Living Standards

Lord Barwell Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

Two thirds of children growing up in poverty have parents who are in work. I think that goes to the heart of the issue of low pay and its impact on families. It is no wonder that payday lenders are among the fastest growing businesses on the high street. Some of them charge interest rates as high as 7,000%. Families, desperate to pay the rent and provide for their children, are being dragged into debt because they are not being paid enough.

The use of food banks—I am not sure whether the Minister has visited one—continues to rise. In my constituency the main food bank is struggling to find larger premises because demand has outstripped all expectations. St Bartholomew’s church in Armley in my constituency is now distributing food parcels to many desperate families. Its work, and that of St George’s Crypt, is a wonderful example of the active citizenship and community spirit in Leeds, but food banks are damning evidence of the Government’s record on living standards.

[Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is right to focus on the issue of low pay. Will she tell the House what has happened under this Government to the level of income tax paid by someone working full time on the minimum wage?

[Rachel Reeves]

I will tell the hon. Gentleman what the IFS says: the average family is £891 worse off as a result of changes to taxes, tax credits and benefits. That takes into account not only the change in the personal allowance, but the cuts to tax credits and all the other changes, such as the VAT increase, that have put pressure on families. Taken in the round, that is the impact on ordinary working families. The Prime Minister says that he is trying, but that is not enough for a family struggling with the bills and the rent and worrying about the increasing gap between what they take home in pay and the cost of some of the basics.

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[Greg Clark]

I congratulate my hon. Friend’s council. We know that council tax is an important bill that people face. That is why when we came to office, knowing the pressures faced by ordinary working people and families, we froze it.

The same is true of the Labour party’s record on fuel duty. Its fuel duty escalator meant that what working people paid to fill up their car rose by more than inflation every year. Petrol would be 13p a litre more if Labour had stayed in office.

Energy prices for the home escalated under Labour. Between 1997 and 2010, the average domestic gas bill doubled. These matters were raised in our earlier exchanges, but the hon. Member for Leeds West omitted to say who the Energy Secretary was in the last Government. It was the current Leader of the Opposition. When I shadowed him across the Dispatch Box, these issues were not addressed, despite our urging him to do so.

In its 13 years in office, the Labour party failed to safeguard pensions. In one notorious year, it increased the state pension by 70p. This Government have restored the link to earnings. Labour presided over the biggest fall in the number of homes being built since the 1920s, with the consequence that rents have risen and, for the first time in 100 years, the proportion of people who own their own home has fallen.

[Gavin Barwell]

My right hon. Friend is doing a very effective job of comparing the record of Labour in office with the rhetoric that we have heard today. The shadow Chief Secretary talked about priorities. Will my right hon. Friend tell the House what was the effect of the Labour Government’s abolition of the 10p rate of income tax? Which sections of society were made worse off by that decision?

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Of course, it was the ordinary working people who were struggling to get by who were penalised by that change. We have not had an apology for that. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) talks about raising VAT. It would be interesting to hear from him whether the Labour party would reverse the rise in VAT.

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[Greg Clark]

The hon. Lady is an experienced and effective campaigner on debt issues, but she will know that the explosion in debt happened under the last Labour Government. The reforms that we have made in financial services, the line-by-line scrutiny of which the hon. Member for Nottingham East participated in, have improved the regulation of such matters. She is right in the sense that the only way of ensuring that people can confidently earn enough to support themselves and their families is for them to be in work and in a good job. That is the purpose of our reforms.

[Gavin Barwell]

The hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) is right to identify low wages as a problem. They are a particular problem in the parts of the country that have the highest living costs because we have a national minimum wage. The second part of the problem is the high level of tax that the Government levy on people who are in low-paid work. Will my right hon. Friend therefore answer the question that the shadow Chief Secretary ducked and tell us what has been the change in the income tax bill for somebody who works full time on the national minimum wage?

[Greg Clark]

Of course, the amount of income tax that is paid by somebody on such modest earnings has been halved. That is the purpose of our reforms. Those people are better off.

Every Member of the House wants the standard of living enjoyed by the people of this country to rise. That is the purpose of economic policy. Let us therefore have a serious analysis of how that can be achieved.

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[Kwasi Kwarteng]

What I will tell the hon. Lady is that it is particularly nauseating to listen to Labour Members talk about increased living costs when under their Government fuel duty was increased 12 times. It is not right for members of the public and people listening to this debate to look on those remarks, when Labour increased fuel duty 12 times without any respite.

[Gavin Barwell]

The hon. Member for East Lothian (Fiona O'Donnell) makes a perfectly fair point about wages, but does my hon. Friend think there is some hypocrisy there, given that just about the only cut that those on the Opposition Front Bench have supported is the freezing of public sector pay over a number of years? It is clear that even under Labour, many people would have seen a real-terms reduction in wages.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Absolutely right. My hon. Friend mentions hypocrisy, and I think that has framed the approach of Labour Members on this issue. They have spoken really from either side of their mouths. On one hand they decry the difficult measures that we have had to implement and, on the other, they refuse to apologise or accept any responsibility for the appalling fiscal situation that they bequeathed to this Government.

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[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

Like other hon. Members, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) on returning to her Front-Bench duties, although I appreciate that she has had to leave the Chamber for the time being.

When I first came to the House 16 years ago, people throughout the country and not just in my constituency, and especially women, were holding two or even three part-time jobs to make ends meet. The history is that 1997, when Labour came to power, was not a good time. It is true—I suspect Government Members would agree—that people were looking for a change, which is what happened in 1997.

Individuals and families were looking for some security and certainty in their lives. In all honesty, that is no different from what businesses were looking for. Businesses were looking for confidence. At the end of the day, if there is confidence in the business world, businesses will in turn believe that they can take that little gamble and create jobs. That is what happened over a sustained period when Labour came to government. Here we are in 2013. Despite what the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng) has said, the country is looking again for those things. The country and businesses are looking for confidence, and families and individuals are looking for security and certainty, to take them forward through these difficult times.

I do not deny that the prospects are very good in some parts of the country, but that is not true of many areas. The situation in communities is patchy. Back in ’97, there was a rapid reduction in unemployment. Department for Work and Pensions staff at the time were able to assist individuals who had been long-term unemployed. People who suspected that they would never find a job were finding work.

Where are we on living standards? We can talk about incomes, but income is not the only aspect of a living standard. The equation must include what people need to spend regularly. That is why people’s living standards in many areas are falling. I regret to say that we are returning to people, especially women, having to hold down two and three part-time, low-pay jobs to make ends meet.

[Gavin Barwell]

Is the hon. Gentleman seriously saying that, in his opinion, between 1997 and 2010, many hard-working people did not have to hold down multiple jobs to make ends meet?

[Mr Brown]

Yes, that was beginning to happen again, but not at the rate we have experienced from 2010 onwards.

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[Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con)]

Beneath the narrow partisanship and complete lack of penitence over Labour’s record in government lies a profound point in this motion about the challenge for public policy in our time: how do we improve the standard of living for people in low-paid work? This Government have done an awful lot to end the obscenity of people out of work being better off than people in work, but there is much more to do to ensure that being in a low-paid job actually pays for people. Government Members should not allow our anger at the hypocrisy of those on the Opposition Benches to cloud the fact that there is a real problem.

[Ian Mearns]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gavin Barwell]

I would like to make a bit of progress first.

I want to talk about two things: how the problem arose, and what we can do to solve it. I would argue that there are four causes of the problem. The first was the deficit built up under the last Government, which was partly the fault of the collapse in the banking system, but partly the fault of Labour for having a deficit before the recession started. Let me quote from something written by the Institute for Fiscal Studies before the last election:

“With government borrowing at its highest level since the Second World War…the key domestic policy issue for the next parliament will be how best to implement a combination of spending cuts and tax raising measures to return it, over the medium-term, to appropriate levels.

This will be painful…families”

will be made

“directly worse off”.

That was the view of the IFS, no matter who was going to win the last election. That is the logical consequence of having the deficit, and voters understand that. I spent the summer knocking on more than 5,000 doors in Woodside and South Norwood in my constituency. The electorate understand that tough decisions have to be made.

The second cause is the international economic climate, which has led to lower than expected growth across the developed world. The third and fourth causes have nothing to do with Government: they are rising commodity prices and long-term changes in the labour market, which have led to a lower value being placed on low-skilled work. My hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) referred to a quotation from the shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions identifying the problem back in 2004.

[Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con)]

My hon. Friend said that the third reason, rising commodity prices, had nothing to do with Government. I would respectfully demur. One of the biggest pressures on families is energy prices, and the reason we have high energy prices in this country is because no one built anything in this country in the 13 years that Labour was in power.

[Gavin Barwell]

There are certainly some commodity prices that Government can influence—my hon. Friend is quite right to pick me up on that—but there are others, such as the prices of basic foodstuffs, that are beyond national domestic control.

How do we solve the problem? I would like to suggest five possible solutions. The first is economic growth. It is not a solution on its own, because part of the deficit is structural.

[Geraint Davies]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gavin Barwell]

I will give way once more, to the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), because I promised I would.

The OECD forecast shows that our economy is projected to grow in quarter 3 by 0.9%, which is more than any other country in the G7 other than Canada, and in quarter 4 by 0.8%, which is the best projected rate in the G7. Unemployment in my constituency of Croydon Central is 6% lower today than it was when Labour left office, while youth unemployment—which the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), who spoke before me, rightly spoke so passionately about—is nearly a quarter lower today than when Labour was in office.

[Ian Mearns]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there are significant variations around the country? I am afraid to say that youth unemployment in the north-east of England is now 25%. We have been accused of being hypocritical a number of times this afternoon, but although he spoke eloquently about the scourge of low pay in his opening remarks, he forgets entirely that his party opposed the implementation of the minimum wage when it was introduced by the last Labour Government.

[Gavin Barwell]

The hon. Gentleman makes two excellent points. The regional variations in economic performance are a profound issue for public policy, and the Conservative party was wrong to oppose the national minimum wage, which is one of the things that the last Labour Government deserve credit for.

The second solution I would suggest involves interest rates. At the moment we have record low interest rates. If we followed the economic policies of the shadow Chancellor, the cost of borrowing would go up, which would make an already difficult problem far worse and hit anyone with a mortgage extremely hard. The third thing we can do is look at public policy changes that Government can make to try to help people in low-paid work. One of the things about this Government that I am proudest of is the increase in the personal allowance. That sounds rather technical, but what it means is how much you can earn—not you, Madam Deputy Speaker, but how much anybody can earn—before the Government start taking money away in tax. When we came to power, the figure was £6,475; from next April, it will be £10,000.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Gavin Barwell]

I am afraid I cannot give way again.

That change has taken 2.7 million low-paid people out of income tax altogether and cut the income tax bill for someone on the minimum wage by a half. The shadow Chief Secretary talked about priorities. It is true that this Government have made a change to the tax rates for some of the wealthiest in our country, but if we want to talk about priorities, we have to say that the Treasury has spent 50 times more cutting tax rates for people in ordinary low-paid work than it has paid in reducing the top rate. That shows this Government’s priorities.

As other hon. Members have said, we have ensured that petrol duty is 13p a litre cheaper today than it would have been if we had followed Labour’s policies. We have cancelled the beer duty escalator. We have helped local councils across the country to keep council tax bills down. We have a scheme that we will introduce for tax-free child care, which will help with the cost of child care for people with children under the age of 12. We are ensuring that energy customers are placed on the lowest tariff. We have introduced the triple lock for the state pension, to ensure that we never again have the national scandal of our pensioners being given a derisory pension increase each year. We are also introducing the Help to Buy scheme, to try to help my constituents who want to own a home of their own and take that vital first step to get on the housing ladder, so there is much that this Government are doing.

[Geraint Davies]

rose—

[Gavin Barwell]

I cannot give way again.

There is also the crucial issue of wages. I have talked about the national minimum wage already, and there were some interesting reports in the media recently about the Government perhaps looking at what they can do on the minimum wage. As a Conservative, I would worry very much about a uniform increase, which might price some people out of the labour market. However, there is a case for asking whether larger companies or those that are making healthy profits should not be paying their staff more, because at the moment we are subsidising some employers to pay low wages, through the tax credit system that the previous Government introduced. I very much hope that the Government will look at how we tackle the issue of quality of life for people on low pay from both ends, by raising the personal allowance, so that we do not tax them so much, but also seeing whether we can ensure that they are paid a fair wage for the hard work they do.

One Opposition Member who talked about this issue implied that it was just Labour councils that are passionate about a living wage. My local authority, Conservative-controlled Croydon council, pays all its staff the London living wage, while the Mayor of London has guaranteed that that will apply to all staff working for the Greater London authority as well.

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gavin Barwell]

I am afraid I cannot give way again.

That is a big issue, particularly in London and the south-east, where pay costs are highest.

I also want to raise with my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, who gave an incredibly thoughtful speech, the issue of public sector pay. We have been quite right to restrict increases in public sector pay, because high increases would simply have meant more joblessness, but there is a limit to how long that policy can be continued. I hope that as wages increase in the wider economy, those who work in the public sector are not left out of that process.

Finally, if we want a high-wage economy, the long-term solution is to ensure that we have people with high skills who can command high wages in our globalised labour market. That is why I am so proud to work as the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Secretary of State for Education, whose work, building on what the former Prime Minister and Lord Adonis achieved, is transforming standards of education in our country. Ultimately, if young people in Croydon Central want to command high wages in our economy, they need the qualifications and skills that will enable them to secure those jobs. We should not pretend that there is not a problem, but the Government are doing much to deal with it, and I hope they will do more still.

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[Alison McGovern]

My hon. Friend is quite right.

[Gavin Barwell]

rose—

[Ben Gummer]

rose—

[Alison McGovern]

As I am following the speech of the hon. Member for Croydon Central, I will give way to him.

[Gavin Barwell]

The hon. Lady is typically gracious. May I just remind her—and, through her, the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley)—that the policy of establishing academies was introduced by the last Labour Government?

[Alison McGovern]

My hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) mentioned free schools and the proliferation of such new schools opening. I believe that we should all, on a cross-party basis, call on schools to do everything they can to keep the cost of uniforms as low as possible. That message must be sent out loud and clear.

[Gavin Barwell]

indicated assent.

[Alison McGovern]

If the hon. Gentleman will support that suggestion, his support will be welcome.

The issue of living standards is not going to go away. It will affect us for many years to come. If we simply say that increasing GDP figures and nominal growth in the economy are all that matter, regardless of the distribution or sustainability of that growth, we shall be storing up problems for the future. We know this from the history of our country, and we should not be oblivious to the needs of those on low and middle incomes. Let us not forget that those people are not some small special-interest group; they are the vast majority of people. So when Labour Members talk about the importance of living standards for them, we are not engaging in some strange obsession with a small number of people. This is about the needs of everyone in the country, and about making sure that they are well served by the Government’s economic policy.

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[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

First, I commend my right hon. and hon. Friends for holding the Government to account on the cost of living crisis. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) made a powerful speech about the cases that Opposition Members see in our constituencies, with hard-pressed families struggling to make ends meet. She talked about not just the crisis that they face but the difficulty of even getting advice and support, including from the citizens advice bureau, as local authorities are scaling back their grants to voluntary organisations.

The crisis is exceptionally significant, so it is sad that there has been scant interest in the debate among Conservative Members and zero interest among Liberal Democrat Members, who have been completely absent from the debate for the past three hours. What better way could there be for hon. Members to see the complacency and lack of interest among Government Members in one of the most pressing and significant issues for our constituents?

We have had not just inaction from the Government for the past three years but policies that are actively making the cost of living worse for most people. Month after month, year after year, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have presided over prices rising faster than wages. No other Prime Minister since records began has come close to the disaster in family living standards that the current Prime Minister and Chancellor have overseen. For 37 of the Prime Minister’s 38 months in office, real wages have shrunk in value. The pound in the pocket, the pound that someone has earned, does not go as far as it used to—it is diminished in value and worth less than it was before. No wonder people are working longer hours just to stand still.

Three years of suspended animation have created a treadmill economy in which millions are struggling just to stay where they are. My hon. Friends the Members for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) and for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) made that point exceptionally coherently. To listen to Government Members, however—those who took the trouble to take part this afternoon, possibly because reshuffle season is coming up—one would think that the way things are going is their idea of economic success.

Average hourly wages have fallen by 5.5% since the middle of 2010, but millionaires have never had it so good. Living standards for most people are falling, not rising, and as the Financial Times has pointed out, real wages have dropped back to their 2004 level.

[Gavin Barwell]

The hon. Gentleman said that millionaires had never had it so good. Will he remind us what the marginal rate of tax on millionaires was under the Labour Government, and how that compares with today?

[Chris Leslie]

For a moment during the hon. Gentleman’s speech earlier, I thought he was a little embarrassed about the cut in the top rate of tax from 50p to 45p, which happened in April. I was on the verge of intervening on him to ask whether he regretted voting to give priority to such a cut at a time when living standards are under the most stress. Does he regret doing that? Does he think it was the wrong thing to do?

[Gavin Barwell]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman one more time if he wants to say sorry to the House.

[Gavin Barwell]

The whole House will have noted that the hon. Gentleman is unable to answer the question, but I will set a good example and answer his question. I do not think very wealthy people need a tax cut in terms of living standards, but I think that when attracting wealthy people to locate to this country, high marginal rates of tax are a bad idea, and therefore I voted for change.

[Chris Leslie]

I said it was reshuffle season. We nearly got an apology; the hon. Gentleman does not think rich people need that tax cut, but he voted to give it to them anyway because he is that sort of generous guy. I say to him, and to other Members, that the Office for Budget Responsibility, which the Government created, predicts that by the next general election in 2015, annual incomes will be £1,520 lower than they were in 2010 in real terms. That is lower wages. Just think about that statistic for a moment. Five years of Conservative and Liberal Democrat administration will have left a legacy for working people in which they are actually worse off, and significantly so.