Ticket Sales: Dynamic Pricing

Baroness Twycross Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moynihan]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, in the light of the selling of Oasis concert tickets, what action they plan to take against (1) dynamic pricing, and (2) other ticket sale practices.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Twycross) (Lab)]

This Government are concerned to see fans prevented from going to live events by vastly inflated prices. We will launch a consultation in the autumn on options for introducing new protections for fans buying tickets. We welcome the Competition and Markets Authority’s announcement that it has launched a formal investigation into Ticketmaster. As it is a live investigation it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the specifics of that case, but I declare an interest as one of many people who spent a ridiculous number of hours in the queue, only to have the site crash when I got to the ticket selection page, and subsequently to be told I looked like a bot.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I warmly thank the Minister for her reply. She is right that we are not in a position to reflect on the details of the review that is under way on dynamic pricing, but the second part of my Question is a request to investigate how tens of thousands of tickets end up being harvested illegally through bots and sold on sites such as viagogo and StubHub within seconds of officially going on sale, as evidenced in the conviction of Hunter and Smith, who are the tip of the iceberg of thousands of similar touts. They were found guilty of making millions fraudulently and dishonestly by buying and reselling tickets for high-profile music and entertainment events. Is the time to act not now? We have had nearly 10 years of extensive review since Waterson reviewed. Will the Minister come forward with legislation as soon as possible to protect genuine music fans from the criminal activities of modern-day ticket touts?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

We committed to taking action on secondary ticket sales during the election, and we are consulting in the autumn on the best ways to implement our manifesto commitment to introduce new protections for fans in the ticket market. This will include proposals to protect fans on ticket resale and a call for evidence on price transparency that will include dynamic pricing.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, has been a great champion of fair ticketing for many years. When we discussed his amendments at ping-pong on the digital markets Bill back in May, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, helpfully said,

“if elected, a Labour Government would strengthen consumer rights legislation to protect fans from fraudulent ticket practices, to restrict the sale of more tickets than permissible and to ensure that anyone buying a ticket on the secondary market can see clearly the original price and where it comes from”.—[Official Report, 23/5/24; col. 1193.]

That is very specific. The Labour Party manifesto outlined plans to cap resales. Is there a plan for legislation rather than yet more consultations and reviews, as the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, said? After all, we had the Waterson review back in 2016.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

It is appropriate to undertake further consultation in light of recent events. If we went on just the previous consultation—I know it is something we committed to—it would not necessarily have included this. It is right that we consult further on additional consumer protections, and the Government will do so over the autumn. I hope that noble Lords across the House will take part in the consultation and encourage everyone affected by this, as so many people are, to take part.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, the correct expression is customer fleecing, not dynamic pricing. Too many companies are profiteering while luring customers with misleading advertising, misleading prices and violation of implied sale of goods contracts. This abuse is wide- spread. Train companies, airlines, hotels, theatres, Uber, Amazon and Airbnb are some of those engaging in this abuse. We need action. Can the Minister say when the first prosecution can be expected?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

Dynamic pricing is not illegal. Businesses must follow consumer protection law when they engage with their consumers using dynamic pricing.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, a number of us have been very disappointed at being unable to obtain tickets for Oasis concerts, yet we are concerned that a number of members of the Front Bench of the Government elsewhere have appeared on television claiming that they have obtained tickets. Can the Minister kindly confirm that no special provisions were in place to give those people an advantage over mere mortals like ourselves?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I cannot speak for Front-Benchers to whom I have not spoken, but I know that a number of my noble friends on the Government Benches in this House spent, as I said, a ridiculous amount of time trying to get tickets on the day and failed miserably.

[Lord Londesborough (CB)]

My Lords, like it or not, dynamic pricing, driven by supply and demand, has been with us for centuries and is a key ingredient of economic growth. Does the Minister agree that Sir Keir Starmer’s pledge last week to

“make sure that tickets are available at a price that people can actually afford”

is at odds with the Government’s number one mission? Is the Prime Minister committed to economic growth or—with apologies to Oasis—is this a case of “Definitely Maybe”?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

Noble Lords will note that I have taken a deliberate decision not to quote song titles. The Minister of State, Chris Bryant, described people being able to access live events as “a joy”. The joy of live events should be available to everyone and that has to be reflected in fair pricing.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, unlike the Front Bench, I am more of a Blur man myself. This all demonstrates that at the top of the tree there is a huge amount of money to be made, but every headlining band started life in small, independent music venues and it is those venues which are suffering. They are closing and really have their backs against the wall. Can the Minister tell us what plans the Government have to support the research and development of our great music industry in this country? Are they considering adopting the proposals for a smart fund whereby a small levy on tickets in big venues can be used to support the small venues that created the bands playing there?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

In Labour’s plan for the creative industries we committed to supporting creative small businesses and defending existing grass-roots music venues, nurturing fledgling arts spaces and working to prevent the loss of cultural spaces. One of our top priorities is to work closely with stakeholders and across government to ensure that the live music sector is financially resilient, and to explore potential further opportunities for support.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My noble friend will be aware from the mood of the House that there is really quite a feeling that action is required here. On all the issues discussed so far, we have talked about the impact of the primary market and now the secondary market but, in addition to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, what about the artists themselves? Their ability to reach out to their audience is often frustrated by the way that the system works against them.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

If I understand my noble friend’s question correctly, this is about people starting out, at the beginning of their career. He is shaking his head so I will try again. We are committed to live music. We will do everything we can to make sure that live music is accessible to everybody but that there is that connection between artists and their fan base.

[Lord Hannan of Kingsclere (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for confirming a moment ago that dynamic pricing is not illegal. Will she also take the opportunity to remind the House that when more people want something than there is of that something —in this case, more people wanting tickets than there are tickets—the price will naturally rise? That is not a market failure; it is what is meant to happen.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

There is an ongoing investigation by the CMA and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the specifics of the case. However, we need to look into whether there might be a different pricing system.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, further to the mischievous suggestion made opposite that there might have been some preference for the Government on this matter, can the Minister confirm that, unlike for Covid, there was no VIP lane?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I am fairly confident. I am humble enough not to count myself as somebody who would have access to that. There were, however, VIP tickets, which were way beyond my means.