Scottish Referendum (Trident)

Iain McKenzie Excerpts

Thursday 7th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Davidson]

Indeed. That is a very valuable point. At the moment, 6,700 jobs are based at Faslane and Coulport. Under the existing United Kingdom Government proposals, which I understand are supported by all parties, that number would rise to 8,200 in the fairly near future. We have the opportunity to balance 50 years of security of employment and job growth with the United Kingdom on one hand and the great unknown of separation on the other.

[Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend share my concern about the devastating impact that the loss of those jobs would have on the communities from which employees come, such as Helensburgh, Clydebank and Inverclyde?

[Mr Davidson]

Indeed. Some 6,700 jobs would be lost. To be fair, many are naval jobs in uniform. Presumably many of those people would be relocated elsewhere, and therefore would not be directly made redundant, but the other jobs would obviously be lost if Faslane and Coulport were closed, as would all the support jobs in the community. It has been estimated that up to 11,000 jobs could be lost. The information that I have seen makes that figure higher; it suggests a multiplier of roughly 2.5 plus the additional jobs, or potentially about 19,000 jobs lost in the Faslane and Coulport area, which will clearly have a horrendous impact. It has not been made obvious what would replace those jobs or what alternative naval facilities would be provided there.

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[Mr Weir]

Not at the moment.

It is my firm hope that we can see these dreadful weapons put beyond use as soon as possible after we achieve our independence. The report goes into some detail on possible scenarios, and it is very heartening to hear that the weapons could be disabled within days. The report’s title asks whether we can terminate Trident within days or decades, and, in direct answer to the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash), I do not know whether we can realistically do it within days, but I am certain it will not take decades.

After Scotland votes yes, there will be 18 months in which we negotiate those matters that need to be agreed between the two Governments. Trident will be high on that list. I hope that, by the end of that period, we will be well on the way to seeing those weapons gone from our shores for ever.

[Mr McKenzie]

The hon. Gentleman makes it clear that the SNP’s position is to rid Scotland of nuclear weapons. How does that square with the SNP’s desire to creep back under the nuclear umbrella and gain security through joining NATO?

[Mr Weir]

Twenty-five of the 28 member states in NATO do not have nuclear weapons. The hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) asked whether NATO would let Scotland in if we wanted rid of nuclear weapons; I remind her that Canada, a member of NATO, got rid of its nuclear weapons in 1984 and Greece, another member of NATO, got rid of them in 2001. It is not unprecedented. Norway does not have nuclear weapons, for example.

Much of the rest of the report goes into detail about the options open to the UK Government in finding an alternative to Faslane. Frankly, that does not appear to me to be the concern of the Scottish people or Government. It is a matter for the UK Government, should they wish to continue with the possession of nuclear weapons. Scottish independence gives the remainder of the UK the perfect opportunity to accept that it can no longer justify the possession of such weapons and to decide that it will no longer have them, but that is a decision for it to make. It is worth noting that even some military figures have begun to question the wisdom of retaining Trident in the UK, given the huge cuts to conventional forces.

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[Pete Wishart]

I have given way to the hon. Gentleman twice already.

A yes vote would get rid of a weapon of mass destruction, and we are not allowed to keep it anyway. If we were to become a new nation after independence, as the no campaigners claim we would, we would not be able to keep nuclear weapons under the non-proliferation treaty. New nations are not allowed to host nuclear weapons, so it would be illegal under international law for us to have them. We would have to get rid of them and it would be up to the UK how to deal with that.

Scotland wants rid of nuclear weapons. As my hon. Friend the Member for Angus put it, even Scotland’s Westminster MPs want rid of Trident. Not long ago, in 2007, 33 voted against Trident and 22 voted for it. They are in good company, because the majority of people in Scotland want rid of it, as do the Churches and the trade unions. Every part of civic society supports the notion that we must get rid of that weapon of mass destruction. That is why I say that Trident will be an iconic issue in the referendum—because so many people in Scotland oppose it.

[Mr McKenzie]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

I cannot give way, because more hon. Members want to speak.

Trident is a system for the Brezhnevs of the world, not the bin Ladens. It is for another age, and people understand that. Yet the Government will spend up to £100 billion on renewing it. Can we believe that? In a triple-dip recession—a time of austerity, the bedroom tax and hard living for most of our constituents—they are prepared to spend £100 billion on the renewal of Trident. That is an appalling decision for any Government. Scotland’s share of the upkeep alone is £163 million, and there is so much more that we could do with that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Angus said. Faslane will have a fantastic future as a conventional naval base. As an independent country we will be able to respond to our own defence needs.