Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 7th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

That is an extraordinary statement, because in the hon. Lady’s constituency the greatest level of exports is from professional and business services, and those exports are increasing not only to the EU but to countries outside the EU. That is the reality on the ground, so our strategy is working. UK exports were £859 billion in 2023—a figure that has gone up, not down, by £21 billion. The UK is the second biggest services exporter in the world—she should be proud of that because many such businesses are in her constituency. Those exports have increased to 54% from 48%, so there is good news, but we are keen to do more.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Office for Budget Responsibility said yesterday that exports, including from SMEs, will fall even more than expected this year; growth in exports will be less than 1% in each of the next three years; and other countries will not be hit the same way. There have been cuts in the funding to help businesses start exporting and there has been no deal with the United States, no Diwali deal with India, and no veterinary agreement with the EU to cut red tape and slash costs. What does the Minister think is the best explanation for the Government’s dismal performance on exports so far?

[Ms Ghani]

We can get the best explanation from looking at the data behind what the hon. Gentleman set out. He obviously omitted the international reality. In the same report, the OBR referenced the “sluggish growth” in “global economies” and mentioned that British goods and services will outperform, on average, G7 countries. Those are the facts on the ground. When it comes to exports, we are exporting not only into the EU but outside the EU. As I said earlier, professional and business services are increasing outside the EU by 19%. We have substantial programmes in place to help small and medium-sized enterprises. We are keen to learn and do as much work as we can. There will be far more work coming through as this is the year of the SME.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Industry and Economic Security (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for highlighting the Policy Exchange report, and I agree that the UK should not enter a subsidy race with other industrial nations. We already have our advanced manufacturing plan, which, obviously, focuses on advanced manufacturing, and the Chancellor is also looking at green industries, life sciences, creative industries and digital technology. Those are all areas in which we know we can grow as well. I have spoken about the record levels of investment we get into the UK. Last autumn, when the Chancellor announced full expensing, more than 200 business leaders and the CBI said that that was a game changer and the single most transformative thing we could do to fire up the British economy. We will continue to be competitive and ensure that we continue to be the third country, after the USA and China, in securing inward investment—of course, beating our European counterparts.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 25th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Industry and Economic Security (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

More than 15% of global shipping traffic passes through the Red sea, making it one of the most important strategic waterways in the world. Overall, a whopping 12% of global trade volumes use this trade route and my Department is monitoring the impact of events in the Red sea closely. I was previously the shipping Minister and now I am the Minister for advanced manufacturing, so I know that this is important to industry.

We are working to equip UK businesses with the tools they need to deal with global supply chain issues. Just last week, I published the world’s first ever critical imports and supply chains strategy in collaboration with industry. The strategy includes making the UK Government the centre of excellence for supply chain analysis and risk assessment, supporting our status as the world’s eighth largest manufacturer. This will help UK business to build secure and reliable supply chains, which are vital to the UK’s economy, national security and the delivery of our essential services.

[Mr Speaker]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman does not need to ask a question now, with all you have read out. Come on, Sir Michael!

[Michael Fabricant]

I will think of one, Mr Speaker. As my hon. Friend has said, we are the eighth largest manufacturer in the world—and where is the centre of manufacturing? It is, of course, the west midlands. What advice is my hon. Friend giving to people such as Andy Street about what can be done to support businesses in the west midlands to overcome what I hope is a temporary difficulty?

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend has hit so many markers in that question. He is absolutely right that the west midlands, and Birmingham in particular, are the heart of advanced manufacturing. I suggest that the Mayor catches up on supply chain reporting. I am more than happy to sit down and talk to him about that. We have worked with industry, including in the automotive sector, to ensure that supply chains can be as flexible and resilient as possible. Of course there are concerns about extended routes from that part of the world into Europe, but, as I mentioned earlier, we are the first country in the world to produce a strategy, working with industry to ensure that the UK continues to provide the data that it needs—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Come on! I call Nicola Richards.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I believe it far more preferential that we made the largest investment ever in steelmaking to protect more than 5,000 jobs at Port Talbot and the 12,500 jobs in the supply chain—[Interruption.] Fundamentally, we have steelmaking—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It might be better that that conversation is carried on outside, rather than going on across the Benches while the Minister is replying.

[Ms Ghani]

At the heart of our decision was two things: continued steelmaking at Port Talbot and protecting steelworkers.

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend has a huge amount of knowledge of the steel sector and is a huge champion for Scunthorpe. She knows that we are working incredibly hard with the company in her constituency, and we are waiting for it to respond to the business plans going forward. We know how important virgin steelmaking is, and we accept, because technology has moved on, that going forward 90% of all steel can be made in electric arc furnaces.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

British Steel

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 8th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend makes lots of very credible points—there is very little for me to disagree with. She does indeed make representations at the highest levels of Government, and her priority has always been steelworkers; she has never played politics with that role. I put on record my apologies if I have not done due diligence and provided the public service that she should have received by being contacted much sooner on that particular day. There is nothing she could say that I would not be telling myself off for even more, and I hope I will not fall short in communications going forward.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: I did indeed say at the Dispatch Box that my personal opinion is that there is a strong place for virgin steel production in this country, and that, of course, is in her constituency. We are in the middle of live negotiations, and any decision taken by British Steel is a commercial decision. My hon. Friend is also right that we are able to carry out due diligence on any support we provide; it is taxpayers’ money, and our primary focus is to safeguard the sector and jobs, including in her constituency.

My hon. Friend is right to note that we have prioritised the UK steel sector, and we will continue to do so. We need to provide it with support as it transitions, because that is also a choice being made by manufacturers, customers and consumers who are looking for greener steel going forward. Any decision we take and any support we provide will be to ensure that the sector is sustainable and competitive. We want the sector not just to survive, but to thrive.

My hon. Friend spoke about the support we have provided to the sector to date. We have provided hundreds of millions of pounds of support to British Steel to deal with its emissions, and over £730 million in energy cost relief to the steel sector since 2013. We have put the supercharger in place, as well as the steel procurement policy note, which does its very best to ensure that we procure more steel here in the UK. We have provided support to Tata to ensure that that part of the country can continue to make steel and to protect those jobs, and we have provided support to Celsa. My hon. Friend talked about the support we are providing to North Lincolnshire generally—there is a huge amount of support there. Since 2018, the Government have committed over £200 million in investment in the north and north-east Lincolnshire area.

I cannot say much more at this time because we are in the middle of live negotiations that are commercially sensitive. When British Steel put out its press release, that was the first time I saw it, but we must recognise that it was a proposal; many things have to fall into place for such proposals to become accurate plans—not only will there be issues around planning, but our negotiations have to conclude as well. I do not doubt that I will continue to lean on my hon. Friend, and that she will continue to champion steelworkers in her constituency and across the country.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

As I have said repeatedly at the Dispatch Box, I fundamentally believe we need to have virgin steel capacity in the UK, but these are commercial decisions, and negotiations are continuing. These are incredibly commercial decisions, and we are doing our very best to support electric and virgin steel capacity in the UK. We are very much aware of the challenges we have in importing steel and with the global markets when it comes to the price of steel, and that is why we need to make sure we have a mix. These are commercial decisions, which is why negotiations are ongoing. Fundamentally, the announcement by British Steel was a proposal—nothing is done yet. We are still in the middle of negotiations.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I agree on both points: first, on the incredible work that my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe does for steelworkers in her constituency; and secondly, that we cannot achieve net zero without a mix of steel being manufactured in the UK. We have a booming renewables sector, whether that is solar panels, blades for offshore wind farms, or electric vehicles. Much of that steel can be produced by electric arc furnaces, but my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) is absolutely right that there is a space for virgin steel, too.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Business and Trade Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 14th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I fundamentally disagree with the question—well, it was more of a statement. I made it clear when I took on this role that we would assess the level of steel in procurement contracts, and we have put together the steel procurement policy note, which will address how much steel is being procured in our contracts in the UK. We are doing a huge amount to ensure that the different types of steel that are needed are produced. We know how valuable the sector is, which is why we provided support with high energy costs and why we have a decarbonisation budget that the industry can link into. I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Gentleman’s proposition.

[Mr Speaker]

I call shadow Minister Sarah Jones and welcome her to her new position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I say simply that yes, I will.

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I know the hon. Member wants to put all these anxieties on Brexit and forget about all the opportunities we are securing with trade agreements around the world. The issue he raises fundamentally sits at the doorstep of the Cabinet Office and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and we are working very closely with them to resolve it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 29th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

We have been supporting the steel industry, with more than £1 billion available in grants to help decarbonise the sector and the provision of more than £730 million to cover energy costs since 2013. The CBAM is clearly an issue for many countries, not just ours. We have just finished one consultation, and will produce a response in due course. A transitional reporting phase is due to start in October, with full introduction in 2026. The EU is still developing details about CBAM implementation, and has a consultation open on proposed reporting requirements until 11 July. I know that the hon. Member chairs the all-party parliamentary group for steel and metal related industries, and I urge him to ensure that all businesses express their views as strongly as possible. I think we are meeting on Monday to make sure that we can provide a substantial response.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

This is a great opportunity to talk about Airbus’s 500-plane deal with Indian airline IndiGo. It is the largest aviation deal in history, and it has been done on our watch. We are providing the certainty that businesses need in order to go out and confidently secure such contracts. A lot of the jobs will be in the UK, but I will take away what my hon. Friend said, because we want to be able to show precisely the level of investment in the UK and the number of jobs that are created by this deal.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I remind Ministers that they should be speaking to me, not to the Back Benches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do not know whether the Minister wants to respond.

[Ms Ghani]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Speaker]

If not, there was nothing disorderly, and I cannot continue the debate. What I can say is that the hon. Member has certainly put his view on the record.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 18th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I have read the hon. Member’s report, because he sent it to me. I have lost many hours of my life, but I have read it and I enjoyed it. It would be remiss of me not to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell), the Conservative leader of the UK parliamentary delegation to the Council of Europe, for all his work. There is lots of really good stuff. [Interruption.] He leads the delegation, but the hon. Member wrote the report, which I have read. There are some good points, especially on China’s emissions, which are greater than USA and the EU combined.

The UK works with allies and partners through multilateral systems to promote our values globally. Multilateral forums include the UN, the World Trade Organisation, the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe and the Council of Europe. I will sit down and work through the hon. Member’s report with him.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

The hon. Gentleman started so positively. If he is against Brexit, then he is against every trade deal, and he is against the most integrated single market in the world, which is Scotland and England. All he wants to do is to split, split, split. I have already told him the good news that the total amount of exports in pounds is up. There is also fantastic news about whisky—surely that can raise a smile from the hon. Gentleman—and about services: in 2022, UK services were up by 24% in current prices, and by 4% when the figure was adjusted for inflation. I know it is difficult for the hon. Gentleman to accept good news from the Government Benches, but it is good for his constituents, so he should welcome it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

UK Car Industry

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue. He and I worked together on the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee. He has always been a passionate advocate for his constituency. It is indeed a fantastic proposal and we are keen to make sure that we can support as much investment as possible and that sites are set up for gigafactories. We know how important it is to ensure that the supply chain is as reliable as possible. If my hon. Friend would like to meet me, we can go through the proposals in further detail.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I believe that my right hon. Friend was the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy when the decision on the Faraday battery challenge was taken. He made sure that £211 million of funding was in place, so that technology could be developed to make batteries as efficient as they can be. That is just one part of our trying to secure investment into the UK. I can confirm that meetings are constantly taking place, including at Secretary of State level, with companies based in the UK and overseas, meeting with chief executive officers and chief financial officers to ensure that the UK is seen as an attractive place to manufacture cars. There is a global challenge around supply chains—it is not just a domestic issue—and we are keen to ensure that the UK continues to be seen as the best place to manufacture cars.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I thank my hon. Friend for that incredibly sensible question. I have talked about all the programmes of work we have in place to attract gigafactories to the UK and to ensure that we are using the best technology that we can. We have the automotive transformation fund, which is building globally competitive electric vehicle supply chains, and I have spoken about the Faraday project, which will unlock a huge amount of research and development. We have Envision, too. We are working with and we constantly talk to other investors to help them come and establish gigafactories in the UK. We know how important it is to have supply chains to deal with the remarkable amount of cars being manufactured here.

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that we also published in the integrated review an updated report on critical minerals to ensure that we are able to access to those minerals and are not relying on a particular nation, but can diversify. As I have said, I co-chair the Automotive Council, and that will provide a huge amount of assurance to his constituents that we are working hand in hand with the sector.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Business and Trade Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I am so grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding the House of Cornwall’s mining heritage and the world-renowned Camborne School of Mines. This is why we are backing Cornish lithium and geothermal engineering, through the Getting Building fund and the automotive transformation fund, which are collaborating to build a zero-carbon lithium extraction plant at an existing site in Cornwall. I very much look forward to visiting it in the near future.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab)]

The Minister knows that the steel industry is an important customer for critical minerals in this country, so will she confirm for the House the status of the Steel Council in her Department and whether it is actively meeting?

[Ms Ghani]

I served with the hon. Gentleman on the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee for many years. He will be very familiar with the fact that I meet the steel sector and the unions, and I have all the regular meetings, including those with the all-party parliamentary group for steel and metal related industries, which is chaired by the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock). The meetings are most definitely taking place.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I am sorry to dampen the hon. Gentleman’s ambitions about winning the next general election, but we do indeed have a strategy to deal with decarbonising our economy. We are supporting research and development to help decrease our reliance on gas and electricity and deal with long-term energy security: we have £380 million for the offshore wind sector, £385 million for nuclear R&D, and £120 million for future nuclear enabling. We have a green industrial strategy and we are keen to ensure that we deliver it right across the country, for all of our communities.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 9th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

Mr Speaker, may I first thank you for your leadership in hosting President Zelensky yesterday? It really was a humbling moment for us all. My hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury (Mark Eastwood), with his can-do attitude, is constantly championing everybody in Dewsbury. As he may know, UK Export Finance offers a range of trade, finance and insurance products to help small and medium-sized businesses fulfil export contracts. It works with more than 100 private sector partners, including all major UK banks. UKEF support is underpinned by the innovative general export facility, a product designed to give SME exporters more flexibility when accessing trade finance. It unlocked almost £250 million of working capital loans in the last financial year. Local trade has obviously helped strengthen the “Made in the UK” branding, which provides export support to SMEs across the country. Face-to-face support for exporters in England is delivered via a network of around 200 international trade advisers. There is so much to say, but I think I should stop there.

[Mr Speaker]

Hear, hear. I call Matt Western.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Business and Trade (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

The UK’s total inward investment stock is the second highest in the world, having recently passed £2 trillion. As the Secretary of State outlined, we want to make the UK the undisputed top investment destination in Europe, attracting high-impact, high-value investment into our strategically important sectors which will make a real difference to the UK economy. We are facilitating both Government-to-Government and industry investment. The UK-UAE sovereign investment partnership will bring £10 billion to key UK sectors. Likewise, the Moderna partnership will support our research and clinical trials infrastructure, building a state-of-the-art vaccine manufacturing centre and creating over 150 highly skilled jobs in the UK. Compared to 2020-21, last year —2021-22—the estimated economic impact of foreign direct investment projects supported by the Department for International Trade increased by 82% and the number of new jobs by 53%.

[Mr Speaker]

Minister, why are the answers so long? We have not heard the rest of the questions yet. I have a big list.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Business and Trade (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

My hon. Friend once again promotes a fantastic business in his constituency. The UK tech and digital sectors are key for us and are our greatest success stories, with a total valuation in excess of £1 trillion in 2022. The UK tech sector retains the No. 1 spot in Europe and is No. 3 in the world, as the sector’s resilience brings continued growth. On tech within life sciences, we are one of the top countries in the world to be seen collaborating and investing with.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I completely understand why the right hon. Member may be confused. We on the Conservative Benches represent business, and I know that the Labour party was stopping people from doing their business by backing the strikes. We on this side of the House represent trade, but I cannot think of a single trade deal that he was proud to support. I can understand the level of complete confusion, but I do not understand some of the figures that he cites.

There is such fantastic news out there. We have talked about the fact that we have attracted £20 billion in tech. Why would the right hon. Member not be proud of that? If he wants to talk about reports, just last night I read the PricewaterhouseCoopers report, which said that the UK would be the fastest growing G7 economy by 2050, and will outgrow Germany, France and Italy. That is good news. I thought Thursday mornings were about promoting Great Britain—

[Mr Speaker]

And topical questions are meant to be short and brief. I call Philip Hollobone to set the example.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

Northern Ireland plays a full part in all our trading agreements, and I believe that a Northern Irish machinery exporter is involved in the Australia deal. My hon. Friend and I have spoken quite a bit about the Northern Ireland protocol in respect of the Bill I took through recently, and he will be aware of the sensitive discussions that have taken place with the Administration to ensure everything can be as smooth as possible. If needed, I will always be available to meet my hon. Friend.

[Mr Speaker]

I will have to suspend the House until 10.30. I am sorry nobody else wanted to come in.

British Steel: Negotiations

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

Our lady of steel basically sums up the whole argument in her two minutes, and I do not disagree with much of what she has said. The decision to hold this meeting is a commercial one, but I agree with my hon. Friend that it is a peculiar way to do business, while we are in the middle of negotiations that will involve substantial amounts of Government support, which I will go on to describe.

I put on record, agreeing with my hon. Friend, that we make the finest steel in the world, and the steelworkers in the UK are the most skilled in the world. British Steel manufacturing is vital, and it cuts across everything we do, as well as issues around supply chain resilience brought on by Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and issues around Chinese steel dumping. Steel is vital for our national security, just as it is for every sector involved in manufacturing and production. The Government are absolutely committed to the steel industry, and I will go on to describe that.

I make it clear that any decision that Jingye makes is a commercial decision, but it is our duty to make sure that if support is needed, we make it available, so our thoughts are first and foremost with employees and their families. We will work across Whitehall, whether that is standing up the Department for Work and Pensions rapid response service to support employees, working with the MoneyHelper scheme or working with the Department for Education’s National Careers Service.

I will spend a moment to explain the level of support that British Steel has already had. We have offered £120 million in grant funding through the exceptional regional growth fund to ensure that it can continue to work in the area. We have offered UK export finance to help it with new export contracts. In June, we extended UK Steel’s safeguards to protect domestic production. It has benefited from Government electricity price compensation for energy-intensive industries and the energy relief scheme for business. As I have mentioned, £800 million has been provided across the sector since 2013. It can also apply for help with energy efficiency, decarbonisation, low-carbon infrastructure, and research and development, where more than £1 billion is available in competitive funding for industry. The support is strategic and long term.

My hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe raised three points. She asked me to challenge the company on the number of employees it needs to continue functioning in a safe and stable way. Of course, we will drive that message home, and we will make it clear in the strongest terms that this is not the way to do business. She knows that I was on the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee for a few years, and we wrote a report on steel. Perhaps my language then was a little freer than I can be at the Dispatch Box. It is peculiar for this conversation to take place while we are in the middle of good negotiations, since the negotiations involve substantial taxpayer money. Obviously, these are sensitive negotiations, but I do not think that it is inappropriate for me to say that the Government want some assurances and guarantees linked to jobs. The message I want to send today is that we will continue to be available to ensure that discussions and negotiations continue.

I listed the huge support that the Government have already put in place for steel. If I may, I would like to share some of the other support available for the region in and around Scunthorpe. More than £20 million was given to Scunthorpe through the towns fund, and more than £10 million through the future high streets fund. More than £25 million in seed capital was given towards the Humber freeport, and more than £5 million to north Lincolnshire from the UK shared prosperity fund. I must put on record my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe for being such a fantastic campaigner and for securing that funding for her constituency.

These are ongoing, sensitive negotiations. I hope everybody across the House, regardless of what they think of the Government’s record, will send the shared message that negotiations and discussions should continue. It is appropriate that within those discussions we should expect some assurances on job security.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend has always been a great advocate for all the jobs in his constituency, including those linked to the steel supply chain. That is why the sector is so important: the number of jobs that trickle through it is huge, and it is a foundation industry that supports every other manufacturing sector. We are negotiating as hard as we can to ensure that we get over the present hurdle and that we can go on and talk about other things, such as further procurement, which would be great news for the supply chain as well. Of course, if any decision is taken by the firm, it will be a commercial decision, and if any support is required for workers, across Whitehall, we will do everything we can to ensure that that support is available.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Report stage
Wednesday 18th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Industry and Investment Security (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Conditions for bringing sections 3, 4 and 5 into force—

“(1) None of sections 3, 4 or 5 may be brought into force unless all the following conditions have been satisfied.

(2) The first condition is that a Minister of the Crown has, after consulting organisations and persons representative of interests substantially affected by, or with expertise in the likely legal effect of, that section on a draft of that report, laid a report before each House of Parliament setting out, with reasons, the Minister’s view as to the likely advantages and disadvantages of bringing that section into force, setting out in particular the effect of that section on:

(a) the rights of and protections for consumers, workers, and businesses, and protections of the environment and animal welfare;

(b) legal certainty, and the clarity and predictability of the law;

(c) the operation of the Trade and Cooperation agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU, and UK exports of goods and services to the European Economic Area; and

(d) the operation of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland in the EU withdrawal agreement.

(3) In relation to section 4, that report must take into account any regulation made or likely to be made by a relevant national authority under section 8(1).

(4) The second condition is that a period of sixty days has passed since that report was laid before Parliament, with no account to be taken of any time during which Parliament is dissolved or prorogued or during which either House is adjourned for more than four days.

(5) The third condition is that, after the end of that period, both Houses of Parliament have approved a resolution that that section come into force.

(6) If both Houses of Parliament have approved a resolution that that section should not come into force unless it is amended in a way set out in that resolution, then the Minister may by regulation amend that section accordingly, and that section may not be brought into force until that amendment has been made.”

This new clause requires Ministers to analyse, and to explain their analysis of, the effect of the removal of retained EU law rights, the principle of supremacy of EU law, and of the general principles. It also includes opportunity for Parliamentary approval and timeframes for laying reports before both Houses.

New clause 3—Conditions on the exercise of powers under section 15 and 16—

“(1) The first condition is that the relevant national authority has consulted such organisations as appear to it to be representative of interests substantially affected by its proposals, and any such other persons as it considers appropriate, on a draft of those regulations.

(2) The second condition is that the national authority has, after that consultation has concluded and after considering any representations made to it, laid a draft of the regulations before each House of Parliament (or, as the case may be, the Scottish Parliament, Senedd or Northern Ireland Assembly), together with a report setting out, with reasons, the authority’s view as to the likely advantages and disadvantages of making those regulations, setting out in particular:

(a) a summary of the objectives and effect of those regulations as compared to the instrument that they will revoke, replace or modify;

(b) any difference as between that instrument and the proposed regulations in terms of protections for consumers, workers, businesses, the environment, or animal welfare;

(c) any benefits which are expected to flow from the revocation or replacement of that instrument;

(d) the consultation undertaken as required by subsection (2);

(e) any representations received as a result of that consultation;

(f) the reason why the national authority considers that it is appropriate to make those regulations, having considered those representations;

(g) the reasons why the national authority considers that section 15(5) (overall reduction in burdens) does not preclude the making of the regulations, explaining what burdens are reduced or increased as a result of the making of the regulations;

(h) the compatibility of the revocation, modification, or replacement of that instrument with obligations in the Trade and Cooperation Agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU, and the likely effect on UK exports of goods or services to the European Economic Area; and

(i) the likely effect of the revocation, modification, or replacement of that instrument on the operation of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland in the EU withdrawal agreement.

(3) The third condition is that a period of sixty days has passed since those draft regulations or that report were laid as required by subsection (2) with no account to be taken of any time during which Parliament (or, as the case may be, the Scottish Parliament, Senedd Cymru or Northern Ireland Assembly) is dissolved or prorogued or during which either House or that body is adjourned for more than four days, and where they were laid before Parliament, paragraph 8(11)(a) of Schedule 3 shall apply in determining the commencement of that period.

(4) The fourth condition is that the national authority has considered any representations made during the period provided for by subsection (3) and, in particular, any resolution or report of, or of any committee of, either House of Parliament (or, as the case may be of the Scottish Parliament, Senedd Cymru or Northern Ireland Assembly) with regard to the proposals, and has published its reasons for accepting or rejecting any such representations, resolution, or report.”

This new clause requires the relevant national authorities to consult with key stakeholders on proposed regulations revoking or replacing REUL, and to show Parliament their assessment of the impact of the changes

New clause 5—Powers to revoke or replace: application to environmental law—

“(1) This section applies in respect of provision which may be made by a relevant national authority under section 15 where the provision is in respect of secondary retained EU law which is environmental law.

(2) No provision may be made unless the relevant national authority considers that the provision will contribute to a significant improvement in environmental protection.

(3) The relevant national authority must—

(a) have regard to international environmental protection legislation and international best practice on environmental protection,

(b) comply with the requirements and objectives of the Aarhus, Bonn, Bern, Ramsar, OSPAR and Biodiversity Conventions, and

(c) comply with environmental principles and the policy statement on environmental principles.

(4) The relevant national authority must—

(a) seek advice from persons who are independent of it and have relevant expertise,

(b) seek advice from, as appropriate, the Office for Environmental Protection, Environmental Standards Scotland, a devolved environmental governance body or other person exercising similar functions, and

(c) publish a report setting out—

(i) how the provision will contribute to a significant improvement in environmental protection, and

(ii) how the authority has taken into account the advice from the persons referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b).

(5) In this section—

“Aarhus Convention” means The UNECE Convention on access to information, public participation in decision making and access to justice in environmental matters (Aarhus, 25 June 1998);

“Bern Convention” means the Council of Europe's Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats (Bern, 1979) [ratified / signed];

“Biodiversity Convention” means the UN Convention on Biodiversity (Rio, 1992);

“Bonn Convention” means The Convention on the Conservation of Migratory Species of Wild Animals (Bonn, 1979);

“devolved environmental governance body” has the same meaning as in section 47 of the Environment Act 2021;

“environmental law” has the same meaning as in section 46 of the Environment Act 2021, but without the exception set out in section 46(3) and (4) (devolved legislative provision);

“environmental protection” has the same meaning as in section 45 of the Environment Act 2021;

“environmental principles” and “policy statement on environmental principles” have the same meanings as in section 17 of the Environment Act 2021;

“Environmental Standards Scotland” has the same meaning as in section 19 of the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021;

“international environmental protection legislation” has the same meaning as in section 21 of the Environment Act 2021;

“Office for Environmental Protection” has the same meaning as in section 22 of the Environment Act 2021;

“OSPAR Convention” means The Convention for the Protection of the Marine Environment of the North-East Atlantic (1992);

“RAMSAR Convention” means The Convention on Wetlands of International Importance especially as Waterfowl Habitat (Ramsar, 1971).”

This new clause creates additional conditions to be satisfied before the powers set out in clause 15 can be exercised where the subject matter of their exercise concerns environmental law.

Amendment 33, page 1, line 2, leave out clause 1.

This amendment deletes the sunset clause.

Amendment 18, page 1, line 4, leave out “2023” and insert “2026”.

This amendment moves the sunset of legislation from 2023 to 2026.

Amendment 28, page 1, line 6, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to an instrument, or a provision of an instrument, that—

(a) would be within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament if it were contained in an Act of the Scottish Parliament, or

(b) could be made in subordinate legislation by the Scottish Ministers, the First Minister or the Lord Advocate acting alone.”

This amendment restricts the automatic revocation or “sunsetting” of EU-derived subordinate legislation and retained direct EU legislation under Clause 1 of the Bill so that it does not apply to legislation that is within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.

Amendment 37, page 1, line 6, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to an instrument, or a provision of an instrument, that—

(a) would be within the legislative competence of the Northern Ireland Assembly if it were contained in an Act of the Northern Ireland Assembly, or

(b) could be made in subordinate legislation by Ministers of the Northern Ireland Executive.”

This amendment restricts the automatic revocation or “sunsetting” of EU-derived subordinate legislation and retained direct EU legislation under Clause 1 of the Bill so that it does not apply to legislation that is within the legislative competence of the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly.

Amendment 38, page 1, line 6, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to an instrument, or a provision of an instrument, that—

(a) would be within the legislative competence of Senedd Cymru if it were contained in an Act of Senedd Cymru, or

(b) could be made in subordinate legislation by the Welsh Ministers acting alone.”

This amendment restricts the automatic revocation or “sunsetting” of EU-derived subordinate legislation and retained direct EU legislation under Clause 1 of the Bill so that it does not apply to legislation that is within the legislative competence of the Senedd.

Amendment 19, page 1, line 9, at end insert—

“(2A) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following instruments—

(a) Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999,

(b) Children and Young Person Working Time Regulations 1933,

(c) Posted Workers (Enforcement of Employment Rights) Regulations 2020,

(d) Part Time Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000,

(e) Fixed-Term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2002,

(f) Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006,

(g) Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 2004,

(h) Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005,

(i) Working Time Regulations 1998,

(j) Agency Workers Regulations 2010,

(k) Maternity and Parental Leave etc Regulations 1999,

(l) Trade Secrets (Enforcement etc) Regulations 2018 and

(m) The Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996.”

This amendment would exclude certain regulations which provide for workers’ protections from the sunset in subsection (1).

Amendment 21, page 1, line 9, at end insert—

“(2A) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following instruments—

(a) The REACH Regulation and the REACH Enforcement Regulations 2008,

(b) The Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2017,

(c) The Conservation of Offshore Marine Habitats and Species Regulations 2017,

(d) The Urban Waste Water Treatment (England and Wales) Regulations 1994,

(e) The Water Resources (Control of Pollution) (Silage, Slurry and Agricultural Fuel Oil) (England) Regulations 2010,

(f) The Bathing Waters Regulations 2013,

(g) Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) (England and Wales) Regulations 2017,

(h) The Reduction and Prevention of Agricultural Diffuse Pollution (England) Regulations 2018 (also known as the Farming Rules for Water),

(i) The Marine Strategy Regulations 2010,

(j) The Marine Works (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2007,

(k) The Infrastructure Planning (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2017,

(l) The Plant Protection Products Regulations 1107/2009,

(m) The Sustainable Use Directive Regulation (EC) 396/2005,

(n) The National Emission Ceilings Regulations 2018,

(o) Invasive Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order (2019),

(p) Directive 2010/63 on the protection of animals used for scientific purposes,

(q) Directive 1999/74 laying down minimum standards for the protection of laying hens,

(r) Regulation 139/2013 laying down animal health conditions for imports of certain birds into the Union and the quarantine conditions thereof, and

(s) The Welfare of Animals (Transport) (England) Order 2006.”

This amendment would exclude certain legislation which provides for environmental protections from the sunset in subsection (1).

Amendment 24, page 1, line 9, at end insert—

“(2A) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following instruments—

(a) The Civil Aviation (Denied Boarding, Compensation and Assistance) Regulations 2005,

(b) Regulation (EC) No 1371/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 October 2007 on rail passengers’ rights and obligations,

(c) The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012,

(d) The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016,

(e) The Toys (Safety) Regulations 2011,

(f) The Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012,

(g) The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015,

(h) The Cocoa and Chocolate Products (England) Regulations 2003,

(i) Commission Regulation (EU) No 748/2012 of 3 August 2012,

(j) The Representation of the People (England and Wales) Regulations 2001, and

(k) The Bauer [C-168/18] and Hampshire [C-17/17] judgements.”

This amendment would exclude certain retained EU law which provides for consumer protections from the sunset in subsection (1).

Amendment 36, page 1, line 12, at end insert—

“(3A) The Secretary of State must, no later than three months before the date specified in subsection (1), publish a list of all legislation being revoked under this section (the “revocation list”) and lay a copy before Parliament.

(3B) With each update of the revocation list up to the date specified in subsection (1), the Secretary of State must lay an updated copy of the revocation list before Parliament.

(3C) Any legislation not included in the revocation list, as updated, on the date specified in subsection (1) is not revoked.

(3D) At any time before the date specified in subsection (1), the House of Commons may by resolution amend the revocation list by adding or removing instruments specified in the resolution, and the Secretary of State must accordingly lay the updated revocation list before Parliament.

(3E) At any time before the date specified in subsection (1), the House of Lords may by resolution propose amendment of the revocation list by adding or removing instruments specified in the resolution.

(3F) If the House of Commons does not pass a motion disagreeing with a resolution of the House of Lords under subsection (3E) within ten days of the date of that resolution, the Secretary of State must amend the revocation list in accordance with the resolution of the House of Lords and lay the updated version before Parliament.

(3G) If the Secretary of State does not amend the revocation list when required to do so by paragraphs (3D) or (3F) before the date specified in paragraph (1), the revocation list will be deemed to have been amended as specified in the resolution of the relevant House of Parliament, and the relevant legislation will be treated as though the change has been made.

(3H) Any legislation to which section (3C) applies is not to be considered as either retained EU law or assimilated law.”

This amendment would require the Government to publish an exhaustive list of every piece of legislation being revoked under the Sunset Clause, and allow for Parliamentary oversight of this process so that it is the House of Commons which has the ultimate say on which legislation is affected.

Amendment 29, in clause 2, page 2, line 12, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) has effect in relation to provision which is within the competence of the Scottish Ministers as if, after “A Minister of the Crown”, there were inserted “or the Scottish Ministers”.

(1B) A provision is within the devolved competence of the Scottish Ministers for the purposes of this section if—

(a) it would be within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament if it were contained in an Act of that Parliament, or

(b) it is provision which could be made in other subordinate legislation by the Scottish Ministers, the First Minister or the Lord Advocate acting alone.”

This amendment clarifies what provisions would be devolved and therefore under the competence of Scottish Ministers for decision, rather than a Secretary of State.

Amendment 39, page 2, line 12, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) has effect in relation to provision which is within the competence of the Welsh Ministers as if, after “A Minister of the Crown”, there were inserted “or the Welsh Ministers”.

(1B) A provision is within the devolved competence of the Welsh Ministers for the purposes of this section if—

(a) it would be within the legislative competence of Senedd Cymru if it were contained in an Act of Senedd Cymru, or

(b) it is provision which could be made in other subordinate legislation by the Welsh Ministers acting alone.”

This amendment clarifies what provisions would be devolved and therefore under the competence of Welsh Ministers for decision, rather than a Secretary of State.

Government amendments 1, 3 and 6.

Amendment 26, in clause 7, page 4, line 36, at end insert—

“(d) the undesirability of disturbing settled understandings of the law, on the basis of which individuals and businesses may have made decisions of importance to them;

(e) the importance of legal certainty, clarity and predictability; and

(f) the principle that significant changes in the law should be made by Parliament (or, as the case may be, the relevant devolved legislature).”

This amendment adds further conditions for higher courts to regard when deciding to diverge from retained EU case law.

Government amendments 7 to 17 and 2.

Amendment 20, in clause 15, page 17, line 28, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following instruments—

(a) Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999,

(b) Children and Young Person Working Time Regulations 1933,

(c) Posted Workers (Enforcement of Employment Rights) Regulations 2020,

(d) Part Time Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000,

(e) Fixed-Term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2002,

(f) Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006,

(g) Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 2004,

(h) Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005,

(i) Working Time Regulations 1998,

(j) Agency Workers Regulations 2010,

(k) Maternity and Parental Leave etc Regulations 1999,

(l) Trade Secrets (Enforcement etc) Regulations 2018 and

(m) The Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996.”

This amendment would exclude certain legislation which provides for workers’ protections from the power to revoke without replacement in subsection (1).

Amendment 22, page 17, line 28, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following instruments—

(a) The REACH Regulation and the REACH Enforcement Regulations 2008,

(b) The Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2017,

(c) The Conservation of Offshore Marine Habitats and Species Regulations 2017,

(d) The Urban Waste Water Treatment (England and Wales) Regulations 1994,

(e) The Water Resources (Control of Pollution) (Silage, Slurry and Agricultural Fuel Oil) (England) Regulations 2010,

(f) The Bathing Waters Regulations 2013,

(g) Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) (England and Wales) Regulations 2017,

(h) The Reduction and Prevention of Agricultural Diffuse Pollution (England) Regulations 2018 (also known as the Farming Rules for Water),

(i) The Marine Strategy Regulations 2010,

(j) The Marine Works (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2007,

(k) The Infrastructure Planning (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2017,

(l) The Plant Protection Products Regulations 1107/2009,

(m) The Sustainable Use Directive Regulation (EC) 396/2005,

(n) The National Emission Ceilings Regulations 2018,

(o) Invasive Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order (2019)

(p) Directive 2010/63 on the protection of animals used for scientific purposes,

(q) Directive 1999/74 laying down minimum standards for the protection of laying hens,

(r) Regulation 139/2013 laying down animal health conditions for imports of certain birds into the Union and the quarantine conditions thereof, and

(s) The Welfare of Animals (Transport) (England) Order 2006.”

This amendment would exclude certain legislation which provides for environmental protections from the power to revoke without replacement in subsection (1).

Amendment 25, page 17, line 28, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to the following instruments—

(a) The Civil Aviation (Denied Boarding, Compensation and Assistance) Regulations 2005,

(b) Regulation (EC) No 1371/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 October 2007 on rail passengers’ rights and obligations,

(c) The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012,

(d) The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016,

(e) The Toys (Safety) Regulations 2011,

(f) The Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012,

(g) The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015,

(h) The Cocoa and Chocolate Products (England) Regulations 2003,

(i) Commission Regulation (EU) No 748/2012 of 3 August 2012,

(j) The Representation of the People (England and Wales) Regulations 2001, and

(k) The Bauer [C-168/18] and Hampshire [C-17/17] judgements.”

This amendment would exclude certain legislation which provides for consumer protections from the power to revoke without replacement in subsection (1).

Amendment 34, page 18, line 12, at end insert—

“(4A) No regulations may be made under this section unless the conditions set out in section [Conditions on the exercise of powers under section 15 and 16] have been complied with.”

This amendment ensures that the powers to revoke or replace would be subject to restrictions as laid out in NC3.

Amendment 23, page 18, line 13, leave out subsections (5) and (6).

This amendment will remove the restriction on the replacement of EU law that states it must not add to the regulatory burden.

Amendment 35, in clause 16, page 19, line 9, at end insert—

“(3) No regulations may be made under this section unless the conditions set out in section [Conditions on the exercise of powers under section 15 and 16] have been complied with.”

This amendment would ensure that the power to update would be subject to the restrictions laid out in NC3.

Amendment 30, in clause 20, page 20, line 38, at end insert—

“(1A) A Minister of the Crown may not include in regulations under this Act any provision which is within the devolved competence of any devolved authority as defined in paragraph 2 of Schedule 2.”

This amendment adds protection for devolved competence, denying any Secretary of State the chance to revoke REUL within devolved competence.

Government amendments 4 and 5.

Government new schedule 1—“Assimilated law”: consequential amendments.

Amendment 31, in schedule 3, page 34, line 38, at end insert—

“Consent of Scottish Ministers

8A Before making regulations to which this Part of this Schedule applies, a Minister of the Crown must obtain the consent of the Scottish Ministers.”

This amendment modifies the powers which are conferred on Ministers of the Crown in devolved areas so that they may only be exercised with the consent of the Scottish Ministers.

[Ms Ghani]

It is a pleasure to be here, and I thank all Members who have tabled new amendments and new clauses and who will speak in the debate. I also thank the members of the Public Bill Committee for their work.

I will address the Government new clauses and amendments first, but I will say more about them in my closing speech when other Members have had a chance to contribute. I will also address some of the concerns that have been raised, and some of the misinformation about the Bill.

The Government new clauses and amendments are minor and technical. They cover four areas. The first is updating the definition of “assimilated law” and how it should be interpreted, and, in the case law provisions, ensuring that the High Court of Justiciary is covered in all instances. I thank the Scottish Government for their engagement: there has been engagement between our officials and those in the Scottish Government, and with the Advocate General. Our new clauses also clarify the fact that the use of extension power also applies to amendments to retained EU law made between the extension regulations and the sunset, and clarify the application of clause 14 to codification as well as restatement. These are technical drafting measures, and I ask the House to support them.

Let me now explain why the Bill is crucial for the UK. My explanation will directly cover many of the new clauses and amendments. The Bill will end the special status of retained EU law on the UK statute book by the end of 2023. It constitutes a process. Considerable work has been done with officials across Whitehall and with the devolved authorities; that work has been proportionate, and has been taking place for over 18 months. I cannot stress enough the importance of achieving the 2023 deadline. Retained EU law was never intended to sit on the statute book indefinitely. It is constitutionally undesirable, as some domestic laws, including Acts of Parliament, currently remain subordinate to some retained EU law. The continued existence on our statute book of the principle of supremacy of EU law is just not right, as we are a sovereign nation with a sovereign Parliament.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

The Government are committed to tackling fuel poverty, and I welcome the work of National Energy Action, which published its Fuel Poverty Monitor today to highlight the difficult situation in which many households have found themselves. Just as we provided support during covid, we are providing it now. I believe that the report looked fundamentally at means-tested benefits, pensioners and those with disabilities. The Government have committed £26 billion for 2023-24, including £900 for households on means-tested benefits, £300 for pensioners and £150 for those with disabilities, as well as an extra £1 billion to allow the extension of the household support fund. However, I know that we will continue to do more.

[Mr Speaker]

I think we have got the message.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I think it is only being seen as inconsistent with some of the proposals provided by the Scottish Government. We will be investing £1 billion to support carbon capture and storage in four industrial clusters by 2030. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: for us to have an energy mix, we need oil and gas and we need it here in the UK, because obviously there is less of a carbon footprint if we are not shipping it in.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Minister must let the hon. Gentleman finish before she goes to the Dispatch Box. I cannot have both of you on your feet at the same time.

[Ms Ghani]

I am sorry, Mr Speaker. I was not sure if there was one question there or just a lot.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I think I will decide that.

[Ms Ghani]

Forgive me, Mr Speaker. Just to clarify, the Secretary of State did meet that individual at COP. Within the hon. Member’s few sentences, I will address the issue of Acorn, which was a sensible point. The promise of Government is to progress carbon capture, usage and storage at pace, and Acorn submitted a bid into the track 1 sequencing process, forming the reserve cluster. Should either of the track 1 clusters not be able to deliver, we would call on the Scottish cluster instead.

COP27

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Monday 21st November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend hits it on the head. When local leadership delivers net zero targets, so much can be achieved. I was the buses Minister in a previous life, so his question is close to my heart. I am so pleased that Coventry will be the first place in the country to be driving forward so many electric buses, with the £150 million grant that has been made available.

I know that the previous COP President said that the 1.5° target was hanging by a thread, but there is so much that came out of COP27 that we should be proud of. The Prime Minister reinforced the UK commitment to deliver £11.6 billion in climate finance and announced a tripling of funding for climate adaptation, to £1.5 billion in 2025. The UK also announced a further £65.5 million for the clean energy innovation facility, which provides grants to researchers and scientists in developing countries to accelerate the development of clean technologies. So not only are we leading with policy; we are also trying to help other countries to be part of the net zero technology revolution.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend is a true champion for his constituents, and I know energy bills are at the forefront of all our minds after spending another weekend at home in our constituencies dealing with the concerns of our constituents. Most of our constituents understand that energy security is now an issue, and they appreciate that the pressure on energy prices is down to Putin and his illegal invasion of Ukraine. This also shows that we have to be opportunistic in ensuring that we invest in the right technologies and the right renewables to ensure we are resilient and sovereign at home when it comes to fuel.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson, Deidre Brock.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

The Minister should sit down until the Member sits down, so that I know who is standing. You cannot both stand at the same time—that includes me. [Interruption.] I also do not need any help from the Back Benches.

[Ms Ghani]

I was so keen to answer the hon. Gentleman’s important question. The answer to all those points is yes.

[Mr Speaker]

That completes that urgent question.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I note that the hon. Member has raised the issue a number of times with BEIS. I am grateful that he has done so again. We are encouraged to hear about the development of new hydrogen technologies in Swansea. I know that the previous Secretary of State visited Swansea University. A range of Government support is already available for hydrogen production. The net zero hydrogen fund, the net zero innovation portfolio and the UK shared prosperity fund would help very much in Swansea.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

T9. I have 14 vineyards in my constituency of Wealden. This is a growing industry in rural areas. I am grateful to the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury for meeting me recently, but may I urge her and the Chancellor to meet my vineyard owners, face to face, to hear their anxieties over the Treasury’s plans to hike tax on wine, which will create more red tape by increasing the number of rates of duty from three to 27? This industry creates thousands of jobs and it needs nurturing, so may I please propose a visit to one of my vineyards in Wealden?

[Mr Speaker]

It has to be a yes to that.

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) on securing the urgent question. The secessionists, having denied the genocide and tried to discredit the post-war Bosnian state, have created a crisis that could get violent. I know that the Minister has offered a commitment, but as he has heard today from hon. Members, we want the issue dialled up to a priority, whether that is through challenging the EU’s failure, putting pressure on China and Russia, or even making troops available, not just to protect but to collect evidence of any atrocities that may take place.

There is a red line that the Minister can draw right here, right now. Ministers have repeatedly said that we recognise genocide only when it is declared by the UN. The UN has declared a genocide. The Office of the High Representative has said that anyone who denies that genocide was committed will face a sentence. Perhaps the Minister could say that we stand behind that statement.

[Mr Speaker]

We will have to speed up if we are going to get through all the questions.

Belarus: Interception of Aircraft

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Monday 24th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

I congratulate my constituency neighbour, the Chair the Foreign Affairs Committee, on securing this urgent question. I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s very swift statements on how to respond to this hijacking, but I want to push him a little bit further. I am anxious that the tactics used recently will encourage other curious countries. What confidence can the Foreign Secretary give to journalists, activists or other individuals who are sanctioned for spurious reasons, in case their lives may now be under threat; what work can be done to strengthen western allies to ensure that their safety is met?

With your indulgence, Mr Speaker—piracy has been mentioned a few times and as the previous Maritime Minister, I cannot let this point go. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that the tactics that have played out may encourage countries such as China, which claims sovereignty over the whole South China sea? A third of the world’s maritime trade crosses through those waters, and if China could claim the right to intercept any ship or any plane crossing over the South China sea—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I allowed the hon. Lady a little latitude, but I think it is a bit much to take complete control of the debate; we want short questions.

Points of Order

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 4th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I seek guidance on the powers of the House to summon witnesses to attend Select Committee inquiries and answer questions on their businesses’ involvement in UK matters? I ask this because there is a very real public concern about Disney, which made the film “Mulan” among the Uyghur slave camps in Xinjiang, and is therefore implicated in the mass human rights abuses of the Uyghur people by the Chinese state and may be profiting from them.

You might have thought that Disney would want to come in front of the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee to explain its position, but Disney—a firm based in Hammersmith and with a substantial footprint in the UK—and its representative, Jan Koeppen, are refusing to attend. Can you advise what steps can be taken to ensure that Disney fulfils its obligations, not only to Parliament but to the public? Can you confirm that the House can require Disney to attend and that a refusal could be a blatant contempt of Parliament? What should the Committee do next?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving me notice of her intention to raise this matter. It is very important that Select Committees have access to witnesses to assist them in carrying out their important work, and I am sure representatives of Disney will have heard what she has said. What I would say to Disney is that it is a major corporation, and it is good at communications, so I would expect it to reflect what it does as a business. If witnesses refuse to attend when invited, it is open to Committees to summon them formally. If a witness fails to appeal when summoned, I would expect that to be reported to the House. Consideration could then be given to how the matter could be taken forward. As I understand that the Committee has not yet taken the first step, which only it can do at this stage, it is therefore a matter for the Chair of the Committee. With the hon. Lady’s good offices, I do not think this will rest here today.

Universal Credit Project Assessment Reviews

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The hon. Lady has made a speech; we will have short interventions.

[Ms Ghani]

That is where the work coach should be able to help. The hon. Lady should be challenging the work coaches in that community. People are moving on: they are able to get a loan to get an education and change the life choices available to them.

With its one simple payment and gradual introduction, universal credit is flexible enough to respond to any technical issues. Previously, the existence of six different benefits was an overbearing and bureaucratic mess. The system was expensive to administer; it was confusing to understand; and, most of all, it was demoralising to boot. The results so far show that universal credit is working: people claiming universal credit are 13% more likely to be in work than people claiming jobseeker’s allowance, and they are earning more money and are more likely to take on a job.

Such drastic reform will always come with complications, and over the past four years, imperfections have been uncovered and brought to light. I am pleased that the Government have listened and acted to improve universal credit, by ensuring that it achieves its original goals. The £1.5 billion package to address the delivery concerns will be welcomed across the country in places where universal credit has yet to be rolled out. The removal of the seven-day waiting period will mean that applicants will be entitled to receive universal credit from the first day of application. Those who need it can also now access up to a month’s worth of universal credit within five days via an interest-free advance. I cannot be the only Member of Parliament who has struggled to deal with constituents who have been made to feel insecure and afraid to access the welfare to which they are entitled, because they are made to feel that, somehow, it will work against them. The free support phone line is also welcome. These important changes mean that we are not letting down those who need our support the most.

Universal credit is committed to helping people into work, and, once in work, to help them progress and increase their earnings, providing security and opportunities for them and their families. It is important that the Government are fully committed to the gradual roll-out, giving the ever reducing numbers of unemployed people a greater chance of the security that only a job can provide. We must not revert to the old failing system where 1.5 million people were trapped in out-of-work benefits for a decade.

If people are not convinced by my arguments, let me quote the chief executive of St Mungo’s:

“We have been calling for a new strategy to tackle homelessness. I welcome the opportunity to work with the taskforce to end the national scandal of rough sleeping altogether. We are also pleased to see a number of changes to Universal Credit that St Mungo’s had been calling for, particularly the removal of the seven day waiting period and the extension of the repayment period for advances to 12 months.”

I will end by quoting someone from Citizen’s Advice, because we all reach out to them when we are dealing with difficult constituency work. The chief executive said:

“The £1.5 billion package for Universal Credit announced in the Budget last week will directly help millions of the most vulnerable people.”

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

1st reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 28th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way? [Hon. Members: “ Oh.”] I will be very quick. Is my hon. Friend also thankful for the £21 million—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Two people cannot be stood at the same time.

Come on, Nusrat!

[Ms Ghani]

Is my hon. Friend also thankful for the extra £21 million that will be invested in science and tech, helping us to create the jobs of the future?

Scamming: Vulnerable Individuals

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 8th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Julian Knight) for bringing this important debate to the Floor of the House. I am going to focus on scams targeted at the elderly. As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on older people and ageing, I hosted the launch of the first report of the Sussex Elders Commission. This was the first listening exercise of its kind for older people, and it received almost 2,500 responses from elderly residents of Sussex about policing, crime and community safety. It asked them about their concerns and what they feared most about staying safe. Their concerns about scamming were profound.

Based on projections from national data, the commission estimated that there could be as many as 13,000 cases of elder abuse in any given year in Sussex alone—two counties with a combined population of only 1.6 million. For example, the commission heard that one man’s elderly brother was dying of cancer and quite frail. He was persuaded to pay £2,000 for essential roof and damp repairs, but the only work completed was some painting over of the damp. A couple aged 85 and 86 were scammed out of £8,000 through a postal scam, and their daughter lost money in the process of trying to recover the funds. Another woman was charged £450 for a minor building repair that was subsequently valued at £30.

Scams targeted at elderly people purposely target vulnerable people. The perpetrators see them as more trusting and less inquisitive. They may be less mobile and more easily cornered. Perhaps they are lonely and isolated, and therefore more welcoming of contact from other people, whether strangers or not. They might just be keener to ensure someone leaves them alone, and therefore more willing to pay a price in order to get rid of them, just because it is easier. Also, some older people might not have all their faculties and might not be aware that they have become a victim of a scam.

The scammers formulate a scheme designed to prey on those characteristics, particularly the vulnerability and isolation of older people. Even worse, they are able to pull this off while the victim is at their own front door, sitting in their living room using their own phone, opening their own post or responding to what seems like a personal email. As a result of the impact of such scamming, one in five older people in Sussex is afraid to answer the phone in their own home. These scams are carried out not only by strangers in far-flung countries or nearby communities, but by members of the victim’s own family, or perhaps by a carer or close friend. An investigation by The Times earlier this year found that adult social services had received allegations of 21,935 cases of theft and fraud against elderly victims in the 12 months to March 2016.

I welcome the Home Office’s creation of a joint fraud taskforce in February this year to develop better solutions to address the increasingly common nature of these types of crime. Age UK is also doing very good work, including in my own county of East Sussex where the average high-risk victim loses £23,000 over a three-month period. It provides support services to victims, with an individual support plan to address their needs, including advice on handling unexpected calls. But as a society we also need to do more to encourage family members to better protect and look after their elderly relatives. For example, investing in hidden cameras for an elderly relative’s home can make it easier for the police to catch regular perpetrators. One of the big issues at the moment is that it is too easy for them to get away with it and repeat the crime. We have heard a lot about call blocking technology, but it is incredibly difficult for older people to install it themselves, so we should urge family members to do that for their elderly relatives.

We have heard about a duty of care, whether on the part of postal workers or of bank staff, and I believe that that should go further. I suggest that scams targeting the elderly be re-categorised as an aggravated crime, because they specifically target a vulnerable person. This could form part of a new type of crime named elder abuse, and I appeal to Members to support my campaign to change the law to recognise this new type of crime. We already treat child abuse as a separate crime, and while I obviously recognise the real differences between physical child abuse and scams against the elderly, both are especially repugnant because they target those least able to defend and protect themselves.

San Diego in America has an official elder abuse prosecution unit. As the Ministry of Justice conducts its review of sentencing, I would strongly encourage it to make elder abuse a priority focus. We should draw on initiatives such as the one in San Diego, where the reporting of elder abuse is mandatory. Referrals follow a checked process which makes it easier to collect evidence and to prosecute, and caseworkers are assigned to any older person who is seen as the victim of abuse or a scam. Anyone who betrays the trust placed in them by the elderly, or who specifically targets the elderly because they are trusting—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The hon. Lady’s time is up.