Co-operatives

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

Thank you very much, Mr Hollobone. I will do my best not to take such an extensive amount of time. I am sure we would all agree that the last few days have felt like something of a marathon, so I will keep my remarks brief.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty). We have crossed proverbial swords in this Chamber recently, but I think today’s debate will be more conciliatory than previous ones. There have been many important and significant contributions today and I look forward to hearing the answers from the Minister on issues such as the mutualisation of Channel 4 and a public stake in Transport for London. There are many interesting ideas. I hope that we can work across the House on areas of mutual interest and agreement.

I am very happy to be participating today. My family have a great tradition in the co-operative movement. Both my grandmother and my great-grandmother travelled with the co-operative and I still remember some of the artefacts that my grandmother brought back from Russia in the 1920s.

It is particularly important to discuss and focus our attention on the role and benefit of co-operatives in our society at the end of the Co-operatives fortnight because of the Brexit vote and in the light of the Finance Bill. In this time of economic uncertainty, we would do well to highlight the contribution of co-operative, employee-owned businesses in our economy. Those employee-owned businesses contribute an estimated £34 billion a year to the British economy and there are nearly 7,000 independent co-operatives across the UK. I will not take hon. Members on a full tour of my constituency, but I would like to mention a couple: West Lothian Credit Union, of which I am a member, Pentland Garden Services, based in Kirknewton, and Eliburn Tenant Management Co-operative, all of which have an employee-owned structure and make a great contribution to the local and Scottish economy.

Two of the largest co-ops in the UK are the Co-op and John Lewis, of course. All co-operative retailers, including those two, account for £24.3 billion of the sector’s turnover. With the two strongest areas in the co-operative sector being retail and agriculture, Arla Foods and United Oilseeds contribute £5.8 billion. We cannot ignore their contribution to the economy. Nor can we ignore the co-operative sector’s contribution to the job sector. When John Spedan Lewis, the son of the founder John Lewis, handed the business over to his employees in 1928, he was driven by the desire to improve the working lives of his employees, shaking up the old ways of doing business. Today, the John Lewis Partnership is the largest employee-owned business in the UK. Its 91,500 staff members are partners in the business, and together they own 46 John Lewis shops and 349 Waitrose supermarkets across the United Kingdom, manage their respective websites and run a production unit and farm. That is a significant contribution to the United Kingdom.

John Spedan Lewis was ahead of his time. Studies now show that staff members who are also owners of their businesses are more motivated, engaged and productive. They also experience higher levels of wellbeing. In the John Lewis Partnership, absenteeism is at 3.4%, which is less than half the retail sector’s average.

Given the increasing demand placed on workers today and the impact that 24-hour access to work through phones and emails can have on employees’ mental health—I am sure we and our staff are all well aware of that—putting more ownership in the hands of employees is a model with a lot of merit. The numbers speak for themselves. The White Rose Centre for Employee Ownership, based at the universities of Leeds, Sheffield and York, found that 70% of companies that convert to an employee-owned model report an increased quality of goods and services, 57% report better productivity and 55% report better financial performance.

The co-operative sector currently employs 222,000 workers across the United Kingdom, and co-operatives affect even more of the population than they employ. There are 17.5 million members of co-operatives across the UK—about a quarter of the total population.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) said, the co-operative sector has proven resilient during this period of austerity. Figures from the Cass Business School show that, in the recessionary period of 2008-09, job growth dropped 2.7% but rose to 12.9% in employee-owned firms. Their importance has endured among uncertain economic conditions. Given the current economic conditions and the recent Brexit vote, their importance to the economy is even greater. There is evidence that employee-owned businesses are more resilient and are able to create jobs at a faster rate than their non-employee-owned counterparts during periods of economic instability.

Successive Governments have consistently supported employee ownership. I pay tribute to the coalition Government, which in 2014 introduced a series of tax changes to level the playing field for employee-owned businesses. As a result, shares of profits in indirectly owned and employee-owned businesses are now income tax-free up to the value of £3,600. Business owners can also now benefit from capital gains release when they transfer control of their company to their employees.

However, we must ensure that that legislative support continues. Co-operatives are presently expressing legitimate concerns about details in the 2016 Finance Bill, specifically—I have spoken to a number of businesses that have this concern—that the calculation of the apprenticeship levy will leave employee-owned businesses at a disadvantage compared with conventionally owned businesses. Even worse, there is a real fear that that action could disincentivise the creation of employee-owned businesses in the future. I would be grateful if the Minister commented on that. There has been some speculation about the apprenticeship levy. Given the change in Government, he probably will not be able to clarify that, but any insight he can give will be of great help. A number of businesses, not all of them employee-owned co-operatives, have approached me recently with concerns about the apprenticeship levy. The recent example of BHS and the devastating impact that that has had on its workers shows how important co-operatives and employee-owned businesses are to our economy.

The numbers I have cited demonstrate how important co-operatives are to the economy and the job sector. I do not want their contribution to be diminished in any way by the apprenticeship levy. The present wording of the Finance Bill dictates that the apprenticeship levy does not include dividends to shareholders, but does include bonus payments to employee owners. That will affect about 70 employee-owned businesses across the UK, based on the criteria of companies with a payroll bill of £3 million and over.

In Scotland, the Scottish Government have pledged to encourage more challengers to mainstream service providers and to give consumers more options when choosing a loan or savings. In 2013, Alyn Smith MEP, who received a standing ovation in the European Parliament for his speech following the Brexit vote, said:

“Scotland has a long heritage in the cooperative movement.”

He noted that Scotland was home to the first co-operative—the Fenwick Weavers, in Ayrshire. It is a tradition that brings us great pride. Before I finish, I also want to mention the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-operative, which has a proud heritage in Scotland.

The message from both co-operatives and the statistics gathered by academics is clear: that alternative ownership structure makes an important and sustained contribution to the UK economy.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Before the hon. Lady finishes, will she give way?

[Hannah Bardell]

I would be delighted to.

[Jim Shannon]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) on bringing this debate to the House. It is not anti-business to suggest that big business needs to change, and co-operatives are one way of doing that. I would like to make a plea for farming co-operatives, if that has not already been done. We have done that in my constituency. A single farmer by himself cannot make a change, but collectively, with a number of other farmers, they can secure contracts, move forward and employ more people. Does the hon. Lady agree that that is an example of how things can improve? Co-operatives can move things forward and make things happen that big businesses cannot. Sometimes a change is good.

[Hannah Bardell]

I could not agree more. I am always interested to hear what the hon. Gentleman has to say. He is such a regular contributor here and in the main Chamber. The point he makes about being small and agile, and being able to respond and do things in a different way, can be applied to co-operatives—it can also be applied to small nations. I will leave that with the House.

Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am all for competent and effective opposition. On the job of the Opposition, I take both bits seriously: Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition. If you think the Government are making a decision in the interests of the country, you should support it. If you think they are making a mistake, you should oppose it. The job is not to oppose come what may.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Prime Minister, thank you for your statement. You referred, in particular, to the lessons that need to be learned from the Chilcot report. You referred to assistance for veterans. We know that 179 brave service personnel gave their lives in the Iraq war, but the family support package at that time meant that only two welfare officers were left at the headquarters. I know that that has changed and that steps have been taken to ensure that veterans are not forgotten. The Government send the brave people to war and so should be more than willing to step up to the plate and deliver for them. Prime Minister, what will be done as a result of the Chilcot inquiry to address the family support criteria and the very high suicide rates among veterans?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman asks an important question. The report states that huge improvements have since been undertaken to improve family support and liaison, but I suspect that we need to do even more in the area of mental health. That is one of the reasons why the Government have given that area such a boost.

Social Investment

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered support for social investment.

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I think it was the former New York governor Mario Cuomo who liked to repeat this quote:

“You campaign in poetry; you govern in prose.”

I apologise in advance because many of the practicalities relating to social investment and social enterprises are technical by their very nature, so most of my speech will be in prose, and pretty dry prose at that, but just for a moment I want a word of poetry, or at least a word of vision, to remind us what social investment and social enterprises are all about. As Social Enterprise UK, the national body for social enterprises, puts it:

“Social enterprises trade to tackle social problems”

and

“improve communities, people’s life chances, or the environment. They make their money from selling goods and services in the open market, but they reinvest their profits back into the business or the local community. And so when they profit, society profits.”

As a Labour Member of Parliament, I was interested to learn that it was the great social activist and researcher the late Lord Michael Young, author of my party’s 1945 manifesto, who 53 years later, in 1998, founded the School for Social Entrepreneurs. That perhaps reflects the fact that some of the best ideas for social improvement today come from the social enterprise sector.

Social enterprises are everywhere and can do almost anything. They are coffee shops, cinemas, pubs, banks and bus companies, to give but a few examples. Allow me, Mr Chope, to use the example of a social enterprise in my constituency: Splash Community Trust, which runs Splash Magic. That social enterprise was formed to reopen Plas Madoc leisure centre after Wrexham County Borough Council decided to close it in April 2014. The local community came together to save the facility, which the Splash Community Trust now runs for the benefit of the community. Splash Magic provides not only swimming and leisure facilities for the local community, but employment for local people, tackling health, employment and social problems. It is a great success story. This debate is about Splash Magic and every other social enterprise in our country, and how best we can support them.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising this very important issue. She has outlined one example of how social enterprises can make a difference. Some 2 million people have been employed through social investment, and it contributes £55 billion to the economy and has helped many social ventures. Does the hon. Lady agree that more community groups and small charities need to be aware of the help that there is in accessing funds, such as the Big Lottery Fund and other charitable funds, and that they should not be put off by long, complex forms and in-depth requirements, and be left feeling unable even to apply for community-changing grants?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Rob Wilson)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I begin in the traditional fashion by congratulating the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on securing the debate. I welcome her interest in a very inspiring sector. She said it was quite dry, but I found her comments very interesting and I will come back to some of her ideas in due course. Her comments should not have been unexpected because, as she said, she chairs the APPG on charities and volunteering. The group recently held a session on social investment, which obviously proved to be interesting and has generated a number of ideas.

Social investment can drive innovation in the sector, as we heard from the example of Splash Magic in the hon. Lady’s constituency. It is a powerful tool to tackle some of the biggest challenges in society today and, in the case of her constituency, to tackle jobs and growth issues. Social investment helps economic growth by supporting the UK’s thriving social economy. It also supports social innovation by channelling funding towards entrepreneurial solutions to longstanding social problems, and helps public services by delivering better outcomes and, in some cases, savings to the taxpayers.

I have embarked on an ambitious reform programme for charities and social enterprises because it is my aim to deliver a sector that is more independent, resilient and sustainable over the long term, and much better able to meet the challenges that it faces. Since the general election, the Office for Civil Society has supported the creation of a new fundraising self-regulator. I know that is not directly relevant to social investment, but it is still important to raising money for charities, in particular. The new self-regulator is being led by Lord Grade, as the hon. Lady will know. It has the legislative powers needed to give the public confidence that fundraising scandals are a thing of the past, and is a chance to restore the public trust and confidence needed so that a generous public continue to donate to the causes that matter most to them.

The new Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Act 2016 gives the Charity Commission tougher powers to enable it to regulate the charity sector much more effectively. As the hon. Lady said, the new Act also clarifies the law on social investment, enabling smaller charities to have the confidence to get involved in this hugely beneficial area.

The UK is now recognised as a world leader in social investment. For example, we set up the world’s first social investment bank, Big Society Capital—the hon. Lady went into some of its history—and the first social investment tax relief, which I will talk about further. The first ever social impact bond was also in this country, so we have a lot to be proud of.

We also created Access, the Foundation for Social Investment, to which the hon. Lady did not refer. That has £100 million to support more organisations to take on and get ready for investment, helping to stimulate the pipeline of social investment deals over the next 10 or 15 years. We have made money available through the local sustainability fund, which was created to help organisations to secure a more sustainable way of working by providing funding and support to help them to review and transform their operating models.

[Jim Shannon]

In addition to what the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) said in her speech, we also recognise the good work of the Big Lottery Fund. It is always good to recognise organisations that make a significant contribution to social investment, and the Big Lottery Fund enables that to happen. Does the Minister feel it is important to encourage and support that?

[Mr Wilson]

The Big Lottery Fund has some £700 million of grants at its disposal each year, and it is an important part of the funding landscape in this country. It does an awful lot of great work, and I encourage organisations that perhaps have not made funding proposals to the Big Lottery Fund in the past to do so now. The Big Lottery Fund is trying to do a lot to make it easier for organisations to get hold of grants and to ensure that it is focusing on some of the more disadvantaged areas across the United Kingdom.

Returning to my previous comments, I want the leadership that the Government have shown on social investment to continue. The Government are therefore supporting social impact bonds, as the hon. Member for Clwyd South said, and so far we have created 32 social impact bonds, which is more than the rest of the world put together. We have enormous experience of social impact bonds and the social impact bond market. SIBs work on the principle that the Government pay only for the outcomes that we want to see and that we agree should be delivered. Social investors provide the up-front investment to scale up innovative services and are repaid by the Government based on the outcomes delivered.

SIBs are being deployed to get to the heart of some of the biggest challenges that we face as a country. They often focus on things such as early intervention, which will help us to contain the ever-expanding demands on our public services. I recently visited the AIMS—accommodation, intense mentoring, skills—project of the Local Solutions organisation in Liverpool, which is supporting young homeless people into accommodation, training and employment. The programme allocates a trusted mentor to each young person to provide a single contact point, delivering personalised support across multiple services. The programme is financed via a SIB and is a great example of how commissioning for outcomes can give social sector organisations the freedom to do what is needed, when it is needed. SIBs help to foster genuine partnership between the Government, social sector organisations and social investors, supporting organisations that can innovate in ways that big government finds difficult. Perhaps most importantly, SIBs focus on delivering meaningful outcomes for people, and there is more to come.

As the hon. Lady will probably have picked up, the Prime Minister recently announced our new £80 million life chances fund, which is an important next step on the journey and will show how social investment can transform local public services. The fund is a down payment on a social impact bond market that I hope and expect to be worth £1 billion by the end of this Parliament. I want to see more social impact bonds and to support those who want to use this innovative source of capital, which is why we are working with the University of Oxford to create a new centre for excellence that will develop world-leading research in social impact bonds and innovative Government commissioning and will provide the practical support that local commissioners need as part of that process, but there is more to the market than social impact bonds.

Voter Registration

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

That was an identified software fault, which has now been fixed. The Electoral Commission brought it to the public’s attention. It has been addressed and lessons have been learned.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement, but I would like a wee bit more clarity on how all this is going to work, as that is the important issue. Last week I had a meeting with the electoral officer in my constituency, who informed me that demand for postal votes has been at unprecedented levels—she has never seen anything like it in her life—and that they were trying to do the processing as quickly as possible. Postal vote applications have been delayed, or sent in but not returned. Any delays in processing cannot be tolerated. What is being done to help those who have applied but whose applications have not been processed?

[Matthew Hancock]

Work has been done to address the challenge of the incredibly high interest in postal voting, and resources are available to deal with those issues and make sure that everyone has the democratic right to vote. Ultimately, this is about making sure that everyone who is eligible and wants to has the opportunity to register to participate in this great festival of democracy.

National Defence Medal

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Kirsten Oswald]

The hon. Lady makes a valuable point. There are many people in a similar position. They feel that they are being missed out, and that people do not understand or recognise what they have done.

The difference between my position and that of the MOD is that I believe we must take account of changes in context. As John Maynard Keynes said:

“If the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing this issue to Westminster Hall for consideration. She will be aware that there are many ex-service personnel who did not receive an operational medal during their service with the armed forces. Some of them were not on the front line: submariners on nuclear deterrent duty, for instance, or those in the Royal Observer Corps. May I make a plug for those in the Ulster Defence Regiment who served in Northern Ireland? Some of them also do not meet the criteria. There are a number of people I feel should be considered. Does she feel that the Minister should refer to them in his review?

[Kirsten Oswald]

I agree. I have been contacted by people who have served in many and various ways but are not entitled to a medal. It is an issue of concern, and I hope that we will hear more about it from the Minister. It does not matter how many independent reviews, staffed largely by people embedded in the status quo, take place; the changing facts provide the challenge facing the Government. The facts have changed. It is time that British medal policy changed to reflect them, and that it followed the example set by Commonwealth and other countries.

UK-EU Renegotiation

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Inevitably these negotiations focus on important ideas and concepts of sovereignty and non-discrimination and deregulation and the rest, but we have to make sure this is a debate that is about consumers and how we are affected in terms of freedom to travel, freedom to study, the price of flights, the availability of roaming charges, and how we are affected, as my hon. Friend said, as pensioners and car workers and young people looking for university places. Hopefully, all the debate will engage with, and bring out, those issues.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Prime Minister has outlined the action he has taken in UK-EU negotiations, but what is missing from his statement is any reference whatever to the fishing sectors, which are choked with bureaucracy and unable to fish fully the seas around the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Farmers have to wade through red tape just to farm. The fishing sectors and the farmers have a simple solution: have the referendum as soon as possible and let us rid ourselves of the outrageous and top-heavy EU and just say no to Europe. Can the Prime Minister tell us, and the fishermen and the farmers, today when the referendum will take place?

[The Prime Minister]

I cannot give a date for the referendum because we do not yet have an agreement in place. I would say that in recent years there have been quite significant improvements in the common fisheries policy, not least in dealing with the appalling situation of discards. As for farmers, let the debate begin; let’s hear from farmers and farmers’ representatives about what they think about the support they get, the actions we have taken to try to simplify the bureaucracy with fewer inspections and the rest. I look forward to hearing from all farmers and their representatives.

EU Council

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. One of the reasons that the problem of the draw of our welfare system arises is that unlike many other European countries we have a system to which there is immediate access. People who go to live in some other European countries would have to pay in and contribute for many years before getting their benefits. I am open to all sorts of suggestions, including the one that my hon. Friend made. We need to achieve something that cuts the draw of migrants to Britain through the welfare changes that I have set out.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Prime Minister referred to terrorism in his statement—terrorism in the middle east. It is all too easy to forget about the terrorist campaign in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Today is the 40th anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre in which 10 Protestants were murdered because of their religion. The only survivor was shot 18 times and left for dead alongside his lifeless colleagues. What steps has the Prime Minister taken to ensure that people responsible cannot cross borders, as was the case 40 years ago, when those responsible fled across the border into the Republic of Ireland?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman is right to make the point that there are many victims of terrorism and families who have lost loved ones to terrorism in our own country. Even today there is still a terrorist campaign in part of our United Kingdom, and we should take a moment to pay tribute to the police and the security services who work round the clock to try to stop that happening. With reference to his question, it is important that whatever our borders are or wherever they are, we are able to police them effectively to stop criminals and terrorists crossing them.

ISIL in Syria

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I rise to speak in this debate with a degree of apprehension—apprehension that I am sure everyone who has contributed felt—about the implications and outcomes of what I hope we will this evening collectively mandate our brave forces to engage in, but I also speak with absolute clarity in my conscience that supporting this motion is the right thing to do.

In Daesh, we face an enemy that will not ever be willing to sit down and discuss its grievances, and will not bargain with the west through intermediaries, because it does not have any. Why is that? It is because it despises us simply for who we are. When we meet an enemy like that, we cannot back off. We cannot cite past misjudgments in Iraq, the nature of the Saudi arms trade, or the lack of progress in disrupting the oil trade as justification for not supporting this motion. We must realise that this evil force does threaten our security. It cannot be contained in some far-off land as we continue to close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and imagine it will go away; it will not, and Daesh will not.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The decision for us in the House tonight is this: to protect our citizens in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the decision must be taken to go to Raqqa and ensure that those involved in the campaign to organise attacks in France, Belgium and elsewhere are stopped, that the source of money is stopped, and that Raqqa is taken over and the people who live there have their freedom and their liberty.

[John Glen]

Not for the first time, I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. As we saw in Paris, as our domestic security leaders tell us, and as the many desperate refugees flooding into continental Europe testify, the implications of this evil are real, and I do not believe any realistic alternative course of action exists that properly deals with the nature of this threat.

My concern is this: we must accept that to defeat this evil we need a grand strategy covering humanitarian, military, political and security dimensions, and this will likely require more time than many of us, and perhaps many of our constituents, want to contemplate. Special precision-strike Tornadoes will not be enough. We will need to embrace uncomfortable compromises with Iran, Russia and Assad himself.

Syria will not become benign in its outlook until a comprehensive long-term political solution is found that demonstrates acute sensitivity to many conflicting but co-existing outlooks. Yet this political solution does not have a hope of success until we realise that some enemies of our way of life and freedoms cannot be hidden from. They cannot, and will not, become less lethal. They will not diminish unless we take military action to degrade them—a task we cannot justifiably outsource to our French and American allies.

Let us be clear: although I believe it is true that air power will not defeat this enemy by itself, it will not be defeated on the ground alone either. We will need a co-ordinated approach involving an Arab coalition, NATO, Iraqi and Syrian Kurds, and the Iraqi and Syrian armies, but our airstrikes are instrumental to our task of defeating this evil.

I want to address the argument that bombing Syria will not stop jihadi bombers already in the UK or France. No, I do not believe it will, but that is to misunderstand the comprehensive strategy that must be employed, and is now being employed. Special forces, the police and the intelligence services are well positioned to prevent these atrocities, but the severe risk we currently face is unlikely to diminish if we fail to support today’s motion. If we fail to act, the evil heart pumping life into this death cult will remain healthy. Finally, we must not underestimate the scale of the humanitarian crisis facing Syria, or the time and resources needed to help bring order to that country.

I have thought very carefully about these matters. There is much I do not know—I concede that—but my conscience is clear. We must act and begin the long, intense, delicate and difficult process of facing up to a profound evil. I support the motion and our Prime Minister’s compelling case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster), and I thank him for his comments.

With the US adding manpower and Germany and China yesterday announcing they are joining Russia, France and Jordan to name but a few, we need today to enlist in the coalition of the civilised in the campaign against Daesh. It is still hard to fathom the utter brutality, the inhumanity and the sheer disregard for human life that Daesh shows. Today, we can join in the efforts to confine such evil to the history books and show we will not sit idly by while innocent people are beheaded, maimed, tortured, raped and massacred and fear is struck into the population.

The difference between ISIL’s so-called army and us is this: they behead and rape innocent people as if the only law is the law of the jungle. We know our enemy and we decide how to target them and when to target them through the democratic process—the decision of this House.

Sitting back has left us watching the situation spiralling further and further out of control, the law of the jungle prevailing and that jungle spreading. The time for restoring order and containment was over long ago. We have all seen that Islamic State is not happy to merely confine its horrendous caliphate to one nation or one corner of the globe. Of course, we all know by now the ultimate consequences of appeasement: terror and the threat of terror on the streets of Europe and beyond, a consequence we are only too aware of in Northern Ireland.

Yet today we still have the naysayers. They say intervention does not work. They say we will only make them hate us more. It is clear that they already hate us, regardless of whether we bomb them or not. There is no reasoning with these monsters. The naysayers say our involvement will only lead to civilian casualties, when the fact is civilians are dying en masse without our involvement. One thing is clear: there is not going to be an end to civilian casualties without an end to Daesh. The only way to stop civilian casualties is to eradicate the cause of such casualties: to take the battle to Raqqa and liberate that town, and to take the battle to those organising the attacks in Belgium, France and elsewhere in Europe, and take away their ability to earn money. It is time to blast a scar so deep into these jihadi monsters’ memories that never again will they think of attacking a city, regardless of where Daesh may be conspiring and hiding.

Today this great country—this great democracy, this beacon of liberty through this House—the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will vote on whether to join the coalition of the civilised. Let us not be on the wrong side of history. Let us put Daesh out of business.

National Security and Defence

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about how important it will be to make sure that we have sufficient trained personnel to man our carriers and the new generation of destroyers and frigates. That is one of the reasons why we are seeing an increase of 400 in the number of Royal Navy personnel. I think there is now a great offer that the Royal Navy can make to new recruits to encourage people to join, which is that we are going to have some of the most advanced equipment anywhere in the world, and it is going to be a great service to join.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. There are logistical issues to be addressed for two new strike brigades. What new funds are being given to the Army to generate that new capability? What will be their fitness to move and how will they be moved to the conflict area, bearing in mind that our lift capacity is limited?

[The Prime Minister]

The aim of the new strike brigades is to try to make them more manoeuvrable themselves so that they are less dependent on lift from the other services. Today I visited RAF Northolt and talked to some of our Army personnel about the new Ajax class of armoured vehicles, which were formerly known as Scout, and the new generation of Warrior armoured vehicles. They have longer reach, more capabilities and faster speeds in order to increase not just the deployment but the flexibility of our Army brigades.

G20 and Paris Attacks

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to make that point. We have a system for trying to examine everybody who returns in such a way. As I said, some people will come home completely disillusioned with what they have seen, because it is an appalling regime with appalling practices, but there are people who we will have to keep a very close eye on, and use all the powers at our discretion.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on his courage and leadership at this time. There is a clear need for a new strategy, and that must come from within this House. Is it time that right hon. and hon. Members took the decision to step out in support of the new strategy, and to protect all the people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. I hope that the response to the Foreign Affairs Committee will be something around which Members of the House can rally, so that we can move forward in a way that supports our allies and keeps our country safe.