Class 4 National Insurance Contributions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

Yes. First we will respond to Matthew Taylor’s report, which looks more widely at employment rights in a rapidly changing economy. We will look at parental benefits, which are the principal area where there is still a discrepancy in what is available for the self-employed and the employed. There are other relatively minor areas, but we will look at all of them and seek to, as it were, audit the differences in treatment between the employed and self-employed. The House and people outside will then be able to see in the round the difference in access to benefits and entitlements and the difference in contributions, and form a judgment about how we should move forward.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Just so that I do not have to wait 30 years to read the minutes of the Cabinet meeting, will the Chancellor confirm that the decision last week was the unanimous decision of the Cabinet? As he is seeking savings to fill the £2 billion hole, will he start with the £320 million towards free schools that he announced last week?

[Mr Hammond]

I am sorry to disappoint the right hon. Gentleman, but he will have to wait 30 years. I am not about to tell him what happened in the Cabinet, but he will know that all decisions are the unanimous decisions of the Cabinet.

Commercial Financial Dispute Resolution Platform

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Henley (John Howell), a fellow member of the Justice Committee and chair of the all-party group on alternative dispute resolution, of which I am a member. I welcome his contribution, and the motion in the name of the hon. Member for East Lothian (George Kerevan), to which I was pleased to add my name, as a Labour MP; I support its objectives on a cross-party basis.

The issue is of great importance, and the Minister has a duty to the House to respond in a positive way to the very straightforward demand made by Members today—a demand that we establish a universal mechanism that allows businesses and others in non-regulated sectors an appeals mechanism, so that they can have an independent review of their situation. The motion is important, and I support it. The demands are clear, and have not come out of the blue. The motion clearly refers to the statement made by Andrew Bailey of the Financial Conduct Authority to the Treasury Committee on 20 July 2016. He said that we needed to look at the fact that

“the ad hoc creation of a compensation scheme within the FCA”

had not worked, and that there was no mechanism in place for many businesses—Members will no doubt mention them today—to find a resolution. Remember, these are small businesses facing big banks that have the time, money, expertise and often patience to try to see out the complaints being made. The motion, which calls for an effective, sustainable platform for resolving commercial financial disputes, is therefore absolutely right and timely.

Although many financial firms may be regulated, business and commercial banking remains an unregulated activity in the UK. Businesses do not have the same level of protection as consumers; they have to rely on internal complaints procedures and on the Financial Ombudsman Service, which may not be well equipped to deal with some of these cases. Businesses have to consider the potential for expensive, protracted activity through the courts. All of this effectively militates against fairness when opportunities have been denied or wrongs done.

I am particularly concerned about the Royal Bank of Scotland, which remains in public ownership. We taxpayers still endorse and act on behalf of the bank. The Minister has to look at not just the complaints procedure proposed by the hon. Member for East Lothian on behalf of the all-party group on fair business banking, but the Government’s responsibility, on behalf of every taxpayer, for the services provided by, and the attitudes and responses of, a bank that remains owned by me, my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) on the Front Bench and every Member of this House.

This matters because over 12,000 companies were pushed into RBS’s controversial turnaround division, called the Global Restructuring Group. We are talking about real pressures and real actions affecting real businesses, and the bank having acted unfairly. Indeed, it has now recognised that it acted unfairly and has provided a compensation scheme of its own, but there is no independent scrutiny of it, and not necessarily any independent endorsement of it yet, because as the hon. Member for East Lothian said, this has not yet been finalised. RBS has a major commitment to those 12,000 businesses.

This also matters because of cases such as that of my constituent Clive May of Mold in Flintshire, north Wales. With his permission, I will detail his case. He experienced at first hand the actions of RBS in relation to the Government-sponsored enterprise finance guarantee scheme. Mr May was the owner of a successful business employing 100 people in north Wales. It was a construction company, building houses and factories. The company had banked with RBS for many years when Mr May was approached by RBS and asked to take up the EFG scheme, which was designed by the Labour Government to support the growth—not the closing down—of businesses through the difficult times of the recession between 2008 and 2010.

Mr May believed that the enterprise finance guarantee scheme would support the expansion of his business. He was informed that his overdraft, for which he had always met his responsibilities, and which was not excessive, as he could meet the liabilities, was to be taken over by the EFG scheme, and that his business’s cash flow would therefore be protected and developed. That was a falsehood on the part of RBS, because the moment he took up the EFG scheme, RBS placed the company in its distressed department and cut his overdraft.

[Norman Lamb]

It has been a pleasure to work with the right hon. Gentleman on what I regard as a scandal. Surely he is making the incredibly serious allegation that not only was an individual destroyed, but there was misuse of public money.

[Mr Hanson]

Absolutely, and I make that allegation here today. RBS has acted appallingly in its treatment of my constituent. Before Mr May took up the EFG, his business was making new contracts, had excellent cash flow, and never once went over its agreed overdraft limit. The moment Mr May took part in the EFG scheme, RBS took from the Government the money underpinning that overdraft, closed down his overdraft and ruined his business. That is important because Mr May exemplifies the small business facing the big bank. He and his wife Kerry have spent four years arguing this case—along with me as their Member of Parliament—having meetings with RBS, and looking at court cases, and now at criminal activity, which has been reported to North Wales police, because there are allegations of fraud. That is also being looked at by the Crown Prosecution Service, which is reviewing the case. All of that is because of concerns about how RBS has acted, but there is no mechanism to drag this case forward apart from Mr May’s personal determination and will to hold RBS to account. The Financial Services Authority cannot do that; he has to have the will himself, with the support of his family and his MP. That is not acceptable.

That is why I support the proposal of the hon. Member for East Lothian. Mr May’s business and similar businesses need this mechanism to ensure that they get fairness when they face banks such as RBS, which is in public ownership, that treat them with disdain.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Simon Kirby)]

I thank the hon. Member for East Lothian (George Kerevan) for securing this debate and, to be fair, for his very thoughtful and measured speech. We certainly acknowledge the importance of the issues that have been raised today.

As a former businessman, I have a great deal of sympathy with all the businesses that have been mentioned and, indeed, all the other businesses that have been treated unfairly. As has been clearly shown by the speeches today, we all care about the businesses that form the backbone of our economy. We should never forget that businesses are more than just numbers; they are people, families, employees, customers and local communities.

This Government have a very strong record of supporting large and small companies, including through our competitive tax regime and our investment in skills, research and infrastructure. Clearly, one way that businesses are able to grow and develop is through having access to finance, so we all want financial services providers to lend to our businesses and to act in the strictest accordance with the FCA’s rules. Wherever that is not the case, any affected business should be compensated appropriately.

We have already heard about the avenues that exist for SMEs in dealing with their banks—from the Financial Ombudsman Service to the FCA’s powers to require firms to establish redress schemes—but it is right to look at the interactions of small businesses with financial services providers to ensure that their dealings are fair and effective. The FCA is already doing that. It launched a discussion paper on SMEs as users of financial services in November 2015. Among other things, that looks at the remit of the FOS in providing fast and inexpensive redress for consumers and our smallest businesses. The FCA is currently analysing the responses to the discussion paper, but when its findings are published, we will consider them very closely. Let me make it clear that if they include the need to review the support for businesses in resolving financial disputes, we will look at that.

It is important for me to reflect on the specific comments made today. There have been quite a few, but I shall do my very best to cover most of them. The hon. Member for East Lothian asked about reforming insolvency law. He may be pleased to hear that the Government keep insolvency law under regular review, and we are currently considering the responses to our recent review of the corporate insolvency framework.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned Andrew Bailey. As Andrew Bailey made clear in his letter to the hon. Gentleman yesterday, the FCA is considering the treatment of small and medium-sized enterprises as users of financial services. It has yet to publish the findings from that work, but, again, if they include the need to review the support for businesses in resolving financial disputes, we will look at that.

I fully recognise the hon. Gentleman’s views about RBS, the Global Restructuring Group and its treatment of small business. I share those concerns and am keen to discuss with RBS the detail of the redress scheme it announced recently for former customers of GRG.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) for his support for alternative dispute resolution. We welcome businesses using alternative methods to resolve disputes.

The right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) raised concerns about the quality of the IRHP review. The Treasury Committee has recommended that the FCA should learn lessons and the FCA has confirmed that it will do so once legal proceedings are at an end. He also mentioned access to the Financial Ombudsman Service. The FCA estimates that 97% of small businesses have access to the FOS and the Government believe the FOS plays a crucial role for small businesses.

The right hon. Gentleman asked an important question about the British Business Bank’s enterprise finance guarantee scheme. At the instigation of the British Business Bank, RBS conducted an in-depth internal investigation of its administration of the EFG. RBS put in place a plan to rectify the issues identified and has concluded remediation action with affected customers.

[Mr Hanson]

Will the Minister give way?

[Simon Kirby]

I will not give way, but perhaps we might speak afterwards. I have an awful lot of things I have to address.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) asked about incentives to discourage misconduct. The Government and regulators have acted to embed personal responsibility in banking through the senior managers and certification regime. He also stated that small businesses should be treated as consumers.

House of Lords Reform and Size of the House of Commons

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart]

There are many things that can be defined as redeeming features, and that is one that I accept, so I thank the right hon. Gentleman for pointing it out.

The new parliamentarians of Great Britain are strangers to the ballot box, but very good friends of the former Prime Minister.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Following the right hon. Gentleman’s point on gender balance, may I help the hon. Gentleman by saying that, among the hereditary peers, there are currently 91 men and one woman?

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Ellis]

I had noticed that brass neck, and I congratulate my hon. Friend on making that point. At least 61 peers are registered as living in Scotland.

[Mr Hanson]

Will the Deputy Leader of the House answer one question? Does he support the principle of hereditary peers in the 21st century, or will he support the ten-minute rule Bill to abolish them that I introduced last year or Lord Grocott’s Bill to end them that is now in the other place? Will he confirm that he could now do so?

[Michael Ellis]

As I have said, as was set out in the Conservative party manifesto, the Government recognise the need to reduce the size of the House of Lords. However, comprehensive reform of the House of Lords is not considered a priority in the current Parliament, given the other pressing constitutional matters, not least, I should say, the further devolution of powers to Scotland and Wales. We consider there to be higher priorities.

The House of Lords has not stood still in the past few years. In the last Parliament, it took forward some important reforms, with Government support. Although there is more to do, that Chamber has constantly evolved. The House of Lords Reform Act 2014 allowed peers to retire formally and permanently for the first time. It also provided for the expulsion of peers for non-attendance. Previously, a peer had to apply for a leave of absence. The Act was promoted by Lord Steel.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I want to lay my cards on the table straight away and say that I support the motion and I support the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery). I have been here for nearly 25 years, and in that time I have voted on every available occasion to abolish the House of Lords. If I have not been able to abolish the House of Lords—self-evidently, I have not—I have voted for change in the House of Lords.

I will propose some changes that the Government could deliver, should they so wish, to improve democracy without achieving my ultimate objective of massive reorganisation of the formulation of the House of Lords. It is not tenable in the 21st century to have an unelected House deciding on policy. It is not tenable to have hereditary peers deciding on policy. It is not tenable to have hereditary peers who are elected by other hereditary peers, with very small mandates—sometimes as few as three votes—deciding policies that affect the lives of my constituents. At a time when the Government are seeking to reduce the membership of this House from 650 to 600 and to remove completely Euro Members of Parliament, whose powers and responsibilities will be transferred back to this House, it is not tenable for us to allow the House of Lords to continue unchanged.

The recently appointed Lord Speaker, Lord Fowler, is a former Conservative MP whom I remember being a member of the Cabinets of Mrs Thatcher and John Major when I first came here. He has said that there is no way the Lords can defend its current size of 820 peers and that

“we’ve been faffing around on this for some time now. And my fear would be that unless we take the initiative here someone else will”.

Let me suggest some simple initiatives. I will set the bar very low, because the Government’s position appears to be that they cannot make massive change, so they will make no change. A proposal to bring some things back into kilter is something that we in this House should support, and I suggest these three simple changes. First, let us remove from the House of Lords the 92 hereditary peers, 91 of whom, as I said in an intervention on the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), happen to be men and only one of whom is a woman. Those 92 hereditary peers are elected by as few as three votes.

[Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)]

As the right hon. Gentleman has just said, those hereditary peers are elected. The motion states that the Government should

“put in place plans to significantly reduce the number of unelected Lords”.

Is he proposing that the number of hereditary peers should stay the same, if he supports the motion?

[Mr Hanson]

If the hon. Gentleman listens to what I am saying, he will hear that I have three small points to make—three very low bars. The first low bar is the removal of the hereditary peers. The second low bar is not to fill any more vacancies with unelected peers until the House of Lords gets down to a reasonable size, below that of the House of Commons.

On hereditary peers, let me just say that one of those recently elected is the Lord Fairfax of Cameron, whose great-great-great-great-great-great-something grandfather got his peerage because he was the first Englishman to travel to Scotland to swear allegiance to the new King James I. I happen to think that in the 21st century, we should pick our legislators on more than the fact that one of their ancestors knew how to get to Scotland quite quickly. That is no way to run a modern House of Lords.

Lord Thurso, the last Member to be elected as an hereditary peer, was an hereditary peer but he renounced his peerage, came to this place and sat on the Liberal Democrat Benches until he lost his seat, when he suddenly rediscovered his blue blood. That is no way to run a modern democracy. In April this year, I introduced a ten-minute rule Bill to abolish hereditary peers. A Bill in another place in the name of my noble Friend Lord Grocott is designed to do something very similar to what the hon. Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) has suggested: not to fill the position of hereditary peers who retire or die. Those are both simple steps that could be taken now to remove the hereditary peers. Those things would be part of a wider package in due course, but the Government could certainly do them now. I am sure that no right hon. or hon. Member of this House would object to a small Bill to meet those objectives.

My second suggestion is not to fill vacancies until the size of the House of Lords gets down to that of the House of Commons. What is wrong with that? I want massive change—I have voted to abolish the Lords—but in the absence of consensus, let us look at how we can reduce the number of Members over time. That is perfectly reasonable.

The third suggestion may be revolutionary, but it is an attempt to find a compromise. I agree with the Government that Members of Parliament should represent equal numbers of constituents. Let us do that, but let us keep 650 MPs and have a boundary review on that basis, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck said. In my part of the world, Wales, we would lose seats under such a review—we have 55,000 to 60,000 electors in each constituency—but we would have the same number of constituents and reasonable representation. But, no, this Government are seeking to reduce the representation from 650 to 600 Members, while in previous 18 months the former Prime Minister appointed 132 peers to the House of Lords.

I am sorry, but I happen to think we need radical surgery and radical change. I have three simple suggestions to get the ball rolling: remove the hereditaries, freeze appointments and consider keeping 650 Members of Parliament with equal numbers of voters, including—dare I say it?—in the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight, which are slightly different. Let us look at those things and make sure we make some radical changes on the road to democratising this Parliament and giving a lead to the rest of the world.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Whittingdale]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I pay tribute to his efforts particularly to bring about the stadium for Cornwall, which the Government are committed to. As he knows, I have already held two meetings with interested parties in Cornwall, which he was able to come to. I understand that good progress is being made, and that a draft planning application is now going before the council. I hope that that will lead to progress, and that we will see commencement of work on a stadium in the near future.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

T4. What protections can my constituents and others expect on mobile phone roaming charges in Europe in the event of an exit on 24 June?

[The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

That is a very good question. Britain was at the forefront of negotiating the reduction in roaming charges, working with our European partners, and it is yet another example of the benefit to consumers and citizens of being a member of the European Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Thérèse Coffey]

Of course, matters of voting are ultimately for the House to decide, although I do not sense an extended appetite for the changes suggested.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

7. What plans he has to review English votes for English laws.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey]

We have fulfilled our manifesto commitment in introducing English votes for English laws, which we believe will continue to strengthen the Union. However, the Government will undertake a review of the English votes for English laws procedure in the autumn, as we said we would, drawing on the work of the Procedure Committee, the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, and the House of Lords Constitution Committee.

[Mr Hanson]

Some aspects of the Wales Bill currently before the House are solely Wales matters on which every Member of this House can vote, and yet if similar provision were put in place in England, my vote as a Welsh Member of Parliament would not count. Is that fair?

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Chancellor should remain seated. If that is the sum total of what he has to contribute on his feet in response to that question, frankly it was not worth the breath. It was utterly feeble and constitutionally improper. Learn it—it is very simple!

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on the economy of the UK leaving the EU.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of the potential effect of the UK leaving the EU on the economy of (a) Coventry and (b) the west midlands.

[Mr Hanson]

The head of the World Trade Organisation said yesterday that the process of negotiating deals outside Europe would take decades. Is that not one of the reasons why confidence would be hit, currency would fall and jobs would be lost, including the 24,000 in Wales that the Minister has mentioned, and why companies such as Hitachi have mentioned today that they would pull out of the United Kingdom? Do we not agree on this one, Minister?

[Damian Hinds]

I think we do agree on the turmoil that uncertainty can bring, and the uncertainty about future trade deals that the right hon. Gentleman raises is part of that. There is much more uncertainty as well, of course, for businesses that currently trade with other European countries and people who are employed in those countries or might be thinking of going to them. All these things generate uncertainty, which creates economic turmoil in the short run. There is a real danger of missing out on a very large number of third-party trades in the long run, when all the EU trade deals currently under negotiation are finished, which will account for some 80% of our trade.

UK Economy: Post-Referendum Assessment

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I shall try not to be drawn too much on the subjects of curry or Leicester City, although I of course congratulate Leicester City and look forward to their season, and possibly more, in the Champions League. Immigration policy for those outside the European Union is clearly a matter for this Government and for this House, and that will continue to be the case, whatever the result on 23 June.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Airbus, which employs 7,000 people across north Wales and north-west England and many thousands more elsewhere in the United Kingdom, has, with the full support of the trade unions, written to every employee of Airbus to explain to them why they should vote yes in the forthcoming referendum. Will the Minister confirm that the short-term and long-term risks outlined in today’s report are the very reason that companies such as Airbus have come off the fence to strongly support a yes vote on 23 June?

[Mr Gauke]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Businesses are perfectly entitled to write to their employees when they see a risk to the business that they undertake, and those consequences should be made very clear. It is striking how the concerns of individual businesses, big and small, about the consequences of leaving the European Union are consistent with some of the concerns that we have set out in the Treasury document—namely, that the UK would be poorer outside the European Union and that we are stronger, safer and better off within it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We have to move on—far too slow.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of which groups within the UK population will benefit from planned changes to corporation tax.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

13. What assessment he has made of which groups within the UK population will benefit from planned changes to corporation tax.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

Corporation tax cuts have been a central part of the Government’s economic strategy, and that strategy is working; there are 2.3 million more people in employment since 2010. The further cuts in the main rate announced at the Budget, which will bring it down to 17% by 2020, will benefit over 1 million companies, large and small. Lower corporation tax rates will support UK companies to invest and grow, creating jobs as they do so.

[Mr Hanson]

One of the justifications for the corporation tax cut was that businesses would pass it on to workers through the increase in the living wage. Evidence is now emerging that some companies intend to pocket the tax cut and squeeze conditions for their employees, so what steps do the Government intend to take to monitor that?

[Mr Gauke]

The cuts in corporation tax will result in greater investment in this country, and greater investment drives productivity growth, and productivity growth is what will drive higher living standards. Let us remember that it is this Government who have brought in the national living wage, and we have seen very large numbers of people see increases in their wages and salaries.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Oh—thank you very much, Mr Speaker. [Laughter.] I have been here so long that I was falling into a general stupor. I am so pleased to have you back in the Chair. It is pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, and I welcome you back.

Over the last couple of days, I have taken some time to think about when a Budget was either as bad or has unravelled as quickly as this one. I thought of this Chancellor’s Budget of 2012, with its pasty tax and caravan tax, and I was reminded today of the failed Budgets of the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) in the early ’90s. He raised VAT on fuel, including gas and electricity, and was defeated on it. However, after 24 years in the House, I cannot think of a Budget that has unravelled so quickly, or in such a damaging fashion, as the one proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer today.

We will vote on the Budget at 7 o’clock, when we do not even know—because we have not had an answer from the Chancellor today—from where the £4.4 billion loss of revenue from the appalling cut that he initially proposed will come. He said, “Trust me: we will discuss this in the autumn”, but it strikes me that we cannot wait until the autumn, given that we have a vote this evening. I hope that the Chief Secretary will respond to those central points when he winds up the debate.

The Chancellor admitted today that he had made a mistake. He admitted that he had made a U-turn. I put it to the House that this is no mistake, and no U-turn. This is simply the Chancellor who could not get his proposals through the House of Commons. The values that led him to make the choices that he made last week—the values that led him to choose to take money from disabled people in personal independence payments, and the values that led him to cut capital gains and business taxes—were values that he still holds today. If he could have got those measures through the House, he would have done so. His central value is one which ensures that we see a shift from the poor to the rich, that we have a small state, and that members of an out-of-touch elite are managing issues that they know little about, and care little about. I hope that the Chief Secretary, who represents Chelsea and Fulham, will accept that he lives in a bubble that does not relate to the lives of the vast majority of people in the constituencies that we represent.

On my patch, more than 1,200 people would have lost those personal independence payments. The fact is that the Chancellor has changed his mind not because of his desire to make the world better, but because his values would have been defeated, and defeated, dare I say it, by some of his own colleagues who faced the wrath of their constituents.

Time is limited, but I want to say three more things. First, we need to look at spending on infrastructure, including infrastructure in areas like north Wales. The Chancellor announced welcome money for Manchester airport, but we need a rail link to Manchester from north Wales. We need to think about how we can develop the north Wales economy with extra support for the HS2 route from Crewe to north Wales. We need to think about how we can electrify the rail network. That would be positive, valued investment, and we need to make it in a united European Union whose benefits are shared throughout the United Kingdom for all the people of the United Kingdom.

I take just one positive thing from the Chancellor’s Budget today: the Government’s commitment to campaign for a yes vote on 23 June. I look forward to working with them to achieve that yes vote for the good of the United Kingdom, and the good of north Wales.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

EU Referendum: Timing

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 9th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dodds]

I quite agree with my hon. Friend, who sets out the position very clearly.

Only last month, the Prime Minister himself was pretty unambiguous about this matter. He said:

“I’m not in a hurry. I can hold my referendum any time up until the end of 2017”,

and that

“it is more important to get this right than to rush it.”

My fear is that he is rushing it and not getting it right.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

As a Welsh Member of Parliament, I have some sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman’s argument on grounds of purdah and for other reasons, but will he help to clarify it by telling us on what date he thinks the referendum should be held? I am also concerned that the longer this is left, the more damaging it will be to the long-term economy of the United Kingdom.

Small Businesses: Tax Reporting

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Monday 25th January 2016 Westminster Hall

On resuming—

[Mr David Hanson (in the Chair)]

As there were two Divisions in the House, the debate may continue until 8 pm. When we divided, Sammy Wilson was at his peroration.

[Sammy Wilson]

I have three points to make in conclusion. First, although more than 100,000 people have signed the petition, I believe, despite what the Government have said, that that is probably an indication that many businesses are not even aware of the changes. If the policy announcement has not percolated down to those who will be affected, how can we be sure that they will be fully aware of the substantive changes to come until they are hit by them? There is a lesson to be learned about just how effective the announcement and the consultation have been. Secondly, although the Government argue that they want to reduce the regulatory burden on businesses, I cannot for the life of me, for the reasons I have given, understand how the approach will reduce that regulatory burden.

My third point is about political perception, but it is important, and I would have thought that the Minister’s party would have been particularly concerned about this. There is increasing cynicism that somehow big business gets away with things that small business does not. The measure will apply to small businesses but not to large ones, yet all the time the headline news is about how the latter—whether it is the Googles or the Starbucks —seem to walk away from their tax responsibilities. People will find it difficult to understand why there should be a greater onus on small businesses to declare their earnings and business details when some of the larger ones can get away without paying tax for 10 years and then get a slap on the wrist. As we discussed earlier in the main Chamber, they seem to get away with paying very little.