Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase 2 Report

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 4th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I thank the Prime Minister for his remarks about the need for caution in comments relating to particular legal cases or inquests. I repeat the waiver that I granted under the sub judice rule on 21 June 2022, and I appeal to all Members absolutely to speak, but to be cautious about what they say.

I now call the Mother of the House.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister recognise how painful it must be for the Grenfell community to have had that tower looming over them for seven years, and for it to have taken seven years even to reach this stage? Having visited Grenfell, he will be aware that most of the 72 who died were among the most marginalised, and that they were largely people of migrant heritage. Can he give an assurance that the bereaved will receive all the support they need, including financial support, and can he also give an assurance that it will not take another seven years to bring those responsible to justice?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that question. She is absolutely right to focus on the community and the bereaved. Decisions on a memorial, whatever form it takes, must be taken in consultation with the community, and I give an absolute commitment that we will do that as well as providing the support that they need. During my visit, I had a sense—just a small sense—of just how painful this must have been and continues to be. We cannot allow another seven years to pass before we take the necessary action.

Election of Speaker

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Tuesday 9th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Speaker-Elect on his election. He has been Speaker through tumultuous times, but he has never failed to serve with grace, expertise and fairness. I also congratulate the 304 new Members entering Parliament after the election, and say to them: it is a great job, and you will never regret coming here. I congratulate the officers of the House, who have organised such a meticulous and careful induction. When I was a new MP, they just gave you a bunch of keys and told you to get on with it.

When I was a new Member in 1987, there were only 40 female Members of Parliament. Today, we have 264. Some of us are glad that we have lived to see this. I cannot speak about the increased number of female Members of Parliament without referencing my predecessor, Baroness Harriet Harman, who did so much work to have an equal and diverse House.

We are going into very tumultuous times. Historically, the House has played a role in events both national and international. I am sure that it will be the same going forward, and that we will be presided over excellently by the Speaker-Elect.

[Mr Speaker-Elect]

I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Monday 14th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The Home Secretary might not like it, but if I may give her some positive advice, when you answer a question you are meant to look to the Chair. That is all I will say.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary insists that the agreement announced today represents a step forward, but is she able to tell the House whether it will mean fewer small boats crossing the channel?

[Suella Braverman]

A large win from the agreement is that there will be more French gendarmes patrolling the French beaches. There is a 40% uplift to the number of personnel that the French are deploying. That must be a success, and I encourage the right hon. Lady to welcome it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Monday 24th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Question 6 has been withdrawn.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

7. Whether he is taking steps to tackle educational underachievement of black children.

Police Grant Report

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Tuesday 5th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ms Abbott]

The precept is a regressive tax that bears down disproportionately—[Interruption.] Had the hon. Lady waited, I might have given way.

The precept is a regressive tax that bears down disproportionately on poorer people and poorer regions. It is unfair on the population within a given region and it is unfair between regions. As the Police Federation said:

“They are passing the buck of funding the police service to the public by doubling the council tax precept that police and crime commissioners are allowed to charge.”

This is no way to fund a cohesive police force.

We see a rise in violent crime, cuts to police numbers and increasing concern about public safety. This Government have let down ordinary police officers and the public. Their overall management of police funding is demonstrably poor. And no, we will not be joining the Home Secretary in the Lobby tonight.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Lots of Members wish to speak and I want to get everybody in, because this issue is important to every Member of Parliament. My suggestion is that we have a six-minute time limit, but those who can speak for less than six minutes will be very welcome.

Windrush: 70th Anniversary

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Thursday 14th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Ms Abbott]

That is an excellent point, and many of the Windrush generation people I have met or tried to help have been completely frustrated by the fact that they had a whole ream of paper showing that they had been paying tax for all these years, but still the Home Office rejected their claim that they had been legally here.

I am afraid to say that this is a product of a system put in place by this Government, and if anyone doubts that, they have to answer this question: who was it who said we would deport first and ask questions later? Was that not announcing in advance that people who were entitled to be here may well be deported and treated as if they were here illegally, and then they could appeal? Anyone who has ever dealt with Home Office appeals procedures must know what that means: the chances of the removal decision being overturned are vanishingly small. Of course, it was the Prime Minister who said we would deport first and have appeals later. Why she was speaking in that mode I cannot say, but some say it was all about chasing UK Independence party votes.

In any event, the Windrush scandal was the consequence. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central has, I think, written to the Prime Minister asking whether she was warned. She was warned: I warned her here in this Chamber when we debated the Immigration Act 2014 that the consequence of an Act designed to catch illegal immigrants in its net would be that people who just looked like immigrants would be caught up, and that is what we are seeing with the Windrush scandal.

Looking ahead, the new Home Secretary clearly does not want to go the way of his predecessor, and he clearly wants to put the scandal behind him, but it is a product of policy, not accidents, and that policy will continue to generate scandals for the waves of migrants who came after 1948, all the way up to 1973, and it will draw in broader and broader categories of people from the Commonwealth. This policy will continue to do that until it goes.

The Windrush generation came here to see the mother country. Some came to rejoin the RAF. Others just wanted new and more prosperous lives for themselves and their families, and they were what are now sometimes called economic migrants. In coming here, they enriched this country in so many ways: culturally, socially and economically. In our own cafeteria here, one of the most popular dishes, week in and week out, is jerk chicken with rice and peas. I could never have imagined that I would live to see that.

In general, a more diverse society is a more interesting one, a more challenging one and a more prosperous one. There is, however, an unfortunate aspect to this history, as some of my hon. Friends have mentioned. Despite being invited here—my own mother was recruited in the Caribbean—the Windrush generation did not always receive a warm welcome. There is an unfortunate history in this country of sometimes defaulting to seeing categories of good immigrants and bad immigrants. For a long time, anyone from the Caribbean tended to be treated as a bad immigrant, with all the stereotypes that were ascribed to black Britons. I have lived long enough to see things move on, however, and we now sometimes hear people who are happy to say the most vile things about Muslims and eastern Europeans exempting black people from their vitriol. History takes some surprising turns.

The Windrush generation—including people from the Caribbean as well as people from Poland by way of Mexico, and all the people from other countries who got off that ship in 1948—came here for a better life for themselves and their families, and they all made a contribution to our society and our prosperity. We were literally better off because of them, and that is what their modern-day counterparts are also doing.

Before moving to a close, I want to mention someone who has not received enough public tributes. Patrick Vernon is a social historian and grassroots campaigner, and he has led the campaign for a Windrush Day. I also want to add to what my hon. Friends have said about the importance of establishing a hardship fund. I have met members of the Windrush generation who have had to live off the charity of friends and family and who have run up debts because of all the uncertainty about their immigration situation. We really need a hardship fund to be put in place now. Those people cannot wait for the conclusion of the consultation on compensation. We also need to look at the workings of the Windrush taskforce, to see whether it is meeting the targets that it set itself to resolve cases. Some of the cases that I and my hon. Friends are dealing with seem to suggest that that it is not. Again, I join other hon. Friends in calling for an official Windrush Day.

Everyone in this House thinks fondly of their parents, but I can speak with confidence on behalf of myself, my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central and my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham when I say that if it were not for the courage, the hard work and the vision of our parents, none of us would be in this Chamber this afternoon as Members of Parliament. The Windrush generation has had a number of important effects, but none has been more important than forcing people to look at migrants as people—people with families, people with histories and people just like other people. If we could only extend the humanisation of the debate on migration from the Windrush generation to migrants of all generations and all times, we would achieve what I am committed to seeing—namely, a very different type of conversation on migration. We could achieve a change in the debate on migration. It should not have to take 60 years for people to recognise the contribution of a group of migrants to this country. I stand here bearing witness, and hoping for a better future when we come to discuss issues around migration.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I call Nigel Adams.

Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons
Monday 11th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Just to advise Members who may want to speak at length later, they will have up to 15 minutes and no more.

[Ms Abbott]

I have visited Prevent programmes and I am aware that good work is being done, but the figure that 95% of deradicalisation programmes are not effective should not be put to one side. We have to address it and we have to address whether there is any connection at all with the fact that Prevent is a tainted brand among the members of some communities.

Serious Violence Strategy

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Tuesday 22nd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. If you want to speak, I can put you on the list. Short interventions, please; it will help the House.

[Ms Abbott]

Serious violence is not just a big-city phenomenon. Earlier, after some of my hon. Friends’ interventions, the hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) said that this was artificial politics. Let me say to the House that nothing could be more real than mothers crying over their dead sons, and nothing could be more real than keeping our constituents safe. This is not a parliamentary game; this is about our constituents’ lives.

Windrush

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 2nd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I am sorry; I normally am heard, but I have a very quiet voice, as you well know. Lots of people here have a very keen interest in this debate, and I want to make sure that everybody who has put their name in does speak. If we are going to have interventions, will those who are hoping to speak please try not to intervene? You will end up moving yourself down the list—and please, interventions must be short.

[Ms Abbott]

I listened with interest to what the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) said, but he will understand that this debate is being watched all over the Commonwealth, and by the Windrush generation people themselves, and it is important that we all show a genuine concern, because they are the focus of the debate.

The Windrush scandal raises a number of issues of paramount importance. The first duty of the state is to defend the safety and security of its citizens, but under this Government’s policies we have a situation where citizens of this country are being denied their liberty through immigration detention, are being refused re-entry to this, their own country, have been made homeless or jobless, have been denied NHS treatment and have been left destitute. They have been, and continue to be, threatened with deportation. We have a situation where some citizens of this country do not have their security and safety defended. In fact, the agency undermining their safety and security is this Government and their policies.

Let me turn to the role of the Prime Minister, both currently and in her previous position as Home Secretary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Let me reassure the House: it is up to the Member who is speaking whether they— [Interruption.] Order. Thank you for the advice, but I am quite capable of speaking for myself. What I would say is that it is up to the Member who is speaking whether they give way or not. I want to make sure that everybody gets in. Quite rightly, if the shadow Home Secretary does not want to give way, she does not need to.

[Ms Abbott]

I am conscious that a number of hon. Members want to contribute to the debate, and therefore I am anxious to make progress.

So given that the Prime Minister knew so much about the target regime, we have to wonder, when she heard the various denials from the former Home Secretary, why did she not think to correct the record, or at least advise the then Home Secretary accurately to correct the record. Why did she not do that?

The Prime Minister’s record and her responsibility are clear. We have had go-home vans; the “deport first, appeal later” policy; targets for removals and for unsuccessful immigration appeals; protections against—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Can we please have a little less noise from the Back Benches? The right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) will be called to speak early in the debate and we want to hear her contribution, so I do not want her to waste her voice by shouting too much.

[Ms Abbott]

Do Government Members understand how voting against this motion will look to the Commonwealth and the Windrush generation here? Do Government Members understand how the laughter that we heard a few minutes ago will be seen by the Windrush generation? It is as if they do not take this issue seriously.

[Anna Soubry]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Could the record show that there was no laughter on these Benches, as has just been alleged?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

That is certainly not a point of order, but I can assure hon. Members that there was laughter from both sides of the House.

[Ms Abbott]

As I was saying, Members of the Windrush generation and people who live in Commonwealth countries will be watching this debate, and they will have heard Government Members laugh. They will get the sense that Government Members are not taking this matter entirely seriously.

[Dr Murrison]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The right hon. Lady just referred to this as a debate. I seek your guidance on whether this can legitimately be described as a debate given that the right hon. Lady consistently refuses to take interventions from Conservative Members.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Dr Murrison, you and I both know that that is definitely not a point of order. I will repeat what I said at the beginning, which is that it is up to each individual whether they wish to give way. That is how the House works and it is how the House will continue.

[Ms Abbott]

I remind the Home Secretary of the information that many of us campaigning on the issue want. We want to have the figures for deportations. Ministers are currently saying that there have been no deportations.

[James Cartlidge]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order to table a motion that calls on the sovereign potentially to breach the Data Protection Act 1998 and, in particular, the general data protection regulation rules that will be coming into force in two weeks’ time in relation to text messages?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I am getting very worried that somebody just might make a point of order, but that is definitely not one.

[Ms Abbott]

I said at the beginning of my speech that we should focus on the Windrush generation. It will not look well to them or any of our constituents if Government Members seek to go off on some kind of tangent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I think the right hon. Lady has given notice that she will not be giving way.

[Ms Abbott]

We need to know more about the process—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. The House must come to order. I want to hear this debate. We have constituents who want to hear this debate. This debate is very important to this country and the people of this country.

[Ms Abbott]

I simply want to respond to the Home Secretary by saying that I have been online condemning the racist abuse against him. I know what racist abuse is. Everyone in the Opposition, without exception, condemns the names that he has been called.

NHS Sustainability and Transformation Plans

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 14th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ms Abbott]

In some cases, even local GPs have not been fully involved in decision making. Hon. Members may not take that seriously, but I assure them that their constituents will. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. It is up to the hon. Lady whether she wishes to give way or not. Shouting and screaming will not help with the debate, because Members on both sides want to hear. I am sure that, when she wants to give way, she will do so, but screaming will not help, and it certainly does not help my ears.

[Ms Abbott]

GP leaders in Birmingham said that it would appear that plans by the STP to transform general practice, and to transform massive amounts of secondary care work into general practice, are already far advanced. Only at this late stage have they been shared with GP provider representatives.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

It is for me to make that decision. I am quite happy for the shadow Secretary of State to decide whether she wishes to give way or not. In fairness, this is an Opposition debate, and the hon. Lady is leading it. Let us not have any more pointless points of order. I am worried about how many Members want to speak; I want to try to get everybody in.

[Ms Abbott]

So when the STPs talk about efficiency, they actually mean cuts. Increasingly at the heart of these STPs are asset sales of land or buildings to cover deficits. No wonder the leader of Hammersmith and Fulham Council, Stephen Cowan, has said of his local STPs that

“this is about closing hospitals and getting capital receipts”.

He went on:

“It’s a cynical rehash of earlier plans. It’s about the breaking up and the selling off of the NHS.”

Housing

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ms Abbott]

On the question of forcing housing associations to sell their properties, does the Secretary of State not have even a flicker of guilt about trying to bribe the electorate with assets that the Government do not own?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Hoyle)]

Order. The Minister has spoken for nearly 30 minutes and I am bothered about the amount of time remaining as we still have another Front Bencher.

National Health Service

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

I am in no turmoil whatever. I will be walking through the Lobby with pride behind my hon. Friends. We cannot know exactly how much a mansion tax, if levied, would raise towards the national health service. What we do know is that the British people who want to save the national health service from the depredations of Government Members have to vote Labour. We have to vote for my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) to become Secretary of State for Health—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We do not need a statement; we have got the message.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ms Abbott]

On the question of children, is the right hon. Gentleman arguing that couples who are infertile or couples who marry when the female partner is past the age of childbearing—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We are not talking about infertile couples. Unfortunately, we are on the humanist part of the Bill, and that is what we will discuss. Fortunately or unfortunately—depending on which way we look at it—we must try to speak to the amendments if we can. I hope, Mr Hughes, that you are not going to tempt many others down another track.

Contaminated Blood and Blood Products

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Diane Abbott

Thursday 14th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s excellent point. One thing that I was slightly disappointed about in the ministerial statement was the fact that those discussions clearly have not taken place. Some of the statement’s specifics are very welcome, particularly its point about the terms of reference and, notably, the fact that the level of payment to people with hepatitis C might be equalised.

[Ms Abbott]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You will be aware that “Mr Secretary Lansley” and “Anne Milton” tabled an amendment that is on the Order Paper and includes the figure “£3 billion”. Some Opposition Members feel that this debate cannot go forward until we have some clarification of its accuracy.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

A point of order takes up valuable time, too. I recognise that you wanted to make it, but you will have the opportunity to put the case a little later. What we ought to try to do is respect all Members. I want to try to get in all those Members who are here; I do not want disappoint them.