Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I should explain for the benefit of the House that as the Secretary of State has given what might be called a national answer, slightly opening up Question 3, for which I do not in any way excoriate him, the field is now open.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I thank you, Mr Speaker, and through you the Secretary of State for his generosity. Areas such as Northumberland have sometimes lost out, as the Secretary of State has pointed out, through funding formulae that do not recognise deprivation that is more dispersed. I urge him to ensure that the review takes full account of that, so that areas such as Northumberland get their fair share of national funding and to ensure that the pupil premium continues its progress in tackling deprivation across the country.

[Michael Gove]

Since the days of the Venerable Bede, where Northumberland has led, the rest of the country has followed. My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Northumberland and Cornwall have similar challenges that will be taken into account in our review of funding.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

Absolutely, and that is why this Government have placed unprecedented emphasis on quality. I repeat—for the sake of clarity, Mr Speaker; no more than that—that we have said that all apprenticeships should be on an employed basis. The last Government did not do that. They believed in programme-led apprenticeships —faux apprenticeships from a faux Government.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

Through the youth contracts and apprenticeship programmes, which the Minister has already mentioned, the Government have demonstrated their commitment to tackling these problems. Is the Minister working with Departments across Government to ensure that those programmes reach into the most deprived urban neighbourhoods, and also isolated rural communities?

[Mr Hayes]

My work across Government is constant—almost endless. In particular, we are working closely with the Department for Work and Pensions. Of course, I am a Minister in two Departments—I am not just a one-Department man, but a two-Department man—so the relationship between the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the Department for Education and the DWP is critical to ensuring that our skills policy works across Departments.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

The Government and the Department have acted to allay concerns on the equivalency of some qualifications for the purposes of performance statistics, but will the Secretary of State confirm that the coalition Government are committed to raising the status of vocational education and to recognising the achievements of schools, colleges, teachers and young people?

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely. I am uniquely fortunate in that I have in the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning a colleague who is passionate about that and who is on record in the latest issue of The House Magazine as having said that he has used the word “apprenticeship” in debates in this House more often than any other Member here. The reason he has done so and the reason we are so committed to increasing the number of apprenticeships—[Interruption.] He is a great Minister and he is part of a coalition Government who have presided over the fastest growth in quality apprenticeships under any Government in history.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 16th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Teather]

I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

In her answer to the original question, my hon. Friend referred to pathfinders. How will the information that she obtains from them be shared publicly, and how will it inform her work towards legislation in that area?

[Sarah Teather]

We are trying to go through a process of active learning so that the lessons from the pathfinders do not go into a black box and are not looked at again, but are shared with other local authorities. Local authority groups have come together, so it is not necessarily the case that individual local authorities are working in isolation, but are working with parents’ groups and charities on the ground. We are keen to learn the lessons that they are looking at, and we will make sure that that informs our legislation in future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Teather]

I absolutely agree that the figures for attainment for children on free school meals and looked-after children are woefully inadequate at present. That is why we have introduced the pupil premium. I should also say that in the hon. Lady’s constituency per-pupil funding is higher than almost anywhere else in the country. A substantial amount of money is already going into her constituency, therefore, as well as a significant amount of money through the pupil premium, which will rise to £2.5 billion nationally by the end of the spending review period. I would therefore encourage her to ask her schools how they are spending that money, and I would be very pleased to hear the detail of some of the best practice being followed by them.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

My hon. Friend rightly sets out the benefits of the pupil premium. Does she agree that one of them is that it targets disadvantaged pupils wherever they are in the country, unlike general funding formulas, which the Government are looking at and which under previous Administrations have, perhaps, neglected some children in some parts of the country?

[Sarah Teather]

Absolutely. I represent an inner-London constituency so I see very high levels of deprivation there, but there are also high levels of deprivation in rural areas, which is often unseen either because it is in pockets or because people might perceive that because an area is leafier it must also be wealthier. Many rural schools, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency, will benefit from the pupil premium and will be able to focus their efforts on raising the attainment of all their pupils.

Education Bill

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 14th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Graham Stuart]

It is a pleasure to participate in the debate and to see so many members of the Bill Committee present. I know that a lot of effort has gone into improving the Bill and I am delighted that their noble lordships have made many constructive contributions. I am also delighted that Ministers have been prepared to listen—as, to be fair, they have throughout the process—and have made amendments accordingly.

One issue that I raised in Committee concerned schools’ discretionary referral of teachers who have been sacked for misconduct. In the other place, Lord Hill said that we could be assured that all the most serious cases would be referred, and I would be grateful if the Minister could help me to understand how that will necessarily be the case if discretion lies with the school. I am happy to take an intervention now if he is able to give me that information, but if he is not I shall move on.

Interim immediate barring orders will be in the hands of the Secretary of State for cases in which the concern is sufficiently great, and where someone can be referred, we are talking about a great sanction. Such sanctions are probably appropriate for teachers who have been, or who are suspected of having been, guilty of gross misconduct, but how do we ensure consistency? One can imagine a case in which two teachers have behaved in exactly the same way but in which one of them is let go by the school and that is it—they go off and their CV is doubtless marked and harmed but fundamentally they can carry on with their career—whereas another is referred upwards into the national machinery, which Ministers themselves accept is cumbersome and comes with heavy sanction. I am not yet entirely satisfied that there will be justice and equality of treatment in such circumstances, and I ask the Minister to respond to that point later.

In respect of reporting restrictions, the shadow schools Minister is right to say that all of us who have focused on the provision have worried about its possible unintended consequences. We all recognise the vulnerability of teachers to malicious allegations, which can spread from chatter around the school yard to chatter around the community. If an allegation is formally made and appears in a newspaper, that can have a devastating effect on a teacher who might have dedicated their life to supporting and educating young people. All Committee members, and everyone to whom I have spoken on this issue, sympathise with the Government’s approach, but questions remain. The Newspaper Society submission may not have caused my views to undergo a complete U-turn, but it raised a lot of questions as to where this protection should stop. The Opposition suggested it should be extended to other teachers, and I have mentioned social workers. I have yet to grasp the point of principle that justifies limiting this provision to teachers alone, rather than its covering many other professions as well, which might result in the public losing their right to know what is going on.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that even if such allegations are not reported in the media, they may get out into the community and may influence head teachers when they make decisions about appointments? The operation of these provisions will therefore need to be examined after they are put in place.

[Mr Stuart]

I agree that we will have to keep a close eye on the provision, but I hope it does the job it is intended to do in a fair and just way, and we can give Ministers a great deal of credit for having listened to the debate in the Lords and for having come forward with amendments to ensure that it does, indeed, work in the fairest possible way.

In respect of exemptions, there is an anomaly which I highlighted through an amendment in Committee. Further education lecturers and teachers in sixth-form colleges, who come under the same administrative banding of FE for these purposes, do not receive the same level of protection as schoolteachers. To reiterate the point made by the shadow Minister, a lecturer and a schoolteacher might be teaching the same people the same subject in the same kind of classroom, yet the lecturer will not have this protection while the schoolteacher will.

--- Later in debate ---

I am pleased that the Education Committee will consider how the examination board system works, but, as the Minister said, there is an ever-greater cost to getting 99.99% accuracy up to 100%. We shall create the incentive to go the extra mile by ensuring that, if people fail, there is a counterbalancing cost. It is absolutely right that that is being done. I am happy to support the Lords amendments.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I rise to support a number of the Lords amendments that were made in another place at the prompting of the Government, although as the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) said, a number of the issues were explored in Committee before the Bill passed to the other end of the building.

I am pleased that the Government have reconsidered the duty to co-operate. The hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) talked about the analogue process of inspection. Well, coalition government is an analogue process as well, and my noble Friends, along with Lord Laming, were keen that the issue, especially with regard to safeguarding, should remain on the statute book, because of the emerging relationship between local authorities and schools that will follow the transition in some parts of the country when large schools to take up the opportunities of the academies programme. The Secretary of State for Education has spoken in the past about the need to consider how local authorities and schools will work in that context. The Deputy Prime Minister mentioned in a speech in September that local authorities needed a new role in considering the education environment.

Of course, fewer academy conversions have taken place in some parts of the country than in others. The process will take different forms in different parts of the country, but that is right and in accord with the principles of localism, as the hon. Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) said in his contribution. There will be opportunities to revisit the discussion about how schools and local authorities co-operate with regard to the objectives for wider community development and for education—of course, the key priority for schools—but it is clear that the Government, having considered the issue, wanted there to be no doubt at all about the message that goes out about safeguarding. On that key duty to operate on those issues, the Government have responded to the points made by Lord Laming and others, and I welcome that.

On admissions, the debate in another place focused on the duty of the Secretary of State to provide fair access in all circumstances. Clearly, the Secretary of State has that duty, supported by the schools adjudicator, so that should set minds at rest. Where there have been anomalies, some are anecdotal. We hear, for example, that in the original academies lower numbers of pupils were on free school meals than at other schools in the area. That requires exploration. The pupil premium will have the effect of showing that all schools will benefit hugely from bringing in pupils from across the community and having the resources to provide any extra support that might be necessary early on in a student’s school career, to ensure that they get the benefit that everybody else enjoys as they move through the education system.

I am grateful to the Minister and his noble Friend for the changes that they have made to the original proposals on school governance. The hon. Member for Stroud is no longer in his place. I should take the opportunity to attend his all-party group, which I have not done thus far. We on the Liberal Democrat Benches are a little more convinced of the benefits of the stakeholder model. I entirely understand what the hon. Gentleman was saying with regard to skills. The model advanced by the Minister through the amendments made in another place provides the opportunity for co-option and for discussion with the local authority about the sort of person who would be appropriate for the governing body of a school, to ensure that the skills profile is met and the new responsibilities—

[Richard Fuller]

I am listening with great interest to what my hon. Friend is saying. His party obviously has a slightly different perspective on issues from the other party in the coalition, and that is to be welcomed. Two minds can often be better than one. How, from his party’s point of view, does he see the role of a local authority governor evolving as local authorities move towards the role of commissioner for school budgets? Does he believe that local authority governors will be able to wear the two hats effectively, as they have in the past?

[Dan Rogerson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. In Bedford, people very much have two minds elected to represent them—their excellent elected mayor, Dave Hodgson, alongside the hon. Gentleman working hard for constituents there. I agree that issues arising from commissioning need to be examined—not just questions about how much money each school should receive, but wider questions, such as how that relationship can evolve and deliver for the local community.

To return to the topic of governance, the amendment tabled in another place allows staff and the local authority to have a voice in the discussions that take place within a governing body, but there is plenty of scope for skills that are needed on that body to be provided through co-option and for those put forward as local authority governors to respond to the need for skills.

On inspection, Liberal Democrats have long said that we want to remove the burden of bureaucracy from schools, and colleagues in the Conservative party have expressed similar views. The more risk-based approach to Ofsted inspection responds to that aim. As Members of Parliament we hear of other instances in our constituencies where local businesses, for example, would welcome a response from Government when risks and problems have been highlighted, but not when that is not seen to be necessary. As we have heard, other forms of data are available so that people can make up their own mind. There are opportunities for inspections to be triggered, should that be necessary. One such example concerning a change of head teacher was provided by the Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), who is no longer in his place.

As I understand it, Ofsted will continue to undertake thematic surveys—for example, on safeguarding, to which I referred earlier. Such surveys would include outstanding schools which may not have undergone a full Ofsted inspection for a year or so. I am pleased that the Government have listened and responded to debates. The coalition Government have produced a Bill, as amended in the other place, in which people can have confidence. I hope it will unlock further the potential in the education system to deliver for our young people.

[Stephen McPartland]

I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute on this group of amendments. Like my hon. Friends the Members for Bedford (Richard Fuller) and for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), the Chairman of the Select Committee, who is not at present in his place, I broadly support the amendments but would like to push the Government to go a little further in some respects. One of my key themes is that the Bill seems to be written very much with secondary schools in mind, as opposed to primary schools. Although there are some elements of the Bill that focus on primary schools, it could go much further.

Members in all parts of the House have welcomed the fact that teachers will have anonymity from false accusations. If the individual is charged, the police will not be prevented from investigating, but the teacher will be protected. That is good news, but Members on all sides are concerned that it does not go far enough. One of my worries is that in a primary school setting, where teaching assistants are often given responsibility for dealing with the most difficult children, sometimes the most difficult families, and work in a room with just one or two of those children, they are at severe risk from such accusations.

I welcome the amendments from another place relating to an application in a court for a judge to lift reporting restrictions. The welfare of the teacher who is the subject of the allegation is taken into account, as is the welfare of the pupil or pupils who are the alleged victims. However, the Government could go a little further and think about staff in specific situations. For example, I know of schools around the country where teaching assistants are often put in charge of classrooms, essentially acting as teachers. Under the Bill, they will not have the same protection as a teacher in the next classroom who is dealing with the same key stage group. I urge the Government to look into such situations and respond accordingly.

On the admissions code, I welcome many of the changes, particularly the fact that adopted children who were looked after before they were adopted will still have the same priority for places as looked-after children. That is extremely important, as it could benefit 3,000 children each year. I have an example in my constituency of a child who was adopted for many of the best reasons—I know that across all parties there is a big push to ensure that children are adopted much faster, instead of being looked after—yet simply because they did not remain a looked-after child, 17 different funding streams that had been providing support within the school were lost.

From an educational point of view, it might seem that it would have been in the child’s interest to continue to be looked after, as opposed to being adopted, whereas from the point of view of their social development, it is much better for the child to have been adopted and become part of a more stable family. I welcome the provision, which is important in setting a precedent for considering in the round the priorities in such a situation. Those children still have the same problems securing a place in a school that is right for them, and it is important for the family who have adopted the child to be given access to the necessary services.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I admire the elegance with which the hon. Gentleman manages to insinuate into his question a matter that is dramatically different from issues relating to the English baccalaureate. All Government business in the Department for Education is at all times conducted with extreme propriety.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

In consideration of the impact of the English baccalaureate, will the Secretary of State discuss with Ofsted how it should evaluate schools’ performance to ensure that work on vocational and other subjects is taken into account?

New Schools

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s confirmation that the programme will focus on providing capacity where it is needed. However, when considering applications, will he also bear in mind the need for new providers to work alongside existing providers to complement provision?

[Michael Gove]

It is right that we ensure, when new schools are established, that they add to the great schools already there—whether through a different type of pedagogy or capacity. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) for underlining the point that I made at the Conservative party conference—the fact that we need new schools and need to reform should not take away for a moment from the significant achievements that have been made over the past several years by schools and teachers doing a great job in the maintained sector.

Careers Service (Young People)

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Chapman]

I listen carefully to the right hon. Gentleman, and clearly he is far more experienced in the ways of the House than I am. It really is not about what we get up and say—it is what we do. We must show support for young people through our actions, not just by giving a fancy speech.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I am listening carefully to the distinction that the hon. Lady is drawing between how Members will vote on the motion and their commitments more widely. Will she tell us whether the previous Government guaranteed face-to-face contact for every person, as the motion seeks to demand that the Government guarantee?

[Mrs Chapman]

There are issues with Connexions, and if I am able to deliver the rest of my speech, I will come on to that.

Satisfaction with Connexions varies a great deal, and the Minister rightly pointed out that its careers advice was lacking. In his report, Alan Milburn observed that only one in five young people questioned on the issue found that the careers advice offered by Connexions was satisfactory. That situation is not sustainable, and we should not put up with it. My objection is that the only young people who will receive guaranteed, face-to-face, top-notch, good-quality careers advice are those in fee-paying schools, which no one in the House should tolerate, regardless of their political affiliation, background or education.

The issue is not just the life chances of individual young people, although it certainly includes that, and I am sure that will be the main focus of debate. This is about economic regeneration. My constituency has an engineering heritage and I have some very large engineering companies. I am thinking of Cummins, which makes engines. I do not understand fully what the company does, but I know the engines come in a range of colours. The careers advice and guidance that I was given, growing up in a town with such a strong engineering heritage, was about the public sector, health care and social sciences. Nobody ever spoke to me about taking maths, about a career in engineering, about getting into technology—nothing. Not very much has changed in that respect.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

May I begin by extending the Opposition’s best wishes to the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning? He always makes these debates an absolute delight and pleasure; frankly, we have missed him today and we very much hope that he has a speedy recovery from his operation.

The debate has not been what I expected, which was more of the yah-boo politics that we have come to expect in the House. I expected to hear, “You spent too much money,” coming from one side and, “You don’t care about vulnerable people,” on the other. I have been struck by how much consensus there has been and what a good, measured, well-informed and excellent tone there has been throughout. At its best, the debate has featured hon. Members being very much in agreement. I pay tribute to all hon. Members who have contributed tonight, particularly to the spirit in which the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) made his remarks. What I did find regrettable, however, were the contortions that he and the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) got into in saying, “We agree with every single point that the Opposition are making regarding the motion, but we cannot possibly vote with them tonight,” for whatever reason.

[Dan Rogerson]

The point that might have escaped the shadow Minister is that the Opposition have taken one recommendation out of a whole report and sought to force a vote on something tonight that they never provided for when they were in government. Unfortunately, that brings a yah-boo, cynical element to something that goes much wider. It would be better to debate the full report from the Government and the reaction to that report.

School Funding Reform

Dan Rogerson Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

That was a passionate case well made, but I have to emphasise that I need to be fair to all local authorities. That means that we will look at the condition of schools in all local authorities, and the evidence will be sifted objectively. I am aware that Walthamstow, like many London boroughs and many areas in the south-east, is facing particular pressure on primary school places. Because Building Schools for the Future was primarily about secondary school places, we need to ensure that the absolute need for every child to secure a school place is at the front of everything we do.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. This long overdue review of the funding formula will ensure that there is a much fairer system across the country, and will involve looking at the possible double funding of local authorities and any potential overpayment that academies have had over and above LACSEG—the local authority central spend equivalent grant. That is due to replace the services that local authorities provide. On capital, will he ensure that there is a constant review to see whether there is any underspend from any other programmes in the Department or other money that could be channelled elsewhere? Will he also ensure that schools that need renovation or rebuilding will be prioritised?

[Michael Gove]

We will absolutely seek to ensure that academies are fairly funded and that they are neither penalised nor overfunded. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to emphasise that in some cases we need to look again to ensure that there is absolute propriety. On the broader question, we will continually seek to bear down on inefficiencies, and money that we liberate will go to those most in need.