International Freedom of Religion or Belief Bill

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 26th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

In the Book of St Matthew 7:16, it says,

“By their fruits you shall know them.”

Across this House, every one of us represents constituents, but some of us represent much more than just our constituents. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), who embodies that piece of scripture. In all the years I have been here and in all the engagements we have had, she embodies that so fundamentally. The fact that, in December 2020, she was appointed as the Prime Minister’s special envoy on freedom of religion or belief was of no surprise to me, knowing her commitment personally and her passion for these issues, but the fact that she brings forward this Bill not about her, but about the continuation of the quest, the campaign or, in this context, the mission field, is very important indeed. I am delighted to rise in support of the Bill and the hon. Lady’s bringing it forward. She is small and quiet, but she is mighty, and she always has been mighty in her endeavours. She brings an assured and engaging zeal to these issues in the good times and the bad.

The hon. Lady rightfully mentioned the watch list launched last week in Parliament. That watch list captivates Members of Parliament each and every year. Some Members of Parliament go because they are concerned; all Members of Parliament who go leave concerned. Some turn up just because they get scores of cards encouraging them to do so. But if they take the time to go and hear the plight of 371 million Christians throughout the world—and the issue is not just about Christians—they leave emboldened to ensure that we do what we can, with our relative luxury, to assist those around the world who do not have such fortunate circumstances.

Having a love of Jesus should not impact on people’s ability to live freely, to work within their community or to talk about their feelings or faith, but that is what happens to many around the world. As I said, it is not just about Jesus; many in this world have a faith that is different from mine, but they suffer similarly. I say similarly because the same thing always occurs to me when I get the chance to attend the Open Doors events, which leave me annoyed but determined. I always think about how many people living among us in this country over-use and abuse the word “persecution” and never reflect on what is going on around the world. They have not a clue or an understanding about the key issues—and neither do I, but I open my heart and my ears to see them and hear them. I genuinely think those are important annual events that give us the opportunity not only to engage with like-minded people but to leave with a sense that, in whatever field we work or in whatever faith field we live, we have a contribution to make in this space.

The fact that the Prime Minister was able to lift the recommendation from the Bishop of Truro and appoint a special envoy is great. It has been impacted by a worldwide pandemic and probably has not achieved all that we wished to achieve, but the Prime Minister’s current incumbent, the hon. Member for Congleton, trusts that the role can be put to good purpose for many years to come. There is a valid, valiant and purposeful role for the Prime Minister’s special envoy for our nation to speak on these issues. Internationally, we are credited for our role, as she mentioned.

My hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who has chaired the APPG for many years and who raises issues from around the world every Thursday in questions to the Leader of the House, recognises the importance of these issues and of our continually encouraging the Government to speak and act powerfully in this space. It is no surprise that that interest leads to our aid contributions and humanitarianism across the world being as powerful as they are.

We cannot overstate the issue, and neither should we underplay the importance of seeking to lift the proposal to place the role of a special envoy on a statutory footing. It has my full support, and I commend the hon. Member for Congleton for the steps that she takes in her role and for the Bill that she puts before us today.

Sudan

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mitchell]

I would never purposefully try to swerve my hon. Friend’s questions. She and I were indeed in the same Lobby, and I just point out to her that collective responsibility, as I have mentioned to the House previously, is not retrospective. In respect of the funding in Sudan, she will know that the one area of the budget where there is a degree of flexibility, even in these straitened times, is in the humanitarian area. Clearly, what is happening in Sudan now will inform the decisions that we make in that respect.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

May I, on behalf of the Democratic Unionists, commend our armed forces for their significant efforts in what is a most challenging and complex situation? I invite the Minister to recognise that it may be a stretch to suggest that having no diplomatic or military footprint in Sudan has no effect on our ability to rescue and evacuate British citizens. Having listened to a Northern Ireland resident last Wednesday who was doing an interview ensconced in his basement with his family in Sudan, highlighting that he was having to siphon water from a tap in his neighbour’s home and had little recourse to food at that point, how do we assure him that he has not just been left alone?

[Mr Mitchell]

I thank the hon. Member for his comments about the armed forces. As I mentioned in the statement, we do not think that our diplomatic reach is diminished in these circumstances by diplomats being withdrawn. That is because, when they were holed up in great jeopardy in Khartoum, they were not able to operate, and most of the work was being done from the crisis centre in London, and that is the position today. I can tell him that our teams in surrounding states are moving to the point where they can help anyone who comes in across the border, and the diplomatic mission that was resident in Khartoum will be relocating shortly to a neighbouring country.

Ukraine

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[James Cleverly]

My right hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point about the significance of grain exports from the Black sea, and I have listened to his proposal. Russia needs to immediately reverse its pause on its involvement in Black sea exports. We will look at any options that increase the flow of food to the global south and to the people who need that food more than ever. I take my right hon. Friend’s suggestion seriously. Ultimately, we want to do whatever we can to increase grain exports immediately.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement. I recognise the answers that he has already given about sanctions on the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps; I encourage him to recognise that there will be support across the House should he deem it fit to take further action, as I would encourage him to.

It is encouraging to hear that the United Nations is standing by ship movements today, but will he elaborate from a diplomatic perspective on the avenues available through the United Nations to increase international support, bearing in mind the veto that Russia continues to have in the P5?

[James Cleverly]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the in-built limitations of the United Nations because of Russia’s abuse of its veto. Across the world, 143 countries have voted in condemnation of annexation and 141 have voted in condemnation of the attack. We know that the United Nations is still an incredibly important institution, but Russia’s veto limits to some extent what it can do. We will continue to work with the UN and with Turkey and others to maximise the grain exports through the Black sea so that we can alleviate the hunger felt by the global south.

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 27th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We still face a situation in which the EU has refused to change the text of the protocol, and its proposals do not even address many of the issues of concern—over governance, subsidies, manufactured goods and VAT. Without dealing with those very real issues for the people of Northern Ireland we are not going to see the balance of the Belfast Good Friday agreement restored, and we are not going to see the cross-community support we need to get the political institutions back up and running.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

The Foreign Secretary knows that the three things that need to be resolved are the friction in trade; repairing the harm to our constitutional position within this country; and erasing the democratic deficit at the heart of the protocol. The Foreign Secretary has fairly outlined the myriad steps the Government have taken; if this Bill is required, they can have our support in resolving these issues, but she will also hear a lot of opposition from Members of other parties on this side of the House. In hearing that opposition from colleagues sitting to my right and left, can she identify even one of them who advocated using article 16 or the provisions of the protocol, or have they simply no interest in trying to resolve the issues affecting the people of Northern Ireland today?

[Elizabeth Truss]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Those who advocate further negotiation with the EU need to persuade the EU to change its negotiating mandate so the text of the protocol can change, because we know that those specific issues, including on the customs bureaucracy and VAT, can only be addressed by addressing the text of the protocol itself.

I want to come on to the specific point the hon. Gentleman made about article 16. Of course we have looked at triggering article 16 to deal with this issue; however, we came to the conclusion that it would not resolve the fundamental issues in the protocol. It is only a temporary measure and it would only treat some of the symptoms without fixing the root cause of the problems, which are baked into the protocol text itself. It could also lead to attrition and litigation with the EU while not delivering sufficient change.

I want to be clear: we do not rule out using article 16 further down the line if the circumstances demand it, but in order to fix the very real problems in Northern Ireland and get the political institutions back up and running, the only solution that is effective and provides a comprehensive and durable solution is this Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Ten minutes is the time usually taken to make opening remarks, and popularity is something that I have always shunned.

The shadow Foreign Secretary is right: at the heart of this is trust or the absence of it—or, as she leaves the Chamber, the absence of Truss. Is the protocol perfect? No, it is not. The question, therefore, is not whether but how changes should be made. There are many ways to achieve change, but this Bill is not one of them.

The Office of Speaker’s Counsel has provided a legal opinion to all members of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, and it raises enormous concerns about this Bill’s legality. The Foreign Secretary and others have tried to conflate—they have fallen into the trap of conflating—the resurrection of devolution and the protocol. Those are two very separate and different workstreams, and we need to decouple them. Treaty making is reserved to this place; devolution is the duty of the politicians of Northern Ireland. We can and should be able to see the resurrection of one and negotiation on the other, but to fall into the trap of conflating them, the result of which is this Bill, is very sad indeed.

This is not a well thought-out Bill, it is not a good Bill and it is not a constitutional Bill. The integrity of the United Kingdom can be changed only via the Good Friday agreement. The protocol and trading arrangements do not interrupt or change the constitutional integrity of the UK, so I do not agree with those who try to position this as a constitutional Bill.

[Gavin Robinson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Simon Hoare]

If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I want to make a few more points.

This Bill represents a failure of statecraft and puts at risk the reputation of the United Kingdom. The arguments in support of it are flimsy at best and irrational at worst. The Bill risks economically harmful retaliation and runs the risk of shredding our reputation as a guardian of international law and the rules-based system. How in the name of heaven can we expect to speak to others with authority when we ourselves shun, at a moment’s notice, our legal obligations? A hard-won reputation so easily played with—

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Hoare]

My hon. Friend was obviously not listening, because I made it very clear at the start that the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom is not touched by the protocol. The constitutional integrity of Northern Ireland within our United Kingdom is contained within the clauses of the Good Friday agreement—that is the only way. Anybody who tries to position this protocol—

[Gavin Robinson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Simon Hoare]

I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind, because of the time.

Anybody who thinks that this is, in some way, a back door to a speeding up of the reunification of Ireland is fundamentally wrong.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

The provisions in our Bill will do just that. We have heard acknowledgement from the Labour party that there are real concerns about the way in which the Northern Ireland protocol is operating, but we need to move to the solution, which requires the EU to change its mandate and the terms in the protocol itself. Otherwise, we cannot address the customs and tax issues. I urge the Opposition to look at that in more detail.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I sincerely lament that there are some MPs today—particularly from Northern Ireland—who have introduced a level of majoritarianism. That is not going to work in Northern Ireland; it is not how our system operates.

I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s statement and the work that the Northern Ireland Secretary has engaged in for some time. The House is aware of the White Paper that was published last summer and aware that the conditions to trigger article 16 had been met, and it is now fully aware of the constitutional imperative—for good governance and democracy in Northern Ireland—that this matter is resolved. I implore the Foreign Secretary, in recognising that urgency, that weeks and weeks for the introduction and passage of legislation is not quick enough; we need to see movement now.

[Elizabeth Truss]

I am giving this statement to the House today because we are bringing forward legislation in the coming weeks to address the precise issues mentioned by the hon. Gentleman. He is right that, ultimately, the Belfast/Good Friday agreement is founded on power sharing and respect for all communities in Northern Ireland, and that is what we are reflecting in our proposed solutions.

Elections Bill

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Wednesday 27th April 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He poses a question, but he also poses a solution. We both know what the solutions are, and clearly the Minister does too.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

There has been no discernible drop-off in voter turnout as a result of the requirement for photographic ID in Northern Ireland. I looked up the turnout figures in the constituency of the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington, and they are sitting at around 60% with no voter ID; in my constituency in Northern Ireland, where voter ID is required, turnout is higher. Voter ID has not had a discernible impact. I have been entirely frustrated during the passage of the Bill with the reticence from Labour. Does my hon. Friend agree that that has no factual basis and has not been borne out in reality whatsoever?

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I totally agree with him.

I looked through some of the things referred to in Lords amendment 86 as a “specified document”. Nearly half of them do not have any photographic ID. I could lift the cheque book of the hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton (Chris Clarkson), take it down to the polling station and pretend to be him, when that is absolutely not true, because that is one of the documents listed. This does not work with documents without photographic ID, so I come back to the point I made at the beginning—and I thank the Minister very much for setting the scene.

Sometimes I wonder about change. When the seatbelt legislation came in, we probably fought against that because it was an attack on our liberty, but we all wear a seatbelt now because it is the norm. When helmets were made compulsory for motorbike riders, some of us thought that was an attack on our liberty, but now people wear a helmet on a motorbike all the time. If photo ID comes in, it will be the same—it will be accepted—because the Government have a process that makes it simple and achievable. When electoral ID was first introduced in Northern Ireland, there was a £2 charge. There is no charge any more. The system works because the Government want it to work; they want people to go and vote. That is what this process has to be about—encouraging people to go and vote and use their franchise whenever they can.

I want to comment on some of the things that have been flagged up over time. It is important to feed into the process; while we have photographic ID, there are things that sometimes crop up in the process, and it is always good to exchange those things. I know that the Minister is always keen to see what we are doing across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but in particular in Northern Ireland.

On voter ID, we have had photographic ID in Northern Ireland for some time. We encourage people to be paperless at work and to bank online, so I look at the requirements and wonder how people can provide a bank statement that is not a print-off. The problems are real.

--- Later in debate ---

We ask people to use their vote, yet for some that is almost impossible. Back home, we have Northern Ireland Assembly elections, and—my hon. Friend will confirm this—a large number of elderly and ill voters have had their postal vote denied because they did not have a digital registration number on their application. We introduce some of this digital stuff, but there is a generation who do not understand how the system works, how to register or what digital actually means—I say that respectfully and I am one of them.

[Gavin Robinson]

True luddite, Jim.

[Jim Shannon]

Many people cannot follow it, and I suspect that I am one of them.

The denial letter is sent with the DRN on it. Again, the elderly and ill people ask, “What does that DRN mean?” I say positively and constructively to the Minister that I believe she will replicate what we have done in Northern Ireland and probably do it better, having learnt from some of the mistakes made back home. How do I explain to an 87-year-old woman—I will not mention her name—that the electoral office needs information that she did not know that she had and that, because she has been denied her vote at this time, I will have to borrow a wheelchair to take her down to vote? We will do that on the day, and she has not left her home in two years. I say that because the digital process was lost on that lady, and it is lost on many others.

The digital registration number is essential according to the legislation, yet it means nothing in practice. She had used her national insurance number for the last 65 years of her life, yet all of a sudden that is not what the electoral office wants. She understands that, but she does not understand what the DRN is. Again, that is about looking at how we can make the system better.

I believe we are overcomplicating the system, and it is the ordinary person who is the loser. Those sitting in a room fraudulently filling out postal vote forms know all about DRN—they understand it, but this lady does not. She will make herself ill getting to the polling station because she will not miss her vote. Never mind that she has had a postal vote for that address for many elections, there is no room in the legislation for common sense.

My fear is that the Lords amendments do not go far enough and complicate matters, which is why I look to the Minister and the Government for suggestions on how to take the issue forward. I welcome Lords amendments 15 to 19, which include explicit reference to voting in secret and “independently”, and would place new statutory duties on the Electoral Commission to draw up new guidance to support an independent and secret vote at the polling station from 2023, consult relevant organisations in the production of that guidance, and hold returning officers to account for following that guidance. However, as the Royal National Institute of Blind People says, the key question will, of course, be whether blind and partially sighted voters have better experiences at polling stations in 2023 and beyond. On that, it is clearly too soon to say.

I know the Minister is keen. I know the comments she has made in the past on ensuring those who are visually impaired have the right to have the same opportunity to vote and a system they understand. I know the Minister wants to make sure that happens, but perhaps she could confirm that that will be the case.

I will conclude with this comment. There is an overarching theme that this legislation may not be hitting. That is to encourage people to vote and not set up hurdle after hurdle for those who are minded to vote. If people want to cast their vote and use their franchise, and if we want to ensure they have that opportunity in whatever way they can—it is right that they should—then I believe this House must ensure that people have that vote. I look forward very much to what the Minister will say. I cast my mind back to our experiences in Northern Ireland and what we have done. Do not feel threatened in any way by photo ID. It works for us; it can work for you.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

In Belfast, they might say, “Good on you, auld hand,” Mr Speaker, but we are delighted with your elevation.

The Minister knows that I will not go into details about this case because of its sensitive nature, but I want to pay tribute to him: my constituent is now home from Cameroon and in the arms of his family. They are incredibly grateful to him for the work that he has done and to Sir Simon McDonald, Chris Ribbands, Sharon Gannery, the deputy commissioner, and Amina Begum Ali for all their tremendous work. There is a family full of love and joy in my constituency where they did not think that that would happen, so I thank him.

[Andrew Stephenson]

May I thank the hon. Gentleman for the tireless work that he does for his constituency and for the family in question? We are not always able to resolve cases as satisfactorily as we have resolved this one, but we will always try everything that we can to help British citizens in trouble abroad.

Persecution of Christians Overseas

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting this important debate. I also thank my hon. Friends the Members for Croydon South (Chris Philp) and for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) for joining me to present the case to the Committee. I thank, too, the Minister for Europe and the Americas and the Foreign Secretary for their commitment to this issue—the Foreign Secretary has been much committed to this issue—and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Truro for his efforts in carrying out the review of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s work to support persecuted Christians.

In the past year, 100,000 Christians will have been murdered because of their faith and 200 million will have been persecuted because of their faith. Some 2 billion people live in what is referred to as an endangered neighbourhood. That is the magnitude of this issue and why it is so important to have it before us in the House today.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene. As he praises the commitment of others across the House, may I just pay tribute to the work that he does in his role as chair of the all-party group for international freedom of religion or belief. He represents incredibly well our party, our constituents, and, I think, all those of faith who believe that we have more to do, so I thank him.

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is most generous. I have been working to raise the issue of the persecution of Christians, people of other faiths and people with no faith.

Exiting the European Union (Sanctions)

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Tuesday 9th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I think the right hon. Lady may have misunderstood my answers. She is right that the question has been asked three times and I have answered three times, but this is not actually the moment we are announcing individual designations or decisions. What we are looking at today in the four statutory instruments is, in lay language, the framework within which any such designations can fit. I say once again, I think for the fourth or fifth time, that it is our intention to lift the EU sanctions regimes that exist at the moment and put them into our own regime once it is up and running, but we will follow the law to ensure there are no issues where we could unnecessarily be taken to court and be challenged. We will have rigorous standards, but we do not envisage our not transferring EU regimes. We do not envisage that happening very much, if at all. It would be quite rare.

I should just answer one point about whether the Foreign Office will have the resources to manage this regime. I think the answer is yes. We have increased the number of staff working on sanctions quite considerably, and we are confident that we will retain and increase the UK’s capacity and capability after Brexit.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I will let the hon. Gentleman slip through the net.

[Gavin Robinson]

I am very grateful to the Minister. I do not want to flog the issue, but in circumstances where there is an EU sanction proposed and it does not fit with our legislative test—that is quite right, given the framework he outlines—does he envisage those issues being brought before Parliament through a report or a ministerial statement? Will there be parliamentary engagement around that decision to not comply or follow through with the sanction that has been agreed at EU level?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I am not sure it would quite work in that way, but I am very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with our understanding of what we think the parliamentary engagement would be in any such decision to either list or not to list. Given that this is the early stage of our implementing the Act, I hope he can accept that as my commitment to him for the time being.

Having mentioned the Burma sanctions, the Venezuela sanctions, which we have been debating a bit, will: encourage the Venezuelan Government to abide by democratic principles, if only they would; respect human rights and the rule of law; refrain from the repression of civil society; and bring about a peaceful solution to the political crisis in Venezuela. The Iran human rights regulations are designed to encourage the Government of Iran to comply with international human rights law and to respect human rights. The EU sanctions regime emerged partly in response to the Iranian Government’s treatment of protestors in demonstrations against election fraud in 2009. The EU sanctions regime targets those who have been involved in the commission of serious human rights violations or abuses in Iran. The EU sanctions regime on Guinea-Bissau was established in 2012 and targets those who played a leading role in its 2010 mutiny and 2012 coup. It is designed to curb actions that undermine the country’s peace, security or stability.

Hon. Members will note that human rights are a significant focus of the sanctions regime under consideration today. I hope I have adequately explained how the human rights element of the sanctions Act, the Magnitsky clause, will fit into the statutory instruments before us today. The four statutory instruments transfer into UK law well-established EU sanctions regimes that are in line with the UK’s foreign policy priorities. They encourage human rights compliance, the rule of law, and security and stability in very difficult environments. I re-emphasise the importance of putting them in place. If this does not happen before exit day in a no-deal scenario, the UK would not be able to continue to properly implement the measures they contain. Therefore, Mr Deputy Speaker, I commend the regulations to the House.

Counter-Daesh Update

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My understanding is that the number of people from the UK trying to join Daesh to fight has fallen significantly, but I will write to my hon. Friend with the most up-to-date information. In terms of the total numbers, about 900 UK citizens have gone to fight with Daesh, about 40% of whom have come back and about 20% of whom have been killed. We are obviously working out as quickly as we can what is going to happen to the remaining 40%.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for the statement he has made. He is right to highlight the importance of our efforts in the cyber-sphere, and to mention that we host the global coalition’s strategic centre communications cell. When we considered this work in the Defence Committee, we heard that our efforts are too slow, too reactive and too cautious, and when we asked who excels in this sphere, we were told it was the Israel defence forces. Will the Secretary of State engage with Israeli representatives and learn the lessons about how we could be more proactive and more effective?

[Mr Hunt]

I will happily take that away. My understanding is that we have excellent co-operation with the IDF, and there are always things we can learn from working with other organisations involved in similar battles. Of course, we do work under the very tight legal constraints rightly imposed by this House in terms of what our agencies are and are not allowed to do and the authorisations necessary. That is something we would not want to change: that is as it should be. However, I will happily take away the challenge of seeing what we can learn from the IDF, which have a formidable reputation.