Armed Forces

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I, too, welcome this debate and this opportunity to celebrate our armed forces.

Very few communities are more shaped by their relationship with our armed forces than my constituency of Gosport. One need only look at the scale of our community engagement in events such as the Remembrance Sunday parade, where thousands of people turn out to watch representatives from all our military establishments parade through the town. Last year saw the parade for the 30th anniversary of the Falklands war, when veterans from around the UK came to the town of Gosport. Indeed, two of my favourite Doorkeepers from the House of Commons were among those who took the time to parade through Gosport. The Falklands Veterans Foundation is based in Gosport, offering invaluable support to our brave veterans.

Everywhere you look in my constituency, Mr Deputy Speaker, there are historic buildings that tell the story of our armed forces through the ages. You may not be aware that it has even crept into our daily language. The expression “Up the creek without a paddle”, or more colourful variations thereof, originated from Haslar creek, where back in Nelson’s day wounded sailors were taken up to the Royal Navy Hospital Haslar to recover, or otherwise. Of course, in those days they were not necessarily as keen to be part of the Royal Navy as people might be these days. They were held prisoner so that they did not desert while being treated, and some tried to escape by going through the sewers to the creek. I hope that these days people are much more inclined to remain part of our armed forces.

It is estimated that the armed forces community in Gosport comprises about 5,500 people. We have a very proud military wives choir—Portsmouth and Gosport military wives choir—and I went to hear them record tracks for their album. Fortunately they did not make me sing, which would have been a disaster for all concerned.

Gosport also has a high proportion of people who are in receipt of armed forces pensions. At one in 16, it is the highest proportion in Hampshire and the second highest in England.

The armed forces community covenant was signed by Hampshire county council in June 2011. Last November, on Remembrance Sunday, the Gosport armed forces community covenant was established to formally acknowledge Gosport’s long affiliation with the armed forces. Those covenants are voluntary statements of mutual support between the civilian community and serving and former members of the armed forces and their families. Above all, they are about respect underlined with action.

The demands imposed on the armed forces in the course of their duties are unique and set them apart from others who serve and protect our society. However, there is the potential for disadvantage if national and local government policies, as well as local communities, do not tackle the problems that military families encounter.

One of those issues is the opportunity to balance military and family life. That is a particular problem in the Royal Navy, which has the most unfavourable harmony arrangements of the three main services. That is why it is so important that shore-based military training is delivered as close as is possible to the big military communities. In Gosport, the marine engineering training at HMS Sultan, which is rated outstanding by Ofsted, gives Navy families a rare opportunity to live as a normal family, with husbands and wives coming home every evening.

Another big challenge is service mobility, which risks disadvantaging personnel and their dependants with regard to access to local public services, such as doctors surgeries, schools and social housing. The rate of home ownership is lower among service personnel than in the nation as a whole. Accessing school places has always been a challenge. The pupil premium that forces families now receive is hugely welcome. However, accessing school places continues to be a challenge. In big military communities, it is difficult for schools to maintain places for forces families. One of my constituents has five children at four different schools, which causes enormous difficulty.

The final problem relates to ongoing treatment and support. Serving in the armed forces comes with the inherent risk of serious physical and mental injury, which can result in the need for ongoing treatment and welfare support for service people and their families. I have talked about the legacy of the military buildings in Gosport, but there is a legacy in the people too. Many of my constituents have served in the armed forces. Many have given up the best years of their life and their good health for our country. Tragically, this country has not always given enough back. I have been troubled on countless occasions by the stories of ex-service personnel who have not received the help that they need to make the difficult transition from the front line to civvy street.

Many community organisations in my constituency help service personnel who have not made that transition very well. The veteran mentors scheme that is run by the Hampshire probation trust helps former service people who find themselves on the wrong side of the law by giving them mentors who have also been in the armed forces. As we all know, the armed forces, and the Royal Navy in particular, have their own language. I often receive e-mails that say “BZ” at the end. As you will know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that means “well done”. I hope that those people feel the same way after I have finished making this speech. It is important that military personnel are mentored by people who share that common language.

I am proud of some of the things that the Government have achieved. Taking the armed forces covenant seriously has been a great achievement. I am proud that they are finally addressing the inequality with regard to medals for Arctic convoy and Bomber Command veterans. As a country, we are right to be proud of our military past. We can now be proud of the future that we are securing for our service people and veterans.

Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Francois]

The decision to sign a community covenant is a matter for individual local authorities, but we obviously encourage all local authorities across the country to sign up to a community covenant to show their support for the armed forces family—the wider armed forces community. I hope that will apply to the local authorities in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

I make that about 23 seconds.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating Gosport borough council, which adopted its version of the military covenant at the tail end of last year? Will he update the House on the progress that has been made in the take-up of community covenants?

[Mr Francois]

As I said, more than half the local authorities in Great Britain have signed the community covenant, and I am pleased to say that they are coming in all the time. I am really encouraged by the number of local authorities at all tiers of local government that have been signing community covenants to demonstrate their support for the armed forces community, and I am very pleased to hear that that spirit is alive and well in Gosport.

Katrice Lee

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I am grateful for the chance to contribute to this debate and thank the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) for giving me time to speak. I pay tribute to his consistently effective and diligent support of Mr Lee and the family in this terrible and tragic case.

The hon. Gentleman has more than adequately summed up our shared concerns about the failures of the initial investigation and the subsequent handling of the case, so I will not go into that any further. However, I want to speak briefly on behalf of my constituents, Katrice’s mum, Sharon Lee, and sister, Natasha. Like Katrice’s father, they have endured three decades of suffering, not knowing what happened to this much-loved little girl on that awful day in 1981. It is vital that their voices are now heard after decades of frustration, that appropriate empathy is shown after years of disregard, and that action is taken to show that we care equally about the life of every missing child and every grief stricken parent.

Katrice’s mum, Sharon, first contacted me over a year ago as we approached the 30th anniversary of her daughter’s disappearance. She spoke of the anguish she felt when she realised that Katrice was no longer in sight in that busy NAAFI supermarket in Germany. It is a feeling of rising panic and horror which nearly every parent will be familiar with and, as the hon. Member for Hartlepool pointed out, will have experienced in a shop or public space at some point. Sharon and Mr Lee have lived with that feeling for more than 30 years.

As a mother, I can only begin to imagine the horror of losing a child, let alone never discovering what happened to them. The tragedy of this case, however, was cruelly compounded by the incompetence and insensitivity of the Royal Military Police. In an investigation seemingly plagued by failings, sources were overlooked and potential leads neglected, while the family were left without adequate support. The Royal Military Police, and the Army, let down a British soldier and his family when they were most in need of help and support. I hope that the Minister will offer his firm assurances that lessons were learnt from that inglorious time, and that service personnel and their families today would never face such an insensitive instance of neglect.

Let me turn our attention to the future. Despite the heartbreak that both Sharon and Natasha have endured, I have been struck by their quiet determination to carry on fighting to discover what happened to Katrice. That shows courage and strength that I am sure we all greatly admire. Although I welcome the resources and manpower that have recently been committed to the renewed investigation, may I respectfully ask the Minister why it took 30 years for an appropriate level of gravity to be attached to this case, and call on him to confirm that that effort will be maintained regardless of whether the case remains in the media spotlight?

Will the Minister give the family a clear indication about the time frame of the investigation, as I am sure he will agree that they have waited long enough for that to be concluded? When the current investigation is complete, I urge the MOD to release the initial case files to the family. At a time when we are thankfully starting to accept that past mistakes cannot be brushed under the carpet, there can be no attempt to cover up the failings of the original investigation.

Finally, the Minister knows that I respect him enormously, and to my mind there is no one better to be trusted with a responsibility as vital as the welfare of defence personnel. Will he reflect on how this family have been treated over the years at the hands of the Royal Military Police, the Army and the Government? In truth, I was disappointed that the Prime Minister declined to meet the family when I raised this issue at Prime Minister’s questions earlier this year. Surely it is not right to cherry-pick which desperate, grief-stricken family of a lost child is more worthy than others of face time with the Prime Minister.

With that in mind, I plead with the Minister to commit to meet the family, so that he may better understand how to take this case forward to personally address their concerns and ensure that the cruel mistakes of the past are never repeated.

Future Reserves 2020

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I specifically said that that was where the procurement is not exempt from European Union procurement rules. Not all defence procurement is exempt; only the procurement of warlike supplies is exempt. Some of the strongest and most effective corporate supporters of the reserve service are the big defence contractors. I therefore think the hon. Gentleman is looking to pursue a contractual solution to a problem that does not exist, because they are already among the best in this regard.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I welcome the statement, and in particular the comments about additional engagement with employers. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to get greater backing from employers is to give them greater certainty over the level of reservists’ deployment so that they can plan ahead?

[Mr Hammond]

That is one of the important steps we are taking. Making mobilisation liability, duration and frequency predictable is one of the tools for making reservist employees more attractive to employers.

Nuclear-powered Submarines

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I agree with my hon. Friend; this is a classic example of a coincidence of interest between the strong and resolute defence of the United Kingdom and the support of a high-technology manufacturing base.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I welcome the announcement, which is clearly great news for world-class British engineers, skills and jobs. However, does the Secretary of State agree that this is also an economically sensible decision to avoid the costly skills gap we saw in the run-up to the Astute-class boat programme?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There are two ways of sustaining these skills. We either provide orders to the companies that employ them so that they do something useful and make things, or we simply pay them to stand idle and allow their skills to decline. We have chosen the former, which is the right way to go.

Afghanistan (Troop Levels)

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Thursday 26th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I should first say that members of all the armed forces will be involved in the Afghan national officer training academy, so there will definitely be a tri-service presence in Afghanistan after 2014 in that capacity. Beyond that, we have made no decisions about the nature or scale of any continuing support that we may provide. As I said earlier, the conversation about that will begin in Chicago, but I do not expect it to be concluded quickly.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State assure the House that no UK forces will be required to backfill any areas that are left as US forces withdraw from Helmand?

[Mr Hammond]

Yes, I can give that assurance. The UK’s area of operations—the three districts of Nad Ali, Lashkar Gah and Nahri Sarraj in central Helmand—will remain the focus of UK operations. We do not intend to extend our area of operations, and US forces drawing down elsewhere in regional command south-west will be replaced by Afghan national security forces.

Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hammond]

That is a rather widely targeted question. I believe the Scottish Government have recently engaged with us on the safety of nuclear materials moving by road, but I do not recall any other engagement in the past couple of months.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I represent a constituency with a proud heritage of support for the Royal Navy. Will the Secretary of State assure my constituents that any decision on the future of the carriers will be based on considerations of long-term costs and long-term interoperability, not of short-term savings?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is our intention and it is what the previous Government signally failed to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

As I have said, the statements that some Governments have been induced to make about access to their ports for Falkland Islands-flagged vessels are most unwelcome, but we judge that they will have no material impact on our ability to defend the islands or reinforce the islands, should that be necessary. I hope my hon. Friend and the House do not mind, but it would not be in the interests of the UK’s national security or of the Falkland Islands to explore in public which regional nations might be friendly to us if there were a need for military action at any time in the future.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

13. What recent progress has been made by the independent review into granting a medal to the Arctic convoy veterans; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

The Government have agreed that there should be a fresh review of the rules governing the award of military medals. It will be conducted by an independent reviewer with full consultation with interested parties. The terms of reference and further details will be released shortly.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I am grateful to the Minister for that response, but I am not entirely happy with it. The veterans endured the most unimaginable hardships to protect this country during the second world war. Given that many of them are now in their late 80s and early 90s, does the Minister agree that it is imperative to be quick? We need to know when the review will be concluded.

[Mr Robathan]

We all owe a huge debt to those of our fathers’ and grandfathers’ generation who gave up their youth in the service of this country to keep it and the world free from fascism. In the context of my hon. Friend’s question, that particularly applies to those who endured astonishingly awful conditions in the Arctic, and I pay tribute to them for their courage and resilience.

Medals are not awarded by me, and it is quite right that there is to be an independent review that will not be led by the Ministry of Defence. I share my hon. Friend’s concern, but I can assure her that I am told that it will be a swift review and will take place shortly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

2. What expertise women can provide and which roles they can fill on board Royal Navy submarines.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

6. If he will take steps to encourage women in the Royal Navy to apply to serve on Vanguard and Astute class submarines.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

I announced to the House on 8 December that women will be recruited into the Royal Navy submarine service. All submariner roles will be open to women, and this new opportunity to serve will enlarge the talent pool from which the submarine service will recruit. All male and female applicants will be assessed against the same criteria. All applicants will receive the same training. I am confident that there will be sufficient interest from female personnel to serve on board Royal Navy submarines.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I welcome that news from the Secretary of State and the confirmation of what many of us know: that women can do everything that men can do. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] But better. Can the Secretary of State please expand on when it is most likely that women will first be put into training and service on submarines?

[Mr Hammond]

Let me say, Mr Speaker, that if my wife is to be believed, not only can women do everything that men can do, but they can do two things at a time, while men can do only one thing at a time. I hope that this will contribute to the efficiency gains that we need to make in the Royal Navy and elsewhere. I can tell my hon. Friend that female officers will serve on Vanguard class submarines from late 2013, followed by ratings in 2015, and that women will be able to serve on Astute class submarines as both officers and ratings from about 2016.

Arctic Convoy Veterans Medal

Caroline Dinenage Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I am grateful to you, Mrs Riordan, for the opportunity to secure the debate. I want to speak about two words: “heroism” and “bravery”. They are words that we hear too often in modern language, yet their true meaning is absolutely personified by the gentlemen in the white berets. They are the Arctic convoy veterans of world war two. They are the men who risked their lives again and again on what Winston Churchill described as:

“the worst journey in the world.”

On a daily basis, they endured sub-zero temperatures—sometimes as low as minus 60°—and had to hack away at the ice and snow that covered the decks and external parts of their ships. One veteran said that he did not realise how cold it was until he accidentally grabbed a ladder, which removed all the skin on his hand. However, the weather was nothing compared to the continual aerial bombardment from German U-boats, battleships and planes that plagued each trip.

One grim feature of the campaign was the use of suicide flights. Fighter planes were flung into the air with the use of a catapult when enemy aircraft were sighted. With nowhere to land when they were shot or ran out of fuel, pilots were forced to crash into the sea and face almost certain death. A total of 78 convoys delivered 4 million tonnes of vital cargo and munitions to the Soviet Union, which allowed the red army to repel the Nazi invasion. The cost in terms of life was horrific. More than 100 vessels perished and 3,000 UK seamen were killed in the treacherous waters of the Arctic ocean as they undertook terrifying trips to keep Russia supplied and fighting on the eastern front. Nine per cent. of the seamen who took part were killed— the highest fatality rate of any maritime campaign in the war.

The cost, had the Arctic convoys not succeeded, would have been worse. Nazi Germany would very probably have won the second world war. Churchill had promised to supply Stalin “at all costs”. He knew that, if Russia fell, the full weight of the Nazi military machine would be targeted at the west. Yet, because Norway and the Baltic states had been captured by the Germans, the only way to get supplies to Russia was through the northern ports of Murmansk and Archangel, which are both inside the icy waters of the Arctic circle.

Were the convoy veterans honoured with a medal by their own country? After all, even Russia—the Soviet Union—awarded medals that acknowledged its gratitude to the surviving sailors, whom it regarded as heroes. No. The convoy campaign was the only major sea campaign of the second world war not to be honoured with a specific medal. Instead, it was included in the battle of the Atlantic, which was a separate campaign to keep Britain supplied during the German U-boat blockade. This is the biggest fallacy: the Arctic convoy veterans all qualified for the Atlantic star. Leave aside that the Atlantic is 800 miles away from the Arctic and a wholly different campaign. Uniquely for campaign medals, recipients of the Atlantic star had to fulfil a six-month qualifying period, as opposed to just one day for the Africa star, for example.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. She mentioned the Africa star. Not only does the campaign star system allow for such a stand-alone medal—the Italy star is another example—but it permits recognition of a significant event, battle or sustained effort; for example, the one-off clasp, the 1939-1945 star, to commemorate the battle of Britain. Does she agree that there has been a worrying complacency on this matter, in that neither of those ready solutions has been proposed? Today, the Ministry of Defence’s own website does not even mention the convoys in the criteria for the Atlantic star.

[Caroline Dinenage]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and has worked extremely hard on this campaign, as we all have. There is a ready-made solution within the star framework. The complacency in relation to rewarding these extraordinary men is, in many ways, shameful.

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point. Probably the most powerful point she has made is that the qualifying criterion for the Atlantic star was 180 days, which by modern standards is very long indeed. I think that for the Falklands it was one day. For the current operational service medal, it is only 30 days. In fact, if she were devilish, she could ask the Minister what the qualifying period was for his two medals.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I thank my hon. Friend for that very helpful intervention.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

If one considers that the war went on for six years, and people then looked back and decided on the length of time required to qualify for medals, I think that that was a perfectly reasonable position. As I recall, Northern Ireland was 30 days, which was essentially a quarter of a four-month tour. Actually, if my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) thinks that accumulated service medals should take longer to acquire—does he have one, or is he about to get one?—he raises a sensible point, but the second world war went on for six years.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I am very pleased to be acting as a referee in this particular discourse.

[Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Caroline Dinenage]

In two moments, I will. I welcome the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North, whom I think is still a serving member of the Army. I am sure that he very much represents the views of the service people of today, who recognise fully and fully appreciate the sacrifice that these gentlemen made.

[Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (LD)]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. Like others, I congratulate her on successfully securing the debate. She said that there were two words that she wanted to talk about. There are two other words that, unfortunately, have not been taken on board by the Government. One is gratitude—the gratitude of the nation to these men. The other is obligation—the obligation that successive Governments have refused to take up to honour these men with the medal they deserve. The Minister’s outburst belittled the importance of this debate, and I regret that he chose to make those statements. I believe that “obligation” and “gratitude” are the two things that the nation now needs to show these men while they are still alive.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention and echo everything that he has said. I know that he has also been a great supporter of the Arctic convoy veterans in their campaign for a medal.

[Mr Andrew Smith]

The hon. Lady has been generous in giving way. She is making a powerful and eloquent case. I just want to underline the strength of cross-party support for her campaign, and the support it enjoys among the wider British public, as the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) has said. We owe these veterans a vote of thanks, and we owe them a distinctive Arctic convoy medal.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that good intervention. He has, in many ways, hit the nail on the head.

The Minister talked about qualifying periods for medals. The Arctic convoys sailed in excessively awful conditions. It is important to point out that nobody could possibly have managed six months of continuous service in those horrific conditions. There were people who sailed on the convoys, and many who lost limbs in the horrific extreme cold, who did not serve long enough to qualify for the Atlantic star. The Atlantic star qualification—albeit perhaps inadvertently—was therefore set up in such a way as to make sure that nobody who only served in the Arctic convoys could qualify. The Arctic convoy veterans who did receive the Atlantic star—there were a good number of them—only did so because they had also been part of an Atlantic convoy during other parts of the war; they did not receive it purely on the basis of their serving in the Arctic campaign.

Why was the Arctic the only campaign of the second world war to be ignored? The most likely explanation is that, as world war two ended, the cold war began and our relations with the Soviet Union deteriorated. Fear of communism was growing internationally and it was somehow seen as inappropriate, or perhaps even unfashionable, to recognise the efforts of our country in supporting the Russians. In some ways, this whole incredible, valiant episode was just brushed under the carpet. It was only in the 1990s, after the end of the cold war, that this incredibly heroic band of gentlemen felt that they could put forward their case for a medal.

Commander Eddie Grenfell survived his ship being bombed five times, and being plunged into the icy water where life expectancy was just minutes. He somehow managed to get rescued from the water and then spent many months recovering in Murmansk hospital. He is now 91. Lieutenant-Commander Dick Dykes spent more time in the Arctic convoys than anyone else alive today. Such men are heroes, yet they are still fighting. Portsmouth’s The News has led a campaign for more than 10 years to get a medal for Eddie, Dick and the ever-dwindling band of brave men: only 200 now survive. The News might be the champion, but the cause matters not only to people in Portsmouth.

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

I appreciate the hon. Lady securing the debate and congratulate her on that. My now dear departed uncle was on one of the convoys, and he was thrilled to be awarded the Russian medal, although our brave convoy veterans are not allowed to wear it on the same side as their other decorations. If the veterans can receive that medal from Russia, as they did several years ago with great honour here in London, should they not be honoured by our country?

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Lady makes a super point and underlines the strength of feeling on the subject up and down the country. It is almost impossible to understand why our brave servicemen have been rewarded by other countries and not by our own. It is not only a local issue, as she pointed out. Loch Ewe, from where the convoys were launched, has a museum and an annual service of remembrance, and the Scottish Government are even considering including the story of the Arctic convoys in their national curriculum. When I raised the matter at Prime Minister’s questions in January, the incredible outpouring of support I received came from all over the world and from as far afield as Canada and Australia. The medal has the support of people in all walks of life, young and old, and nowhere more so than among our serving servicemen and women. Next year, a new diamond jubilee medal will be awarded to anyone who has completed five years of service in the military, whether on active service or not. Many of the young people in the armed forces in my constituency have said that, if it is only a matter of money, they will happily forgo their own medal in order to afford one for the Arctic convoy veterans.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way to me for a second time. Is she aware that the £12.3 million estimate for an Arctic convoy medal is based on incorrect numbers of servicemen and costings? Looking at the actual costs of other medals and allowing for inflation and even design costs, which obviously would not have to be included, I am hard pushed to reach even £1.2 million.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that information, which further underlines the obstacles that are being put in the way of doing the right thing. The Ministry of Defence was asked to review the medals system in July 2010, and it took 16 months to get nowhere. However, time is of the essence. It is 70 years since the first convoys, and the remaining veterans are in their 80s and 90s; of the thousands who took part in the convoys, only 200 are yet alive.

[Mr Mike Hancock]

The hon. Lady is being enormously generous in giving way again. Is she, like me, unable to find a single precedent other than that of successive Ministry of Defence Ministers from all Governments against giving the medal?

[Caroline Dinenage]

Absolutely—I have yet to find anyone who finds the medal unpalatable, other than members of the MOD.

Does the Minister agree that enough time has already been wasted on reviews and delays? How long will the new independent review requested by the Prime Minister take, and when will it be completed? Finally, what are the scope and leadership of the review? According to the MOD, the details are expected to be released shortly—but “shortly” is not a period that we understand. What does it mean? Time is not on our side, and I ask him to be more specific. I understand that the MOD hides behind rules, protocols and precedents, but another criterion ought to take absolute priority: this is the right thing to do. Those men are not politicians, and at their age they should not have to fight for justice. It appals me that people who gave so much to ensure the freedoms that we daily take for granted should have to beg for the recognition that they deserve.

Successive Conservative leaders in opposition have committed to the medal without review. It is dreadful that it has to be reviewed again and again. I urge the Minister to ensure that it is done quickly. Time is not on the side of those brave gentlemen. It would be utterly disgusting were a medal awarded and no one was alive to receive it.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) for raising this important issue, and I congratulate her on securing the debate. She feels passionately about it, and we have discussed it in the past. There is no scintilla of difference between us about our respect for those of my father’s and her grandfather’s generation who served in the Royal Navy and the Arctic convoys in the second world war. It might be relatively cold outside, but as we sit here in our centrally heated comfort, well clothed and dry, it is difficult to imagine the conditions in which young men in their teens and 20s went to sea in the Arctic before we were born. I pay real tribute to their courage, resolution, determination and bravery when necessary—all those things were shown by the people whom we as a nation sent to war in the Arctic. We agree about that, and the question is what we should do about it.

I mentioned my father’s generation, and I was brought up immediately after the second world war, so I have a much closer feeling with it, if I may say so. My mother’s first husband was a glider pilot killed at Arnhem, and the courage and resolution shown by glider pilots were similarly astonishing. In the battle of Sicily more than half the glider force was dropped in the sea and almost all of them died, as far as I am aware, so then to get back in a glider and fly off to Arnhem and D-day was similarly incredibly brave. I pay tribute to all those from this nation who in the second world war did amazing things. Nothing that I say should detract from that. The Atlantic convoys, rather than the separate Arctic convoys, lost 3,500 merchant ships and 175 warships.

The position of the Government, which my hon. Friend mentioned, is that we will have a review. It was thought that the earlier review, to which she referred, was insufficient, and therefore we are putting in place another one, for which the terms of reference and the chairman have yet to be decided. I can, however, assure her that that work is most definitely happening at the moment. It is important that the decisions be made not by me or by Ministers but independently. Neither the Ministry of Defence nor I will have any hand in those decisions, which will be made by an independent chairman and group. It is important that politicians do not have such decisions at their fingertips. The truth is that politicians should not be involved in awarding medals.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I think that politicians ought to have the decision in their gift. If they should not, why did successive leaders of the Conservative party promise the medal to veterans while in opposition? It should not be subject to review and it does not need independent scrutiny to decide that this is the right thing to do. Politicians are perfectly capable of making the decision and making the right one.

[Mr Robathan]

Every Member in the Chamber, pace the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) who might possibly be an exception, was born after the end of the second world war. Politicians should not revisit decisions made in the past, second-guessing those who are not around to speak for themselves and who knew the details, were much closer to them than us and would have known people who had been on the Arctic convoys, perhaps losing friends or relations on that convoy, when we do not.

The current situation is that an independent review, into which I will have no input, will investigate. However, I would like to state the facts, which are what we should deal with. The Admiralty fleet order dated October 1946 refers to

“Qualifications for the Atlantic Star”

and states:

“After qualification for the 1939-45 Star by six months’…service, in areas defined below.

(A) Six months’…service afloat as defined in Section III”,

which included time in port, and

“(B) Service in home waters, service on the convoy routes to North Russian ports, service in the South Atlantic between the longitude of Cape Horn and longitude 20° E”.

The point was that the Admiralty was trying to have one medal to cover those issues. Whether that was right or wrong, it is wrong to say that the Arctic was ignored. It was not. It was mentioned in the Admiralty fleet order, and it was recognised, but I accept that whether it should have been recognised further is a matter for debate.

The campaign suggests that the Atlantic star is not enough, and I understand the strong feeling about that. I cannot understand what it was like to be in such appalling cold. However, it was also cold in the Atlantic, and I have mentioned the 3,500 merchant ships and 175 warships that went down. Most people who earned the Atlantic star must be very proud to have done so when so many died. One also reads of the deprivation on the Atlantic convoys. It was pretty tough going across the Atlantic being chased by U-boats, and many ships were sunk.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Robathan]

I apologise if my comment was taken in the wrong way. That was not the intention. I am not sure when the Russian medal was given to our veterans, but I believe that it was after 1990. There are not many Soviet survivors from the second world war, but generals in the Soviet army were covered in medals, which is not the tradition in this country. That is the point I was trying to make.

[Caroline Dinenage]

The Minister’s comment about the Russians giving out that medal disparages what the Russians clearly recognise as the unbelievable commitment and bravery of gentlemen such as those in the Public Gallery to whom he referred. We are now in the habit of giving out medals to people who have not committed acts of bravery. Next year, the Queen’s diamond jubilee medal will be given to people who may have spent five years driving a desk in the Ministry of Defence.

[Mr Robathan]

That is a fair point, but the diamond jubilee medal is a commemorative medal, not a campaign medal. That is the difference, but I agree with my hon. Friend. She made a reasonable point. I apologise again if she took my comment the wrong way. My point was that some regimes give out a large number of medals, whereas traditionally the United Kingdom does not.

I commend Commander Grenfell and his colleagues on their campaign. It seems to have started in 1997, which was 51 years after the Atlantic star was awarded, so I am not entirely clear what prompted it. Two Members in the Chamber have been on their parties’ Front Benches, and the last Government, under a lot of pressure, decided that they would award a special medal, but they awarded the Arctic star. In Portsmouth, The News stated, under the heading, “We’ve Won” and “Historic victory in long battle to win honours for heroes of the Arctic convoys”, that Commander Grenfell said:

“I am really very happy with what we have achieved. It has been a tough campaign, but we have finally got the recognition the Arctic veterans deserved.”

It also quoted the hon. Member for Portsmouth South who said:

“This is a tremendous result, and it is wonderful that the Arctic veterans have at last won recognition.”

I must tell Opposition Members, particularly the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith), that their Government believed that the matter had been put to bed.

Finally, the facts are that the decision is not one for politicians. I have huge respect for my father’s generation, who gave up their youth in the service of our country and deserve to be continually respected. The Arctic convoy veterans served in the particularly appalling conditions of the Arctic, but we should not pretend that we know better than experienced people who had taken part in the second world war and who had served on Royal Navy ships at sea. A decision will be taken, rightly, by the medals review. It should not be a political decision; it should relate to those who look at all the facts, take a view dependent on their respect for our veterans and make their decision accordingly.