Economic Update

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I confirm that the £150 is not for those with second homes or empty homes. We will make that crystal clear in how the policy is executed.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Chancellor for his contribution. I do not want to be churlish—a fair bit of money has been set aside and we appreciate that—but with the further rise in energy prices and the uplifted cost of living in general, working families will have to choose what to cut out of their lives to make ends meet. I put on record that I welcome the £150 million for Northern Ireland and the other Barnett consequentials, but will he consider and commit to reviewing the child benefit threshold for families whose wages are the same but are simply not worth the same in real money terms as when the threshold was introduced in 2013?

[Rishi Sunak]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman recognises that there are two sets of Barnett consequentials for Northern Ireland stemming from each of the policies, which sum total £250 million. He will appreciate that I cannot comment on future tax and welfare policy but, as always, I will take what his says and reflect on it.

Downing Street Parties: Police Investigation

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

If a group of people take cake for 10 minutes while at work, everyone is permitted a reasonable break as part of their working day. That is one possible interpretation. Ten minutes of eating cake and wishing someone a happy birthday would not a party make, but it is a matter for police investigation, and that is what is now happening.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Paymaster General for his responses to these questions. It seems like there are new reports of suspected lockdown breaches each day now. I am pleased, however, that the Metropolitan police’s investigation is under way. Will he confirm that any and all findings from these investigations will be disclosed to the media for public reassurance, that this will be the case for all reports of potential breaches that may yet come before Sue Gray’s investigation is concluded and that justice will be done?

[Michael Ellis]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the findings of Sue Gray’s report will be put before this House.

Rebated Fuel Rules: Construction Industry

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 19th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you very much for calling me to speak, Mr Bone.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) for setting the scene so well, and I thank others for their contributions. The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) also hit the nail on the head, which is that small businesses will be affected. The right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) intervened on the issue that I want to talk about on behalf of constituents who have contacted me, who are not involved in construction as such but are involved in that sector.

I will give two examples of that. Just after Christmas, I wrote to the Chancellor about this very matter, which is of some importance. My constituents are clearly perplexed to find themselves in a position where the cost factor may push them to the stage where they have to make a decision about the survival of their businesses. When I make these pleas to the Minister, I do so because I hope to get a consideration or concession for one of the firms, and the other has told me clearly what its problems will be.

It is great to be here to support my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann. This issue is imperative for Northern Ireland businesses. The new legislation coming into force from April 2022 will have a significant impact on our economy—in particular on our construction industry and, as mentioned by the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire in his intervention, those involved in clearing up afterwards. There are huge concerns about this issue throughout Northern Ireland.

It is great to speak on behalf of the businesses in my constituency. There are many contributing factors making the move to white diesel unsustainable at this time. First, the cost is a primary factor for most of my constituents affected by this issue. I have given two examples, but it will actually affect a much greater number. It is like a stone hitting the water; the ripples go out well beyond that. We will feel the impact in many sectors.

Construction businesses across Northern Ireland have stated that, unfortunately, the added cost will be passed on to the customer—in some cases, that means the UK Government, who own and operate some forms of construction work. According to the Civil Engineering Contractors Association, losing the red diesel rebate would cost the UK construction industry between £280 million and £490 million a year. As my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann said, in Northern Ireland alone the additional cost will be between £20 million and £25 million.

I recently visited Conexpo, a family business based in my constituency in Northern Ireland. The right hon. Member for East Yorkshire mentioned quarries in his intervention—Conexpo has three, located in Ballygowan, Carryduff and Ballynahinch, all of which are in my constituency of Strangford. Conexpo produces highly polished stone value aggregates for export markets. Every one of the roads around London is built on stone from the quarries in my constituency; the same stone from Northern Ireland is used in Hong Kong. Conexpo is a lucrative business, because people very much want to have that stone. However, at the same time, there is a cost factor.

Conexpo has raised some important points explaining why the current policy on red diesel is not sustainable. My hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann spoke about phasing in the policy in order to give businesses time to come up with new ideas and innovation. However, for Conexpo, there is no alternative. There are no hydrogen lorries sitting by to take over because they have not been perfected yet. Conexpo has worked extremely hard to reduce its carbon footprint, and it has succeeding in doing that. It is probably doing more for its carbon footprint than most people. Unfortunately, there are currently no alternatives to diesel engines to power the machines it requires. It is a big business—stone goes from its three quarries to Belfast harbour and then across the world.

Conexpo stated that it

“would welcome some clarity to the practical issues of how the red diesel rebate removal will happen. We believe it would be vitally important to retain the utilization of red diesel and a phased increase of the duty levied by HMRC would be charged by the fuel supplier.”

Another example is Cooke Brothers, which is run and owned by Ken Cooke in Newtownards. He has also voiced concerns on the red diesel rebate. He has stated that the Government must provide more clarity in regard to red diesel for generators. His engineering business does instrumental work for shipyards and sewerage works. The lack of information around generators is causing major anxiety for construction businesses.

Can the Minister say if there could be an exemption or some help for the people who depend on generators? Red diesel is important first for lorry movements and secondly for the generators used in engineering.

The legislation will cost the average business an extra £50,000 a year. It will also potentially mean that jobs are on the line. The Government have a proud record of creating jobs—the unemployment rate is down to 4.5% today, which gives us an indication of their polices—but if they want to be progressive and reduce that more, we cannot lose the jobs we have. The Government must recognise that, at this moment in time, there is no suitable alternative for most users, and that discretion must be given to construction businesses that simply cannot afford this change.

I will conclude within the timescale you set, Mr Bone. In my humble opinion, my constituents need help. I look to the Minister for that. Northern Irish businesses have suffered all too much in recent years, from the horrific impact of the protocol to the pandemic, and now our construction employers face extortionate costs relating to the red diesel change. I encourage the Minister to step in now and answer the questions of our constituents. Give us the help needed, give us the reassurance we seek, give us the phasing in. There is undoubtedly confusion surrounding the new legislation. Assurances, as presented by my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann and replicated, must be given to ensure the success of our construction businesses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Whately]

I will make a little more progress, and then I will be very happy to. I am keen to make sure I address hon. Members’ points, which I have listened to and noted down during the debate.

Despite diesel being one of the most polluting fuels that vehicles and machinery can use, red diesel benefits from a significant duty discount—a duty rate of around 11p compared with almost 68p per litre on standard diesel. That really is significant. As a consequence, businesses using red diesel pay far less for the harmful emissions they produce than individual car owners. The tax changes that we are introducing in April mean most current users of red diesel in the UK will instead be required to use diesel taxed at the standard fuel duty rate like motorists, which more fairly reflects the harmful impact of the emissions that are produced.

Importantly, the Government have also heard from developers of alternative technologies—cleaner alternatives to red diesel—that the low cost of running a diesel engine on red diesel currently acts as a barrier to entry for greener alternatives. This widespread use of red diesel is actually counterproductive in terms of our ambitions to tackle climate change, reduce emissions and reduce pollution overall.

[Jim Shannon]

I kindly put two issues to the Minister. First, all Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann, have said that there needs to be a staging of this process. Only then will the new technology come through. That is not being negative; we all wish to achieve these goals, but there is a practicality issue. The second point, which I raised in my contribution, is that if exemptions are being given to farmers—which I agree with—would it be possible to have exemptions for those who depend on the generator system? Minister, we are not agin ye—to use an Ulsterism—but we really do think that at this stage there should be some honesty and flexibility in the process.

[Helen Whately]

I heard the hon. Member’s point there. A number of colleagues, including the hon. Member for Upper Bann, talked about there being a cliff edge, and others have asked for a delay. This was first announced back in 2020 and was confirmed in the spring Budget of 2021 to be introduced this coming April, so I would say that there has been a substantial lead time into the introduction of this policy—it is simply not coming as a surprise.

There has been substantial consultation with industry and consideration of the cases that specific sectors have made about the challenges that the shift to paying tax at the same rate as standard diesel might mean for them. The Government have listened to those concerns and made specific exemptions where we can see very material impacts—for instance on the cost of goods and services to households. There is an exemption around some use of red diesel for the purposes of generating energy for those who are off-grid—there is a specific exemption relating to that.

Although the construction sector, and mining and quarrying, which my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) mentioned, argued throughout the consultation process that they should be exempt, their case was simply not compelling against our overall objective to incentivise greener alternatives and greater fuel efficiency and to shift to a position, which can only make sense, where the appropriate level of tax is paid on such a polluting and harmful fuel to reflect the harm that using it causes. However, as I say, we did listen and consult substantially on this proposal; we heard among others from the construction sector and from business representatives in Northern Ireland. We did listen, but we had to make the decision that this is part of an overall direction of travel where we are committed to tackling climate change and the harmful effects of pollution.

Coronavirus Grant Schemes: Fraud

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

As a former arts Minister who visited many of those organisations in the hon. Lady’s constituency in years past, I recognise the enormous contribution that creative industries make there and across the country. Of course, the grants we gave through the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, the recovery fund, and the support through local authorities got to many of those organisations. I stand here today not with a sense that nothing could have been done better, but recognising that there was a balancing act between speed of delivery of support to businesses, and complexity, with the delays that would inevitably have ensued. I am contrite about our not getting everything right, but I am also clear about the real dilemma that we faced at the time.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I think everyone in this House recognises that Government stepped in and helped; I know my constituents recognise that, and we want to put that on record. HMRC stated in November that its taskforce was expected to recover some £1 billion in fraudulent or incorrect claims over the past two years and referred to some 23,000 investigations that had been opened. Only 25% of the money will of course be returned, so can the Minister clarify how that came to be, and what lessons have been learned for any future financial claims?

[John Glen]

As ever, I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I set out in my previous answers the dilemmas with respect to speed of delivery. However, HMRC has done a fantastic job in designing the schemes and standing them up quickly under enormous pressure. We will continue to work closely with HMRC and take its advice as we make decisions on how to tackle enduring fraud risk. More broadly, lessons can be learned about the design of future schemes.

Downing Street Garden Event

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

I cannot prejudge the investigation, but of course it is a source of considerable personal regret that anyone should suffer that imposition, inconvenience and distress, of which many examples have been given in the House. Of course that is a matter of personal regret. It is not appropriate to prejudge the investigation that is in progress. However, if the hon. Lady is asking me to express my regret about the tragedy that has befallen all those families who have suffered loss, and what have been grotesque invasions of their family life, I do so, unreservedly.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In Northern Ireland last week, we reached the milestone of 3,000 deaths due to covid, which means that 3,000 families who followed the rules are grieving today. Those 3,000 who died included my mother-in-law, who died alone.

Will—[Interruption.] Will the Paymaster General confirm that there will be a full and complete disclosure to enable the police service to ascertain that all was done decently and within the regulations on that date and at that time? I am sorry, Mr Speaker.

[Michael Ellis]

I am very sorry for the hon. Member’s loss. He has asked me if the results of the investigation will be made public, and they will be.

Household Energy Bills: VAT

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

That is levelling up in action, filling in the potholes at the Lord’s manor.

On this side of the House we want to keep bills low, which is why Labour is bringing forward this vote to reduce VAT on home energy bills to 0% for a year. It is why we would spread out the price increase that is about to hit bill payers because of the collapsing energy firms, and it is why we would help the squeezed middle, those on lower incomes and pensioners by increasing and expanding the warm homes discount to 9 million people. Our plan would save households £200 from their bills, and up to £600 in total for those who need it most. We would pay for this with a windfall tax on North sea oil and gas profits. These companies have profited massively because of exploding prices, so much so that some in the industry have referred to soaring energy prices as a “cash machine” for producers and their shareholders.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome the hon. Lady’s proposals but, although I welcome and support the green energy push as the only way forward, does she agree that the Government should, in these extreme circumstances, consider removing the green tax during the current fuel crisis to bring down prices and thereby prevent the £750 bill increases that each household will receive this year?

[Rachel Reeves]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s concern for reducing gas and electricity bills for his constituents and all our constituents, and we are willing to consider anything that can be done to keep bills low this year. Our proposals would take £200 off everybody’s bill and £600 off the bills of those who need support the most. Labour thinks it is only right that cash from the companies that have done well from this price spike should go back to hard-pressed families, yet this Government seem to think differently. In fact, the Education Secretary said on Sunday that he thinks that oil and gas companies are “struggling”, even when they are expected to report “near record” incomes this year. Struggling—really? The people struggling in our country right now are those seeing their bills going up and up.

Charter for Budget Responsibility and Welfare Cap

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 10th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I say respectfully to the Minister that I want to speak on the welfare cap and endorse the comments that others have made, using cases from my own constituency of Strangford. I see the issues very clearly. To be fair to the Minister, I absolutely understand the rationale behind capping the amount that the state spends on welfare. We cannot hold on to what we do not have in our hand, and we cannot give what is not ours to give. We do have to be responsible, but we also need to ensure that the funding that we are allocating to NHS reform and to the latest stages of the covid battle is adequate, while keeping an eye on the amount borrowed, which is beyond belief in my opinion. The hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) said that it is hard to understand just how much money has had to be borrowed.

However, at the same time, it must be said that people are struggling and that they need more help, and that is what I am going to say on behalf of my constituents of Strangford. For many people, the withdrawal of the covid lifeline of the £20 uplift to universal credit has left them in a precarious situation. I can see that. I know that. Let me provide the evidential base for what I am saying; others have done so and I want to do the same. I know because the number of referrals to the food bank in my constituency has doubled. I spoke to the guys there just last week. I asked whether I was right in saying that the number of people applying to the food bank this year was greater than ever before. The answer was yes. I can see that statistically from my office. I can also see the levels of hardship and poverty to which the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) referred. People are struggling. They are the working poor. They are the people on low wages who are finding it incredibly difficult to make ends meet. I see families whose income has stayed the same and yet, in Northern Ireland, they are facing increased costs due to the Northern Ireland protocol. Let me give Members an idea of the prices that are being asked and where they are going—where they were before and where they are now.

One local business in my town is renowned for bargains. It carries a range of £1 products. The business owner informed me that his range of 600 £1 products now cost between £1.15 to £1.29 each. That is for bleach, dishcloths, toilet rolls—the things that people need every day. These are not luxury items; they are the essentials. The owner informs me that he has not made 1p more on these products. His income is up because prices are up, but his profits are down because people cannot afford to be buying his goods. The impact is felt even in a pound shop where the products are sold for only £1 or thereabouts.

There has been a 15% rise on groceries alone. Add into this a 30% gas rise and a 20% electric rise, and the problem is clear. This is why it is right and proper for this Government to review the welfare spending cap and then lift it due to the dire circumstances that working families and those who are ill and vulnerable find themselves. The right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) referred to those who are disabled. Things are hard enough for those who are able-bodied, but it is even worse for the disabled.

I wish to pose a question to the Minister—I do it respectfully and he knows that. This is a genuine question and not a political point. Will the rise be sufficient to make a meaningful difference to families on the poverty line? Is the increase proposed today enough to do the job and to do it right? The cap set at the spring Budget 2020 was restated following some methodological changes. In 2024-25, it was set at £126.8 billion, with a margin of 3%. The new aim is that the cap in 2024-25 will be £138.3 billion, with a margin of 2%. Will that be enough for those who need it?

I know that all families in Northern Ireland are bearing the brunt of the intransigence of Brussels in its refusal to do the right thing and allow us to trade with the rest of the UK. This is not the debate on the Northern Ireland protocol, but its effects are felt in my constituency. There can be no discussion about people on the brink of the poverty line without acknowledging the effect of the protocol on the finances of every person who buys anything in Northern Ireland. This is about every mother unable to purchase gifts on Amazon and paying astronomical amounts for Christmas presents for their children as they were outside delivery areas, and every business owner paying more for products to cover the cost of the procedures. All those people show that Northern Ireland is much poorer financially for the protocol, as well as culturally.

I support the uplift of the welfare cap. I am no smarter than everybody else, but I understand the issue because my constituents tell me. I understand the reservations of those who do not want to borrow more, but we must get our local businesses back to earning and paying tax, which covid has removed. Wages for the working poor mean disposable income that is spent in the local economy, and people having enough to heat their homes and clean them. There is work to be done on the economy of this nation to encourage business and enterprise to tap into the global market. In the meantime, we must have enough money to spend on our vulnerable and needy. I have never seen anything quite like this year, and if this measure is needed as a first step, we must take that step today.

Covid-19: Government Support for Business

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. The Government worked very closely with the sector in the determination of the parameters of the live events reinsurance scheme—I was involved in it myself—over late summer. That £800 million scheme will give events across the country confidence, but I obviously recognise that that needs to be kept under constant review, as all the measures do.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his answers to the questions and, clearly, for the commitment to financial support to help businesses, but may I ask him a question on behalf of travel agents and tour operators, which are again taking a very specific hit, not simply from cancellations but from frightened people being afraid to book for the future? Will he explore urgently a financial aid scheme alongside the one that is so clearly needed for the hospitality industry as a whole?

[John Glen]

Throughout this pandemic, we have received representations from many sectors, we have introduced a range of interventions to deal with the challenges, and we will continue to engage with sectors across the economy, including travel operators, which have been reflected a number of times in the concerns of Members across the House this morning.

Co-operatives and Mutual Societies

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I have spoken in these debates in the Chamber and in Westminster Hall as well. First, I thank the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) for setting the scene so well. He brought the issue to Westminster Hall some time ago and I spoke then, and I mean it honestly when I say that his presentation has been absolutely on the button.

I have often said that co-operatives, mutual societies and indeed credit unions are a phenomenal help to so many families throughout Northern Ireland—I obviously want to give a Northern Ireland perspective to the issue. I want to speak about the co-operatives in my constituency and the Newtonards Credit Union branch, which has been the salvation of many people I know in a difficult time.

I commend my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) and concur with his comments on LV= mutual, which the hon. Member for Wycombe also referred to. It is really important that those at the ground level of the co-operatives, mutuals and credit unions have some say in where they go. My local credit union has mentioned that it would do more for people if it was given the opportunity to do so.

I was happy read an article last week on affordable social housing in Northern Ireland that gave examples of how things can progress. In it the Northern Ireland Communities Minister indicated that the role that credit unions and others can play should be further explored. She said:

“If we are to achieve our objectives it is likely that a wider range of sources for financing will be needed such as charitable trusts and foundations, credit union loans, capital markets: from the sale of long-term bonds and developer contributions.”

The benefits of housing co-operatives, community-led housing and self-build initiatives

“will also need to be explored further”.

She is absolutely on the button, and she is right in what she says.

In a debate on affordable housing we had in this Chamber last week, I mentioned the good work of community-led housing and self-build initiatives. The good that could be done must be more widely investigated throughout the United Kingdom, and I urge the Minister—he always responds in a constructive way to our requests—to work collaboratively with the devolved Administrations to unlock further the best-kept secrets of credit unions. He has spoken about credit unions before, and we have had conversations about them both outside and inside the Chamber.

A lovely article in the Financial Times succinctly sums up what co-operatives, mutuals and credit unions are really about:

“The history of non-profit lenders has been intertwined with civil rights movements in the UK and abroad since the second half of the 20th century, as campaigners, religious groups and philanthropists sought to help marginalised groups gain greater access to financial services… Credit unions act like community-focused banks, using deposits from members’ savings accounts to fund low-cost loans with interest rates capped at 1 per cent per month in Northern Ireland and 3 per cent per month in the rest of the UK—about 43 per cent APR.”

In the past, I was fortunate to have one of the Minister’s colleagues—he was then a Minister but he is not now—visit Northern Ireland and particularly the credit unions. His input on that visit was incredibly helpful. We visited the credit union in Newtownards and met the man in charge, George Proctor. He has built up the membership—both adults and young people—phenomenally and it has become a major go-to when it comes to being a voting member and being able to borrow money whenever people need it.

The credit union sector is large and has grown in recent years. There was about £1.6 billion in outstanding loans at the end of 2020—up 19% since 2016—but the sector also faces challenges in keeping up with regulations and changing customer expectations of services such as online banking. The number of UK credit unions fell by more than a fifth in the same period, as smaller unions closed and were taken over by larger groups. Although the numbers are down, the clientele has kept steady and has risen. Credit unions are an essential component in any rural area and town, as they offer people the ability to save money, to borrow money, when needed, at a small interest rate, and to repay that money at an affordable rate, with no stress. Suddenly, the boiler breaking down three weeks before Christmas does not result in a nightmare but can be quickly and efficiently dealt with by using local credit unions.

I am fortunate to have 13 registered credit unions and co-operatives in my constituency, and I will name each one for the purposes of Hansard: Downpatrick Co-operative Marketing Ltd, Northern Ireland Fish Producers’ Organisation Ltd, the Ballynahinch Credit Union Ltd, Portaferry Credit Union Ltd, Newtownards Credit Union Ltd, Newtownards Royal British Legion Club Ltd, BDS Credit Union Ltd, Ards Saturday Market Traders’ Co-operative Limited, Comber Community Credit Union Ltd, Strangford Down Ltd, Northern Ireland Horse Board Co-operative Society Limited, North Eastern Lobster Fishermen’s Co-operative Society Limited, Ballywalter Youth and Community Co-operative, and Comber Earlies Growers Co-Operative Society Limited. All of those, at different levels and with different financial resources, represent a large number of people.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

My hon. Friend is itemising the co-operatives in his local area, which can be replicated across the United Kingdom. Does he agree that as long as these groups, whether they are mutuals, co-operatives or credit unions, can demonstrate their professionalism and their adaptability in the modern marketplace, are to be supported? They need to see the wider community rally behind them and get involved with them for the better future of all of our communities going forward.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Yes, I do agree. When we look at the breadth of the market, and who these organisations represent, it indicates support that goes above and beyond. There are cattle market co-operatives, farmers’ co-operatives, fishermen’s co-operatives, plus a few reasonably sized credit unions. The agricultural co-operatives, the credit unions and the market traders co-operative—bringing all those people together, as my hon. Friend said—are examples of co-ops that help to sustain an independent rural community and a way of life. They are an essential component of these communities and a lifeline for them.

These organisations are undoubtedly able to do more, when we consider that the Financial Conduct Authority estimates that 28 million people—more than half of UK adults—have some element of financial vulnerability. In February 2020, up to a third of adults had less than £1,000 in savings, and one in 10—about 5.6 million people—had been paying a high-cost loan with an annual interest rate above 100% at some point in the preceding 12 months. What co-operatives, mutuals and credit unions do is enable their members to borrow at rates that they can afford to pay back. It is not like going to a payday loan company or others in the community who take advantage of people in their time of vulnerability. What these organisations offer is critical for the future.

Perhaps the Minister can give us some indication of any discussions he may have had with credit unions or co-operatives in Northern Ireland. I know I asked that earlier on, but it is always good to get a perspective here, in Westminster, where we are all under the great Union flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland together—we are all part of that.

There is an issue with lending, and it is my firm belief that credit unions could be a way of dealing with this issue. Further, more investment and help should be given to allow credit unions to push their products and abilities into more communities as a viable savings and loans option. With that, I will conclude by thanking the hon. Member for Wycombe for introducing this debate, and I look forward to the comments from the shadow Ministers and the contribution from the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard).

[Dame Angela Eagle (in the Chair)]

I intend to call the Front-Bench speakers no later 10.28 am.

--- Later in debate ---

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that. Long before I had grey hair and was elected to this place, I wrote an article for the Co-operative party about co-operative insurgency—the idea that a harder, bolder form of co-operation could also come out of a purposeful building out of a co-operative shareholding in business models. To follow my hon. Friend’s idea, it is not only about creating a co-operative or mutual from day one; it can be about mutualising a business model. Even a small, co-operatively held component of a big publicly listed company could help drive and direct an ethos and culture change within that business, which could produce better outcomes for staff and the overall business model.

However, I am afraid that not all is well in our co-operative sector in Plymouth. Our Plymouth credit union is on the verge of closure, which I worry will deny access to finance for people on the margins of finance and society in particular. The City of Plymouth Credit Union’s office is opposite my office, on Frankfort Gate, and at the end of the week, the queues that come out of that credit union show a number of individuals who always face challenges—not only economic and financial challenges but challenges elsewhere. We must also be aware of the closure of credit unions. I do not know what will replace the provision the Plymouth credit union gives to some of those most marginalised people, but we need to find an alternative. The basic bank accounts that the Treasury has been promoting via businesses will not be enough to replace the service provided by Plymouth credit union, and I encourage the Minister to look at what happens when credit unions fail.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his excellent contribution. As I said in my contribution, when some of the smaller credit unions closed they were amalgamated with larger ones. Is that a possibility for the credit union that he is discussing?

[Luke Pollard]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I hope that it will be, but I fear it may not. The challenge is that the future is very uncertain, especially for smaller credit unions that do not have the financial backing of a larger credit union. The social benefit that they provide is considerable, and it is worth the Treasury looking at that.

My final point is a challenge to those people who speak about co-operatives and mutuals, like myself and everyone in this place. Often the debate around co-operatives and mutuals is an urban-themed one; as an MP for a city, most of my examples have been urban themed. However, there is enormous potential in telling the story of the success of the mutuals and co-operatives in our rural and coastal communities. In our rural communities, we see an amazing penetration of successful co-operative businesses, providing support at scale not only for rural housing and, in particular, agriculture, as we heard from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), but for fishing. Greenhook Fishing in Plymouth is our brand-new co-operative. It is pioneering sail-powered fishing in Plymouth, and is bringing back the Plymouth Hooker, a fantastic old-style fishing boat. It also provides opportunities for people who have left prison and veterans to be re-trained in new skills, not only in boat construction but in fishing.

Greenhook Fishing is following a model that is present in many other coastal communities and rural communities —of co-operatives being successful, getting on with it and never identifying as a co-operative. My challenge to those who speak about co-operatives is that we should talk up rural and coastal co-operatives as well. I am very pleased that the Co-operative party has started a new commission around rural co-operatives, to feed into Labour’s rural review, that will make the case for further investment in rural co-operatives as distinct from urban co-operatives and the challenges that they face. The future is bright for mutuals and co-operatives, and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.

Dormant Assets Bill [Lords]

Jim Shannon Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 6th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Over the past decade, the dormant assets scheme has released more than £800 million to tackle systemic social challenges and to support the communities that need help most. This Bill is estimated to unlock £880 million of additional funding to ensure that the dormant assets scheme can continue to support innovative, long-term programmes addressing some of our most pressing social and environmental challenges. The scheme is led by industry and backed by the Government. Its aim is to reunite owners with their financial assets; where that is not possible, the money supports vital social and environmental initiatives across the UK.

Consumer protection is at the heart of the scheme. Dormant assets remain the property of their owners, who can reclaim any money owed to them in full at any time. However, only a small percentage do so, meaning that the rest of the money lies dormant. The scheme responds to the imperative to put the money to better use.

The Bill marks the completion of a five-year review in collaboration with industry leaders, including an independent commission and a public consultation. The scheme’s success is down in no small part to the commitment and drive of the banks and building societies that have led the charge on unlocking dormant assets for the public good. However, it is only right that the scheme continues to grow and evolve.

Currently, only assets from dormant bank or building society accounts are eligible to be transferred into the dormant assets scheme. The Bill will enable Reclaim Fund Ltd, the scheme’s administrator, to accept a broader range of asset classes in the sectors of insurance and pensions, investment and wealth management, and securities. Of course, there could be even more dormant assets to unlock in future. The Bill will therefore introduce a new power to provide the flexibility to expand the scheme through regulations.

I stress that the four core principles that underpin the scheme—voluntary participation, reunification first, full restitution and the additionality principle—will remain unchanged by the Bill. The Bill will require the Secretary of State to

“carry out periodic reviews of…the operation of the dormant assets scheme and…any use made of the powers”

to extend the scheme.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

There are many worthwhile projects that local communities would like to bring forward. How can they feel that they are part of this project and gain advantage from dormant bank accounts?

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. There will be a consultation; I or the Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Nigel Huddleston), will come to it later.

The Bill makes provision to reflect Reclaim Fund Ltd’s establishment as a Treasury non-departmental public body and names it as the scheme’s only authorised reclaim fund. In addition, the Bill includes a new power for the Treasury to designate additional authorised reclaim funds in future. To guarantee consumer protection, the Bill’s money resolution will enable the Government to cover the liability, in the form of a loan, for reclaims should any authorised reclaim fund face insolvency.

The Bill will amend the approach to distributing dormant assets funding in England, aligning it with the model used in the devolved Administrations, who have powers to focus funding through secondary legislation, provided that it is within the parameters of social or environmental purpose. In England, the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Act 2008 restricts the English portion of funding to youth financial inclusion and social investment. The Bill will enable the current restrictions to be removed from primary legislation and put into secondary legislation so that the scheme can respond to changing needs over time. The Bill will require the Secretary of State, before making an order, to publicly consult on the social and environmental focus of the English portion of funds. No changes to the existing restrictions can be made until and unless a new order is laid.

After 10 years of operation, it is right that we carefully consider how the scheme can deliver the greatest impact once it has been expanded.