Jim Fitzpatrick
Main Page: Jim Fitzpatrick (Labour - Poplar and Limehouse)Department Debates - View all Jim Fitzpatrick's debates with the Leader of the House
(11 years ago)
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Mr Amess
I am so glad my hon. Friend has reminded me of that. I tell everyone that it has been a long time since my being here has made a huge difference, but I and other colleagues certainly made a difference over Syria. If only I had had the good sense to do that earlier on Iraq, things might be different.
My second moan is about the Chilcot inquiry, on which £7.4 million has been spent. I want the results, just as I did on Leveson. I have asked lots of questions and I am told that the reason for the delay is the huge number of recorded conversations involving the two previous Prime Ministers and President George W. Bush, but I am certainly not going to shut up on this matter. I want the Chilcot report and I want to know exactly what went on behind the scenes.
The Freedom of Information Act has led to all sorts of consequences for all of us. It is crazy that people can make requests without us knowing who they are or their addresses. Why do the media host abusive remarks that are very offensive to constituents and, occasionally, politicians, although, of course, we have extremely broad backs? It is absolutely gutless that we do not know who the people are or their addresses. There is no reason for the media to host such very offensive remarks, which are often about constituents.
On air pollution, there is a hidden killer among us, in the very air we breathe: small particles—particulates—created largely by processes of combustion. Once breathed in, they attack the cardiovascular system and cause excess mortality. The proportion of mortality caused by particulates in England is 5.4%, but in my constituency the figure is 5.7%.
Some of the environmental damage arises out of burning coal or biomass, but a lot also comes from the tailpipes of cars. In fact, particulate emissions from diesel have been increasing.
Road fuel gases offer impressive reductions in particulate loads. In fact, particulate emissions from cars running on road fuel gases are negligible. Thanks to a concession from a previous Conservative Government, fuel duty is lower on road fuel gases than on petrol and diesel.
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
The hon. Gentleman was making a very good point about emissions from cars, but then he spoiled it by making a party political point about fuel duty, which is neither here nor there. As a fellow east Londoner—the hon. Gentleman is originally from east London—I say to him that east London is in desperate need of river crossings. Opponents say that they would encourage traffic and create more emissions, but the emissions in east London are caused mostly by static traffic that cannot move because it is sitting on either side of the Blackwall tunnel. There are more bridges in west London and less pollution. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that pollution can be dealt with by moving traffic, as opposed to static traffic?
Mr Amess
The hon. Gentleman and I celebrated West Ham beating Tottenham 2-1 last night and I absolutely agree with him. I hope that a number of us will persuade the Government to support a new crossing.
The nice thing about cars running on gases is that they offer the motorist a cheaper and cleaner alternative. The autumn statement contained a 10-year pledge to keep stable the advantage of certain road fuel gases over conventional fuels. That is all to the good, but the road fuel gases that are being given that boost are used not in ordinary vehicles, but only in heavier or commercial vehicles. The only fuel to receive a knock in the statement was autogas—or liquefied petroleum gas—which is another road fuel gas used by 160,000 British motorists, so they have been put on the trajectory of a gradually reducing benefit from running cleaner cars. It seems an oversight to discriminate in favour of some fuel gases, so I hope the Treasury will look at that issue.
The hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) is the secretary of the all-party group on fire safety and rescue and I am its chairman. He and I know that it is becoming increasingly apparent that we are not learning many lessons from serious fire incidents. If we look at the causes of major incidents over the past few decades, we will see that there are many common features and similarities. One example is the 2009 Lakanal House tower block fire, in which six people were killed and 20 injured. Many of the causes of that fire, as well as other, more recent fires, were the same as the Summerland fire 40 years ago. The Summerland inquiry recommended that architectural training should include a much extended study of fire protection and precautions. Yet 40 years later, what on earth has happened? I believe that many lives are being lost unnecessarily because we are not implementing that advice. I hope the Government will do something about it.
I am also worried about the Disclosure and Barring Service, previously known as the Criminal Records Bureau. A number of my constituents have had issues with it and one constituent in particular—a young man with Asperger’s—is finding it very hard to find employment because of it. A DBS certificate is now needed before people can apply for many jobs, including in schools and even cleaning positions, but my constituent is not able to obtain such a certificate, because it has to go through a recognised organisation. Given that the certificate is required before people can start jobs, my constituent is in a very difficult position.
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
I join the hon. Member for Southend West (Mr Amess) in wishing you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and all the House staff a happy Christmas and a great 2014. It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Gentleman, a fellow West Ham supporter, especially on the day after one of our rare wins this season, which has struck a cheerful note. I will not speak on as many subjects as he did. I want to cover only two—the Deputy Leader of the House is nodding in approval—which are the individual case of my constituent Mrs Afsana Lachaux, and the firefighters pension dispute, about which I shall speak briefly.
Afsana Lachaux is a friend of mine, who has been a constituent. She moved to Dubai, but is now stranded there. She is a UK citizen and a Muslim in a Muslim country, but being a woman, she is at a great disadvantage because she is in dispute with her husband over the custody of their child following the breakdown of their relationship.
For nearly three years, I have tried to help the family to resolve this case. I had very good support from the former Foreign Office Minister, the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), and I have engaged with the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the right hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Hugh Robertson), while our staff in Dubai have also tried to do what they can to help, so I am not making any criticism about that. There has been criticism from the family, who do not think that enough is being done by me, the Foreign Office or our consular staff in the Emirates, but if I was in the family’s position, I would probably feel exactly the same. Their relative—their mother, their sister—has been completely stranded. She has been accused by her estranged husband, who has a record of domestic violence, of all manner of criminal activities. She has been arrested by the Dubai police. She has been jailed. She has been beaten up. She has had the most horrendous experiences at the hands of the Emirati authorities in Dubai.
Sadly, although Afsana is a Muslim, because she is a woman in a Muslim country and because she is being reported by a man, even though he is French and, I believe, is not a Muslim, she has to explain and defend herself to each set of police officers who come to arrest her and, when she goes to report at police stations and is detained, she has to go through the elaborate process of explaining her circumstances all over again. She is not able to work and is surviving on what her family can send to her from London.
To compound Afsana’s misery, she found out last month that her husband had divorced her and had successfully sued for custody of their child in a sharia court in Dubai more than 12 months ago. The rule in the UAE and under sharia law is that if 12 months have lapsed and the decision of the court has not been challenged, it is no longer appealable and is upheld. She was divorced and lost custody, but was not even aware of the fact.
As Members can imagine, this woman, who has been brutalised, feels totally isolated, completely let down by everybody in authority and persecuted by the authorities in Dubai. She has now found out that she has lost those legal cases. That is a dreadful situation to be in.
I am taking the opportunity to raise the matter this afternoon to demonstrate to the family that people here care about Afsana and that the Foreign Office and the consular officials are working on the case. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, has agreed to meet me and I have had meetings with his predecessor on the matter. We have tried to meet the French ambassador. I have had a meeting in the past two years with the UAE ambassador. Sadly, given that child custody is involved and given the nature of the case, it is very difficult to penetrate the legal procedures in the Emirates and in Dubai.
I want to place on the record my appreciation for the efforts that have been made. I hope that we can redouble them to help Afsana escape and to challenge the custody decision of the courts in Dubai. Afsana’s sister, Rosina Aman, who is my constituent, and her son, Rabbhi Yahiya, will appreciate everything and anything that can be done to help their relative.
The second issue that I want to raise is the firefighters pension dispute. There is pretty much consensus among those on both Front Benches that the retirement age for firefighters had to be changed. That was certainly the case when I was fire Minister. The terms of the pension scheme were that firefighters had to take compulsory retirement after 30 years’ service or on reaching the age of 55. It was felt that a number of firefighters could work and wanted to work past that. The changes to the rules were supported by the Labour Government and they have been amended recently by the coalition.
There has been a big change in the situation that has led to the fire disputes that have raged across our country for months. When we put forward our proposals, my understanding was that firefighters would not be penalised if they had to retire early on the basis of fitness or health and that their pensions would not be unfairly reduced if they could not stay on until 60. That has changed partly because of the cuts, partly because of austerity and partly because of the success of the fire service in reducing the number of calls, fires, deaths and injuries. That is partly the result of better building regulations and procedures being introduced over the past 50 years, notwithstanding the point that the hon. Member for Southend West made about fires, which was entirely valid. Overall, because we mostly live in double-glazed and insulated homes with central heating and because fewer people smoke, there are fewer fires. The fire service’s education and prevention teams have been extremely successful in reducing the number of fires, and therefore the number of injuries and fatalities. The authorities therefore think that we need fewer firefighters and fire stations.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we discard far too early the experience of firefighters who have given most of their lives to saving lives? If firefighters are not fit to do the really physical work, there are key jobs that they can do in fire prevention, fitting smoke alarms and giving general advice to all sorts of public authorities. Their experience should be used for the betterment of society, not thrown away.
Jim Fitzpatrick
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman because that is exactly the point that I was trying to establish. When we anticipated the extension of the retirement age to 60, we did not think that every operational firefighter would be fit and healthy enough to work until 60. We thought that opportunities would be found for them in back-room jobs in fire prevention, school education and all manner of support roles to ensure that we took advantage of, and did not waste, the experience that they had accumulated over many years on the front line. However, because of austerity and the cuts and reductions that have been made in the service because we do not need as many fire stations and firefighters, there are many fewer such positions for firefighters who are not fit to fulfil other duties.
Under the new rules that the Government are trying to push through, firefighters are faced with a massive reduction in their pension if they go before 60. We never anticipated that there would be such a punitive element in the pension arrangements because, as part of the new deal, firefighters are being asked to contribute another 2.6%, which takes their deductions up to 12.6%. Many of us know the fire Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), and we have a lot of time for a number of the things that he does. Everyone on the Government Front Bench keeps describing the firefighters pension scheme as generous. It is a good scheme, but they are expected to pay 12.6% for it and the reason for that is deaths and injuries. The scheme is valid and valued, as it ought to be, because of the nature of the job.
Colleagues regularly stand up in this House to applaud the role that has been played by the emergency services in dealing with some tragedy, disaster, flood or storm. These people risk their lives for us on a daily basis. In their view, they are being forced to take industrial action because nobody is listening. They might have to take a hit of up to a 50% cut in their pension because they cannot last until 60. I am 61 and am relatively fit. I know what that job is about because I did it for 23 years. I know what it is like to be on strike. No emergency service worker wants to go on strike. They risk their lives for 365 days a year and then they have to walk out the door and deny the community that they want to protect the ability, discipline and professionalism that they have built up.
This is a monstrous situation. My appeal to the Deputy Leader of the House is that he takes the strong message back to the fire Minister, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and the Prime Minister that we need serious negotiations. As the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) said, if there are places for firefighters to work away from the front line, they will fill those places.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
I will raise this matter, among others, when I speak. My hon. Friend should be aware that the general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union has received a letter from the fire Minister that is dated 18 December, which suggests that he is willing to meet again. The union is responding immediately because it is willing to meet the Minister any time, any place. However, there must be serious negotiations to settle the dispute. There is the potential to avoid strike action if the Minister is serious.
Jim Fitzpatrick
I am grateful to my hon. Friend because it is excellent news that the fire Minister has held out an olive branch to the Fire Brigades Union by saying that he is prepared to sit down with it, and that the union is contacting the Department for Communities and Local Government to set up the meeting. Nobody here wants to see any more fire strikes. Another series of strikes has been announced but I am convinced that nobody in the fire service wants to see more strikes. The last thing that the general public want to see is the withdrawal of any emergency service, with the cost and disruption that it causes to the authorities who have to provide the best possible cover.
In conclusion, I am grateful to the Foreign Office for what it is doing. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) for indicating that the fire Minister has extended an offer of talks. I hope that those talks take place. Like the hon. Member for Southend West, I conclude by wishing you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and all the staff a very happy Christmas.
Sir John Randall (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Con)
To me, this is a bit like groundhog day; this debate seems to have come full circle. The only difference is that I used to be on the Opposition Benches when I took part in it. I am delighted to see that some of the familiar faces from recess Adjournment debates are still around. It is one of the best opportunities we have to raise issues that we cannot always raise over the course of the Parliament.
As I said, I possibly come a little bit like the ghost of recess Adjournments past, and Members who are listening keenly may be able to hear the jangling of chains from my previous jailors, which I have not quite thrown off. Keeping to the Dickensian theme, I come here, as always, with “Great Expectations”, but I am rather of the Micawber school and think that something will turn up. There was a lot to be said for Mr Micawber, and his view of economics is one we would all share in with regard to annual income and expenditure. Hon. Members across the House ought to remember that.
While on the subject of Mr Micawber, when my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Mr Amess) spoke about culture and Southend—the two words are closely linked—I was reminded of an excellent production of “David Copperfield”. Mr Micawber, and various other roles, were played by a gentleman called Adrian Preater from Hotbuckle Productions, which is touring around the country. If any hon. Members wish to see that production in one of their local theatres, I can probably supply them with upcoming tour dates in the spring, and would be happy to do so. At the moment—I am reticent to say this, Madam Deputy Speaker—the company is appearing in a pantomime in Walton-on-Thames and doing MacLaddin. I am afraid that is somewhat Scottish in nature, and possibly takes a rather comical view of that, which I am sure would be disapproved of, although I hope to go and see the production at some stage. I am plugging the company so much because I am hoping for a role in its pantomime next year, and that at least one colleague from across the House will join me as one of the other ugly sisters, or something. We will have to see.
I have a few areas bottled up that I wish to discuss, and I will try not to detain the House for too long. My remarks will be more a trailer of things to come in the coming year; I will not really touch on some of the big feature films such as High Speed 2 and the third runway, because those will probably run and run. While we all enjoy Christmas, however, there are many people affected by those major transport infrastructure plans who have yet another year of great uncertainty ahead.
In my borough—not in my constituency but that of my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd)—are the wonderful, superb facilities offered by Hillingdon outdoor activities centre. That is very much under threat because a certain railway is planned to go straight through its middle and it will not be able to function. We are all trying to find a site for its relocation because it is a fantastic facility. It is not just for young people; it has lots of facilities for disabled people and serves a wide area. It is almost unique and must be found a new home if HS2 goes ahead.
We are discussing those who will have an uncertain Christmas and future, and I know the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) will almost certainly mention what will happen to many of his constituents who face losing their homes, places of worship and, as we know, the places where the dead are buried. Those serious issues concern us greatly and I understand the passion they engender.
We are lucky to have in the Colne valley a lot of gravel pits that are used for various things such as sailing and wildlife habitats. I shall visit the Broadwater site in January to see whether anything can be done to relocate the Hillingdon outdoor activities centre there.
I must declare my interest as a member of four wildlife trusts. It is always difficult to balance different interests with different habitats. Apart from looking at the impact of HS2 on my constituency, I will look seriously at its impact on ecology all along the line. Not too far from my constituency, a little further up the line, are colonies of Bechstein’s bats. That may not seem the most pressing issue, but they are an endangered species in Europe and we must take serious note of that, as well as many other things. Although it is unlikely that Mrs Randall is listening to this debate, I am hoping she knows that on my Christmas list is a bat detector. I now have a bit more time and I am going to try to find where all the bats are. They can be detected by their different frequencies. In the new year, if anyone sees me walking around holding something in my hand outside the House of Commons or in the environs of the Palace, I will be trying to find out “who’s bats” and where they are.
Reading the report earlier, I noticed that HS2 will also impact on the barn owl population, although there are some measures to address that. I hope that when HS2 Ltd looks at such matters, it will take the advice of wildlife trusts, and others, on how to mitigate the impact of the project.
The country can set an example, but on an international scale there is one pressing area in which I know the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been active and where we must keep up the pressure. The Virunga national park in the Democratic Republic of the Congo is threatened because 80% of the land has been allocated for oil concessions. It was, I think, the first wildlife park, and it was set up a long time ago at the beginning of the 20th century. It contains important biodiversity, including mountain gorillas and okapis. We must keep up that pressure, and although it is not strictly within our competence, this country is in a position to lead on those issues.
Where we do have competence is in our own country, and in the forthcoming months I shall raise the issue of the protection of our upland habitats. England’s habitats are vital stores of beauty, biodiversity and sequestered carbon, but they seem to be mismanaged. They sustain populations of endangered or critically listed species such as black grouse, curlews, hen harriers and freshwater pearl mussels. Despite the protection that has been afforded in many ways, a lot of bird species have declined in numbers.
While not wishing to seem too ambitious with my Christmas list, I have asked for something else—in fact, I have actually purchased it to ensure I get it because by and large in this world it is better to make sure we get what we want. It is an excellent piece of work—a bird atlas—compiled recently by the British Trust for Ornithology. It is a follow-up to a previous work, and before any of us had heard of the big society, this was an example of the big society in action. Volunteers go throughout the British isles, map the bird species they have seen over a period of several years, and then put them into a huge compilation. The important thing this time around is that we can compare it with the previous one, which I think was published 10 years ago, and see exactly what has improved and what species have declined. Some populations have declined dramatically—the whinchat population is down by 57%; curlews are down by 44%; and lapwings by 32%—and we have to take note of that. There have been huge reductions in some species. Not all of those problems are man-made. Some are due to climate change. However, there are things we can do.
One of the things that I am most upset about is the striking loss of a species called the hen harrier. The male hen harrier is a magnificent grey creature. The female is also magnificent, but not quite so grey—more brown, really. It is estimated that its habitat in England could sustain more than 300 pairs. Last year was the first time ever that no hen harriers bred in England—a direct result, I think, of man’s intervention. Unfortunately, one habitat that hen harriers like is the grouse moor—grouse are one of their favoured prey. You can probably sense, Madam Deputy Speaker, where the conflict lies. Grouse moors are managed commercial interests. However, they do not have to be managed quite in the way they are and some offences that are committed will be criminal.
A recent report by the Law Commission set out recommendations following consultation on potential changes to wildlife law. Much in the report was very good. I was a little disappointed to see that it did not go down the line of suggesting that the Government should introduce a provision for vicarious liability, where employers are legally responsible for wildlife crimes committed by their employees. I know that is a contentious subject, and if I was still in the Whips Office I would be tut-tutting because it falls into the “rather difficult” category. However, we cannot afford to lose species such as the hen harrier just because commercial interests have taken the view that wildlife is in their way. We must do something about it.
The first wildlife laws were introduced in 1954. I am pleased to say that it was 10 years later, in 1964, when I was a very small boy, that I first became a member of the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds. I have been a member for 50 years. It is an interest that was with me a long time before I gained all the other interests that I mention in this House or elsewhere.
On the subject of crime, legal aid charges for the criminal Bar have not previously been within my competence or even interest, but I have suddenly become aware of them. Raising this matter will, unfortunately, put me slightly at odds with some of my colleagues, but I think these things have to be said from time to time, and at Christmas they may just forgive me for doing so. I am lucky, because I am not a lawyer—the legal profession is probably very lucky that I am not one too, but that goes without saying. I have discovered that the criminal Bar and criminal barristers are receiving a real-terms reduction of 30% in very high cost cases, and there are other reductions as well. In real terms, they are losing income. It is very easy for us in this House to think of all barristers as being extremely well paid and that they can afford it and so on. That perception is rather like the one of Members of Parliament: we are portrayed as always being extremely well paid, and that we can do without this and that.
Sometimes the truth is not always the popular perception. In fact, only a few—a significant few—earn very high fees. The level of competence in defence cases will be reduced, because chambers will use their most junior members. I apologise to the legal profession for not quite understanding exactly what goes on, because I try to keep well away from the law—I find, by and large, that that is a useful thing to do. I can see, however, after talking to people, that the reductions could lead almost to the extinction of the self-employed criminal Bar as a specialist referral profession of excellence. There will be an increase in cost to the taxpayer eventually, even though the reason for the reductions is to make savings; I will come back to the issue of savings in a moment. There might also be an impact on the quality of the judiciary, because the judiciary are promoted from the criminal Bar and people will have been taken out of the system. What worries me most is that what we value most highly in this country is, I think, our legal system: the jury system and the fact that people can get a high-quality defence when they need it.
I understand why we have to make savings— Mr Micawber was right. I also understand, however, that there are costs involved with prisoners not turning up on time. I am sure that if I was sitting on the Opposition Benches I might mention some of the organisations, which are more private than public, that are responsible for bringing prisoners to court. The interpreter system is costly and sometimes interpreters are not always there at the right time. Any delays in the court system—aside from the potential misery caused to defendants, the prosecution and witnesses—bring with them a large element of cost. That all has to be looked at, and I will return to that. I may have to do a bit more work on understanding how it all works—I always think that when people talk about the Bar, they are talking about something else, but I shall have to move away from old habits.
Moving effortlessly on to my final remarks, as I mentioned earlier to my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West, one of my previous roles was Chair of the Joint Committee on Security. In that role, I found a greater understanding of how this place is secured and looked after. I would like to thank publicly the work of the police and the security people in this place. I would also like to thank the Metropolitan police. I was listening to the “Today” programme earlier and the Metropolitan police have not had the best of years. That always happens when one or two things have gone wrong, or when there has been a bad apple. That can happen, as we know, in every walk of life and in every profession. We should not lose our faith in the Metropolitan police and we should thank them for what they do. While we are back at home on Christmas day, or whatever we are doing over Christmas, police will be guarding the Palace of Westminster. They will be outside Downing street, whatever the weather, and potentially subject to real threats. I remember going out with the police a few years ago. They had just had a call through to go to a pub where a big fight was going on. They did not know what to expect—there could have been knives or firearms—but they went out of the van unarmed. We owe them all a huge debt of gratitude. I still think, as I am sure many other Members do, that we have the finest police service in the world.
I would also like to thank publicly—because they are not seen publicly—the civil servants who helped me when I was in the Whips Office, both in opposition and, more especially, in government. They were wonderful. They had to put up with all sorts of things going on. Do not think for one minute, Mr Deputy Speaker, that government is anything but a smooth and efficient operation without crises and so on, but occasionally such things might happen, and at those times two people in particular, Mr Roy Stone and Mr Mark Kelly, have been on hand. Normally they work under the title of “the usual channels”, but they are more than that; they are absolutely unusual in their devotion to duty and their abilities. I would like to put on the record my thanks to them.
Jim Fitzpatrick
I was not deputy Chief Whip, but I was Vice-Chamberlain of the Household, and I saw at first hand the excellent work of “the usual channels”, which must be one of the most modest generics ever dreamt up for two of the most professional civil servants that one could possibly come across. I fully endorse everything the right hon. Gentleman says about the usual channels.
Sir John Randall
I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that. We know exactly how hard those people work.
In conclusion, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to wish everybody in the House, regardless of what side they sit on or what their views are—even, just about, those who want to build a runway in my borough—a happy Christmas. We are going to have an exciting new year. That is my promise to hon. Members.
John McDonnell
I am so sorry. I have a directional problem: I am lost once I get north of the A40, I am afraid.
It was proposed that those firefighters who were incapable of completing all of their duties could be moved to other roles, but then, unfortunately, the cuts took place and we identified that, in one year, there were only 15 vacancies to which front-line firefighters could be transferred in way that would enable them to continue in work and to pay into their pension and earn a wage. The reason for the disputes was that employers and the Government refused to recognise that there was an issue about the capability and fitness problem faced by firefighters. A strike took place, which at least led to a breakthrough in that employers recognised that there was an issue that had to be addressed. Negotiations took place on eight points, but they basically foundered on two main ones.
The first, which was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse, was the risk of having no job and no pension. Firefighters find that they physically cannot do the job, which all the evidence points towards. To be frank, I do not want a geriatric firefighter coming up a ladder to rescue me, and all the evidence demonstrates that as firefighters reach 55 or 60, their capability goes down. In addition, there is further evidence about the—short—longevity of firefighters after they retire.
Jim Fitzpatrick
My hon. Friend referred to the Williams inquiry. Williams said that estimates were that from 20% up to 90% of firefighters would not be able to work until 60, so there is a big demand for alternative employment for them or for their pensions to be honoured.
John McDonnell
I thought that the FBU was fairly reasonable in simply asking for some guarantee to take back to its members about their having either a job or a pension. It is as simple as that: the problem is that people cannot be in the situation of having no job and no pension. As I have said, the employers and the Government accepted that there was an issue to address, but how were firefighters to gain such a guarantee? That is the problem of the dispute at the moment.
In the negotiations, the fire Minister eventually offered a change to the national framework so that there is guidance to employers that some form of security should be given to firefighters in the form either of a job or of a guaranteed pension. The problem about the national framework is that it is guidance; it is not legally enforceable. The FBU has brought cases, so there is case law, and Lord Justice Rix has clearly demonstrated that the framework is guidance that employers can ignore. It is as simple as that. One problem with Ministers coming and going is that when Ministers give guidance, some employers perhaps abide by it for a period, but Ministers come and go and Governments come and go, and employers eventually interpret the guidance as they see fit.
The FBU put forward a draft proposal that instead of guidance, the fire Minister should adopt regulations linked to the pension scheme. If he had accepted that, one of the main points of the dispute would have been resolved, but that was refused. The FBU has warned of further strike action. It has balloted its members and received overwhelming support for strike action. As a result of the legal process that unions have to go through, it has now had to call the dates for the strikes. The Minister wrote yesterday to say that he was willing to meet it again, but as I said in an intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse, the FBU is willing to meet any time, any place—wherever the Minister wants—but the talks have to be meaningful, not just another round of public relations stunts or spin.
I have a lot of time for the fire Minister, but given the seriousness of the dispute, I would say at this point that the issue has reached Secretary of State level. As happened in the last fire dispute, the Secretary of State has to come to the table to start negotiations. In the last fire dispute under the previous Government, I remember the Prime Minister getting involved at one point to try to hammer out the issue so that people were not put at risk. We are within days of another dispute leading to another strike, and the Secretary of State needs at least to get involved in starting off negotiations. His coming to the table would demonstrate a seriousness of intent.
The other issue, which I will not go into in depth, is that of contributions. That was mentioned by my hon. Friend, who gave the figures in percentage terms. Under the new pension scheme, there will be an increase in contributions each year for four years: for members of the 2006 scheme, contributions will go up from 8.5% in 2011 to 12.6% in 2015. A firefighter on a salary of £29,766 will pay more than £4,000 a year for their pension alone if those increases are imposed. That is a significant increase for people who are on a relatively modest wage for professionals in this field.
I urge all Members, because the onus is on all of us, to ensure that we lay the path for negotiations to head off the current dispute. I think that the Secretary of State needs to come to the table for meaningful discussions to resolve the matter. I am happy to assist in the discussions at any time and to try to get people together. The FBU has made it very clear over the past 24 hours that it is willing to talk, but that the talks must be serious.
Another staffing issue that I want to raise relates to staff in this House. The dispute of the Commons Tea Room staff has still not been resolved a year on. To make Members aware of what happened, let me say that elements of the new management decided to reinterpret the contract that some of the Members’ Tea Room staff had been working on for more than 20 years. They decided that the old contract had been misinterpreted by the previous management and introduced what was effectively a reduction in pay and conditions. The dispute has gone on and negotiations have taken place, but it has not been resolved. I am told that the next stage is that the individual members of staff are getting together as a group to meet management again.
We are well served by those staff. They work incredibly hard, sometimes with demanding Members coming in at all hours and wanting all sorts of foodstuffs. They always serve us with a smile. I think that they deserve a bit more respect than they are getting. Trying to tear up their conditions of service when some of them have been working there for two decades is just not acceptable.
Last week, I met the security staff here who are members of the Public and Commercial Services Union. I am chair of the PCS parliamentary group. New rosters were imposed on the security staff earlier this year. There was a strike, but it did not resolve the issue and the rosters were still imposed. The new rosters reduce the flexibility of the work and impact on carers. Those people are largely women, because they tend to be the carers in society, but it affects parents generally and other types of carers. The staff have demonstrated to management that the new rosters are costing more than the old ones because of the high levels of overtime that have to be paid and the lack of flexibility.
The security staff are employed by the Metropolitan police on a contract. That contract is up for renegotiation in 2015. The staff are worried that they are being set up for privatisation. They want to enter into negotiations with management so that staff are able to continue with that contract or, if the Metropolitan police do not want the contract, the staff can be brought in-house. If Members have the time, they should speak to the security staff, because they are unhappy and disgruntled. They are worried not only about their terms of service, but that their service is not good enough because they do not have the flexibility that they used to have, that it is costing more and that their position will be undermined in the longer term.
I want to make two last points. The right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Sir John Randall) spoke about the Metropolitan police. I am anxious about what is happening in the Met. A range of cuts are feeding through. Safer neighbourhood teams were one of the best policing reforms that were undertaken by the last Government. It is good to have a local sergeant, two police constables and a couple of police community support officers located within the ward and to have the guarantee that they will not be pulled out of the ward for other extraneous duties. The cuts that are coming through now are undermining safer neighbourhood policing in our areas. There are not sufficient PCs, the recruitment of PCSOs is not happening and safer neighbourhood teams are being combined. That is breaking down the local connection.
The retirement of a large number of officers who had long service means that we have lost a lot of experienced police officers. When we lose that experience we also lose the supervision, and I am anxious about that. In my constituency, as in many across London, we are losing police officers and their visibility on the streets is being reduced. At the same time—I agree about this with the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip and we share the same borough—the quality of policing we receive is superb. The police work extremely hard under extremely difficult circumstances and with reducing resources.
Finally, I will refer to one happy piece of news. The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain is a small trade union that has been running a campaign to secure the living wage for cleaners, particularly in central London and the City. One employer that has been a difficult nut to crack is a company called MITIE. The union organised its workers and there have been disputes and demonstrations. MITIE issued a letter to all its staff, basically saying that any appearance on a demonstration related to the living wage would be interpreted as gross misconduct and they would be dismissed. After a short campaign by the cleaners and an early-day motion in this House, and thanks to the hard work of the union organiser, Chris Ford, negotiations have taken place over the past couple of days. MITIE is now in negotiations with the union about the living wage in relation to the contract. It has withdrawn its threatening letter to the staff and even sent out a letter apologising to them. I congratulate the IWGB—in particular the organiser, Chris Ford—on that success, and also the employer for seeing sense and coming back to the negotiating table. I hope that will send a message to other employers.
We all sort of glamorise John Lewis as a wonderful mutual—apart, that is, for the fact that it has outsourced its cleaners who are not part of the mutual system and not paid the London living wage. Again, the IWGB has been running a campaign on that, and I have been on the picket lines, trying to urge that company to recognise that its cleaners should be part of its mutual structure and paid properly. The other group of workers who I think will be mobilised over the coming period are fast-food workers. They are largely not unionised and many are on the minimum wage with poor employment conditions. We have convened a meeting in the House of Commons next year to bring together all those unions, and others who want to campaign for the rights of fast-food workers in the new year.
In the spirit of Christmas, I wish hon. Members a happy Christmas and a determined and campaigning new year.
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Brake)
There is quite a lot to respond to, and I hope to be able to touch on most of the points that have been raised. I shall certainly respond to those Members who are still in their place. I was perhaps hoping that my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Mr Amess) would not reappear, because the duration of my speech would have been halved if I had not needed to respond to all the points that he raised. He has returned to his place, however, so I shall respond to him for starters.
My hon. Friend raised concerns about certain House matters, including Tuesday sittings, Prime Minister’s questions and the fact that the Press Gallery was always empty. Those are things that the House can discuss, and Members will be able to tell us whether they are happy with the Tuesday sittings and whether they are content to keep Prime Minister’s questions as a half-hour slot on a Wednesday, rather than reverting to the two 15-minute slots on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
My hon. Friend also expressed concern that there were too many quangos, but I hope he welcomes the fact that the coalition Government have got rid of a substantial number of them. He asked about the Chilcot inquiry. If he is familiar with its website, he will be able to look at the latest exchange of correspondence on that matter and to see where we are at. Obviously, we want the inquiry to publish its findings, and we should not try to pre-empt their content.
My hon. Friend also expressed concern about some aspects of freedom of information. He then went on to talk about air pollution, describing it as a hidden killer. I agree with him on that. The fact that people do not visibly drop dead from air pollution means that it is not treated with the same seriousness as heart attacks and strokes. He was right to say that its principal source, apart from industry, is the tailpipes of the cars and other vehicles that we all drive around in. The Government take the issue seriously and we are working towards the legally binding pollution limits set out in European Union legislation. My hon. Friend also rightly highlighted the importance of alternative fuels, such as liquefied petroleum gas, and the fact that they can make a big difference to air quality. He went on to touch on the issue of fire safety.
Tom Brake
I will give way when I have finished this point. Again, I agree with my hon. Friend that it is important that we all learn lessons from fire incidents and that best practice is spread effectively. On that point, I give way to someone who knows an awful lot about these matters.
Jim Fitzpatrick
I was going to pick up the point on pollution. European regulations require air quality to be up to a certain mark, but London is failing on so many counts that we have a five-year derogation. If fines are levelled against the UK, will they have to be paid for by the UK Government or the Mayor of London?
Tom Brake
I wish I had not given way, because I do not know the answer to that question. However, I am sure that we can secure a written response for the hon. Gentleman, who has highlighted the fact that we have significant air quality issues to address in London. The Mayor does need to tackle them firmly. I know that he has launched certain initiatives, but the impact of vehicles is significant and we need to examine wider measures to try to tackle the problem.
My hon. Friend then discussed the Disclosure and Barring Service, which was previously the Criminal Records Bureau. I suspect that many hon. Members will have encountered issues with the CRB and the DBS relating to turnaround times. Often it is not clear where the delays are occurring, because sometimes they are in securing a response from the police. He touched on the issue of school governors, and I think we can all agree that they play an essential role and make a substantial contribution. I suspect that many hon. Members will have been, or may still be, a school governor. As he stated, they need specific skills, and he identified finance as an area where we perhaps need more people coming in. I encourage them to do so.
My hon. Friend touched on the issue of blue badges. He, like me, and I am sure other hon. Members, has experienced some issues relating to the changes that have taken place with that service. I am sure he represents very effectively his constituents who are experiencing difficulties because they were in receipt of a badge but now are finding that it is not available to them.
My hon. Friend mentioned hepatitis. The Department of Health recognises the public health importance of tackling viral hepatitis in England; it imposes a significant burden on the NHS, so he was right to highlight the importance of tackling it. He referred to the South Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust, which provides mental health services, expressing some concerns about that. Clearly I am not going to refer to any individual cases, but I hope that one thing he would take as a positive step forward is the fact that the Government and the Minister who leads on these issues have been strong in pushing for parity of esteem; in other words, people with mental health issues should be treated in exactly the same way as we would expect people who need to go through the acute health service to be treated. They should get identical quality of care and should see pathways that operate just as effectively.
My hon. Friend also touched on the exotic pet trade, which is a serious contributory factor to the threat of extinction faced by many endangered species. The UK Border Force is responsible for dealing with that, and we need to ensure that anyone dealing in that particular trade follows the rules and completes the right paperwork to ensure that everything is above board.
My hon. Friend mentioned Ray Woodcock, a great granddad who has just broken a Guinness world record, jumping 384 feet down into a flooded quarry. I will make sure that the Chief Whips hear of that, because it may have other potential uses for MPs who misspeak in this place.
Finally, my hon. Friend talked about Southend’s city of culture. It brought a smile to my face when he identified Southend as the alternative city of culture. That is something we can all smile about and welcome. I am sure we will follow developments carefully. I thank my hon. Friend for opening the debate. That leaves me a little bit of time to respond to the other contributions.
The first point that the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) raised was about Afsana, a constituent of his who is stranded in Dubai. I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has had the support that he needed from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the consular staff, although I understand perfectly why the family will feel that that is not sufficient, given the very serious predicament that their family member is in. I am pleased to hear that a meeting with the Minister has already been agreed, and I am sure the hon. Gentleman will pursue the matter as assiduously in that meeting as he has done previously. I am sure that the FCO and consular staff will do everything in their power to help resolve the problem, although all of us who have had experiences of constituents abroad dealing with other legal systems know that that is one of the biggest challenges any Member of Parliament can face in taking up issues on behalf of constituents.
The hon. Gentleman touched on the issue of firefighters’ pensions. He obviously has extensive knowledge of that, which he brings in a very positive way to the Chamber this afternoon. He highlighted some aspects and recognised that it is a good scheme for firefighters. He will know, and I know as a result of a chance meeting with a firefighter while I was out canvassing at the weekend, that the contribution that firefighters make to their pensions is quite significant. The figure that I was quoted was £900 a month as a pension contribution. I am aware that the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), has stated his willingness to engage with the Fire Brigades Union, and I hope that will be pursued, as it is not in the interest of the FBU, the Government or the wider public for strike action to go ahead. If there is a possibility of the talks finding a resolution, let us pursue that option.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Sir John Randall) is in his place. I wish him every success in seeking out that plum role in panto. That was everyone’s cue for “Oh no, you don’t”, but they were too slow. My right hon. Friend referred to HS2 and the third runway. It is clear that, particularly in relation to HS2, there will be many opportunities to discuss that further in the months and years to come.
My right hon. Friend dwelt at some length on his interests. From the trip that we both undertook to Venezuela and Brazil some year ago, I know about his interest in environmental matters, wildlife and especially bird life. I recommend that he does not walk around Clapham common in the dark with his bat detection material. He may want to choose another location. He spoke about the Democratic Republic of the Congo and concerns there about its wildlife park. I agree that that is a significant issue, but the DRC has a much wider range of issues that we need to contribute towards resolving, as well as that concern. My right hon. Friend raised the issue of upland habitats here. He may have the opportunity at DEFRA questions on 9 January to raise that and other environment-related matters that he referred to.
There are a couple of issues that I will draw to the attention of the Ministry of Justice—vicarious liability and the changes to legal aid, which my right hon. Friend flagged up. He finished by thanking both the Metropolitan police and the staff of the House, and I join him in that. We all know as Members of Parliament that unfortunately the activities of a very small number of people tend to rub off on the activities of others who have no involvement in inappropriate activities.
The hon. Member for Falkirk (Eric Joyce) raised the serious issue of eating disorders. It is something the Government take very seriously, particularly among young people. We know that those most affected are young people between the ages of 14 and 25, and there might be as many as 1.1 million people—a substantial number—in the UK directly affected. Since April the relevant services have been commissioned by NHS England, so Members who represent English constituencies should raise concerns on the matter with it.
The hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy), who is no longer in his place, raised a large number of issues. He wanted us to remember 3 Mercian, which we will do. He referred to the role of the trust special administrator at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust. I think that he was pleased with some of the outcomes of the process but had concerns about others. I echo those concerns in relation to my local hospital, St Helier. It is a category 6 hospital, so one of the safest in the country, and the best in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for dealing with hip fractures, yet it is proposed, as a result of a clinician review, that its A and E and maternity departments should close, which I will fight very hard.
The hon. Gentleman raised a number of other health-related issues, which he might want to raise in health questions on 14 January. He also touched on HS2. Given that today we had Transport questions, in which HS2 featured prominently, followed by a statement from the Chair of the Transport Committee, I do not think that there is anything further that I could add. Finally, I was pleased to hear him speaking up for the Government’s position on international development. Following the actions of the previous Government, we are ensuring that we deliver 0.7% of GNI for international development. That gives us credibility around the world when we are talking about the subject. We are recognised internationally for that.
Like other Members, I winced and shuffled in my seat when the hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) described the painful process of hysteroscopy. I hope that she, on behalf of us all, will thank her constituent and the other women for providing that information. I think that we need a considered response from the Department of Health. Perhaps more guidance could be issued, whether for patients or doctors, because clearly she has identified a pattern with that procedure and I think that it needs a detailed response.
The hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) talked about beds in sheds. Members will know that the Prime Minister has visited Southall to look at that issue. We heard other contributions this afternoon on the private rented sector. It was clear from the cross-party consensus that emerged that something needs to be done. I am sure that the Backbench Business Committee would respond positively to a cross-party request to discuss those issues, because clearly it is unacceptable that people are living in sheds. It was noted that in Slough there were just over 6,100 houses where people were potentially living in sheds, although I suspect that some of them were cannabis farms, because of the heat generated. He also highlighted the number of fires that had happened over a three-year period—just under 350, with nine associated deaths. This not only has a very negative impact on the people who are having to live in those conditions; sometimes the consequences are significantly more serious.
I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman has yet responded to the housing Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Keighley (Kris Hopkins), who has written to him to say that he would be happy to meet him to discuss his concerns. He set out in his speech some possible solutions that I am sure the Minister would want to hear. Other Members made some important points that I am sure the Department for Communities and Local Government would appreciate hearing about.
The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) raised the issue of the third runway. On behalf of his local community, he has been an articulate and consistant advocate of not building that runway, under the coalition Government and under the previous Government. He also discussed HS2, the Fire Brigades Union dispute, and staffing in the House of Commons. He then talked about safer neighbourhood teams. As a London Member of Parliament, I think that unfortunately the changes that have happened mean that there is less visibility on the streets, and people are raising that in terms of the profile of the police. That is an area that we need to monitor. On the living wage, he highlighted the more positive developments in relation to MITIE and flagged up the actions that John Lewis might like to take in this respect. The Government are very supportive of employers who want to take that route, although one could take the view that some employers might find it difficult to provide the living wage.
The hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) referred to a very difficult case of abuse involving UK and UN personnel that occurred many years ago and did not comply with or satisfy any of the compensation schemes that were available. I can understand why his constituent and he would want closure on the issue. I will certainly draw it to the attention of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Ministry of Defence in terms of possible solutions.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned an infrastructure proposal regarding the A30 and the A303 and a bid for dualling, although he did not offer it up as an extremely long runway for Heathrow. He then talked about the village of Feniton and his concerns about flooding and the impact of housing development. There may be an opportunity for him to raise those issues as soon as we get back, because the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will respond to questions on 9 January and the Department for Communities and Local Government will respond to questions on 13 January.
The hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) complained that we were not having a themed debate today. He may or may not be aware that the Backbench Business Committee discussed the matter and felt that today’s debate should be in this format. Perhaps next time it will feel that it should be in the previous format, with themes. Perhaps housing could have been a theme for today’s debate, or fire brigade disputes—who knows what would have been appropriate? We have a Member here who will feed back the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, and we will see what decision the Committee makes for future pre-recess Adjournment debates.
I echo the hon. Gentleman’s praise for the contribution that the staff in this place make to the way in which we work. He then dwelled on housing in London, picking up the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East. He described the particular challenges faced in a borough like Islington—which I know about reasonably well having lived there some years ago—as regards the cost of housing and the need to build more affordable homes. I am not sure whether the Government would want to follow the hon. Member for Islington North down the route of regulating letting agencies, but he has identified an issue with private landlords that requires a solution. I will make sure that the proposal in his private Member’s Bill is drawn to the attention of the Department for Communities and Local Government to see whether it can provide a solution. Given that we have had substantial contributions on the issue of housing and the private rented sector in particular, the Backbench Business Committee may look favourably on a request for a debate early in the new year.
My hon. Friend the Member for Braintree (Mr Newmark), who has just left his place, thanked organisations in his constituency, including the Salvation Army and church groups. I am sure we would all want to echo those remarks. I will visit my local Salvation Army tomorrow to pick up some gifts for me to give to a family who cannot afford presents this Christmas. The Salvation Army is making a positive contribution at this festive time of year, as are church groups by organising lunches for people who might otherwise be alone.
My hon. Friend also referred to a couple of transport infrastructure projects and I will make sure that the Department for Transport is made aware of those two bids. I do not intend to visit cholesterol corner—it does not sound like a nice place to go—where people can get their arteries blocked in more ways than one: from KFC and McDonald’s to the traffic congestion at the junction.
I believe that I have touched on most or even all of the points that have been raised. In conclusion, I thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and the Clerks, the Door Keepers, the shadow Deputy Leader of the House the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith), every Member who has contributed to the debate, and the civil servants who have provided support to ensure that I and others were well briefed, as well as our constituency and Westminster staff. As Members of Parliament we are uniquely privileged in the positions we hold in this House and none of our work would be possible without the contribution that a whole range of people make to our lives.
I will finish with a big smile on my face, just to dispel the notion that I might be auditioning for “Grinch 3”. I wish everyone a merry Christmas and a happy new year.