Children’s Mental Health

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Maggie Throup]

I will make progress because we are short of time and I want to give plenty of time for Back Benchers to contribute.

More than 420,000 children and young people were treated through NHS-commissioned mental health community services in 2020-21, which was almost 100,000 more than three years ago. The NHS children and young people’s mental health workforce has seen growth of 40% from 11,000 whole-time equivalents in 2019 to 15,486 whole-time equivalents in 2021.

Early intervention and mental wellbeing support in schools and colleges can prevent poor mental wellbeing from developing into mental illness. We remain committed to the proposals set out in the Green Paper to roll out mental health support teams based in schools and colleges and staffed by mental health professionals. There are now more than 280 teams set up or in training, with 183 of those teams operational and ready to support young people in around 3,000 schools and colleges. I am really pleased that we have been able to accelerate that programme to meet our original target a year early and then reach around 35% of pupils through 399 mental health support teams by 2023.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

A number of parents in my constituency have contacted me with worries about their children and how best they can support them. We know that parental support in the family can lead to great improvements in children’s mental health. What information is the Minister making available to parents on how best they can support their children when they are having difficulties with their health?

[Maggie Throup]

My hon. Friend makes a really good point, and I know that she has lots of experience on this issue from a clinician’s point of view. She is right to say that families play a very important role. In her absence, may I offer my hon. Friend a meeting with the Minister for Care and Mental Health, because she will be able to go into much more detail than I can at the Dispatch Box?

Elective Treatment

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Lady is of course right to talk about the importance of health inequalities. I hope that when she has had time to look at the plan she will see just how seriously the NHS and the Government take that. More broadly, I will have a lot more to say about tackling health inequalities shortly. Of course, the hon. Lady is right that there need to be alternatives to digital access for those who cannot easily access digital, be it through a web platform or the NHS app. There are alternatives in place, but I hope she agrees that for those who can use digital tools, we should make them part of the offering. The new “my planned care” service will be hugely important in providing more transparency than ever before, but also in helping people prepare for their surgical procedures. She may have heard me say earlier than one third of on-the-day cancellations of surgical procedures happen because people were not prepared.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

I declare my interest as an NHS doctor and I echo much of what has been said by colleagues across the House about the workforce challenges.

As the Secretary of State said, covid has been a huge challenge to the NHS and it is a testament to NHS workers that cancer treatment was maintained at 94% of pre-pandemic levels throughout the pandemic and that 95% of people who needed cancer treatment started that within a month. However, I am sure the Secretary of State agrees that one month is a very long and frightening time to know that cancer is growing inside and that every day’s delay could be the day that costs your life. How does he intend to reduce that time and what will be his target from diagnosis to treatment?

[Sajid Javid]

I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of the workforce. She is right to raise the importance of cancer care and to note that it has remained a huge priority for the NHS despite all the pressures of the pandemic. In the plan that we are publishing today, we have set out a number of cancer targets. They are all very ambitious with record amounts of investment. Once my hon. Friend has looked at the plan, I would be happy to discuss it further with her, either the cancer aspects or anything else.

Elective Care Recovery in England

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Edward Argar]

The hon. Gentleman and I have previously met to discuss this issue, and I share his view on the value of radiotherapy in helping to tackle the cancer backlog, and more broadly as a treatment. Ministers and I are always happy to meet him.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

My hon. Friend spoke earlier of this Government’s record level of investment in the NHS, but each patient waiting for cancer treatment is undergoing a very long and frightening experience as they wait longer than needed. As he focuses on reducing this backlog, how will he ensure that the record level of investment is focused directly only on measures that will reduce the backlog and is not wasted?

[Edward Argar]

My hon. Friend knows of what she speaks, as a serving consultant in our NHS. She is right that investment is important but that the outcomes are what really matter. We have set out measures such as the community diagnostic hubs, which are bringing diagnostic capacity to local communities and making it more accessible. That is just one example of how we will ensure that the money delivers the required outcomes.

Vaccination Strategy

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 12th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am going to hand over to my colleague in the Chair, but before I do so, to help the Minister I remind Members that we still have some nurses who can give injections at a pop-up in the House of Commons.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

I declare my interest as a consultant paediatrician working in the NHS and as a volunteer vaccinator. I am very proud to be part of the vaccination programme that has undoubtedly saved so very many lives.

I want to focus on children. I have worked in hospital over the past month and have been looking after children who have had positive tests. That is not unexpected because the virus is high in the population and of course we test everybody. However, I have not been looking after children who were admitted because of covid. In September, we heard that the decision on whether to offer children vaccines was finely balanced. Indeed, the JCVI referred that decision to the chief medical officers, who finally decided, on the basis of educational disruption, to offer children vaccines. Given that omicron is less harmful than the variants we were considering at the time, has the Minister asked the JCVI and the CMOs to consider whether these vaccines are still, on balance, better for children than not—except, perhaps, in the context of travel?

[Maggie Throup]

I thank my hon. Friend for her role in vaccinating probably thousands of people by now. Everybody has played their part, using their skills and their time to roll out the vaccination programme in such an amazing way. I assure my hon. Friend, who obviously has an awful lot of expertise and knowledge, that JCVI continually looks at the data. We hear announcements from the JCVI and think they are just about what it has considered on that particular day, but I assure the House that it continually looks at the data to make sure that we move forward in the right manner.

Public Health

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I think both have a role to play. In the NHS and in social care, there is very frequent testing—lateral flow testing, in the case of the NHS, and often PCR testing—but I think vaccination has a role to play. At this point in time, many people still have two doses; that is rapidly changing. When they have a third dose or their booster dose, that gives them an even higher degree of protection.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

I draw attention to my entry on the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The Secretary of State is making a very clear argument for the need to do something; he talks about how a very small proportion of a much larger number of cases could overwhelm the NHS in the way that a larger proportion of a much smaller number of cases might not. However, we know that the NHS has a huge backlog of people awaiting diagnostic and operative procedures. What evidence does he have that mandating vaccines for NHS staff will help? Given that we know that vaccination does not particularly reduce transmission, and given what he has said about the importance of choice, why does he not think that it would be reasonable to offer medical staff and nursing staff the option of daily testing instead of vaccination, should they make that choice?

[Sajid Javid]

In coming to this decision, we held an extensive consultation with thousands of responses. Importantly, we also consulted with the NHS itself; as I shall touch on in a moment, it has weighed up the decision. My hon. Friend is right if she is suggesting that there may be some people who choose to leave the NHS rather than stay and be vaccinated—that is a choice for them to make, but there is also an issue of patient safety. That is also the view of the NHS. As I said in response to my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis), testing can be used alongside, but vaccinations help as well.

I want to talk about settings.

Covid-19 Update

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I do, of course, back any working together, whether it is of local government, the NHS or directors of public health, to help to combat this pandemic. They are doing a stellar job across the country, especially on vaccination.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

One of the most significant harms over the last 18 months or so of restrictions has been the effect on our children and schoolchildren. I welcome the fact that instead of causing another pingdemic and having teachers and students out of school isolating, the Government have said that children will not need to isolate but will be able to use testing instead. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that that will be lateral flow testing and not PCR testing, for which they need an appointment? Can he tell us that we have enough tests if the scale of increase in cases is as he has said, and can he confirm to this House that he will resist any restrictions on schoolchildren?

[Sajid Javid]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. There is nothing more important in our society than our children. As a nation we have, like many other nations, learned a lot during the pandemic about some of the better ways to handle the concerns around the pandemic but better protect our schoolchildren. I am happy to confirm what she has said. If there is a positive case in a child, of course that individual child would isolate like anyone else, but any contacts of that child would not have to isolate. Instead, they can take lateral flow tests, not PCR tests.

Smoking Cessation: Prescription of E-cigarettes

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Maggie Throup]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right that our goal is to help people to stop smoking completely. My heart goes out to him regarding the story about his mother. My father was a smoker and it damaged his health as well. We all have these personal stories. The evidence is clear that e-cigarettes are less harmful to health than smoking tobacco and are an effective way to help people to stop smoking, but, as the hon. Gentleman said, there is always more to be done.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

History has shown us that an absence of evidence of long-term harm is not the same as evidence of absence of long-term harm. Indeed, in the 1940s, conventional cigarettes were considered healthy. With that in mind, how will the Minister ensure that children are protected from breathing in the vapes of e-cigarettes, prescribed or otherwise, and that their prescription by a doctor is not seen as a green light that they are healthy, encouraging uptake among teenagers?

[Maggie Throup]

My hon. Friend is right that e-cigarettes are just a gateway to stopping smoking completely. That is the ultimate goal. We want to ensure that people go from smoking to e-cigarettes, and then to no smoking at all.

NHS Dentistry: Lincolnshire

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

Smiles are very important. When we smile, it makes us happier and it makes those around us happier, but unfortunately many of my constituents are struggling to smile because they have problems with their teeth and just cannot get an NHS dental appointment. That has left some of them in very significant pain and discomfort.

Many constituents have contacted me to share their experiences: people waiting years to access NHS dental care; children unable to access NHS orthodontic care, with a choice between hugely expensive private treatment and doing without; service families posted to Lincolnshire struggling to get an appointment. Figures show that just 41% of adults in Lincolnshire have accessed NHS dental care in the past two years, and less than a third of children have accessed it in the last year.

Access to specialist treatment is even more limited. Lincolnshire has gone from having three full-time consultants in orthodontics, based in Boston, Grantham and Lincoln, to just one permanent consultant two days a week, based in Lincoln. Unlike neighbouring counties in the east midlands, Lincolnshire has no specialist dental services either in paediatrics or in restorative dentistry, which means significant travel out of county for patients who require more specialist help.

It is therefore perhaps not surprising that 80% of Healthwatch complaints in Lincolnshire relate to problems with access to NHS dental services. I would like to speak about how we could improve the situation for my constituents.

[Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

The circumstances are just as bad as my hon. Friend suggests. Indeed, Lincolnshire is the worst served of any midlands county, with the lowest proportion of dentists in the population. There are detrimental effects on children, as she said, and it is the poor who tend to suffer most. Finally, given her professional expertise, I wonder whether she could comment on those who have undiagnosed conditions that a visit to the dentist might reveal, notably oral cancer.

[Dr Johnson]

My right hon. Friend is a big champion for his constituents and for ensuring that they have good dental care. My hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), who cannot be here this evening, is also vigorously campaigning to improve access to dental care in rural areas such as her constituency, particularly in Mablethorpe, where urgent care has now been restored and where she is committed to seeing non-urgent care renewed.

The journey to being a dentist begins at university dental schools, which are heavily over-subscribed. The Government trained 21% more dentists in 2018-19 than in 2008-09. It was forward-thinking of them to increase the number of dentists; given the increase of only 7% in population, one would have expected it to result in more dental care. However, that has not happened in practice, for two reasons: partly the increase in part-time working and flexible working, but particularly the dramatic increase in the number of dentists working in the private sector as opposed to the NHS. What is the Minister doing to increase the number of dental students still further? What is she doing to ensure that they are trained particularly in areas of low provision?

I note that there is currently no university dental school in the east midlands—or in East Anglia either, in fact. It is well known that people often stay where they train; it is therefore perhaps not surprising that there are fewer dentists in Lincolnshire. Does the Minister agree that, building on the success of the Government’s investment in opening a new medical school in Lincoln to train more doctors, we should build an east midlands dental school in Lincoln, creating a centre of excellence locally for specialist services and thereby increasing the number of local dentists being trained?

There is already a precedent for opening dental schools in under-served areas: the last school was opened in Plymouth to serve a deficit in the south-west. Following the establishment of Lincoln Medical School, the addition of an adjunct dental school would be a welcome addition to Lincolnshire and the surrounding area. It would boost training and skills opportunities for young people in Lincolnshire and the wider east midlands and increase the retention of new local dentists, while helping to address access to routine NHS dental care and specialist care for patients. I also ask the Minister what efforts are being made to increase local specialist provision for paediatrics and restorative dentistry.

Following their university careers, graduates become foundation trainees, and we need to look at where we place our foundation trainers and trainees. Newly qualified dentists need to work in a foundation job to get an NHS provider number, but they can work in a private practice without one. That is something of a disincentive for people to work as NHS dentists. We also need to consider where the postgraduate training takes place. For example, there are currently six full-time training places at Grantham Hospital, just outside my constituency, but this year it has been given only two new graduates to fill those places. That is creating a reliance on temporary and overseas staff to deliver services, but it also means that there will be fewer dentists trained locally and therefore fewer dentists for the population.

Does the Minister agree that all new dentists should work their foundation year in the NHS, as doctors do, and does she agree that, given that trainees often stay where they train, the foundation places in areas of low provision should be filled first? Would she consider “golden hellos”, such as those provided in some medical specialties in areas with low provision, to attract more dentists to under-served areas?

At the heart of the issue of NHS dentists moving into the private sector is the current target-based dental contract that was introduced by the Labour Government in 2006. It was widely considered unfit for purpose even before the pandemic, which has only served to highlight its flaws, and I am aware that the Government are rightly looking to replace it. The present system effectively sets quotas on the number of patients whom a dentist can see. NHS dentists are commissioned to deliver a set number of units of dental activity—UDAs—which caps the number of dental procedures that they can perform in a given year. If they deliver over 4% more than they have been commissioned to deliver, they are not paid for the extra work; moreover, they have to bear the cost themselves of any materials used, any laboratory work, and all other overheads. That penalises dentists who treat patients in the greatest need.

The contract also penalises dentists who under-deliver on the activity that they were commissioned to deliver, perhaps owing to difficulties in filling a practice vacancy. In addition, it pays a set amount for particular types of treatment, regardless of the number of teeth that need to be treated. For example, a dentist would be paid three units of dental activity—worth an average of £75 —for one simple extraction, but would also be paid £75 for an entire course of treatment including six fillings, three extractions and a root canal treatment, which would not be enough to cover their overheads. That means that the system effectively punishes dentists for taking on new patients with high levels of dental need.

There is also—believe it or not—a huge variation in the value of UDAs. I said that the average was £75, but in fact, across England, dental practices are paid anything between £15 and £45 per unit of dental activity delivered, with an average value of £27.50. In Lincolnshire and Leicestershire, the value is between £18 and £38, with an average value of £25. For example, in Spalding, Lincolnshire—in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes)—two NHS practices just over a mile apart are being paid £23 and £28 per UDA respectively, a difference of more than 20% for the same work in the same town. That illustrates how dysfunctional Labour’s dental contract has become, making it more difficult for practices with lower UDA rates to recruit because they cannot pay the dentists whom they hire as much for the same work. When we compare this with private practice, where remuneration is based on actual work done, it is clear why this flawed contract has had a devastating impact on recruitment and retention among NHS dentists.

Research by the British Dental Association shows that nearly half all dentists plan to stop providing NHS services or to reduce their NHS commitment, and more than a quarter plan to move to fully private provision in the next 12 months. That has been seen in Lincolnshire, where there has been a net drop of 30 dentists providing NHS services in the year to the end of April 2021.

I am pleased that the Government have recognised the problems that this contract is creating, and are piloting alternatives. It is crucial that they deliver on their commitment to roll out new contractual arrangements by April 2022. Within the new contract, remuneration needs not only to reflect the number of dentists working in high-need areas, but to address the problems of attracting dentists to work in rural areas.

Dentists trained overseas can play an important role in filling vacancies in under-served areas. They already contribute to our NHS, and many more wish to come here, but despite the lack of NHS provision, dentists are not currently on the shortage occupation list. Moreover, it is possible for dentists from countries such as those in the EU where we recognise the equivalence of university dental qualifications to come and work here in the private sector immediately, but additional paperwork and training, with additional costs, are required for them to work in the national health service. That is a clear disincentive to working in our health service, and I would like the Minister to elaborate on what she is doing to remove bureaucratic burdens such as those that limit NHS capacity.

The covid pandemic has further exacerbated problems with access to NHS dentistry. In the spring of 2020, all routine dental care in England was necessarily paused for two months. With social distancing, gaps between treatments and decontamination between patients having been essential since then, dentists have been able to see only a fraction of their usual patient numbers. In North Kesteven alone, 22,733 NHS dental appointments were lost between April 2020 and March 2021, further adding to the unprecedented backlog.

In the short term, to address the impact of covid-19 infection prevention and control protocols limiting the number of patients who can be seen, funding for ventilation equipment could drastically reduce the time lost between seeing patients by reducing the number of times the air is changed over an hour. Currently, after each aerosol-generating procedure—which includes most courses of dental treatment including drilling—dentists are required to leave the treatment room empty for up to an hour, which dramatically lowers the number of patients they are able to treat. The experience of my constituent Emma highlights this. Her seven-year-old daughter is still waiting for a routine check-up from November 2019, and Emma is being told that the surgery is running at 50% capacity due to coronavirus prevention controls.

This fallow time can be reduced, and patient throughput increased, by installing high-capacity ventilation. However, this can cost a practice up to £10,000. England does not currently invest in ventilation for dental practices, although the devolved nations of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland do. Capital funding for ventilation equipment would have a transformative effect on the throughput of patients, and would in effect pay for itself through increased patient charge revenues from paying NHS patients. Could the Minister please outline what review mechanisms are in place to reduce dentists’ covid measures—particularly now that the fantastic vaccine programme this Government have put in place means that more than 90% of people have antibodies—so that dentists can increase capacity from 65% to 100%?

Lincolnshire is proud to be the home of the Royal Air Force, including RAF Cranwell, RAF Digby and RAF Barkston Heath, which are in my constituency of Sleaford and North Hykeham. Repeatedly moving location can pose particular difficulties for service families as they find themselves on lengthy dentists’ waiting lists. My constituent Karen waited five years for her and her three children to access an NHS dentist after her husband was posted to my constituency, and she is still having difficulties in securing adjustments for her disabled son. Our veterans, cared for by the Ministry of Defence during their service, often find it difficult to get an NHS dentist at the point of retirement. The Armed Forces Bill will enshrine in law the military covenant, our commitment to our brave service personnel and their families. Will the Minister outline what work she is doing to ensure that military families and veterans can access high quality NHS dental care wherever they move to, in order to meet their particular challenges of moving around frequently?

Without significant changes soon, the problems facing NHS dentistry in access and in the recruitment and retention of dentists will continue to grow. My constituents in Lincolnshire deserve to be able to see an NHS dentist, and dentists working in Lincolnshire deserve a contract that correctly rewards them for the work they do and addresses the perverse incentives that currently exist. After a decade of work on the new system, there can be no more delays. I hope the Minister can give me assurances that the Government will stick to their commitment to roll out new contractual arrangements by April 2022, so that my constituents can smile once more.

--- Later in debate ---

[Maria Caulfield]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and across Government Departments we are discussing the provision of both general practitioners and dentists for new developments. I am keen that dentistry is on a par with GP provision, because it is often an afterthought. I am keen that we push it up the agenda, and this debate helps.

[Dr Caroline Johnson]

Will dentists have a voice on care panels in the new integrated care systems?

[Maria Caulfield]

I thank my hon. Friend for that query. I am keen that dentistry has a louder voice than it does now.

As I was saying, part of this debate is about raising the profile of the issue. I reassure her that there are a number of things happening, particularly in her region. NHS England Midlands and East, which covers the east of England, is putting in place a number of initiatives, about which I wish to reassure her. Additional weekend dental sessions are going to be commissioned, to take place up to March next year. There will be additional clinical capacity to reduce waiting lists where a general anaesthetic is required, particularly for children. NHS England has also begun a procurement exercise to address the lack of orthodontic access across the region, particularly in Lincolnshire. To get us through the pandemic recovery phase, we will work closely with NHS England to ensure that that is happening as fast as possible.

In the short time available, I wish to turn to the long-term plan to address the shortfall that was there before the pandemic. We are taking up some of the suggestions that my hon. Friend has made so eloquently in this debate. The core of that is about ensuring that the NHS dental contract is renewed, because we are in a perverse situation where the contract sometimes acts as a disincentive. She made points about over-delivering or under-delivering; people can be penalised, and we can understand why dentists walk away from NHS contracts. This Government are focused on addressing that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Maria Caulfield]

I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that issue with her. She represents a coastal constituency, and this emphasises the point about where there seem to be gaps in provision.

I am pleased that we are being able to take specific action, both nationally and locally, to improve recruitment and retention, because that is key. This includes widening access to dental careers and utilising the skill mix in dental practices. It is not always the dentists who need to be used and we need to upskill some of the dental workers in dentistry too, so that we can understand the oral health needs of patients in specific communities. As part of that work, Health Education England is looking to address regional shortages by ensuring that training place numbers are better aligned with the needs of local populations and that we are targeting provision. I take the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham about a dental school and I will look at that suggestion. She rightly says that students tend to stay where they train, and we need to look at where the gaps are. The number of dental school places is increasing and we are getting more students through, but I will look at her suggestion.

I feel that I have not specifically addressed the situation in Lincolnshire as a whole, which is the subject of the debate, so let me reassure my hon. Friend that a number of measures are in place to address the issues there. We have introduced additional face-to-face weekend dental sessions from August this year through to March next year; there are dedicated urgent dental slots for 111 patients; and we are trying to address some specific local gaps in Mablethorpe by commissioning urgent NHS dental care sessions on a temporary basis. We also want to improve recruitment and retention specifically in my hon. Friend’s area. Health Education England is working in Lincolnshire to recruit newly trained dentists but should perhaps look at a dental school to support that effort even further.

My hon. Friend raised orthodontic issues, which are very important for young people’s health. NHS England Midlands and East has begun a procurement exercise to address some of the backlog. Patients with a clinical need to start treatment quickly will be contacted. I reassure the House that any patient who was referred before they turned 18 but has not yet started treatment will still get free treatment, even after their 18th birthday, because the backlogs are not their fault.

I know that I have not answered all my hon. Friend’s questions, but I hope she knows that we take this issue extremely seriously. The provision of dentistry is a complex policy area for which there is no quick solution, so I shall not make promises tonight that we cannot deliver, but we are serious about trying to address the issues. I hope I have been able to provide some reassurance that, although this issue is challenging, as the new Minister responsible for dentistry I am committed to playing my part in not only supporting the covid recovery but driving forward long-term improvements. We want to see a contract that is attractive for professionals and that ensures equality of access for all, across rural regions and coastal regions.

[Dr Caroline Johnson]

Before the Minister sits down, may I ask her to meet me later this week, or perhaps next week, to discuss further the impact on military personnel in particular?

[Maria Caulfield]

Yes, absolutely. I have not been able to address that in my speech but I am keen to meet my hon. Friend and other colleagues who have particular shortages in their areas. I want to hear what is happening on the ground and make sure, as we go forward, that the problems are addressed and we start to see improvements. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend and other colleagues.

Question put and agreed to.

Covid-19 Vaccinations: 12 to 15-year-olds

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Monday 13th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Nadhim Zahawi]

The hon. Lady asked a number of questions that I will try to address in order. She asked about the JCVI’s remit, which was very much around what it is clinically qualified to address. That is why it advised that the CMOs needed to look at the wider impact on children specifically. There was no issue at all around shortage of vaccines, and I am confident that we have the vaccine supply that we need for both this recommendation, which we are accepting, and the booster campaign.

It was important that the JCVI took its time and looked at both first-dose and second-dose data on the rare signal around myocarditis and pericarditis. The United Kingdom has sometimes been an outlier to other nations, but on the whole we have got these decisions right because we rely on that expert clinical advice. I hope that gives reassurance to families up and down the country.

On vaccine passports, the Secretary of State for Health made it clear that we will not go ahead with vaccine certification for nightclubs or other venues. No one—certainly not on the Government side—would have moved forward with that happily. [Interruption.] If we are to have a grown-up debate, it is important for the whole House to remember that the virus is still with us and that we all want the same thing: to transition it from pandemic to endemic status so that we can have a sustainable return to normality as quickly as possible.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

I have given many vaccines in my time, including hundreds of covid vaccines more recently, but I am not comfortable with vaccinating teenagers to prevent educational disruption. Under the current rules, no child needs to isolate if they are a contact. They do so only if they are a positive case and, for them, the maximum is eight days of schooling—and that is only if they catch coronavirus during term time. Half of children have already had it and are very unlikely to get it again. Does the Minister therefore really believe that vaccinating 3 million children to prevent an average of four days or less off school is reasonable?

[Nadhim Zahawi]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s important question, and I thank her for the work she has done and continues to do on the vaccination programme. All I would say to her is that I think it is important that the Government accept the final decision—the unanimous decision—of the four chief medical officers for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and offer the vaccine. Of course, parental consent will be sought, but it is only right that we offer the one-dose vaccine to 12 to 15-year-olds as per the advice received today.

Covid-19 Update

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Nadhim Zahawi]

I do not disagree with the hon. Lady; I know what she is talking about. She will have seen the interim advice from the JCVI on phase 1, which is for categories 1 to 4, and phase 2, which is for categories 5 to 9—including category 6, the largest category of those people she describes. The JCVI has yet to deliver its final advice post the cov-boost study data. As we have done throughout the deployment, we will follow the JCVI advice.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

The JCVI has assessed the known risks and benefits of the covid vaccine for 12 to 15-year-olds and has not recommended it. As the Minister said, the Health Secretary has now referred the matter to the chief medical officers so that they can look at it from a so-called “broader perspective”. Now that children are attending school, half of them have had covid already, they do not need to isolate unless they test positive and they do not need to isolate if they are merely a contact, does the Minister agree that disruption to education will now be much less severe? Furthermore, does he agree that it is not reasonable to use political decisions about schools as leverage to force vaccines on a population of children?

[Nadhim Zahawi]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s very thoughtful question. I can reassure her that there is no political decision making; the process that the chief medical officers are undertaking is unencumbered by any political motivation whatsoever. We will absolutely follow their advice, and the JCVI is in the room as they are deliberating. It is important to recall that the JCVI advice was that vaccination is marginally more beneficial to healthy 12 to 15-year olds than non-vaccination, but not enough to recommend a universal vaccination programme. It is also worth reminding the House that we have been vaccinating 12 to 15-year-olds who are more vulnerable to serious infection and hospitalisation, as the JCVI recommended.