Budget Resolutions

Harriett Baldwin Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Before I begin, I must—as well as drawing the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests—draw its attention to the fact that I have a family member who works for Allied Irish Bank.

I have been looking forward to today. I feel honoured to have been chosen by this House, on a cross-party basis, to chair the Treasury Committee, and to be the first Labour Treasury Committee Chair to welcome the Budget of a Labour Government and our first female Labour Chancellor. I thought that, after a 14-year wait, this would be an exciting moment; and in a moment of sentimentality, realising that for the second time today I would be following the right hon. Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak), I was going to reflect on an interesting constitutional position. When I was in my former role as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, there was common ground at times with the Prime Minister of the day. In private, when I had cause to meet the right hon. Gentleman, he was courteous, thoughtful and respectful, had the national interest at heart, and, when it came to constitutional matters, was in very much the same place as me. I was therefore very disappointed today by the cheek of the right hon. Gentleman in standing up and having the chutzpah to talk about fear, foreboding and uncertainty.

It was the 2022 mini-Budget that plunged the country into crisis, put up the mortgage rates of our constituents, and is still leaving people living in great hardship. It was on the right hon. Gentleman’s watch as Chancellor—although he did some things about covid that we would all recognise needed to be done, and we recognised it at the time—that the bounce back loans led to a significant amount of the fraud that resulted from covid. Now my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has stood up, and what has happened? The FTSE is up—and it has gone up by more since I stood up, by 1.6 percentage points, unless anyone can update me—and the OBR has said that this will add growth to the economy.

The right hon. Gentleman also attacked the Chancellor on fiscal rules. Let us be clear: fiscal rules are not a new thing. Since 2011 there have been seven fiscal mandates, five supplementary debt targets, two supplementary borrowing targets, and an investment limit. The rules set in 2011 lasted three years, but in the last three years we have had three different fiscal mandates, two different supplementary debt caps, and one supplementary borrowing target. I think the Chancellor knows that when she is in front of the Treasury Committee we may challenge her and ask her about her fiscal rules, but I have certainty—we all have certainty—that she will be in her post for long enough to stick to the fiscal rules that she has set. They will have a longevity beyond the previous Government. I welcome this Budget, and pay tribute to my right hon. Friend. The UK’s first woman Chancellor stood at that Dispatch Box, and another glass ceiling was shattered. She should be proud; we are proud, and I congratulate her on that achievement.

It is my first Budget as Chair of the Treasury Committee. I have spent 13 years examining public spending in enormous detail, including nine years as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee. Like me, the Chancellor was a scrutineer: she chaired the Business and Trade Committee, and she understands the importance of scrutiny. I am very clear that the Treasury Committee will not give the Chancellor an easy ride, because she is a highly capable woman who can come and explain all her decisions to us. She knows that it is our job to rigorously examine the detail of the Budget next Wednesday, when she will appear in front us. She will be getting a bit of what she dished out as Chair of the Business and Trade Committee. I know that she will expect nothing less than robust challenge—if she were not up to it, she would not be in her post.

I have to say that I am disappointed that so much of this Budget was revealed before today, which is not normal practice. Going forward, I hope that constituents and the MPs representing them will be the first to know about major issues, and that courtesy to this House and the Treasury Committee will be a hallmark of Treasury engagement.

This Budget comes at a very exciting time, but it is a difficult one for the Chancellor. She has made it very clear that she will deliver certainty, and she has inherited one hell of a mess. We have had a tumultuous period: Brexit, the pandemic, the mini-Budget, 14 years of austerity, delayed and failed decisions, particularly on capital spending—we have had three carbon capture and storage projects that have never come to fruition—the saga and cost of stop-and-start on High Speed 2, 700,000 pupils in schools that are not fit for purpose, public services on their knees, and public sector net debt at its highest rate since the second world war.

[Dame Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on her unopposed election as Chair of the wonderful Treasury Committee. Does she share my concern that the individual who has been appointed to the office for value for money was previously on the board of HS2?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

The hon. Lady is a former Chair of the Treasury Committee and I welcome her being a member of it, as she will add great value. As she knows, we will have the opportunity to raise questions with the Chancellor at next week’s hearing. She has now been forewarned that the hon. Lady may ask about this issue. It is important that we recognise good people who provide support in the public sector by watching our public finances, and I always take people on good faith unless I have a reason not to do so. We have an opportunity to explore this issue elsewhere.

As a share of GDP, taxes are higher than at any time since world war two. Before the election, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor was tough on spending commitments, and sometimes there was a bit of moaning in the Tea Room. I do not want to tell tales out of school, but shadow Ministers were dismayed because they could not spend everything that they wanted to spend. As Chair of the Public Accounts Committee at the time, however, I knew what she was talking about and that what was coming was not going to be pretty, so I welcome some of the steps that she has announced today. I have not had a chance to look in the Red Book or at the detail, but the multi-year funding settlements that she has put in place are a great opportunity to give certainty to business and investors in our country. Hopefully, we will finally nail the issue of HS2, which has cost the taxpayer a fortune. We need to get on with that in order to make sure that we are delivering investment for our country.

I look forward to seeing the detail on cladding, but it is a big issue in my constituency, where many people’s lives are on hold as a result. The money for affordable homes is incredibly vital for those living in difficult situations, and the Chancellor is absolutely right to have finally funded the compensation schemes for infected-blood victims and for postmasters and postmistresses. When the state makes an error, the state needs to correct it. It should never be a party political football.

The Chancellor has had to make tough choices, and she has set out her fiscal rules to provide clarity to the markets and a long-term trajectory for investment and growth. We on the Treasury Committee will watch net financial debt closely to see how the benefit is measured, and it is important for taxpayers and the market that we do so. She will be more aware than anyone about the impact on the market if she does not manage debt very carefully. International investors may use the existing debt model, so when she comes in front of the Treasury Committee, I would be interested in talking to her about how she sees this playing out in the international arena.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dame Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi). I do not wear quite as many hats as her, but it was interesting to hear her perspective on the Budget. I have a different perspective.

My issue with the Budget is not the political choices that the Chancellor has chosen to make—clearly she has the mandate to make any changes that she wishes to make—but the fact that it is a Budget of broken promises to the electorate, which is a dreadful thing to do for trust in politicians. I will also highlight the economic choices that I think the Chancellor has got wrong.

The first broken promise is one that the Chancellor made during the election campaign, when she said time and again that she would not “fiddle the figures.” Today, she has clearly broken that promise. She has announced a multi-billion pound change to the UK’s borrowing, and she announced it overseas, not first to Parliament—I know how angry you and Mr Speaker are about that, Madam Deputy Speaker. As we all know, and as the IFS has said, borrowing is not a free lunch; it will mean that there is more debt and more debt interest spending. I have not yet had a chance to question the Office for Budget Responsibility in detail on its numbers, but from an initial look at its charts, the amount of additional borrowing that was announced today by far exceeds anything in the mini-Budget in late 2022. The Treasury Committee will ask the Office for Budget Responsibility about that.

The second broken promise that the Chancellor made during the election campaign was that her plans were fully funded, and that she had no plans to raise taxes, beyond those listed in the manifesto. In fact, colleagues have counted that she and the Prime Minister made that utterance 50 times. I believe that that promise has been soundly broken today, and that a deliberate political choice has been made to announce the biggest unforced tax-raising Budget ever.

[Blair McDougall (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

Unforced?

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

Unforced. During the election campaign, the Chancellor told the British public that taxes were too high. She said that she wanted to bring taxes down. She has roundly broken that promise today, because the Budget increases tax for every household in this country, possibly by up to £10,000 over this Parliament. That is way beyond the £2,000 figure that we warned about during the election campaign—a warning that the Prime Minister said on national television was a lie.

The Chancellor campaigned on a general election strategy that I believe was deliberately designed to mislead the electorate. Her plans, and those of the Deputy Prime Minister, end up giving us German taxes with French labour laws—a recipe for higher unemployment if ever I have seen one. The scale of the tax changes announced today for small businesses that employ more than four people is astonishing. Labour Members should let that sink in.

[Torsten Bell (Swansea West) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman, who so often gave evidence to the Treasury Committee. I recall that I had to press him on the fact that NHS productivity has not yet returned to its pre-pandemic level. He told us on the record that if it did, that would be worth £20 billion in additional NHS output.

The Chancellor promised that she wanted to focus on growth. That is her mission, but I believe that more taxes, more public spending and more borrowing do not lead to growth; if they did, Venezuela would be one of the most prosperous countries on earth. What the Chancellor was planning all along, together with her Cabinet colleagues —who have no experience of working in the wealth-creating, job-creating, tax-paying private sector—is a Budget of the public sector, by the public sector, for the public sector. She cannot blame us, because in her first 25 days as Chancellor she announced £25 billion of additional new spending, whether that was for Great British Energy, a national wealth fund, or inflation-busting backdated union pay rises with no productivity requirements.

I also want to speak up for my farmers in West Worcestershire.

[Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

Does the hon. Gentleman want to stand up for my farmers? My farmers are some of the most productive and hard-working people in this country. They are the ones who put food on our tables, and they are soundly disappointed with today’s Budget. There was no help or certainty for them in the Budget—no help for them through the agricultural property relief that allows them to hand on the family farm to the next generation. Labour Members should know that this Budget will mean that many family farms will be broken up, unable to be handed on to the next generation.

[Nesil Caliskan (Barking) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

As the hon. Lady can see, I am not giving way at the moment.

As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, the only way that we get true, genuine, sustainable growth in this country is through productivity and investment by the private sector.

[Rachel Blake (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

I am not giving way at the moment. I am going to allow more time for others later on.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. The hon. Lady has made it very clear that she is not giving way, so please allow her to continue.

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Anyone who has ever worked in business knows that they need to increase the productivity of their business, and investment in that business is linked to its profitability, profits that will fall as a result of the measures that have been imposed on business today. When we work out the numbers, I think those measures will equate to about 4p on corporation tax. This is a Budget of broken promises that will end up giving the British people less growth. Members do not have to listen to me to hear that: they can listen to the Office for Budget Responsibility, which forecasts a short-term boost to growth but a longer-term reduction in the sustainable growth rate of the British economy thanks to the measures that the Chancellor outlined today.

In the months since the Chancellor took office, we have seen the evidence. We have already seen businesses shutting at double the rate they were a year ago. We are already seeing a plunge in business confidence, and we have heard the former chief economist of the Bank of England say that the socialist narrative we have had since the election has generated

“fear and foreboding and uncertainty”.

This is a Budget of broken promises—a straightforward breach of promises to the British public—and it is a dreadful day for the British economy.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

When we go through Hansard, I am sure we will see that the hon. Member did not mean to accuse another hon. Member of lying—changing that term to “misleading” would have been far more appropriate. No doubt the hon. Member agrees with me.

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[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I referred to the Prime Minister’s words on national television, and I was quoting him directly, but if I have inadvertently misled the House, I apologise.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Thank you so much. That was an absolutely appropriate way to respond.