EBacc: Expressive Arts Subjects

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Monday 4th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mr Lammy]

I do not want to get into the “either/or” debate as it is not helpful. We could also have a discussion in this House—I would certainly be back for this—on the importance of religious studies education. I know some colleagues who would come to that debate as well.

It is depressing that we are having this argument in the country of Shakespeare, the Beatles, so many wonderful actors who pick up awards internationally and domestically every single year, the west-end theatres, and some of the world’s best musicals. I was Minister for Higher Education and I remember that successive Governments made some very poor decisions which resulted in a huge diminution in language learning. There has just been a big national debate on the importance of Europe; the potential for exchanges like those that people of a certain age in this room may have had with young people in Germany and France has been diminished. This debate is so important because there is a sense, in the petition and in the House, that in this fundamental area of our lives, we are taking the wrong course.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

The right hon. Gentleman has mentioned a lot of fantastic contributions. One name that should be mentioned is Professor Brian Cox, a physicist who is also a musician. More and more, we see that the creative arts actually help to fuel creativity in other areas such as science.

[Mr Lammy]

The hon. Lady is right. Famous scientists say the same thing. When I was an Arts Minister, I gave a speech at the Science Museum on the importance of arts and the relationship between arts and science.

Our debate today is being had in the field of performing arts and is live in universities. I was recently at the London College of Fashion, which with Goldsmiths and all the other art colleges is asking, “Where are the working-class students?” They have disappeared from the system. Of course, they are concerned about fees and the way in which we are forcing young people to make decisions based solely on how much they will earn when they leave education. Excluding expressive arts subjects from the EBacc will compound the problem.

If we want to see the multi-layered complexity of our country played out on our screens, in our music halls and in the charts in the years ahead, it is important that the Minister recognises what hon. Members are saying. Rather than use statistics selectively to defend his corner, he must recognise that people have taken the time to sign the petition and to come here this afternoon because there is a profound problem with the direction that the Government are taking.

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[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Thank you, Mr Chope. You have confused me by not being Ms Buck, but I will carry on. As always in education debates, it is interesting to compare the picture in Scotland with that in England. As a former physics teacher, I never considered physics to be any more or less worthy than any other subject. It seems as though a hierarchy of subjects is developing.

At first glance, the principles behind the EBacc seem laudable enough—a solid grounding in core academic subjects makes sense—but the argument is about the key subjects. We are all individuals—not everyone can excel at maths and science. Likewise, arts subjects do not come easily to others, including me. Scotland had a similar system to the one we are discussing today, but forcing pupils to study subjects in which they have no interest is counterproductive and has implications for pupil behaviour, engagement and attainment.

[Mr Gibb]

Does that mean that if a pupil is not interested in maths, they should be able to drop it at any point?

[Carol Monaghan]

A pupil will need a certain grounding in maths, but how many pupils need to know how to do complex algebra or calculus? Basic numeracy and literacy are different from studying subjects in great detail.

[Mr Gibb]

I think the software-games industry would have a different view.

[Carol Monaghan]

In Scotland, we are looking at how we can prepare our students for the workplace. Calculus features in only a few, specific jobs, and we need to consider that.

In Scotland, the emphasis is no longer on a suite of specific subjects, but on personalisation and choice. That has led some students to specialise in science and technical subjects, while others enjoy success in music and the arts. Despite concerns that student numbers may drop in some subjects, the overall presentation numbers have not suffered, because students can take multiple subjects in a curricular area, such as three science subjects or three arts subjects. More importantly, pupil behaviour, engagement and attainment have all improved. Because students have opted into particular subjects, they are in charge of their own decisions and are full stakeholders. The current EBacc in England, rather than allowing students to flourish, is setting some up for failure. Surely a free choice of subjects gives students, especially those from a disadvantaged background, a far better chance of success.

The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) opened the debate by talking about the wide range of organisations supporting the debate, how society is enriched by the arts, and the job opportunities available in the creative industry. The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton) talked about his experience as a musician and how music improved cognitive skills. I know something about that. In a very tough council estate in Raploch, Stirling, a music programme where primary school students were taught the fiddle saw attainment, attendance and general participation all increase as a result.

The right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) talked about her experience as a teacher, the importance of science and the arts and how creativity is at the core of British education. I concur; as a science teacher, I know that science is not always considered to be a creative subject, but our top scientists all have creativity in common. The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), who has left, gave us a wonderful vision of his angelic choirboy past. It was quite hard to imagine. He talked about academic rigour and the benefits of studying the arts for creativity. As a physicist, I know that of the courses that are now developing at universities, including the University of Edinburgh, physics and music is now a joint degree. It is good to see those two subjects coming together as well as the juxtaposition of the two.

My hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) talked about the importance of developing well-rounded individuals who can contribute and enrich society. The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) talked about the unintended consequences of the current EBacc and how it could prevent creativity from flourishing. The hon. Member for Bradford South (Judith Cummins) talked about the need to align skills to industry’s requirements. The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) talked about the benefits of the arts to health and wellbeing. The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) talked about how we get students through the door and how different school activities can be the hook that draws them in, but she also raised concerns about pupils being forced to drop arts subjects because of the EBacc.

The hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) talked about her experience as a former teacher and how theatrical experience allows some troubled students to express themselves in a different way. The Minister should consider seriously her point that the reduced value of arts subjects can contribute to low staff morale.

Scotland’s curriculum for excellence has eight curricular areas, all with equal status. The expressive arts is one of those areas. The Minister should consider the possibility of different flavours of EBacc, so that some students could have a science specialism while others had a language specialism or an expressive arts specialism, and others could do a general EBacc across a range of subjects. That would allow students both to flourish and to specialise in their chosen area.

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[Mr Gibb]

I will of course listen carefully to this debate and all the representations made to the consultation, but there is a problem in this country. All the participants in the debate have talked about the arts being in addition. No one said—I listened carefully—that a foreign language is unnecessary for the majority of young people. No one said that taking two or three sciences is unnecessary for most young people. No one said that maths is not important, apart from the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan)—

[Carol Monaghan]

I do not think I said—in fact, I know I did not say—that maths was not important, although I said that basic numeracy was a requirement. What I did say was that advanced algebra and calculus were not necessary for every student to make their way in life.

[Mr Gibb]

That is where we disagree: young people living in a modern, complex society need to have mathematical skills that go beyond simple numeracy. They need to be able to do maths to the level of GCSE, which is why we have insisted that a GCSE in maths and in English are part of further education studies for students without those GCSEs.

No one in the debate is saying that those subjects should be dropped—in so far as that is concerned, we all agree. Our contention is that there is ample room to study, in addition to the EBacc subjects, the arts, economics or a vocational subject, if that is what interests the young person.

Education, Skills and Training

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Wednesday 25th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Liz McInnes]

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman, and that is certainly not what is going on in my constituency, which I will elaborate on. The number of part-time students and mature students applying to go to university has plummeted since the introduction of tuition fees.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I cannot let the comment about Scotland pass. It is true that if we look at direct routes into university, Scotland has slightly lower numbers going from disadvantaged backgrounds, but if we look at more interesting routes into university through further education, Scotland is doing extremely well with children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

[Liz McInnes]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. I will go on to talk about further education, which is a key part of my speech.

The Minister for Universities and Science is no longer here, but I would like to point out that Labour is not opposed to new universities, despite the Minister’s assumption. For his information, it was the Tory press that dubbed University College London “cockney college”, not anybody from the Labour Benches.

What was missing from the Queen’s Speech was the vital link between schools and universities—further education. Not a mention of it, yet it provides a vital service to our young people, giving them opportunities, skills, training and the possibility of using FE as a stepping stone to higher education. Hopwood Hall College in my constituency, which serves Heywood and Middleton and the wider borough of Rochdale, has its own particular issues, none of which were addressed in the Queen’s Speech. The lack of literacy and numeracy skills is a massive issue in the borough, and some students require an extra year at Hopwood Hall to improve on English and maths, but funding reduces once the learner hits 18, with no allowance made for that catch-up year.

The borough of Rochdale was one of the most affected by the cut to education maintenance allowance and by reduced payments to disabled learners. At this stage, I should declare an interest: my partner used to teach at Hopwood Hall College. When the coalition Government scrapped EMA, my partner had students coming to see him to say that, although they were enjoying the course and the opportunities it gave them, they simply could not afford to keep attending—without EMA, they could not afford the bus fare to college. What a lamentable state of affairs to leave our students in—denied an education because of the cost of a bus fare. With the area review of post-16 education, the problem is likely to be exacerbated, as courses are forced to combine. Some students could find themselves having to travel 30 to 40 miles to access their college courses.

The Greater Manchester area review is causing great concern in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department for Education because of ongoing delays. The chair of the steering group—the chief executive of Tory Trafford Council—warned that the process would lead to

“a fragmentation of the colleges in Greater Manchester”.

The borough of Rochdale also has one of the lowest rates of people going to university. Replacing maintenance grants with loans, and the thought of a £50,000-plus debt, have served as a massive deterrent. Students in England leave university with more debt than students anywhere else in the English-speaking world. They now owe an average of £44,000 on finishing, while Americans run up half that debt, and Canadians a third of it. When maintenance grants are abolished, the poorest students will end up owing more than £50,000, or over half the average price of a terraced house in my constituency.

How many working-class parents will talk their children out of ending up with such a huge debt? Well-off parents, who can afford to pay private school fees, will simply see the cost of a university education as a continuation of those fees, and their children will continue climbing the ladder, untroubled.

While we are talking about student debt, I would like to mention the proposal in the BBC White Paper to close the so-called iPlayer loophole. Doing that will force students living away from home who do not have a television but who access online BBC content to spend yet more money purchasing a yearly TV licence—as if our students were not in enough debt. A Change.org petition against the proposal, which was started by a student at Loughborough University, has now reached a staggering 16,847 signatures. I have asked the Culture Secretary to consider the particular situation students are in; so far, he has evaded my questions, but the petition shows the strength of feeling among students and their families, and I hope he will agree to be bound by it.

Hopwood Hall College provides many innovative courses to help students who aspire to go to university. However, while students continue to face ever-mounting debts, there will be no answer to the social mobility problems in my constituency. The formation of new universities is not the solution, and the Government’s own assessment shows that the number of FE college students applying for higher education will be lower than it is at present.

Further education is sandwiched in the middle of schools and higher education, with key stages 4 and 5 massively underfunded. Yet Hopwood Hall College and many FE colleges like it continue to succeed, seemingly against all the odds. We have 4,000 people in the borough doing vocational courses or A-levels who would previously have travelled outside the borough. We also have a lower level of NEETs—people not in education, employment or training—than neighbouring boroughs. Demand for courses in science and technology, and in health and social care, is increasing, and the college is responding to this, but there is a real challenge across the FE sector in attracting good teachers, especially in maths.

It really is time that this Government recognised the essential role of the FE sector and took some genuine action to address gaps in funding and the problems of recruiting and retaining good-quality teachers in order to achieve their stated aim of educational excellence for all—and that includes for my constituents in Heywood and Middleton.

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[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Falkirk (John Mc Nally) and to conclude on behalf of the SNP.

There is a phrase in the Queen’s Speech that I doubt anyone in this place would disagree with:

“educational excellence in all schools, giving every child the best start in life.”

I have taught in several excellent schools. One in particular that comes to mind is an inner-city comprehensive in Glasgow, where quality shone through. The quality was obvious in the way the school interacted with the wider community, the way former pupils came back to let their teachers know how they were getting on and the way the staff worked as a team to make sure they got the best possible outcomes for their students. It was also a happy place. However, would that school be deemed excellent by Government Members? I doubt it.

There are three main groups of people who make the difference to children’s educational chances: the children themselves, their parents and the teachers. At no point did I mention politicians, however, because we now have a situation where the level of political interference is reaching dangerous levels.

Many Members will have visited schools in their constituencies. Like the Queen, they will have been treated to the pristine and polished view. A more enlightening experience, perhaps, would be to go undercover and shadow a teacher for a couple of days. Even though a proficient teacher will make the job look easy, one would still develop a far more informed view of the realities of 21st-century education. I would suggest that Members try their hand at teaching a class of 30 teenagers, but unfortunately most hon. Members in this place would not make it past the morning interval. As legislators, we need to understand why there is both a recruitment and a retention crisis in teaching. We need to listen to the teachers to ensure that we retain these experts in education.

The dangers of the academisation programme may not be immediately obvious. Indeed, to the lay person the programme can seem attractive. No parent wants their child to get a second-class education at a so-called failing school, so transforming these schools magically into beacons of educational brilliance does indeed seem attractive. But we need to call it what it is: this “deregulation” is in fact privatisation by another name. Academies can be judged to be failing or coasting in the same way that local authority schools can be outstanding, so this relentless drive to convert schools to academies is clearly being done for a different reason, and I suggest that it is an ideological attack on state education.

There is plenty of talk about our great teachers—in fact, I have heard it mentioned several times today—but to the teaching profession these words appear hollow. Removing teachers’ nationally agreed terms and conditions and abandoning pay scales is ultimately about reducing education spending. These terms and conditions set out the number of hours teachers should work each week and how that time should be split between class contact, preparation time, and continuous professional development activities. Simple things like the requirement to give a teacher a lunch break are included in the conditions, but they also include agreed standards for, for example, sick pay or maternity leave. Firefighters and police officers are not expected to negotiate their pay with the local station, and neither should our teachers. For a beleaguered profession, this is the equivalent of kicking them when they are down.

The deregulation of pay scales has been reported as allowing schools to pay their staff more in order to recruit quality teachers. I am afraid I am sceptical. There is a real danger that by removing standardised pay scales, the opposite will in fact happen, and staff will be paid less. This will further demotivate teachers and lead to the increased use of unqualified teachers. As the largest part of any school budget is for staffing, when this is rolled out nationally the Government’s education budget can be eroded right across the country, meaning that education spending would reduce and funding problems currently experienced in schools would be ingrained.

The use of unqualified teachers causes me grave concern. We are talking about people who hold a child’s future in their hands. It would be unacceptable to go to the doctor and find that the person sitting in front of you had never been to medical school, so why is this acceptable in teaching? I accept that there are shortages of teachers generally, and specifically in a number of key subject areas. The Government should therefore ask themselves, and ask the teachers, why teaching has become so unattractive, rather than compound the situation with further ham-fisted, ideologically driven interference.

On a number of occasions in this Chamber I have raised concerns about the £35,000 income threshold for non-EU workers. The Government need to look immediately at this ill-thought-out scheme and the impact it is having on the recruitment and retention of overseas teachers in key subject areas, particularly in STEM subjects. There is nothing in the Queen’s Speech to tackle shortages in those subjects or to lift the £35,000 threshold.

Excellence is not about groups of pupils leaving school with a narrow clutch of GCSEs in traditional subjects. In Scotland we have a new curriculum for excellence, which allows pupils to work through subject areas with much less constraint than in the past. The drive is not for boffin-like students to rhyme off equations and dates that can be Googled instantly; instead, it is for our young people to be empowered with skills such as analysis, communication and problem solving—in other words, the employability skills for which business is crying out.

I am happy to say that Scotland is a country of bairns not bombs. We are protecting pay scales, terms and conditions, and standards and qualifications for teachers. Unqualified teachers cannot work in our schools.

When the education system in England has been flushed down the toilet of deregulation, those who can afford it will go private, and unequal Britain will be embedded. The UK Government have to ask themselves what value they place—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I call Lucy Powell.

“Educational Excellence Everywhere”: Academies

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan]

I thank the Chair of the Education Committee. It was a pleasure to visit a school in his constituency of Stroud recently. I know that he is absolutely committed to the lifting of educational standards for all young people. Is it not telling that, rather than working with the Chair of the Education Committee, the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) just tries to shout him down?

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for today’s statement. Many school communities will also welcome today’s announcement. Although I, like many teachers across these isles, would love to think that the Government do listen to teachers, the reality seems to be that this embarrassing U-turn on a centrepiece Budget announcement has been brought about by a handful of the Government’s own Back Benchers. Those who have the greatest impact on the success of a school are teachers, and a first-rate headteacher can turn a school around regardless of whether it is an academy, but there is no doubt that this grand plan has caused great anxiety, and teachers who are already struggling with severe workload issues have had an additional burden placed on them by the academisation plan. The Secretary of State says that academies allow schools the freedom to innovate with the curriculum—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Austin, you are as noisy now as you were in the debating chamber of the University of Essex student union where you noisily, belligerently and discourteously heckled me 30 years ago. [Interruption.] Order. The hon. Lady—and all Members—must be heard with courtesy. May I gently say to her that her chance of getting a courteous hearing will be increased if, rather than making a statement, she asks a question?

[Carol Monaghan]

The ability of schools to set their own pay scales will raise questions around teachers’ pay and recruitment, and there is concern that the long-term impact of academies will mean higher salaries and better terms and conditions in some better-funded academies. What consideration—[Hon. Members: “Hooray!”] I am glad that I amuse the House. What consideration has the Secretary of State given to teacher recruitment in poorer areas in terms of being able to attract the teachers they need to raise attainment? We in the Scottish National party are firmly committed to national bargaining in the public sector. How will she ensure that, by abandoning nationally agreed pay scales, this will not affect recruitment and retention in more challenging schools?

[Nicky Morgan]

I thank the hon. Lady for her long question. I agree that the most important thing we can do in our classrooms is to ensure that the quality of teaching is at its absolute highest, which is why we have more teachers in our schools than we have ever had before.

On recruitment, let me say that, if the hon. Lady has the chance to read the White Paper, she will find a lot of answers to her questions. There is the introduction of “Achieving Excellence Areas”, the introduction of the National Teaching Service, the setting up of career progression for teachers, and the support for a college for teaching. Let me also say to her that, in Scotland, there are now fewer teachers than there were when the SNP came to power and a bigger gap between the advantaged and the disadvantaged. With the election of Ruth Davidson as an MSP and the fact that our party came second in the polls, her party will now be held to account.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan]

My hon. Friend will be aware of the announcements in the Budget regarding the funding from the new sugar levy, which will be used in part to expand breakfast clubs in up to 1,600 schools from September 2017. Of course, the opportunities offered by the longer school day are also important in ensuring that our young people get the extracurricular activities that help them to achieve the highest possible standards.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Much of the quality assurance in schools is driven and carried out by local authorities. That means that self-evaluation and improvement is a continuous cycle, with only the occasional visit from Her Majesty’s inspectorate of education in Scotland, or Ofsted in England, to rubber-stamp the work already done. With the move to academies, how does the Secretary of State envisage quality assurance being monitored locally, and what budget has she set aside for the increased number of inspectors required to drive improvement?

[Nicky Morgan]

Quality assurance will be measured in exactly the same way as it is now, by Ofsted, and, most importantly, by parents, who make the best possible choice for their children by choosing the strongest schools. It is worth noting that, in Scotland, 29% of schools in the most deprived areas are rated weak or unsatisfactory. The SNP has had nine years to raise educational standards in Scotland. What has it done about them?

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[Mr Gibb]

We do listen to teachers, and we consulted very widely on the new primary school curriculum that was published in final form in 2013 and came into force in 2014. It is on a par with the best maths curriculums for primary schools from around the world. We have very high expectations and we do not apologise for that. We need to make sure that pupils leaving our schools are able to compete in a modern world—able to survive and thrive in a modern economy such as Britain’s. That is our ambition, and I wish the Liberal party would share it too.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

At Education questions on 7 March I asked the Minister for Schools about the £35,000 income threshold for non-EU nationals and how it would impact on the recruitment and retention of STEM-qualified teachers. He told me that there was an ongoing consultation with the Home Office, but no new announcements appear to have been made on this issue. Will he answer my question today: what steps has he taken to ensure that qualified teachers will be exempt from the £35,000 threshold on earnings?

[Mr Gibb]

The consultation is ongoing and we will report to the hon. Lady and the House in due course.

Faulty Electrical Imports

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for securing it. Unlike her, I will give a bit of a history lesson. The first people who are documented as having dealt with electricity were the ancient Greeks—Members are going to enjoy this.

[Geraint Davies (in the Chair)]

You only have five minutes.

[Carol Monaghan]

The ancient Greeks realised that when they rubbed pieces of amber with a cloth to polish them they got sparks. They had no idea why, but they quite enjoyed the effect. In ancient Greek, amber is called elektron, which is where we get the word “electricity” from.

Some big names in electricity include Alessandro Volta, Luigi Galvani and Benjamin Franklin—they all played around with electricity. I mention those greats of electricity because none of those scientists had any idea of how electricity was going to be used. It was used for after-dinner entertainment—for example, small experiments were conducted instead of having a conjuror. The Victorians found some uses for electricity, one of the first of which was lighting. They realised that if they had a table cloth with electrical elements running through it, they could plug the prongs of a table lamp directly into the table cloth and light the dinner table. That sounds great—until a drink is spilled on to the table.

We can all laugh at that, but such ridiculous—possibly very creative—inventions were no more dangerous than some of the goods that are currently on sale. When current goes through any wire it generates heat. We need the correct flexes to cope with the current going through them. That is why we have different flexes for different purposes. One of the problems with counterfeit goods is that they do not necessarily have the correct flex for the appliance, which means that when the appliance draws current the flex can heat up and melt, causing a fire. That is one of the big problems with counterfeit goods.

For consumers, price is often a great driver. I just did a quick check of the internet. I do not have an iPad charger with me today. Were I to go to a local retailer and buy a genuine iPad charger, it would cost me £15 for the plug and £15 for the wire—a total cost of £30. On Amazon today, I can get a charger and wire that looks like an Apple charger for £8.99, including postage and packaging. That is what drives many consumers to take risks—especially low-income consumers who are trying to get goods that they think are going to do the job for them. Genuine retailers, especially those selling things as simple as a charger, must look at their pricing. I am not suggesting that they can produce an iPad charger for a knock-down price of £8.99, but £30 to charge my iPad seems a little excessive.

Sites such as Amazon and eBay should take responsibility for the goods sold on their sites. It is not just about iPad chargers. The hon. Member for Swansea East mentioned ghd straighteners. Let us say a genuine set comes in at £100. I might want to buy a set without realising that they are counterfeit: I might think it is just a good deal. I might buy them, not at a market for £30, but online for a “Today’s special deal” of £90. That is close enough to the right price for people to think the straighteners are genuine. They pay the money, thinking they got a good deal, but in fact they got a death trap. Online marketplace sites must take responsibility for the goods and sellers on their sites, and the Government must take action against retailers whenever the goods they are selling are not up to standard.

Finally—despite my history lesson, Mr Davies, I am keeping to the time limit—it is important to raise public awareness. As my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) said, it is not enough just to talk about the recall of particular items. Tell the public the reasons why and what can go wrong. Give them photos. Make them aware and educate them so that they can make informed decisions about the goods they buy.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Engineering Skills: Design and Technology Education

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan) on securing this important debate. It has been informative, with many valuable contributions, and there are clear messages coming through. The hon. Lady talked about the need to tailor the curriculum to what business requires and, when looking at school curricula, it is important to consider what we are trying to achieve as the end product.

As a physics teacher, I have been long aware of the growing need for specific professions within the workplace. Engineers, scientists and computer scientists have become key to economic success in this ever more digital world. There is a massive skills gap, and we should be taking positive steps to address it. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) talked about retaining the teachers we have and encouraging more people to take up a career in STEM teaching, and I agree; teachers are key to everything we are discussing this morning. If we cannot get teachers in, how can we possibly encourage our young people to take up these subjects? It is also important that we have an environment that is conducive to people moving into teaching. We need to look at what is happening in schools and the stresses and strains that have been put on teachers.

The hon. Member for South Antrim (Danny Kinahan) talked about working together to produce the best results, and that is important. We want a situation where our young people educated in engineering and science can travel not only throughout the UK but throughout the world. We are producing top-class engineers, but we are just not producing enough of them. We should be able to export these young people worldwide. He also mentioned grammar schools. I taught in a comprehensive school for most of my career, and I do not believe that grammar schools solve all the problems.

Schoolchildren’s awareness of careers in industry has been mentioned, and we need to be careful about some of the language we use. We talk about industry, but for many children that word conjures up images of boiler suits, oil and probably fairly manky toilet facilities. If we are trying to encourage our young people, we need to be careful when we loosely talk about the engineer coming round to fix our central heating boiler or our satellite TV. Important though those workers are, I am pretty sure that most of them do not have a degree in engineering.

[Kevin Foster]

The hon. Lady is making an interesting and at some points amusing speech. Does she agree that part of the issue is that we perceive engineering in this country as someone fixing a washing machine? In other parts of Europe, “engineer” is a title in itself, almost like having a knighthood.

[Carol Monaghan]

Absolutely. We of course have chartered engineer status, but that does not filter through to children when they are thinking about careers. The stereotypes are damaging. The hon. Member for Strangford talked about the high-end jobs we have in the UK, but how do we raise awareness? A few weeks ago, I visited Clyde Space, an engineering and manufacturing plant in an office block in the centre of Glasgow that manufacturers satellites. It has a lovely open-plan area with computers down one side. Lots of young people were sitting at them, chatting and working away. They were in jeans and some even had make-up on. It is a relaxed, nice environment, and they are all engineers. We need to change our perception of what an engineer is.

The hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Kelly Tolhurst) talked about raising awareness of STEM careers at a much earlier age, and that is important. My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) talked about the STEM outreach in his local area. Things like that start getting children ready for other possible careers.

The hon. Member for Chippenham mentioned the subjects included in the EBacc, but what is the purpose of the EBacc? Is it an attempt at producing a gold-standard qualification, or is it simply for league tables? I spoke to the Minister for Schools last week about the composition of the EBacc—we are becoming great friends across the Chamber—and I talked about the science pillar, which retains the traditional subjects. Although the rhetoric about STEM is positive, such things as the composition of the EBacc should be driven by economic factors, not just by outdated views of what a gold-standard education should be. The hon. Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) talked about the importance of hands-on skills, problem solving and apprenticeships. Those are vital. Problem-solving skills developed at school can be used widely in society, and not just within an engineering situation.

The Scottish picture was touched on by my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun. In response to him, I should say that my son is just about to embark on an engineering degree at university, so perhaps I was more persuasive. In Scotland, we have redesigned our curriculum not by making a list of the subjects we consider to be core but instead by starting at the end point: looking at what employers need and the skills our young people have to have. Our new curriculum requires children to study a broad general curriculum from age three. It must cover lots of curricular areas, including expressive arts, health and wellbeing, languages, maths, religious education, sciences, social studies and technologies. All those subjects must be covered to age 14, so children in Scotland are getting the exposure that many Members have talked about today. As young people approach their exams, they can choose which strands they wish to progress. Within the technologies curriculum, there are many different subjects—computing science, design and manufacture, design and technology, engineering and science, to name but a few—that allow them to specialise. The beauty of it is that all subject areas have equal status and the markers by which schools are judged encompass all curricular areas.

As our young people progress, they have far wider options in which they can choose to specialise. The hon. Member for South Antrim talked about his difficulties with some of those areas. Not everyone is born to be an engineer, but not everyone is born to be an expert in classics, either. Variety is what makes our society rich. We have a baccalaureate in Scotland, but it happens at a later stage. Students can do four different baccalaureates: languages; expressive arts; social sciences; and science, which includes design and manufacture and engineering science. Those qualifications at a late stage in secondary are meant to be cross-curricular and include a cross-curricular project.

In conclusion, I totally agree with the hon. Member for Chippenham and the point she raised about the importance of design and technology qualifications. We need to look at a curriculum that is driven by what industry requires, not by what politicians think is needed. We also need curricula that allow for personalisation and choice, so that young people can become experts in their areas of interest.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gyimah]

Let me puncture the hon. Gentleman’s question with a dose of reality. The Government are investing more in childcare than any previous Government. At a time when other Departments are facing financial constraint, the Government have made childcare a strategic priority. That is why we undertook the first ever cost of childcare review to ensure that funding is fair to providers and sustainable for the taxpayer.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

The National Audit Office report published last week raised concerns about how the 30 hours of childcare for some three and four-year-olds could impact on current provision for disadvantaged two-year-olds. What steps will be taken to ensure that increased provision for one group will not impact on the good work being done with disadvantaged two-year-olds?

[Mr Gyimah]

The hon. Lady asks a good question, and the answer is that there will be no adverse impact on the offer for two-year-olds. We were the first Government to introduce 15 hours of free childcare for disadvantaged two-year-olds, and that will carry on. We have increased the hourly rate for the funding for two-year-olds and ensured that the early-years pupil premium continues, so that two, three and four-year-olds who are particularly disadvantaged do not fall even further behind.

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[Mr Gibb]

The hon. Gentleman seemed to get a bigger cheer for mentioning Harold Wilson than he would have done if he had mentioned the current leader of the Labour party. I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman, however, about the importance of inspiring young people. University technical colleges have been established to do precisely that, and we have seen a huge increase in the number of young people taking STEM A-levels, with the number taking maths A-level going up by 18% so that some 82,000 young people are now taking it. It has become the single most popular A-level choice, while both physics and chemistry A-level entries have increased by 15%.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

We currently have a situation in which the income threshold for non-EU workers could be raised to £35,000, which will cause issues for many STEM teachers currently working in UK schools, as well as for teachers that could be recruited from abroad. Will the Minister explain to schools that have gaping holes in STEM teaching positions how he is working with the Home Office to ensure that we can continue to recruit from abroad?

[Mr Gibb]

As the hon. Lady will know, there is a consultation taking place with the Home Office on these very issues, and it will report in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Joseph Johnson]

We are, of course, considering the Migration Advisory Council’s recommendations, and will come forward shortly with our response, but through our tier 1 exceptional talent visa, we provide many opportunities to highly talented scientists to work in the UK and contribute to our economy.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

7. What discussions he has had with the Scottish Government on implementation of the apprenticeship levy.

[The Minister for Skills (Nick Boles)]

Last October, my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury set up a working group with Scottish Finance Ministers to plan the implementation of the apprenticeship levy, and I am going to Edinburgh this Thursday to meet Roseanna Cunningham and Ministers from the other devolved Administrations.

[Carol Monaghan]

The apprenticeship levy will apply to businesses across the UK, including Scotland. Will the Minister clarify the means by which Scotland’s share of the funds raised will be calculated?

[Nick Boles]

That is, of course, a matter for the Treasury, but the hon. Lady will be aware that the system of Barnett consequentials will ensure that Scotland, as well as the other devolved Administrations, receives a share of the tax raised across the UK to support apprenticeships—I hope—and any other policy the Scottish Government want.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Monday 25th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan]

I read with interest the Health Committee report in the last Parliament, and I and the Under-Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah), have regular conversations with our colleagues in the Department of Health and across Government on this issue. Early insights from the local transformation plans, which my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) will know about, indicate that some areas are already running their own activities to decrease stigma and discrimination, or are planning to do so. Sadly, there remains discrimination against the prioritisation of mental health services even within some parts of the NHS. We have to change that.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I am feeling rather abandoned on the Scottish National party Benches today, and I am wondering whether my colleagues are off celebrating an early Burns Night. I wish any Members who will be taking part in such events a very enjoyable time.

The link between mental health problems and poverty is well documented, with young people from the poorest 20% of households three times more likely to suffer from poor mental health than those from the most affluent 20%. What plans does the Secretary of State have to study the impact of removing the education maintenance allowance on the mental health of the most disadvantaged young people in society?

[Nicky Morgan]

I agree with the first part of the hon. Lady’s question, although I am afraid that I could not agree with the second part because I could not quite see where she was heading with it. The overall issue is that the mental health of young people from all backgrounds needs to be addressed, in the sense of tackling early intervention and prevention and of ensuring that we produce strong, resilient young people. That is why I have been talking a lot about character education, which is something that I want to prioritise in the schools system in England.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gyimah]

That is an excellent question. There are many excellent school nurseries available. She may be aware that, as part of our last spending review, we announced £50 million of capital funding, and that we will be working with schools that need to expand to be able to deliver the cost of childcare.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

The Government’s plans for introducing 30 hours of free childcare for working parents have rightly received cross-party support, but, as we have already heard, there is still some way to go with regard to parents seeking employment. What work will the Minister do with parents who are currently seeking employment to enable them to access the childcare?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Lady appears to have phoned not one friend, but two. We are deeply grateful to her and to those hon. Members.

Out-of-school Education Settings

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Wednesday 20th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) on securing the debate. I find myself in the strange position of agreeing with almost everything he said.

Like the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Caroline Ansell), I am a former teacher. I know the difficulties teachers have in recruiting people to help with out-of-school clubs and activities, and adding a further layer of bureaucracy will simply close those down, with all the benefits to our young people being lost in one foul blow.

As has been mentioned, anyone working with children already needs to undergo disclosure checks. Although those can take time and be problematic for people who want to get started, they are an important tool, and they are already in place.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned an atheist who said that teaching children the Bible was akin to child abuse. We must be careful about how we perceive teachers and what they do. People often think that teachers in particular settings are taking part in indoctrination or putting forward one view. Teachers in Catholic or other Christian schools do not simply teach one view—they teach different views.

Let me give an example from my experience. I was a science teacher. When we looked at the energy debate, we would give pupils the facts about renewables and nuclear and let them make their own decisions—we would teach them how to argue and how to think. The point here is that we are forgetting the professionalism that teachers show, whatever setting they are in. Teachers are not brainwashing pupils; they want to give them the knowledge to make their own decisions.

While we are talking about brainwashing and indoctrination, I should add that I am far more concerned about children who spend six-plus hours in front of the television, being fed soap operas and “The X Factor”, with all the lessons that those teach.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

The hon. Lady makes a great point. The proposed regulation could mean that more people in the communities where many churches operate—some of the most deprived communities in the country—are sitting indoors, doing less activity, which links to the debate we will have tomorrow about having a strategy to deal with the obesity that these things are resulting in.

--- Later in debate ---

[Carol Monaghan]

Absolutely. We need to look at the huge benefits that children—our future citizens—gain from these additional activities.

The hon. Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth) talked about the need to tackle the threats to national security. We all share the responsibility to tackle extremism, but in doing that we must be careful not to throw the net too wide. Tarring every Muslim in Britain with the same brush because of the actions of those who carry out atrocities such as the recent Paris attacks or the 7/7 bombings is like tarring every Irish person with the same brush because of the Warrington bombing. We must be careful about the language we use so that we do not play into the hands of extremists. If we approach the Muslim community aggressively, we will simply cause anger and upset, and we will not get to the nub of the issue—the handful of extremists feeding poison to people.

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that the proposal risks being very heavy-handed? At its heart, it fails to take into account the fact that children and young people access so many out-of-school services and clubs and that those are at the heart of many communities across our country.

[Carol Monaghan]

Absolutely, and the same is true in the Muslim community. My local mosque, in Glasgow’s West End—the Ahmadiyya welcome centre—has children visiting every day after school to learn the Koran. It also opens its doors to the community and says, “Come and see what we do with these children. Come and see how they are benefiting. Come and find out about the values that are being taught here.” When we go in, we find happy children and a group of people who want to share what they are doing, and that is the experience in most mosques across these isles, so we need to be careful about these issues.

When an attack takes place, it is nothing to do with Islam, which is a faith of peace, or with our Muslim brothers and sisters, who contribute so fully, but it is everything to do with poisonous individuals and their individual agendas. We must continue to ensure that the Muslim community plays a full part in the wider community and that it does not find itself cut off or feel that it must cut itself off.

Many Members have talked about British values. Let me finish by saying that the values I hold dear are freedom of speech and freedom of expression, as long as people exercise them respectfully. Our values should include respect for people of all faiths and for those of none at all.