Football Governance Bill [HL]

Lord Moynihan Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I wish all noble Lords a happy new year, because this is the first time I have been here. I wish that my noble friend Lord Parkinson was joining us here instead of being in the Caribbean, from where he sends his best wishes. I really appreciate the time, effort and work that the noble Lord, Lord Birt, has put into this, although I am not sure about his statistic that 40% of the best players worldwide play in the Premier League. I would be interested in understanding where that statistic comes from, particularly as there seemed to be a Liverpool bias in that statistic.

The point behind all this, as the noble Lord said, is that a redistribution power gives unprecedented power to a regulator—unlike any other regulator in the country. As noble Lords have heard me say before, you do not see the FCA giving money from one bank to another or Ofwat giving from one water company to another. This has to be at odds with what the Sports Minister said just today—that they were looking to put in place a light-touch regulator. Instead, they are giving the regulator more powers than any other regulator in the country, which feels as if it is going in the opposite direction. The amendments in the second group seek to address that by suggesting that maybe we should not have those redistribution powers. But given a scenario in which we have those powers, the noble Lord has tried to set out a thorough and well thought-out process that is designed to foster compromise and avoid gaming. That is my concern about this.

I particularly appreciate the amendment on the criteria for settlement, which would make sure that there is a wider set of criteria in all this—looking to the competitive nature, audience appeal and continued investment. Without that, you are really just asking the expert panel to go back to the original objectives of the Bill, which are very simple and talk only about the financial resilience of the league, safeguarding heritage and financial soundness. There is a very easy way in which to achieve all those things, pointing the expert panel to saying that whichever suggestion gives the most money is going to achieve that, without having any other objectives. We could say, “Hang on a moment; going with the one that gives the most money does not at all take into account the appeal of the Premier League or the competitive nature of it all—it just makes sure that it is financially sound by giving it as much money as possible”. That cannot be right, but that is what we are setting up the regulator to do, if those are the only criteria and measures that it has to guide by. That is why I appreciate the wider set of measures set out in the amendment, which is very much a guide to how to do that, similar to the amendments tabled by my noble friend Lord Parkinson, which are in my name as well, on having a financial investment duty on the regulator in deciding any final proposal.

I also support Amendment 297F, which is about putting in place a proper appeals process. It is about getting as sensible, thorough and transparent a process as possible, and I look forward to hearing from the Minister how the Government would look to take on board these sensible provisions.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

Before the Minister responds, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Birt, who sat through many hours of Committee and held his council until this moment, when he has made some very forceful and powerful points geared specifically towards having a co-operative, thoughtful and collaborative response to mediation. The legislation at present is not like that; it is divisive and nuclear, to use two of the words that the noble Lord used. This is one area where there can be agreement across the Committee, and I hope that there will be agreement from the Minister that we can return on Report to look at this, so that we can be more in line with other regulatory mechanisms for mediation. None is as divisive and polarised as the one in the Bill, and I very much hope that the support will be universal for the noble Lord, Lord Birt. I am grateful to him for the thought that he has given to this.

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab)]

Will the noble Lord acknowledge that you can have mediation only if both sides are willing to participate? What we have seen from the Premier League in recent years is that it is not willing to do that.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I disagree with the noble Baroness on that. Through the history of the backstop powers and the parachute payments, this has been subject to consistent and constructive negotiations. Some negotiations are tougher than others; there is no doubt that in recent months and the last couple of years there have been examples of both sides failing to reach an agreement. I do not believe that putting this regulatory pressure into a binary system is going to resolve that. Yes, negotiations are tough and are frequently going to lead to detailed iterations before a satisfactory position is reached—but the last round of negotiations in particular was very close to reaching an agreement. I do not believe that the imposition of regulatory pressure is going to resolve that beneficially for the future of the Premier League, or indeed the EFL, at all.

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

My Lords, before the noble Lord completely finishes his point and before we get to the Minister, from whom I think we all want to hear on this, does he accept that there has not been any progress in negotiations for 18 months? That is a very long time. The Premier League has to come somewhere close to where the EFL is if there is to be some sort of progress, and there has been no progress in that time—so I am not sure that the noble Lord is right.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I am equally keen to sit down so that we can hear the Minister respond. I was party to the letter from the EFL and to the reply from the noble Baroness, who set out clearly the steps taken during these negotiations, and it is simply not true to say that over the past 12 months no progress has been made. I hope that the noble Lord will agree that the proposal made by the noble Lord, Lord Birt, is a far more efficient, professional and collaborative way in which to make progress, and I very much hope that the Minister will echo that in her response.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

My Lords, my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, is that the experience in litigation over recent years is that a requirement on parties to acrimonious disputes to mediate does often ensure a consensual settlement of disputes that seemed unable to be resolved—the formal process of mitigation. I declare, as I always do, my interests as counsel to Manchester City in disciplinary proceedings. I am a season ticket holder at Arsenal. I am interested to hear that the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, is in the Caribbean; I had intended to go to the Emirates Stadium tonight to see Arsenal play Tottenham Hotspur, but I decided, on the basis of their recent form, that it would be far more entertaining to listen to the noble Lord, Lord Birt, and other noble Lords.

I just make two points about the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Birt. I agree that they deserve close attention and I look forward to hearing from the Minister. The first is on Amendment 297A, on the appointment of a mediator. The noble Lord proposes that the person to be appointed must have held high judicial office. I say to him that, based on my experience, the best mediators are not necessarily those who have been judges. A mediator is not deciding anything; a mediator needs empathy and the ability to build a relationship of trust with the warring parties. I therefore respectfully suggest to the noble Lord that he may want to think about that point.

The second point that I raise with the noble Lord and the Committee is on his Amendment 297F. If I have understood his scheme correctly, there is a mediation stage, then there is an arbitration stage and then the ability for either party who is dissatisfied with the arbitration to take the matter to the Competition Appeal Tribunal. I point out to noble Lords that it is customary, where there is arbitration, that the power to take a matter that has been consensually arbitrated to a court or tribunal is very limited. That is the whole point of arbitration; it is to reduce the possibilities of further lengthy and expensive proceedings. The Arbitration Act, in most circumstances, limits the ability to go to court or to another tribunal thereafter to very specific and limited grounds. Again, the noble Lord may want to give thought to that.

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Moved by

[Lord Moynihan]

327: After Clause 85, insert the following new Clause—
“Review: cost of complianceWithin six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a review of the financial impact on regulated clubs of complying with the provisions in this Act.”

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[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, I am very pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has just returned. He will be in an exceptionally good mood as his club has just gone 2-1 up with about a minute to spare before half-time. That will put him in a good mood to support my amendment.

Amendment 327 was tabled in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Maude, who is abroad on business and apologises for not being with us this evening. It is a straightforward, simple amendment, which I hope will have support from the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor. She and I have both been concerned about the potential financial impact of the Bill, particularly on clubs in the EFL. Pursuant to her earlier intervention, I am here not on the EFL side or the Premier League side but genuinely to look at the legislation and make sure that good legislation comes out of our deliberations.

One of the areas of particular concern is the cost. This is new; it is the first time it has happened not just in this country but anywhere in Europe for a sport. It is novel, and that word is used quite extensively in the Government’s impact assessment. It is important, therefore, to have an opportunity in Parliament to consider the costs of setting up the regulator and the initial costs of regulation. That is why Amendment 327 proposes:

“Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a review of the financial impact on regulated clubs of complying with the provisions in this Act”.


That will give us an opportunity to consider whether it is massively inflated in comparison with the expectations set out in the impact assessment or if there are cost savings. I think the noble Baroness is about to intervene, so I am happy to give way.

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab)]

I am about to intervene. The noble Lord is somewhat optimistic in thinking that everything can be revealed within six months. I will make a broader point, which we are not specifically discussing tonight. The role of Parliament in holding regulators to account is where many of these considerations could usefully come in.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point but, in the context of this, I think her first point was even more relevant. Perhaps at a later stage, more than six months would be appropriate; maybe a year would be appropriate. Either way, it is appropriate that Parliament has a look at the costs of implementation, not least because there will be views among parliamentarians about where that burden should fall, and whether it should fall on some of the EFL clubs that might find it difficult to afford those costs of following this legislation. It is interesting that the French regulator who covers professional football confirmed yesterday that he has five staff to do the job that we are looking to cover with this substantial regulation. He also has 18 volunteers from the leagues, including the French FA, who make up their boards and committees to do the work that we have been considering so far in Committee.

The reason for moving this amendment is the concern about the uncertainty of the additional costs to be imposed on all 116 clubs as a result of the financial regulations set out in this Bill. I am not going to go into the details of questioning each and every figure, because that would be inappropriate, but I think it is worth looking at areas of the impact assessment that lead me to worry about the potential increase in costs that this could result in, not least because there is no estimate of litigation costs involved with the regulator, and we have heard that there is quite a lot of potential litigation that could be flowing as a result of the role of the regulator.

Initially, these litigation costs in the Bill will be funded through fines and interest as a first recourse, and that is set out Clause 96; but the further costs to cover litigation would come via the levy—in other words, come via the clubs themselves, and not be a burden on the taxpayer. That could lead to perverse incentives when it comes to the advocacy-first proportionate enforcement model. The legal costs should not be underestimated when you bear in mind that in the last financial year the Premier League had some £40 million-worth of legal costs alone. We should add to that the potential for legal costs associated with what we have been discussing this evening. I hope they do not come to fruition, but it is perfectly possible that they might, with parachute payments and the backstop.

In the context of trying to establish a cost base for clubs and the government regulator, it is really important that we look in detail at the impact assessment. It addresses costs in three buckets: familiarisation costs of £400,000 to £1.2 million, covering the one-off costs to business occurring in the first year of the appraisal period; compliance costs, which potentially go up to £35.8 million over the 10-year appraisal, which are the ongoing costs to business following the first year of the appraisal period; and then the operational costs, which are significantly higher. While these operational costs will initially be funded by the Exchequer before an industry levy is introduced, the costs will subsequently be clawed back from all clubs.

The role of the regulator and the work required by clubs is based on the belief that professional football in this country is in crisis and requires government intervention to sort it out. The legislation addresses what it has set out to be perverse incentives and misaligned owner motivations which have resulted in excessive risk taking in pursuit of sporting success and promotion. Those are quotes and they are meat to any lawyer immediately before this Bill is even on the statute book. Ultimately, the Government argue that this has resulted in market failure, despite the Premier League being the most successful football league in the world and the Championship the sixth-richest in Europe. However, the Government have ignored that and believe, as is clearly set out in the impact assessment, that government intervention is necessary to correct market failure.

There are complete sections on the problems that the Government believe have led to this market failure. Briefly, in 1.2.1 on page 9, the Government believe there is a perverse incentive for clubs to overreach financially. I anticipate that will be challenged. Paragraph 1.2.2 states that inequitable distribution across the English football pyramid has exacerbated poor financial and operational management. Paragraph 1.2.3 states that unsustainable financial management exists, in the view of the Government. Paragraph 1.2.4 covers poor operational management where financial mismanagement has been exacerbated by poor-quality operational management and decision-making at clubs. That is quite a statement to address towards professional football clubs in this country.

Paragraph 1.2.5 states that clubs will need to spend more to

“take into account the interests of fans/communities”,

which currently they do not sufficiently consider. But the impact assessment does not set out how much this is, or make costs, or rectify any of the other broken aspects of professional football that I have outlined this evening. It argues that the existing regulations have “proved ineffective” and it states that the

“free market will not rectify the football industry’s problems”.

In paragraphs 1.3.2 and 1.3.5, it says that

“market failure has large spillover impacts on society”,

which it does not cost.

In paragraph 1.7.5, the FA is blamed, with the Government concluding that,

“given the inaction of the leagues and the FA, the preferred option is to establish a new statutory independent regulator rather than industry self regulation or a light touch intervention”.

That is somewhat at odds with what the Minister was saying, because she argued quite strongly that light-touch regulation was what was sought—but in the impact assessment it is made clear that the Government favours having an independent regulator rather than

“industry self regulation or a light touch intervention”.

If it is not to be light-touch intervention and it is to be heavy intervention, that will incur significant costs, and it is not clear at all what those costs will be.

This is important, because the Government are rejecting in this document light-touch intervention on the French model for comprehensive state-controlled regulation, which will cost all clubs substantial internal costs and legal costs, potentially with the cost of lawyers and outside advisers for sure, to comply with the tasks outlined in the Bill, since all clubs will need to be licensed and meet in detail all the requirements in this lengthy and comprehensive legislation. To believe that this can be done for £40 million a year under preferred option 4 over the coming 10 years is, to be quite honest, fanciful. It ignores the legal costs and the club operating and compliance costs for all 116 clubs, and it ignores potential litigation costs. It beggars belief to believe that the total central estimate for familiarisation to the clubs and leagues associated with option 4 is £800,000, or £7,000 a club on average. The compliance costs outlined in paragraph 211 are estimated at £100,000 per annum for Premier League clubs and £60,000 for all remaining clubs. I do not see for the life of me how that is possible.

However, at least the Government have added the rider that familiarisation compliance costs “may be underestimated” and that

“this is a novel and high profile area”.

It certainly is that. So, the Government suggest,

“clubs may pay more attention and buy in high-end specialist advice”.

But high-end specialist advice does not come for £7,000 a club per annum.

However, all this is predicated on the most important paragraph, paragraph 289, towards the conclusion of the impact assessment, which states:

“The Regulator will be legally prohibited from intervening in football (e.g. spend on players) or commercial (e.g. ticket price) activities, thus limiting the potential risk of deterring investment”.


We have spent dozens of hours looking into the fact that there will be detailed and intrusive activities by the regulator—understandably, to fulfil the legal requirements of this Bill. Far from not being interventionist in football, the regulator will in fact be legally required to intervene in the running of all aspects of the financing of football, including external factors such as season ticket prices and other ticket prices, in its overview of the finances of all clubs. There is nothing on the finances of the clubs in this legislation that is exempt from the consideration of the regulator, if he or she should wish to look at that in the context of fulfilling their functions under the legislation.

What it should say, as I say, is that the regulator is legally required to intervene in the running of all aspects of football—and, if that is the case, there is a whole different scenario for the costs involved for all clubs. I am not talking about just Premier League clubs or EFL clubs—I am talking about all clubs. That is why I would hope that there would be an opportunity to review the costs at six months—or it could be year—because this is the first time this has ever occurred in sport in this country. It is indeed the first time that it has ever occurred in football in the European Union, or indeed in any international body that I know of.

The statement that I have just made underpins the whole cost structure and sits uncomfortably with paragraph 298 of the impact assessment, which provides for the regulator to enter business premises in conjunction with an investigation or an actual or suspected breach of a club’s licence conditions in any form with its powers of search and seizure and the power to require specified persons to attend an interview. Given the likely cost of this intrusive legislation, I believe it is important to write into the Bill a review of the financial impact on regulated clubs of complying with its provisions, so that football fans can regularly review the true costs of government-led regulation. I beg to move.

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[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

That is a helpful clarification. The figure remains one that I do not recognise. I will go away and cross-reference with officials why I have now been told that it is not one that we recognise and is above the level we expect. I know I have committed to come back to noble Lords with a number of costs, and we can clarify that at the same point before Report.

I understand that Amendment 329 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, is a natural consequence of the noble Lord’s Amendment 19 in relation to the specified competitions, and it certainly would have made more sense to debate it then. Nevertheless, as we discussed at length previously, we understand the desire to have upfront clarity in the Bill as to which competitions will initially be in scope of the regulator’s regime.

However, as I explained during our previous debates on this issue, the Government believe the approach taken to defining the scope of the regime in the Bill is the right one. It delivers the effect intended, closing any loopholes that would allow avoidance of the regime, while also allowing for agility to respond to any potential changes in the structure of the football pyramid.

On the merits of Amendment 329, we completely agree that the Secretary of State’s power to define the competitions in scope and to amend this scope in the future should be subject to the affirmative parliamentary procedure. This will ensure that Parliament can scrutinise this important decision properly. That is why the Bill as currently drafted achieves this already in Clause 91(3)(a)(i). However, as we cannot accept the noble Lord’s Amendment 19, which was withdrawn, we cannot accept this consequential Amendment 329 either.

For the reasons I have set out, I hope the noble Lords will not press the amendments.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I am very grateful to noble Lords who have participated in this debate. I think it has been one of the best debates we have had in Committee. I particularly highlight the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Birt, which is very relevant to the amendment. There is a huge difference in costs between light-touch regulation that is effective and appropriate and what he has identified in the 125 pages of this overcomplex and bureaucratic legislation —let alone the secondary legislation that will flow from it. If it becomes overcomplex and bureaucratic, it becomes expensive.

To get that balance right, which was an important point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, we need regulation. But football is regulated. The FA is the core regulator of both professional and amateur football in England. It has been absolutely absent from this debate. It has said nothing, to the detriment of its reputation as the national governing body of football in England. It is very sad that it has had nothing to say and no opinion. It is there to protect the autonomy of football and really should have come to the table and provided us with its thoughts. Indeed, I know that some noble Lords have written to the FA to ask it for a briefing on the Bill, and the FA’s response has been that it does not have a view on the Bill. We have no briefing. That is exceptionally sad.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

Does that not tell the Committee something about the lamentable quality of regulation that the FA currently provides?

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

Without a shadow of a doubt. My criticism is of the FA and its inability to be the core regulator for a professional sport. Indeed, in an earlier intervention this evening, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, alluded to the fact that we need this Bill because we need a regulator to oversee solutions that would occur. I would have intervened on him, if I had not been eagerly awaiting the ministerial response, to point out that the FA should have been first and foremost in that role. It is sad and regrettable that it has not been.

I will briefly touch on other points that have been made. Of course, for the senior clubs in the Premier League this will be a burden, but less of a burden proportionate to the clubs that the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and I are worried about in terms of cost. UEFA compliance is onerous, for example, and much of the compliance that UEFA imposes on clubs will need to be replicated. Clubs will need to look at it carefully to see whether there is overlap. My principal concern has been one shared with the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, at an earlier stage in this Committee: how much is this going to cost?

The amendment purely looks to try to resolve that question. There is an argument that it would not need to come before Parliament but can simply be published by the regulator, drawing on information from clubs. Indeed, the regulator will have to do that, but given the huge scope in potential cost that ranges from light-touch regulation to invasive regulation, along with the length of the Bill and the associated costs, it is appropriate that Parliament reviews that. Whether that is after six months or longer—as the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, said—either way it is important. It is a one-off opportunity. After that, we will have the regulator reporting and the relevant reports coming towards Parliament.

The Minister, who has worked exceptionally hard and could not have been more helpful to Members of the Committee at all stages, said, having been handed a note from her Box—that has not been too frequent, which is to her credit as throughout this Committee she has relied very little on the Box for additional information—that the impact assessment has been based on similar regulators. There is no similar regulator in the world of sport, let alone the world of football. It is simply not possible to do that. The impact assessment is the reason I am so worried about the costs. It says:

“The proposed intervention is a bespoke, sophisticated and evidenced-based regulatory framework”.


The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, will recognise that phrase. That is exactly the quality of advocacy I would expect from him on any occasion—bespoke, sophisticated and evidence-based—but I might suggest that it does not come particularly lightly on the purse.

As a result, the costs associated with having that regulatory regime might be very considerable, especially when the very same paragraph states that the regulator, in the view of the Government,

“will be legally prohibited from intervening in football … or commercial … activities, thus limiting the potential risk of deterring investment”.

That is exactly the opposite of what the Bill sets out to achieve. Therefore, if these figures are based on that statement, they are erroneous and illusionary. They are fanciful pipe dreams. We really need an opportunity, therefore, to review the costs of regulation for all clubs six months after the Bill has been enacted. It would be very helpful to Parliament to see what those costs are at that stage and to reflect on them. For the time being, at least, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment 327 withdrawn.

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[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Markham, and express my concern about the non-appearance of this letter. We have been debating whether there is a letter or what the letter says. We have been speculating on what it might or might not say for several weeks and several sessions of this Committee.

I have carefully read the Written Answer that the noble Baroness gave my noble friend Lord Moynihan on 8 January. She does not, interestingly, pray in aid any Cabinet Office guidance or recommendations on the release of so-called private correspondence that forms a part of government policy formation. She just says that

“it would not be appropriate to publish private correspondence with any stakeholders in the Library of the House”.

If it were an individual divulging personal information in the course of their letter to a Minister or a government department, that would be a separate issue. Noble Lords will be aware that, for instance, freedom of information is quite circumscribed as to what can be released in terms of impinging on someone’s privacy, or if it would interfere with an ongoing judicial case. This is not the case. This is not a private letter; this is a letter from a corporate representative body. It may not be a government body or a non-departmental agency in the UK, but it is a representative body of some standing with a rulebook which governs the practice of football in our country.

On that basis, at the very least it is incumbent on the Government to produce that letter. If we have overegged the pudding and, in respect of the backstop, UEFA has no qualms or serious misgivings about this legislation as a whole, and particularly the backstop, I for one am happy to be disabused of my cynicism. In the meantime, we, the media, noble Lords and others in the other place when this goes there will be suspicious unless that letter is produced.

So I respectfully implore the Minister to think again and place that letter in the Library of both Houses so that we can inform a proper debate on specific issues that are germane to this Bill: in other words, the attitude of an important and prestigious organisation such as UEFA.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, an exceptionally important point was made about UEFA not being shy in coming forward. Indeed, we know that, as a result of UEFA representations, the Bill in its original form was changed. If it had such an influence, it is not unreasonable to ask to see a copy of the letter, which is clearly far beyond private correspondence. It is of public interest.

I return to the question that I put on 19 December, when I asked whether it was the Government’s intention

“to seek assurances from UEFA that the introduction of backstop powers to the proposed Football Regulator does not impact on the autonomy and independence of football’s governance as required by UEFA.”

The response was interesting:

“As set out during the House of Lords Committee Stage debate on 18 December, UEFA raised no concerns about the backstop in its most recent meetings with DCMS and the Minister for Sport”.


It does not refer to the letter. Therefore, can the Minister kindly confirm to the Committee this evening that there was no reference to the backstop in the UEFA correspondence? This was of such significance that, in its first introduction into the Committee proceedings, the Minister’s response to the Committee was that publishing the debate around the letter would worry the facts. That was the position. It was not the letter: it was the debate we were having around the letter.

I have just one very simple question, and then I will be much relieved if the answer is as I assume it will be, in the light of the answer given by the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross: that

“UEFA raised no concerns about the backstop in its most recent meetings with DCMS and the Minister of Sport.”

Can the Minister confirm that it did not raise the backstop in the correspondence it had with the DCMS, or raise any concerns referring to the backstop?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, I will start by responding to the amendments put down in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Markham, in this group, and I would like to thank him accordingly. We have not spent a great deal of time talking about some of the implications of the amendments, so I would just like to draw attention to those. The reason we will not be supporting Amendment 336 and the others in this group is that the changes put forward would severely hinder the setting up of the regulator and its ability to achieve its objectives as soon as possible after Royal Assent.

I emphasise again that my noble friend the Minister has stated that the Government have worked closely with and consulted with UEFA, FIFA and the FA throughout the development of this Bill and will continue to work with them as it progresses through Parliament, as indeed will the regulator once it is legally established, including through the FA’s observer role on the regulator’s board. This will ensure that no powers or potential actions taken by the regulator would be in breach of its own rules.

All I can say tonight is that we have debated this issue extensively on a number of occasions, and as my noble friend the Minister has set out previously, we are working with the relevant authorities to give noble Lords the reassurance they seek on the specific concerns regarding UEFA and FIFA statutes, ahead of Report. My response to the repeated requests about the letter has to be, again, that it is private correspondence and the Government do not share private correspondence with international organisations.

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[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I shall certainly take away the noble Lord’s comments, and I repeat the response that I have had from the department in terms of the letter we have received.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Blake. She knows that I admire her greatly, not least as a fellow Leeds supporter. The question is very simple. Would the Government be prepared to write to UEFA to ask its permission for the letter to be published?

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[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions, and I thank the Minister. I think there was a shared view, bar the Minister, that there is an opportunity here to clear this up. It has been going on all the way through, and I must admit that, the more ducking and diving, obfuscation and avoidance there is, the more suspicious I become. We have a new reason today: for the first time, we are told that it is going to hamper the speed of setting up the regulator. The last time I looked, having a meeting with someone takes half a day or a day. It is going to cost a lot more to set it up. I am afraid that that just does not add up. Why do we not ask now? We do not need to wait until Royal Assent—why do we not show them what we are going to go through on Report? The Bill has not even gone through the Commons yet, so we could do this in parallel and it would not need to delay anything. I am sorry, but that does not really wash as a reason. That brings me back to the point that the only reason not to come clean about it all is that there is something they are trying to hide.

The other new reason is that the letter is private. The question rightly asked by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, is whether we have asked UEFA whether it is private and whether it is willing to provide that letter. I feel sorry for the noble Baroness at this point, because maybe it was felt that this was one of the quieter parts of the Bill to take over from her fellow Minister. That was a bit of a hospital pass. But they do not even want to say whether they are willing to ask UEFA whether the letter is private. It is very clear: we can find out by asking whether UEFA does not want it to be published—that is a very quick question—or are the Government trying to stop it being published?

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I just make the point that the only reason we are pushing this so strongly is that if the regulation set by UEFA for European league and other competitions is at odds with what we are considering in this Committee with regard to the regulation that we are looking to put on the statute book, we will have a very real problem. We have the potential for English clubs not being able to participate in European competitions. That is why this is so important.

[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD)]

Just to reply to that, let us be straight: is the noble Lord seriously alleging that the Government are holding back information that could exclude English football clubs from playing in Europe and the World Cup?