Football Governance Bill

James Wild Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 23rd April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

We understand that parachute payments have a role to play. There is provision in the Bill to deal with parachute payments, but that provision relates to the consideration on a club-by-club basis in the licensing regime itself.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

When clubs like Norwich City are promoted to the Premier League, those parachute payments give them the confidence to invest, which drives competition in football. Are they not a good thing that we should be supporting?

[Lucy Frazer]

We believe that parachute payments have a role to play, although I know people have concerns about distortion. Under the Bill, if there is any issue relating to the finances of a particular club, particularly by reference to the parachute payments it might have received, the regulator has an ability to look at that within the licensing regime as a whole.

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[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I declare an interest as a Norwich City supporter and a King’s Lynn Town FC fan. As has been mentioned, it is fitting that on St George’s Day we are talking about our national game, which is loved by millions of people in our country. As we have heard, the premier league is also the most watched league in the world, and last year the EFL had the highest attendances for more than 70 years, with over 21 million supporters passing through turnstiles, so football is a great success story. It is in that context that we consider the Bill and the proposals to create a new regulatory structure for the game. As the explanatory notes set out, football was

“previously not regulated by statutory provisions”

and the measures are “unique” and “unprecedented”.

My first point is the one that I made a year ago when the Government published their response: we need to ensure that this is a truly proportionate regime and be mindful of the success of the game. That means having a light-touch regulator, which Ministers have committed themselves to. The Government response set out that the regulator would operate an advocacy-first approach to regulation, meaning that it would use constructive engagement rather than formal intervention wherever possible. However, that could be better reflected on the face of the Bill in the objectives and duties of the new regulator, otherwise the risk of mission creep is more likely to materialise. We have heard a number of contributions already this afternoon in which the regulator is being actively encouraged to expand its scope even before it has been set up.

I support the objectives of financial soundness and resilience, as well as safeguarding the heritage of football—the ground, the crest, the shirt colours and the name of a club are all part of its DNA. Incidentally, Norwich City can boast the oldest song in world football: “On the Ball, City.” I will not sing it. Football is competitive—it is about promotion, play-offs and passion—so the regulator must also understand the essence of the game and not reduce it to a dry, technical analysis of profits and losses, and impose a banking-style straitjacket on clubs.

As a member of the Regulatory Reform Group—I see the chairman, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Sir Robert Buckland), entering the Chamber as I speak— I welcome the principles set out in clause 8. However, they can certainly be strengthened to deliver that light-touch regime that is so important. The scale of the task that we will be asking the regulator to undertake will be considerable. It will have to review detailed business plans of 116 clubs and reach agreement on them.

In addition to the mandatory licence conditions, the regulator can impose discretionary requirements on any or all of those clubs. Such requirements would have to be bespoke, and they would then have to be monitored. Clearly, that comes at a cost, which has not really been discussed in the debate so far. The impact assessment estimates that the new regime could cost £132 million over 10 years. Admittedly, there is a lot of uncertainty, because we do not know precisely what conditions the regulator will put in place. That is money spent by clubs on football that in future will be spent on the costs of regulation. The national league is not the only one that has warned about the risk of the burden on smaller clubs. On licensing, the regulator must avoid duplicating existing requirements and ensure that it adopts a proportionate approach to the levy.

Clearly, a key driver of the legislation is money and how revenues are distributed through the pyramid that is so essential to the health of the game. This has been agreed on a voluntary basis to date, and it would be better if football came forward with its own solution. However, if that does not happen, there is part 6 of the Bill, which sets out the backstop mechanism. Either the Premier League or the EFL can trigger it, and if mediation does not work, a committee of experts drawn from the regulator’s panel will consider final proposals from both.

I have to confess to finding the decision process curious at that point, as rather than looking at each proposal and then adjudicating and determining what is the best overall approach, which could be between the two proposals put forward, the regulator can only opt for one of them. In any negotiation, if both sides feel a bit disappointed with the deal reached, it is likely to be fair. In this scenario, however, only one side will win, so I ask the Minister: why create an expert panel and a regulator if they are not able to apply their own judgment? Given the importance of that provision, I hope the Minister will outline the Government’s thinking. What consideration has been given to how that could be gamed, and will he look again at those provisions as the Bill goes forward?

On revenues, I will briefly focus on parachute payments, which are important elements in enabling clubs promoted to invest and, yes, to take calculated risks so that they can compete. If parachute payments were removed, clubs like Norwich City that are run sustainably and can get promoted—I am optimistic for the play-offs this year—would not have the confidence to invest, knowing that if they go down this path and get relegated, there would be no smoothing of their income. I therefore support the approach in clause 55.

Finally, I return to where we began, with the fan-led review. During covid, clubs were not able to let fans in, and King’s Lynn Town and others had to take sports survival loans—£13 million of them were issued—and their repayment threatens the viability of some clubs. As we look at financial resilience, I encourage the Minister to consider allowing clubs to convert, say, up to 49% of the loans they have taken out and give them to supporters’ trusts as shares. That would create a legacy of community ownership, which would be very worthwhile and would reduce the burden on clubs.

To conclude, football is an important part of our national character, and as the Bill proceeds it is essential that the regulator works with the game, the clubs and the league to ensure that football continues to flourish.

Zoological Society of London (Leases) Bill

James Wild Excerpts

Report stage
Friday 19th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I take your guidance. I agree with my hon. Friend that that could and should be potentially negotiated. That is, of course, a matter for discussion with the Crown Estate. It may well be that, following the general election and a new Parliament, we might consider taking that forward in a future Bill and a future debate, but for today the debate is about the extension of the lease.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I, along with a number of other Members, have been involved with the Society of Antiquaries’ discussions with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities about extending the society’s lease. I am very pleased that it successfully secured a 999-year lease extension. Was a similar length considered when my hon. Friend was putting together the Bill?

[Bob Blackman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. We started with a provision to extend the lease from its current form to 100 years. The investors who were approached by ZSL to consider whether that would allow them to do what is required said, “No, this is not enough. It would take a minimum of 150 years.” So it is fair to say that, in the negotiations between the Department, ZSL and me, we have come to a compromise of an extension to the lease of 150 years. Were the Department and the Crown Estate so minded, we could look at a 999-year lease extension, but that is what the Bill’s sponsors requested and what I am pleased to propose. I hope the House will go along with that proposal and that it can be put into law and come to fruition after the other place has had a look at it. If there is then another suggestion that we go for a much longer lease, that can be the subject of yet another Bill in the new Parliament and we could take that forward, if required. At the moment, it is not required, but as we know 999 years is effectively a freehold.

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[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I join in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) on bringing the Bill to this stage. Hopefully it will pass today and make its way through to become law. It is yet another private Member’s Bill that he has successfully shepherded through the House; I will have to get some tips from him on how to follow his lead and come higher in the ballot.

I recognise the important role that the Zoological Society of London plays as an international conservation charity. It restores wildlife in the UK and around the world, saves animals threatened with extinction, protects species and ecosystems, and conducts a lot of research internationally with partners. It also plays a fundamental role in inspiring the next generation of conservationists, which is obviously key.

We are here to talk about the impact that the Bill could have on the zoo, and that brings us to the animals. In January, the annual stocktake took place at London zoo, which is no mean feat, given that it is home to over 300 different species, from the endangered Galapagos giant tortoises—we heard about tortoises in an earlier debate—and Asiatic lions, to critically endangered Chinese giant salamanders and Sumatran tigers. It is very good news that three Asiatic lion cubs were born only a few weeks ago. That is a major boost to conservation, given that there are only around 600 to 700 such lions living in the wild. People will be reassured that the annual stocktake, which involves checking how many animals there are and that they are still in the zoo, is part of the licence requirements to which the zoo is subject in order to ensure public protection.

The kernel of this Bill is about safeguarding the future of ZSL and its important work. The society has been very clear about the effect of the current lease’s limitations, particularly on its ability to fundraise and create new partnerships that will enable it to enhance its work, including the support programmes that are available and the great community programmes that my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East talked about, such as discretionary access and cheaper tickets for local people to come to the zoo and see what is on offer. The benefits that a longer lease would offer have also been set out by the society. As we consider extending the lease, it is obviously important that we capture those benefits and then hold the society to account on delivering them, should it be granted the lease.

At its core, it is about having the world’s first campus for nature, with a centre of research and innovation that is dedicated to protecting biodiversity and strengthening nature, but it is also about enhancing technology. I came across Matthew Gould when he was head of NHSX, where he did a lot of work in developing apps and technology in the NHS. Bringing that knowledge and insight to the zoo in order to have more immersive experiences would be highly commendable.

The zoo is also looking at accessibility. My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East talked about the offers to local communities, but this is a world institution. It is one of the most visited attractions in the country, and I want my constituents in North West Norfolk, including children and people with special needs, to be able to benefit from such offers. There are obviously travel costs involved, but coming to see such a great facility is invaluable for them.

As it happens, my first date with my wife was at London zoo.

[Sir Chris Bryant]

You animal.

[James Wild]

Check out my surname. We had a lovely time, and obviously it paid off. My wife and I were at the zoo a few weeks ago with one of her friends and her young twins, and its ability to inspire is incredible. I watched those two little girls run off to look at the animals, and it was great. When my wife and I went on our first date, which was some time ago, we were a bit concerned about the state of the facilities. Some of the cages had signs to assure visitors that the animals were not in distress, even though they may have been pacing backwards and forwards. There was an urgent need for modernisation, and when I went back a few weeks ago I noted that some of the enclosures had been improved. I am thinking in particular of the penguin area, which is now a great facility and one of my favourite parts of the zoo.

A few Members have spoken about Guy the gorilla. I understand that his tooth decay was caused by him being fed sweets by people visiting the zoo, so it is very important that only zookeepers should feed the animals. It is important to get that on the record.

[Bob Blackman]

Gorillas are herbivores, so they should only be fed by keepers, as my hon. Friend rightly says. They should certainly not be fed sweets. Does he realise that gorillas share 98.4% of their DNA with human beings? They are very close to human beings. Just as tooth decay in humans is concerning, particularly among young children who eat sweets, the same thing applies to gorillas.

[James Wild]

My hon. Friend makes a very interesting observation.

[Sir Chris Bryant]

I bet Guy could get a dentist!

[James Wild]

From a sedentary position, the hon. Gentleman mentions dentistry. I could talk about the need for more dentists and dental vans in North West Norfolk, but that would obviously be beyond the scope of this debate—I will not encourage you to stand up to make me be quiet, Mr Deputy Speaker.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Ben Everitt) has pointed out, this is an enabling power; there is no guarantee of an extension, with that coming back to the plans put forward by the ZSL to convince people that it is deserving of this extension. It will be held to account and so it will be able to go off to raise the funds to enhance this world-class facility.

To conclude, having opened in 1826, the zoo will soon be celebrating 200 years. This important Bill will help to ensure that it continues to play the crucial role it has had since then in protecting animals by providing better enclosures and better facilities for them, and ensuring that vital research continues, while remaining a leading visitor attraction where people can come to learn more about our wonderful world.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

I call Sir Chris Bryant.

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[The Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries (Julia Lopez)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for introducing this Bill on the ZSL and the maximum lease term that may be granted to it, which has now reached its concluding stages in the Commons. I also wish to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Sir Christopher Chope) for casting his beady, expert eye over the Bill and for not moving his amendment, which led to a degree of shock and perhaps even gentle chaos. That should be seen as a tribute to his fearsome reputation for ruthless and relentless scrutiny. I would like to see that mantle of scrutiny taken up by my hon. Friends the Members for Devizes (Danny Kruger), for Broadland (Jerome Mayhew), for North West Norfolk (James Wild), for Milton Keynes North (Ben Everitt) and for Darlington (Peter Gibson), and my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey). It was good to hear her particular expertise, as a former Environment Secretary. I thank them for their scrutiny of the Bill.

[James Wild]

The amendment from my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Sir Christopher Chope) was about differentiating between residential areas within the zoo and other properties. Obviously, some discussions have taken place that I was not privy to, so I would be grateful if the Minister elaborated on what residential properties there are within the zoo and whether they are purely there for the zookeepers. Obviously, there is no working time directive for animals, as I believe one of my colleagues said, so there is a case to be made in that regard, but it would be good to understand a little more about the footprint of the residential areas.

[Julia Lopez]

I will come on to that later in my speech. I understand that we are talking about three properties, but I will probably contradict myself later.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is the Government’s sponsor of this Bill and our interest lies in the location of London zoo, in Regent’s Park, where the proposed extension of the maximum lease term grantable will be enacted. Regent’s Park is under the management of the Royal Parks charity, which is sponsored by my Department. Ultimately, the eight royal parks are owned by the Crown, with responsibility for them resting with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. I take an interest also as a London Member of Parliament, as the Tourism Minister—my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East mentioned that the zoo is an important part of the visitor economy, both locally and nationally—and as I have two young children who would benefit from visiting this tremendous attraction.

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[James Wild]

In an earlier intervention, I talked about the campaign that a number of colleagues were involved in on Burlington House, where a lot of expert societies are based. The freehold for that is the responsibility of the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. We finally got agreement from the relevant Minister there to extend the lease to 999 years. I would be interested in any reflections that this Minister has on the comparison between that length of time and the 150 years proposed in the Bill.

[Julia Lopez]

My understanding, which I have gained during the course of this debate, is that the 150-year lease is specific to the Crown Estate. I imagine that is for all sorts of historical reasons, but I am happy to go into those by writing to my hon. Friend.

The Government view the extension of the maximum lease term grantable to be a relatively uncontroversial change that will positively impact the organisation, allowing it to build its resilience, develop strategic philanthropic relationships, and increase the scope of potential commercial partnerships that will ensure its continued growth. It is also important to note that establishing the mechanism for a longer lease term will bring the Zoological Society of London into line with similar organisations that hold leases on Crown Estate land, including the Royal Botanic Gardens at Kew. The maximum allowable lease for the Royal Botanic Gardens in respect of land in Kew gardens was extended from 31 years to 150 years following the introduction of a Bill in 2019.

Granting a maximum lease term of 150 years to the Zoological Society of London will significantly and positively impact the organisation’s aims. For example, the society is at the forefront of efforts to reverse biodiversity loss, which is one of the biggest challenges of our time. A longer lease will allow for the creation of the world’s first campus for nature, a trans-disciplinary centre of research and innovation dedicated to the protection of biodiversity and strengthening nature. It will also help to reimagine the zoo’s landscape, providing ecosystem-driven spaces designed with an understanding of how each animal now thrives, and providing the assurance that our most at-risk species will be cared for and protected well into the future.

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[Julia Lopez]

That is true. As we have heard, Guy the gorilla would at first respond only to French, having spent the six months preceding his arrival in a Parisian zoo. His statue remains much loved by the zoo’s visitors. We have heard about Goldie the eagle, but I add to this collection my admiration for Ricky the rockhopper penguin, whom I met when I was keeper for the day. I now find myself heading to google the quagga, which I had not heard of before. The touching account of the life of Jumbo the elephant brought a solitary tear to my eye. That was quickly wiped away by the tales from my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk of how the wild animals of London zoo lit inside his heart his inner wild animal.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport recognises the immense value that the Zoological Society of London has within London and the nation at large and wishes to support all initiatives to ensure it has a strong future. Throughout its 195-year history, London zoo has solidified its reputation as an important and unique part of our capital’s heritage, culture and tourism offer. It is the capital’s 10th most-visited attraction and contributes more than £24 million annually to the local economy and more than £54 million to the national economy. It is also the world’s oldest scientific zoo, operating since 1828, and a world-leading force in wildlife conservation and biodiversity.

Charles Darwin, with his significant contributions to our understanding of science, became a fellow of the Zoological Society of London in 1839. During his time at London zoo, he studied the behaviour of animals and developed his revolutionary theories. Today, Darwin’s history is safeguarded in London zoo’s library, and the zoo also safeguards the pangolin, on which there has been extensive debate. The issue is close to my heart, as my niece and nephew held a successful pangolin bake sale when they were most in the news. They are, as we have discussed, the world’s most trafficked animal. Just to clarify for Members, that is because of their value as bush meat and as a delicacy, and their scales are used in traditional medicine and their skins are used for boots and belts.

[James Wild]

My hon. Friend is being generous in giving way. The chief executive of the Zoological Society of London has said how the Bill will secure the future of ZSL and London zoo, ensuring that they continue to inspire and educate millions, to do world-leading science and conservation, and to keep strong an important and much-loved institution. Does she have a sense of the scale of the investment that extending the lease will unlock in terms of the modernisation and improvements that will come from the world-class research facility that will be created through the Bill?

[Julia Lopez]

As we have heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East, the Bill will unlock substantial investment in the site. It will lead to the renovation of historic listed buildings, but also the creation of new, more appropriate habitats, now that we understand more about the animals that they contain. I firmly believe that the zoo is a historical asset worth championing and protecting for future generations. From its beginning, many leading architects have contributed to the zoo’s built environment. The collection of buildings includes two grade I and eight grade II and grade II* listed structures. The grade I listed penguin enclosure designed in the international modernist style by Berthold Lubetkin and constructed in 1934 is described by Historic England as:

“A key symbol of British (and International) Modern Movement architecture”.

Advances in our understanding of animal welfare have shown that many of the current structures within the zoo’s premises are simply no longer suitable for their intended purposes. Although the zoo has achieved many firsts—including the first reptile house, public aquarium, insect house and children’s zoo—work is ongoing to reimagine those spaces in innovative and sustainable ways.

Throughout, the Zoological Society of London’s efforts will ensure its central aims of conservation and care for endangered species remain at the core. The work of the society and the zoo supports the environmental principles outlined in the Environment Act 2021. The continuing existence of the zoo will preserve wildlife and other natural assets within its built environment and champion measures to reduce biodiversity loss. It is also important to note that the extension of the lease does not equate to extension of land occupied, and the remainder of Regent’s Park will be unaffected by the change.

There is reason to question our support of this Bill in respect of the impact on the public purse. I take this chance to confirm that neither the Zoological Society of London nor London zoo specifically receives any grant in aid from the Government. While the society is the recipient of research grants from Research England, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for international and domestic conservation work, those are applied for through official programmes. There would therefore be no significant impact on Government funding or accrual of public debt if the organisation’s maximum lease term were to be extended.

As a charity, the Zoological Society of London raises the vast majority of its income from its members and visitors to its conservation zoos, including London zoo. Additional field projects, including its community access initiative and rhino bond scheme, are funded through partnerships with funders across the globe. Looking forward, in 2028 London Zoo will celebrate 200 years since its opening, and I am sure I am not alone in wishing it success in the next 200 years. Continued modernisation and redevelopment will allow its animals to thrive, including through the development of the biodiversity campus to champion the needs of nature across sectors and to increase public engagement and learning opportunities.

In addition to benefiting its animals, research and scientific aims, an extension of the Zoological Society of London’s lease for London zoo will provide essential opportunities to access nature, respite and wellbeing for people of all ages and every background. In the February half-term last year, London zoo’s community access scheme enabled over 50,000 people on low-income and other benefits to access the zoo for only £3. Accessibility is a core aim of the zoo, which also runs audio-described tours, sign-language tours and early opening mornings aimed at autistic and neurodiverse visitors.

Over 80,000 school students visit the zoo each year, learning about wildlife conservation and the effects of climate change and plastics pollution. Protecting the future of this organisation through the extension of the maximum lease term makes sure that it will continue to educate and inspire the next generation. The Government are committed to supporting the Zoological Society of London’s ambitions to improve and invest to secure its continued role as a leader in the field. Extending the lease term is part of that much-needed support. We are sure that the Bill will offer the necessary support and protection to the Zoological Society of London and London zoo. I am very pleased to affirm our support for the Bill, and once again I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East for bringing it to the House.

BBC Funding

James Wild Excerpts

Monday 17th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Dorries]

The licence fee settlement ensures that the BBC can continue to meet its mission and its purposes, and it will continue to receive billions of pounds of funding—£23 billion over the licence fee settlement period.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

When the BBC came before the Public Accounts Committee, it was striking how unambitious its target was for growing commercial revenues, which represent just 6% of its current income. Will this welcome decision, including the increase in the borrowing limit, which the BBC asked for, come with a requirement for the BBC to increase that income rapidly and reduce the burden of the licence tax?

[Ms Dorries]

Increasing access to private equity was one of the first steps towards doing that.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

James Wild Excerpts

Monday 8th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con) [V]]

I welcome this Budget and the continued support for families and jobs in North West Norfolk. The scale of the package is vast, and I particularly welcome extending the universal credit uplift, continuing the furlough scheme and widening access to self-employment support.

The Chancellor once again recognised the very challenging situation faced by tourism and hospitality businesses. This is a vital part of west Norfolk’s economy, worth about £500 million and making up one in every five jobs, so it is great news that the business rates holiday and the 5% VAT rate, which I campaigned for, have been extended. There is also a strong case to consider extending the lower 12.5% VAT rate, which applies from October, on an ongoing basis.

Longer term, we need further action to build a more resilient visitor economy. The 2019 sector deal pledged to create five tourism zones, increase visitor numbers, extend the season and invest in skills. Visit East of England and the New Anglia local enterprise partnership are developing a bid for Norfolk and Suffolk, focused on heritage, culture, sustainability, skills and accessibility. Digital is also an important part of that bid, through skills for small and medium-sized enterprises and access to full fibre. I would be grateful if the Minister could ensure that the tourism recovery strategy that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport mentioned will kick off that process. While some delay has been understandable, it is now important to get on with this initiative.

The Budget also shows the Government’s commitment to growth across the country. I am pleased that King’s Lynn and west Norfolk is in the priority group for the new levelling-up fund. After a very disappointing result in the Future High Streets bid, I know that Ministers will look closely at our town investment plan, which includes projects to maximise our historic riverfront and town centre, the creative hub and guildhall complex at the oldest working theatre in England, with strong Shakespeare links, the innovation incubator community hub and the sustainably connected town centre.

It is business investment that will help drive the recovery, so the super deduction is very welcome, but I urge the Treasury to look at the concerns of the National Farmers Union that many firms will not be able to benefit from investment in new farm technology. Measures to encourage apprentices and trainees are the right priorities, and, like businesses, I look forward to the interim business rates review. It is important that the timetable for creating a level playing field for our high streets does not slip.

In the face of an unprecedented pandemic, unprecedented economic support has been provided. The Budget was honest about the challenges, but it makes the right call to continue short-term support while setting out a path to fix the finances. While corporation taxes are unwelcome, they are necessary because as Conservatives we know, from clearing up the mess left by Labour Governments, that you cannot keep spending without one day having to settle the bill. I back the Budget to support the recovery as well as to lay the foundations for a strong economy.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (Fifth sitting)

James Wild Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 5th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 21st January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Chi Onwurah]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Hollobone, and to see the Bill Committee present. I thank all its members for taking part, and I observe that the room is a lot warmer than it was in December, when the National Security and Investment Bill was in Committee. I hope that we will continue like that. I also thank the Clerks and all the members of House staff who have supported us with the amendments and on the Bill more generally.

I crave your indulgence, Mr Hollobone, to start with a few opening remarks that will be helpful in understanding the Opposition’s approach to this amendment and to the Bill as a whole. To give the context, I worked as an electrical engineer for 20 years before entering Parliament. I am still a chartered engineer and proud of that. As an engineer, I worked all over the world helping to build out the networks—fixed, wireless and mobile—that became the internet and on which this Bill is intimately focused.

I should also declare an interest. Many of the provisions of the Bill deal with the regulator, Ofcom, and I joined Ofcom in 2004, just a few weeks after it was born, when it was to be a light-touch regulator, small and nimble. Over the years, it has acquired responsibility for critical national infrastructure, the BBC, the Post Office, soon the entirety of online harms and now, it would appear, national security as well. I have been calling for greater security, in particular for our mobile networks, for many years now, so I and the Opposition welcome the aims of the Bill, and the Bill itself. However, many areas within it need to be addressed.

As I have declared my personal and professional interest in the telecoms network, Mr Hollobone, you will not be surprised to hear that I am thrilled that we will spend so many hours of our parliamentary democracy time here in this room, dedicated to debating our telecommunications infrastructure. But, to my regret, the Committee is not taking advantage of the very telecoms infrastructure with which it is dealing. I would like to place on the record that we believe holding this Bill Committee physically rather than virtually is putting Members of the House, Clerks and House staff at risk from the coronavirus pandemic, and we feel that it is our duty, as a reasonable and responsible Opposition, to ensure that that risk lasts for as short a time as possible. Therefore, we are going to crack on as quickly as possible through as many clauses as possible, while maintaining appropriate levels of scrutiny. I want to put the Government on notice that we expect as a consequence to have more time on the Floor of the House on Report to consider the Bill, because we do not feel that it would be wise to dwell on many of its important themes when we are meeting physically in one room at a time of national pandemic and lockdown.

To keep all Members and staff as safe as possible, we will have a laser-like focus on three primary areas. The first is national security. Labour prioritises national security, but failings in the Bill show the Government are taking risks with our security-critical national infrastructure and economic security, and we will highlight those failings constructively whenever we can. Secondly, the security of our networks depends on an effective plan to diversify the supply chain, which should include support for UK capability, and we are very concerned that the Bill short-changes both our national security and our telecoms infrastructure by not including more references to the Government’s diversification strategy; it is a weak strategy and we will try to overcome that. Thirdly, the Bill also gives sweeping powers to the Secretary of State and Ofcom, including sweeping powers over security. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) said on Second Reading, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport is not known for its understanding of or expertise on national security, and we want to take measures to address that.

Security is the primary concern of amendment 7, which was tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham. It seeks to add the presence of supply chain components that represent a security threat to the list of security compromises that network and service providers must take security measures against. Supply chain components are defined in amendment 8, for the purposes of amendment 7.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Amendment 7 refers to national security. I note that the Opposition have not tabled a definition of national security, which is an issue we have considered in other debates. Is there a reason why the hon. Lady now accepts that we should not define national security?

[Chi Onwurah]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention, which raises a really important point that I will say something about. As I am sure you are aware, Mr Hollobone, yesterday was the Third Reading of the National Security and Investment Bill. I refer Members to the report by the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, published on Tuesday, on the critical issue of national security and its definition. In fact, the Opposition sought to put into the National Security and Investment Bill not a definition of national security but a minimum standard of what national security should refer to. We wanted to include elements such as critical national infrastructure—of course, telecoms infrastructure is a part of that—and supply chains, which the amendment deals with, and also human rights. I do not want to anticipate what we might table in future, but one reason we have not so far tabled a framework for guidance in national security is that we had hoped that the Minister responsible would recognise both the advice of the Foreign Affairs Committee and the Intelligence and Security Committee in giving greater guidance on what national security was, and that that was a better place for it.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (Third sitting)

James Wild Excerpts

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 19th January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Thank you both very much. James Wild will start the questions, followed by Sara Britcliffe.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Q Clearly, these are new substantial duties on network providers and on you as the regulator to enforce them. What assessment have you made of the resourcing and additional expertise that Ofcom will require to take on these new duties?

[The Chair]

Simon Saunders?

Lindsey Fussell: I think I will lead on that one, if that is all right. Thank you for the question. I will start by clarifying Ofcom’s role in the two parts of the Bill—I am sure we will talk about both. We have a significant role in relation to the telecoms security requirements, where we will have the obligation of monitoring and enforcing operators’ compliance against them. In relation to high-risk vendors, our involvement is rather more limited. The Secretary of State will have the power to direct us to collect factual information from the operators, but the question of monitoring, compliance and enforcement then rests with the Secretary of State. I thought it might be helpful to clarify the two different roles before we got going.

In relation to telecoms security, as you say, these are important new responsibilities. We have existing responsibilities for network security—and have had since 2011, albeit in a more limited way—so we have a network security team in place. We are also very familiar with monitoring clients and enforcement, and with working with precisely the same set of operators that we will hear about on the remit of other responsibilities, so we have a base to start from. That absolutely does not underplay the difficulty, importance and challenge of building up our resources to deal with this. We anticipate that the cost will be around £6 million to £7 million in steady state, and we will build up a team of probably 40 to 50 new people and new resources to cope with those responsibilities.

[The Chair]

Simon, do you have anything to add?

Simon Saunders: On our capabilities relevant to the expectations end of things, we are building on our existing capability, working with mobile operators and network providers on the equipment and the software. That is spread across Ofcom, in the leading networks group that Lindsey leads, the spectrum group, and indeed in our technology group, which I look after. In the relevant teams, we have been adding capabilities in with recent experience, with the mobile operators and mobile networks applying the formal diversification.

[James Wild]

Q You refer to needing 40 to 50 new additional staff. Have you begun recruiting those people yet and how confident are you that you will be able to get them? The security world is a competitive space and these are highly sought skills. How confident are you that you will be able to get those people in place in order to monitor and enforce the powers in the Bill?

Lindsey Fussell: We have indeed already started to build up our team, and have had some success in recruiting people with experience of network security—from the operators, for example. We do not underplay the difficulty of doing that; I completely agree that those are sought-after resources. Frankly, it is unlikely that we will be able to compete on salary. The type of people we attract are those who are interested in looking at these questions from that broader perspective—looking across the industry—rather than in their previous roles in companies.

We have found that we can have some success in that, but we will also have to be creative in the way that we approach this. We are thinking about how we can build up a pipeline, for example. The NCSC has accredited a number of university courses, and we are looking at how we, alongside the NCSC, can pick graduates up from those courses, for example, to build up a future pipeline of staff, as well as bringing in people with more direct experience.

[The Chair]

Simon, do you have anything to add?

Simon Saunders: No, not in that area. It might be relevant to mention, just to make the point that it can be done, that I actually joined Ofcom from a role at Google.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (Fourth sitting)

James Wild Excerpts

Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 19th January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Sara Britcliffe]

Q I have a quick question that I asked the previous witnesses. What is it that you support in this Bill?

Doug Brake: At a very high level, I would say cyber-security generally. The goal of Government intervention should be to make it easy, cheap and desirable for the private sector to do cyber-security well. I have some vague concerns that some increased costs might come from the Bill—the compliance costs—but identifying this as a serious issue that needs to be looked at and giving Ofcom the tools that it needs to investigate security challenges, especially with regard to the equipment and working with the private sector to mitigate those risks, is a big step forward.

On the diversification strategy, I think it is a very wise document. That to my mind is one of the best opportunities that we have to mitigate long-term risks, particularly where there are high-risk vendors in the area. So I think the diversification strategy is quite wise and would make the UK a real leader in this space in terms of policy.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Q What is your view on the implications of the Biden Administration for potential American involvement in the diversification strategy in telecoms more broadly?

Doug Brake: That is a good question. A lot of people are asking that question and trying to figure out exactly where this will go. I think that at a high level we have passed through the confrontation with Huawei and China over some of these innovational mercantilist policies that we have seen, which have undermined the global innovation of wireless equipment. I don’t think that will change at a high level. No politician in Washington in the US wants to be seen as soft on China. I think there will continue to be policies that attempt to roll back some of the innovation mercantilism that we have seen in the wireless equipment space. I expect and hope that it will be done with a more measured and co-ordinated effort with like-minded allies such as the UK and with less scattershot policies across the US Government.

What we have seen over the last several years in the United States is a variety of different agencies doing what they can to mitigate the risks. It is less a co-ordinated whole of Government approach in the US and more a disjointed and fragmented policy response across different agencies, so I am hopeful that under a Biden Administration we will see a much more co-ordinated effort and one that is more co-operative with allies.

[Mr Jones]

Q Regarding that co-operation between nations, clearly it has not just been the UK that has responded to the threat from Huawei; we were forced to go down our present track by the American sanctions against China over semiconductors. Going forward, how do you see that co-operation developing and how do we prevent a situation whereby, with its scale and obviously its resources, the United States dominates any future standards and also technology areas? They might talk about co-operation, which they do in a lot of areas, but when it comes down to brass tacks, it is America first in terms of business. And that is not a Trump comment.

Doug Brake: It is a good question. To start with, I will take the first part of your question, with regard to the export controls that the Administration put in place with the aim of trying to kneecap Huawei; I think it is fair to say that.

First, from our perspective, ours was not a very well-thought-through strategy—right? Without co-ordination and without a broad coalition to address those sorts of trade practices, in effect in the US we really only shot ourselves in the foot. It undermined any of the technology companies or equipment providers that were attempting to sell components and chips to Huawei. So to my mind, if you are not going to succeed in killing Huawei, or if there are ineffective strategies that undermine your own industry, I am hopeful and expectant that we will see a change in the policy going forward.

That said, if there was a desire from a broader coalition internationally to make some more extensive efforts—something like a NATO for trade, to address these unfair practices—that could be a very effective strategy, if it was done with a broader coalition.

In answer to your second question, the long-term goal of diversification of the radio access network supply chain is to allow for a much more diverse and modular system, in which any number of companies can compete within different niche areas of the market. Admittedly, there are some areas of that—high-performance, generic server infrastructure, as well as software—that the US does quite well. However, I think that opening up the supply chain would allow for a number of companies internationally to compete quite strongly.

Also I think there is a question about the extent to which different countries are willing to aggressively pursue an industrial strategy to support the sort of change that could give them a potential comparative advantage in pursuing this sort of transformational change to the telecommunications supply chain.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (First sitting)

James Wild Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 14th January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Q Hopefully my question has a simple yes-or-no answer. The Bill enables the Secretary of State to issue directions to telcos not to use a designated vendor’s equipment. Does that provide the legal certainty that you need—a direction based on national security—to deal with any contractual issues you might have with those suppliers?

Patrick Binchy: I do not think it is quite as simple as yes or no; there are some challenges in how those rules and laws are articulated, and whether that allows us to move away from our commercial obligations. Of course we work with NCSC, and so far, what is in place is fully aligned with the direction taken by the Government and the Bill, so in this case, we believe it is sufficient.

Derek McManus: I refer you to Patrick’s answer. I have nothing specific to add.  It depends on the circumstances. We continue to collaborate, and to speak with the authorities to ensure that we align with current and future needs, from a security point of view.

Andrea Donà: We will abide by the requirements.

[The Chair]

Superb—textbook answers.

Fairs and Showgrounds

James Wild Excerpts

Thursday 17th December 2020 Westminster Hall

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Hollobone, and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) on securing the debate. As a fellow member of the APPG on fairs and showgrounds, I am grateful for the great work that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Sir David Amess) have done on this issue over so many years.

As a new MP, my interest in this subject comes from the King’s Lynn mart, which is the oldest fair in the country. Its traditional Valentine’s Day opening ceremony marks the first event in the travelling showman’s calendar. This year, I was delighted to attend the 816th mart and be part of the procession through the town, before taking part in some competitive dodgem driving and whizzing down the helter-skelter. Despite what is known locally as mart weather, the event was typically popular, with families coming along to enjoy the rides and attractions with great optimism about what was to come. A little more than a month later, however, we entered a national lockdown and everything changed.

I am speaking in this debate to represent, in particular, my constituent Colleen Roper. She is the sixth generation of a fairground family, and I encourage everyone to visit her fairground, Rainbow Park in Hunstanton. Along with five other female showmen, she formed the Future 4 Fairgrounds group. They did so as wives and mothers, proud of their heritage, but increasingly concerned about the impact on the future of their families and that of the 20,000 showmen across the United Kingdom. They want to celebrate their history, to highlight the present situation and to talk about the future for fairgrounds.

In that spirit, I will focus my remarks on three areas. First, as the hon. Member for Glasgow East touched on, there is a need for greater consistency between the national guidance and how local authorities are acting on the ground. The DCMS position is admirably clear, as my hon. Friend the Minister recently set out to me in a written answer:

“Funfairs and fairgrounds…will be permitted to reopen in all three tiers as they were prior to this period”,

the second “period of national restrictions”. The answer also talked about

“how Local Authorities should support event organisers to hold outdoor events safely.”

That is great, so what is the problem? As we heard, the organisers need to get permission from local authorities. Future 4 Fairgrounds told me this morning that it has continued to see cancellations of winter fairgrounds and, even worse, that fairgrounds have been stopped from operating shows that they had been told could go ahead. That has been an issue since 4 July, when covid-secure events were allowed to happen.

Fairgrounds spent considerable amounts of money and effort to be covid-secure, and it has been incredibly frustrating for them not be able to have their events while other events have gone ahead. We should not underestimate either the financial impact of that, or the mental health and wellbeing impact of having all those events cancelled. Will the Minister work with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to provide more encouragement, or perhaps even give direction, to local authorities to tackle that inconsistency, so that funfairs and fairgrounds can safely reopen across the country?

Secondly, fairgrounds are an important part of our rich cultural heritage. This is a profession that dates back hundreds of years. Showmen are businessmen and women, but they are also a community. The King’s Lynn mart was granted its royal charter by Henry VIII, and many fairs across the country have been a staple of their communities for generations. In the 1860s, Frederick Savage of Lynn began supplying steam-powered fairgrounds rides, as is recorded in the Lynn museum—again, I encourage people to visit. In the words of his 1902 “Catalogue for Roundabouts”,

“we have patented and placed upon the market all the principal novelties that have delighted the many thousands of pleasure seekers at home and abroad.”

Fairgrounds are places where memories are made. Despite that, as Future 4 Fairgrounds has highlighted, travelling fairgrounds are not being given equal status with theatres, museums and other organisations in applying to the cultural recovery fund. I would therefore be grateful if the Minister, when he responds to the debate, addressed those concerns and gave an assurance that any future applications will be considered on equal terms.

Finally, this debate is about the future of fairgrounds. They do have a future and they must have a future, but showmen’s lives have been put on hold. For all the families in the showmen’s community, there is a need for greater certainty for the winter events and for next season. Discussions are ongoing about the Lynn mart next year—I encourage my hon. Friend the Minister to join me at that excellent event. I hope that in 2021, once again, across the country, people will be able to enjoy a local fairground.

Football Spectator Attendance: Covid-19

James Wild Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I declare an interest as a Norwich City season ticket holder and a supporter of my local club, King’s Lynn Town FC. This is an important debate. When the national restrictions end on 2 December, we should let fans back into grounds.

Having been one of the 1,000 fans in the crowd at Norwich City’s game against Preston North End—one of the pilot matches—I am confident that that can be done safely. Fans were asked to arrive in good time; there were temperature and ID checks; food and drink areas were closed in the grounds, so hawkers brought stuff to people in their seats; fans were socially distanced and in the fresh air; and exits were staggered at the end. There has been no evidence of transmission from pilot matches. Indeed, the Minister told me in a written answer that the Department was confident that any issues could be mitigated.

We need to let fans back in because the current restrictions are having a major impact on clubs’ finances and threatening their futures. King’s Lynn FC depends on match day income to survive, and while I welcome the funding provided to the national league and thank my hon. Friend the Minister for his work and efforts in securing that, it does not make up for the loss of revenue that club is experiencing. Norwich City’s accounts, published last week, showed it had lost £12 million due to covid, yet the Premier League has only made a derisory offer of £20 million for leagues one and two, with a further £30 million of loans, and no support for championship teams. I share the Government’s view, and that of other hon. Members who have spoken today: the Premier League needs to take a long-term view of the importance of the pyramid, and support championship and league one clubs. Leaving it to the Premier League to sort it out is clearly not working, and if there is not movement, then the Government need to step in and tell it what is expected.

It is the impact on the fans—the 12th player—that is my major concern. Football is not just a game: it is much more than that. Clubs, as we have heard, are at the heart of our communities. They give people a sense of belonging; of being part of a family of fans. Going to matches is a huge part of their lives, and not being allowed in hurts their mental health. This weekend, King’s Lynn beat Port Vale in the first round of the FA cup—a great result, but no fans were there, and watching on a streaming service is no substitute. The Sports Grounds Safety Authority has given King’s Lynn approval to have 1,400 fans in its ground. Norwich has been allowed to have 8,000 fans, rather than the 26,000 that can usually be seen at fortress Carrow Road; it will make it work.

To conclude, Norwich’s joint majority shareholder, Delia Smith, has written an open letter to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister that asks,

“before the final whistle is blown, can we have our football back?”

I say to the Minister:

“Come on, let’s be having you!”

Let fans in.