Oral Answers to Questions

John Hayes Excerpts

Thursday 3rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

4. What his policy is on support for adult community learning.

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes)]

My strong commitment to adult and community learning is well known. It is shared by my Secretary of State and the Prime Minster, who in a recent interview with “Adults Learning” made clear his belief that learning is

“about broadening the mind, giving people self-belief, strengthening the bonds of community”.

That is why in 2010-11 we are developing a skills strategy with increasing importance placed on those with disabilities, learning difficulties and disadvantaged families and communities, spending £210 million in that year alone.

But that is insufficiently elegiac for you, Mr Speaker, and for this House. Lifelong learning feeds hope—builds and rebuilds lives by seeding a hunger for knowledge. It shapes people, families and communities and feeds social justice.

[Andrew Percy]

I thank the Minister for that response. Does he agree that the success and value of adult education is measured not only in terms of qualifications and certificates? Will he assure us that, as this Government move forward, the past cuts in adult education, for courses that do not lead to qualifications, will if possible be reversed, and that value will be placed on all layers of community adult education?

[Mr Hayes]

I welcome my hon. Friend to the House. I know of his rich experience in learning as a former teacher, and he, like me, understands that learning has a value for its own sake. I do not want to be unkind to my predecessors, because that would be slightly vulgar; nevertheless, it has to be said that the dull utilitarianism that permeated the previous regime’s thinking on this subject has now, thankfully, come to an end.

[Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware of the huge contribution that the Workers Educational Association has made to adult education. Can he confirm that his Government will support the WEA in its current form?

[Mr Hayes]

I am not only an admirer but, I would go so far as to say, a devotee of the WEA. The value that learning brings, in elevating lives and building strong communities, is exemplified by such organisations, and I look forward to an early meeting with the WEA to discuss how we can move forward together.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes)]

By July 2009, around 200,000 employers had staff involved in training through the programme. In the 2008-09 academic year, learners started 817,400 Train to Gain courses.

[Mr Bailey]

I thank the Minister for his reply and welcome him to his portfolio. The figures he gave demonstrate that the programme is very successful. Local manufacturers in the west midlands have recognised and welcomed it in the past. Can he give assurances that the programme will be continued, particularly as it was used effectively during the global recession, for companies on short-time working? In the event that we relaxed back into a double-dip recession, it could be there for them to use again.

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the problem with Train to Gain is its deadweight cost—a fact that the last Administration were unwilling to face up to. The evaluations of Train to Gain suggest that it is used to support all kinds of training that employers would have funded anyway and to accredit skills that already exist—

[Mr Bailey]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Hayes]

Well, that is not just my view; it was the view of the National Audit Office, which looked at the scheme and said that it has not provided good value for money.

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

18. What steps his Department plans to take to support businesses seeking to offer apprenticeships.

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes)]

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State a short time ago.

[Mr Buckland]

What steps will be taken to ensure that the new system of apprenticeships reaches out to the very smallest businesses in my constituency and elsewhere? All too often in the past the very smallest businesses have had great difficulty in getting the information that they need to engage apprentices.

[Mr Hayes]

My hon. Friend is right. The apprenticeships system needs to be built from the bottom up, which is why the Government are determined, as the Secretary of State said earlier, that small and medium enterprises should be supported in securing apprenticeships. We intend to introduce an apprenticeship bonus, which will help those small businesses to participate. We want to look at supply-side barriers and at root training organisations that will help small businesses to take on more apprenticeships. We are committed to apprenticeships in a way that has not been seen for years, perhaps not ever.

[Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

That is breathtaking. How can businesses in the supply chain in my area be expected to take on apprenticeships while there is so much uncertainty surrounding the reviews being undertaken on Vauxhall Motors and Airbus?

[Mr Hayes]

There is no uncertainty. Let me be clear about this Government’s commitment to apprenticeships. Even in the short time that we have been in office, we have transferred money into the apprenticeship programme that will allow the creation of 50,000 more apprenticeships. That is just the start. My ambition is no less than to build a system that facilitates more apprenticeships in Britain than we have ever seen before.

[Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Just before BIS questions, I received a phone call from the chief executive of a leading company in my constituency who is keen on apprenticeships and welcomes what the new Government are going to do. However, the company is just bigger than a small or medium-sized enterprise, and he does not feel that it gets the help and encouragement that it needs. Are we taking such companies into account as well?

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes)]

Yes, we are indeed. I am having a dialogue with all the representative organisations of small businesses, and I am of course speaking to the sector skills councils, which play a key role in that regard, in building apprenticeship frameworks that are pertinent. However, as I said earlier, we need to look at the supply-side barriers and bureaucratic burdens that discourage small businesses, and we also need to offset some of the costs through our apprenticeship bonus scheme, and we will do that. We will build apprenticeships from the bottom up, for firms such as that which my hon. Friend has so nobly represented in the House today and the many others like it.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

Business, innovation and skills are the engine that will drive forward our economic recovery. Given that, could the Secretary of State tell me the number of high-value engineering apprenticeships that he intends to fund from his Department in the north-east this year, and how it will increase over time? Further, as he has already accepted £836 million of cuts to his important Department, will he acknowledge that any further cuts would undermine our future economic recovery?

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

T9. Businesses both small and large in Wirral are showing great faith in our young people and their future by investing in apprenticeships. However, that work has the potential to be undermined by the great many reviews that the Government are now carrying out. Will the Minister confirm that if those reviews are truly necessary, they will be carried out swiftly and in liaison with businesses, so that their support for apprenticeships will not be undermined?

[Mr Hayes]

It may be that I have not made the position sufficiently clear, so let me do so now. No review that is taking place would impact in a negative way on apprenticeships. The hon. Lady can go back to her constituents with pride and say that this Government are committed to apprenticeships there and across Britain. She can also come back to the House and challenge me on that if I do not deliver.

[Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on his appointment. May I also congratulate him on what he said before the election about ensuring that bank lending would be improved, so that cities that are in recovery from the recession, such as the city of Nottingham, can see the cash flow coming into businesses to ensure that they go from recovery to prosperity?