People of African Descent in the United Kingdom

Baroness Scott of Bybrook Excerpts

Monday 17th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the statement by the United Nations Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent, published on 27 January, in which they said they were “deeply concerned about the human rights situation of people of African descent” in the United Kingdom and which recommended further efforts to address structural, institutional and systemic racism against people of African descent.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing & Communities (Baroness Scott of Bybrook) (Con)]

This Government are proud that the United Kingdom is an open, tolerant and welcoming country. I commend to the House our Inclusive Britain strategy, which is a rigorous and comprehensive action plan to tackle negative disparities between people from different ethnic backgrounds. We have published today a report on the excellent progress we have made on delivering Inclusive Britain and how it is improving people’s lives.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister then needs to explain to the House how the United Nations working group came to the conclusions that it did in the statement it published on 27 January and how it found exactly the same situation as it did on its visit in 2012. It identified

“stark and unsustainable inequalities underpinned by systemic racism, judicial bias, and disproportionate and discriminatory policing of people of African descent”

in the UK today. Does the Minister accept the findings of the working group, and what do the Government intend to do about them?

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[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

We strongly reject most of the findings, as they wrongly view the people of African descent as a single, homogenous group and present a superficial analysis of complex issues that fails to look at all possible causes of disparities, not just race. We did not feel that the United Kingdom’s strong reputation as one of the fairest and most open-minded countries in the world was properly reflected in the working group’s initial findings, which failed to look fully at all possible causes of disparities, not just race or racism. As our Inclusive Britain strategy and the wider work of this Government demonstrate, instead of sowing division, we must focus on giving every community and individual the opportunity to thrive and to succeed in a country where a person’s racial, social or ethnic background is not a barrier to achieving their ambitions.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, in discussing serious issues, we should avoid using terms that blur meaning and fog issues, including words such as “racist”, “race” and “racism”, which suggest that there is a number of finite races in the world? The reality is that there are as many races as there are human beings on earth. Does the Minister further agree that what we are talking about is irrational prejudice, which has to be tackled in schools and the workplace?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord’s last point that, where there are issues in workplaces, in education or in health, we need to tackle them. I also agree with him that there are many races in the world and that everybody is equal.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, the report highlights how the treatment of the Windrush generation has caused significant and unbelievable harm. The feeling of mistrust and the daunting requirements have left emotional trauma that cannot be quantified. Many have died without their cases being resolved. Recently scrapping the three recommendations from Wendy Williams was careless and heartless, so will the Government make the application process more accessible and simpler for the many elderly people still struggling with the daunting system, or, better still, hand over the compensation scheme to an independent body?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

Since the injustices of Windrush came to light, there has been a concerted effort across government to right the wrongs suffered by those affected, including apologising, helping people to apply for documentation through our Windrush help teams, and the 200 engagement and outreach events across the country. Over 60% of the claims have received final decisions and, incrementally, more decisions are being made month by month. The Home Office firmly believes that moving the operation of the scheme away from the department would risk significantly delaying vital payments and that there would be considerable disruption to the processing of outstanding claims while a new body was established and made operational.

[Lord Popat (Con)]

Does my noble friend the Minister agree that we have an amazing record when it comes to challenging racism and celebrating diversity? Four of our five most senior Cabinet Ministers have African origins, including our Prime Minister and Suella Braverman, from Kenya; James Cleverly, from Sierra Leone; and Kemi Badenoch, from Nigeria. We have an amazing record that we should always celebrate, so I really do not agree with the United Nations report.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

Of course I agree with my noble friend. We are a country that is welcoming and open, and I do not believe it is racist at all.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, numerous studies have shown that black African workers in the UK receive lower pay than their white counterparts for exactly the same work. Ethnicity pay gap reporting is a necessary tool for highlighting institutionalised inequities and empowering Governments and people to take action. Therefore, can the Minister explain why this Government oppose ethnicity pay gap reporting?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

No one should have to worry that they are not being given the same opportunities as their colleagues at work. That is why the Government have today published guidance to employers on ethnicity pay reporting as part of the Inclusive Britain strategy.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, back in 2017, the Prime Minister announced a review of our mental health laws, which we all know have disproportionately affected those from ethnic-minority backgrounds. The Joint Committee reported to the Government in January this year and advised—boldly—that the Government abolish community treatment orders, which are 11 times more likely to be applied to those of black British backgrounds. When will we see the new mental health Bill so that we can pass it swiftly through Parliament?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I am afraid that I cannot say to my noble friend when the Bill will come through; I understand that it depends on parliamentary time. However, I can say that the Government and NHS England are already taking forward non-legislative work to address racial disparities in mental health, including piloting services which explore approaches to identifying, supporting and advocating for the specific cultural needs of people from ethnic-minority backgrounds.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness disputes the United Nations report. How, then, does she assess our own British report, recently published, from the University of St Andrews and backed by the Economic and Social Research Council which sets out searing disparities between many ethnicities, not least those white minority-ethnic groups—Gypsies, Travellers and Roma—who suffer the worst discrimination of all? This has gone on for years; what are the Government going to do about it?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

As I have already said, the Government believe that this country is open and welcoming, but obviously we are not complacent. We will continue to look at all those reports being written by eminent people; we will look at the recommendations and, if necessary, we will act.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

The statement of the UN working group foretells what the report is going to say in September, so we have had fair warning. If the Government disagree, why do they not start formulating a plan now for tackling our structural, institutional and systematic racism instead of meekly waiting for the report to land?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I think I have already said that we are not waiting. We have a strategy called the Inclusive Britain strategy, which has been going for a year. Today, we published the first results of that strategy. We will wait until the September final report and look at whether there is anything further that we have to do, but, actually, we are doing it before we get that report.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Lilley (Con)]

Did my noble friend give the visiting body a copy of the excellent Sewell report? It showed that, though discrimination and prejudice exist, are wrong and should be combated, they could not account for most of the disparities. For example, there is a huge disparity between performance of black people from the Caribbean and black people from Africa. Nor could they account for the fact that one of the worst performing groups is white working class people. Did this body comment on those facts?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

No, I do not think it did comment on those facts, yet my noble friend is absolutely right: we had a Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities report written by the esteemed commissioners, and that Sewell report was the basis for our strategy as it stands today. My noble friend brings up a very interesting issue, which is that in all races and faiths there will be some people who need more help than others, and that is exactly what we will be doing in this country.