Apprenticeship Levy

David Linden Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd November 2023 Westminster Hall

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq, and to follow the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey). I shadowed her when she was Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, but I have to say that I much more enjoy the unchained version of her, offering criticisms of what has happened in Government. As a serious point—and the same might be true of the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May)—there is value in having former Ministers remain in the Commons to offer constructive criticisms of policy, to dwell on their time and to reflect on what they might do differently. It helps to inform the decisions that Ministers take.

I thank the hon. Member for Woke-on-Trent North—not “Stoke-on-Trent”, for the purposes of Hansard, but Woke-on-Trent. I am sure he will love that. He is genuinely a good friend of mine, despite the fact that we have nothing in common. I commend him for securing the debate.

As a former modern apprentice, I must confess to having a very strong interest in the subject. I have long been of the view that in recent years we have perhaps not got the balance right in terms of what we churn out into the labour market. The reality is that if I have a leaking pipe at home, I need a plumber, not an accountant or a lawyer. In this place in particular, I think that there are far too many lawyers and not enough apprentices, but that is a separate story. We have to make that balance a bit better. I certainly did my bit by completing my apprenticeship back in 2008.

We in the SNP hold the belief that an investment in apprenticeships is, in turn, an investment in our young people. That is particularly true for young people in Scotland. I stand here as someone who left the gates of Bannerman High School in Baillieston and went on to carry out an apprenticeship at Glasgow City Council. That has stood me in good stead and has very much helped me to navigate life in my role as a Member of Parliament. According to Skills Development Scotland, as of 30 December last year there were 3,626 modern apprentices in training in Glasgow. The modern apprenticeship achievement rate in Glasgow was last reported as sitting at around 68.6%. However, we are currently in an area where the apprenticeship levy is both reserved and devolved. That presents several challenges to Scottish businesses. I want to reflect on just a couple.

Just over two weeks ago, I was lucky enough to visit a local KFC branch in my constituency of Glasgow East, where, coincidentally, we discussed the impact of the apprenticeship levy on businesses. KFC’s corporate team told me how, like many businesses, they struggle to spend their levy pot because of the many barriers in meeting the UK Government’s definition of an apprenticeship. Those barriers are due to the rigidity of the specified qualifications for completing an apprenticeship: they are too narrow, they are too long or they require too much off-the-job training. I was told that this year alone, KFC has lost a six-figure sum of its levy fund to the Treasury. I would hope that that is not the case for everyone who is subject to the levy, but it certainly paints a picture of what many businesses face. I should add that in the east end of Glasgow, we have four young people employed in KFC’s Glasgow Forge and Glasgow London Road restaurants as a result of its pre-employability programme Hatch, which I commend to the Minister.

Scotland’s share of the annual levy pot is calculated and assigned by the Westminster Government, but Scotland has adopted a slightly different approach—a more relaxed approach, I would argue, whereby Scottish employers can spend the levy on other types of training that they judge to be right for them. As the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) has rightly highlighted, the rigidity of the UK Government’s apprenticeship levy can somewhat hinder employees as a result of the specifications of how levy funds can be spent.

I reiterate to Members across the House that the apprenticeship levy was imposed on Scottish businesses without consultation with the Scottish Government, despite skills and apprenticeships being a devolved matter. Nevertheless, the Government in Edinburgh have tried to use the funds from the levy in ways that I would argue have been more effective in increasing the skills of the workforce in Scotland. That is mostly thanks to the flexible approach that they have adopted after consulting and engaging with Scottish employers, at every step of the process, on how best to use the funds that have been made available from the levy.

In this case, the Scottish Government have been very clear that the share of the levy that Scotland receives through the Barnett consequentials largely replaces money that was already made available to the Scottish Government. That is why the UK Government policies in this area have not achieved what they ought to have achieved in terms of providing new streams of funding to the Scottish Government. As a result, their policies have delivered a reduction in spending on devolved public services by imposing the levy on public sector employers.

That point takes us back to the need for a bit more flexibility. In comparison with England, the Scottish Government have adopted a more flexible approach to how levy funds are used. The options available for using funds include modern apprenticeships, college training, support for skills development and employment-focused training for young people. The Scottish Government’s approach has provided Scottish employers with a greater sense of agency and freedom as to what they can spend the funding on. That begins at the point of consultation, engaging Scottish businesses in that very discussion, whereas the apprenticeship levy in England has failed to increase the number of apprenticeships: there were 145,700 fewer apprenticeship starts in 2021-22 than in 2016-17.

North of the border, our more flexible approach has resulted in the number of apprentices in training in Scotland reaching its highest level ever and surpassing the Scottish Government’s ambitions for modern apprenticeships this year. However, I say to my colleagues in Edinburgh that they can and should go still further; I go back to my point questioning whether we have got the balance right in churning everybody out through university, when in my constituency we cannot get a bricklayer, for example. That makes more of a case for some of the trades.

All of this reiterates the need for the devolution of employment law. Ultimately, in my view—this will come as no surprise to this Chamber or to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon)—it makes the case for the full powers of independence, to allow us to introduce a comprehensive strategy that develops the skills and productivity of the Scottish workforce. The successful use of funds in Scotland, compared perhaps with other parts of the UK, only highlights the benefit of Holyrood having control over skills and apprenticeships.

With control over the ability to set levies, the Scottish Government could and would work to reduce the burden that the apprenticeship levy places on businesses, to which many other Members have referred, and ensure that it works to increase the funds available to businesses to train their workforce in the way that we all know they are asking for. However, while we remain a part of the Union, we will continue to consult the industry to ensure that the funds raised from the levy are used in the best interests of Scottish businesses and Scottish employers, in the exact way that KFC outlined to me just two weeks ago.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Skills, Apprenticeships and Higher Education (Robert Halfon)]

It is an honour to serve under you in the Chair today, Dr Huq. I congratulate my hon. Friend from Woke-on-Trent North; I beg your pardon, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis)—slip of the tongue. He is a passionate advocate of apprenticeships and skills, and he made a very thoughtful speech, as did all my colleagues and everyone here today. I will try to respond to some of the points that hon. Members have raised, but where I do not I will write to them.

I have made it my political life’s mission to champion apprenticeships and skills. My hon. Friend said he employed apprentices, which is a wonderful thing. I was the first MP to employ apprentices in Parliament. I have had many, and one of them has gone on to be the leader of my local council—I think the youngest ever leader in history. That shows the power of apprenticeships.

Let me focus on a few of the things that my hon. Friend said. It is worth noting the increase in starts between 2021 and 2022. In 2022, there were 349,000 starts, which is 8.6% higher than in 2021. I am not saying that we do not have challenges when it comes to the number of starts—Members have spoken about starts—but we have to focus on quality, not just quantity. That has been a problem in the past, especially if I may say so with the party of the shadow spokesman, hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra), although I greatly respect her. Her party had an obsession with 50% of people going to university. That was about quantity rather than quality, and we are trying to give people a choice between university and apprenticeships.

It is also worth knowing that 70% of apprenticeships are at levels 2 and 3, and more than 50% are done by young people. Both my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey)—who was a brilliant Secretary of State, who did a lot to protect the environment and who I massively respect—and my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North talked about modular apprenticeships. I am firm in the belief that we want quality apprenticeships. We want to move away from the pre-2010 past, when many apprenticeships were not seen as high quality. That is why we moved from frameworks to standards. I believe that apprenticeships should be for a minimum of a year, but of course many are over a year—two to three years. They have to be about quality. They are designed by employers. We now have over 680 apprenticeship standards, which are designed by employers with the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. However, there are career starter apprenticeships and short skills courses—bootcamps. My right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal spoke about HGVs, and there are HGV bootcamps. Our multimillion-pound package on bootcamps has been a great success. They are 16 weeks, so people can do them and go on to an apprenticeship or get a job. Many people on bootcamps get good outcomes. They have been a huge success and are an example of the Government investing in skills.

I want to make a point about the levy budget. We have spent 98% of the apprenticeship budget given to us by the Treasury and we give hundreds of millions under the Barnett consequential formula. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon)—I am going to call him my hon. Friend because he is a very kind friend—rightly mentioned Barnett consequentials, as did the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden). We give hundreds of millions from the levy, but I recognise the points made about the devolved authorities. They decide their apprenticeship policies, but I am happy to work with officials to ensure that we work with Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to support them in every possible way to make those policies a success.

My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) —the great FE champion in the House of Commons—asked about the minimum wage. This is really good news, and he is absolutely right. Last year, we increased it by 9%. I am pleased about today’s announcement that we will increase the apprenticeship minimum wage not by 9%, 10%, 11% or 15%, but by 21%, which will benefit an estimated 40,000 apprentices.

My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney talked about levels 4 and 5, as did my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal. It is worth remembering that we have introduced 106 higher technical qualifications at levels 4 and 5 with 140 providers. We are spending £300 million on 21 institutes of technology all over the country. We have a national strategy on apprenticeships and skills. We have the Unit for Future Skills for data. We have the local skills improvement plan, which identifies skills needs in local areas. Only a week or so ago, we announced £165 million to benefit 38 areas in the country. There were over 66,000 starts at levels 4 and 5, which is about 20% of total starts, and 151 standards approved for delivery at levels 4 and 5.

I am excited that we have introduced not only nursing apprenticeships but doctor apprenticeships. The workforce plan puts apprenticeships and skills at the heart of the NHS workforce strategy, with 22% of all training for clinical staff to be delivered through apprenticeship routes by 2031, up from 7% today. We expect that 20% of registered nurses will qualify through the apprenticeship routes by 2028-29 compared with 9% now.

I have been to see policing degree apprenticeships in Manchester and they are second to none, but I will look into what my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal said. I visited Staffordshire University, where many constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North go. It does a brilliant degree apprenticeship policing programme. I know that the quality is second to none, but I will look into the question raised by my right hon. Friend and write to her.

The shadow spokesperson, the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston, was incredibly kind to mention the extra £50 million that we announced today for a two-year pilot to boost high-value apprenticeships in priority growth sectors. The Chancellor mentioned engineering today, but we will set out further details. It is worth noting that we will spend more than £2.7 billion on apprenticeships by 2025. That is a huge whack of money, especially in the current difficult economic climate.

The other point I will make is very important. My right hon. and hon. Friends and Opposition Members talked about businesses not using their levy. When that happens, the levy is used to fund 95% of the training costs for small businesses, which is what my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North wants. We fund 95% of the training costs, and if a business has less than 50 employees and employs somebody aged 16 to 18, we fund all the training costs. That is where the money goes. When big business does not use its levy, we use it to fund training costs.

Given some of the things that have been raised today, it is also worth noting that we give £1,000 to every provider. We give £1,000 to every business that employs an apprentice to help them along the way, and we are trying to slash regulation. I have a phrase that I use in the Department: I call it Operation Machete. I do not like regulation, and there is too much of it. We are doing a huge amount of work in this area. We have significantly reduced regulation for small businesses when they start to employ apprentices. We have also removed the cap on the number of apprentices they can employ. There used to be a cap, which we have changed. I am absolutely determined to do everything we can, but it is important to remember that when big business does not use the levy, the money is used to fund smaller businesses’ training costs.

[David Linden]

I do not necessarily expect the Minister to answer this, but perhaps he could undertake to write to me. Those of us on the Work and Pension Committee are interested in things such as auto-enrolment. I ask the Minister to go away and have a look at why auto-enrolment does not kick in at age 16, when a lot of people are doing apprenticeships. That might be one of the areas where we could look at retention and how we help young people. It is not the Minister’s brief, but I would appreciate it if he could write to me about that.

[Robert Halfon]

I would be very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman, and I respect the thoughtful way he set out his remarks today.

The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston quoted organisations that do not like the levy. I have a whole list of businesses that do like the levy and use it brilliantly. Virgin Atlantic has used the levy extensively.

Kinship Carers

David Linden Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Westminster Hall

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is, as ever, a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ali. It is also a great pleasure to follow my friend, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I have often raised eyebrows back home in my constituency when I have explained that one of my best friends in this place is a Democratic Unionist party MP from Northern Ireland—but less on that, I suspect.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) on securing the debate. It will come as no surprise that this is not one that my party would normally have sent a speaker along to; I do not think it was planning to do so this time, because of the devolved nature of the issue, but I intimated to our Whips Office that I was keen to come along and support the debate, for reasons I will explain in a moment. The hon. Lady was right to talk about some of the support that perhaps was not offered during covid-19. Clearly, arrangements for kinship carers will vary in different parts of the UK, but it would be churlish for any of us to think we managed to support kinship carers properly during the pandemic, in particular. I have seen quite a lot of casework coming through my constituency that shows that the legacy and the impact are still there.

I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne). I have known about the situation with his grandson for quite a while now. I remember when I came to this place in 2017 having been a fresh-faced researcher—I am certainly not fresh-faced anymore, after five years here—and how surprised I was that he was actually a grandfather, because I did not think he was old enough. Hearing him recount some of his story was not only genuinely moving, but a reminder of that.

The hon. Gentleman was absolutely right to talk about the link to poverty. In my constituency, which lazy newspapers such as The Guardian characterise based on things they saw 20 years ago, there is no doubt that there are still challenges, particularly around poverty. Again, it is no coincidence that there is a relationship between poverty and a high number of kinship carers, particularly in the Easterhouse area of my constituency—there is a clear correlation there. He was also spot on to talk about some of the challenges that he and his wife Allison faced, particularly in juggling their work.

One of the immense frustrations I have had, particularly in this Session of Parliament, has been the lack of an employment Bill. We have done some really good stuff through private Members’ Bills—whether on neonatal leave or the allocation of tips—but we are doing a lot of piecemeal stuff in legislation when it comes to supporting people in employment, and particularly those who have different responsibilities. We have not done enough on maternity leave and miscarriage leave, or on the point raised by the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish. I appreciate that employment rights are no longer in the Minister’s domain, although they were at one point, but it would be good if she could take back to her colleagues in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy some of the points about caring responsibilities and how they are juggled.

The main reason I wanted to come to the debate today is based on my five years as a constituency MP, and I have mentioned the high number of kinship carers in my constituency. I am not here to do a sales pitch on behalf of the Scottish Government—according to my colleagues, they get everything right and nothing wrong, which is clearly daft—but I do want to pay tribute to the local organisations in my constituency. I had the pleasure about five years ago of running the marathon to raise money for East End Community Carers, which is in the same building as my constituency office. As my staff and I go in and out doing our surgeries, I never cease to be amazed by a lot of the families that come in—grandparents, aunties and uncles. The hon. Member for Denton and Reddish is absolutely right: these people never expected to be in that position.

When we leave this place and go back to our constituencies, we often say what a hard week it has been, but kinship carers do not have that luxury or the ability to just switch off. There is a much wider conversation that we should have about the provision of respite. Far too often, local authorities think, “That person is a kinship carer. They’re sorted now.” If we reframe how we look at this, we realise that kinship carers, foster carers and many other people are saving the state a hell of a lot of money by stepping in and providing support. That must be recognised by Governments as well.

North of the border, kinship carers get the same allowance as foster carers. The kinship care allowance recognises the importance of kinship care. It is a really difficult thing to do, especially when money is tight, so we need to look at the financial support there.

I want to round off by mentioning another couple of charities. Glasgow North East Carers is led by Jean McInaw up in Easterhouse, an area where there is quite a high number of kinship carers. The final organisation that I want to commend in this place is Geeza Break. For those not well versed in the vernacular of Glaswegian, that is “Give us a break.” Geeza Break has been working for 30 years—this year is its 30th anniversary. It is led by Doreen Paterson, the chief executive, who I am privileged to count not just as a key stakeholder in my constituency but as a real friend. The work that Doreen and her team do all year round supporting kinship carers—last year they supported 428 families—is amazing.

I am sick, tired and fed up with having to write funding support letters for such organisations, when many of them should be a commissioned service. That will not please some of my colleagues back home, but those organisations are doing a tremendous job to support kinship carers, who do an invaluable job. We need to stop putting them up for funding once every year and to perhaps look at using them as a commissioned service.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Linden Excerpts

Monday 18th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

What assessment he has made of the effect of the end of the transition period on (a) further and (b) higher education.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

What assessment he has made of the effect of the end of the transition period on (a) further and (b) higher education.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson)]

We have worked with the sector on the steps it needed to take following the transition period. This included questions around participation in European Union programmes, migration and student support arrangements. We are replacing the European social fund via the UK shared prosperity fund and introducing the new Turing scheme.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Linden [V]]

Under the Horizon 2020 programme, the UK consistently received more money out than it put in. Under the terms of this agreement, the UK is set to receive no more than it contributes. While universities in Scotland were relieved to see a commitment to Horizon Europe in the joint agreement, what additional funding will the Secretary of State make available to ensure that our overall level of research funding is maintained?

[Gavin Williamson]

As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, the Government have been very clear in our commitment to research. The Prime Minister has stated time and time again that our investment in research is absolutely there, ensuring that we deliver Britain as a global scientific superpower. That is why more money has been going into research, and universities will continue to play an incredibly important role in that, but as he will be aware, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy manages the research element that goes into the funding of universities.

Awarding of Qualifications: Role of Ministers

David Linden Excerpts

Wednesday 9th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

Let me be clear from the outset that I want to approach today’s debate with humility above anything else. Put simply, the grading of this year’s pupil qualifications is a plague on all our houses, and I wanted to put that on record in the opening seconds of my speech. I will try to be constructive in my analysis today.

In approaching this debate, it is important to acknowledge that 2020 is not the academic year that any of us could have envisaged. From the talk of possible disruption in February, we quickly moved to a position where schools and universities had to be closed before the full lockdown a few days later. After the initial shock, staff and students swiftly developed different ways of working facilitated by Zoom, Teams and Glow, and that has not been easy. It has brought into sharp focus the issue of digital exclusion, which has been highlighted to me by Derek Smeall, the principal of Glasgow Kelvin College in Easterhouse in my constituency.

Some young people were able to continue their studies, albeit on a different platform, whereas others found themselves cut off from their support systems just at the point when that support was most needed as they prepared for state exams. The decision to cancel the exams was therefore unquestionably the right thing to do, and I think we all agree on that. It was the right thing to do not just because of the health risks to students in physically participating, but because of the massive inequality that would have been built into any exam results as a consequence of the difficulty in accessing the usual teacher support. Unfortunately, actions meant to tackle inequality ended up embedding it, and that has to be acknowledged and apologised for, and that is exactly what has happened in Scotland.

Above all else, tribute should be paid to the young people campaigning for Governments across these islands to see the error of their ways and to U-turn. In Scotland, that campaign was fronted by my Shettleston constituent Erin Bleakley, who goes to St Andrew’s Secondary. She eloquently articulated the anger and dismay of young people with her placard, “Judge my work, not my postcode”.

There is no getting away from it: this has been a summer of confusion and distress for young people across the UK, who found themselves at the mercy of algorithms. However, it is not the use of the algorithm that is ultimately the problem; it is the litany of errors, ignored warnings, failures to act and missed opportunities for the Secretary of State to be proactive.

In April, experts from the Royal Statistical Society offered to help with the modelling. Their offer was refused. At the start of July, the former director general of the Department for Education, Sir Jon Coles, wrote to the Secretary of State, warning that Ofqual’s grading system would lead to unfairness in the system. His concerns were ignored. On 10 July, the Education Committee warned about the algorithm, saying that it risked inaccuracy and bias against young people from disadvantaged backgrounds. Still the irresponsibility continued. That is why we find ourselves debating Labour’s motion on the Order Paper today, which is very specific in its proposed wording.

When Scotland’s young people received their results on 4 August, it quickly became clear that something had gone wrong. Our Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills sat down and listened to the young people affected, yet the Scottish Tories were jumping up and down, calling for his resignation. I remember listening on the radio to the Scottish Conservative education spokesperson demanding that resignation. I look across the Chamber this afternoon, and I see no Scottish Conservatives here. That is why I deliberately started by saying that a bit of humility in this might not have gone amiss.

What happened in Scotland should have been a red flag moment for the Conservatives, and it should have been a warning to the Secretary of State to act, but what happened next left many young people in England in turmoil. As Scotland took decisive action, awarding young people their predicted grades, and crucially announcing new funding for universities to ensure that any young people with the entry grades would secure their place, the Tories remained in denial that there might be a problem with A-level results. When these shockingly inaccurate results were published, the Secretary of State dug himself into a hole by denouncing the actions of the Scottish Government, pontificating about the “unfairness” of taking teachers’ predictions seriously as the basis for results and declaring that there would be no “U-turn, no change”. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister was insisting that

“The exam results…are robust, they’re good, they’re dependable,”

before going on to talk about “mutant algorithms”. To make matters worse, the Secretary of State faffed about with the appeals process, leading to Ofqual revoking the process that it had published only a few hours earlier, leaving school leaders and exam boards utterly bewildered.

Despite what the Secretary of State said in his statement to the House last week, his actions were not immediate. He had both foresight and time on his side and squandered both. At the time of his U-turn on results, university places had been lost. The Schools Minister has maintained that he did not see the algorithm until results day, suggesting that something went wrong with its implementation. What questions were Ministers asking prior to the publication of results? Did anyone ask for a trial run of the algorithm? This is a pattern that keeps repeating itself with this irresponsible Tory Government: first, pretend the problem does not exist, then brush away the scrutiny, then make the wrong decision and then blame somebody else.

Can the Secretary of State tell the House how many young people who missed their first choice of university because of the now discredited approach to awarding grades have now been given places? Now more than ever, what has happened calls into question why young people should be paying £9,000 in tuition fees and saddling themselves with an average debt of £50,000. They are due some breaks, and if the Government were serious about their futures, the Secretary of State would be looking at that.

But of course, universities are dealing with much more than just this carry-on. A combination of the covid restrictions and the ongoing hostile immigration environment means that universities are preparing for an unprecedented drop in international students of up to 70%, which will punch a massive hole in the finances of our institutions. Indeed, Universities UK estimates that the shortfall could be close to £7 billion. At a time when universities are facing the loss of Horizon Europe collaborations and funding, the Secretary of State should be acting to protect the very institutions that will help to kickstart the economy. It would therefore be helpful to know what assessment he has made of the impact on universities and what discussions he has had with the Treasury about providing those institutions with additional financial support.

Universities are ready to support these young people, but as well as increased financial support, they need a fresh look at immigration. In Scotland, we have been clear about the need to extend the post-study work visa. It is incredible that, at a time when we most need talented graduates to be economically active, we have not brought post-study visas forward for our 2020 graduates. What is needed now is clear action to ensure that, whether or not we have another year of covid disruption, young people are not the victims.

As well as the steps highlighted earlier, the Scottish Government have gone further. In order to learn lessons and plan for next year, the Cabinet Secretary for Education in Scotland has asked Professor Mark Priestley of Stirling University to carry out an independent review of the events following the cancellation of the examination diet and to make representations for the coming year.

[John Redwood]

Can the hon. Gentleman give the House an update on the summer term in Scotland? How many pupils had the benefit of a full timetable of teaching digitally?

[David Linden]

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s intervention. What happened in Scotland is perfectly on the record, but we have been back since the middle of August. Children are back in schools, learning. I have been in those schools and seen that for myself, and it seems to be going relatively well, although no doubt there have been hiccups. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, with humility, this is a process that we are all feeling our way through. If that humility was reflected by the right hon. Gentleman and the Government, that might be helpful.

The OECD’s ongoing independent review of the curriculum for excellence will be asked to include recommendations on how to transform Scotland’s approach to assessment and qualifications, based on global best practice.

In conclusion, young people have been extremely poorly served over the summer. We know that the Secretary of State hates to follow Scotland’s example on anything, but he must now ensure that his actions are not ostrich-like, and instead be proactive to ensure that young people have the best possible experience over the next few years, because—to finish with an education metaphor—those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We now come to the Back-Bench element of the debate, in which there will be a three-minute limit.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Linden Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important case in her constituency. Uppingham Community College is actually covered by risk protection arrangements, and I know that officials in my Department are working closely with it to see what is needed in order to ensure that there is provision. I know that Baroness Berridge would be delighted to meet with my hon. Friend to discuss in more detail some of the particular issues that she faces in Rutland and how we can best support her and, most importantly, the provision of education in her constituency.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

In Scotland, there is provision for the youngest children in the year group, including those born prematurely, to defer their school start. Some of them will fall into the wrong group because of their early birth, and I cannot believe that there is less flexibility for that in England. Will the Secretary of State agree to meet a delegation from the all-party parliamentary group on premature and sick babies to look at how we can support those families going forward?

[Gavin Williamson]

I would be more than happy to meet with such a delegation, and I know from my own experience of having a child who arrived prematurely some of the challenges that can come about. I would be very interested to listen and to see what more can be done to provide support in the future.

Education Settings: Wider Opening

David Linden Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

My hon. Friend and neighbour is correct about how we support these students. As I keep saying, there is no magic, simple solution whereby we can put something in place for a short period. This has to be done over a long period—how we support their learning and how we close the gap to make sure that children, whatever background they come from, have the maximum number of opportunities as they go through the school system, and especially as they face exams in the near future.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

Long before the coronavirus pandemic, Glasgow City Council had an ambitious programme in place to tackle holiday hunger. Why can children in Shettleston in my constituency be fed during the summer holidays whereas those in the South Staffordshire constituency that the Secretary of State represents will not be under his plan?

[Gavin Williamson]

As I have said, not only through the Department for Work and Pensions but MHCLG and DEFRA, we continue to look at how we can support the families who are most vulnerable and most in need of support.

Education and Local Government

David Linden Excerpts

Tuesday 14th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Carol Monaghan]

Yes, absolutely. We have had these generous promises of money to match European funds. I would like to see us continuing in Horizon 2020 or the next version of it. That would be the best way. I am concerned about the funding, because it is important for any research group or higher education institution. However, this is not just about the funding; it is about the collaboration. When we start removing European funding, we also remove the infrastructure around rich collaborations that have been going on for many decades. Also, EU staff account for about 11% of our staff in Scotland, but they are still not sure what their position is.

A recent report from the Royal Society has shown that the UK’s share of EU funding has fallen by €500 million since 2015. There has also been a drop of 40% in UK applications to Horizon 2020. We are still in it just now, but we have had that drop because people do not have any certainty. The UK is now seen as a less attractive place to come and do research, with 35% fewer scientists coming to the UK through key schemes. That is of concern, as is Erasmus and what Brexit will mean for that programme. We know about the benefits of young people coming here on Erasmus and of our young people managing to travel throughout Europe on Erasmus. They are young people for whom this opportunity would not historically have been available, and it will potentially not be available again. It would be useful if the Minister could confirm whether it is the Government’s intention for us to continue to associate with Erasmus and whether we are going to pay into it.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

When the Secretary of State opened the debate, he spoke about the importance of Erasmus, but does my hon. Friend find the Government’s warm words about Erasmus bizarre, given that they voted against the amendment to the Brexit legislation last week that would have committed them to working with Erasmus?

[Carol Monaghan]

Yes, and we are talking about very little money. It really is a small amount of money that would allow our continued participation and that valuable and rich experience for young people to continue, so this makes absolutely no sense to us.

I have yet to see any evidence, in the few years that I have been a Member of this Parliament, of this Government really considering education to be a societal good. We saw the abandonment of the nursing bursary. Obviously, we then had a drop in applications. The Government then partially went back on that, but nurses will still have to pay them £9,000-odd a year, regardless of the nursing bursary, so I am not seeing that.

The Secretary of State also talked of collaboration and the sharing of best practice between Scotland and England. That is brilliant. I am really pleased to hear that, and I hope that he is going to match our per-pupil funding, our teacher-pupil ratio, our teachers’ pay, including for teachers in academies, and our commitment to further and higher education. I also hope that, rather than giving young people debt through fees of £9,000-odd or £7,000 a year, this Government will look at abandoning tuition fees altogether. Let us look to best practice: look to Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) has already focused on the education aspect of the Queen’s Speech, so I will seek to confine my remarks today largely to housing, communities and local government. Before I touch on that, I do, somewhat unusually for an Opposition Member, want to welcome one aspect of the Queen’s Speech, which is very close to my heart. Hon. Members will be aware that I campaigned heavily in the last Parliament for greater parental leave for the parents of premature and sick babies, not least because my own two children had extended stays in neonatal care. So I am genuinely delighted to see a commitment in the Queen’s Speech to bring forward an employment Bill with provision for

“extended leave for neonatal care”.

The ministerial team at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy know how often I have been battering on about this, and I look forward to working with Ministers when the employment Bill is published to make sure that we truly help those families who have babies in neonatal care.

I want to turn now to aspects of the Queen’s Speech relating to the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government. I understand that three specific Bills fall under its remit, including the building safety Bill and the fire safety Bill, which have come about following the tragic events at Grenfell Tower in the summer of 2017. These, of course, are about largely devolved matters, and the Scottish Government have already taken prompt action on building regulations, including introducing new regulations that make Scotland’s high-rise buildings even safer. That is particularly pertinent to my constituency, where we have high-rise blocks in Parkhead, Sandyhills and Cranhill. Many of the measures announced in these Bills are to be welcomed, and I commit the Scottish National party to working constructively during the passage of that legislation.

On the issue of fire safety specifically, I want to welcome yesterday’s news that the Government will finally be bringing forward delegated legislation to introduce five-yearly electrical safety checks in the English private sector, effective from April this year. Scotland introduced electrical safety checks first, back in 2015, following an effective campaign from Electrical Safety First, a charity that I very much commend. However, I say gently to Ministers that it is disappointing that the duty in England will not include the regular testing of many portable appliances supplied with lets, something that already happens in Scotland.

I turn now to housing more broadly. We look forward to seeing the details of the new renters’ reform Bill; I have no doubt that the Government will be playing catch-up with the Private Housing (Tenancies) (Scotland) Act 2016, which came into force in 2017. That Act enshrines in law further protection for tenants, as well as security and clarity around the issue of rent increases.

We note there are proposals to bring forward a social housing White Paper about the supply of social homes, but as I said yesterday to the Minister for Housing, the right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey), the British Government will not make a dent in solving the housing crisis if they remain shackled to the ideological plaything that is the failed right-to-buy scheme.

I turn briefly to local government. It would be remiss of me not to put on record the incredibly difficult position in which Her Majesty’s Government has placed the Scottish Government, alongside Scotland’s 32 local authorities. The hugely delayed UK Budget means that the Scottish Government, and therefore our local authorities, are having to set an almost blind budget, which helps no one. To add insult to injury, Scottish Ministers only found out about the UK Government’s 11 March Budget on the same day last week as the media; that is hugely unhelpful. The 11 March date is significant because it is the legal deadline by which Scottish councils must set local tax rates. However, we are where are we; it would be deeply disappointing if we ended up in this situation next year.

Finally, I refer to the proposed UK shared prosperity fund, which was trumpeted to much fanfare but receives little reference in the Queen’s Speech. Media speculation thus far, which is all we can really go on at the moment, suggests that the fund will be used by the Government to splurge and to try to shore up some of the new Tory seats gained from Labour in the north of England. I gently say to the Minister and the British Government that we will be fighting tooth and nail to ensure that Scotland gets its fair share of funding from the shared prosperity fund. It is high time that the British Government outline a way forward as they have been scant on the details so far.

Perhaps it is the constitutional distraction of Brexit that means that this Government are playing catch-up with Scotland on domestic policy so often. I do not know. I do know that I look forward to the coming parliamentary term, and ensuring that the SNP holds the British Government to account and makes sure that they get on with the day job, rather than obsessing about Brexit, bonging Big Ben and narrow nationalism.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Blomfield]

My hon. Friend makes a really important point. That was one of the issues that we discussed with the Schools Minister and about which the headteachers from Sheffield felt passionately. I had a sense from many of the speeches on both sides of the House that there is a recognition that the Government’s proposals for special needs additional funding will fall well short of what is needed, and I hope that Ministers will pay full regard to that.

The students I spoke to also had concerns that went beyond funding and on to the content of their education. They wanted to see more time spent on citizenship education and on teaching life skills. I hope that Ministers will reflect on their concerns and ask themselves whether the straitjacket of the national curriculum, linked to the focus of Ofsted and the funding constraints on our schools that reduce diversity of subject choice, is enabling them to provide the rounded education and preparation that our young people want for the increasingly challenging world that they face.

There is nothing in the Queen’s Speech on young people’s mental health, but it was a significant concern for the students I talked to. The growth in mental health problems among young people is one of the most worrying issues that I have seen over my nine years in this place. We know that there is a crisis. Students talk to me about the difficulties in accessing support and about the long wait between going to their GP and getting their first appointment with child and adolescent mental health services. A YoungMinds report recently said that 75% of parents saw the mental health of their children deteriorate significantly during that period.

The students had a very helpful suggestion on how the Government could take a modest step towards tackling this area by providing a counsellor in every secondary school funded separately and additionally to the money that the schools currently get. That could make a difference by providing crucial early intervention and by reducing the pressure on school budgets; headteachers are already diverting money intended for teaching to address the crisis in mental health.

I see that you are urging me to wind up, Mr Speaker. I had been given the indication by Mr Deputy Speaker that some time was to be welcomed.

[David Linden]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the important need to ensure that we tackle mental health issues in young people. Does he, like me, welcome the investment from the Scottish Government, which will see 250 new mental health counsellors going into schools, to ensure that we tackle this early on in the process and support young people with mental health issues?

[Paul Blomfield]

All resources diverted to mental health will be welcomed, and on that point, I am happy to conclude.

Children’s Future Food Inquiry

David Linden Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Westminster Hall

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) on securing and opening the debate. She set the tone for a thoughtful discussion. I pay tribute to all of those who served on the inquiry, which has produced an excellent report with many worthy recommendations.

Food poverty and food provision are topical, and I want to bring a few reflections from my constituency to the debate. I want to touch on a number of issues relating to providing free school meals, tackling holiday hunger, providing breakfast clubs and promoting breastfeeding.

I was heartened to hear the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) promoting breastfeeding, in the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), who does a huge amount of work on the issue, although she cannot be here due to Committee commitments. I want to help fly the flag for breastfeeding. When we are having a conversation about infant and child nutrition, we need to think about breastfeeding. It is important that it is on the agenda, but there was no mention of it in the obesity strategy published in 2016.

The report rightly points out that the first 1,000 days of a child’s development, from conception to their second birthday, are critical. We know, because the science tells us, that breastfeeding is second to none in terms of protecting a baby’s short-term and long-term health. Yet, as the hon. Gentleman said, our breastfeeding rates are stubbornly low, and many people are not breastfeeding up to two years, in line with World Health Organisation guidelines. However, I do not want to be despondent on that point, because we have some truly dedicated health professionals in my constituency, such as Christine Walker and Lesley Davidson, who are doing some outstanding work to promote breastfeeding and help mentor peer-support volunteers alongside colleagues in the Breastfeeding Network.

I absolutely agree with the report’s point about the loose regulation and legislation concerning formula companies, which have been allowed to ride roughshod when it comes to advertising and promotion. In the previous Parliament, my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central introduced an excellent Bill that sought to rein in some of these outlandish claims made by the formula industry. The Minister would do well to look at that.

Let me turn to diet and the provision of fruit and vegetables. On bank holiday Monday, I was enjoying a picnic in the park with my wife and kids and reflecting on aspects of my own childhood. One of my most vivid memories from primary school—admittedly, that was only in the 1990s—was of the first time I saw a real pineapple. I was the son of a single parent, living in a deprived community, and fruit and vegetables were seen as a luxury or too expensive. In many respects, they still are. The report references testimony saying:

“I’ll choose something that I know they’re gonna like because I can’t afford to do something and for them not to eat it.”

I remember that day in primary school when my teacher, very much off her own back, brought in some fresh fruit for my class to try. I recall being fascinated by these exotic fruits: kiwis and pineapples. For some reason, the pineapple blew my mind—because until then I genuinely thought it just came from tins. I was in primary 4 in Glasgow, and I had never seen a pineapple before.

I say that because I was recounting the story to my wife and son on Monday. We make a conscious effort to promote fruit and vegetables with my son, who, I am delighted to say, always chooses fruit over chocolate. In many respects, we are able to do that because we are a higher-income family, and I am conscious that many families see buying fruit and vegetables as an expense that they do not want.

Parents are able to have only so much influence when it comes to the provision of food—the report makes that point—so let me turn to the provision of meals in the education environment, where we have made some progress but we have got further to go. Thankfully, free school meals have moved from the stigmatised dinner tickets being handed out at the front of the class to the less well-off kids and are moving towards universal provision. In my class, the vast majority of us were getting free school meal tickets, but it must be welcomed that we are moving away from that and to universal provision.

In Glasgow, the city council has committed to ensuring free school meals for all primary school pupils by the end of this council term, which demonstrates an ambition to provide warm, nutritious school meals to every child regardless of their background. Likewise, my own son, Isaac, attends a Glasgow City Council nursery, where, until recently, there was a small charge for lunches. However, those have been abolished, which is good news for family budgets and ensuring equality in the early years. That point is made in the report.

I am glad that our ambition is not restricted to school or nursery meals, because we have recognised that holiday hunger is a major issue, too. The roll-out of Glasgow’s £2 million holiday hunger programme has been hugely successful in meeting the demand for food provision and in bringing together partners to run community activities during the school holidays. Last summer, my church, Parkhead Nazarene, ran an incredibly successful programme of activities called Parkhead summer connections, providing warm, nutritious meals for families in some of the worst SIMD—Scottish index of multiple deprivation—areas in the country.

I am conscious of time constraints, but I want to touch on one other issue, which relates to breakfast clubs and how they tie into the education system. I was recently delighted to welcome a group of children from Quarry Brae Primary School in the east end, who were in Westminster to receive an award from Kellogg’s for the best breakfast club in Scotland. More than 40 children attend Quarry Brae’s breakfast club every morning, which makes a massive impact in ensuring that our young people are at school with a full stomach and ready to learn. Likewise, at Oakwood Primary School in Easterhouse, the headteacher, Vanessa Thomson, absolutely gets this, too. Working with local partners, she has ensured that free toast is available before the school day starts to help ensure that kids, many of whom live in a high SIMD area, are getting some form of nutrition before the start of the school day.

There is a lot more I want to say, but I was keen to offer a view from Glasgow’s east end, where we know we have so much more to do. I finish by quoting Aaron Ross, aged 20, from Easterhouse, whose words are in the report. He told the inquiry:

“People struggle to afford to pay rent and buy food for their families and themselves. Most people don’t want to ask for help as they are too ashamed or embarrassed about the issue. I want to be a part of this project to bring awareness to the rising issue of food poverty, and to help by providing better support to those in need.”

Aaron and many others have given of their time, opinions and experience, and it falls to us to ensure that the report’s recommendations are acted on and that we deliver.

Free Childcare: Costs and Benefits

David Linden Excerpts

Tuesday 19th February 2019 Westminster Hall

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, as always, Mr Davies, and I thank you for your forbearance, as I did not intend to sum up the debate, hence I am sat next to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) in our usual season ticket seats. I extend my sincere congratulations to the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) on securing the debate and, on behalf of my party, I wish him all the best for the impending arrival of his next child.

It has been an excellent debate. The hon. Gentleman gave a thorough speech and spoke about some of the economic arguments—that more people in work means more people paying tax and increased productivity. I certainly agree. He also challenged some of the gender inequality, which I thought was a powerful point. The hon. Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) has a strong track record of speaking in debates on family issues. He spoke powerfully about early intervention, which I definitely agree with. He also spoke about the need to pay nursery staff better and about some of the impacts of current pay rates, such as the high level of staff turnover. I shall come on to my experience of that.

The hon. Member for Strangford spoke about his experience of employing six staff, five of whom are women, and the need for employers to be flexible. He has obviously grasped that as an employer. We, as Members, are all employers, and we know that it is better for staff productivity if we can be flexible. He also spoke about the mysterious Strangford speechwriter, who I think will be the only person furious that this week’s recess was cancelled because it means their having to write more speeches for the hon. Gentleman as he continues with his impressive speaking record.

The hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) spoke powerfully about his experience, particularly in the Bill Committee. He gave a fair critique of the Government’s policy and particularly the link to the gig economy—an additional dimension to the debate that I do not think anyone else raised. He, too, hammered home the need to pay nursery staff better; I want to come to that later. He also spoke powerfully about something that I see in my own case load—the need to support in particular parents of disabled children. I would like to hear the Minister refer to that point when he winds up the debate.

Lastly, the hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) spoke about childcare for people attending job interviews and some of the social costs associated with childcare. She also spoke about her experience of seeing how things in the Netherlands work, particularly the equality between men and women. That is another issue that I want to come to. Finally, she spoke about some of the challenges experienced by lone parents.

At the outset of my remarks, I should probably, like the hon. Member for Bristol North West, declare a personal interest, in that I am already a beneficiary of free childcare for my son, Isaac, who since August last year has been part of Glasgow City Council’s expansion of nursery provision.

I want to break my remarks into three sections. First, I want to give the context of what we are doing in Scotland to try to revolutionise childcare. We have heard from Northern Ireland, Wales and England, so to complete the set, I will speak about Scotland. Secondly, I want to talk about some of the data picked up by CHANGE—Childcare and Nurture Glasgow East—which is a lottery-funded project in my constituency. Finally, I want to touch on one or two of the key challenges in this policy area.

The hon. Member for Bristol North West very eloquently set out the situation in the context of England, so I thought that it might be helpful if I set the scene in Scotland. The Scottish Government are pressing on with the implementation of their commitment to double the entitlement to funded early education and childcare for eligible two-year-olds and for all three and four-year-olds, taking that up to 1,140 hours by August 2020.

My own son, who attends a Scottish Gaelic-medium nursery, is already at nursery from 8 am to 1 pm five days a week, and my wife and I have greatly valued the flexibility that the current system allows us. As parents, we were able to decide whether we wanted him to attend for five half-days or whether it might be better to block-book two and a half days a week. In the end, because of my role as an MP and hers as a teacher, we decided that it would be best to spread the care over five days, but it was good to have that choice, which meant that we could tailor the care to our needs as a family. It is estimated that, in essence, the current investment in early learning and childcare is saving each family approximately £4,500 per child each year. That is certainly good news for families in my constituency of Glasgow East.

Having set the scene, I want to turn to some work that has been undertaken by an organisation doing work in my constituency and funded by the Big Lottery Fund. In a debate such as this, it is important that we look at the challenges, as well as the opportunities, that the provision-of-childcare policy will provoke. Although we have the ambitions that have been stated, there are also challenges, as I think we would all accept.

First, I know from my own constituency casework and the data collected by CHANGE that there are still challenges with nursery provision for children aged from zero to two. Fundamentally, fewer places are available and waiting lists are much more common. In the Parkhead area of my constituency, there are some outstanding nurseries, but there are serious supply and demand issues, on which I am currently lobbying Glasgow City Council; I hope that we might see action before long. When I met Anthony O’Malley from CHANGE, I was concerned to learn about the limited availability of childminders in my constituency, and it is now down to single figures. Certainly when I was a child growing up in the east end of Glasgow in the 1990s—I feel a bit strange talking about growing up when it was not that long ago—childminding was much more prevalent. We ought to be asking ourselves why the provision of that hugely beneficial service has declined in such a short time.

Secondly, childcare providers and families told the project that there is a need for more out-of-school care places in the area, especially in and around Parkhead. Perhaps an unintended consequence of the offer of extended nursery provision, coupled with the very well deserved increase in pay for child development officers in Scotland, is the concern that after or out-of-school care services may see an exodus of staff who see working in the nursery sector as a bit more attractive.

That brings me rather nicely to the final point that I wanted to touch on during the debate. It concerns general workforce and recruitment challenges for the expansion of early years provision. As a result of the ambitious plans to increase the offer of free childcare, we clearly need to recruit more child development officers.

Four or five months after I was elected, I attended a Scottish Government event at Tower View nursery in the Craigend area of my constituency. The event was a media launch of the campaign to recruit up to 11,000 additional staff to meet increased early years provision. One thing that struck me that day as I was going round carving pumpkins and meeting all the lovely children was the fact that we are still not getting it right in terms of seeing more men working in the sector; we perhaps need to do a little more to attract men to work in the nursery sector. Clearly, the debate around early years provision has moved more towards nurture, but I am not sure we are getting the balance right. I make that point as an observation and ask the people reflecting on these proceedings to consider that, because in Scotland only about 4% of the workforce in early years daycare provision is male. As we look to inspire children, we should look at role models, and perhaps we are not getting it right when 96% of the workforce is female.

I will finish where I started by talking about my own son’s experience. I want to say a massive thank you to all of the staff at his nursery who go the extra mile every single day and have a massive and hugely positive impact in shaping our little boy and how he perceives the world. We would all agree that that is a noble and rewarding profession, and I hope that many more people consider it as a career in the future.

Free School Meals/Pupil Premium: Eligibility

David Linden Excerpts

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Westminster Hall

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

I commend the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on securing the debate. It is a great shame that a significant number of people who wanted to contribute for longer than a couple of minutes could not. I encourage the hon. Lady to take the matter forward so that the debate can be continued under the auspices of the Backbench Business Committee, because it is clearly an important topic. As I intimated to you, Mr Hollobone, I will speak for only three minutes, as I wanted to reduce my time to allow others to get in earlier on.

I welcome the Minister and wish him well as he takes on his new role in the Department. Summing up, we have had excellent speeches from the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and the hon. Members for Manchester, Gorton (Afzal Khan), for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart), for High Peak (Ruth George), for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd), for St Helens South and Whiston (Ms Rimmer), for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) and for Bedford (Mohammad Yasin).

As probably the youngest Member currently in the Chamber, when I saw that the debate was on free school meals it conjured up images of the mince and tatties and the custard that we had at Milncroft Primary in Glasgow. I should declare an interest, as I am married to a teacher, so I have first-hand experience of my wife coming home and telling me about the importance of free school meals and breakfast clubs. I pay tribute to my colleague on Glasgow City Council, Councillor Norman MacLeod, who has passionately argued for free school meals, and I echo what the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West said in that regard.

Before touching on a couple of things relating to Scotland—I know at this stage hon. Members normally groan, but unfortunately the third party summing-up rights mean that we have to take part in these debates, which is why I will try to keep my remarks brief—I will touch on three particular issues. The hon. Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan) made the point about money, and I think the same point was made by the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately). I took part in last night’s debate about the orders introduced by the Government, particularly on social security and pensions. In my time in the House I have already seen the Government pursue a benefits freeze, the 1% public sector pay cap, the barbaric rape clause and the medieval two-child policy. A number of hon. Members in today’s debate made the point that we should be looking after people on the lowest rungs of society, and the most vulnerable in society.

I am conscious of time, but I want to draw attention to the fact that in Scotland, with cross-party support, we have introduced legislation that enshrines a target for reducing child poverty by 2030. would like to see this Government do that as well.

I say to the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West to keep going on with this. It has been a good debate, but we need cross-party consensus. Today is the beginning of that, not the end.