Ukrainian Refugees

James Gray Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Anne McLaughlin]

I absolutely agree. Many people have never had a passport because they have never had the money to go anywhere where they would require one, or they cannot afford one. As the hon. Member said, lots of people do not know where their passports are; I do not know where mine is, because I am not planning to go anywhere soon. I am not planning to be in the middle of a warzone and to need to know where my passport is.

When appointments are available, the appointment might be in a fortnight’s time. As we heard from the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper), a person might get through everything, jump through all the hoops and pass the test, and then be told to travel 350 miles to pick up their paperwork—it is ridiculous. As the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) told us, they might get to their appointment only to be told to discard their seven-year-old child who is not allowed to come in. I accept that that cannot be Home Office policy, and I saw the Minister frantically messaging to find out what had happened there, but what kind of person would do that? Is that the kind of person we would want in that job? I am absolutely certain that nobody thinks that person is suitable to be in that job. It is chaos: the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) likened it to a game of snakes and ladders, and he is not wrong. If it is confusing for hon. Members and their teams trying to keep up with the advice we can give people, how much more confusing is it for someone in a state of heightened anxiety who does not necessarily speak English? It is almost as if this Government do not want Ukrainians to come here.

Other Members have made important points today. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) said it was a disgrace that, several weeks on, this scheme has still not been properly set up. I share that feeling, but I imagine that neither of us is surprised, because we both have ongoing contact with Afghans who are stuck in Afghanistan, begging us to help all these months on, and we still have no advice for them. As the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) said, there are people ready to help Ukrainians. We are getting emails daily from people who want to help, but do not know how. Obviously, I have not seen the statement in the Chamber, but I have not heard that much clarity is coming forward.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) and others have pointed out, if a person is in a warzone, how are they supposed to apply online? Sometimes the internet is bad enough in Parliament, where we are not in a warzone; how is someone in a warzone supposed to be able to get internet? I could hear the exhaustion in my hon. Friend’s voice as she spoke so movingly about her constituent and his struggle to get his family into fortress Britain. He would still be battling if she had not fought tooth and nail for him, but what about all those who do not have that support?

Why are the experts in the field not being consulted—Refugee Action, or the Refugee Councils of England, Wales or Scotland? Positive Action in Housing is an organisation in Glasgow that has a long-running project through which people can host refugees. I would want to know that anyone generous enough to offer to do so is being properly checked, because the dangers are obvious. Perhaps the Government could speak to groups such as Positive Action in Housing. I would also want to know that every single person taken into someone’s home has the knowledge, the confidence and the means to reach out for help, should it be necessary.

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. There is a Division in the main Chamber. I therefore suspend the sitting for 15 minutes if it is one vote, or 25 minutes if it is two votes, after which we will probably move on to the Labour Front Bench.

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[Anne McLaughlin]

I know that the Minister is going to say that these things all take time. They do, but is he really saying that we cannot not keep up with other comparable European countries? If we are so much more bountiful in our approach to refugees, surely we therefore have more experience and should at least be able to equal the speed of other European countries.

The Minister will also no doubt repeat the trope that we cannot dispense with visas for security reasons, but the Government really need to stop pretending that what we are asking for is anything unusual. Thousands of people enter the UK every day without visas. Anyone coming from South Korea, Australia, Mexico, the US, Costa Rica and many other countries is not required to have a visa. If we are to believe that allowing Ukrainians to do that poses a threat to our safety, the Government must surely believe that the thousands arriving from those countries today, yesterday and tomorrow pose an equal threat to our safety—or are they seriously arguing that Ukrainians are uniquely likely to be infiltrated and pose a threat? As we have heard, a security expert whom the Government previously trusted does not share their apparent fears. I will repeat the question posed to the Minister by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West: what was wrong about what Lord Ricketts had to say? Remember that the two Russians who caused such turmoil in Salisbury did not sneak in by pretending to be another nationality. They came in on visas, so a visa alone is not a safeguard.

I congratulate the petitioner, Phillip Jolliffe, on the efforts he went to in order to get so many people to sign the petition—some 184,949 people have signed it. I will end by saying what I think is the most alarming part of the way we are treating Ukrainian refugees: as confusing, chaotic and cold as their treatment has been so far, we are treating Ukrainian refugees better than we treat refugees fleeing other countries, and we are treating them a million times better than we will treat anyone, including other Ukrainians, who dares to ask for our protection once the Nationality and Borders Bill is enacted. If people are ashamed right now—I suspect that those who signed the petition are—they should prepare themselves to feel a whole new level of shame once that comes in.

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

I call Neil Kinnock. I beg your pardon; I mean Stephen Kinnock. I am so sorry.

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[Joanna Cherry]

On Edinburgh—

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order.

[Kevin Foster]

I will take an intervention in a moment. The only dispersal area in Scotland is Glasgow—I am certainly happy to confirm that to the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry). However, we have taken on board representations from local government, and we are engaging with local councils about how we alter the funding system. Still, it is a fair point that there are plenty of communities across the country that have made huge efforts to support the current dispersal system and there are others that have refused. With that, I give way to the Member for Edinburgh.

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[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for the Afghan scheme. We in Northern Ireland have been very active in responding to that. In my neighbouring constituency of North Down, which has become the central point for bringing people from Afghanistan, people have been in the Marine Court hotel for seven months. We are very keen and anxious to get them into the jobs and accommodation that we have spoken about in the past. Can the Minister give us an update on when he hopes to see those people filtering out into the constituency?

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

With regard to Ukraine, Minister.

[Kevin Foster]

In terms of Ukraine, we hope to set things forward very quickly. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities in the House earlier.

I am conscious of the time and that votes are due again. Given the petition’s call, I want to be clear that, as stated by the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary, we do not believe that a blanket visa waiver is the right way forward—a position that appears to have been endorsed by the Opposition, given their call for visas rather than waivers, with biometric checks included. Normally, security and biometric checks are a fundamental part of our visa process, in order to keep people in this country safe and ensure that we can identify those entering our country. That is consistent with our approach to the evacuation of Afghanistan.

Although it is easy to dismiss, it is vital to keep British citizens safe and to ensure that we are helping those in genuine need. Sadly, we are already seeing people presenting false documents, claiming to be Ukrainian and seeking to enter the UK, including some whom Border Force has subsequently identified as being of other nationalities and having no links to Ukraine. This should not detract from our work creating safe and legal routes for Ukrainian nationals to come to the UK.

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[Rachael Maskell]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Could he say how long it will take for a family with no family connection in the UK coming through the Homes for Ukraine scheme to be placed with a family here? [Interruption.]

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. There is a Division in the main Chamber, and I therefore suspend the sitting for 15 minutes. We will recommence at 7.22 pm.

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On resuming—

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

The Minister was on his feet when we were interrupted.

[Kevin Foster]

Thank you, Mr Gray. I have not forgotten the intervention, and I have had an unusually long time to think about it. In terms of the timescale, from today individuals and organisations can register their interest in becoming sponsors. Applications will be open for individual sponsors and named beneficiaries from Friday. We aim to expedite decisions quickly. Again, some of that will slightly depend on how many we have come forward. But we are certainly keen that, very quickly after Friday, the first people will be able to arrive under the sponsorship scheme. As we say, there will be safeguarding checks—there will be checks on the individuals—but the approach will be around ensuring that we can expedite decision making as much as possible. I would reassure Members that we will be working with the devolved Administrations and others where appropriate on the type of checks—again, where possible, with a view to the speed. I would also make the point that there is no limit on the sponsorship scheme; there is no set amount—we could think of other schemes where we have set a particular ceiling or quota, but there is no limit, except in terms of the offers that come forward.

Making the scheme a success will require the whole of society to come forward and show our heartfelt concern and solidarity, as we did as a society 80 years ago, when many communities across this nation welcomed evacuees from the industrial cities and the potential landing grounds for an armed invasion of this country. Many formed lifelong friendships afterwards. This country has a history of being generous, and the scheme will facilitate that.

We do want the wider diaspora in the UK. I also take on board the point that people have made: ultimately, the goal is not to evacuate Ukrainians from Ukraine, to serve Vladimir Putin’s purpose but, in the long run, to ensure that people who have had sanctuary here and in other European countries can return to a free and democratic Ukraine, with the invaders driven from their country. That is our ultimate goal, but we will ensure that people are able to come and take advantage of the generous offers that people are making.

We are in unique times. We have brought forward two major schemes at rapid speed. We recognise that colleagues want us to go faster, and we will. As I am speaking, more visas are being granted and, from tomorrow, permissions to travel via the new simplified procedure will be introduced.

We believe that this is a country that wants to stand beside the people of Ukraine and to demonstrate solidarity by making offers to provide housing into which we can welcome them. We can all contrast this generosity, this solidarity, with the vicious campaign that Russia has unleashed on innocent civilians, bombing maternity hospital and shelling residential areas—a type of barbarity that we hoped we had seen the end of in Europe 80 years ago, and which our grandparents fought to end at that time, making such sacrifices.

We think of the sacrifice that the Soviet people made to defeat Adolf Hitler. Over 20 million Soviet citizens lost their lives in that conflict. To see what is being done in the name of the Russian people by their own Government is absolutely tragic, but the hope that we can take from 80 years ago is that despots and dictators who thought that they could conquer Europe soon found themselves in the annals of history, having been defeated by free and democratic peoples who united to defeat them. That is what we are doing against Putin’s Russia, and soon that will be the victory that is secured by the Ukrainian people.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the Minister for his response, because it feels as if we are finally getting on the same page, both across the House, and in terms of where the British public are when it comes to the response that we want to see from us a country, which we rely on the Government to deliver—[Interruption.]

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. There is a Division in the main Chamber. Rather than come back after voting, may I put the Question? Would that be agreeable? I am very sorry; I hope the hon. Lady does not mind.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered e-petition 609530, relating to arrangements for Ukrainian refugees to enter the UK.