Exiting the EU: Businesses in Wales

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

Will the Minister take an intervention from me?

[Guto Bebb]

I will of course give way to my Parliamentary Private Secretary—no, had I better not. Certainly, the debate has been interesting, but hon. Members are well aware that Members have responsibilities in different parts of the House and are in different debates that are going on, and it is unworthy of the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) to try to score that political point.

Going back to the success of the Welsh economy, we need to identify the fact that small businesses are a great part of that success story. Small businesses are growing. Indeed, we have seen the figures that show that small businesses’ growth in turnover in Wales has been among the best in the UK during the past year. The best performing part of the entire UK has been small businesses in Cardiff, which have enjoyed 12% growth in turnover, outpacing the situation in London. I pay tribute to all small businesses in Cardiff that have been part of that success story.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Wednesday 13th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I welcome the hon. Lady to her place on the Front Bench. I fully accept the comments made about support for the concept in the Swansea area, and I can confirm that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already met Charles Hendry to discuss the project. It is not my position to prejudge an independent report, but I assure her that the views of the residents and local authorities in south Wales are known to Charles Hendry.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

7. What recent assessment he has made of the contribution of the farming sector to the economy in Wales.

[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

11. What recent assessment he has made of the contribution of the farming sector to the economy in Wales.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The voice of Montgomeryshire must be heard.

[Glyn Davies]

Does the Minister share my concerns and those of the Welsh farming unions about the administration of the single farm payment scheme in Wales, particularly in relation to cross-border issues? Will he agree to meet the farming unions at the Royal Welsh show next week to discuss this serious issue?

[Guto Bebb]

I agree completely with my hon. Friend that any delays in payments to the farming community are problematic. This issue is devolved to the Welsh Government and it is one I have already discussed with farming unions. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be at the Royal Welsh next week, subject to the decisions of the next Prime Minister, and meetings have been arranged with farming unions at that event, which is undoubtedly the premier farming event of the whole United Kingdom.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

You just got the nine minute bar in before I rose to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker, which is probably a good thing. This debate is close to my heart. I have always thought we should have a debate in the Chamber as near as possible to 1 March. I always think of it as a St David’s day debate, and that tends to lead me to take a non-adversarial approach.

I opened the debate last year, as the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) did this year. In preparation, I remember looking back through Hansard to see who had spoken in similar debates. I was rather hoping that my favourite British politician of all time, David Lloyd George—his statue rightly stands outside the door to the Chamber—had opened a similar debate, but he had not. He was a remarkable politician. A left-wing, radical Welsh speaker from Criccieth in north Wales whom nobody had ever heard of until he came here, he effectively led the Conservative party for six years in this place. Only a Welshman could pull off a trick like that, and he did. It was his daughter, Megan Lloyd George, who opened the first St David’s day debate in 1944; this debate does not have a long history. In her speech she focused mainly on two issues: the dire situation of the farming industry, particularly the dairy industry, and the way in which mid-Wales is ignored. Over the last 70 years, not an awful lot has changed. Welsh dairy farming is in seriously dire straits, and mid-Wales continues to be ignored.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Is it not the case that for a short period of time, mid-Wales was given some support by the Development Board for Rural Wales, which did a fantastic job for the locality?

[Glyn Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for offering me the opportunity for some degree of self-congratulation, but I had probably better not take it.

I particularly enjoyed one comment from Megan Lloyd George’s speech, which you may enjoy as well, Madam Deputy Speaker:

“No Englishman”—

I think she meant English women as well, but in those days women were not included as they are today—

“can understand the Welsh. However much he may try, and however sympathetic he may feel, he cannot get inside the skin and bones of a Welshman unless he be born again.”—[Official Report, 17 October 1944; Vol. 403, c. 2237.]

That explains quite a lot.

I am supportive of making St David’s day a national holiday, and I support the efforts of the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams), who is sponsoring a private Member’s Bill under which that decision would be devolved to the National Assembly for Wales. When I was a National Assembly Member, I declared 1 March to be a bank holiday in my office, and the staff were always told that they need not come in to work. If we are not able to agree a bank holiday, I could certainly do the same again.

Media Plurality (Wales)

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

I agree with both my hon. Friend’s points. We should applaud the success of a local television network in the Cardiff area, but that does not address the needs of the whole of Wales—of course, that is not to decry the success of such a service in the Cardiff area. I welcome S4C’s spend in the Welsh context and how that can foster a plurality of providers in production companies and so on. The fact that we have an independent television sector in Wales is in many ways a direct result of the existence of S4C. That plurality of production companies, if not of final destinations for programmes, is something that I welcome very warmly.

I mentioned our over-dependence on television for news in a Welsh context. The figures are stark. In most of the UK, about 45% of people get their main news from television; in Wales, the figure is more than 60%. Strikingly, because commercial radio is much more successful in most of the United Kingdom than in Wales, the figures on the number of people in Wales getting their news from the radio is slightly lower than in the rest of the UK. The overall picture, however, is clear: we have a dependence on the broadcast media that is not replicated in the rest of the United Kingdom. We should be concerned about that.

Even more concerning was a study of the 2007 Welsh Assembly election. No respondents to the survey said they gained their news about the election from London-based newspapers. It is difficult to see how there can be a democratic debate if 90% of the newspapers sold in Wales are London-based and contain no coverage of the election. Some 42% of the news that people received about the 2007 Assembly election came from BBC Wales. Obviously, we should congratulate BBC Wales for getting that reach, but before the BBC gets too proud of itself I should point out that the same survey showed that 55% said that their main source of information about the campaign was the polling card, and 72% said it was political literature—so it could be argued that we beat the BBC’s reach.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

Although S4C and Welsh-language broadcasting covers very Welsh issues, does my hon. Friend agree that it would be wrong to separate that from the British context? Wales is a part of Britain, and if we are going to continue to subsidise the Welsh-language channel—inevitably it will need a degree of subsidy in the future—it would be wrong for the British Government just to say, “That’s a matter for the Welsh Government. They do not need a contribution from the British Government.” It would be a mistake to isolate the Welsh language as an issue to be dealt with only in Wales and say that it has no consequence for Britain; that would extend the trends he is talking about in other forms of media.

[Guto Bebb]

I have come to this debate without all the answers, but with many questions. That question is worthy of consideration.

The S4C viewing figures, which include viewing figures from platforms available in England, show a significant following of S4C programmes from viewers based in England. The Welsh language is one of the ancient languages of the United Kingdom, and therefore it should not be looked at in isolation from things that happen on this side of the border. The viewing figures show that S4C undoubtedly provides a service for people living on the other side of Offa’s dyke. It is the same for Radio Cymru’s radio provision. People who enter competitions in the daytime often live in Wolverhampton and Liverpool, happily listening to Radio Cymru. I accept that this debate should not be a Welsh-only debate, but it is important that it does not ignore Wales completely by becoming London-centric. I am genuinely concerned about that.

The figures show our dependence on broadcast media. There is a concern—again, this is not an anti-BBC point—that our dependence on the broadcast media in a Welsh context becomes a dependence on the BBC. The provision of news in Welsh and English in Wales comes from the BBC. If somebody watches BBC news or S4C’s news, they are watching a BBC product. The same is true of Radio Cymru and Radio Wales.

I was recently talking to my wife about this issue. She said that she seldom watches the nine o’clock news on S4C because she has heard most of the content on “Post Prynhawn” on Radio Cymru at 5 pm. That is a genuine concern. If we think that the viewing figures for “Newyddion Naw” on S4C—about 25,000—are not high enough, we need to ask why. When we acknowledge that people in Wales are dependent on the broadcast media for their news, we also acknowledge that they are dependent on the BBC for that content. I wonder whether the fact that 85% of all news content in Wales is provided by one provider is healthy. That is not to say that the BBC is doing anything wrong, but do we need more plurality? If News International provided 85% of all news content in a Welsh context, I suspect that most Opposition parties would complain. The same should stand in relation to the BBC.

We are slowly starting to have a debate in a Welsh context. The Media Reform Coalition and the Institute of Welsh Affairs are starting to talk about these issues, but we need to move forward at a much faster pace. Frankly, it is not just that the provision of information and news is lacking; our democratic institutions in Wales will be undermined if we do not deal with this issue quickly.

There is no denying that S4C is an important issue for all of us who care about broadcasting in a Welsh context. For those of us who are worried about the future of the Welsh language, it is an even more important issue. Most Government Members were willing to consider the spending reductions in 2010 in the context of the spending review, the real challenges facing the Government and other institutions, and the need for them to live within their means. But we need to ask ourselves a simple question: should the future of S4C be decided solely as an add-on to the charter review process, which is being undertaken in London?

The BBC has a budget of some £3.6 billion, and the grant for S4C and the programmes provided by the BBC comes to about £90 million. In the context of a £3.6 billion budget, it is difficult to argue that the £90 million that goes to S4C will be the tail that wags the dog. My concern is that S4C will be forgotten in the charter renewal process. We need to ask ourselves seriously whether it is enough for S4C to be considered as part of the charter review process, or whether an independent review should be undertaken in relation to S4C to ask a simple question: after 33 years, what exactly is the point of a dedicated Welsh-language broadcaster in the 21st century? I think the answer would be very positive indeed, but we have not asked that question since the channel was established in 1982.

In 2010, when the changes were announced to the funding of S4C, and when the reduction to the funding of the BBC and S4C was announced, the then Minister at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport promised that there would be an independent review into the future of S4C at the same time as the charter review. I think that would be welcomed in Wales—not because S4C is more important than any other broadcast element of the Welsh media picture, but because a review would be a starting point for asking serious questions about what exactly we want from the Welsh media in a Welsh context. I would argue strongly, therefore, that the promise that was part of the 2010 settlement should be delivered. I think there is an appetite in Wales for looking creatively and constructively at how to utilise and fund S4C in the future and at how to protect what is important in delivering a service to the people of Wales.

If an independent review is instigated—one was discussed in 2010, but the details were not as forthcoming as they should have been—it is crucial that it should be freed from the issue of cost and money saving. It is important that there should be a two-year provision of financial stability while the review is undertaken, and I would argue that that provision should come from both the BBC and DCMS. I appreciate that the Minister does not represent DCMS, so will not be able to give me certainty about funding streams from another Department. However, if there is an independent review, it has to take place in the context of a stable financial situation.

UK Media (Welsh Rugby)

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Tuesday 8th July 2014 Westminster Hall

[Glyn Davies]

Thank you, Mr Streeter, for bringing me back to Welsh rugby. There is an important link between Welsh rugby and the Welsh language. The great things about Wales that make it distinctive are, probably above all else, the language and the national game. More people play football, but rugby is linked to the Welsh language and to our culture. I hope that that satisfies your requirements, Mr Streeter.

About 20% of the population of Wales speak Welsh, but the language underpins Welsh identity and cultural distinctiveness. It seems wrong that the Welsh Affairs Committee does not encourage witnesses to speak in Welsh, and I can see no reason why the Welsh Grand Committee should not allow speeches in Welsh. Most people in the world are bilingual or even trilingual, and most Parliaments can accommodate bilingualism. Huge efforts have been made to maintain and restore yr iaith Cymraeg in Wales. Nowhere do we hear the language spoken more than at the great rugby matches that take place in Wales. Major investment in preserving and promoting Welsh continues to be made in Wales, and many Welsh people have a great love for the language and for singing the national anthem at the Millennium stadium. We should, however, create opportunities for Welsh to be used at Westminster, strengthening the link between Wales and the United Kingdom, of which Wales is a key member.

I continue to enjoy reading The Sunday Telegraph; its great writers still make it an absolute must for me to read at the weekend, despite its failure to cover Welsh rugby as I would like it to.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I share his concern about the lack of coverage of some of the rugby matches this summer, but is that a symptom of the London media in general ignoring Wales? Is that not reflected, for example, in the fact that 52% of the people of Wales still believe that the health service is run from Westminster?

[Glyn Davies]

I moved away from the central point of the debate for a small part of my speech, but the issue is a wide-ranging one. My hon. Friend makes that point, and I chose to refer to one specific aspect of the whole issue today—how Welsh rugby was covered two weeks ago—because it makes that point as well. We can reach out across the world only if the national media—the media read outside Britain—cover Wales. That is how the name of Wales will go out into the world, and there is no better vehicle than Welsh rugby.

I look forward to reading reports of the great games that will take place at the Millennium stadium in the rugby world cup in 2015. It will be a great occasion, but I look forward in particular to the great victory of Wales over South Africa in the final.

S4C and Welsh Identity

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Wednesday 7th May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Glyn Davies]

Indeed I do. S4C is particularly important because it is a Welsh language channel, but of course BBC Wales is hugely influential. It is a discrete part of the BBC and is committed to the language. It works closely with S4C, providing programmes, and the relationship is very good. That was not always the case, but it certainly is at the moment.

There is one aspect of the Public Bodies Act 2011 on which I would like a reassurance from the Minister—I am sure he will be happy to give it. Section 31 states that the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport must ensure “sufficient funding” to deliver a Welsh language channel in Wales. That is rather imprecise. However, it is important that it is stated in the Act that the Secretary of State should do that.

My focus today is on the link between S4C and the language, because that is what I think is most important, but to a lot of people, the importance of S4C is about not just the language but the contribution that it makes to the economy. I was involved in economic development for the whole of Wales around the time that S4C was created. There was a blossoming of the creative industries. A huge number of small businesses set up in parts of Wales where there had been depopulation, and to which it was difficult to attract other forms of business. S4C does not produce its own work but commissions it, and a large proportion of those commissions go not to the BBC but to independent companies. Today we have four major companies that produce work for S4C. Those include: Boom Pictures, a successful international company; Tinopolis, a major company that produces “Question Time”; Rondo; and Cwmni Da, a company that has sold programmes to China.

We should not forget, however, that the last thing we want is for S4C to drop into a comfort zone. We need to make certain that it is not just the four established companies with good relationships with S4C that continue to get all the work, and that there is still that blossoming of new, small companies in the more remote parts of Wales where it is still more difficult to develop the economy.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about S4C’s contribution in commissioning work from smaller companies. Remarkably, since the reduction in funding, the variety of companies supplying work for S4C has increased, whereas before the reduction, companies—especially those from the north-west—saw a significant contraction in the number of programmes that they supplied to S4C.

[Glyn Davies]

Indeed. I was not aware of the precise way in which the creative industries had developed in Wales, but it is generally known that over the period leading up to the break in the funding link, there was a real fall-off, with too much concentration on Cardiff-based companies. Members for Cardiff might feel cross about that remark, but the key thing about S4C is that small companies can operate in areas where the language has traditionally been strong. We must not forget that. We do not want to return to complacency—a comfort zone in which we have what we have and S4C does not look to continue to develop new companies that can become the big successes of tomorrow.

Housing Benefit (Wales)

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Thursday 1st May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Glyn Davies]

The hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly fair point, and I do not think that the policy can be freestanding. I wanted to discuss this later, but there must be a responsibility for extra provision, and we must also have policies that deliver that. It seems logical to the people who have raised the issue with me that the problem is that there are not sufficient properties for people to move into.

When my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) spoke earlier, I was struck by the fact that it is important for us all to see how the policy works out in practice in our constituencies, because it is now in practice. I decided to write to the county council—the housing authority in my area—and the local housing association to ask how it had worked out. The senior officer in this policy area at Powys county council came to my office and we spent an hour going through it, and I must pay huge tribute to the council for the way in which it managed a difficult situation. But the reality is that it did manage the system. No one has been evicted and the arrears have not gone up. Nearly all the people affected have access to the discretionary fund.

I think that about 600 tenants in the Montgomeryshire local authority were affected, and about 570 or 580 of them had access to a discretionary grant payment. I must say that when I started asking questions about whether the discretionary payment was enough, I was anticipating having to write to the Minister to say, “It is not enough—we want some more.” However, I found that the local authority was advertising, putting out press releases begging people to put in applications because the money was not going to be spent. The discretionary budget dealt with almost all the issues that mattered in the constituency.

Inevitably, a certain proportion of households—I think about 40 or 50—have moved, and because of the housing availability in the authority, quite a number of them have moved to the private sector. That is another issue. The differentiation between the private sector on one side and Government social housing provision on the other is one that we need to soften a little. We need to see people moving to make the best use of the available housing.

[Guto Bebb]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the difference between the private and social sectors should be reduced. Nevertheless, my experience is that housing associations in the social sector seem to have been more willing to work together as a result of the policy than they were previously. Is that the experience in Powys?

[Glyn Davies]

I think that it is. It might not be the same in all local authorities—I can speak only for my own—but I must say that, on this issue, Powys county council has been brilliant. It knew that things would be difficult for some tenants—it is not an easy situation—but it employed three specialist officers to help everyone affected to deal with their situation by giving them the best advice, and they have done that. I pay continuous tribute to the work that Powys county council has done with a policy that it may well not have agreed with. It has delivered coalition Government policy and done a magnificent job.

--- Later in debate ---

[Glyn Davies]

Again, we have a complete separation, as if the private sector is over here and the public sector is over there. The issue is not the funding of the public sector; we must allow the private sector to deliver the housing we want. The private sector will deliver what we want if we create a situation in which it can. For the past few years, all I have seen is local and national Government making it more difficult for people to deliver what the people of Wales want.

[Guto Bebb]

On that point, it is important to state that the provision of social housing in Wales fell dramatically throughout the early part of the noughties—2000 to 2007—under successive Labour Administrations in the Assembly. The problem is not recent; social housing provision in Wales has been an issue of concern over the past decade.

[Glyn Davies]

I have nothing more to do, Sir Roger, other than to thank you.

Tomlinson Report

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Sir Roger.

I am pleased to have secured this debate on the Tomlinson report prior to the Christmas recess, because it is important and touches on a lot of my work on interest rate swap mis-selling. The report’s scope is wider than just the interest rate swap mis-selling scandal, and it looks at how a certain part of the Royal Bank of Scotland, namely the global restructuring group, has been operating in relation to small businesses. It is important to place on the record that Lawrence Tomlinson’s findings reflect what I have seen both as a constituency MP and in my work on interest rate swap mis-selling.

Prior to the report’s publication, Lawrence Tomlinson spoke to the all-party parliamentary group on interest rate swap mis-selling, and it is fair to say that many Members in that meeting were shocked by what they heard about banks’ behaviour. What should concern us more than the fact that Members were shocked by Mr Tomlinson’s comments is that many of them were not surprised. When some of the report’s findings were highlighted, it was concerning to see that such activity was recognised by Members from their constituency casework. If MPs are not surprised by allegations of behaviour that verges on the criminal, there is cause for significant concern about banks’ behaviour.

Since the publication of the report and its findings, there has been a certain degree of blow-back. Elements of the press have suggested that Mr Tomlinson might have a personal agenda or vendetta against RBS. I therefore want to place on the record that I have never banked or had any banking facilities with RBS, and have no vendetta whatever against it. My concern lies with the numerous constituents who have been treated in a manner that I find unacceptable. It is important to highlight what the report found and how it resonates with those of us who have dealt with businesses that have been badly treated by their banks.

The report was met with a significant degree of sympathy when originally published, but concerns have been highlighted since then. I want to examine three key issues of concern today; other Members may have different issues to discuss. First, I want to concentrate on the report’s findings in relation to whether the bank deliberately attempted to engineer situations in which businesses defaulted or breached their banking covenants. One of the report’s key claims is that businesses often found themselves in difficulties due to the bank’s deliberate efforts to ensure that that happened, including through revaluations. Once banking covenants were breached, businesses were placed in the so-called supporting hands of the global restructuring group.

The second question that deserves consideration is about the nature of the support that businesses receive once subjected to the support structure of the GRG. Is it really trying to get businesses back on track, or—as in many cases that I have seen, and in many cases highlighted by Lawrence Tomlinson—are businesses subject to unfair and penal rates of interest and charges, and often asked to pay for reports and valuations that are almost never in the businesses’ interests?

The third question is about the impartiality of the whole insolvency process. The report asks significant questions about whether the process and all the professionals involved actually operate in an independent manner. I have seen a number of cases of valuations changing dramatically because valuers have been instructed to undertake a second valuation by the bank. That raises significant concerns about the independence of those valuations. Consultants, solicitors and accountants have been asked to undertake work, paid for by the business, on the instruction of the banks. Time and again, that work has been less than helpful to the survival of the business.

When I conclude my remarks, I will touch on the selection of Clifford Chance to conduct an internal review of RBS. I have no doubt that Clifford Chance is a reputable firm of solicitors, but I have concerns about whether it will pass the smell test of being impartial enough to undertake such a review, given its links to RBS.

Have RBS and the global restructuring group been guilty of engineering a default or a breach of covenant? There are examples. A constituent of mine had a quarry with landfill rights that was valued at £9.5 million. The bank decided to enforce a revaluation of the asset, which came back at £2.5 million. As one can imagine, the impact of a £7 million reduction in value was an immediate breach of the banking covenant. After long and hard-fought efforts by the company, there was a final agreed valuation of £4.5 million. The company agreed to that simply because it was desperate and wanted to try to keep trading. How can a £7 million reduction in value occur when the company undertaking the revaluation was the same one that made the original valuation only a few months previously? That question needs to be answered. Also, why did the company have to pay £14,000 for a valuation that it successfully disputed?

I was contacted by a business yesterday with a large portfolio of flats, one of which was valued by the GRG at £100,000. A sale price of £145,000 was achieved yesterday, but the bank is still unwilling to make any compromise on the valuation of the entire portfolio. When one flat is sold for £45,000 in excess of the bank’s valuation, one must question why the whole portfolio is not re-examined from a banking perspective. The business is paying penal rates of interests on the basis that it breached its loan-to-value covenant, yet the one sale that has been achieved shows that the asset’s value was much higher than the value that the bank placed on it.

Another example, of a hotel in north Yorkshire, landed on my desk because the business has also been affected by interest rate swaps. The hotel was independently valued by Matthews & Goodman at £3.4 million, but the bank was clearly unhappy with that valuation, which gave the business a healthy loan-to-value position, so it instructed the business to get a second valuation within two months. The business was charged £3,500 for the privilege, and the second valuation came back at £1.65 million. The result was that the business was in breach of its banking covenants. It is unsurprising that the business feels hard done by: an independent valuation suggested a value of £3.4 million, but less than three months later, another valuation, done on the instructions of the bank but paid for by the business, was less than half that.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene. There is a similar example from my constituency. Does he agree that it is often the time scale in which the bank demands a response that kills a business completely? A business in my constituency was given 24 hours to resolve a position that was not a difficulty. The business was bankrupted and its principal has gone to work in the far east, where they have created many jobs and much good business. That has been taken away from mid-Wales.

[Guto Bebb]

That is a fair point about timing. Another of my constituents was told that his bank charges would be increased to a weekly fee of £4,000. The letter informing him of that arrived on 21 December, just before his business closed for Christmas, which I am sure was enjoyable because of that letter. There was nothing to be done until the new year, because the business was closed. There is an issue there. To go back to the hotel I was talking about, as a result of the lower valuation, the business can show on paper that its bank charges over the following six months were £250,000 higher than they had been in the previous six months.

Welsh Language (Non-devolved Departments)

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Tuesday 20th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

That is the intention of this debate. It is to examine what sort of co-operation is now required and how that can be moved forward. My concern is the extent to which the Welsh Assembly, when it looks at how it can legislate, has concentrated on devolved areas, and possibly the baby was thrown out with the bath water in relation to non-devolved areas.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for allowing me to associate myself with an issue that I have previously raised in the Chamber. We know that we had a pretty close escape with the ballot papers for police and crime commissioners. It is vital that the commitment to bilingualism is as great here in Westminster as it is in Cardiff. That is what my hon. Friend is asking for, and I fully support what he is doing.

[Guto Bebb]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention.

My specific concerns relate to the fact that I represent a constituency where about 40% of the population are first-language Welsh speakers. I would be the first to admit that not enough of those constituents who are first-language Welsh speakers demand services in Welsh, but there have been occasions since I was elected in May 2010 when I have communicated by letter with various Westminster Departments to highlight concerns about the non-provision of services through the medium of Welsh. In response, I again received examples of willingness to co-operate, but it is worrying that a Department stated in a letter quite recently that it is willing to co-operate through its Welsh language scheme and that it will consult the Welsh Language Board on how that relationship may be further developed. I wish that Department good luck, because the Welsh Language Board, as we well know, has been abolished.

Elections (National Assembly for Wales)

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

I am happy for that issue to be clarified by the Minister in due course.

The key thing, in my view, is that there is a debate to be had. There are disagreements within the parties. I believe that some members of the Labour party would be fairly happy with a change. We have heard a lot from the former Secretary of State for Wales, the right hon. Member for Torfaen, about the need for two Members to be elected from a single constituency. That view has been talked about this morning. I find it incredible that the Labour party can talk about political advantage and put forward a plan for two Members for one constituency, which would also be a partisan change.

The other thing that I am surprised by this morning is the fact that the right hon. Gentleman mentioned the fact that there were two options in the Green Paper: the status quo and the change to 30:30. In my reading of the Green Paper the status quo is not an option, because option No. 1 is to keep 40 constituencies but to have them equalised. I have some concern about that proposal: one of my key concerns about any changes to the Welsh Assembly is the need to ensure a buy-in to the concept of the Welsh Assembly in all parts of Wales. I represent a constituency in north Wales, including parts of the north Wales coast, and there is often a feeling that Cardiff does not concern itself, or take as much interest in, the affairs of north Wales as those of south Wales and Cardiff in particular. That may or may not be fair. Some past Assembly proposals have led to that perception. However, it is important to point out that equalisation, for example, would probably result in fewer Members from north Wales and west Wales.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

What about mid-Wales?

[Guto Bebb]

And possibly fewer from mid-Wales as well. That would be a matter of concern to me, but, again, it would not make me oppose a discussion of the issue. It would lead me to contribute to the debate and make my views known.

I welcome the debate. It is important not only to engage parliamentarians in Westminster and Cardiff bay in the debate, but to try also to engage the people of Wales. The issue is not whether the decision can be implemented without the consent of the Welsh Assembly. It would be a mistake to implement any change without its consent. A far more important matter is that no change should be implemented without the consent of the people of Wales. We are talking about the electoral arrangements for the Welsh Assembly. The issue should be debated and discussed, and we should be willing to consider the options; but the decision should rest with them—not for any reasons of party political advantage, but because any change, if change were necessary, would be for the benefit of Welsh democracy and the further development of the Welsh Assembly.

Interest Rate Swap Products

Debate between Guto Bebb and Glyn Davies

Thursday 21st June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

Thank you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will refrain from taking any more interventions and finish my comments.

The figures from Bully-Banks illustrate the fact that businesses feel that they have been mis-sold such products. The final figure from Bully-Banks that is worth mentioning is that 75% of its members claim that the swap product was a condition of the loan agreement that they entered into. Some Members might say that the way forward is therefore for individual businesses to take legal action on that basis, but I have concerns about that. A solicitor said to me yesterday that the problem in England and Wales is that the law is far too bank-friendly. There is a concern that in many cases businesses that take legal action face costly cases before the banks finally settle and put in place a gagging order. It is also a concern that small businesses should be expected to fund their own cases when they are already in crisis

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend take an intervention?

[Guto Bebb]

I will not take another intervention, due to the guidance from Madam Deputy Speaker.

Small businesses that have to take legal action also face the risk of losing the support of their banks. There are examples of loans being called in or overdraft facilities being taken away from businesses that are taking action. I therefore do not think that the way forward is necessarily to expect individual businesses to take action against the banks, unless we can have some certainty that the banks will not act in that way.

The scale of the problem is significantly greater than we have accepted to date. Today the Law Society Gazette gives the figure of about 4,000 businesses affected, with about £1 billion-worth of potential claims. In my view that figure is probably an underestimate, so the scale of the problem should be taken seriously.

Let me state what I am calling for from this debate. It is very easy to have a debate in which we all highlight our concerns about individual businesses and our belief that the banks have behaved badly, but this House has a responsibility to try to offer a solution. We need to encourage the Financial Services Authority to move more quickly to a resolution of this issue. It needs to inform the banks that, for example, they have an obligation and a responsibility to act fairly with their clients. We also need some transparency from the banks about the exact size of the problem. We know, for example, that between 2006 and 2010 the banks engaged in significant amounts of swaps. Some of them might have been completely legitimate, but quite a few were sold to small businesses.

Those small businesses are feeling under pressure from their banks, so my specific request today is for the Minister to call on the FSA to give written assurances that the banks will not adversely treat any business that makes a complaint. We live in a country governed by law. If a business wants to make a complaint, it should not be subject to undue pressure from its bank. In the same way, if a complaint has been made to a bank or the FSA, the bank should refrain from foreclosing on that business. Those are my short-term requests for the Minister. In the long term, I think it is crucial—