not happen. When we look at the extent of the problem, we need to think about all those aspects of it.

The problem is serious and may be escalating, particularly as we have been told that the cost of motor insurance may increase. It is not a new problem. In 2009 the then Select Committee on Transport conducted a report on novice drivers. This was identified as one of the issues then. At that time, the Committee suggested a number of ways in which to address it, including a different way of looking at the driving test, better training, more publicity campaigns and graduated licensing. Since then, the same sorts of suggestions have been made, but not very much has been done to change the situation, except perhaps for the development of telematics, which could be a game-changer. I will come back to that.

Successive Transport Select Committees have looked at the issue. I have already mentioned the 2009 report on novice drivers, but more recently the Transport Committee has looked at other aspects of the issue. It looked at the cost of motor insurance in 2011 and included in that investigation the high cost of such insurance for young people. In 2014, we looked at safety issues. In 2016, we looked at road traffic law enforcement, which related to many of the safety issues that are highly relevant to the risk attached to driving by young people. Therefore, the issue is not new. We have to ask why, as the issue was identified so long ago and is so well documented, so little has been done to address it. I hope that the petition will help to change that situation and lead to further action.

As has been pointed out, when justifying the very high premiums for young people insurers point to the higher risk that they pose. When we look at the statistics for casualties on the roads, we perhaps see some of what the insurers mean. We keep being told that we have a good road safety record. That is true in the sense that fewer people are being killed and seriously injured on our roads, but the stark figures make us register that there is still much too much unnecessary loss of life and too many often life-changing serious injuries are inflicted on people. In 2015, the last year for which we have figures, 1,730 people were killed on our roads and 22,144 were seriously injured. Those are very serious figures, even if they were higher in previous years, as they were.

When we look at what is happening in relation to young people, however, the figures are startling. We have already heard some. There are different ways of putting them. One way causes lots of shock waves. It is when we say that nearly half of 18 to 24-year-olds crash within six months of passing their driving test; and 18 to 25-year-olds, who represent 7% of licence holders, are involved in 25% of road deaths. Those figures are shocking and something has to be done.

The insurers say, “High risk, so high premiums.” We argue about that, and we are right to challenge the insurers about some of their figures, and how they assess risk and produce premiums, often with little competition in the sector. That, however, brings us on to the perhaps bigger issue of risk to human life, which is writ large in relation to young people.

What are the reasons for that higher risk and what can be done about them? Overconfidence in young people may be one reason—they may feel that having a licence and a car is to do with becoming an adult, perhaps leading to overconfidence, in particular among young males, and that can affect driving. Carrying passengers may also be a reason for that higher risk. Sixteen to 17-year-olds carrying passengers are four times more likely to die in a crash than those not carrying them. That figure must make us all sit back.

The fatal four reasons for death and injuries on the road—the major reasons for accidents and deaths on the roads accepted by the police—are speed and driving too quickly, drink and drug-driving, not wearing seatbelts, and driving when distracted, such as when using mobile telephones, although there are other distractions, too. Action is needed in all those areas. Better training is necessary, as are a reassessment of the driving test, which is being looked at again and is highly relevant, and educational and public awareness programmes.

One factor has developed since the time of that earlier Transport Committee inquiry: the growth of telematics-based insurance, which is insurance where premiums are related to the nature of the driving skills, rather than simply to the age of the person. There are 75,000 telematics-based insurance policies. Perhaps it is connected with the idea of graduated licences, where new drivers—they are mainly young but not always—are not able to drive exactly when they want, with as many passengers as they want, at all times of day or night, until they have had more experience. Telematics looking at driver behaviour, together with the idea of graduated driving licences, could be a solution to the problem, together with better training and better awareness of safety.

I will give one word of warning in relation to costs coming down. Insurers tell us that their premiums are based on the level of risk assessed. The assumption is that, were some of the level of risk to be reduced, the premiums would automatically come down. That does not always happen. In the past, such as with soft-tissue injury, insurers said that, if certain measures were enacted, the premiums would come down; the measures were enacted, but the premiums have not come down. The insurers have now produced a different reason; they say insurance tax is a reason for the costs not coming down. So a word of warning: insurers may say, “Lessen the risk and the premiums will come down,” but they might not do it. However, we are looking here at life and at lessening risk. All those issues must be taken seriously into account and acted on, so that we do not spend a lot more years having further debates, in which we repeat what was said here, say how correct it was and how it is still correct, but nothing has been done in the meantime. I hope that we have action.

I congratulate Rhys Parker and the petitioners on putting the e-petition together to ensure that the issue is ongoing. Action has to be about improving safety, saving lives, preventing serious injuries and ensuring that insurers face up to their responsibilities and keep their promises.

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[Andrew Jones]

We have been considering the idea of graduated driving licences but I am not inclined to support them, because we want to strike the right balance in respect of freedom for young drivers. As we have discussed, many people need their vehicles, particularly in rural areas; rather than imposing post-test restrictions on novice drivers, our efforts are all about improving driver training and testing so that people are better able to benefit from a driving licence.

I am not looking to introduce a graduated driving licence system in the UK. We have heard from colleagues how that might impact on people who live in darkness for part of the year as they perhaps seek to get to shift work early. All those factors have impacted on and led to our decision not to go down the route of a graduated driving licence.

[Mrs Ellman]

I note what the Minister said about the need for better training. Does that extend to training after people have passed their driving test?

[Andrew Jones]

Yes. I am very keen to encourage people to do more learning. We continually learn as drivers and get better continually at assessing risk. I highlight the Pass Plus scheme, which colleagues have mentioned. Pass Plus has six modules, which broaden the range of driving skills that people need. It covers driving in town, in all weathers, on rural roads, driving at night, driving on dual carriageways and driving on motorways. The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency issues people with a certificate to say that they have been through the course. That can often be used to access lower insurance premiums, so yes, I entirely agree with the principle.

A number of factors demonstrate that we are committed to improving the safety of all road users and especially those who are at greater risk, such as young drivers. I very much like the road safety training highlighted by the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Calum Kerr). I am aware of other schemes around the country. He offered me a visit—well, he lives in a very nice part of the world and I like the idea of visiting, so if he lets me know, that might be a possibility. To make a cheeky comment, I like finding ways to show that our two fine countries are stronger together. I am very keen to take ideas from all parts of the world, not just all parts of the UK, if they can make our roads safer. I am aware of comparable schemes—including in London, again with links into motorsport—that are all aimed at younger drivers, and I recognise the importance of those.

We are seeking to improve the safety of all road users and especially younger drivers, who are more vulnerable and at risk of being in a collision. Nine out of 10 road collisions have an element of human error, so if we can cut the amount of human error, it will have a huge impact on road safety. I therefore agree with the points made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden) about the Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill, which is an important Bill that we have to get right for the future. The benefits of connected and autonomous vehicles will be profound, but the set of changes is also profound. The Bill is in Committee now.

We are seeking to lower the risk by making progress in ensuring that people are better able to drive and, through that, they will pay less for their insurance premium. My hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle asked about the discount rate, which has to be considered in the pricing of insurance. I am aware that the recent change in the discount rate and the likely impact on the insurance industry were discussed in some depth in the evidence session last month. I am therefore keen to set out the Government’s reasons for the change and a number of actions being taken as a priority.

The Ministry of Justice leads on this issue, but let me explain: the discount rate is used to convert a compensation award made to an injured person for future losses into a present value lump sum payment, which reflects the return that the person could expect to earn if investing the lump sum today. Last month, the Lord Chancellor notified the market of a change in the discount rate from 2.5% to minus 0.75%. She made it clear that the decision was made in accordance with national law, given her legal duty to consider only the impact on injured parties. The decision was made following a Ministry of Justice public consultation in 2012, the report of an expert panel in 2015 and the responses of statutory consultees, Her Majesty’s Treasury and the Government Actuary. The review process has been lengthy and extremely thorough, reflecting the complexity of the subject matter and the importance that is placed on the decision.

We recognise that the change is likely to have an impact on the insurance industry, resulting in a knock-on effect on some consumers but I must stress that, under law, the Lord Chancellor cannot consider the impact on defendants such as the insurance industry, only the impact on the injured party. I also stress that any effect of the change in the discount rate on the cost of insurance premiums, including car insurance premiums for young drivers, is a matter for insurers to consider.

Future of Rail (Passenger Experience)

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Sixth Report from the Transport Committee of Session 2016-17, The future of rail: Improving the rail passenger experience, HC 64, and the Government Response, HC 905.

It is a pleasure, Sir Edward, to serve under your chairmanship.

Our inquiry into improving the rail passenger experience started early last year, as the second of a series of five investigations into the future of rail. We have also looked at rail technology and rail franchising; we are currently considering rail safety; and we will complete our rail inquiries by looking at rail finance and governance.

There is no doubt that the number of people travelling by train has increased dramatically, which is a real success story, but what of the passenger experience? Examining this issue means examining some pretty basic issues. How easy is it to find and purchase the best-value ticket? How crowded is the train? Are there enough seats? How clearly is information presented on websites and apps? Are staff available to assist people at the station and reassure passengers about safety? How well does the train company keep passengers informed about disruption during the journey? Most fundamentally of all, will the train be on time? Will it be on time to the station to which the individual passenger is travelling and not simply on time at its final destination? We identified many improvements that are required, and the need for some of them is very long standing.

Let us consider the first aspect—looking for and buying the best-value ticket for a journey. The sheer complexity of ticketing, with different types of tickets across the patchwork of operators, has been an issue for far too long. Ten years ago, the Transport Committee described the complexity in rail fares as an “insult to the passenger”. In 2006, the Transport Committee decried the fact that the situation had been allowed to persist for several years. Yet last year we found that this fundamental problem had barely been dealt with and that the situation had barely changed, beyond some very small improvements. Some improvements to ticket vending machines had taken place, for example, but they were small improvements in comparison with the scale of the problem. Despite in-depth research by consumer groups and numerous pronouncements by the regulator—the Office of Rail and Road—and the industry, the problem persists.

A particularly unfair phenomenon is split ticketing. It is often possible for passengers who have the knowledge and time to undertake intricate research to save considerable sums of money by buying separate tickets for different portions of the same journey. It was possible to save money through split ticketing on 33 of 50 cross-country journeys that were examined by The Times last year, when it conducted a survey on this problem. This situation is unsatisfactory and unfair. People can pay as much as £85 more than is necessary for a single train journey, for example on the service from Penzance to Birmingham. There is a differential of £85 if someone buys split tickets rather than just buying one ticket. Further examples can be found on numerous routes.

Despite the problem having been well understood for a long time, no one in the rail sector appears to have a grip on it and no one seems to be responsible for dealing with it. The Transport Committee has been told on numerous occasions by a succession of Ministers that this issue will be dealt with, but nothing has happened and nobody seems to have the power to enforce any change.

Recently the Department for Transport, together with the Rail Delivery Group and the regulator, published a plan to deal with these issues; it contained proposals in December about certain trials that were to take place. It is unclear how effective this plan will be and we still do not know the full details of what these trials will be and where they will take place. I assure the Minister that, as a Committee, we will follow this matter up. It is good to have a plan, but we need to know exactly what it is, how effective it is and—if it is effective—how it would be rolled out across the system.

[Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Given that there are some extremely good websites out there—I have personal experience of using seat61.com and loco2.com—it is possible, quite straightforwardly, for someone to work out good rail routes, if they have access to a computer. So, given that it is possible, why does it seem so difficult for the Government and the train companies to resolve this issue, and what about those people who do not have access to a computer?

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. If somebody has the time, the knowledge, the ability and the access to the appropriate technology, they can discover a lot of information, but it is not available to everyone, and I find it very surprising that Ministers and the rail sector as a whole are simply unable to take up this issue and ensure that information that is technically available is actually available to the ordinary passenger. That is where my concern lies and where the Committee’s concern lies.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate, which my constituents will follow with great interest. Does she agree that it is also important that passengers are able to buy any sort of ticket, particularly at unstaffed stations, and that one of the urgent priorities is to make sure that ticket machines are put in place in all those stations where no staff are present, including those on the line through Urmston and Trafford Park, many of which do not have such machines?

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend makes another excellent point. There is nothing more frustrating for a passenger than to be told that tickets are available, only to go along to their local station and find that that simply is not the case. I say again that this is a long-standing issue. It is known about, Ministers are well aware of it, but very little indeed has been done to resolve it. My hon. Friend has done a great service to her constituents in drawing attention to this issue during this debate.

Rail passengers want clear and accurate information about their journeys. They want information not only on how to go about their journey and what sorts of journeys are available but on how a journey is progressing. Too often, however, that information is simply not being provided.

When we conducted our inquiry and called for evidence, it came flooding in and we saw that passengers were largely negative, first about their experience of train operating companies’ websites. One such website was described by a passenger as being

“appalling, badly designed, inefficient, difficult to use, often to the point of being unusable”.

Some smartphone apps seem little better, as they routinely failed to provide reliable information, for example about which platform a train will depart from. Once again, that is basic information and it is galling for passengers to read reports about systems being put in place, which can all sound very good. What really matters is what happens to an individual when they make their journey. That is what really counts.

It is important that the technology is available and accessible, but it is also important that people are actually at hand in stations to give assistance and information. That help is essential for everybody—travellers want to see actual people around who can help them, and give them guidance and information—but for people who have a disability it is absolutely essential. Although the systems in place for assisting people with disabilities to travel by train sometimes work, there are also occasions when those systems break down, which is another great concern for us.

Overcrowding is another ongoing concern. It does not happen everywhere, but where it does happen it is extremely important and creates major obstacles. Many people told us that their journeys were uncomfortable. They often worried about whether they could actually get on the train. Many were concerned about the potential danger in getting on very crowded trains, and that is stressful.

[Robert Flello]

My hon. Friend is being generous with her time. I had an email recently from a constituent who is trained in first aid and who was concerned about a journey from Birmingham to Wolverhampton; she and others were standing and somebody fainted so she went to provide assistance. There was not space for the person to lie down, as is required when giving first aid to someone who has fainted. When the train crew got on, they said, “This happens regularly, because the train is so regularly crowded. We are used to people passing out.”

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend draws attention to a situation that is all too common. If there is sporadic overcrowding, that can perhaps be coped with, but when it happens regularly, it requires attention and the situation is not being addressed. A great deal of the publicity about overcrowding relates to commuter lines into London, and that is where most of the overcrowding takes place, but it does not solely affect London. There is overcrowding on other routes, too. In Manchester, rush-hour trains are on average 4% over capacity, with 12% of passengers regularly standing. That is a lot of people, and average figures mask a lot of difference. The top 10 overcrowded train services in England and Wales are between 61% and 129% over capacity. Eight of the 10 most overcrowded services are in the London area, with two in Manchester, but there are examples throughout the country. This issue needs attention and it must not be ignored.

[Will Quince (Colchester) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Mrs Ellman]

Yes, I will.

[Will Quince]

rose—

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. Normally if a Member wishes to intervene, they arrive in time for the beginning of the debate. Please continue, Mrs Ellman.

[Mrs Ellman]

Thank you, Sir Edward. The Department is well aware of this long-standing problem. It must identify places where overcrowding has become a persistent serious problem, making journeys uncomfortable. The train companies, through the franchise agreements negotiated with the Department, should be required to identify where there is a serious problem and take action to alleviate overcrowding on specific services. I hope that the Minister will confirm that he is looking at the problem and is proposing action to address it.

Over the past day or two, there has been a lot of discussion about the consultation on the Southeastern franchise, which has rightly raised the big issue of overcrowding. The consultation puts forward certain proposals for dealing with the issue, but it is not a problem just for new franchises; the problem is being experienced now, and it requires the Department’s attention. It relates to the train operating companies and the provision of rolling stock.

I repeat the question that I have asked a succession of Ministers numerous times in a succession of meetings: who is responsible for the long-term planning and delivery of rolling stock? That might sound like a pretty basic, simple, fundamental question, but I have never received a straightforward answer; the nearest I have got is something about “the Department”. I then ask, “Who is it in the Department? The Minister? The Secretary of State?” Then the clarity disappears.

When we come across specific issues and problems—there was one a couple of years ago when a carriage was moved from an important service in the north to go to the then Prime Minister’s constituency—Ministers appear to be powerless. I was told by the then Secretary of State, “It will get resolved.” It did get resolved, in the end and after a great deal of fuss, but I still had no answer to the question of who was actually responsible. The Minister is very diligent about these matters, so I hope he will be able to give a clearer answer. Who is responsible for the long-term planning and delivery of rolling stock, including new rolling stock and refurbishment?

People are facing a whole range of problems in undertaking their journeys on rail. Perhaps one constant feature, which overrides other rail issues, is the constant challenge of the rail system’s fragmentation. Time and again we come back to the issue of how the sector will work together more cohesively to give the best possible service to the passenger.

The Rail Delivery Group was set up to bring the rail sector together. Yes, it has made some improvements, but it has not addressed the basic issues. How will it change the way it operates? Does it need more powers? Do franchises need to be different? Should the Department and Ministers act in a different way? How can the rail regulator be more effective in taking action? That is not clear. Does the regulator need more powers? If so, what are they? What action does the Minister propose to take to make that a reality? The most disappointing thing about the challenges that the Committee and I have identified is that most of them are not new: they are long standing. Despite the best efforts of a succession of Ministers and the Department, not a great deal has changed, and we simply cannot go on like that.

As our inquiry was under way, a major crisis was developing on Southern rail, which is part of the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise. It is run by the parent company, Govia Thameslink Railway —known as GTR—but I will refer to it as Southern, because that is the area in which the bulk of the problems have arisen and where the bulk of the difficulties are for passengers.

As we were conducting our inquiry, passengers on the route were becoming increasingly exasperated and angry that their rail service, for which many pay several thousand pounds a year, was inadequate and utterly unreliable. Whether passengers are paying several thousand pounds a year for a season ticket or simply paying their fare, they are equally entitled to have a proper service, but that was not happening. The situation remains virtually the same, with passengers suffering mass cancellations and inordinate delays. People’s jobs have been put at risk, simply because they cannot get to work on time. Some people reported that they have moved house because of the problem.

Life has been disrupted. Why? It is a sorry combination of a too-large franchise, poor management, misjudgment and disastrous industrial relations, which have conspired to create an appalling situation for passengers. The ongoing strikes have compounded a series of errors and incompetence. Passengers are right to be angry, but the Department does not seem to be doing much about the situation except to accept that there is a big problem.

It cannot be acceptable for those responsible for the problem—not just one party is responsible; responsibility must be shared by a multiplicity of organisations and individuals—to fail so comprehensively and for so long and to appear not to be acting. In 2016 alone, 58,983 train journeys were partly or wholly cancelled. That is a tremendous figure. I do not think the travelling public want to hear all the arguments about who is responsible. They just know that it is a fact that their lives are still being disrupted and that nothing much is changing, and they want something done about it.

The Department has already accepted that the franchise that was drawn up was much too large. It is the largest in the country. It is uniquely large; it contains more than a fifth of all the passenger journeys across Britain’s entire network. It is too large a franchise, and the Department has said that that was its mistake.

Add to that the situation on the ground and the complexity of major infrastructure works planned during the course of the franchise agreement, including the huge and logistically challenging Thameslink programme, and there was a recipe for calamitous passenger experience. The impact of the Thameslink programme on passenger services was substantially underestimated. The estimated number of delay minutes was forecast to be 10,000 per year; the reality has been 10,000 per week. I ask the Minister how that estimate could be so disastrously wrong. It has contributed substantially to the problem.

If we add to those things—too large a franchise and a major infrastructure challenge, the impact of which was grossly underestimated—inadequate levels of staffing, the situation becomes even worse. The industrial action on top of that has escalated the situation to an unacceptable level.

I mention one other factor; I suspect hon. Members will find it difficult to believe if they are not already aware of it. At the very beginning of the franchise, the company did not have enough drivers to operate the trains. That part has been rectified—except for the fact that we are now in a dispute about driver-only operation—but having insufficient drivers at the beginning of the franchise does not suggest great competence.

The question for the Department and the Minister to answer is: what is being done? The franchise was constructed on a management fee basis, which is currently unique, because of the anticipated risk. The revenues go directly to the Government and a fee is paid to the train operator, so there is no risk in that sense. I have described the nature of the services and the problems. The train operator receives an annual management fee of around £1 billion; probably around £3 billion has been paid out to date. Under that system, the public purse foots the bill for losses that occur from lost sales, disruption and passenger compensation.

I do not have an up-to-date figure of exactly how much has been lost and how much the public purse will have to pay out, but the latest figure I have is £38 million and rising. That was supplied by the Minister in a letter to me some time ago. Compensation schemes have been announced since then, and we do not know how they are operating or how much money is involved. The bill could be increasing substantially.

To add to the complexity and difficulty, there is the issue of force majeure, which concerns the dispute—ongoing and unresolved, as far as I am aware—between the train operating company and the Department for Transport about who is responsible for all those cancelled services. Who is responsible for those 58,983 and more train journeys that were wholly or partly cancelled? There is an unresolved dispute between the Department and the train company, with no end date in sight. That cannot be acceptable. All this is continuing—passengers are getting more and more angry, and there is no end date. I hope the Minister can tell us what is happening and when it will be resolved. The public also have a right to know what the Department’s plans are to deal with the situation.

The franchise is due to run until September 2021. I would not like to anticipate the extent or the level of anger that passengers are going to be feeling by then if nothing changes. What is the Department doing? Is it considering restructuring the franchise—perhaps dividing it up and allocating different parts to different operators? There is silence. We simply do not know what is happening. Doing nothing is simply not enough.

[Kate Green]

My hon. Friend is highlighting well-publicised problems at Southern Rail. She will know that, in the last few weeks, a similar dispute began with Northern Rail, which serves both her constituency and mine. Does she agree that Ministers need to take action swiftly so that we do not end up in the long drawn-out and unresolved situation with Northern Rail that passengers have had to suffer at Southern Rail? Will she call on the Minister to tell us what swift action the Government are taking?

[Mrs Ellman]

I agree with my hon. Friend. The issue is escalating and is now not solely to do with Southern Rail. I hope the Minister is able to tell us what he and the Department are doing to deal with this unacceptable situation. However blame is apportioned, it is the passengers who are suffering.

I thank the Minister for certain steps that he has taken in relation to Southern Rail, which have an impact on the rest of the rail network. The Committee was extremely concerned to find that the Department was not making information available about its monitoring of the franchise and whether contractual benchmarks were being met. After a lot of pressure from the Committee, the Minister agreed that that information would be made publicly available as far as it could be—not simply for Southern Rail, but across the network for other franchises.

I thank the Minister for responding to our concerns so swiftly when he realised their extent, but I have to ask when that information will actually be made available, for Southern Rail and for franchises in the rest of the country. It is extremely important that the Department monitors franchises. Because of its failures, the situation in the Southern franchise has now reached dramatic proportions, but there are other issues in other parts of the rail network and the Department is equally responsible there. I would like some information on that monitoring.

I have dwelt at some length on what is happening at Southern Rail because it is such a traumatic, ongoing event, but also because some of its features can be applied in other areas. We have major infrastructure works planned for other parts of the network as well. Will the Minister ensure that the problems in miscalculations made in relation to infrastructure on Southern Rail will not be replicated in other parts of the country when major infrastructure works take place? That is a very important question.

It is important to go back to the beginning and ask how we know what passengers’ concerns are and whether we are monitoring them properly. The rail sector does have ways of monitoring passengers’ views. There is an annual rail passenger survey, and other things are done, but the Committee felt that they were not really adequate because some of the information that we picked up from passengers was not reflected in some of the official statistics that had been collected. I would ask that that whole system be looked at again.

Later in this Parliament, we will complete our “future of the rail” series of inquiries by looking at rail finance and governance, and how important changes should and can be implemented. I am in no doubt that the massive increase in the numbers of people using trains is a success story and I applaud many of the developments in our rail service. In many ways, it has been a success—but there are major problems and issues, and one is the passenger experience.

I have outlined some of the report’s findings today, and I thank all Committee members, a number of whom are here this afternoon, for their work and dedication. They looked at the issue as a whole and have drawn attention to their own individual information and experience from their role as constituency MPs. I thank them for that.

We are all working to secure one end: to bring improvements. I conclude by thanking the Minister for the attention he has already shown to some aspects of the issue. However, the Committee would like to know what else will be done so that passengers’ experience can be improved, on a growing and increasingly successful railway.

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[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) on securing the debate, which I have found fascinating—I must confess that I did not think I would. I am pleased to be here to sum up for the third party in the House.

The hon. Lady was encyclopaedic in her knowledge and wonderful in explaining the key issues. I will not repeat each and every one, but she talked about ticketing—as did the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers), to whom I will come in a moment—and that rings all sorts of bells. We need a method across the entire rail network for getting the best deal for customers.

At this point, I should declare an interest: I frequently use the Virgin Trains West Coast, and with my senior railcard I manage to get some good discounts. However, because of the nature of how we work in this place, I cannot always book a ticket when that would be cheapest, which makes it very expensive.

I totally understand overcrowding on trains. I am fortunate in that I do not have to commute around London; even though my claustrophobia is now much better, I do not know whether I could do it. Sometimes, when I see how bad the tube is, I am able to step back and wait for 20 minutes until things calm down, but that cannot be done on a train. I feel very sorry for people who have to go through that on a daily basis.

The biggest issue seems to be how the franchises are handed out. We hear that some franchises were given to operators who did not have enough drivers—that is a complete disgrace. As the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside said, passengers should be entitled to a full service, but, if I picked it up correctly, 58,500 cancellations took place in a week—not in a year?

[Mrs Ellman]

That was in one year—in 2016, to be specific.

[Marion Fellows]

I stand corrected. However, in anyone’s book that number of cancellations is not acceptable. The management fee basis on which the Southern franchise was put out seems to be quite a drain on the public purse and something that the Government should look at as quickly as possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank the Committee and hon. Members present for their valuable contributions. The Minister clearly has an understanding of these issues, and I like to think that he received his training when he was a member of the Transport Committee in previous years.

[Paul Maynard]

Yes, I did.

[Mrs Ellman]

The Minister spoke about the importance of having a delivery date. It is vital that we have an early delivery date for the improvement of the passenger experience, and I assure him that we will continue to pursue that aim.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the Sixth Report from the Transport Committee of Session 2016-17, The future of rail: Improving the rail passenger experience, HC 64, and the Government Response, HC 905.

Bus Services Bill [Lords]

Louise Ellman Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 1st March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Transport Committee was pleased to have the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill after its consideration in the other place. Indeed, that was the fifth occasion in this Parliament and the previous one that the Committee had considered the state of our bus services, which indicates the level of dissatisfaction with the problems of the current system and the need for change.

Nobody should doubt the importance of buses to our local communities. About five times as many public transport journeys are made by bus than by train, yet little attention is given to buses. Overall, across Great Britain, buses account for 62% of passenger journeys, but the figure reaches over 80% in Manchester, Merseyside and the west midlands. We are therefore talking about a lot of people. I have always found it totally incomprehensible that there is so little national interest in bus services when so many people across the country are affected by them.

Good local bus networks open up new education opportunities for young people, provide routes to work—64% of jobseekers cannot drive or have no access to a vehicle—and ensure that people have proper access to healthcare and social facilities. The converse is also true. If bus services are inadequate or, indeed, do not exist at all, many people lose out on opportunities to develop their abilities or even to get a job, and the economy loses out, too. Interesting new analysis that was recently published by the University of Leeds suggests that a 10% improvement in local bus service connectivity is associated with a 3.6% reduction in social deprivation. Simply put, we cannot afford to neglect our bus networks.

[Rob Marris]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the difficulties with buses can be the huge cost? My home is less than a mile and a half from the centre of the city, yet a one-way ticket is £2.40. That is absolutely ridiculous, and the situation is replicated across the country.

[Mrs Ellman]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the cost of bus services often deters people from using them, which indicates that the promise of deregulation has not materialised. We were told that competition would bring down costs and fares, but that simply has not happened.

In England, outside London, we have seen a long-term decline in bus passenger numbers since the deregulation of the bus services market in 1986. Since then, operators have been able to run bus services on the routes of their choosing, with the frequency and fares that they feel appropriate. The result is that we now have a two-tier system outside London. Commercial operators, especially the big five companies that dominate the market, run profitable routes and, as the previous Transport Committee found, a lack of competition means that they are failing to provide an adequate service in many areas. Routes in those other areas have often been funded by local authorities, which have often stepped into the breach if socially important services are not commercially viable.

Local authority budgets have been cut in recent years, which has taken its toll on the provision of local bus services. Indeed, since 2010, funding for supported bus services in England and Wales has been reduced by 25%. Our inquiry heard that, in practice, whole villages and towns have been cut off from their neighbours, but this is not always about villages and towns because estates or whole areas of a city or town can be cut off. That prevents people living in those areas from having reasonable access to jobs and training, or being able to get on with their life.

One problem with the current system, as hon. Members have said, is a lack of integration and proper information. Passengers are offered a confusing variety of tickets covering different operators. Different fares are set and various technologies are used, and timetables are not always properly accessible to people who want to use buses. Accessibility is an important aspect of making bus services attractive. People will use buses if the services are there, if they feel that those services are reliable and if they have proper information about what is available, but too often that simply does not happen. The fact that timetables are not integrated with those for other modes of transport is another problem.

Integrating different modes of public transport is important for reducing congestion and addressing the important issue of air quality. We need more integration of our public transport services—that is what most people want—but the current system does not facilitate that. There are alternative models to the two-tier system of deregulation, and London is the most prominent one. Patronage across the capital has doubled since 1986 and, on average, fares there have been lower than in other city regions. The system that is operated in London might not be suitable for all parts of the country, and certainly not all local authorities would want to take it up, but the situation there shows that when appropriate powers are given to local authorities to work with the private sector, which provides the actual buses, the system can work.

Some attempts to reform the system that began operating in 1986 have brought about improvements, albeit limited ones. Our inquiry was given examples of innovative partnerships operating around the country. For example, the west midlands bus alliance has benefited passengers through integrated timetabling and joint ticketing, and FirstGroup told us about a successful partnership in Bristol. I am sure that there are many other examples of partnerships on offer under the current system that have made things better and been able to address some of the problems.

However, those achievements have been few and have come too slowly, and some parts of the current framework are clearly not fit for purpose. Members have mentioned quality contract schemes. They were introduced to give local authorities the opportunity to implement a system similar to franchising if they wanted to do so, but no such scheme has ever been implemented. As has been indicated, it might be that no authority wanted to do so, but I do not think that that is the case. The system that was set up—not by this Government but by a previous one—was so complicated, complex and convoluted that in practice it was difficult to implement, so authorities simply did not attempt it.

I am glad that the Bill has had such widespread general support. It is the latest in a series of attempts to address the problems created by bus deregulation—I believe it is the third such Bill to be presented to Parliament since that time. The Transport Committee looked at the Bill in general and examined its details, including the changes made by the other place. We support the Bill and most of what is in it. We support the general principle of local authorities deciding the structure of bus services that is most appropriate for their communities. That structure might be a deregulated market left as it is, or it might be about partnerships, franchising or setting up a municipal operation. Our report on the Bill states clearly that we would encourage local authorities to look at each of the possibilities sequentially to see which is the most appropriate to address problems in their area. The question we should be asking now is: how will the Bill improve the situation? How will this Bill put in place something different from what has gone before? How will it make things better? Let me say at the outset that this Bill is a much more comprehensive approach to improving bus services than either of the previous Bills because it looks at the system as a whole and the improvements it suggests are much more substantial and comprehensive than before.

The Committee heard powerful testimony about the difficulties faced by people with visual impairments when using the bus, and we commend the Government’s commitment to introduce regulations on improving audio-visual provisions. In particular, we heard evidence from Jacqueline Juden, a guide dog user, who described graphically the problems experienced by visually impaired people when using buses. The latest information shows that only 19% of buses provide reliable next-stop audio-visual information, with most of those being in London. I was appalled to read evidence from Guide Dogs saying that its survey found that 32% of visually impaired people using buses had missed a stop because they were too worried to inquire about where they were. It provided the equally horrendous and surprising statistic that 28% of drivers had refused to tell these people that information. Hon. Members have talked about problems when people do not have enough access to information and data. We wholeheartedly welcome the Bill’s provisions to make those much more available, as that is very important.

Let me turn to the structural changes proposed in the Bill, as amended in the other place and as the Secretary of State intends to take it through this House. Will those changes make a substantial difference? The provisions as amended—even before that—will make a welcome, positive change. The Bill offers stronger powers for local authorities to work with private operators and for new forms of partnership—advanced quality contracts, enhanced partnerships and franchising. We were very concerned about the Department’s failure to publish regulations and guidance when we considered the Bill, as that impeded scrutiny. It was very wrong that that was the situation, but since that time changes have been made, and guidance and some regulations have been published. However, it appears from that guidance that even authorities with a directly elected mayor, which are eligible for franchising—the Secretary of State confirmed that again this afternoon, as the Government do not propose to change that proposition—would have to make what the regulations call a “compelling case” for franchising to the Minister.

May I ask for clarification about the position? The Committee did not have that information when we considered the Bill, and we were concerned that we did not know what the regulations and guidance would be. I must ask the Minister what that provision means. Does it in any way cut across the commitment, which was repeated today, that areas with directly elected mayors would be able to opt for a franchising system if they want to do that?

We are still unclear about whether transport authorities without a directly elected mayor will be able to have franchising if they feel that that is suitable for their area. I sense some ambivalence in the Secretary of State’s comments. It is clear that he does not want franchising powers to be held in areas outside those with directly elected mayors, although I understand that a separate agreement has been made in relation to Cornwall. However, the guidance is still in place, so what exactly does it mean? What kind of application could be made by local transport authorities outside areas with directly elected mayors? Would the process be complicated, meaning in effect that these areas would not get authorisation? What is going on, and will this be very confusing?

Our inquiry also heard about the deep frustration that communities feel when bus services are cancelled without proper notice being given. We therefore very much welcome the provision in the Bill that will allow the designation of bus routes as community assets. That would mean that the cancellation of a route could be delayed while alternatives were considered, which we think is a very good idea. We also looked at the question of whether municipal operators should be set up, and we felt that, in general, local transport authorities should be able to have the system they think appropriate for their areas. We certainly recognised that there could be conflicts of interest, but we felt there were ways in which those could be addressed. We did not think it was right—we felt it was disproportionate—to say that no new municipal operators could be set up.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I wonder whether my hon. Friend can offer me some advice. Local authorities that currently have a municipal operator will already tender for a supported service. In my local authority, those supported services are provided not by the municipal operator, but by our community transport organisation. Does that not demonstrate that it is possible to have a municipal operator but still operate a competitive tendering process?

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. She represents an area in which a successful municipal operator has been functioning very effectively for a long time, and gives us a clear example of how possible conflicts of interest can be addressed. Even at this late stage, I urge Ministers to look again at that issue.

Traffic management has not yet been mentioned. Buses are important not only for mobility, but in addressing environmental issues, and making transport around our cities and towns easier. Running buses cannot be dissociated from effective traffic management. While there are some relevant provisions in the Bill, I call on Ministers to consider activating the provisions in part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 that would give local authorities powers to act on moving traffic offences. The Act is in statute, but the relevant section has not been activated. Local authorities repeatedly ask for it to be activated as it would be important in helping bus services.

[Mrs Villiers]

Does the hon. Lady agree about the importance of bus priority measures to make bus travel more reliable and therefore more attractive to passengers? Many local authorities are not prepared to make the quite courageous decisions required to deliver priority measures.

[Mrs Ellman]

The right hon. Lady makes an important point. Bus priority measures are indeed important; they are part of the range of measures available to local authorities when they are looking at how buses can be facilitated in their area and how to work with other traffic to make the best and most efficient use of road space.

The case for the Bill is clear, and the Select Committee welcomes it. We are pleased that it has come forward and very much welcome its comprehensive nature. Many of our communities suffer inadequate bus services. The existing regulatory framework is not fit for purpose, and previous efforts to restore it have not been comprehensive enough and have not been successful. The Bill makes important strides towards supporting bus networks throughout England, but more must be done to ensure that local communities and transport authorities have the information and powers that they need to provide effective bus services. This time, we must get it right. It is clear that we cannot afford another squandered opportunity for reform. I support the Bill, and it is supported by the Transport Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Jones]

I would be very happy to provide clarification. Throughout the development of the policies, we have been looking to protect workers who transfer in that way. We have put that right at the heart of our discussions in policy development, and I am happy to share that information with the hon. Gentleman and any other interested colleague.

Several hon. Members asked about this, so let me confirm once more that the decision about whether a case to proceed with franchising is compelling is entirely for the Mayor. We should perhaps thank the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) for sharing the news that he is a mayoral candidate—I do not think anybody knew that until today.

Hon. Members have talked about the guidance for consultations. Some guidance for mayoral combined authorities on establishing a case for franchising has been published, but let me be clear that it is still the Mayor who will take the decision. Our guidance merely aims to assist mayoral combined authorities in establishing a well-evidenced case—that is an important point.

Several colleagues asked what such a case might comprise, so let me add a little detail. We have a number of criteria that we would expect authorities that may be able to apply for franchising powers to demonstrate: that the authority has a clear plan to make bus services better for passengers; that the authority covers an area that is sufficiently wide to make franchising work in practice; that the authority has the powers to make franchising a success, which might mean control over parking or planning policy; that the authority has sufficiently strong governance arrangements in place; and that the authority has the resources and funding to deliver franchising successfully. Those are some of the criteria we will consider when looking, case by case, at which authorities will be able to apply for and secure franchising.

[Mrs Ellman]

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that Ministers will look on such applications in a positive light, rather than looking at the case made with a view to rejecting it?

[Andrew Jones]

I can confirm that. Our approach will be one of glass half full rather than glass half empty. We are not trying to get in the way of authorities or others that wish to improve their bus services. The whole point of the Bill is to provide a suite of enabling powers so that authorities can do what is right for their area to put more passengers on buses and provide better networks. We will certainly view all conversations positively.

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made clear, benefits for passengers will need to be at the heart of any authority’s application for franchising powers. Governance, geography and evidence will be critical if authorities are to apply successfully for franchising status. I do not agree with colleagues, including the hon. Members for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) and for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), who believe that bus franchising powers should be available to all authorities throughout England automatically.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs Villiers) recognised the very real risks to investment by bus operators that will be created if franchising powers are made automatically available to all local authorities, and the chilling effect that that might have on operators and bus manufacturers such as Wrightbus. I am aware of the quality of that business’s products. My right hon. Friend made her point clearly, drawing on her experience. I agree with the concerns highlighted, which is one reason why we will seek to reverse the changes made in the other place.

I assure my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West recognised, the Bill requires franchising authorities to consider how, in conducting their procurement process for franchising contracts, they will facilitate the involvement of small and medium-sized operators. We—and, I hope, every directly elected Mayor—want to ensure that such operators thrive if franchising is implemented. We have made that clear in the Bill.

I have been interested to hear the range of views about municipal bus companies. I agree with the hon. Member for Nottingham South and others who highlighted that those that have survived deliver great services to their passengers. I believe that there are seven municipal bus companies in England, and I saw one for myself yesterday on a visit to Reading. However, on the whole, private sector bus operators have delivered our local bus services for the past 30 years. We want to ensure that we strike the right balance, with commercial operators continuing to innovate and deliver good services for passengers.

The Bill provides local authorities with substantially more opportunities to influence the provision of local bus services in their area, whether through partnerships or franchising, and we are therefore still of the view that commissioning and the provision of services should be kept separate.

Many colleagues asked about rural services. Through franchising and partnership, the Bill will work for every area of the country—urban and rural. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Craig Tracey), who is a great champion of rural bus services, that the Bill’s partnership powers allow local authorities to work with operators to improve the co-ordination of services, for example to link bus and rail services more closely. A good example of that is under way in Cornwall, which is already working in partnership with operators to ensure that rural areas have bus links to key shopping or employment centres at the right times of day. That is a positive development, which already uses the powers in the Bill. The local operator has invested in its fleet and increased its profitability and patronage in the area.

Several authorities are also planning bus services alongside community transport services and other types of transport, such as home-to-school or patient transport, so that rural connectivity is maximised. That is the sort of innovation that we need across the country and that we are encouraging through our Total Transport pilot scheme, to which the hon. Member for Nottingham South referred. The Government are a strong supporter of community transport.

My hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton) was right to highlight clause 19. When routes are withdrawn, such as the 116 that my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire mentioned, we want local authorities to have the information they need to decide whether and how to provide replacement services. That is exactly what clause 19 aims to achieve.

I do not agree with the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside that bus routes should be designated as assets of community value. As the Government explained in our response to the Select Committee report, that would force operators to continue to operate a service for six months, potentially at huge cost, which could act as a disincentive for operators improving or maintaining services, especially in rural areas.

I should like to challenge the myth, which has been perpetrated in the debate by some colleagues, that bus services were flourishing before deregulation in the 1980s and that the decrease in bus passengers started at deregulation. I have gone back and looked at the data. In the 30 years between 1955 and 1985—30 years prior to deregulation—the number of passenger journeys on local bus services in Great Britain fell on average by 2% a year. Since deregulation, the fall has gradually reduced, at an average of just 0.2% a year. The number of passenger journeys fell from 15.5 billion in 1955 to 5.5 billion in 1985. One thing has been clear in the debate: all hon. Members want that trend reversed and for passenger numbers to increase.

Many colleagues mentioned buses and air quality. I have absolutely no doubt that buses can be a critical ingredient to improving an area’s air quality. As parts of a partnership or franchising area, authorities will be able to specify the emission standards of vehicles. In fact, the Government introduced amendments in the other place to make that clearer. We have supported and will continue to support bus companies with grants to encourage the take-up of low-emission vehicles. Low- emission buses are critical to putting in place good integrated transport systems with low emissions.

The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside mentioned the Traffic Management Act 2004. I agree that congestion is a problem that has an adverse impact on local bus services. However, the Government and I remain to be convinced about the case for giving all authorities the powers to install a raft of new cameras on yellow box junctions or elsewhere. In the past few days, I received a letter from a councillor who said that doing that would be a great idea because it would help with council revenue collection, which was exactly what we did not want to hear.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bath asked about tourist buses. As far as I am aware, any arrangements that are already in place can continue unchanged, but I will check that and write to him to confirm it.

We have covered many issues, but I am sure that my speech from the Dispatch Box and hon. Members’ comments have touched on only some of the issues that we will cover in Committee, which I look forward to. The Bill enables improvements where they are needed. It has also been clear from the speeches made by colleagues on both sides of the House that they have been thinking about how the new powers in the Bill will be used to improve services in their areas, which is great and exactly what we want.

The bus industry has made huge strides in making the experience of bus travel more attractive. Many buses have free wi-fi, as well as CCTV and USB charging points. The vast majority of buses are now accessible.

Last year, more than 4.65 billion bus passenger journeys were taken in this country, which was three times as many journeys as on the entire rail network. Buses are as relevant now as they have ever been. I see them playing a very important part in all our transport futures. All good public transport systems will have buses at their heart. There is no shortage of energy, effort and investment in the sector to support a growing bus industry. The purpose of the Bill is to continue that great work to the benefit of bus passengers, and I commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

BUS SERVICES BILL [LORDS] (PROGRAMME)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Bus Services Bill [Lords]:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 21 March 2017.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration and proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of any message from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

BUS SERVICES BILL [LORDS] (MONEY)

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Bus Services Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise:

(1) the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided; and

(2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

Business of the House (7 March)

Ordered,

That, at the sitting on Tuesday 7 March, the following shall apply to proceedings on the motion in the name of the Prime Minister relating to the Chair of the UK Statistics Authority and on the motion in the name of Mr David Lidington relating to Standing Orders (Public Business)—

(1) proceedings on each motion may be entered upon at any hour and may continue, though opposed, for one hour;

(2) the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of each motion not later than one hour after the commencement of proceedings on that motion;

(3) such Questions shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved; and

(4) Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.—(Michael Ellis.)

Use of Welsh Language in Parliamentary Proceedings

Resolved,

That this House—

(1) notes the Fourth Report of the Procedure Committee, HC 816, on Use of the Welsh language in the Welsh Grand Committee at Westminster, which builds on more than twenty years of use of the Welsh language in parliamentary proceedings in Wales and at Westminster;

(2) resolves that:—

(a) whilst English is and should remain the language of this House, the use of Welsh be permitted in parliamentary proceedings of Select Committees and of the Welsh Grand Committee held in Wales and at Westminster;

(b) reasonable notice, as determined by the Chair of the relevant committee, shall be given in advance of any proposed use of the Welsh language so as to allow the necessary arrangements to be made;

(c) the Chair shall have power to insist that points of order are made in English; and

(d) the Official Report shall record contributions made in the Welsh language together with their English translation; and

(3) accordingly rescinds the Resolution of 5 June 1996 (Language of Parliamentary Proceedings).—(Michael Ellis.)

Oral Answers to Questions

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am well aware that when a project of such national importance is constructed, it inevitably has an effect on some of those who live on the route. I reiterate that we will do everything we can to ensure that the process is as reasonable and fair as possible for those affected. With regard to local authorities, I give my right hon. Friend that assurance and repeat the assurances made in the debate on Monday by the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones). HS2 is putting service-level agreements in place with every single local authority along the line of route to set out the additional funding that we will make available for the new railway line’s construction process.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome Royal Assent being given to this much needed investment, but how will the Secretary of State ensure that the promises made about jobs and training opportunities during the construction of High Speed 2 actually materialise?

[Chris Grayling]

I take this very seriously. We have been very clear when letting contracts—most recently in the information that we put into the market about rolling stock—that we expect this project to leave a lasting skills footprint not just in the areas of construction but around the United Kingdom. A number of events have been held for potential suppliers to the project around the UK, and we have been very clear with all firms, both UK and international, that want to bid to be part of it that we expect them to leave that footprint. It is an essential part of the project.

Road Traffic Law Enforcement

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Second Report of the Transport Committee of Session 2015-16, Road traffic law enforcement, HC 518, and the Government response, HC 132.

Deaths on our roads have decreased over the past decade following sustained efforts to improve road safety. Nevertheless, in 2015, 1,730 people were killed on our roads and 22,144 seriously injured, many of them suffering life-changing consequences. That is the background against which the Select Committee on Transport carried out our inquiry into road traffic law enforcement. Our report was published in March 2016, and the Department responded in June.

There are three strands to road safety—education, engineering and enforcement—and they cut across Departments. Our report concentrates on enforcement, but inevitably touches on the other aspects. The National Police Chiefs Council told us that its task was to act in relation to the fatal four offences: inappropriate speed, drink and drug-driving, non-wearing of seat belts and driving while distracted, which mainly refers to the use of mobile phones but also involves other aspects.

Enforcement requires detection, which is implemented by a combination of specialist officers to apprehend offenders and the application of technology. Deterrence, which includes motorists’ perceptions of the likelihood of being caught, is an extremely important aspect of traffic law enforcement. Over the years, there has been greater reliance on technology than on specialist officers. We expressed great concern about the major reduction in specialised road policing officers, the number of whom fell from a full-time equivalent of 7,104 in 2005 to 4,356 by 2014. Between 2010 and 2014, there was a 23% decrease in their number. There are regional variations on those figures, reflecting the different decisions of the 43 separate police areas overseen by police and crime commissioners. They take their own individual decisions about what they think is operationally appropriate, but all of them do so in the context of deciding different priorities against a background of a reduction in spending. There is no Home Office guidance on the issue, so those decisions are taken in individual areas.

It is interesting to note that although overall detected traffic offences halved over that period, the number of offences related to causing death on the roads, which are always reported, did not fall. That leads to the question whether the reduction in reported offences means that driving standards have improved or that detection rates have fallen. It is an important question to ask. We ask that the Department assess the impact of that drastic reduction in specialist road police officers. It is an important matter that is often not recognised.

Speed can kill. Driving too fast for conditions was a contributory factor in 7,361 accidents in 2015, 167 of which were fatal and 1,380 of which caused serious injury. That represents 11% of all fatal accidents and 8% of serious accidents. Exceeding the speed limit was a contributory factor in 5,272 accidents, 222 of which were fatal, and 1,152 causing serious injury. That constitutes 15% of fatal accidents and 7% of serious accidents. Behind every one of those figures and each of those statistics lies a death or a life changed, perhaps forever.

Some 90% of fixed penalty notices imposed for breaking the speed limit were camera-detected. Speed cameras are frequently controversial. We listened to the experiences about speed cameras that have been put in different places, considered the various responses and concluded that it is important that cameras are placed where they can improve safety and that their financing is transparent, with excess revenues being invested in improving local road safety rather than financially benefiting the Exchequer or local councils. The financing for fixed speed cameras has changed in recent years. Recent changes have caused some local authorities and partnerships to remove such cameras, but they can be extremely important in improving safety, so there must be a proper assessment of where they are placed and how effective they are. We said that we felt the Road Safety Trust should review how the cameras are working and what is the most effective way to deploy them.

Motorists seem to regard penalties imposed for average speeds as fairer than those levied for speed at the moment when the camera flashes. We noted the growth of diversionary courses as an alternative to speeding penalties, with drivers paying for the courses. We asked a number of questions about those courses. We need to know much more about how effective they are. There should be more transparency about how they are financed, and more consistency in their availability across the country. Drivers pay to go on the courses, and they might pay different amounts in different areas; different courses are available in different policing and local authority areas, and it is not entirely clear how effective they are. We felt that a proper assessment should be made.

Although the Department told us that it was issuing guidance, and Highways England is also looking at the issue, it is not entirely clear what works best to make our roads safer. We felt that specialist officers should be deployed in areas where high speed causes fatalities, and that that should be combined with an educational campaign. In many areas, an educational campaign must go together with enforcement.

Recently, there has been a great deal of publicity about the horrendous deaths caused by drivers using handheld mobile phones, which falls under the category of distraction in vehicle. A driver using a handheld mobile phone was recorded as a contributory factor in 440 accidents in 2015, 22 of which were fatal and 75 of which involved serious injury. The wider category of distraction in vehicle was a contributory factor in 2,920 accidents, 61 of which were fatal and 384 of which caused serious injuries.

It is of great concern that fixed penalty notices for using a handheld mobile phone while driving have decreased by 90% from 167,000 in 2006 to fewer than 17,000 in 2015. The Government now state that they are planning tougher penalties, which is welcome, but those penalties will be effective only if drivers believe that they will get caught for using their handheld phone.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I saw the statistics that my hon. Friend has just cited about the 90% reduction. Could the Committee identify what caused that reduction? When I read that, I could not believe it was an accurate figure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend’s comments are extremely important. It seems to be about a reduction in detection rates and in officers on the roads, which is of great concern to us. When we spoke to police who gave evidence to our inquiry, they told us that they felt the use of handheld mobile phones was an important factor in relation to road safety—perhaps an even more serious one than drinking and driving. The issue must be flagged up as one of great concern on which further action needs to be taken.

Since the publication of our report, I have been approached by people with proposals for using technology to both deter and prevent the use of handheld mobile phones when driving. Some of the proposals were extremely interesting, including a proposal for technology that would switch off the possibility of using a handheld mobile phone while the car was in motion, except for emergency needs. Another proposal referred to technology to detect the use of a mobile phone while somebody was driving. Some of the people who spoke to me were going to meet Ministers to discuss the matter further. I urge the Minister to look at how technology can be used to make progress in this area. It is horrendous when we hear of people being killed—people in cars or pedestrians at the side of the road—because of a driver being distracted by a handheld mobile phone. It is a very serious matter. We should not wait for the statistics that I read out to increase so that the problem becomes even more evident than it is already. Such an important issue should be addressed.

Pedal cyclists and motorcyclists are vulnerable road users. In 2015, 100 cyclists were killed on the roads and more than 3,000 were seriously injured. In the same year, 365 motorcyclists were killed and more than 5,000 seriously injured. One of the concerns raised by cyclists who gave evidence in our inquiry was the lack of enforcement of traffic laws and the lack of consistency in reporting near misses—accidents that almost happened. It should always be remembered that for a cyclist, a near miss could mean near death. There does not seem to be consistency in applying road traffic laws in relation to cyclists, and there is no proper national collation of what happens in such incidents, so we call on the Department to investigate and try to get national information about what is happening in different places. That is extremely important.

There are also issues to do with the Department’s actions in relation to local authorities, which should be given the power to enforce civil regulations in moving traffic. The decriminalisation of parking offences shows what role local authorities can play. Enforcing civil regulations in moving traffic includes enforcing laws with regard to bus lanes, one-way systems and ignoring box junction markings. It is regrettable that the Department has again refused to activate part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004. It is not clear why the Government keep refusing, despite repeated requests. We were told that there was no call for it, but that is not correct because local authorities, among others, repeatedly ask for the measure to be activated. The provision is already has already been passed into law, so I would be grateful for further information from the Minister on why the Departments feels it cannot implement that part of the Act. It has already been agreed to, and it would have significant implications for local road management, for road safety and for the saving of lives.

Drinking and driving do not mix. Drivers impaired by alcohol contributed to 4,788 accidents in 2015; 126 of those were fatal and 1,120 caused serious injuries. It is important that information is gathered on whether drivers involved in accidents who have been drinking but are below the legal limit are in fact impaired in their driving. If that information is not gathered at the moment, it should be. It might help us come to a reasoned assessment of whether the limits should be changed. It is also important that the impact of other jurisdictions’ decisions to lower the legal limit be assessed so that we can find out what impact that has made.

Wearing seat belts is extremely important. It is of great concern to know that 22% of car occupants who were killed in 2015 were not wearing seat belts. A major education campaign is required. Since 2014, cars sold in Europe have to have visual and audio warnings about seat belts. However, that applies to new cars, and it will take a long time for that to have an effect on our roads, so I call for a major campaign on that. It could be done simply and could save lives.

Heavy goods vehicles and road freight present their own challenges. The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency’s use of technology and its intelligence-based approach bring real benefits. Joint working in London and the south-east is particularly impressive. We saw how impressive that was in London. It is important that random checks are not abandoned, because they matter as well. The London safer lorry scheme should be assessed for wider application.

Issues surrounding the use of EU cross-border directives when non-UK drivers commit offences must be resolved. There has been a problem in that UK traffic law is based on charging the driver of a vehicle rather than the registered keeper, whereas the directive focuses on the keeper. The Government have been trying to resolve that issue, and we were told it would be resolved by May 2017. It is unclear how Brexit might affect that issue. What progress has been made in dealing with it? Again, this is to do with saving lives.

Penalties must be seen to be fair and consistent. When drivers are found to have been breaking road traffic laws, they should feel that the process is fair and that they were not simply caught in a random way. Since 2013, police officers have been able to issue fixed penalty notices for careless and inconsiderate driving offences. Specialist officers should be visible and act consistently in different parts of the country.

Road traffic law enforcement is essential, as our report has shown. It is, however, part of a wider approach to road safety, including not only enforcement but education and engineering. Those three strands must work together, cutting across Government Departments. The welcome reduction in casualties over the past decade has come about because the Department has given road safety a consistent focus over many years and different Departments have worked together. The Minister has already indicated that he will act on some aspects of our report, and I welcome the interest and commitment that he has shown. I call on him to explain what further steps he will take to reduce the number of people who die or are maimed on our roads, and how he will work with other Departments and local government to achieve that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Ellman]

This is very much ongoing business. I thank all hon. Members present for the important comments that they have made, and I thank members of the Select Committee, who have contributed so well—particularly the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) who, as hon. Members will have heard, made insightful and informed comments. We will continue to work together. I say to the Minister that resources are needed to make progress, and that a cross-departmental approach is required. If it is Government policy not to have targets, how will we know whether sufficient progress has been made? The Transport Committee will continue to pursue all of these issues.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the Second Report of the Transport Committee of Session 2015-16, Road traffic law enforcement, HC 518, and the Government response, HC 132.

Airport Capacity and Airspace Policy

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is a long-awaited and welcome statement. Heathrow is the right place for expansion to link with emerging markets—that is essential for our future economic success. How can the Secretary of State convince us that this really will be an integrated transport policy and that, at the same time as developing links with emerging markets, it will address critical issues of environmental concern, including air pollution? What can he do to convince us that that indeed will happen?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Lady makes two points. On connectivity, the plans for improved rail access around Heathrow will completely transform it as an integrated hub. The connectivity that HS2 will bring to Old Oak Common, Crossrail, the expanded Piccadilly line and the connectivity that south-west rail access will bring into Heathrow itself will mean it is much more of an accessible integrated transport centre than it has been, and there will be regional connectivity as well.

On pollution, as I have said, we had detailed analysis from the Airports Commission and, since then, from independent consultants. The Government’s judgment is that this expansion is deliverable within air quality rules but, as I have just said, we have a big task in this country to address the much broader issue of air quality. We cannot simply sit with the status quo until the middle of the next decade when this runway opens; we need to have made a big impact before then.

Oral Answers to Questions

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Thursday 12th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Paul Maynard]

We had to delay 26 Access for All projects into control period 6, one of which was, unfortunately, Alfreton, because the project there was less developed than others we were considering. Nevertheless, I can reassure my hon. Friend that I am making it clear to Network Rail that I expect the improvements to be delivered early in control period 6, after 2019.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister recognise the importance of the maximum number of people being able to use our rail services? Why are schemes such as Access for All seen as expendable?

[Paul Maynard]

I certainly do not agree that they are regarded as expendable. We have reached a point at which roughly 70% of passenger journeys are from step-free access stations, of which there are roughly 450 throughout the network. The hon. Lady wrote to me regarding a station in her constituency, and I have asked my officials to look into that more closely to make sure we fully understand what has occurred there. I hope to reply to her soon.

Rail Infrastructure (Train Operating Companies)

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend, who has great experience in such matters, is absolutely right. Right now, the incentives for team members in Network Rail are different from those in train operators. The incentive across the entire railway network should be to do a better job for the customer. Part of that process will involve aligning incentives so that everyone has the right motivation to deliver for the people who matter: the customers.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

A joined-up approach could bring benefits and has been called for on many occasions by, among others, the Transport Committee. How will safety be protected in the specific model that the Transport Secretary now advocates? Could it be the beginning of a highly expensive fragmentation of the system?

[Chris Grayling]

The opposite is the case. This is not about fragmentation; it is about joining up. As the hon. Lady will know, we have various teams on the ground across our railways, some looking after the track and some looking after the trains. Sometimes they work together well, but sometimes they do not. By creating a structure that shapes teams on the ground, which involves decentralisation within Network Rail of the kind recommended by Nicola Shaw and the sort of partnerships that Sir Roy McNulty recommended, we will reach a place, about which the hon. Lady has talked in the past, where we have a more joined-up railway that does a better job for the customer.

Southern Rail

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Paul Maynard]

My hon. Friend is entirely right to point out the grossly disproportionate nature of this industrial action and that communities across the GTR network are experiencing a poorer quality of life because of this unwarranted industrial action.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

The overall situation for passengers—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The shadow Secretary of State must take some sort of soothing medicament, which will have the effect of calming him. He will be aware that I suggested to one of his north-east colleagues some time ago that it might be advisable to take up yoga, because it would have a therapeutic effect.

[Mr Speaker]

Or even yogurt.

[Mrs Ellman]

The overall situation for passengers, caused by a variety of reasons, is intolerable, yet GTR is receiving £1 billion a year in fees and the Department is exposed to £38 million of lost revenue. What can the Department do to resolve this situation?

[Paul Maynard]

Some months ago, as the hon. Lady will be aware, we asked Chris Gibb to look into the operation of the network, the infrastructure and the train operating company. We look forward to receiving his report by the end of the year, which will guide us in the decisions we take in the new year as to how to make rapid, noticeable, identifiable improvements in this network.

Exiting the EU and Transport

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is a welcome and timely debate. Transport is vital to all that we do, whether it be the functioning of our economy or people engaging in a good life. It matters to everything we do, but there has been little discussion in public or in Parliament about the implications for transport of our exit from the European Union. In this short debate, I want to flag up a number of issues where there are concerns, some of which have gone unanswered. I shall also seek some further information from the Minister about how these issues are being addressed.

At the beginning of the debate, the Secretary of State made some fairly anecdotal remarks about how he was dealing with some of the issues of concern that have been raised. He referred to meetings that he has had with Ministers at conferences and said that he hoped to meet the President-elect of the USA shortly to discuss some of these issues with him. However, there is a more basic question.

Yes, there are big questions about how the negotiations might be conducted and what the Government’s objectives might be, but one key question is whether the negotiations on transport will be conducted in their own right or only as part of much wider negotiations, so that nothing agreed for transport will be finalised until there is agreement on all the issues involved in our leaving the EU. I have not heard that question properly discussed, but it is an issue of concern. Some transport issues might appear to be negotiated, but they could somehow be lost or given away as part of some bigger negotiation where other factors are under discussion. That is a fundamental issue and I would like to hear more answers from the Government about that. Providing an answer to that question is not really giving away a negotiating position; it is telling us how seriously the Government as a whole view transport issues. It might provide a guide on how far we should pursue some of the matters that have been raised today and that are likely to be raised again.

Members have talked about how different sectors of transport—road, rail, air and sea—might be affected. I shall come on to some of those later. There are also important cross-cutting matters to which very little attention has been given when it comes to Brexit. What of passengers’ rights, for example? Complex compensation packages are being negotiated in Europe, and I believe that one of them was either finalised recently or is nearing completion. It is not at all clear how that would affect British citizens. Would they be covered by those compensation packages, now or in the future? We simply do not know.

What about security matters? Reference has been made to cross-channel transport, of which security is an important aspect. How will that be affected? We have heard little about it. Environmental issues are very broad, but they certainly include transport. How will that affect us?

During the Transport Committee’s recent investigation of the Volkswagen scandal, attention was focused on vehicle type approval, the European system for assessing vehicles in terms of their environmental impact, performance and safety. Although the Volkswagen episode—the Volkswagen scandal;—I must keep using that word, because a scandal is what it was—did highlight some deficiencies in the system, it is important to recognise the importance of having a cross-European system for vehicle type approval. There might be a need to strengthen or change it in certain ways, but having it does matter. How would we be affected in that regard? Would the United Kingdom still be involved? Would we still be party to the system? Would we be partners in it, influencing what happened? Again, we simply do not know.

The question of accessibility to transport for disabled people has been raised briefly, in relation to the blue badge scheme. That scheme, which is very effective and very important here, has a European counterpart. What would happen to that? Has any thought been given to the issue, and has there been any discussion about it? There is a wider question. European directives call for proper access to buses, coaches and trains for disabled people to be implemented by 2020, and European legislation has driven improvements in their access to public transport. Will we still be involved in that, or will the United Kingdom decide that there is some get-out clause so that we do not have to continue to give proper attention to the matter? I hear little about that in the public arena.

Sometimes we are all so involved in talking about the major strategic issues—which are, of course, extremely important—that we forget about the practical issues, but they must not be lost. One way of ensuring that they are not lost in discussions about many other issues is to keep raising them in the House and, indeed, elsewhere.

A number of Members have drawn attention to the aviation sector, which in itself illustrates the importance of the possible impact on the sector of our exit from the European Union, and the importance of the sector itself. Aviation is vital to the economy as a whole, and to business and tourism specifically. In 2015, UK aviation transported 251 million passengers and contributed £1 billion a week to the UK economy, and it supports 1 million jobs. It is not just about transport, either. It is about skills, development, and a wide range of employment. It is literally a gateway to Europe and to the world. The UK currently has agreements to fly with 155 countries, 42 of which have air services agreements through our membership of the EU. That arrangement is critical. What will happen to it?

There are three broad areas of concern relating to aviation that require proper negotiation and a proper solution, rather than the uncertainty that currently hovers over the whole issue, causing great concern in the aviation sector and among the people employed in it. First, the single European aviation market allows EU registered airlines to have a base in another EU state and operate services between other member states and within them. It promotes growth and has reduced fares. It is critical. There may be an answer to what will happen to that as an alternative to our current arrangements. Are we going to consider joining the European common aviation area—we would be able to do that—or is the answer bilateral agreements? We simply do not know, and not knowing causes great uncertainty. It will affect business decisions being made by airlines now about where they want to locate. These are critical decisions about aviation and the people employed in the sector.

[Drew Hendry]

On business indecision, does the hon. Lady agree that businesses are openly saying that they are having difficulty now with their business plans and are absolutely terrified of getting no forward vision from the UK Government about how things are going to work in the future, which is impacting directly on investment?

[Mrs Ellman]

I do agree. That is a key area of discussion within the aviation sector. It is why it is so critical that this is addressed. There is great uncertainty. There might be a solution, but we need to move further on it.

The second area of concern within the aviation sector is the transatlantic aviation agreement, and particularly the EU-US open skies policy agreed in 2007. There are many aspects to that, including that EU airlines can operate to the US from any point in the EU. EU airlines can also lease aircraft to US airlines for use on international routes from the United States to any third country. That was opposed for a long time by the US authorities, but it is now agreed and it is extremely important not just for aviation itself but for this country and—I go back to the common theme of my speech—for employment in the sector and the retention of high-level skills. Will this agreement continue? The general view appears to be that it will, as it is too valuable and important to everyone for it not to continue, but again there is uncertainty. Is that being addressed?

The third aspect of concern is European airspace strategy. The use of airspace is critical and too often when we talk about aviation and runway capacity we do not think properly about airspace strategy. That matters, however; it matters in terms of efficiency and the environment. Capacity and efficiency have been added through having the single European sky. Will that continue in its current form? Will it be part of the negotiating process? Will the functional air blocks—UK and Ireland—be retained? How will this operate? It seems to be so critical that it has to carry on, but in what form, and how will the UK be involved?

I wanted to flag up those three areas of concern. They are well known—I am not saying they are being ignored—but my plea is that we need to know what progress is being made.

Ports are vital because 90% of the UK’s trade goes by sea, and the EU is the UK’s largest single trading partner. Yes, there are global markets and the maritime sector is global as well as European, but Europe is extremely important to it. It cannot be looked at in isolation. Access to the single European market is important to the maritime sector. What impact will discussions on that have on discussions about the ports and the maritime sector? How will changes in access to the single market affect shipping with Europe? Will there be new and complex tariffs? Will there be customs checks? How will transmodal movements be affected? Will there be complexity in paperwork, tariffs and customs? Nobody knows what is going to happen. Some solution has to be found as soon as possible, and the sector needs to know what is happening. We have had silence on these matters for much too long.

There are many other transport issues involved in our exit from the EU that are causing great concern. I have identified just these few issues today because they are critical to the UK’s future. They are important for our trade, for jobs and for the retention of skills, and I urge the Government to get more involved in those sectors and give us more information about what is happening. These transport issues might not be flagged up in the newspapers every day, but they matter a great deal to our economy and to the people of the UK.