Oral Answers to Questions
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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The Deputy Prime Minister
The reason for those figures is the shocking state of the public finances left by Labour. Today’s IMF report very precisely identified three reasons why the British economy still faces real headwinds: first, increasing global commodity prices last year, which was not something we could control; secondly, the uncertainties of the eurozone, which is also not under our control; and thirdly, the hangover of monumental public and private debt, which was, indeed, a debt crisis made in No. 10—the No. 10 of Gordon Brown, aided and abetted by the backroom boys, the current Labour leader and shadow Chancellor. It is they who created the crisis in the first place.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
T14. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that proceeding urgently and with vigour on the reform of political party funding is a matter of fairness and justice?
The Deputy Prime Minister
We all know that that is a problem for all political parties. The controversies and scandals about party funding, the opaque way in which it is organised and the imperfect way in which political parties are held to account has damaged all political parties. That is why it is overwhelmingly in our shared interest to come to an agreement. As I said earlier, it is merely a matter of political will. The Kelly committee has show in outline what the bare bones of an agreement should look like and I hope that we will now be able to reach one.
Trade Union Funding
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Owen, and a privilege to introduce this debate. In doing so, may I, as someone who comes from a northern mill town, where my grandmother started weaving in the cotton mill as a young girl and lost much of her education as a result, acknowledge the historic role that trade unions have played in our country throughout the past century in improving and defending workers’ rights? They are worthy of our respect. I acknowledge too the important role that they still play today as a valuable part of our civic society in supporting and advocating workers’ rights and representation.
The debate is not about criticising the work to which I have referred, but about the promotion of transparency, accountability and fairness in the way in which such work is fulfilled—things that I hope we would all agree it is right to promote in public and civic life. It is about ensuring that the right balance is found between effective representation of trade union members and value for money for the taxpayer. Many of us believe that, at the moment, the balance disproportionately disadvantages the taxpayer.
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)
On that point, will the hon. Lady give way?
Fiona Bruce
I will give way and I am happy to take interventions, but perhaps, in the interests of transparency, the hon. Gentleman will first say which trade union he is a member of and how much money that union has given to his constituency Labour party in the past three years.
Mr Sutcliffe
You would not allow me to do that, Mr Owen, on the basis that interventions must be brief, but I will write to the hon. Lady with all the information that she has requested, because I am proud to be a member of a number of trade unions. In the calculation that she has made in relation to transparency and the balance being wrong, how much weight has she put on the amount of work that unions do to help employers to have good industrial relations?
Fiona Bruce
I have already recognised the positive work that trade unions do. We are simply saying that it is unfair that taxpayers should have to shoulder the burden of the cost of that work to the degree that they do, particularly when so many of those taxpayers and council tax payers have no connection with the work of those unions.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
On that point, will the hon. Lady give way?
John Healey
Will the hon. Lady not accept that the facts show that where a trade union is involved with an employer, fewer days are lost through illness and injury and there are fewer employment tribunal cases and that there are, therefore, cost savings to the human resources function and the organisation, which are clearly benefits to the employer? If that is the case, is it not right to accept that the employer should bear some of the cost of the work that union representatives do for their work colleagues and for their employer and their organisation?
Fiona Bruce
We are saying that the cost is wholly disproportionate. Millions of pounds a year of taxpayers’ money are being used to fund this activity. I have said that much of the activity is worth while, but much of it veers towards being, if not is, political. During the past 13 years of the—
Fiona Bruce
Thank you, Mr Owen. During the 13 years of the Labour Government, the Government were funded to the tune of £10 million a year by the unions in political work. We think that that is wrong.
Fiona Bruce
I shall continue, if I may, because I have hardly embarked on my speech and I know that many other hon. Members wish to contribute to the debate.
I have acknowledged the good work that trade unions do. My concerns about union funding and financial support stem from my time as a councillor in Warrington. In 2006, when Labour lost control of the council and a joint Conservative and Liberal administration took over, I was allocated a portfolio with the title “Value for Money”, later augmented to the finance portfolio as a whole. One action that I undertook was to review all the property assets of the council to see where efficiency savings could be made and where, at a time of increasing pressure on our services, better value for money could be delivered for our council tax payers. I am talking about money being allocated to front-line services. We analysed every building and piece of land that the council owned—that had never been done before—and drew up plans to ensure that their use and value was in the best interests of residents. The use of some buildings was increased. For some buildings, joint use was the way forward. Rents were reviewed where appropriate. Some properties were repaired. Others were released for sale, so that the funds on disposal could be utilised more effectively for the benefit of residents.
To my surprise, I discovered that one of the authority’s most prestigious properties, part of a wing of the town hall itself—undoubtedly the most prestigious listed building in the town, in the prime commercial letting area—was occupied rent free, and with services free, by local union representatives, at considerable cost to local council tax payers.
Fiona Bruce
No, I shall continue with my speech, if I may. In the interests of transparency, which I mentioned earlier, I would have liked to obtain the definitive figures for that cost, but I was never able to do so. I did, on a number of occasions, ask that use of the asset be reviewed, but I could never get council officers even to consider reviewing the use of that asset in the same way as the use of every other property asset in the town was being reviewed, while all the time local community groups, charities, small business owners and others were seeing their charges for and use of property reviewed. The fact that property used by trade union representatives was exempt from that process struck me as simply unjust.
The value of the use of that asset—prime commercial property—when multiplied over many years, must have amounted to thousands of pounds. That money could have been used to keep down the costs of renting local community halls by youth groups, guides and scouts and mum and tots, and for other front-line services in a town where many residents are by no means affluent. I am sure that few, if any, council tax payers in Warrington knew that their money was being spent in that way, and that had they known and had they realised the amounts involved, they would have been as surprised as I was. It is interesting to note that if I, as Member of Parliament for Congleton, wanted to hold my surgery in the town hall, I would be required to pay a charge.
Therefore, when I heard about the Trade Union Reform Campaign, which was founded to reform the laws and funding arrangements relating to trade unions and so to create a more level playing field, I was pleased to support it and become a council member, together with many other hon. Members who are here today and will speak after me to raise concerns in addition to the one that I have highlighted—the use of council facilities. In supporting the campaign, I am pleased to note that we are in good company. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister himself is backing the campaign and wrote in November—[Interruption.] He wrote in November to its chairman, my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley), to whom I pay tribute for standing up and spearheading this campaign. The Prime Minister wrote:
“I am pleased that you have decided to establish the Trade Union Reform Campaign…as I strongly believe the current level of public subsidy to the trade unions cannot be sustained, either morally or economically…at a time when across the private and public sectors people are having to take very difficult decisions in order to save money, it is difficult to justify some people in the public sector being paid not to do the job they are employed for, but instead to undertake full time trade union activities—much of which should be funded by the unions themselves. We need to question why the public is paying for so much, and whether this is sustainable going forward.”
That is what we are doing today. Hard-working taxpayers, particularly in these challenging economic times, deserve to see Government, at local and national level, stewarding people’s money responsibly and doing all that they can to maximise its use, so that as much as possible can go to the front line, for those most in need. I am talking about stewarding people’s money responsibly and ensuring transparency, accountability and fairness.
I do not want to pre-empt what others will say, but I do want to draw attention to the excellent contribution my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase made in his Adjournment debate on 26 October 2011, when he gave many clear examples and staggering figures. He drew the attention of the House to the issue and to the need for reform based on the principle that the activities that people undertake on behalf of trade unions should be funded by those trade unions and not by the taxpayer. Why should taxpayers pay for that work?
People pay council tax to have their bins emptied and their streets cleaned. Councils across the country are making every effort to keep council tax frozen, and the Government are making every effort to pay off Labour’s deficit. At this time, more than ever, it is right that we ask the questions I have posed.
I applaud Swindon council, which has recently taken steps to review the issue. It has removed the shared job of two union representatives as part of a £15 million reduction. Councillors who met to finalise the council’s budget said they should not have to pay their staff to do union work in the current economic climate.
Colleagues who follow me will have many questions for the Minister, but I would be grateful if he would give us guidance on how town halls up and down the country can challenge union representatives’ use of facilities that would be better utilised for the benefit of the community. In the light of the excellent contribution my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase made in his earlier debate, will the Minister also update us on the progress of Government action to deal with the concerns my hon. Friend raised? I had intended to repeat them, but I will not, because so many other Members want to speak.
Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)
In the brief time that I have, I want to say that I believe that this is a callous attempt to attack the trade unions and trade union members in the workplace. Many of them are ordinary men and women simply seeking to do a valuable job. My hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) —my very good friend and former mining colleague—said that he is not sure that anyone here has ulterior political motives: I am sorry to disagree, but I believe that that is the case.
Ian Lavery
I will not give way. It has been mentioned before that we want more transparency. Since the Tory Government took office, they have introduced a certification officer. We now have more legislation than any other democracy in the western world, and our trade unions are more restricted than anywhere else. My view is quite simple—there is a concerted attack on ordinary men and women. However, we should not be surprised. When any Government Member gets up and says, “My auntie used to work here, and my father was a miner”, we know that something is coming in the following sentence: kick the trade unions.
I disagree with several things that have been said. On 30 November, the day of the public sector strikes, the Prime Minister clearly stated in the House that he would review the facility time for trade unions. That was his reaction—to kick the trade unions for daring to have the audacity to speak up for their membership. However, it had been mentioned beforehand.
Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on securing the debate. It is important that things are debated. However passionate the arguments on each side are, there is nothing wrong with having this debate.
I have been disillusioned this morning. I am certainly not speaking in the debate to bash the unions. I do not believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) wanted to bash the unions either.
Fiona Bruce
Will my hon. Friend confirm that not one single Member on this side of the Chamber has said anything other than to acknowledge the good work of the unions?
Alec Shelbrooke
When people look back through Hansard, they will see that much praise has been given to the trade unions.
I was a member of Unite for 11 years. My money ended up being spent against my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), but there we go. I cannot say that I was ever funded by Unite. I believed in the trade unions, and one of the most important things about them comes down to the shop stewards. I have seen some good shop stewards—members of the Labour party and elected councillors. I was a Conservative councillor, and the shop steward in the university where I worked was a Labour councillor, but we were able to work together. A lot of it comes down to the shop steward on the floor, and I have seen progress being made.
I am not here to bash the work of the unions at all. The problem I think we have—I put this challenge to Opposition Members—is that if at the next general election, Royal Bank of Scotland turned up and said, “We have decided to give £10 million to the Tory party to campaign,” there would be outcry from the Opposition Benches.
Public Services (Social Value) Bill
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
May I, too, pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) for the foresight, diligence and perseverance with which he has brought forward the Bill? He has already achieved much by influencing mindsets and stimulating public debate, and those involved in the commissioning of and bidding for public services have already become much more aware of the importance of social value to the process. So, even before the Bill has passed into law, I congratulate him on all that he has achieved.
In opposing the new clauses proposed by the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) I must say that if a key aim of the Bill is to stimulate and encourage creativity and innovation in the growth of social value and social enterprise, particularly locally, and if, as I think we all agree, we are on a journey in that respect, much can be achieved, as my hon. Friend has already demonstrated, without unnecessarily defining or delaying the process through a national strategy. Let us get on with it and see the Bill passed into law.
The broad potential improvements and impact of the Bill are substantial. I shall touch on some of them now and, if time permits, on some of the ways in which, in my local authority already, there is refreshed thinking about the importance of considering social value when awarding contracts.
One of the key merits of the Bill is its proposal to expand and embed the concept of social value in the bidding process for public sector funding, and that is true not just when social enterprises are involved, but when private sector providers compete against one another. Providers are likely to lever social value into many more submissions for public funding, and in that respect the Bill will have an exponential effect on the bidding landscape.
The Bill will, I hope, introduce more flexibility to tendering. When I discussed it with the head of CVS Cheshire East, she said that the tendering processes need reviewing and
“need to be relevant to the service that is being commissioned”.
She went on to say that
“grants are often used to encourage creative solutions to a need or problem…A tender often doesn’t enable this to happen, as the method for solving the need has already been set.”
Another way in which I hope the Bill will add social value is by opening up the often complex and baffling area of public procurement to smaller local social enterprises. They work at the grass roots of their community and with an ear to the ground, and they are often best placed to work most effectively for their communities and to add social value by levering in, for example, volunteering, but until now they have felt that the bureaucratic barriers to tendering have been just too great. For local authorities to say, “We welcome you, recognise what you have to offer and are going to proactively work with you through the application process to help you successfully bid,” will be a real step change for such enterprises.
Many faith-based organisations augment our local communities, adding so much social value through youth work and work with the homeless, the elderly, the addicted and the lonely and in many other areas, but in recent years they have felt discouraged from applying for public sector funding, perhaps because of concerns that in procurement their ethos does not tick all the right boxes. I therefore hope also that, as a result of the Bill, they will be encouraged to make such applications in future. So often, what injects faith-based organisations with their tremendous energy, dedication and perseverance springs from that very ethos, and in a truly diverse society let us celebrate, not seek to neutralise it, because at the end of the day all organisations have an ethos; none can be wholly devoid of one, or totally neutral. So let us welcome such valuable organisations fully into the public procurement process. The Bill sends out the right signals in that regard, and I welcome that aspect of it.
I now quote some specific comments on the Bill from social enterprises in my constituency and cite some examples of good practice among them, showing how very much they welcome the Bill. Plus Dane is a housing association based in Cheshire and Merseyside that manages 12,500 homes and works as a neighbourhood investor. Mike Doran, its manager, who is based in Congleton, said:
“I believe the Bill will be of great benefit both to organisations such as ourselves but also to the wider community of locally based social enterprises…The need to demonstrate social value within procurement activity will ensure that a double bottom line of both economic and social good can be generated.”
I congratulate Cheshire East council as a forward-thinking council in this respect which absolutely recognises the value that organisations, community groups and social enterprises can add to our community livelihoods. I am delighted that in the recent past it has worked with Plus Dane on various projects. Plus Dane is delivering grounds maintenance and environmental services to the local authority. It is providing training and work for young people who have been long-term unemployed or have a history of getting into trouble with the law, enabling them to go on to gain full-time employment elsewhere. Plus Dane is working with the council in the provision of house building, with 35 apprentices, and it is supporting the development of a local apprenticeship initiative in Congleton that has involved the chamber of commerce, Congleton town partnership and local schools. This type of project is laudable, and this Bill will encourage a far greater recognition of such partnerships across local communities, which can make an exponential difference.
Another example is an enterprise called Visyon, which provides advice to young people who are suffering from abuse, the results of family breakdown, bullying and so on. It recently acquired devolved premises in my constituency through the local authority community transfer of assets scheme. In this respect, I commend the work of the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears), who did so much to instigate that scheme. The hon. Member for Harrow West, who is not in his place, talked about the possibility of assets going out on the cheap. Visyon has received a local hall that was not being used to its maximum potential. The local authority has awarded it a contract that will enable those premises to support the development of many other groups across the constituency and their work within the local community. It is not about assets being passed across on the cheap but about a broader, better and more beneficial use of those assets for the whole community.
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington. I feel privileged to have been able to support him on the journey that this Bill has undertaken, and I will continue to do so in future. I look forward to its outworking right across our nation.
Mike Freer
I, too, pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) for getting his Bill this far. I characterise the remarks of the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) in that my business career was in the private sector but I also led one of the larger councils in the country. To be honest, when I first saw the Bill my heart sank, because I shared the prejudices that so many others have had regarding social enterprises. It was only when I started to see the Bill progress and to understand more of what was being done that the scales fell from my eyes and I became a supporter of it. It is better that a sinner repenteth than not change at all, if I may mix that analogy.
Although I support the Bill, I have some concerns that I hope the Minister can deal with. I believe that the definition of “social enterprise” needs to be clarified. As I said in my intervention on the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas), there are many private sector organisations that we may not believe to be social enterprises but of which we could argue that part of their business is to improve the social welfare of the United Kingdom, although we may disagree. That is why unless we specify what is a social enterprise—including types of ownership, not just outcomes—we could end up with a lawyers’ charter as many companies argue that they have a social angle to their enterprise and should therefore qualify.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(13 years, 6 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
The point about pensions is that there is the triple guarantee that they will go up by earnings, prices or 2.5%, whichever is higher, so it is not going to affect them in that way. Clearly, we want to see inflation come down. I think there is a shared agreement across the House, and it is right for the Bank of England to have that responsibility. I notice that the hon. Gentleman does not raise today the very welcome news that we have seen the biggest fall in unemployment in one month’s figures than we have seen at any time in a decade. I think it is time the Labour party started welcoming good news.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
Q5. There is increasing concern within the House and across the country about the hidden suffering of trafficked children—and, indeed, retrafficked children. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is essential for a co-ordinated multi-agency approach right across the country—from borders to local authorities and local police forces, and including the excellent charitable organisations involved in this work—to be promoted urgently?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. I know how hard the all-party group works on this issue and I listen very carefully to what it has to say. One thing that is changing, which I hope will make a difference, is the formation of the National Crime Agency, which I think will bring greater co-ordination to such vital issues.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman is simply wrong about waiting times. I quoted the figures. Waiting times have been broadly stable over the last couple of years—that is a fact.
The key point that I would make to the hon. Gentleman, who is meant to be a moderniser, is that if he wants to see waiting times come down and stay down, the best answer is a system that involves greater choice, and enables patients to choose where they are treated and establish how quickly they can be treated. The hon. Gentleman used to be a moderniser; there is still time to get on board.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
Q15. I am engaged in a consultation with my constituents in east Cheshire on an issue that is of great concern to them: the commercialisation and sexualisation of childhood. As a parent, does my right hon. Friend agree with my constituents that action needs to be taken to find real solutions to this challenging issue, and to give every child the childhood that it deserves?
The Prime Minister
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. As a parent of three little ones, I know that it is incredibly worrying to see what is becoming available in some shops and other places. We are, effectively, asking our children to grow up too early. I think that there is a lot more that we can do, which is why we have asked the chief executive of the Mothers’ Union to conduct an independent review of this vital area. We are looking at a range of specific issues including television, video and other pressures that are put on people, and we expect the report to be published in a few weeks’ time.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(13 years, 9 months ago)
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Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
4. What assessment the Electoral Commission has made of the adequacy of the time available for provision of information to the public on the forthcoming referendum on the alternative vote system for elections to the House of Commons.
Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon)
The Electoral Commission believes that there is sufficient time for it to provide factual information to the public on the alternative vote and first-past-the-post voting systems and for campaigners to put across their arguments effectively. The commission has been preparing for the referendum since the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill was introduced in Parliament last summer.
Fiona Bruce
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his reply. However, in response to an earlier question he indicated that the Electoral Commission will not even designate the yes and no campaigns until the end of March, or thereabouts, leaving only April and five days in May for the campaigns. Is that really long enough?
Mr Streeter
My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. The designation of the yes and no campaigns will happen as soon as possible after 15 March—anyone can bid to become part of those campaigns before then—and in any event by 29 March. The Electoral Commission is confident that the campaign period is adequate for the purpose.
Big Society
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(13 years, 9 months ago)
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Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
I welcome this debate, highlighting as it has the excellent community work done across constituencies that are represented on both sides of the House. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke), who has recently returned to his place, on securing the debate and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Minister who has remained steadfastly in his place throughout the almost six hours of this debate.
I hope that the debate will serve to deter critics of the big society from making political points by wilfully misunderstanding what the big society is all about. Such attitudes denigrate and disrespect those who, day by day, help to make our society worth living in by giving communities a quality of life that would be otherwise unattainable. I use the phrase “quality of life” advisedly. For some years in the recent past, we have increasingly associated quality of life or success or someone’s individual value in our society too closely with material accumulation, social status, fashionable glitz and glamour, brash business attitudes, career ladder climbing and so forth.
Some of those measurements of success are not necessarily bad in and of themselves. If, however, they are used as disproportionate yardsticks of what it means for an individual to be successful and to have value in our society and for us to be a strong, healthy and successful society together, then I suggest that it is time for a robust re-evaluation of what quality of life means. The current debate about the big society across the country offers, if we grasp it, a real opportunity to do so. For that reason, I welcome today’s debate.
Striving to attain today’s so-called aspirational lifestyles, which are held up as exemplars particularly to our young people, sadly all-too-often involves not only disposable material possessions, but also disposable relationships. That poses the often raised question of whether, as a result, we are any happier or more fulfilled as a society today.
High levels of alcohol and drug abuse, self-harm, a lack of self-esteem, relationship breakdown and profound loneliness across every generation provide at least part of the answer to that question.
I believe that somewhere along the way, we have lost something of the essence of the values which really make a society work: values like care, commitment, sharing and a place where every individual is given the opportunity and the capacity to play their part, whatever it may be—a part for which they are uniquely skilled and that only they can play.
Somewhere along the way, too, we may have forgotten that our most basic human need is to be loved and to feel that we matter to someone or, ideally, to a group of people. Linked to that is the need for us to feel that within that group of people, we have a purpose and a role. Is a premier league footballer worth any more or less as a person than, Dave Mairs, who several times a week coaches in the Cheshire boys league and has for years supported, encouraged and cajoled—and sometimes had to discipline—a football team of young boys? I do not think so.
Why do I say all this now? I say it because I believe that the big society holds the key to many of our contemporary challenges. Our understanding of what success means in a strong, healthy and positive society, and the positive contribution that each individual can uniquely bring to it, is, I suggest, largely what the big society is all about.
Oral Answers to Questions
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Tony Baldry
Salmaan Taseer was an incredibly brave man and his death is a tragedy for Pakistan. We would all do well to remember the words of Jinnah, the father of Pakistan, who said in terms that
“you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship”.
What I suspect every Member of this House hopes for is that there shall be freedom of religion throughout the world, and I am sure that, as a Chamber, we will continue to campaign for that wherever we have the opportunity.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
4. What steps the Church Commissioners are taking to help support Christians in Sudan.
Tony Baldry
The Church of England supports the Episcopal Church of Sudan. The dioceses of Bradford and Salisbury have diocesan links to Sudan and have done great work in the region to support the Christian community, as has Christian Aid.
Fiona Bruce
I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. It looks as though there will be a new state of Southern Sudan, but it will face enormous challenges. Meanwhile, Christian minorities in the north of Sudan will face continued persecution, as organisations such as Christian Solidarity Worldwide have highlighted during many years of work across Sudan. Will the Church of England do what it can to support and protect Christians and other minorities in the north of Sudan, while also helping, where appropriate, in Southern Sudan?
Oral Answers to Questions
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Tony Baldry
The CCT is supporting some 340 church buildings, all of which are of considerable historic or architectural interest. We are grateful for the co-sponsoring by the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, on a 30:70 basis. This is an issue that is bigger than just the Church. Some 45% of all grade 1 listed buildings are churches, and those buildings represent an important part of the social history of our nation.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
9. What steps the Church Commissioners are taking to support the work of the Church of England in rural areas.
Tony Baldry
The Church of England has a presence in almost every rural settlement and village in England and plays an important and intricate role in rural community life.
Fiona Bruce
Village congregations play an important part in community life in my constituency. What can the Church Commissioners do to support the widest possible use of church buildings?
Tony Baldry
My hon. Friend raises an important point about the use of church buildings. The cathedral and church buildings division of the archbishops’ council has been working for the last five years to help congregations do everything that they can to work with communities to identify how church buildings can be used creatively to serve the widest community use. We now see extended use of church buildings, including as post offices, shops, libraries, internet cafes, benefit advice centres and citizens advice centres. Wherever possible, we want to see churches as living buildings where as much community activity as possible takes place, and the Church Commissioners will always support such activity.
Public Services (Social Enterprise and Social Value) Bill
Fiona Bruce Excerpts(14 years, 1 month ago)
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Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
It gives me great pleasure to support my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) and his Bill. One of the main features of the debate has been the contribution of social enterprises to our local communities. We must interpret as broadly as possible the organisations that can fall within the ambit of the Bill. My hon. Friend mentioned more socially responsible businesses, and in that regard my view runs counter to that of my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer), who suggested that we should substitute “charity” for “social enterprise”. I suggest the opposite, because far more local businesses are contributing to our communities than has been recognised, certainly by the previous Administration. This is a wonderful opportunity for us to highlight the contribution that those businesses make.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) said, many people are in business not just to make a profit but to contribute to their local communities. Walking down our local high street, we would be hard pressed to find a retailer who was not contributing to the community in one way or another. For example, in my constituency, there is a traditional menswear outfitter called Davenport’s. Members might wonder how Davenport’s could make a social contribution, but it is Davenport’s that donates props and clothing to the Daneside community theatre, which in turn makes a wonderful contribution to community life in Congleton. During the school holidays, dozens if not hundreds of young people who might otherwise be at a loose end spend their time creating theatre shows for the town. That is an excellent example of one small business contributing to the community as a whole and making a positive difference.
It would be wonderful if our town council, with its small budget, had the freedom to place high on its agenda a recognition of the contribution made by businesses such as Davenport’s to our community well-being when it is awarding the relatively modest contracts that can nevertheless make a real difference to the welfare of small businesses, especially at a challenging time on the high street.
I understand the point about the concerns that the Federation of Small Businesses might have about the proposals. Speaking as someone who has run a small business for well over 20 years, I, too, was concerned when I initially looked at the Bill, because I knew that many small businesses operated on the margins—on tiny margins, as I experienced when I set up my business. I declare an interest as someone involved in running a socially responsible business. It took many years before my business made any real profit, but if I had been able to consider even small opportunities for contracts with our local authority, it might have made a difference.
Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con)
Given that the purpose is not to subsidise for-profit enterprises that are operating at the margins, but to encourage businesses or organisations that operate as a business—they may have a turnover and may have a surplus—surely the primary objective should be contribution to the community rather than to the shareholders.
Fiona Bruce
I believe that “community” comprises many different factors, one of which is having flourishing businesses. If the awarding of public contracts can make a difference to flourishing businesses, large or small, that should count as social or public value. It is not, as many people mistakenly claim, about offering public service on the cheap; rather, it is about adding value to our communities.
Like many of my colleagues, I will have knocked on thousands of doors on a political journey. One key theme that came across to me again and again, particularly when I campaigned in a large town during a previous general election campaign, was a yearning for community life. I am fortunate that I now represent a constituency comprising mainly smaller towns where such community life still continues. Government support to businesses that, in turn, contribute to the maintenance and, indeed, the strength of community life will be valuable.
Steve Baker
Does my hon. Friend agree that all enterprise is necessarily social because it seeks to create value for other people?
Fiona Bruce
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, as that is exactly what I am saying. I think that we will find very few organisations that do not merit consideration under the Bill when public contracts are awarded. We should therefore think carefully before narrowing the definition of the enterprises that we want to include.
I would like to highlight some clear examples of where a social enterprise in my constituency has been less well served than it could have been under the current criteria for awarding public contracts. I mention an enterprise called Visyon. It is an excellent organisation in my community; it provides counselling and support for young people who need social or emotional help. Visyon has given me two excellent examples of where it believes it might have benefited if the Bill had been in force. First, it bid for a contract against a private tenderer, but the criteria for the tendering process included such elements as credit checks, the evidence of significant surplus of funds and high net asset value. Visyon says:
“If criteria had… included… social outcomes and values, we may… have… scored more highly based on such criteria.”
It did not succeed in winning the contract. In another case, it bid for the provision of mental health advice and support in schools in the Cheshire region. It gave evidence that it could provide such advice at one third of the cost of its competitor for the tender, the educational psychology team, but it lost that one, too.
I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) is not in her place, because I wanted to pay tribute to the work that she and her local authority did in the north-west region. Salford council in particular worked closely with organisations such as B4Box. I met Aileen McDonnell and also pay tribute to her work. It is worth noting that through her organisation, people who have been unemployed for some time go into work and are sustainably employed. That is to her credit. I look forward to seeing B4Box’s work growing and flourishing across the wider region.
I would also like to highlight the work of the Message Trust. I know that the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles spent some years supporting it, as has Salford council and the police. It is important to remember that when we talk about awarding public contracts, we are not talking only about local councils. The Salford local authority and the police have supported the work of the Message Trust over many years, and it has proved extremely beneficial. I would like to spend a few moments to describe it to hon. Members.
The Eden project, which is run by the Message Trust, organises groups of 10 young people, perhaps in their 20s or 30s, who commit for a period of five years to living in a deprived area and to giving 25 hours a week of their time—most of these people are also working—on the streets, getting alongside young people who are suffering through fractured families, drug problems, lack of self-worth, joblessness and so forth. That helps such people to understand how to engage positively within their communities, perhaps initially through voluntary groups, and subsequently helps them into training and work. It has proved enormously successful over many years.
I endeavoured to engage with another local authority regarding this scheme. I took representatives from the Eden project to meet council officials and I had several meetings and obtained support from local volunteers. I was aware that a recent local authority report had expressed the concern that its youth work was not hitting the mark. Frustratingly, however, it was impossible for that local authority to commit to an Eden project of its own, despite the fact that providing 10 youth workers on the streets cost only about £40,000 a year. That is not much more than the salary of one youth worker—plus add-on costs, overhead and supervisory costs—employed by a local council.
Although some local authorities are connecting well with organisations such as the Eden project, others are still reluctant to alter their mindset and change from an approach that allows them greater control towards one involving more trust, albeit perhaps with an element of risk. The trust might have to associate with organisations with which it has not connected previously or not worked with previously. As I say, it might not have the same degree of control. None the less, if we do not move in this way, we might miss the opportunity to change so many of our particularly deprived communities or those with real need. I believe that the Bill will provide a greatly needed catalyst for a change in the mindset of the many authorities that need to start looking outward rather than inward in deciding how they will provide, contract and procure local services.
Fiona Bruce
May I invite the Minister to meet representatives of the Eden project and the Message Trust? I believe that they have much to offer local communities: indeed, they aspire to engage with up to 60 local communities across the nation.
Mr Hurd
I should be happy to do that. I have written to all Members of Parliament offering them the opportunity to bring in representatives of voluntary community sector organisations in their constituencies. I understand that there is tremendous enthusiasm out there, and that organisations are anxious to understand the big society agenda better and what it could mean for them. The invitation is open to all Members on both sides of the House.
We consider social enterprises to be valuable in terms of making a social impact and our determination to promote enterprise and private-sector growth. We are making it easier to run a social enterprise by establishing a taskforce to reduce bureaucracy and red tape for social enterprises; reducing the small-profits rate of corporation tax to 20% from April 2011; offering a one-year temporary increase in the level of small business rate relief from October 2011; and taking a different approach to regulation by introducing the one-in, one-out rule, whereby we will not introduce any new regulation without abolishing existing regulations with a net cost to business.
Secondly, we are ensuring the resilience of the social enterprise sector by developing a big society bank to help grow the new market of social investment that is seeking to blend financial return with social impact. It is a real market, but also an embryonic one and we want to accelerate its growth. We think the big society bank can be a catalyst for that, such as by making it easier for social enterprises to access the capital they need. That will come on stream in quarter two or quarter three of next year.
As has been said, we have—at a time when there is very little money around—set up a £100 million transition fund to support voluntary community organisations and social enterprises delivering front-line services that stand to be affected in the short term by reductions in spending. We have also included social enterprises in the offer to access a £1.4 billion regional growth fund to invest in projects and programmes with significant potential for growth and employment.
Finally, we are making it easier to do business with the state by opening up markets for social enterprises, as I have discussed. There will be a fundamental reform of public services with an explicit commitment to try to create more space for social enterprises, charities and voluntary organisations to help us deliver better public services.
With the two conditions of our resistance to legislating for strategies both at national and local authority level, we support the Bill’s objectives. We think it is consistent with the big society agenda and our public service reform aims, and with our intention to make it easier for charities, voluntary sector organisations and social enterprises to deliver public services. We think it will help us maximise value for the taxpayer and improve the process of consultation with communities in the shaping of public services. It will support social enterprise, which in itself is a worthy aim. It simply proposes a duty to consider, where relevant and proportionate. It does not compromise autonomy or add additional burdens. It is about trying to turn best practice into standard practice and to deliver the best possible value to taxpayers, and it is on that basis that we are prepared to support the Bill.
Mr Chope
My hon. Friend makes a good point. He is right to emphasise the riskier approach, because sometimes there is a risk. For example, in my constituency, the local council decided to let the contract for the running of the local leisure centre to a charitable trust based in Poole. It became apparent that the trust was not delivering on what was set out in the contract, and after several years the contract had to be taken back in-house. Subsequently, a couple of other projects that the trust was running were found to be financially unsustainable, and that was the end of that, I think. We must not get into a frame of mind in which we think that anything that calls itself a social enterprise is, by definition, a good thing. Such bodies have to be run along business lines.
To take another example, people in Verwood—a town that is no longer in my constituency, sadly, but was until the time of the last general election—have set up a community enterprise called the Verwood Hub, which is a community centre. Unfortunately, it is becoming clear that they have not been applying business principles to the running of that centre, so they are having to go back to the local authority and say, “Please give us some more money.” The local authority is making it clear that it can go only so far in doing that, because there is a limit to how much it can be expected to use local taxpayers’ money to make up for the deficiencies in the business plan of what might otherwise be described as a laudable community enterprise.
Fiona Bruce
We must not let the example of one or two less successful projects restrict the opportunity for the public sector to enter into entrepreneurial projects with local groups. The spirit of enterprise does, of necessity, involve risk. We have seen that spirit in this nation over many decades, if not centuries, and it is the seed of the fruit of phenomenally successful community and commercial organisations. We can look back in the history of this nation at some tremendous businesses that have done social good, so it would be dangerous for us almost to sanitise public procurement, as we have done to a large extent,. It can never be risk-free. Without an element of risk, we will reduce the opportunity for those great potential benefits that have flourished in this nation in years gone by.
Mr Chope
Absolutely, and that is very much the theme behind the submission from the Federation of Small Businesses on the Bill, which a number of hon. Members will have received. It makes the point:
“The Bill describes social enterprises as businesses ‘carried on primarily for a purpose that promotes or improves social or environmental well-being’. While such organisations are undeniably valuable, micro businesses also serve such a function. What sets them apart from social enterprises however is that their primary purpose will be to make a profit and remain in business.”
That is the important part—remaining in business. They cannot do that unless they make a profit, as they are often unable to raise capital. That was the problem with the charitable trust that I mentioned earlier. It was not able to reinvest in the leisure centre, which as a result became rather dowdy and did not meet the needs of the customers.
Fiona Bruce
Staying in business may be the immediate aim of a micro-business, but there is often a greater end to that. The aspiration is that in time, it will be able to become an established small business and make a difference to its community and environment. We have to support and nurture micro-businesses in order for them to make that difference.
Mr Chope
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and we all have examples from our constituencies of businesses that started very small and have become quite large. One such business in my constituency makes organic baby food, and now supplies it to major national retailers. It was based on the idea of an entrepreneur who asked, “Why are we not ensuring that people can guarantee that their children are being fed wholesome baby food at the most nutritionally important time of their life?” That enterprise struck a chord with the consumer, hence its great success. There are a lot of other examples that I will not trouble the House with at the moment.
Mr Chope
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Given time, I am sure that he would develop his argument in relation to north Somerset, as he has so ably on previous Fridays.
Localism is of great importance. When we talk about its importance, we should not be too fussed about whether we are talking about a local small business, a local social enterprise or a local charity. We must not create artificial distinctions.
Fiona Bruce
We must also not differentiate between a business being local and being big. It would be dangerous if we equated local with small. As a member of the all-party group on small business, I was a guest yesterday evening at an event at which one of the “Dragons”, Theo Paphitis, spoke powerfully about the impact of his chain of shops, Ryman. He took the group on when there were about 80 shops, and there are now about 260. He encourages local staff at each store to raise money for local community projects and he then matches it. Does my hon. Friend agree that it would be dangerous if we started defining too narrowly the scope of even the businesses with which we want to engage? Local does not necessarily mean small, although as someone who has run a small local business, I fully emphasise the importance of what small businesses bring to local community life.
Mr Chope
I agree absolutely. There are so many examples. The local community may be dependent on the local post office, but the Post Office is a national organisation with a national network. None the less, it is ever so important that the local branch of that national network in a particular village is maintained and viable. The same is true of the local pub. It does not have to be owned as a freehold by somebody local; it may be part of a national pub chain. That makes no difference to the important role that it will play in helping to maintain the local community. We could go on with lots of other examples.
I turn now to the “residue” of the Bill, and I should tell my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington that I do not mean that disparagingly—perhaps “a distillation of the Bill” would be a better expression. When we get to clause 3, we are left with a duty on local authorities not to do anything, but to consider something. My hon. Friend said that that does not offend against the principles of localism and that it is legitimate for the Government to require local authorities, and thereby councillors, to consider particular things.