Iran

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2026 Commons Chamber

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

The Minister mentions the attacks that Iran is carrying out. Will he join me in recognising that cyber-attacks are one of the consistent threats Iran has posed to the United Kingdom, and that we must ensure in any negotiation with Iran that those attacks are prevented and stopped?

[Mr Bailey]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. As I will go on to say, the things we should be concerned about are not limited to the manifestation of kinetic attacks within the region, but include the things that impact us here at home, such as cyber-attacks.

We have reinforced regional partners’ air defence capabilities in Kuwait, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, as well as embedding aerospace management experts, and deployed HMS Dragon to provide advanced air defence and maritime security capabilities, all of which demonstrates our strong commitment.

Approximately one fifth of the world’s oil supply passes through the strait of Hormuz. When that narrow waterway is transformed into a theatre of conflict, working people across Britain and the world pay the price, both in higher fuel bills and energy bills and in wider costs to the economy.

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[Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Wetherby and Easingwold) (Con)]

It has been a fascinating debate so far this afternoon. There is no doubt about the effects of a lot of what the hon. Member for Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber (Brendan O'Hara) has just said. This debate therefore has to be set into the context of what we are dealing with now. What is going on in Iran is an example of the importance of some of the tough decisions we have to make.

Until November, I am one of the vice-presidents of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. Most of my career in this place has been about dealing with soft power, and that is a soft power body. It has become difficult in recent years to maintain the UK’s reputation among allies, because countries, especially the eastern allies of NATO, are accelerating their spending enormously quickly. They are taking that spending up to serious levels, way beyond what would have been suggested, because they recognise the threat.

The hon. Member for Loughborough (Dr Sandher), who is not in his place, spoke about how we make people recognise the threat. I do not believe that we always can; indeed, history has shown that we cannot. The hon. Member for Harlow (Chris Vince) and I have often had a discussion over a cup of tea about what happened in the 1930s, and the Cabinet that Ramsay MacDonald had to form as Prime Minister. The difficulty of getting people to recognise the threat is why Winston Churchill went through years of being detested, while he tried to warn of the coming dangers. Neville Chamberlain, often described as an appeaser, recognised that this country was nowhere near ready for war in 1937, and was having to push things back. There is also what is often described as the phoney war from September 1939; people were saying, “Why are we doing this?”, right up until the bombs started to fall.

As I said to the hon. Member for Loughborough, people can see things, but they also cannot see things, so how do we get the message across? We hear people say today, “I am not going to fight for my country. Why should I get involved? Why should I defend the Baltic states?” I remind the House that way back in the 1930s, the Oxford Union had a debate on the motion that

“This House would not in any circumstances fight for King and Country”.

That debate took place—let me get my maths right—some 90-odd years ago. How people regard the defence of their country has never changed, and that is where tough decisions come in. It is the responsibility of Governments to do things that are not popular.

I have debated with the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, the hon. Member for Lincoln (Mr Falconer), many times, and I have a great deal of respect for him. I suspect that tucked away in his notes for his winding-up speech there might be a reference to defence spending in the 14 years of Conservative Government, but I think that line does us a disservice. We have to recognise that from roughly 1989 onwards, defence spending was cut and cut. It hovered between around 2.2% and 2.5% of GDP. The Labour party has said that when it left office, defence spending had risen. In blunt terms, that is true, but Labour MPs do not say just how much was coming out of the reserves to fund the wars. A lot of Labour MPs stare at their feet when that is mentioned now.

Defence was cut further under the coalition Government, when Danny Alexander was the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. The Liberal Democrats like to speak about what the Conservatives did to defence spending, but they conveniently overlook who the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was who pushed through those defence cuts. My right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) is, I believe, one of the most experienced men in our party in analysing defence budgets and understanding defence needs. I am sure that when he winds up the debate his words will be worth listening to, as they always are, because he understands, and he understood at the time, that the decisions being made would have a knock-on consequence.

I am trying not to make party political comments today. I am making a speech about the threat that is right in front of our nation’s eyes. It is clear that this general debate on Iran, and the cancellation of all the business previously announced, was arranged not because there is an incoming barrage of missiles and we are going to experience a conflagration, but because the Government did not want to call on the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) to come to the House until six weeks from now. That is obvious, but it does not take away the underlying point that we have to accept in this country.

Let me return to the subject of defence spending. I have been in the Chamber when the procurement Minister, the hon. Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), and the new Secretary of State for Defence have been at the Dispatch Box to talk about how much funding they are giving to defence. They say that they are spending record amounts on it. Well, I am spending record amounts on diesel for my car, but that does not mean that I am investing more; it means that my revenue costs have gone up—and the former Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for Rawmarsh and Conisbrough (John Healey), said that the Treasury was not supplying the money, or the Government were not willing to spend it.

The hon. and gallant Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns), who is no longer in the Chamber, said that there had to be a more hybrid approach to defence, and I think he is right. That does not mean chucking everything else away. I was relieved that the Type 26 and Type 31 programme for the Royal Navy is still in place. However, I am open-minded and, indeed, intrigued: I think there may be a positive outcome to the replacement of the Type 83 with the Type 90s—well, let us just call it a destroyer programme for now, until they have a proper name, but there will be drones attached to them—because we need a flexible workforce.

Wars always accelerate innovation. The speed with which drone technology has developed in the Ukraine war is incredible, but we have seen this before. Look at the speed with which we moved from the V1 to the V2 rocket. Look at the speed of our work to develop atomic weapons over the six years of the second world war; we came very close to developing them then, and indeed ultimately did.

[Gordon McKee]

rose—

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke]

I will give way to my colleague on the NATO Parliamentary Assembly.

[Gordon McKee]

The right hon. Gentleman is, as always, making a very good speech. I want to make a point that I think is often under-appreciated when we talk about drones and drone warfare. The Ukrainians are, of course, world-leading, but I think that many of us in the west did not realise the extent to which Iran had advanced its drone technology. For instance, Iranian Shahed drones have been used by Russia to harm civilians in Ukraine. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that we must watch closely not just what our allies are developing, but what our adversaries are developing?

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke]

I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman, because that is a point that I was moving towards, given that today’s debate is about Iran, and the consequences of what is happening there for the conflict, for our country and for the defence of Europe. It is now clear that the Russians know how to defeat the weapons that remain in our warehouses, because when we use a weapon, they learn how to defeat it. We therefore have to accelerate our innovation and accelerate how we adapt, and a great deal of that involves drone warfare. Nevertheless, there is always a need for traditional weaponry. I look at the plans for the Royal Navy, and they seem to me to constitute a sensible way forward, but my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford is in a much stronger position to comment on that.

We have to accept that there are instance when the Ministry of Defence gets it really, really wrong. When, for a short period, I was the procurement Minister, Ajax was landing on my desk every day. My right hon. Friend knows as much about Ajax as most people in this House know about what is in their wardrobe—he knows every nut and bolt—and he is right when he says that we must accept at some point that some projects must be scrapped.

Rearmament and Warfighting Readiness

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2026 Commons Chamber

[Al Carns]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. Data is the new gunpowder. AI is absolutely critical in defence, and we should use all of our technological advantage to move faster and further than ever before. We should be bold and jump to the next generation of systems, and not wait for anyone else to lead—we should lead ourselves.

The lesson from my perspective is clear: stockpiles matter, but the ability to regenerate them matters even more. That is why I welcome the Government’s commitment to rebuild munition stockpiles, expand domestic production capacity and invest in British defence industry. Those are investments not just in military capability, but in national resilience.

The same is true for technology. Ukraine has demonstrated that innovation cycles measured in months can outperform procurement cycles measured in decades. Drones, autonomous systems, software and artificial intelligence are changing warfare at an extraordinary speed, and it will only ever get faster. Readiness, therefore, means building a procurement system that can adapt just as quickly, giving innovative British companies a route into defence and ensuring that our armed forces can evolve as rapidly as the threats they face. We have at present over 10,000 people in Defence Equipment and Support—that is, 10,000 people doing procurement. I am not saying that it is inefficient, but I am saying that bureaucracy sometimes gets in the way of speed.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that embedding that culture of innovation and iteration in the MOD is critical to ensuring that we can move as quickly as possible?

[Al Carns]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. This is about cultural change as much as adopting technology. If we were to adopt even the very simplest AI models now in how we do procurement, and move on to the next generation, we would find that the system speeds up, efficiencies are made and the right kit gets into the right hands far quicker than it does now.

Ultimately, rearmament is not about preparing for war because we expect it; it is about ensuring that war never happens in the first place. The purpose of rearmament is deterrence, and deterrence rests on three foundations: capable armed forces, political resolve and the industrial capacity to sustain both. If any one of those is missing, deterrence becomes far less credible when faced with an autocratic nation with huge industrial resilience. As we discuss rearmament today, let us think beyond platforms, procurement and spending lines. The defining lesson of modern conflict is that warfighting readiness is not simply a military condition; it is a national condition.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Monday 1st June 2026 Commons Chamber

[Mr Connor Rand (Altrincham and Sale West) (Lab)]

5. What assessment he has made of the level of threat from Russia. 

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

17. What assessment he has made of the level of threat from Russia.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)]

Russia poses a significant and persistent threat to UK and Atlantic security. Putin’s illegal war against Ukraine is now in its fifth year, and Russia conducts hostile cyber-activity, spreads disinformation and carries out sabotage against the UK and many other NATO allies almost daily. European security starts in Ukraine. In response to the recent brutal Russian attacks on Ukraine, I directed UK deliveries of air defence systems to Ukraine to be accelerated. This month, I will chair the next meeting of the 50-nation-strong Ukraine Defence Contact Group at NATO headquarters, at which we will look to further step up the military aid we can provide together.

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[John Healey]

I agree with my hon. Friend that we are right to seek a closer relationship with the European Union, which has an important contribution to make, from within a “NATO first” framework. That is why, last year, we signed the security and defence partnership with the European Union. The Prime Minister has said that we are looking to join the European Union’s Ukraine loan scheme, so that we can provide more aid to Ukraine, backed by the very best British companies, producing the best British kit for Ukrainian warfighters.

[Gordon McKee]

My hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale West (Mr Rand) mentioned the annual lecture delivered by the GCHQ director last week, which is important, and we should all reflect on the comments about Russia’s hybrid warfare. It is well established among security experts that Russia is conducting this kind of hybrid warfare, but that is not well understood by the general public. That is a problem, because deterring the attacks requires significant investment and inevitably, at some point, trade-offs. Will the Secretary of State produce a strategy internally—or increase its urgency, if it exists—for communicating the scale of Russian hybrid warfare against the United Kingdom?

[John Healey]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. We are doing more to expose the threats, and will do more still. The Russian threat against the UK is real and rising, and it is important for the public and Parliament to understand that. That is why I revealed last year that the Russian spy ship Yantar was monitoring our critical national undersea infrastructure, and that is why I exposed the month-long covert Russian submarine programme in and near UK waters. I say to Putin: we see you; we will expose you; and we will not stand for you targeting the UK.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2026 Commons Chamber

[Louise Sandher-Jones]

As we are continuing to work closely across Government and with the maritime trade unions, I do not wish to comment on the ongoing negotiations, but I can assure my hon. Friend that, as I said, this Labour Government and I recognise the extraordinary contribution of our seafarers and are working hard to deliver for the highly skilled personnel of our Royal Fleet Auxiliary.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

13. What steps he is taking to improve defence relationships with the UK’s allies.

[Michelle Scrogham (Barrow and Furness) (Lab)]

14. What steps he is taking to improve defence relationships with the UK’s allies.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Al Carns)]

Strengthening defence relationships with our allies is a central priority for the Government. We do that through joint operations, exercises, intelligence co-operation, deeper industrial partnerships and close planning with NATO and joint expeditionary force allies and other key partners. We have recently signed landmark defence agreements with Norway, Germany and France and have forged closer capability partnerships, including with Norway on Type 26 frigates and Turkey with Typhoon. The upcoming defence diplomacy strategy will help further enhance our international relationships.

[Gordon McKee]

The war in Ukraine has shown that rapid innovation cycles are critical to success. Minister Fedorov and others in Ukraine have helped to build a defence technology ecosystem that connects start-ups, engineers and units on the frontline, even allowing some of those units to operate quasi-independently to test out new technologies. Given that the strategic defence review recommended that the UK learn from its allies, how is the Minister using the defence relationship with Ukraine not just to support the Ukrainians in their fight but to learn from them so that we can strengthen the UK’s armed forces?

[Al Carns]

Since arriving in this House, I have been droning on about drones—it is one of the reasons I came into politics. There are three key lessons that we need to learn. The first is to adapt a process to give us a high-low mix of fifth-generation capability supported by cheap mass. That mass must be dumb hardware with sophisticated software. Finally, the software must be integrated across all domains and be driven by data and artificial intelligence. We will be able to achieve that only with a closer public-private partnership as we move forward.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Monday 8th September 2025 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

I share with the right hon. Gentleman, and, I think, every Member of this House, the pleasure and honour of attending such breakfast clubs with veterans in my constituency. He is right about the range of concerns that veterans raise, which includes the pressures of homelessness. Recognising the forces’ service in local authority housing priorities is our first step, and the £50 million going into the Op VALOUR system to increase support for veterans will also play a part.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

T3. The £10 billion contract with Norway will help to guarantee shipbuilding on the Clyde for many decades to come. Will the Minister join me in congratulating the workers at the shipyard in Glasgow, and will he assure me that the Government intend to everything they can to promote Glaswegian shipbuilding around the world?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Luke Pollard)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and thank the workers on the Clyde for their professionalism. It made the collective ministerial effort across Government much easier knowing that we have professional, dedicated and excellent workers on the Clyde who are able to build the Type 26 frigate, and on the opposite side of Scotland, supporting the workers at Rosyth, to build the Type 31 frigate, too. There is a huge future on either side of Scotland for British shipbuilding, and hopefully more export orders as well.

Strategic Defence Review

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Monday 2nd June 2025 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

The hon. and learned Gentleman knows well the scale and depth of the recruitment and retention crisis, and he knows very well that over the past 14 years we have seen consistent cuts in the strength of our full-time forces. This is the first Government for a generation who want to see an increase in the size of the full-time British Army, and that is what we will work to deliver.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

I was pleased to join the Secretary of State this morning in Glasgow, where he met some of the workers building the Type 26 frigate. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow West (Patricia Ferguson) said, the Norwegian Government are considering placing an order for that frigate, so can I ask the Secretary of State to do everything he can to encourage our Norwegian friends to order the frigate?

[John Healey]

I am, and I will.

Diego Garcia Military Base

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Thursday 22nd May 2025 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

The hon. Gentleman might just like to remember this and make the comparison: the total cost over the 99 years of the deal we have struck to protect this space and British control over it is less than the value of the personal protective equipment that was unusable and that was burned because the last Government bought it in the first year of the covid pandemic.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

The US supports this deal. NATO supports this deal. India supports this deal. Does the Secretary of State share my surprise that Opposition Members seem so intent on ignoring our allies?

[John Healey]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point very succinctly. I hope this House has heard it and I hope the Conservative party listens to it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Luke Pollard]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. The 77th Brigade does a superb job of tackling disinformation, especially by malign actors. We need to expand our provision and range of capabilities, which is precisely why we have created a new direct entry cyber-pathway to recruit people directly into our cyber-forces to support our national resilience in both defensive and offensive operations. The hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot talk about ongoing operations, but I can say that we are investing more in this area to keep ourselves and our allies safe.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

With GCHQ, the UK’s cyber-operations are genuinely world-leading. What assurance can the Minister give the House that we will continue to support Ukraine with our cyber-security?

[Luke Pollard]

We have made it very clear that we will continue supporting Ukraine, not only to put it in the best possible position on the battlefield and in any negotiations to come, but to secure its critical national infrastructure. We will continue working with Ukraine’s defence and civilian sectors, which are incredibly impressive in this area, to make sure that it has the technology, training and access to support to keep its country safe.

Ukraine

Gordon McKee Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

The Government understand the case that my hon. Friend makes. The Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), met him last night to discuss this further.

[Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

On a visit to Kiev with parliamentary colleagues last month, I saw at first hand the incredible bravery of the Ukrainian people, who will welcome this statement. Unfortunately, Russia’s war machine continues to be powered by western-made semiconductors that are smuggled into the country. May I ask the Secretary of State what work the Government are doing to make sure that Russia does not get access to that technology?

[John Healey]

One of the Government’s great assets is my hon. Friend the Minister of State because of the work that he does with many other countries. Whenever discussions are required or evidence is gathered he speaks to many of the countries that may find that they have within them companies that might be involved in those supply chains. Wherever that happens, my hon. Friend is on it, and he is leading the charge to ensure that where we can identify those supply chains, we take the action that is necessary to close them down.