Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Third sitting)

Clive Jones Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 15th May 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Griffiths (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Ms Vaz.

New clause 2, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire and my right hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay, is not just a bit of introductory waffle. It is the constitutional backbone that the Bill is sorely missing. What it does is straightforward: it spells out what this legislation is actually for. Yes, it is about improving product regulation and metrology, but, crucially, the new clause makes it clear that that must be done by putting the United Kingdom’s regulatory autonomy and competitiveness front and centre. Those are the very principles that we fought for during Brexit.

We did not leave the EU just to create Brussels bureaucracy with a new postcode. We left so that decisions about how we regulate, trade and grow could be made here by elected representatives answerable to the British people. Yet what we have in the Bill from this Labour Government is worryingly vague. There is no clear objective and no anchor, just a blank cheque that allows Ministers and officials to drift into copying EU rules or centralising control, all without proper scrutiny. That is not careful lawmaking, but a recipe for regulatory sprawl.

New clause 2 would put a stop to that. It is about setting the right direction from the outset. Regulation should support growth and promote clarity, not stifle it, and rules should work for this country, not be imported to satisfy someone else’s system. The new clause would lock in a proudly Conservative vision in which the state backs enterprise, in which we trust British industry, and in which Parliament, not faceless regulators or quangos, has the final say. I urge colleagues to support the new clause.

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. As somebody who has imported and exported products to and from Europe and the rest of the world for much of the last 40 years, and seen the regulations change much over the last 40 years, I believe it is sensible that we are aligned to our major markets. The hon. Member for West Worcestershire talked about that, and she is absolutely right. One of our major markets is right on our doorstep. We need to be aligned to it because it is much better for our businesses if our regulations—

[Alison Griffiths]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Clive Jones]

I will only talk for a moment. I will carry on and the hon. Lady can come in later if she wishes.

In my experience, it is important that regulations are clear for UK manufacturers. They should have one set of product regulations, rather than one set for the UK, one for the USA and another for Europe. If the Bill allows us the possibility to align with Europe, that is extremely good.

[Mr Holden]

I totally understand where the hon. Gentleman is coming from. I understand that the Lib Dems desire to get closer to and back into bed with Europe—

[Clive Jones]

It is a business point of view.

[Mr Holden]

There are products in respect of which we have really good relationships with the EU and obviously want to align closely to it, but for some products we surely want to align with our bigger export markets. For example, we export a lot more of certain products to Japan and the USA. Why would the hon. Gentleman want to ensure that our alignment is purely with Europe, rather than with our major markets?

[Clive Jones]

I have not said “purely with Europe” at all. We should align with our major markets. I do not know what industries the right hon. Gentleman is referring to, but in my experience as an exporter to Europe and the rest of the world, it is much easier to have one set of regulations.

[Alison Griffiths]

My hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire talked about international markets. One of the opportunities presented by our leaving the European Union is to be able to sell to other international markets. She gave the fantastic example of the shower trays that many of us used this morning—

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[The Chair]

A quick answer within scope, please.

[Clive Jones]

I do agree that we should be exporting internationally.

[Justin Madders]

We have had another interesting debate—a slightly repetitious one that I am sure we are all becoming familiar with. The shadow Minister, as always, was helpful in introducing her new clauses. She is slightly optimistic about the prospect of our accepting them, but I understand that it is her role to challenge and scrutinise the Bill by moving amendments and new clauses.

I agree with the shadow Minister about the importance of improving our regulation and metrology framework. That is indeed what the Bill is about. We had some helpful discussions in the other place about how best to do that. For example, a balance needs to be struck to protect consumers while making regulation workable for business. That balance is not best served by having in the Bill a broad and subjective purpose “to improve”.

The new clause also mentions the prioritisation of

“the United Kingdom’s regulatory autonomy and the United Kingdom’s regulatory competitiveness”.

At the risk of repeating what I said on Tuesday, the Bill is all about regulatory autonomy. It will provide powers to enable the UK to change existing regulations or introduce new ones in support of our needs and interests. The Bill introduces those powers because they are currently lacking.

The shadow Minister said that we will have our product regulations set by the EU, and the hon. Member for Chester South and Eddisbury said that we will be taking up new rules by default. They are, I am afraid, incorrect on both points. The Bill actually does the opposite and allows us to take a considered view on a case-by-case basis. Indeed, that is what the previous Conservative Government did through the regulations introduced last year.

The powers in the Bill will also mean that the UK can maintain regulations that support competitiveness. That requires a balance between a range of objectives, including consumer safety and proportionate regulation for businesses. Any changes that we introduce will be consulted on, and Parliament will have a role in overseeing the regulations, as we discussed at length on Tuesday.

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Brought up, and read the First time.

[Clive Jones]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 7—Review of Access to Testing and Certification for SMEs—

“(1) The Secretary of State must undertake a review into the accessibility and affordability of independent product testing and certification, as far as it relates to requirements imposed by or under this Act, for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs).

(2) The review must consider—

(a) the costs incurred by SMEs in meeting relevant testing and certification requirements;

(b) the availability and capacity of accredited testing providers serving SMEs;

(c) any barriers to market access arising from testing and certification obligations; and

(d) potential non-financial measures to support SMEs in meeting compliance requirements.

(3) The Minister must publish a report on the findings of the review, including any recommendations, within 12 months of the commencement of this section.”

This new clause would require the Government to undertake a review into the accessibility and affordability of independent product testing and certification for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) in relation to the requirements of this Act.

[Clive Jones]

New clause 6 has been grouped with new clause 7, and rightly so. Both are driven by the common goal to deliver meaningful support for our Great British small and medium-sized enterprises.

SMEs are the backbone of our economy—engines of innovation and growth that employ millions of people across the UK. Successive financial and administrative barriers have been allowed to accumulate, holding them back. Under this Government, small business confidence has fallen to its lowest point since the first quarter of 2020. The product safety measures enabled by the Bill have the potential to deliver real improvements for consumers, but the reality is that smaller firms do not have the legal or compliance resources that larger businesses can draw on. That is why, as proposed by new clause 6, it is vital that the Government provide specific and accessible support to help small businesses understand what is expected. Ultimately, the new clause is about making the legislation work for everyone, not just for those with in-house legal teams or significant compliance budgets.

New clause 7 seeks a similar purpose. Testing and certification are essential for ensuring product safety and regulatory compliance, but they can be a significant cost for a small business. To take just one example, the British Toy & Hobby Association informs me that an electrical toy must undergo no fewer than 37 separate tests to achieve compliance. There is no single standard test, and the costs can range from £1,000 to £10,000. A significant cost is attached to these essential tests, which is why a review is important.

The tests are critical, but they also represent a significant financial burden, which is why a review matters. It recognises that SMEs often face disproportionate costs and access barriers when attempting to meet the same regulatory standards as their larger competitors. Can the Minister reassure the Committee that his Department will provide clear and proactive support for small businesses navigating the regulatory changes introduced by the Bill?

[Mr Holden]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz.

These small but practical new clauses would help small and medium-sized businesses, so I hope the Minister will acquiesce to the Liberal Democrat motion, which will be supported by Conservative Members. New clause 6 would ensure the publication of simple and clear guidance for SMEs on day one of the Bill becoming law, to be updated every time new regulations are made. Such guidance would set out the key provisions of the Act, provide practical advice and list the available support and contact details for further assistance. New clause 7 would require the Secretary of State to conduct a review of the accessibility and affordability of independent product testing and certification for SMEs, helping to consider the costs, availability of providers and market access barriers.

SMEs often lack the compliance resources of larger corporations. The previous Government’s £4.5 billion advanced manufacturing plan and broader support for British innovation demonstrated our commitment to helping small and medium-sized businesses to grow and compete. The current Government say they want to help such businesses grow and compete, and new clauses 6 and 7 would be practical measures to help them do just that.

Small and medium-sized businesses are the backbone of our economy and are important drivers of innovation and export growth. New clauses 6 and 7 would give them a fighting chance to innovate without being buried in red tape. I urge colleagues to support both new clauses as sensible and practical improvements.

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[Justin Madders]

Of course, that is exactly what we are doing with the requirement to consult as part of the amendments agreed in the other place.

New clause 7 would require a review of the accessibility and affordability of independent product testing and certification for SMEs under the Bill. As I have outlined, the Government already consider the impact of new regulations on relevant stakeholders, including SMEs. We outlined how we will do that in the recently published code of conduct, to which we have referred on several occasions.

The code of conduct details the requirements that the Secretary of State must undertake to ensure that the impacts of any changes are properly considered and reported, including by developing appropriate impact assessments. The better regulation framework is a system that the Government use to manage the flow of regulation and understand its impacts. These assessments will, of course, include the impact of regulations on SMEs as well as other businesses.

We will continue to engage with stakeholders, including SMEs, on any new regulations made under the Bill. As product development continues to evolve, this ongoing approach is likely to be more impactful than any one-off review, as suggested by new clause 7. I hope that the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Wokingham, is sufficiently reassured by what I have said to withdraw new clause 6. I also hope he will accept our assurance that we will continue to engage on these important matters as we move forward.

[Clive Jones]

I thank the Minister for his response, but I am pretty disappointed that the Government are unwilling to take this very modest yet meaningful step to support our small businesses. These new clauses are about removing barriers that prevent small businesses from competing on a level playing field.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

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Brought up, and read the First time.

[Clive Jones]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

It is a pleasure to speak in support of new clause 8, which seeks to level the playing field between online marketplaces and our bricks-and-mortar retailers. Online businesses have so many advantages in the marketplace, making it hard for our high streets to flourish against such competition. The new clause seeks to close those accountability gaps and ensure that consumers are properly protected and compensated when things go wrong. Crucially, it allows for the extension of liability to online marketplaces in the digital economy, where platforms such as Temu, TikTok Shop and Vinted are growing by more than 20% this year alone. That accountability is urgently needed.

When unsafe products are sold online, the lines of responsibility are often blurred. A survey by Electrical Safety First found that 30% of consumers cannot distinguish between an online retailer and an online marketplace, and yet 70% trust these platforms to protect them from unsafe products. That example highlights the need for strong regulation of online marketplaces to bridge the gap between consumer awareness and product safety regulations. The provision would ensure that online intermediaries could not escape responsibility simply because they did not manufacture the product themselves. Platforms are not delivering the changes necessary to protect UK consumers, so measures must be placed on them to ensure that they are responsible for product safety requirements.

Under the current system, Electrical Safety First recently identified 29 active listings for batteries that had been linked to serious incidents, despite an existing withdrawal notice. British consumers are put directly at risk of fires that can take their possessions, livelihoods and loved ones, and the existing enforcement regime cannot keep up. There needs to be accountability. It is not just electrical goods that pose a risk, but toys as well. The British Toy & Hobby Association has independently tested 650 toys bought through online marketplaces from third-party sellers during the last seven years. On average, it found around 90% of those toys to be non-compliant with UK regulations and standards, putting children at risk of choking, strangulation and electrocution.

The new clause would also enable the disclosure of evidence in cases where someone seeks compensation for harm caused by a defective product. That is vital for consumers, who often lack resources and lack access to information held by large platforms or distributors. The online marketplace can feel like the wild west. It is time to bring the law up to speed and ensure that consumer protection is not left behind in the digital age. Consumers want assurances that they have legal redress and consumer protection if it is needed. If a product causes harm, someone must be responsible, and consumers must have a clear, realistic path to justice.

The Government have indicated that liability will be addressed elsewhere. Can the Minister confirm what legislative vehicle will be used, and on what timeline? What mechanism do the Government anticipate using to address the liability of online marketplace providers? Could the Minister publish their plans before the next stage of the Bill? If the online marketplace regulations are to be made prior to addressing the position on liability, we need some analysis of what consequential changes might be required to those regulations. Are the Government considering that?

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[Justin Madders]

I recognise the important points made by hon. Members in this debate. This issue is being actively considered. Liability for damage caused by defective products is an important area of law, and we agree that there is scope for improvements to the legislation—or modernisation, if we want to describe it in that way—but they need to be made in a considered way.

As hon. Members have said, technological advancements and the development of new supply chains since the passage of the Consumer Protection Act 1987 indicate the breadth of change since our liability regime was last updated. We therefore need to carefully consider the range and types of products that should now be in scope of liability claims, as well as who should be liable.

It is important to note that one of the reasons why we cannot accept the new clause is that product liability extends beyond products in scope of the Bill—for example, it covers food and medical devices—so an alternative legislative vehicle may be more appropriate for making updates in this area. I can confirm to the Committee that we have asked the Law Commission to conduct a full and comprehensive review of product liability legislation and make suggestions for reform. We expect the commission to report back next year, and we will legislate if necessary to ensure that product liability laws are up to date and fit for the future.

I hope that reassures hon. Members that we are alive to this issue and actively taking steps to ensure that when we update legislation, we consider the myriad developments in the world.

[Clive Jones]

I thank the Minister for his response. Consumers deserve real protection, not promises of future legislation. If online marketplaces continue to evade liability, unsafe products will slip through the cracks and consumers will pay the price. I therefore intend to press the new clause to a Division.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

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Brought up, and read the First time.

[Clive Jones]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

When the Bill was announced in the King’s Speech last summer, it held real promise of an intention to address the growing number of fires caused by lithium-ion batteries in e-bikes and e-scooters. However, there remains no reference in the Bill to lithium-ion batteries, despite the real and growing harm they cause. This is what new clause 10 seeks to address. According to Electrical Safety First, more than 180 parliamentary constituencies have experienced a fire caused by unsafe lithium-ion batteries since 2020. The evidence is clear that these batteries require a more robust regulatory response. This is not just about consumer protection, although that is vital, but about environmental responsibility. Lithium-ion batteries contain hazardous materials, and poor disposal poses real environmental risks.

The Government have so far accepted an amendment to the Bill that implements a system for classifying high-risk products and applying appropriate regulations. I am sure Members agree that lithium-ion batteries can, and should, be classed as high-risk, and I hope that this amendment is protected as the Bill progresses through its remaining stages. If the Government intend to classify these batteries as high-risk, there is no harm in putting that into primary legislation. I would be grateful if the Minister could share what work is ongoing in his Department and the Department for Transport to deal with e-bike and e-scooter batteries.

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

I thank the hon. Member for Wokingham for moving the new clause and giving the Committee the opportunity to hear from the Government on this issue.

The matter was raised extensively during proceedings on the Bill in the other place, and in the evidence that the Committee has received from members of the public and important public bodies, including fire services across the UK. It would be interesting to hear from the Minister about the existing scope in UK law to regulate lithium-ion batteries, as well as the power that the Bill gives the Minister to address a product that all too often causes horrendous fires. Many of our constituents will have heard of or have been affected by this issue, so I look forward to hearing from him.

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[Clive Jones]

I thank the Minister for his response and the hon. Member for West Worcestershire for her remarks. The Government accept that the batteries are high risk—which is welcome—so why not name them in the Bill? Consumers, firefighters and local authorities all want clarity and action. If the Bill is not the right vehicle, what is, and when will we see it? I intend to press the new clause to a Division.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

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Brought up, and read the First time.

[Clive Jones]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

The new clause aims to ensure that online marketplaces are subject to clear, enforceable duties to protect consumers against unsafe products. Despite online marketplaces playing a central role in today’s retail environment, they often operate without the same responsibilities as traditional retailers, despite facilitating the sale of millions of pounds of goods to UK consumers.

The new clause would put some common-sense requirements on online marketplaces. For example, it would require platforms to have effective systems in place to monitor and detect unsafe products and block them from being sold, and it includes a clear duty to remove unsafe products quickly once a risk has been flagged. Those basic consumer protection principles are applied to bricks-and-mortar retailers, so why not to online retailers? No platform should be able to profit from unsafe goods while claiming that it has no responsibility for what is sold.

The current system simply is not working: 85% of the toys tested by the British Toy & Hobby Association, across 11 online marketplaces, failed toy safety testing and were delisted from sale. Despite that, it found that 72% of seemingly identical unsafe toys were back on sale, with 41% being sold by the same retailer. On testing a sample of 25 of the toys, all 25—100%—failed toy safety testing.

As we modernise our product safety regime, we must ensure that online marketplaces are held to the same high standards as bricks-and-mortar shops. Bricks-and-mortar toy retailers are expected to deliver much more, with fewer resources. Some 80% of UK toy retailers are SMEs. If they want to supply a manufacturer’s product, they are obliged to ensure that the manufacturer has carried out the relevant compliance regulations. Additionally, importers have certain obligations and have to ensure that others have been carried out. Online marketplaces are not required to do any of this.

Meanwhile, third-party sellers are often able to evade compliance with safety regulations, as online marketplaces have no obligation to verify that those sellers have met their legal responsibilities. Third-party sellers are often difficult or impossible to trace for enforcement. This means the cost of producing their toys is lower, so third-party sellers are able to sell their products more cheaply. The new clause would deliver fairness and essential protections. By embedding baseline requirements directly in primary legislation, the Bill will close regulatory gaps and ensure that secondary legislation can build on a solid foundation.

Before I conclude, another issue that needs to be addressed is counterfeit products. Because of a lack of traceability and enforcement, many products sold in online marketplaces are counterfeit, leaving British consumers at risk of substandard goods that pose a risk to their health and waste their money. What are the Government doing to stop that? What steps has the Minister taken to ensure that there is a level playing field between the high street and online marketplaces? Will he meet me to discuss the matter further, with the British Toy & Hobby Association?

[Dame Harriett Baldwin]

I thank the hon. Member for Wokingham for raising this incredibly important and wide-ranging issue. He touched on some of its growing importance in the UK, where consumers are buying more and more products online. The hon. Gentleman brings his valuable expertise from the toy and hobby sector to the discussion. Above all, we would be particularly concerned if harmful toys were to find their way to consumers, and indeed they do. Some 80% of the toys purchased from online marketplaces that were tested by the British Toy & Hobby Association were found to be illegal due to missing warning signs.

As this issue has been included in the Bill, I know that the Government intend to use this legislation to deal with it. From the many speeches made on Second Reading, I know that this subject exercises colleagues across the House. I look forward to hearing from the Minister how he will use the powers in the Bill to deal with this important issue.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the hon. Member for Wokingham for moving the new clause, which would require the Secretary of State to introduce a list of duties on online marketplaces and to make a statement within three months of Royal Assent.

As Members have recognised throughout the debate, online marketplaces now play a significant role in the supply chain and must be explicitly recognised in the product safety regulatory framework. We all recognise that they provide consumers with greater choice and convenience, but of course that cannot come at the cost of compromised consumer safety and of disadvantaging compliant businesses, so I recognise and share the new clause’s intent.

However, some of the requirements in the new clause are of the type that the Government are developing for consultation and will thereafter introduce using the Bill’s powers. We intend to introduce requirements that build on best practice to create a proportionate regulatory framework where online marketplaces: take steps to prevent unsafe products from being made available to consumers; ensure that sellers operating on their platform comply with product safety obligations; provide relevant information to consumers; and co-operate closely with regulators. The framework will also include, if necessary, powers to deal with stolen or counterfeit products, as the hon. Member for Wokingham mentioned.

The Bill provides the opportunity to develop requirements following consultation—as required by clause 12(6)—stakeholder engagement, impact assessments and consideration of the practical implications, including whether requirements should be tailored to specific business activities to ensure proportionality. The new clause, however, would require the introduction of its specified obligations irrespective of the outcome of any consultation or impact assessment, and of consideration of whether that would be proportionate or effective across the range of online marketplace models.

We expect the diversity and market share of e-commerce to continue to grow, and the ways that UK consumers purchase products to evolve in ways that we are not yet able to predict. It is therefore important that the product safety legal framework remains flexible, so that it can adapt to future changes while remaining proportionate for different business models. I am afraid that the new clause would significantly hinder that flexibility by mandating that online marketplaces’ duties must include requirements relating to those in the new clause.

I assure the hon. Member for Wokingham that our intent is to introduce, at the earliest opportunity, new regulations on online marketplaces that are proportionate and future-proof and that prioritise consumer safety. The regulations will of course be informed by public consultation and subject to the affirmative procedure. I am happy to meet the hon. Member to discuss this issue further, because there is an important role moving forward. I am happy to engage with Members in all parts of the House to ensure that we get it right. In the meantime, I ask him to withdraw his new clause.

[Clive Jones]

I thank the Minister for his response and for agreeing to meet me. I hope he will be happy if I bring along the British Toy & Hobby Association, because it will have a wealth of evidence for him.

I reiterate that 85% of tested toys failed toy safety standards, yet those products still reach children through online marketplaces with little or no accountability. How is that defensible? Bricks-and-mortar toy shops face far stricter obligations. There is not a level playing field and it is not safe. I intend to press the new clause to a Division.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

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Brought up, and read the First time.

[Clive Jones]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second Time.

The Government can legislate all they like, but if local law enforcement bodies such as trading standards are not properly funded or supported, laws risk becoming paper promises rather than practical protections. A large share of responsibility for the areas within the scope of the Bill, including product safety enforcement, falls to trading standards services within local authorities, which is why we tabled new clause 13. We want to ensure that trading standards authorities have the resources, skills and capacity they need to enforce the regulations created by the Bill.

The capability and capacity of trading standards to enforce not just this legislation but a wider body of trading standards and consumer protection law is vital. The point is simple: effective enforcement is the backbone of consumer confidence and fair trading, but local trading standards teams are stretched, under-resourced and often unable to respond to the volume and complexity of modern marketplace issues. The Chartered Trading Standards Institute says that spending on trading standards services has been cut by more than 50% over the past decade, and that staffing levels have fallen by 30% to 50% over the same period. Overall, trading standards services are frequently unable to fulfil their duties and have very limited ability to make the changes needed to address new harms in the UK’s increasingly digital economy.

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[Clive Jones]

I thank the Minister for his response. I am disappointed that he is not willing to back the new clause, which simply asks for transparency about enforcement capacity. Trading standards cannot enforce laws. It does not have the people or funding for it, and right now it is being asked to do more with less. The Bill risks being toothless without the resources to back it up. I intend to press the new clause to a Division.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.