Business of the House

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Before we come to business questions, I am sure that the House will want to send our best wishes to Robin James, who retires today after 40 years, during which he clerked the Home Affairs Committee, the Foreign Affairs Committee, the Defence Committee, the Committees on Standards and the Committee of Privileges. Robin was a Clerk of the Committee that approved the building of Portcullis House, and as a Clerk to many Committees since, he has produced many thorough reports. I wish him a long, happy and fulfilling retirement.

[Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)]

Will the Leader of the House provide us with the forthcoming business?

[Chris Philp]

Mr Speaker, I echo your thanks and congratulations to Robin James, who retires today after 40 years of service. In this House, we all rely on the service of the Clerks, and I know that we are all extremely grateful to Robin for the work that he has done over four decades. I am sure that the whole House will also want to send our thoughts, prayers and best wishes to those affected by the terrible floods currently happening in Spain. Some British citizens are affected as well.

It is good that we will have such ample time to debate the Budget, because it raises some extremely serious issues. On 29 July, the Chancellor of the Exchequer stood at the Dispatch Box and told us that there was a £22 billion black hole. That claim has been repeated by Labour Ministers subsequently as a pretext for the tax rises that they planned all along. The Chancellor asked the Office for Budget Responsibility to produce a report into this matter, which was published yesterday. It is called the “Review of the March 2024 forecast for departmental expenditure limits”—a snappy title. I have read that report, as I am sure others have, and nowhere does it mention £22 billion. That number is not there at all. In fact, the only reference to a number is found on page 2 and in table 1. Even the Treasury, straining every sinew, could only find numbers that added up to £9.5 billion, and even there the OBR says that

“it is not possible to judge how much of the £9.5 billion”

might actually have been realised. When the Chancellor said that there was a £22 billion black hole, yesterday’s OBR report now proves that that was simply untrue. Will she come here and apologise for providing that number to the House, given that the OBR report shows that it was simply not true, and certainly does not justify £40 billion-worth of tax rises—the largest tax rises in any Budget in history?

Let me turn to election promises and trust in politics, because when we make promises to the public, it is important that we keep them. [Laughter.] I do not know why you are laughing, because these are your promises. The Labour party said that its plans did not require any extra tax rises. Yesterday, the Government announced £40 billion-worth of extra tax rises. They said that there would be no increase in national insurance, but yesterday they announced a £25 billion increase in national insurance.

Let me turn now to their final fig leaf: working people. Apparently, working people would not be affected. In the last couple of hours the Chancellor herself, on the BBC, has admitted what we all knew all along: that working people would be affected, as a result of lower wages. In fact, we can quantify that, thanks to the OBR’s analysis—I am now quite a fan of the OBR. It published yesterday its “Economic and fiscal outlook”. It is 205 pages long, so some Labour Members might not have had a chance to read it all, but I have. On page 54, in paragraph 3.11, it tells us exactly how much of that £25 billion national insurance increase will fall on the shoulders of working people. The OBR says that

“76 per cent of the total”

will result in “lower real wages” for working people. So 76% of that £25 billion increase will fall on the shoulders of working people. That is £19 billion a year lower wages as a result of yesterday’s Budget. That is not me; that is the OBR. So perhaps the Leader of the House would like to apologise to those working people for the £19 billion pay cut she has just handed them.

During the election campaign, Conservative Members warned that Labour’s plans would result in a £2,094 tax increase per working household, and Labour called us liars. I remember being on the radio and the TV, and Labour shadow Ministers at the time—including the Leader of the House, I think—called us liars. We now know the truth: £40 billion a year. That is £2,173 per working household, so about £100 more than we warned. Perhaps she can apologise for that as well.

We also warned that the tax burden would increase to 37.4% of GDP. The OBR says that it will be 38% of GDP—higher even than we warned when Labour called us liars. That is the highest tax burden ever in our country’s history. So the Government were elected on a false prospectus. The OBR has now told us that will result in lower growth by the end of the forecast period and higher inflation. The truth has finally come out: the Government are going to tax more, they are going to borrow more, and they are going to spend more, and now we know who will pay: working people, to the tune of £19 billion a year.

[Mr Speaker]

Can I just say to the shadow Leader of the House that he said “you”? I am definitely not responsible for this Budget—I want to make that very clear.

[Lucy Powell]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. May I, too, join you in paying tribute to Robin James, who has been a Clerk here for over 40 years, most recently on the Committees on Standards and of Privileges, which has certainly put him in the spotlight in recent years. I know he wishes to retire to Wales, with the twin ambitions of learning Welsh and finally learning to drive. I am sure we wish him well with both those endeavours. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Jon Pearce) on the birth of his newborn daughter Connie this week.

Finally, I think, the Conservative leadership contest will finish this weekend, and it could be all change on the Opposition Benches. This could be my last exchange with the right hon. Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp). He is well known for his ambition, and perhaps today was another audition for higher office. I am sure he would welcome a promotion, from the detailed discussions we have on restoration and renewal and House procedure, and I am that sure he will be looking forward to that. I thank him for the work that we have done together. If this is our last exchange, I will really miss his—how shall I put it?—boundless enthusiasm, because God loves a trier; let us hope the next Conservative leader does too.

As the right hon. Gentleman rightly said, yesterday we saw history made, with the first ever Budget delivered by a female Chancellor. I am so proud of my friend for smashing that glass ceiling. The country voted for change and our Budget lives up to that promise. We have made clear choices. We have chosen responsibility over recklessness, reliable public services over endless crises, putting working people first, investment over decline, a Budget that is now backed by the International Monetary Fund—an unprecedented endorsement of a Budget. In many ways, it is not a Budget that we expected or wanted to make, but we have had to fix the mess left by the Conservative party—[Interruption.] I know that Conservative Members do not like to hear it, but they were not straight with people before the election.

The Office for Budget Responsibility, which the right hon. Gentleman quoted, has made it clear that, had it known the true state of the public finances in March, its forecast for the previous Government’s plans would have been “materially different.” I do not usually agree with the former Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, but perhaps the right hon. Gentleman should heed his advice today. He said that the situation Labour inherited was “structurally difficult.” In other words, we are clearing up the Conservatives’ mess.

I am a little confused, Mr Speaker. Does the right hon. Gentleman now accept that there was a black hole, but disagrees on the amount, or is he still in denial that there was even a black hole at all? It is ironic that the Conservatives spent all week undermining the OBR, but are now trying to hide behind the OBR’s figures. I am not sure—which is it? He will know that there was a huge black hole, even before the pay awards that the Conservatives left sitting on their desk, and for which they set aside no money even though they knew that someone would have to pay for it.

We make no apology for the Budget, which is about long-term investment and a decade of national renewal. That is why it is right that we consider the benefits of investment and not just the cost. This country has suffered years of decline and under-investment—we were ranked second lowest for investment in the OECD. We have chosen investment, not further decline under the Tories. We have had to be honest about the difficult choices that we have made in the Budget given what we were left with. I must ask the right hon. Gentleman and other Conservative Members: how would they fix the finances left by their Government? How would they give the NHS the money that it needs? How would they get the long-term investment that the country is crying out for?

We have absolutely put working people first, and I am proud of the pay rise that the Budget gives the poorest workers next April. There are many more things to welcome in the Budget, and I am sure that the House, and maybe the right hon. Gentleman, welcomes them. They include one of the biggest ever increases in NHS spending to deal with the record waiting lists that the Conservatives left behind, much-needed funding for special educational needs and disabilities education, a boost for carers for the first time since the 1970s, fixing the schools that the Conservatives left to crumble, more affordable social housing, money to tackle the cladding crisis, ushering in a decade of national renewal, and investing in the jobs of the future in clean energy, tech, aerospace, automotive, transport, life sciences and much more.

In particular, and I must say this because it needs underlining, this Government have finally put aside money to pay compensation to the victims of historical injustices, including infected blood and the Post Office Horizon scandal, and to deliver fairness for the mine- workers’ pension scheme. Honestly, the most shameful part of the Conservatives’ recklessness with the country is that they promised many times that victims of those injustices would receive compensation, but they put aside not a single penny—not a single budget line to pay for it—in any of their costings.

We cannot in one Budget undo the 14 sorry years of Conservative under-investment, stagnant growth, falling living standards and crumbling public services, but this Budget makes a very good first step forward.

[Lucy Powell]

My hon. Friend has long campaigned on these issues, and has asked about them before. He rightly raises the campaigners’ points; he will be aware that the report is detailed and substantial, requiring the Government to give proper time to considering all its findings. I assure my hon. Friend that as soon as that proper consideration has been given, Ministers will come to Parliament to report on it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Marie Goldman (Chelmsford) (LD)]

I also express my sympathies with the people of eastern Spain on the tragic scenes we are seeing there. I understand that a 71-year-old Briton may also be among the dead, and we expect the numbers to go up. It is perhaps timely that a general debate on flooding is coming up. I welcome that debate, and look forward to hearing what is discussed.

There is much in yesterday’s Budget that the Liberal Democrats welcome. In particular, we welcome the additional funds for the day-to-day NHS spending. We have long been campaigning for that, and we very much welcome it. However, there are patients in hospital who are well enough to leave, but cannot do so unless they get the care they need. Unfortunately, the £600 million that was announced for social care will not touch the sides of what is needed to make that system work properly and alleviate the pressures on the NHS. Will the Leader of the House set aside Government time for a general debate on how best to reform social care?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lucy Powell]

As an MP who also represents a number of people who live in tall buildings, I completely hear what my hon. Friend is saying. This is a very important matter, and I am sure that if she were to apply for a debate, it would get a lot of attention.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

The good news is that the Backbench Business Committee will be meeting on Tuesday. We are open for business, and a steady series of applications has started, particularly from one of our long-term season ticket holders. We are going to be open for requests for 90-minute or half-day debates; it would be very exceptional for us to grant a full day’s debate. We are also going to keep a very close eye on whether those people who make or support applications actually turn up and speak in the debates that are allocated. We had a very good meeting with the Leader of the House earlier this week, and I am looking forward to her announcing time for the Backbench Business Committee to allocate debates.

Mr Speaker, you have very graciously granted us the use of Speaker’s House for the Diwali reception on Monday, for which we thank you. To Hindus, Sikhs and Jains, I wish Shubh Deepavali for today, and Nutan Varshabhinandan for Saturday.

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[Lucy Powell]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising important matters relating to his constituency, which is absolutely what he should be doing. He is right to say that the Conservative party starved local government of funds over recent years, which has left communities paying the price. That is why I am really proud that, in yesterday’s Budget, we saw a significant real-terms increase for local government spending power over the coming years, and they will be having multi-year funding settlements.

My hon. Friend raises a good point about flood resilience. He will know that we have set up the floods taskforce. There is a debate during the week after next on these issues, and he may wish to raise that point then.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Sir David Davis—and congratulations on your knighthood.

[David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Indeed, this question may be of interest to you. The Leader of the House has ministerial responsibilities, but she is also the nearest thing this House has to a shop steward in the Cabinet, and it is in that context I ask her this question.

A month ago, I wrote to the Chancellor about her cancellation of the investment opportunity fund, a decision that has put at risk an investment of hundreds of millions of pounds in a new factory in Goole in my constituency, and with it hundreds of jobs. Two weeks ago, I chased up that letter and was told I was going to get a reply; I was even given a reference number. Yesterday, at 1 o’clock on the dot, I got a timed email telling me that the Treasury was not going to answer my question and was handing it off to somebody else. This was a dishonest piece of obfuscation to avoid accountability before the Budget debate. I hope it is not a harbinger of things to come, but will the Leader of the House remind her colleagues in Cabinet of their direct responsibility to us, for our constituencies, to answer such a question and treat it properly in future?

[Lucy Powell]

I join in congratulating the right hon. Member. He raises a really important matter, and he can be assured that I take a dim view when my colleagues do not respond to parliamentary written questions or correspondence in both a timely and a thorough manner. I constantly remind—and have very recently reminded—all my Cabinet colleagues and Ministers of their duties to do so. If Members have any instances of when that has not been the case, I will take those up directly, as I will if he wants to share that one with me.

[Mr Speaker]

In fairness, as the right hon. Gentleman has brought me into this discussion, I am also concerned. I expect Ministers to reply to hon. Members of this House, whatever side they are on. Worse than that, to transfer such a question to someone else at the last minute is totally unacceptable. Ministers are accountable to this House. I fully support the Leader of the House, and I will work with her to make sure that all Members get such letters on time. Let us get that message back to Ministers—I am sure those on the Treasury Bench are listening—and I hope that a reply is being sent as we speak.

[Liz Twist (Blaydon and Consett) (Lab)]

I recently had the privilege of visiting the newly created Ryton heritage garden, which includes a memorial to Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and of cutting the ribbon. Brighten Ryton is an amazing organisation that does much to help our local community, and I particularly thank Terry Docherty who led the project. May we have a debate in Government time on the importance of local community organisations in supporting our areas?

[Lucy Powell]

I join my hon. Friend in congratulating all those who work at the heritage garden in her constituency, and particularly Terry Docherty—it sounds as if he has does an immense job for her constituents. This topic is raised regularly, and now that the Backbench Business Committee is established, I am sure it would consider an application for a debate on the involvement of local community activists and the importance of volunteering to our communities.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (North Cotswolds) (Con)]

I know that you, Mr Speaker, take a close interest in the enormous restoration and renewal project in this House, which is estimated to cost at least £10 billion of anybody’s money—[Interruption.] At least. We are currently spending £2 million a week on maintenance in this place, a large chunk of which is taken up by the costs of preparing for restoration and renewal. I put it to the Leader of the House that we need to get on and make some decisions on this matter, because otherwise we face some catastrophic failure in one of our services in this House—a flood, a fire, or something. We have been talking about this since 2014, and it sets a bad example to the rest of Government if we cannot even manage our own affairs.

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[Sir John Hayes]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Leader of the House needs a few moments to calm down.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Leader of the House.

[Lucy Powell]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that. Perhaps that joke should have referred to one of the prospective leaders of the—no, I will not go any further.

The right hon. Gentleman refers to some very important independent financial institutions that offer this country the financial stability for which is renowned around the world. When we ignore those institutions, as the former Prime Minister Liz Truss did, we see who pays the greatest price for that. Those institutions play an important role, but he is right to say that they should be accountable to Parliament, and it is my expectation that those bodies appear regularly before Select Committees.

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[Lucy Powell]

The hon. Gentleman raises a good point about the A180 in his constituency. He will be aware that in yesterday’s Budget a significant increase in investment in our roads was announced. There are also significant growth deals and devolution plans to ensure that local people are delivering the local transport needs of their area. I am sure he can raise these issues at Transport questions or in the forthcoming Budget debates.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Chris Vince.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for letting me speak. [Interruption.] Genuinely, thank you very much. It is your job, but I appreciate it.

Two weeks ago, at my surgery, I met medically retired chief fire officer Rod Wainwright. Rod was one of the first attenders at the terrible tragedy of Grenfell seven years ago. Subsequently, he has been medically retired because of post-traumatic stress disorder. He did not get the support he asked for from the fire service and the in-house counselling was not enough, and he has subsequently had issues with his pension. Rod blames himself for not being able to save more people on that terrible evening. Does the Leader of the House agree that it is people like us, in this room, with suits on, who are to blame for the terrible tragedy of Grenfell, not heroes like Rod Wainwright? Does she agree that further debate needs to be had to support heroes like Rod?