Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Julian Lewis Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 10th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

The right hon. Member will be aware that the common travel area has long been in place, and that means that arrangements have to be addressed differently. Part of the problem with the whole asylum and immigration system has been that issues around enforcement have just not been taken seriously enough for far too long. We have been clear that the rules need to be respected and enforced. That is why we have substantially increased the resources and staffing available for enforcement and returns. It is why we have had 19,000 people returned. It is why we have increased returns. For example, we have increased enforced returns by 24%. It is why we have also increased the illegal working raids by 38% just since the election. That is a substantial increase in the illegal working raids and arrests, because not enough action was being taken on illegal working and employers exploiting people. If we do not have that system of proper enforcement, people think it is just too easy to ignore the rules, to break the rules and to ignore the system, and that is what we have to turn around. There has to be some credibility underpinning the asylum and immigration system and some enforcement of the rules; frankly, there just has not been that for far too long.

We will introduce two new offences to criminalise the making, adapting, importing, supplying and offering to supply and the possession of a specified list of articles for use in serious crime. That includes templates for 3D-printed firearms, pill presses and vehicle concealment. We will introduce stronger powers to go after dangerous criminals—criminals who are planning to provide small boats, supplying small boats, putting lives at risk, undermining border security and organising serious crime.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I know that the Home Secretary is doing her best to cover the waterfront—almost literally—but is not part of the problem that so many of the criminal gang organisers are outside our jurisdiction? How will these new laws apply to people we cannot reach?

Southport Attack

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. The Government are crystal clear that content which is illegal must be taken down by the tech companies. We have the power to compel companies that fail to co-operate on such content. I think it is not a controversial thing to say that the tech companies have an absolute responsibility, both legal and moral, to keep their users safe, and that particularly applies in the context of younger people. As I think she will know, from March, under the Online Safety Act 2023, they will be required to identify and remove terrorist content swiftly and prevent users from encountering it. The Government have again been clear: should that not prove to be sufficient, we will consider all mechanisms, including legislative ones, to go further.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Will the Minister consider making available to interested colleagues on both sides of the House a presentation of what actually happens on Prevent and Channel courses? In the absence of that, may I ask him, from his personal knowledge of what happens on those courses, am I right in thinking that they are primarily therapeutic? Would he therefore accept that there are some people, not primarily motivated by ideology but psychotic, extremely narcissist and possibly using or abusing mind-altering drugs, who, no matter how much therapy they had, would still go on to commit atrocities; in which case, what powers exist, in mental health legislation and anti-terrorist legislation, to prevent them from committing such acts?

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, as I always am, for his very sensible and reasonable question. I am very happy to arrange a presentation in the way that he has described, if he and other right hon. and hon. Members think that that would be useful. I think it would be and I think it is a helpful suggestion. The truth of the matter is that, in the context of the Prevent programme, we will be dealing with a wide range of different threats. We have spoken previously about our increasing concern with regard to the number of young people who are presenting for a variety of different reasons, but those reasons do include very significant concerns that relate to mental health, autism and neurodivergence. We are looking at those things incredibly carefully. As I know that he will understand, the public inquiry will of course look at them as well. I referenced earlier on in my remarks some pilot trials that we will be launching next week. They are about looking at how we can manage data in a more effective way and how we can ensure that those people who currently do not meet the thresholds for referral into the Prevent programme can be guaranteed the support that they obviously require in order to mitigate the risks that they are exposed to. I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s approach. I will think on it further and come back to him with thoughts about a presentation.

Southport Attack

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The Security Minister has met and had regular discussions with survivors of terror. They raise serious concerns about, for example, the way in which survivors of the Manchester Arena attack ended up feeling badly let down, and the additional support needed in such cases. We will continue to discuss the support that is needed with those organisations.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I trust that the Home Secretary agrees that the courage shown by the dance teacher and the member of the public who intervened should be recognised appropriately. What troubles me is that we seem to have a subtext here of saying that if only that particular ticking time-bomb had been successfully referred to Prevent, it could have stopped him doing what he did. Assuming that someone so committed to fanaticism would not respond to Prevent, will the Home Secretary share with the House what measures are in place to keep such terrible events from happening? Do terrorism prevention and investigation measures, for example, apply in a case like that?

[Yvette Cooper]

The right hon. Member makes an important point. Those referrals were three to four years before the attack, and multiple different agencies had contact with Rudakubana, but there is a huge question about the powers and interventions that were available. Even if the scale of the risk and danger that he posed had been sufficiently identified, what could have been done? That is one of the reasons why the Government are determined to bring in a new power, a youth diversion order, to address some of the difficult cases—particularly those involving teenagers—and see what requirements might be put on young people in such cases. We will bring forward legislation as part of the crime and policing Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

There will be wizardry in the way this question from Sir Julian is delivered.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister accept that it would greatly assist the police to investigate crime in Newcastle-under-Lyme, and indeed elsewhere, if they were not spending an estimated 60,000 hours investigating and recording so-called non-crime hate incidents?

[Dame Diana Johnson]

The Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and I, as the Policing Minister, have said that we want a common-sense approach to dealing with these matters. The Government have been very clear on this. We have set out our priorities as the incoming Government: halving knife crime; halving violence against women and girls; restoring confidence in the justice system; and—one of the big issues for me—tackling antisocial behaviour through our neighbourhood policing guarantee.

Border Security: Collaboration

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend is right that the previous record year was 2022 and that in the first half of this year, when the previous Government were still in office, the arrivals were higher for that season—we all know that arrivals are affected by the season—than they were in 2022. Since the election, those arrivals have been significantly lower than they were in 2022, and had they continued at the record-high levels that the previous Government left us with, we would have had thousands more arrivals over the course of this year than we have, in fact, seen.

That is no comfort when lives are still being lost and when criminal gangs still take hold. However, it is important to recognise that we have not continued with the record-high levels we inherited from the previous Government. We should have a comprehensive programme across the Government and across the whole country to make sure we can tackle those dangerous gangs.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Until small boats are either stopped on French shores or intercepted in French waters, some will clearly continue to get through. If, in the next few weeks, identified individuals from Syria, whether they be Assad’s torturers or released Islamist fanatics, manage to come to Britain, what will be done to them? Will they be detained or will they be allowed to walk free?

[Yvette Cooper]

The right hon. Member will know that the Home Office has the power to deny entry to those who are not conducive to the public good. Those are important powers that we continue to support. He will know that we also have other security powers and measures that we can use where there are individuals who pose a threat to the safety of the UK and we will continue to take those extremely seriously.

Tackling Stalking

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jess Phillips]

Speaking as someone who is local to North Warwickshire and Bedworth—well, local by the standards of the House—it is very pleasant to hear my hon. Friend’s accent, which is not too dissimilar to mine.

I look forward to working with police forces across the country to ensure that the right service is available to all victims of stalking the first time they come forward, whether they are male or female, as the shadow Minister pointed out. I look forward to working with my hon. Friend and any Member of the House who also wishes to take part.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I congratulate the Minister on taking office. Will she elaborate on what the root of the problem is when it comes to not knowing who is doing electronic stalking or harassment? Does the main problem lie with the internet companies, or does it lie with the police, who sometimes think that privacy is such an absolute right that misbehaviour does not vitiate it?

[Jess Phillips]

I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between. In Nicola’s case, the police were able to find out information about the stalker from a series of anonymous accounts, some of which were pretending to be women, but the problem arose because of privacy, as the right hon. Gentleman suggests. Police forces are worried about being bogged down in red tape, so what we will put on the statute book, in statutory guidance, is essentially a power flowing from the Home Secretary to tell police forces that they can provide information, because in such circumstances safeguarding is a perfectly legitimate reason to override privacy.

Respect Orders and Antisocial Behaviour

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson]

It is always helpful to have experienced and long-standing Members of Parliament to remind us of what has actually happened, because, as I pointed out earlier, there seems to be some amnesia on the Opposition Benches.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

An estimated 60,000 hours of police time was spent on non-crime hate incidents in the past 12 months, and we already hear about burglaries not being investigated for lack of police time. So, while welcoming the description of the problem, how is it to be solved unless chief constables are to be directed to reorder their priorities?

[Dame Diana Johnson]

The Government have made very clear our priorities for policing: protecting the public, as I talked about today; rebuilding neighbourhood policing; tackling town centre crime; tackling antisocial behaviour; tackling the scourge of knife crime; and halving violence against women and girls in the next decade. The Home Secretary has also been very clear about the common-sense approach that needs to be adopted when dealing with non-crime hate incidents. We are working with His Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary and fire and rescue services, and the College of Policing, on how best that can be done. It is vital though—I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree—that police forces are able to track and monitor information and intelligence that might be helpful if there is going to be further criminal activity or serious social harm, and community cohesion will be affected. Capturing that is something police forces need to do.

Asylum Seekers: Hotel Accommodation

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle]

My hon. Friend will be comforted to know that I am thinking of precisely those things.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I do not envy the hon. Lady in her job. Does she agree that no amount of hotel accommodation will ever suffice as long as there is no effective way of preventing large numbers of people from coming into this country without permission? As a form of interception near the French coast will probably be the only deterrent, will she at least keep open the possibility of negotiations with France as to how we could work together to do that?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

We have a relatively new Government in France just bedding in. I reassure the right hon. Gentleman that we are working closely with them to see how we can strengthen and deepen our co-operation and partnership.

Police Reform

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I want the police to be getting on with this now, and they have powers they can use to deal with antisocial behaviour, but we want to make sure they have additional officers through the neighbourhood policing guarantee to ensure that they can deal with antisocial behaviour in communities. We have been very clear that the police will be given additional powers to make sure they can seize and destroy the motorbikes and vehicles that are causing nuisance to communities through antisocial behaviour.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Having worked with the right hon. Lady on Committees over a number of years, I am delighted to congratulate her on her appointment. In that spirit, I will make what I think is a helpful suggestion about non-crime hate incidents. Clearly, chief constables have huge discretion over how much effort they put into investigating local crime and non-crime incidents of the sort that she says have a place in the spectrum. Could she perhaps require chief constables to report back to her Department on how many hours their forces spend investigating crime incidents and non-crime incidents? It appears that tens of thousands of non-crime incidents are being investigated every year.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. It has been a great pleasure to work with him on various Committees over the years. He is correct that this is an operational matter. It is for chief constables to decide how they use the resources available to them. My understanding is that very little time is actually spent on non-crime hate incidents, but I will check that with His Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary.

Small Boat Crossings

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, but let us not underestimate the fact that under the Illegal Migration Act 2023 nobody who arrived in that way could be processed, so 118,000 people are waiting to be processed because the previous Government stopped the system dead. We have to get the processing system going again—that is what we are doing—so that we can get the flow of decisions, return those who are not entitled to be here and integrate those who are entitled to stay.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

The Government have a mandate for trying out their approach, and I wish them well. I have always felt that unless the boats are intercepted and turned back near the start of their journey, nothing will deter people from using that method. Will the Minister, whom I respect greatly, explain how it is possible to smash gangs who operate in other jurisdictions once they get to the point where they withdraw their headquarters to countries where there is no possibility of co-operation with the authorities in charge of those states?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Well, getting to that level of withdrawal would be a fantastic development that would put incredible pressure on many of the supply lines currently being used; if we could get to that stage, we would have already made significant progress. The answer to what the right hon. Gentleman is talking about is international co-operation to put the maximum pressure on this terrible international trade in human lives and exploitation. I am glad that he is giving me a little bit of time to prove that we can make a difference.