Ukrainian Refugees

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) for introducing the debate. She always does these things with the detail and information that helps to set the scene so well. It is probably fairly easy to set the scene, because our minds are full of it each day as we watch TV in the morning and at night. Each and every one of us is eternally frustrated by where we are.

The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) made a straightforward request and I absolutely agree with her. When I see the suffering, pain, chaos and need, I say to myself, “Get them here.” Let us get them here and process them. I say that with great respect to the Minister. I am not being critical—I know that he wants to help—but I feel so frustrated with a system that seems to be bogged down.

There are 185,000 people who signed the petition; there are other petitions as well. The large volume of emails urging our Government to take action is reflected in the number of letters in my mailbag, and everyone else’s mailbag here. The hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) gave examples—nothing illustrates this better than examples. We were not in the main Chamber to hear about the homes for Ukrainians scheme because we were here, but the Minister has informed us of what happened. I am thankful that the Home Office has decided to heed the calls for an easier form of visa, and to allow Ukrainians to provide biometrics details when they get here. I think that is what the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw wants—and it is certainly what I want. We should widen that scheme; if we can do it for those people, we can do it for more.

The homes for Ukrainians scheme is exactly what we need. It allows individuals, charities, community groups and businesses across this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to offer a room or a home, rent-free, to Ukrainians escaping the war, regardless of whether they have ties to the country. That enables a link to be established with many people who would like to offer a home but do not know how to go about doing it. One lady, who I know very well, rang my office this morning; her generosity is reflected in her daily life. She has a four-bed house in Newtownards on the North Road that is available. She wants to offer that house to a family. That is replicated elsewhere; each and every one of us will have lots of examples. A company has offered two properties in the Westlands in Newtownards; other people have offered rooms to sponsor families. I see lots of good happening right now. I have said to the Minister that if all those people are offering all those things, we should be doing our darnedest to make sure that we get the refugees here and housed as soon as possible.

One of my constituents is married to a Ukrainian. He came to see me on Saturday morning. His stepdaughter has a two-year visitor visa, which means that she can come here because the paperwork is there for her. She told Gary that when she went to Warsaw to get a plane home with the paperwork she had, which was okay, there were dozens of Ukrainians at Warsaw airport; they wanted to get here, but they did not have the paperwork. I see those people as being in a dire situation; they are a priority case and they need to move right away.

The scheme that has been announced will give £350 per week to families who can help, house and assist Ukrainian families. I understand that £10,000 will be offered for each citizen, to ensure that they can get healthcare, jobs and education. The system on the UK mainland is very different from what we have in Northern Ireland, where councils do not have a direct responsibility for education or health. How can councils in Northern Ireland access that money? It is simply and directly accessed on the mainland, but for us in Northern Ireland, the process will be slightly different. I want to make sure that we are all over the process and how to make that happen.

There is a Christian charity in Newtownards called Faith in Action that has been doing great work in Ukraine for 21 years. They have Ukrainians who are ready to come here. I hope that the scheme that the Government have announced—and that the Minister will be all over—will enable those people to come right now to the accommodation that Faith in Action has for them. There are some 100 family groups who can bring in individuals and families. Last Friday, I visited Willowbrook Foods in Newtownards, which is offering 100 jobs to people—there are 100 vacancies in the company, by the way.

We can get people into Newtownards; we can get them into accommodation, and get them the jobs that they want. All these things are waiting for this scheme to be put in place. I want to make sure that that happens. The local charity shop, Elim Relief Association, has offered to furnish and supply clothing. People’s generosity is incredible. Another of my constituents, John McNaught, is going to run a charity event that he holds every year. He goes around Northern Ireland collecting donations for charity, whether it be physical goods or money. He will be setting off at 10 o’clock next Monday.

Local churches have indicated their willingness to provide lunches and dinners in their halls until refugees are settled or the meals are no longer needed. A multitude of people in Strangford want to help—I have the most wonderful people in my constituency, as do others who have spoken about their constituencies. People are waiting anxiously to help.

I know that this generosity will be replicated throughout Northern Ireland. Indeed, employers who are having difficulty hiring staff—other companies have contacted me, as well—are saying that they can give employment to those able to work, so that they can provide. All the parts of the puzzle are there. We need to connect the dots and put in place the support system that is needed to get these people to safety, until it is safe to return to their homeland and start rebuilding, as they very much hope to be able to.

I am so thankful to the Home Office for allowing us to show our British hospitality and mentality of mucking in. I look forward to understanding the full and finer details of the Ukrainian scheme that the Government have announced, so that people in my community can do what they have been asking to do every day since the invasion: be of help to these poor people.

A charity called Hope for Youth has been on our news back home—I suspect it may be on the main news, as well—for organising 25 container loads of all sorts of necessary goods, such as medicines, clothing and food. Montgomery Transport is paying for lorries to Poland, where lorries from Ukraine will meet them, and take the goods across the border. Groups of individuals are making a magnificent effort. However, we need our Government to simplify the position and the scheme, so that we can move forward.

I am thankful to those who have donated goods and hygiene packs, those who have travelled in containers to provide goods and food to refugees on the border, and those brave souls who take food in their cars to Ukraine, to the thousands of people trapped in towns and cities with no food or medicine. We need to do more to secure routes to get essential food and medicine into all areas of Ukraine. Faith in Action works in south-east Ukraine, in the Donetsk region. It is under incredible attack from Russia at the moment.

Again, I urge the Minister to make the process streamlined and easy, so that those with homes can connect with the families who need them. I am a simple person; I like things to be nice and simple, so that I can tell people just how simple they are. I ask the Minister to issue step-by-step guidance to each Member of this House; I am sure many other Members are in the same position, and have constituents who want to help but do not know what the process really is. I say that with great respect. We just want to understand better so that we can help.

To conclude, we need to make the path clear and straightforward and, above all, get these women and children to safety. The priority is to get them here, where people are willing to help. The need is now. I prayed for Ukraine in the days leading up to the inevitable invasion by Russia, as did many others present. The hon. Member for Lewisham East (Janet Daby) referred to the Bible; as the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) said, it is so important that we Christians come together. However, lots of other religious groups want to help just as much.

A combination of religious groups and family members are coming together in this great nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Along with prayers, we need to give practical help. I urge the Minister to make the way simpler at a time when only one thing really matters: the safety of those little lives and the vulnerable people who need our help right now.

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[Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Gray. Today’s debate was opened by the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell). Her speech demonstrated that she not only is knowledgeable about what is happening in this crisis, but cares deeply. In fact, I not only heard, but felt, that everyone who has spoken today cares. I would not say that it is not often that we feel that here, but I have never felt it to the extent that I have today. Everybody cares, and we must get something done as soon as possible.

The fault for what is happening to the people in Ukraine lies solely with Vladimir Putin and the Russian regime—not with the Russian people, any of us, any of the Governments that make up the UK or Europe, and certainly not with the people of Ukraine—the blame lies, fairly and squarely, with Vladimir Putin and his regime. It is important to acknowledge that. However, the fact that we did not cause the situation is irrelevant when it comes to offering our support.

Along with my friend and colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald), I have been heavily involved in scrutinising the Nationality and Borders Bill, so when Russia so cruelly invaded and started bombing Ukraine, and Government Ministers started to remind us of Britain’s benevolent history, I worried a lot. I worried because I know that when the refugee sector named it the anti-refugee Bill, it was no exaggeration but an accurate description. I worried because a Government does not bring forward a Bill like that if they have any desire to protect people fleeing war, violence and terror. The Nationality and Borders Bill is clearly trying to send a signal that benevolent Britain is no more: “Don’t come here, because you will not be welcome.”

Of course, I know that the Bill has not yet been enacted; today, it reaches Report stage in the Lords. While I knew that those Ukrainians fleeing now, before that legislation is enacted, would be subject to the existing laws and rules, I was also very aware of how dreadful the current system is, and acutely aware of the attitude from this Government towards people in desperate need. That is why I was worried.

However, I hoped that the suddenness, the intensity, the urgency and, yes, sadly, the fact that they were European—which apparently makes a difference, although it should not—would kick-start the Government into action. I hoped that they would treat it as an emergency—a humanitarian catastrophe, where we simply had to help first and sort out the details later. That is what other countries have done, including Poland, Germany, France, and Italy. As per usual, they have taken far more people, proportionately, than we have or ever will—of that I am sure.

The Government keep telling whoever will listen that the UK takes in more people than other EU country, but that is not true. Last week at Prime Minister’s Questions, the Prime Minister said that the UK had done more to resettle vulnerable people than any other European country since 2015. However, it is not true.

When looking at the numbers per head of population, which is the only fair way to do it, for every 100,000 people, Sweden takes in 1,619; Germany takes in 1,274; Austria takes in 1,134; and Switzerland takes in 955. Does the Minister want me to tell him—I do not know if he knows this—how many we take in? For every 100,000 people, we take in 121. That makes the UK 17th—sometimes 18th—in the rankings in Europe. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East said, that is shocking. No European country can top the global list, because it is the developing countries—those most in need themselves—that take in the most people. Yes, that is right: those with the least are giving the most. More than 80% of the world’s displaced people are living in developing countries.

As we have heard, the Government have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into providing the level of support now being offered to Ukrainians, which still does not match other comparable countries or poorer countries. One day, the Government will offer refuge only to those who have a family connection, and that can only be a very narrow definition of “family”. The next day, they change it so that other family members can come over, but they still need a visa and a passport; then some of them do not need a visa, but others do; and those who do not have a passport still have to apply from Ukraine or wherever they have fled to, but there are no appointments.

[Jim Shannon]

It is always very easy to ask, “Have you got a passport?” but when the bombs are falling and the bullets are flying, there are buildings falling and people are in fear for their lives, the last thing they go for is their passport or their identification: they get out and they move. Many people do not have that passport or identification, not because they do not have it, but because they do not have it with them: it is lying in their wrecked house, back where they came from.

[Anne McLaughlin]

I absolutely agree. Many people have never had a passport because they have never had the money to go anywhere where they would require one, or they cannot afford one. As the hon. Member said, lots of people do not know where their passports are; I do not know where mine is, because I am not planning to go anywhere soon. I am not planning to be in the middle of a warzone and to need to know where my passport is.

When appointments are available, the appointment might be in a fortnight’s time. As we heard from the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper), a person might get through everything, jump through all the hoops and pass the test, and then be told to travel 350 miles to pick up their paperwork—it is ridiculous. As the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) told us, they might get to their appointment only to be told to discard their seven-year-old child who is not allowed to come in. I accept that that cannot be Home Office policy, and I saw the Minister frantically messaging to find out what had happened there, but what kind of person would do that? Is that the kind of person we would want in that job? I am absolutely certain that nobody thinks that person is suitable to be in that job. It is chaos: the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) likened it to a game of snakes and ladders, and he is not wrong. If it is confusing for hon. Members and their teams trying to keep up with the advice we can give people, how much more confusing is it for someone in a state of heightened anxiety who does not necessarily speak English? It is almost as if this Government do not want Ukrainians to come here.

Other Members have made important points today. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) said it was a disgrace that, several weeks on, this scheme has still not been properly set up. I share that feeling, but I imagine that neither of us is surprised, because we both have ongoing contact with Afghans who are stuck in Afghanistan, begging us to help all these months on, and we still have no advice for them. As the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) said, there are people ready to help Ukrainians. We are getting emails daily from people who want to help, but do not know how. Obviously, I have not seen the statement in the Chamber, but I have not heard that much clarity is coming forward.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) and others have pointed out, if a person is in a warzone, how are they supposed to apply online? Sometimes the internet is bad enough in Parliament, where we are not in a warzone; how is someone in a warzone supposed to be able to get internet? I could hear the exhaustion in my hon. Friend’s voice as she spoke so movingly about her constituent and his struggle to get his family into fortress Britain. He would still be battling if she had not fought tooth and nail for him, but what about all those who do not have that support?

Why are the experts in the field not being consulted—Refugee Action, or the Refugee Councils of England, Wales or Scotland? Positive Action in Housing is an organisation in Glasgow that has a long-running project through which people can host refugees. I would want to know that anyone generous enough to offer to do so is being properly checked, because the dangers are obvious. Perhaps the Government could speak to groups such as Positive Action in Housing. I would also want to know that every single person taken into someone’s home has the knowledge, the confidence and the means to reach out for help, should it be necessary.

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[Kevin Foster]

There is a slightly different position for those who are already in the UK. The hon. Gentleman made a point earlier about people who are fearful of being asked to leave, and I reassure him that there is no prospect of removals to Ukraine. I will not, and clearly cannot, put a timeframe on that, but at this moment, any removals action has been suspended. That includes our voluntary returns; again, that would clearly be quite a bizarre thing to encourage at the moment. There is no prospect of someone from Ukraine who is ordinarily resident in Ukraine—there is a slight difference from Ukrainian nationals—being asked to return. We have already automatically extended a number of visas for those who are already here with temporary status as a skilled worker or student. There is no need, at this stage, for them to apply for anything. Of course, if someone’s status is due to expire, they can certainly get in contact.

There is no intention that people will need to leave this country, and even if that were the case, there is in reality no practical returns route anyway. To be very clear, Ukrainian nationals who are here lawfully do not need to leave, and we will make further announcements and confirmations over the next few weeks about the position looking forward. I think most of us would accept that the priority at this stage needs to be those who are in Ukraine and looking to make preparations in case they need to leave. We are particularly aware that there are large numbers of people in western Ukraine who, depending on what happens in the coming weeks with the military campaign, may move into Poland, Slovakia or Hungary if Russian forces come closer. Of course, we hope that that does not happen; we see the defence of Kyiv being mounted, and I think we can be confident that Ukraine is halting what was a Russian advance in that direction.

As I say, people here in the UK do not need to apply for different statuses, and later this year we will confirm the position on future entitlement to settlement and in other areas. However, I think we would all accept that at the moment there are very few Ukrainians arriving who are particularly focused on a potential indefinite leave to remain application in 2027.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for his constructive and positive response. I asked about the £350 per month and the £10,000—the different systems—and he has referred to that in his response. I am happy if he wants to write to me to let me know how the system will work. I gave the example that, in my constituency, we have 100 families who are willing to give accommodation, and we have 100 job vacancies available in one company, right now. Time is of the essence. How can we make that happen?

[Kevin Foster]

I thank the hon. Member for his constructive comments. A lot of that will be around the sponsorship route. My understanding is that the £350 will be given to the sponsor—the person providing accommodation. I take on board his point about the payment that will go to local authorities; it is a very different context in Northern Ireland, given the slightly different responsibilities around things such as children’s services, as we recognised in the NTS. It is probably better that I set out in writing the detail of how that will break down.

Another query was about those who have already applied for a visa who get a grant letter but do not have the vignette put in their documents or their passport, which is normally when there is a request to go back to the VAC. As of tomorrow, if someone has the grant letter, that will be enough to travel to the UK with a carrier, in the same way as the permission to travel letter system that we will establish and open from tomorrow. Again, we are looking to minimise the number of people who have to make appointments at VACs and go and collect particular forms of documentation.

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[Kevin Foster]

I will come to colleagues, but I will deal with the hon. Lady’s intervention first. We are still helping people get out of Afghanistan. I hope she appreciates why it would not be sensible for me to go into some of the routes and methods that they use to exit Afghanistan at this time, but we have certainly made strong progress. There is a challenge now, and my colleague Minister Harrington will be looking at how we can move people on from hotels. As I say, one of the points that we have learned from the scheme is about trying to pair up the accommodation and give more people an opportunity to take part. However, our cohort from Afghanistan is slightly more difficult, given that we brought out mostly larger families. In the case of Ukraine, it is mostly single women with children, given that men between 18 and 60 are required by Ukrainian law to stay and fight.

I will give way to the hon. Member for Strangford and then I will make some progress.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for the Afghan scheme. We in Northern Ireland have been very active in responding to that. In my neighbouring constituency of North Down, which has become the central point for bringing people from Afghanistan, people have been in the Marine Court hotel for seven months. We are very keen and anxious to get them into the jobs and accommodation that we have spoken about in the past. Can the Minister give us an update on when he hopes to see those people filtering out into the constituency?

[James Gray (in the Chair)]

With regard to Ukraine, Minister.