(11 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this evening, Mr Deputy Speaker. I echo your festive greetings and wish you, your family and everyone in the House a merry Christmas. I also thank all the staff who have worked so hard for us over the past year. I would also like to extend Christmas greetings to the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire (Mr Vara), to whom I apologise for detaining him this evening. He has only recently been installed—or should I say reinstalled?—in Government and it is a pleasure to have him back, but I am afraid that some of my remarks will be critical of his Department. I am sure that things will start to look up because of his appointment.
I should first declare an interest as a non-practising solicitor. I have not worked in private practice since I was elected in 2001, but I bring previous experience of working in the criminal justice system in north Wales, as well as in Merseyside and Cheshire. I have many connections, which I maintain, with people working in the criminal justice system in north Wales, including solicitors, barristers, magistrates, magistrates’ clerks, probation officers and police officers.
I have never known such a state of flux in the criminal justice system in north Wales and, even more worryingly, such a lack of information for the community as a whole about the Government’s justice policy and how it will operate in future. It is creating enormous uncertainty for court staff, businesses connected to the courts and magistrates who commit time and substantial energy to the service, as well as for court users generally.
Magistrates courts and criminal justice are important to their communities. Summary justice is hundreds of years old, and it depends upon local input for effectiveness. It is indeed ironic that a Government who purport to promote localism appear determined to erase local justice from the map. What is this Government’s agenda for north Wales?
Magistrates and solicitors approached me early this year, when Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service in Wales issued a consultation document on the review of local justice areas in North Wales, the gist of which was to merge six magistrates court benches into three. When I read it, I was struck by the fact that none of the reasons given for that proposal referred to court users, but instead focused on issues such as
“a more cost effective and viable financial base”,
and “reduced administrative burdens”, as well as
“improved flexibility in the listing of cases within larger justice areas”.
In my town of Wrexham, there is real concern about the proposed merger of the local bench, which has been established for hundreds of years, with Flintshire. That would enable Wrexham cases to be listed in Mold, which would have a substantial impact on defendants, witnesses, lawyers, probation officers, magistrates and clerks. It would be the latest in a long line of changes to court work in north Wales that have centralised fine enforcement, road traffic cases and TV licensing work, taking local work away from courts in an effort to centralise.
The effect in Wrexham might be even more profound, as North Wales police currently intend to move custody facilities from the town centre to Llay, which is situated between Wrexham and Mold. The current custody facilities are immediately adjacent to Wrexham magistrates court, but I am concerned that if they move to Llay and the Ministry of Justice succeeds in its bid to merge magistrates benches, the combination of both factors will form part of a future case for moving magistrates’ business away from Wrexham completely. We might be seeing the start of a process that ultimately leads to the closure of the magistrates court in the largest town in north Wales.
I know from speaking to north Wales parliamentary colleagues from all parties that there is real concern across north Wales about the Ministry of Justice’s courts agenda. In response to the consultation earlier this year, I lodged a detailed submission on 21 April 2013, five days before the closure date. I made various points about the usage of the courts, and I raised issues relating to travel, impacts on local businesses—they have expressed their concerns to me about the proposal—and the additional cost to the public purse from increased travel costs. I concluded:
“I would also welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters with Wrexham Magistrates.”
I heard nothing for some time.
It is striking how remote the criminal justice system is from Members of Parliament in north Wales. There appears to be no willingness to engage with us on the part of the Ministry of Justice or Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service. That contrasts with our relations with the police force, the chief constable and even the new police and crime commissioner. The Ministry of Justice seems to be pursuing various agendas, thick and fast, without any consultation with the local community. What is the policy on courts and probation, and where is it leading? Even on the issue of Wrexham prison, where more information has been given, we still do not know whether it will be run by the public or private sector.
The roaring silence in response to my submission on court mergers continued. I wrote chasing e-mails. Eventually, on 22 May, I was informed that the consultation had been withdrawn
“as there was insufficient support from amongst the magistrates for a merger to proceed at this time”.
I was then astonished to be informed by local solicitors that the court service had cancelled the sittings in Wrexham on Mondays and that they were to be heard at Mold. It appeared that the proposals that had been envisaged in the consultation document were being taken forward despite the consultation and despite the reasoning that had been given by the local justices’ clerk for the withdrawal of the consultation. The proposals were proceeding without anyone bothering to have a consultation and expressly against the wishes of the local magistrates, who had not supported them.
The court is crucial to Wrexham. It is the biggest town in north Wales and a population centre. It is served by bus routes in a way that Mold is not and it supports small and larger solicitors practices that employ my constituents. Moving the magistrates court is of such importance to various groups in the town that they contacted me—something that they do not do often. They have asked me to look after their interests and the interests of the town. However, the court service has still not met me, despite my request, to tell me what is going on. I am willing to meet it, but I feel excluded.
Not everyone is excluded from the consultation. A lot of private discussion has been going on, from which the public and other interested parties have been cut out since the withdrawal of the public consultation document. On 2 July this year, the Secretary of State for Justice attended a political meeting of Wrexham Conservatives. In a report to Wrexham magistrates in August 2013, Sally Kenyon, the chair of the Wrexham bench said:
“I had the pleasure of meeting Chris Grayling…in Wrexham in July. I raised our concern that Wrexham is to lose the police cells adjacent to the court building”.
There is then a substantial passage setting out the views of the Secretary of State on his plans relating to the Ministry of Justice estate in north Wales. It quotes extensively, but selectively, from correspondence with the chair of the Wrexham bench. The Secretary of State concluded his correspondence by saying that
“there are no firm plans in relation to the relocation of criminal work to Mold.”
When I wrote to the Secretary of State subsequently for information on his discussions concerning Wrexham courts, he said:
“The purpose of my visit to Wrexham was for a private luncheon, rather than Departmental business”.
It is very clear, however, that departmental business was discussed at that private luncheon. In his letter to me of 10 October, on Ministry of Justice notepaper, the Secretary of State concludes with the same phrase that he used in his letter to the chair of the Wrexham bench:
“there are no firm plans in relation to the relocation of criminal work to Mold”.
In a letter to the Minister, I asked to meet him to find out about the agenda of the Ministry of Justice for the courts in north Wales. I am still waiting for a reply. A series of written parliamentary questions on the issue were answered with obfuscation and avoidance. I have, therefore, secured this debate.
Will the Minister please confirm that the Secretary of State conducted departmental business at what he described as a “private luncheon”? In particular, will he confirm that the Secretary of State discussed Wrexham magistrates court and Wrexham police cells with the chair of Wrexham bench? Will he release the full text of the Secretary of State’s letter to the chair of Wrexham magistrates bench so that the public can have confidence in the process, and so that all magistrates can see the full text of the correspondence? Does the Minister think it appropriate that the people of north Wales should be excluded from discussions on the future of criminal justice in north Wales? Does he think it appropriate for privileged access to the Secretary of State to be given to individuals because of political connections?
Will the Minister please arrange a briefing session for north Wales MPs to tell us, openly and honestly—as I am sure he will—what HM Courts Service intends to propose for north Wales? We had a consultation that was withdrawn as long ago as April, and actions have been taken by HM Courts Service to bring together services since then without any consultation or anyone having the opportunity to make representations. Does the MOJ have any intention to consult the people of Wrexham and, more broadly, of north Wales, on its proposals for courts in north Wales?
The way this issue has been handled to date is, quite simply, the worst I have encountered in 12 years as an MP. It has been conducted evasively, incompetently and, quite bluntly, with secrecy. I hope that the Minister will now open up the process so that MPs and the people of north Wales can be consulted about the criminal justice system in our area, and so that we know what is going on and can make appropriate representations.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Shailesh Vara)
I thank the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) for the kind comments he made at the outset of his remarks about my appointment. I assure him that it is no inconvenience for me to be here today, notwithstanding the fact that it is the last debate before the Christmas recess. I congratulate him on securing this debate. It is an important issue—all the more reason why I am pleased to be here—not only for the hon. Gentleman but for his constituents. That is evident from the number of parliamentary questions he has submitted, the correspondence in which he has engaged, and the fact he has secured this debate.
The hon. Gentleman raised a number of issues, and I hope that during my speech I will address some of his concerns. I apologise that the letter he wrote to me received a reply that was sent by e-mail only yesterday. As a colleague, I appreciate how many e-mails we all get, but it is somewhere in the system and I apologise for the delay, which should not have happened. I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman has had difficulty trying to arrange meetings with local judicial staff and, as far as I am able, I will try to assist to facilitate that meeting for him and his colleagues.
It is important to recognise two issues. We are talking about the potential merger of two benches, which is a matter for the judiciary. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that constitutionally, the judiciary is independent of the Executive. A potential merger of benches is a matter for the magistrates to come to a conclusion on, working with the justice clerk. The management of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service falls within the Ministry of Justice, so there is departmental responsibility at our end. As I proceed with my remarks, I hope I will address some of the issues raised by the hon. Gentleman.
Let me be clear at the outset: the delivery of criminal justice is a crucial priority for the Government. That is why, among other measures, we are investing in the digital courtroom, as part of the strategy and action plan for reform of the criminal justice system. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that effective magistrates courts are the cornerstone of our justice system. They deal with 95% of the criminal cases that go through the courts in England and Wales.
Mr Vara
The work that magistrates do in north Wales and across the court service is absolutely vital. The partnership between the magistracy and officials who manage the courts is an essential prerequisite for the successful operation of our magistrates courts. In the case of magistrates courts, this partnership is built up through regular meetings between bench chairs and officials, providing the opportunity to discuss the conduct of court business, including listing arrangements. It is therefore to be expected that the chairs of Wrexham and Mold benches would discuss the potential arrangement of local justice areas in north Wales during meetings with officials.
As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the local justices issues group concluded in late 2012 that the reorganisation of local justice areas, including the merger of the Wrexham and Flintshire local justice areas, would provide the most efficient framework for the administration of justice in north Wales.
I am aware that the hon. Gentleman took the time and trouble to respond in detail to the consultation. However, as he will be aware, the consultation was suspended when it became clear that the wider proposals for north Wales no longer had the support of all the bench chairs, as had been previously understood. Following further consideration, the proposals were withdrawn. I hope the hon. Gentleman will take away from that the fact that the voice of the people who took the trouble to take part in the consultation was heard. This is a decision based on views taken in by outsiders, and not on decisions taken at the top.
Mr Vara
I appreciate where the hon. Gentleman is coming from, but the listing of cases is a matter for the judiciary to decide as it sees best so that it can get the business done and hear as many cases as possible. It is important to recognise that distinction. As far as the consultation is concerned, it was pulled. I understand that there is talk among the magistrates—not at the Ministry of Justice end, but among the magistrates—that there may be another consultation, but that is a matter I hope he will be able to address in direct communications with them. As I said at the outset, I will try to facilitate a meeting for him.
It is important to appreciate that any new proposals to merge local justice areas in north Wales would be subject to a consultation. I am aware that the bench chairmen for Flintshire and Wrexham are keen to consult on mergers, because they believe they will result in a more efficient and effective structure for the magistracy in north-east Wales.
If a consultation does go ahead, all local magistrates, local authorities, members of the local criminal justice board and other interested parties—including, of course, all local MPs and other locally elected officials—will be able to comment. It would be for the justices clerk and the local justices issues group to consider the responses to the consultation and, should there be a case for merger, they will then formulate their final recommendation in respect of the new structure.
In considering changes to local justice areas, account will of course be taken of access to justice and how to deal effectively with the business of magistrates courts. This will include the needs of local communities and the wider criminal justice system infrastructure, the deployment of magistrates and their need for support, and the workload and deployment of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service staff.
I emphasise that changes to local justice areas take place periodically and are driven by the need to create listing efficiencies and deploy magistrates as efficiently as possible. If a new consultation on changes to local justice areas in north Wales takes place, it should not be viewed as an automatic precursor to the closure of a courthouse. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, North Wales police has announced plans, following public consultation, to improve service provision in north Wales, but these will not automatically lead to the closure of magistrates courts. We are aware that the police will vacate their existing premises in Wrexham in 2016-17, which will have implications for the court and how it deals with custody cases, but when circumstances change in this way, the Courts and Tribunals Service will need to assess the most appropriate way for criminal cases to be effectively delivered in the area.
The hon. Gentleman might feel that the lack of cells will automatically lead to the closure of the court, but that is not the case. He did not dwell on this in his speech, but he will be aware of it and the consultation by the local police. I can reassure him that an open and transparent consultation process is used when deciding whether to close a court. Crucially, any proposals on the future of a court are considered with emphasis on the local area and how justice is best served there. Several factors will be taken into consideration before starting a consultation, including an assessment of the work load and utilisation of the court. The Courts and Tribunals Service also takes into account whether a suitable alternative location for the work is available and whether it could be accommodated elsewhere without a detrimental impact on service levels. If a consultation is published, it is important that local stakeholders and partners and elected officials be properly engaged to ensure that all relevant views are taken into account.
There is then a full analysis of all responses received before any decision is made. The response to the consultation is always accompanied by an impact assessment. I hope that this reassures the hon. Gentleman that when there are proposals to change the deployment of magistrates or the court estate, proper and distinct processes are followed, ensuring that decisions are made only once the views of relevant parties have been considered through the open and transparent consultation processes. I stress that the Government are committed to providing court users in north Wales with proper and effective access to justice. In so doing, hard-working taxpayers rightly expect us to reduce the cost of operating courts and tribunals while maintaining an effective service for court users.
In this country, we have one of the best justice systems in the world. Whatever decisions are taken, it is always central to our thought process that we ensure this world-class justice system continues. On that note, I conclude by wishing you, Mr Deputy Speaker, the court officials and the hon. Gentleman a merry Christmas. Also, I extend a special greeting to the security staff, who look after us while we do our work and ensure we can do it safely.
Question put and agreed to.