Sexually Transmitted Infections: England

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

The noble Baroness is expert in this area and often raises this issue. She is absolutely right that antimicrobial resistance among some STIs is a growing concern. Public Health England has a world-class surveillance system to enable early detection and management of antimicrobial resistance. It is particularly an issue when it comes to gonorrhoea, and it uses that intelligence to advise the national gonorrhoea treatment guidelines. We will continue to keep on high alert when it comes to these matters.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, the number of reported gonorrhoea cases has increased by 176.6% among multi-race persons over the last six years. How exactly is the issue being tackled in this community and what funding will be made available for it?

Asthma

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

The noble Baroness will have heard in my opening remarks that we have put treating asthma and respiratory diseases as a key priority within the NHS Long Term Plan precisely because we recognise that we need to improve our performance on respiratory diseases. Working with Asthma UK, we have identified that one of the key challenges in improving performance has been the identification of those with severe asthma and providing them with an appropriate care plan. That is exactly why we are pleased that a new NICE quality standard, QOF and the RightCare programme are in place; these should help to improve referrals and outcomes for patients as is desperately needed.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, as the Government roll out the early diagnosis centres, including for lung-health checks, across the country, will they be looking to implement recommendation 1e of the lung task force as part of their strategy, so that air pollution is monitored and the NHS can provide advice when pollution levels are high?

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

I thank my noble friend. She is right that we need to improve our response to those at high risk of respiratory illness. That is partly why we are improving our offer on mobile lung-health screening, specifically as part of the national targeted lung health checks programme. It is also why we are offering smoking cessation advice and treatment as part of that service. We offer the general population and vulnerable groups advice via the daily air quality index, but she is right: we need to improve our monitoring of air pollution if we are to make progress on this issue. It is something that I will take up with the department.

Social Care: Free Personal Care

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Wednesday 26th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

I thank the noble Baroness for the important point she has raised. The Government have established an interministerial group for disability chaired by the Secretary of State for DWP on exactly this point to identify barriers for those with disabilities and to drive forward co-ordinated action across government to try to address this. We are identifying organisations required to provide quality and comprehensive services based on clinical need which do not discriminate between patients on the basis of disability. I will take away the points the noble Baroness has raised because they are hugely important.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, there are examples of good social care packages across the country, but these are patchy. Can the Minister say exactly how the Government are currently disseminating good practice so that the elderly and young people who need social care packages get them now rather than in the future?

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

I thank my noble friend for her question. We should pay tribute to those who work very hard in the social care system under very challenging circumstances. Swindon, for example, has brought in a co-designed service with users and an increase in reablement of 150%, bringing an annual saving of £1.9 million to the health and care economy, while also reducing DTOC. Services and improvements such as these should be spread across the system. That is exactly what the better care fund is designed to do, and it is what the new models of care commitment within the NHS long-term plan will spread across the system so that we can improve social care for all.

Unpaid Carers: Support

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Thursday 13th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

The right reverend Prelate is quite right to identify this as a crucial issue. The Government believe that children should be protected from inappropriate and excessive caring responsibilities. We changed the law to improve the way that young carers are identified, and we are supporting schools to support carers and working with the Carers Trust to identify and spread best practice. Just today, working with the Children’s Society, which he rightly says has led this project to identify and disseminate best practice, guidance and resources will be published to enable young adult carers to make positive transitions between the ages of 16 and 24. We hope that this will improve the outcomes that young carers experience.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted by the Carers Action Plan, which is a very important piece of work for many thousands of carers in the country. Can my noble friend say exactly what progress is being made in implementing this plan and how success will be measured?

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

I thank my noble friend for this important question. The Carers Action Plan was a real step in the right direction. It has 64 action points and good progress has been made. There will be a progress report in July. Some key steps in it are promoting best practice for local authorities, clinical commissioning groups and other providers in order to give carers much-needed breaks and respite care, which can be the difference between coping and not coping; and providing carer-confident benchmarks for employers who can identify carers within their systems and give them the support they need. Of course, there is also the work I have already mentioned: the £5 million carers innovation fund to find more creative and innovative ways to support carers, who are so crucial to our health and care system.

NHS: Bullying

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, zero tolerance is really important in a workplace, but what are the Government doing to ensure that more senior managers and clinicians do not sexually harass and bully more junior staff?

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

My noble friend is right that we must ensure that bullying, wherever it comes from, is reported. It is just as unacceptable that bullying should come from managers and senior people as from those below. As I said in my Answer, the reported level of bullying from managers is 3.2%. This is one reason why we have introduced the “freedom to speak up” guardian, so that NHS workers are free to speak up and feel that they can do so in a safe space.

Social Workers: Recruitment and Retention

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

I thank the noble Baroness for what is a very important Question. She is absolutely right that we have to ensure that we recruit and retain the social work workforce: it is vital and, like any employers, local authorities are responsible for ensuring that they have the right staff with the right skills. The Government also recognise that we have a role in supporting them. That is why we provide financial support to students who qualify as social workers. We make sure that those entering social work receive the best training possible, with some new programmes to support those who are newly qualified, such as the assessed supported year in employment, so that those who come in with quite a significant workload can be supported in their first year. We understand that high caseloads can be a challenge. Local authorities are responsible for the recruitment and deployment of social workers, but we work with them to think about how they can best manage the delivery of services and make caseloads manageable so that we retain those social workers who are vital to delivering care and support for some of the most vulnerable in our society.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, social work can be a very rewarding career but it can also be very stressful, as has been said, so can my noble friend say exactly how we are supporting young graduate social workers? She said a bit about that but how, in their first, second and third year, can we actually retain them?

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

My noble friend is absolutely right that social workers do vital jobs and that it is an attractive career choice. More than 4,000 students enrol in social work courses every year, and we have introduced a fast-track graduate programme that has brought 2,000 more into the social work programme. However, it will work only if we retain those within the system, so we have developed some post-qualifying standards for social workers at key stages of their career to create a consistent, practice-based career progression. In particular, we have introduced the assessed year in the workforce to provide that key level of support in the first year, so that those who experience the shock of the caseload in their first year have the support that they need to remain in the profession and develop the key skills to be able to manage that workload.

Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 12th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton]

My Lords, I added my name to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and I am grateful that he has made the argument so I do not need to repeat it. Of course, I spoke about this in Committee and, like other noble Lords, I was reassured at the time by the explanation given by the noble Baroness, Lady Manzoor. Since then, however, the Bill team has actually made available the Bill data processing factsheet, which is very useful. It explains things in great detail, so I wondered whether it might be a good idea if this was given to everybody involved with this Bill. I do not know whether the noble Lord has seen this, but it is a very useful piece of information. Otherwise, I was satisfied in Committee, and if the Minister answers the questions, I am sure that I will remain satisfied.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Jolly and Lady Thornton, for tabling Amendment 14 and raising the issue of the lawful and responsible processing of data. I start with an apology to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones. My noble friend Lady Blackwood did write to the noble Lord, and I am sorry that he has not yet received the letter. We will endeavour to send him another copy as soon as possible.

As my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy said—and I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Patel, that—data sharing is a necessary and crucial aspect of maintaining effective complex reciprocal healthcare arrangements, and the Government are committed to the safe, lawful processing of people’s personal data. There are, as the noble Lord said, safeguards in place in respect of processing personal data for the purposes set out under the Bill, for which the Bill makes express provision. The Bill makes it absolutely clear that it does not authorise the processing of data that contravenes UK data protection legislation.

Data processing will be permitted only for the limited purposes set out in the Bill. Personal data will be processed in accordance with UK data protection law—as the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, observed—namely, the Data Protection Act 2018 and the general data protection regulation, which will form part of UK domestic law under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 from exit day.

I assure the noble Lords, Lord Patel and Lord Clement- Jones, and the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, that the Caldicott principles are an important part of the governance of confidential patient information in the NHS and a guiding mechanism for organisations in how they should handle confidential patient information on a practical level. The NHS is expected to adhere to these principles.

Since 1999, NHS bodies have been mandated to appoint a Caldicott Guardian. These principles are therefore ingrained in the current operation of the NHS and confidential patient data handled by the NHS for purposes in relation to reciprocal healthcare will be subject to these principles. The principles are consistent with the requirements of the GDPR and a breach of the Caldicott principles would most likely amount to a breach of the GDPR and the Data Protection Act 2018. The principles are not intended for statute but are of real practical and operational importance when confidential patient information is processed. This will be the case when confidential patient information needed for reciprocal healthcare arrangements is processed.

It is also worth noting that reciprocal healthcare arrangements will not normally involve the processing of confidential patient information, except in particular circumstances, such as facilitating planned treatment. However, where this information is processed through reciprocal healthcare arrangements under the NHS, it must comply with UK data protection legislation. NHS organisations, as they do now, will be required to adhere to the Caldicott principles. The data ethics framework that the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned sets out collective standards and ethical frameworks for how data should be used across the whole public sector, as well as the standards for transparency and accountability when building or buying new data technology. Where the framework refers to personal data, it consistently cross-refers to the principles in the GDPR, which is the relevant legislation that policymakers must consider when processing personal data.

Personal data processed for the purposes of reciprocal healthcare arrangements would therefore also take into account the data ethics framework. In addition, from 1 April 2019, the National Data Guardian will be put on a statutory footing and will therefore be able to issue formal guidance and informal advice to organisations and individuals about the processing of health and adult social care data in England. This will provide patients statutory independent oversight of the use of health data, with health bodies being required by law to have regard to the guidance issued by the National Data Guardian. This is another way in which NHS organisations in England which are processing data in respect of reciprocal healthcare will be monitored and personal data can be further protected as necessary.

It is important to note that express reference to these principles in the Bill would not provide any additional protections for personal data or confidential patient information, as the standard of protections required is the same as the existing data protection legislation already provided for in the Bill. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and others for their support in observing this. Furthermore, as I have said, these principles already apply to NHS organisations and will continue to do so in respect of reciprocal healthcare. As a result, it would be inappropriate to put these in the Bill and I am therefore unable to accept the amendment. However, the Government have listened carefully to concerns surrounding the list of persons who can lawfully process data as a part of implementing new reciprocal healthcare arrangements under the Bill and have tabled an amendment on this issue.

Currently, the list of authorised persons under the Bill includes the Secretary of State, Scottish Ministers, Welsh Ministers and a Northern Ireland department, NHS bodies and providers of healthcare. Of course, over time, public bodies change, are reformed and refashioned, and functions are transferred between them in consequence. Clause 4(6)(e) gives the Secretary of State the ability to respond to such changes so that systems can operate efficiently and data can follow in an appropriate and lawful way to enable such operation. We propose, however, subjecting any regulations that add to the list of persons authorised to process data for the purposes of the Bill to the draft affirmative procedure. This would allow Parliament the opportunity to scrutinise authorised persons handling personal data while ensuring that the Government have the ability to guarantee that future agreements are administered in the most efficient way possible.

The Government are firmly committed to the safe, lawful processing of personal data, and to ensuring that patients have enforceable protections under data protection legislation. I hope, given my assurances that any data processing under the Bill would comply with the Caldicott principles and the data ethics framework as appropriate, that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, kindly mentioned the factsheet. Of course, if it is useful, we would be very happy to put this in the Library. Officials do a tremendous job and I am very grateful to them. I hope, with the assurance I have given noble Lords, and the fact we are providing greater scrutiny, that the noble Lord feels able to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord Clement-Jones]

My Lords, that was exactly the kind of robust response from the Minister that I was hoping for. It is very rare that I listen to a government response and nod all the way through, so I thank her for that very careful response, both on the Caldicott principles and the framework for data ethics, and for going into the accountabilities, and the affirmative procedure guarantee at the end—that was a bouquet. It is not that we on these and other Benches do not understand the value of NHS data and the real importance of that balance. This is not designed as a negative approach to the use of NHS data; it has huge potential benefits, but we have to make sure that it is kept within that ethical framework. The Minister has demonstrated that that kind of culture is ingrained—or is certainly expected to be ingrained—in the NHS and that Caldicott Guardians, post 1 April, will be very much on the case. In those circumstances, with pleasure, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Manzoor]

15: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause—
“Requirement for consultation with devolved authorities
(1) Before making regulations under section 2 that contain provision which is within the legislative competence of a devolved legislature, the Secretary of State must consult the relevant devolved authority on that provision.(2) In this section—“devolved authority” means the Scottish Ministers, the Welsh Ministers or a Northern Ireland department;“devolved legislature” means the Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales or the Northern Ireland Assembly.(3) A provision is within the legislative competence of a devolved legislature if—(a) it would be within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament if it were contained in an Act of the Scottish Parliament;(b) it would be within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales if it were contained in an Act of the Assembly (including any provision that could only be made with the consent of a Minister of the Crown); or(c) the provision, if it were contained in an Act of the Northern Ireland Assembly—(i) would be within the legislative competence of the Assembly, and(ii) would not require the consent of the Secretary of State.”

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, in Committee, the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton, Lady Jolly, and Lady Humphreys, tabled amendments on devolution and specifically sought to place an obligation on the Government to consult with the devolved Administrations when making regulations under this Bill. We listened very carefully to that debate and were committed to bringing forward a government amendment which set out, on the face of the Bill, a duty to consult the devolved Administrations where regulations under Clause 2 would make provisions that would be within the legislative competence of a devolved legislature. Government Amendment 15 fulfils this commitment.

I am delighted that the Scottish Parliament has granted a legislative consent Motion to the Bill and that the Welsh Government have tabled a consent motion in the Welsh Assembly recommending that the Assembly, which is debating the Motion today, grants consent to the Bill. We have also had positive and productive engagement with colleagues in the Northern Ireland Department of Health and in the Northern Ireland Office. We are grateful for their support and agreement to ensure that this Bill applies and extends to Northern Ireland.

The regulation-making powers in the Bill provide us with a legal mechanism to implement comprehensive international healthcare agreements into domestic law and provide for healthcare outside the UK for the benefit of all UK nationals. It is, however, recognised that these powers may be used in ways which relate to devolved matters, by which I mean domestic healthcare. In light of this, the amendment provides:

“Before making regulations under Section 2 that contain provision which is within the legislative competence of a devolved legislature, the Secretary of State must consult the relevant devolved authority”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness (LD)]

My Lords, I signed the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, in Committee. Indeed, as I indicated in the speech I made then, when evidence was given to the Scottish Parliament committee that was looking at the legislative consent Motion memorandum issue, there was an expectation that there would be a consent provision in the Bill. The noble Baroness, Lady Blackwood of North Oxford, clearly indicated an intention to do so when she replied to the debate; I put on record an appreciation of the fact that we now have this delivered in letter and in spirit.

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Wheeler and Lady Humphreys, for their support for this amendment.

I point out to the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, that of course consent means exactly that. We have gone a long way to set out a memorandum of understanding that is mutually beneficial; it will be a beneficial working relationship to ensure that the devolved Administrations will continue to play a vital role in delivering reciprocal healthcare. We will continue to consult and to work closely with them, both at ministerial and official level. I therefore reassure her on that point.

I will write to clarify the issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, raised. As I said, the MoU that we have agreed sets out our future working relationship, which will include consideration of where compliances overlap.

This amendment represents our close working relationship; I give an assurance from the Government that we are committed to ensuring that arrangements will be conducive to the development of a reciprocal healthcare system that operates effectively across the whole of the UK in a way that fully respects the devolution settlements. I hope that, with the assurances I have given, noble Lords will feel able to support the amendment.

Amendment 15 agreed.

Moved by

[Baroness Manzoor]

16: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause—
“Report on payments made under this Act
(1) The Secretary of State must, in relation to each relevant period—(a) prepare a report in accordance with this section, and(b) lay the report before Parliament as soon as practicable after the end of the period.(2) Each report must give details of payments made under the powers conferred by or under this Act.(3) “Relevant period” means—(a) the period beginning with the day on which this Act is passed and ending with the end of the first financial year to begin after exit day;(b) each subsequent period of 12 months.(4) “Financial year” means the period of 12 months beginning with 1 April.”

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, financial reporting in the context of the Bill has already been the subject of debate in Committee. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and my noble friend Lord Dundee, who, sadly, is not here today, tabled an amendment on this matter, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Brinton, Lady Wheeler, Lady Jolly and Lady Finlay, also spoke on this important matter.

While we were unable to support the amendment tabled in Committee, the Government supported its spirit, in line with our ongoing commitment to transparency, particularly when it comes to the use of public money. We made this clear in our letter to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee earlier this year, and I am pleased now to introduce this government amendment, which provides a statutory duty to publish an annual report. Government Amendment 16 places a duty on the Secretary of State to lay a report before Parliament each year. This report will outline all payments made during the preceding financial year in respect of healthcare arrangements implemented by the Bill. I believe this amendment directly addresses many of the concerns raised by noble Lords in Committee, and the clear request for increased scrutiny of the use of public money.

The nature and implementation of future reciprocal healthcare agreements is, of course, a matter for future negotiations. However, we envisage that, through this reporting mechanism, we would also be able to provide Parliament with further information on the operation of future agreements. For example, we anticipate that this report would include details of both expenditure and income to reflect the reciprocal nature of agreements.

The amendment provides for annual reports, which will be published as soon as is practicable after the end of each financial year. Expenditure by the Department of Health and Social Care relating to EU reciprocal healthcare arrangements is currently published to Parliament in the form of annual resource accounts. Reporting on future reciprocal healthcare arrangements will continue in this way. Indeed, as now, the department’s future expenditure on reciprocal healthcare will be subject to the existing government reporting requirements. For example, DHSC income and expenditure accounts, relating to current EU reciprocal healthcare arrangements, are already audited by the Comptroller and Auditor-General and published by the Treasury as part of the annual report presented to Parliament.

However, the Government have heard the need for greater transparency in our administration and implementation of reciprocal healthcare arrangements. Moreover, we understand the importance of presenting this information in a clear and accessible document, which is why we propose to go beyond the current reporting requirements with this amendment. Our intention is that Parliament should have clear and easy-to-access details of the public spending on healthcare arrangements implemented under the Bill.

Noble Lords have also expressed concern over the scope of the powers in the Bill. This proposal works alongside the Government’s other amendments in providing clarity. It allows for increased parliamentary scrutiny in respect of costs incurred in relation to future healthcare arrangements.

We remain committed to financial transparency. The amendment ensures that we are able to continue providing Parliament with further opportunities for scrutiny. I hope that your Lordships will be able to offer their support to this amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment 17 (to Amendment 16)

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lansley]

I am making a simpler point: it is no good asking for information that is not collected. There is a good reason why it is not collected. Although, this might happen in future, at the moment I do not think anybody is proposing to switch the Australian and New Zealand agreements to ones where there is reciprocal reimbursement. In this case, I do not think the information is being collected.

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, for her amendment and to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and my noble friend Lord Lansley for their contributions. I am not sure I want to go down this route. However, if the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, wants me to write to her to clarify the point she raised, I will certainly do so. From what I have seen, my noble friend Lord Lansley is correct in saying that we have a reciprocal agreement with the countries he mentioned, where money does not exchange hands.

I can reassure the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Brinton, that—as I indicate—the Government have listened to the need for greater transparency in the administration and implementation of reciprocal healthcare arrangements. I welcome the support around the House for our intentions. We understand the importance of presenting this information in a clear and accessible document, which is why we propose to go beyond the current reporting requirements. Our initial commitment to the DPRRC is contained in the amendment that the Government have tabled on this matter.

As I said, the government amendment directly addresses concerns raised by noble Lords. I hope it reassures noble Lords and demonstrates that we have listened to the clear request for increased scrutiny of the use of public money.

The amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, would ensure that specific requirements are reported on. The detailed content of the financial report should—and could only—be determined, once reciprocal healthcare agreements have been made and technical and operational details are known. We do not know what these agreements may be in future. If we accepted the amendment, we would be placing a statutory duty on future Administrations to collect and report on data we have not yet agreed to exchange with other countries. This is not appropriate.

Our amendment is a more feasible way of reporting on future healthcare arrangements that does not pre-empt their nature or how they may be implemented, but still allows for transparency and accountability, which the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and other noble Lords seek. It is a baseline, and we intend to go further than just reporting on payments, but we cannot provide a statutory obligation to do so.

The Department for Health and Social Care is currently working to ensure that UK nationals can continue to access healthcare in the EU in the same way they do now, either through an agreement at EU level or through agreements with relevant member states. In either case, we will have to agree how eligibility is evidenced, how—and how frequently—that information is exchanged and the reimbursement mechanisms that will govern those new agreements. Such agreements will have to take into account the operational possibilities and limitations of each contracting party to ensure the smooth operation of reciprocal healthcare arrangements. This should include how NHS trusts in the UK can evidence eligibility for the treatment of non-UK citizens in the most efficient and least burdensome manner.

Once those administrative details are known, the Government will be able to speak confidently to the specific measures that can be reported on for each country. There is an annual reporting mechanism in the government amendment to provide such detail. I acknowledge that the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, is well meaning and agree with its spirit, but the level of detail proposed in it could constrain or create unnecessary burden when administering future healthcare arrangements that have not yet been negotiated.

It is in the interest of neither the Government nor Parliament to force unnecessary administrative burdens on the NHS, which the amendment could inadvertently cause. The level of detail required in the amendment may create new reporting requirements on front-line NHS services.

As always, should the noble Baroness wish, the Minister or others from the department would be very happy to meet her to talk further about the issues, once we have a clear understanding of future negotiations and how they progress. I hope I have reiterated the Government’s commitment to accountable financial reporting, and that the noble Baroness and other noble Lords feel reassured on our commitment to ensuring that sufficient and appropriate checks and balances are in place on reciprocal health agreements. I hope she will agree that her amendment, which places a statutory duty on future Administrations to collect and report on data we have not yet agreed to exchange with other countries, is inappropriate. I hope I have reassured her and other noble Lords and she feels able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Thornton]

I thank the Minister. I said from the outset that this was a probing amendment and I therefore beg leave to withdraw it.

Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Tuesday 19th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Patel, for moving Amendment 11 and highlighting the importance of an appropriate definition of healthcare in the Bill.

We have adapted the definition set out in the Health and Social Care Act 2012 to include the additional element of ancillary care, as the noble Lord noted. This is to reflect where current arrangements provide for ancillary costs, such as travel costs, which do not strictly fall within the definition of healthcare. This would be for use in such circumstances as in France, where residents are reimbursed with a contribution to their travel costs when attending healthcare appointments. The definition of healthcare in Clause 3 ensures that we can implement arrangements that are based on the current EU arrangements, if negotiated in future.

The noble Lord indicated that this is a probing amendment and, as a former clinician, he will understand that limiting the definition to exclude certain conditions would be inappropriate, as it is not in the UK’s jurisdiction to determine what level of access to healthcare should be provided in another country. It is up to each country to determine what is available as part of its public healthcare system, as we do here in the NHS. The government definition would enable individuals to access healthcare on those terms under reciprocal healthcare agreements. The Government are committed to ensuring access to healthcare in line with current arrangements, and that UK nationals can continue to benefit from them, as they do now.

The Government have been clear during the passage of the Bill—this alights at the heart of the noble Lord’s question—that access to social care in England would not be provided through any reciprocal healthcare agreement. However, it is worth noting that some types of treatment related to dementia care can be medical in nature and may be provided by the NHS. As the noble Lord knows, in the UK, we treat all people with any physical or mental health condition. This demonstrates the complexity of the issues that narrowing the scope of such an important definition in the Bill may afford. I hope the noble Lord, Lord Patel, will therefore agree that the definition used in the Bill is the most sensible. However, I thank him—he is a noble friend—for raising this important issue. With the assurances I have given, I hope he will feel able to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Patel]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her comments. I raised this issue only to make sure that whenever such agreements are made, it is borne in mind that there may be implications for other conditions not directly regarded as mental or physical health conditions; for example, an increasing number of people have dementia. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, in Amendment 15 the noble Baronesses, Lady Wheeler, Lady Brinton and Lady Finlay, and my noble friend Lord Dundee raise an important issue on the importance of financial reporting and facilitating parliamentary scrutiny, which I can assure noble Lords that the Government are committed to ensuring. As the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, said, this was also the subject of Labour Front-Bench amendments in the Commons and is an issue that the Government have carefully considered. I would like to reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, and my noble friend Lord Dundee that—as the Minister, my noble friend Lady Blackwood, set out at Second Reading—the Government are committed to openness in managing public money. I understand the desire for transparency in this area. Noble Lords can be reassured that, as indicated by the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, there are existing robust annual reporting processes, overseen by the Comptroller and Auditor-General, that are used today and cover reciprocal health and other departmental spending.

Expenditure by the Department of Health and Social Care relating to EU reciprocal healthcare arrangements is currently published to Parliament in the form of annual resource accounts, and this will continue. This reporting allows for scrutiny by both Houses of Parliament, as well as the Public Accounts Committee. As now, the department’s future expenditure on reciprocal healthcare will be subject to the existing government reporting requirements. However, the Government have heard the need for greater transparency in our administration and implementation of reciprocal healthcare arrangements. The Government are also committed to transparency and the prudent use of public money. This is why we have committed to going beyond the current reporting requirements.

As explained by the Minister, my noble friend Lady Blackwood, at Second Reading, the Government have committed to issuing an annual ministerial Statement on the operation of the reciprocal healthcare arrangements. The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, asked what this ministerial Statement would include. I am afraid that I cannot comment on that, because it is subject to any arrangements we enter into with the countries concerned. The Statement will be published as soon as is practical at the end of each financial year. It will include, but will not be limited to, reporting on the expenditure and income of reciprocal arrangements as a whole. This could include aggregated expenditure and income for the year, as well as country-by-country sums of expenditure and income. It could also provide an overview of the operation of arrangements, identifying areas of successful operation. I hope that that allays the fears that the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, expressed. The types of reciprocal agreement entered into will determine the content of the Statement, as I said. However, I am happy to meet the noble Baroness to discuss these details further.

I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, and my noble friend Lord Dundee feel reassured on our commitment to ensuring that there are sufficient and appropriate checks and balances in place on reciprocal healthcare agreements and agree that it is not necessary to set out in the Bill detailed provisions on reporting. In any case, as I said, the frequency and detailed content of a financial report should and could only be determined once reciprocal healthcare agreements have been made. Currently, the UK and other EU member states are able to collect data and report both nationally as well as at EU level, as provided for in the relevant EU regulations.

The department is currently working to ensure that UK nationals can continue to access healthcare in the EU in the same way as they do now, either through an agreement at EU level or through agreements with relevant member states. In either case, we will have to agree how eligibility is evidenced, the way that and frequency with which information is exchanged and the reimbursement mechanisms that will govern these new agreements. Each of these could differ from country to country. Such agreements will have to take into account the operational possibilities and limitations of each contracting party to ensure the smooth operation of reciprocal healthcare arrangements. This should include how NHS trusts in the UK can evidence eligibility for the treatment of non-UK citizens in the most efficient and least burdensome manner. Once these administrative details are known, the Government will be able to confidently speak to the specific measures that can be reported for each country. It is therefore unnecessary to set out detailed reporting provisions in the Bill for aspects that are subject to negotiations.

It must not be forgotten, however, that regardless of the specifics of any arrangements entered into, as with all departmental expenditure, reciprocal healthcare costs are and will continue to be authorised by the Treasury supply process and included in the department’s annual estimates, as well as being included in the annual resource accounts, which, as I said, are audited by the Comptroller and Auditor-General.

The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, raised this issue, and it was raised earlier this evening. Let me be very clear that we do not need new front-line NHS processes to charge visitors and tourists from the EU, either directly or via reciprocal healthcare arrangements. We already have processes in place for non-EU visitors. After exit day, instead of identifying EU visitors for the purposes of EHIC claims, they will be identified for the purposes of whether they are chargeable directly or covered by a reciprocal healthcare arrangement, in the same way as non-EU visitors are currently identified. They will then be charged as appropriate.

I will end by saying this. As well as the auditing that will be done by the Auditor-General, as I have mentioned, the Government have committed to lay before the House an annual ministerial Statement, which will provide an additional check and balance on the Government’s reciprocal healthcare arrangements. I hope that I have a given sufficient assurances to noble Lords, and that the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

Can the noble Baroness confirm whether she is absolutely confident that the current systems in place to pick up those coming from abroad who should not be treated on the NHS and who should be charged for their care are 100% effective? How many of those systems are not effective? I am concerned that, with a potentially increased number of people coming into the system, any system that is already not functioning well will just fall over unless more people are put in to administer it.

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, no one can ever be 100% confident, but we are putting in place robust charging mechanisms. Each trust has an accountable person to look at how charging is working. We are working very closely with NHS organisations to ensure that, where charging needs to take place, it is done effectively and efficiently.

[Baroness Brinton]

I want to go back to the issue of the report. The noble Baroness read out a litany of different places where different items would be reported. Is there some benefit to having it all in one place? I do not know about other noble Lords, but I would be quite content if the annual ministerial Statement incorporated what is set out in the proposed new clause in the amendment—the information that parliamentarians think they want. But I wonder whether all parliamentarians, or anybody outside, would know all the different places to look for the odd sentence here and there in reports once a year.

[Baroness Manzoor]

I fully understand the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. I always believe in a simplified place, but those are the accounting rules that we have for government and therefore they remain. We have gone the additional mile by saying that we will place on record a ministerial Statement at the end of each financial year and that this will include the areas I have indicated.

[Baroness Jolly (LD)]

The Minister referred to arrangements being put into NHS organisations to make this happen—but what about GP practices? If you talk to GPs, they will tell you that they are in private partnerships. Presumably the Government are talking to the Royal College. The last time I had a conversation with GPs was five or six years ago, when they were totally averse to collecting money for their services. Can the Minister clarify whether things have changed?

[Baroness Manzoor]

I can clarify that NHS trusts are funded on the basis of existing agreements and will provide additional funding for any new agreements reached within the powers of the Bill. The same thing will apply to GPs where charges need to be made for people who are not entitled to that care and do not fall within the reciprocal arrangements that we have in place. The procedure would apply as it currently applies and such people would be charged as appropriate. If they are part of the reciprocal agreements that we have, whether bilaterally or multilaterally, such charges will not be incurred.

[Baroness Wheeler]

I thank the Minister for her response. Whichever way you look at it, it is a complex system for reporting information across a wide range of different sources. The point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, about having the information in one place as part of the ministerial Statement needs to be pursued, and I hope that the Minister will do that. I noted her agreement to discussing it or exchanging correspondence about it, but important matters need to be set out in the ministerial Statement—albeit that the information is presented elsewhere—in order to reassure and inform us about how these agreements are working. With that proviso, I withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton, Lady Brinton and Lady Finlay, for tabling Amendment 16 and providing the opportunity to address two important issues: the processes we have in place to recover costs from overseas visitors and how we support the NHS to deliver services to people covered by reciprocal healthcare agreements. As the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, noted, there is complexity in the system, but this amendment proposes a new obligation upon the Secretary of State for Health to provide sufficient funding to the NHS to administer reciprocal healthcare agreements implemented using the powers in the Bill.

I reassure all noble Lords that the Government are committed to ensuring that the NHS is funded and fit for the future. Through the NHS long-term plan and the historic commitment of an extra £20.5 billion a year, we are working to make sure the NHS is fit for future patients, their families and NHS staff.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Brinton and Lady Finlay, raised two issues. They asked whether there will be 27 different agreements that require implementation. Our intention is to reach agreement with the EU so that there will be one agreement to implement. If agreements are negotiated with individual countries, it will depend on the content of the agreement being implemented, but I stress that we do not need new systems to implement them. We are not expecting costs to be much greater than at present. Every hard-working taxpayer plays a part in supporting our much-loved NHS, so it is only right that overseas visitors also make a contribution to the health service, whether that be individually, through the immigration health surcharge or through their Government reimbursing the treatment costs incurred.

The NHS has been responsible for delivering the current reciprocal healthcare arrangements for as long as they have been in operation and it has been sufficiently resourced to do so. Funding is distributed to NHS providers as part of general allocations. These support all the administrative costs associated with patient care, not just any costs associated with administering reciprocal healthcare agreements. That applies to clinical commissioning groups, which then apply funding to GPs.

We have robust administrative processes in place to recover costs from overseas visitors. These are managed by overseas visitor managers and their teams, who identify whether visitors are chargeable or are directly covered by an existing reciprocal healthcare arrangement.

Perhaps I may further reassure noble Lords that there are benefits for NHS providers who deliver services to those currently covered by EU reciprocal healthcare agreements. NHS providers receive an EHIC incentive payment of 25% of the tariff for the treatment provided to an overseas visitor covered by an EHIC. Trusts can reinvest these incentives in front-line services, meaning that we can continue to protect the most vulnerable in society and ensure that everyone receives urgent care when they need it. This is a scheme that we would certainly want to continue.

The Government have also made significant progress on charging overseas visitors and recouping funds where appropriate. However, as I indicated on the previous amendment, we want to go further—we are not quite there yet. Since 2015, we have increased identified income for the NHS with reciprocal arrangements by 40% and directly charged income has increased by 86% over the same period. Although we are satisfied that we are moving in the right direction, as I said, there is more to be done. That is why we are working with NHS Improvement to drive further improvements in the practice of cost recovery. A bespoke improvement team is working with over 50 NHS trusts to provide on-the-ground support and to share best practice.

I understand and commend the spirit behind this proposed new clause—we all want to ensure the best for our NHS—but it seems that it would replicate existing duties on the Secretary of State for Health. As the noble Baroness is aware, the Secretary of State is under an existing duty to promote a comprehensive health service, available to all who need the support that it provides. This duty encompasses ensuring that the NHS is funded for the services that it provides. Funding to provide treatment for overseas visitors is, and will continue to be, distributed to NHS providers as part of general allocations.

Further, I reassure noble Lords that any future reciprocal healthcare agreements that the UK implements through this Bill will be subject to thorough consideration and will need to take into account the existing duties on the Secretary of State to promote a comprehensive health service available to all who need the support that it provides.

I hope that my explanation has provided further reassurance to noble Lords that the Government are absolutely committed to protecting the NHS, and that the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness Brinton]

I am grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Finlay and Lady Thornton, for their contributions to this brief debate, and indeed to the Minister for her response, even though I am somewhat disappointed by it. The point that all three of us were trying to make is that we are asking not for new processes but for reassurance that the costs will be reimbursed to trusts. As the Minister said, there is a general allocation, and one thing that we have discussed repeatedly since Second Reading is that there is a strong likelihood of substantially more non-EEA-type payments if there is a no-deal Brexit or if there are loads of different reciprocal arrangements that will make life very complex for hospital trusts and primary care providers.

As a brief illustration, currently when a non-EEA patient pays, half of it goes to the commissioner and half goes to the trust. The commissioner then pays half of it back to the trust and so it goes on. It is a complex arrangement. If we suddenly have 27 different arrangements just to cope with life after the EEA or with a no-deal Brexit, I can see that it will be very complex. It would be easy for NHS England—and, indeed, the Government—to miss trusts being unable to cope with the deluge of different arrangements they have to support.

At this stage, this is very much a probing amendment. I am happy to withdraw it this evening but I reserve the right to bring it back in the future. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

The final element I want to speak to is that of non-NHS providers. This is rather important, because a number of non-NHS providers provide healthcare on behalf of the health system. It is not just the obvious ones that have been mentioned—I include GPs in that. It might also be private bodies carrying out NHS-funded care. A lot of diagnostic care is carried out by third parties. It might also cover providers of healthcare IT that records data. If we think of such systems as TTP, Cerner, Epic and so on that are used in hospitals, we would clearly want those bodies to be legally able to share that information. Of course, it needs to be connected with the healthcare purpose, but it is important that the Bill allows for that kind of latitude in a variety of ways, as I said. We must be absolutely clear—that is what I am seeking from my noble friend—that because of GDPR, because of the need and demand for adequacy on behalf of another country, a reciprocal partner, we would not be entering into the kind of arrangements that would bring the kinds of concerns that the public and, indeed, parliamentarians would have.

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Patel and Lord Kakkar, even though the latter is not here, for Amendment 22, the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, for Amendment 23, the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, for Amendment 24, and the noble Lord, Lord Patel, for Amendment 25. Each amendment allows me to speak to strict data processing protections in the Bill.

As my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy said, data processing is an important element of operating effective complex reciprocal healthcare arrangements, such as the current arrangements we have with the EU. I reassure noble Lords that the Government are committed to the safe, lawful processing of people’s data in healthcare. Clause 4 provides a lawful basis for the processing of data in respect of future reciprocal healthcare arrangements that are outside the EU regulations mechanism. Data processing will be permitted only for the limited purposes set out in the Bill.

Under the Bill, personal data can be processed only in accordance with UK data protection law, namely the Data Protection Act 2018 and the general data protection regulation, which will form part of UK domestic law under the EU withdrawal Act 2018 from exit day. The purpose of including data provision in the Bill is to provide a transparent basis for the processing of personal data for the purposes of funding or arranging healthcare abroad. That is it, my Lords.

On this point, I address Amendment 22, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Patel and Lord Kakkar, which would limit the scope of personal data processed to data directly related to health. Although I appreciate the sentiment behind the amendment, it would unfortunately undermine the successful operation of reciprocal healthcare arrangements. Personal data is defined in the GDPR as data relating to a living person who can be directly or indirectly identified from that data. Examples include someone’s name, date of birth or residential address.

For example, the current European health insurance card scheme allows for UK nationals to access emergency and needs-arising care when travelling, working short-term or studying in the EU. To establish someone’s eligibility for an EHIC, we need first to establish that the person is living in the UK on a lawful basis and properly settled. Were persons authorised under the Bill unable to process data other than that strictly related to health, they would be unable to make the checks to ensure that those receiving healthcare abroad were entitled to it. Allowing authorised persons to process non-health-related personal data also ensures that we can prevent misuse arrangements and limit fraudulent activity.

The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, and others, expressed concern at Second Reading that provisions in the Bill must not open the door to the mishandling of patient data. I believe that this is what Amendment 24, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, is intended to address. I absolutely agree with the sentiment. I should like to set out why we think that it would prevent the successful operation of future reciprocal healthcare arrangements. They are made possible by the close co-operation of different parties and bodies, such as the Department of Health and Social Care, commissioners of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, Ministers of the devolved Administrations, healthcare providers and their opposite numbers in other EU and EEA countries. The Bill is about the provision of healthcare. It must include all possible healthcare providers who may provide NHS care in the UK in the list of those with authority to process data for the purposes of implementing arrangements under the Bill—just under this Bill.

It is also worth reflecting on the place of healthcare providers in the current EU arrangements to illustrate the vital role that they play in both the commission and delivery of healthcare abroad. Currently, under the planned treatment route, known as the S2 route, a UK resident may decide to seek planned treatment abroad. As part of the procedure, the UK resident must visit a healthcare provider in the UK to have such treatment authorised. The clinician will provide written evidence that the person has had a full clinical assessment, which must clearly state why the treatment is needed in the person’s circumstances and what the clinician considers to be a medically justifiable period within which they should be treated—again, based on their circumstances.

Under existing arrangements, this function can be served only by a medically trained healthcare provider. This paperwork is then passed to NHS England or the comparable authority in the devolved Administration—that answers a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay—for processing. Many of these persons are provided for by Clause 4(6)(b), which refers to NHS bodies. However, some NHS services in England are provided by non-NHS bodies, as was rightly pointed out by my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy. For example, some primary care providers, such as GPs, may not be captured by this list of NHS bodies. However, they could be involved in pre-authorisation for planned treatment and so would need to process data in that regard. Such providers not also being termed “authorised persons” may limit what reciprocal healthcare arrangements we could implement under the Bill; it could even prevent us fully implementing an agreement. Under existing arrangements governed by EU regulations, some private providers in the UK already process patient data, which is perfectly legal and proper. Of course, data protection safeguards apply to private providers too.

To further allay any other fears, I remind your Lordships that this clause contains protections to guard against any misuse of data. The persons who can process data for the purposes of the Bill are limited to “authorised persons”—quite rightly, as the noble Lord, Lord Patel, said. The list of such persons can be amended only by way of statutory instrument; the term cannot just be given automatically to anyone. The Government included a delegated power in Clause 4(6)(e) to amend this list because future arm’s-length bodies may need to process personal data to enable reciprocal healthcare arrangements to operate effectively. Amendment 25 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, would limit that ability. I appreciate that that is out of concern for the safety and security of patient data—a sentiment I share totally—but the amendment would undermine the successful operation of future reciprocal healthcare arrangements.

As the noble Lord knows, the existing reciprocal healthcare arrangements are part of a complex web of systems. They rely on the well-spirited co-operation of a number of parties and bodies, which share accurate and relevant data in a prompt fashion. That extends from patients themselves all the way up to healthcare providers and public sector administrators. In time, public bodies change: they are reformed and refashioned, and functions are transferred between them in consequence. Clause 4(6)(e) gives the Secretary of State powers to respond to such changes.

Again, I assure the Committee that the Government are committed to the safe, lawful and responsible processing of people’s data, both now and in future. In doing so, I address Amendment 23 in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, which honourably seeks to include further principles for the safe processing of data in the Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, and my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy noted, the Caldicott principles and the Government’s Data Ethics Framework are admirable standards to apply to the handling of patient data. Both of these non-legislative frameworks are in line with the Data Protection Act and the GDPR, which are enshrined in the Bill.

As has been said, data processing is an important element of operating effective complex reciprocal healthcare arrangements, like our current arrangements with the EU. Before I move on, I will answer a couple of the questions asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, about the Commons data briefing. I understand that officials met Julie Cooper MP, although I am not clear about the written briefing. However, I will pass the issue on to the Minister and bring it to his attention.

I have already covered data protection in the devolved Administrations, which would have to apply under both the GDPR and the DPA 2018. Of course, I would be happy to meet noble Lords should they wish to discuss those issues any further. My noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy is right to say that we cannot enter into reciprocal agreements if the other country does not meet our data protection standards.

In the light of the assurances I have given and the safeguards in place to protect people’s information, I hope the noble Lord feels able to withdraw his amendment.

Obesity

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Wednesday 18th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, I say at the outset how much I am looking forward to the maiden speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, with all her expertise. We hope to hear a lot of her expertise in the years to come.

I start by recounting the story of Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson, which he recently broadcast in the media. He explained that he was 51, very overweight and had tried many diets. When he started looking into the problem, he realised that all the advice given by the authorities was completely wrong. His research showed that he needed to cut down radically on sugar and starchy carbohydrates, and find ways of getting fat into his diet. Fat stops one feeling so hungry during the day. He also overcame his craving for sugar. This regime resulted in him losing seven stone, or 39 kilograms.

What Mr Watson rediscovered was what had been well known during the war. In 1939, one-third of the British people were either underfed or fed on the wrong food. Food rationing cured that rapidly. For the first time, people had the right quantity and right kind of food. There was no obesity then because they ate food that satisfied them: food they had to chew, including wholemeal bread with plenty of dripping on it—there is nothing wrong with fat, except saturated fats. Also, of course, there was very little sugar and less starchy food. I should explain that when we eat fat it leaves the stomach and goes into the duodenum, releasing a hormone which specifically delays the emptying of the stomach and makes one feel full. Hence, it limits the amount we eat. After the end of rationing in the 1950s, the food industry wished to increase its sales and profits. Realising that it was not selling a great deal of food and that fat was actually a brake on how much people ate, it decided to demonise fat and encourage carbo- hydrates. A low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet is pretty tasteless because it is fat that gives it the taste. The industry had to add large quantities of sugar so that people would eat it, and so began the obesity epidemic.

Another story I would like to tell is of a Member of your Lordships’ House who was paralysed and in a wheelchair. Being overweight, he decided to take three stone of weight off. He could not exercise and so decided on a really revolutionary way of losing weight. He lost three stone simply by eating less. Politicians and that organisation, NICE, have repeatedly stated that all the calories we eat are expended on exercise. This simply is not true. Only a fraction of the calories we eat are used up on exercise. Anyone who disputes this can go to the gym and exercise on one of the machines for half an hour. If they slave away and look at the dial to see how many calories have been used up, it will be about 300 calories in half an hour. That is what one gets from a small bar of chocolate.

The press and the media have been very helpful in the last year or two in drawing attention to the real cause of obesity, which is putting too many calories into one’s mouth. Many people find it difficult to eat less, so it is probably worthwhile looking at preventable problems that make obesity more likely. A lady of 42 with an eating disorder gathered together about 45 other ladies with a similar condition to see whether they could help one another with their problem. When they went round telling their stories, they had all been sexually abused as children. That is of course an anecdote—anecdote being Greek for “unpublished”, which is arguably what most anecdotes should remain—so let us look at science.

An excellent paper published by Danese and Tan in 2014 demonstrated without doubt that the maltreatment of children is associated with a substantial elevated risk of developing obesity. There is so much domestic violence and sexual abuse of children that a greater drive on reducing these risks might also help to solve the obesity epidemic. There has also been a suggestion that as mothers increasingly work outside the home, that may lead to families increasingly relying upon ready-made junk food, which never satisfies hunger and therefore leads to people eating far too much of it and hence obesity. This may be an important contributing factor.

Some elements of the food industry have made an effort to stem the obesity epidemic. The late Professor Terence Wilkin produced some very good scientific work, which clearly showed that obesity leads to inactivity but that inactivity does not lead to obesity—so do not call children couch potatoes. When one examines the genetics of all this, it is not a question of simple inheritance. It has been shown that the children of obese parents are six to 10 times more likely to be obese but, even then, it is not inevitable that they will become so. They will become obese only if they put too many calories in their mouth. There are some medical conditions which affect appetite but none that directly lead to obesity. The tendency towards obesity looks as though it is established early on in life, long before children go to school. As Professor Wilkin stated, this questions the rhetoric around school meals, computer screens, playing fields and of course physical activity, which is fairly unstructured in early childhood.

It is important to restate that physical activity is important for mental health, the heart and the body’s general well-being and functioning. But I hope the Minister will finally put to rest the repeated statements from the Department of Health and Social Care and elsewhere, saying that obesity can be solved by increasing activity and diet. They link those two but only a fraction of the calories we eat are used up in exercise. In their advice, exercise and diet should not be coupled together. They should be separated, not put in the same sentence.

The obesity epidemic is probably costing £30 billion a year. Saving on that would be a great help to the NHS. This whole subject has been bedevilled by, first, the food industry demonising fat and promoting sugar and carbohydrates—by the way, among five to eight year-olds tooth decay is far and away the leading cause of hospital admissions, which are mainly caused by excessive sugar consumption. Secondly, there is the false statement that all the calories we eat are expended in exercise, when only a small fraction are, as I said before. Thirdly, there is blaming and insulting other people, such as calling children couch potatoes when in fact inactivity does not lead to obesity.

Fourthly, there is the nonsense of skimming milk. Skimmed milk is so tasteless that sugar has to be added to get children to drink it. There is no need to skim milk. Eight thousand children in Canada were given whole milk from birth until the age of eight; their calcium metabolism was good and they were not fat but very healthy. Whole milk can actually reduce the incidence of stroke, as in the work published quite recently by Professor Otto in Texas. Human breast milk contains 3.5% fat, as does cows’ milk. I do not think they have started skimming human breast milk yet but you never know.

A fifth part of the department’s advice was to have only two eggs a week. There is no scientific basis for this at all. You can have an egg every day if you want. The sixth thing was that GPs were told not to call patients obese because it was judgmental. There is a difference between being judgmental and making accurate diagnoses. Seventhly, psychological reasons may have a role in obesity but we do not quite understand how.

What is the answer to all this? It is an all-out campaign involving every man, woman and child, every institution, school, university and government department to try and reduce the obesity epidemic.

I believe that the Department of Health and Social Care is moving in the right direction. The idea is not to tell people what to do but to tell them the truth—not in a patronising way, as in the old days, when at 7.50 every morning, at breakfast time, you turned on the radio and the radio doctor would say, “I’m the radio doctor and I’m going to talk about your bowels”. The answer to that was to switch the thing off, saying, “We’re not having bowels for breakfast”.

There have been some very good programmes such as “The Archers”, “Horizon” and many others, which have been very professional in promoting preventive medicine. In a recent campaign against AIDS—

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

May I remind the noble Lord that he needs to wind up, because this is a timed debate? I am so sorry.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich]

I was just going to say that there was a successful campaign against the AIDS epidemic, run by the present Lord Speaker when he was Secretary of State for Health. Why was it so successful? Because he was honest and straightforward, and did not beat about the bush. He said, “Don’t die of AIDS. AIDS is lethal”. That is how we need to fight the obesity epidemic, which is killing millions and costing billions. The cure is free. Eat less. Put fewer calories into your mouth. We must do this: we owe it to our children.

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, to assist the House, before the next speaker starts may I remind all speakers that when the clock strikes five minutes, time is up?

The NHS

Baroness Manzoor Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Darzi of Denham (Lab)]

My Lords, in opening this debate, I declare my interest. I am a practising surgeon in the NHS at St Mary’s Hospital, Paddington, and the Royal Marsden and am the chair of surgery at Imperial College. I proudly sit as a non-executive director of NHS Improvement. Over the past 10 months, I have led an independent review of the health and care system with the Institute for Public Policy Research.

As a surgeon and a former Health Minister, it is a great honour to speak in this place to mark the 70th anniversary of the National Health Service. The NHS is this country’s most treasured institution. It touches our lives at times of the most basic human need when care and compassion matter most. This is a time for reflection to celebrate the institution and give thanks to NHS staff for their service to our nation, and to look to the future.

The NHS is the expression of the moral principle that no one should be denied healthcare because of their means—the idea that the provision of healthcare should be based on need and not the ability to pay. Most people alive today cannot recall the time before the health service was created. With each passing year, the number of people who can recall the pre-NHS era recedes, but if we are to secure its future we must never forget what preceded it.

A friend recently told me the story of his family. His parent worked in the textile mills in Lancashire that have long since disappeared. In the simple kitchen there were two sugar bowls. One was for the sugar and the other for the doctor. It was where they would save a penny or two whenever they could so that, if any member of the family got sick, they could pay for a visit to a doctor. Fear of falling sick was a normal part of daily life in Britain. Illness was the surest path to poverty and destitution, not just for the individuals but for whole families. The founding of the NHS took that fear away for millions and it is a fear that those of us born since have never known and can only imagine.

The NHS was the greatest achievement of the post-war Labour Government. We owe an eternal debt of gratitude to Nye Bevan for his vision, passion and determination to establish the health service. He memorably described the NHS as taking the place of fear. It remains one of the most extraordinary achievements of any society anywhere in the world. It is on occasions such as the 70th anniversary that we must make and remake the case for comprehensive, universal healthcare, free at the point of need for all.

Never let anyone tell you that we cannot afford the NHS. The moral principle of universal access to healthcare is shared by all people everywhere. Those countries that have made it a reality have done so in different ways, but by far the most efficient, dignified and lowest cost is to create a universal service free at the point of need funded by taxation. Private insurance and social insurance systems are much more costly. Those who argue that we cannot afford the NHS are seriously wrong. It is a fundamental error of logic to say that something is unaffordable so we should make the move to something more expensive.

The NHS is funded by us all. It serves each of us and it reflects the best of us. The health service employs 1.5 million people across the four nations of the United Kingdom—that is 5% of all working people in our country. The NHS is its people, not only the doctors and nurses but clinicians of all kinds and the porters, cooks, cleaners and, yes, the vital managers and administrators too. Spending a day working as a porter in the NHS was one of the most illuminating moments of my career. Every member of Team NHS matters. Every one has a contribution to make and each is valuable. I pay tribute to the NHS employees of today who are my colleagues, and to the NHS staff of previous generations. On this day of thanksgiving, we owe them a lasting debt of gratitude.

I have worked in the NHS for longer than I have been a citizen of this country. In a time of great anxiety, I pay a special tribute to the citizens of other countries who have helped to build our NHS throughout its existence and remain the backbone of it today. From the Windrush generation to the European citizens and nationals of every race and creed, from every corner of the world today, they have made an immeasurable contribution. Let that never be forgotten.

NHS staff work at the frontiers of innovation because healthcare exists at the limits of science. This country is a scientific superpower with an extraordinary record of discovery and invention, yet in recent years we have fallen behind on investments in R&D. R&D is the engine of innovation yet R&D spending as a share of GDP has been falling while our competitors have invested more. We need a new commitment to be at the top quartile of advanced countries for R&D investment. The future prosperity of our country depends on it.

Many of the most important medical discoveries took place in this country, often through partnership between the NHS and the universities. No matter the challenges, we are constantly finding new ways to treat disease and soothe pain and suffering. That means that high-quality care is constantly a moving target: to stand still is to fall back. What energises NHS staff is relentlessly improving the quality of care they deliver to their patients. In my review of the NHS with the IPPR we found that, on a wide range of measures, the NHS has maintained and improved the quality of care it provides. Fewer people are harmed and more people are cured than ever before. There is a huge amount to celebrate and to be proud of, yet we should frankly acknowledge the difficulties the health service has faced. The past decade has been the most austere since the health service was founded. Waiting times have risen considerably and the system has been subject to needless destructive reforms. The NHS is not failing, but it is fragile.

A properly funded NHS is the foundation on which a fair, cohesive and inclusive society is built, so the new funding settlement announced by the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Health is very welcome. My friend the noble Lord, Lord Prior, and I, together with the IPPR, recommended a 3.5% annual funding increase: the Government came close, with 3.4%. However, the settlement did not include public health, capital investment or education and training. Each of these is vital and the Government must now deliver on them too.

Securing the NHS is an eternal task. It is no more perfect than life itself. That is why new investment must be joined with reform. Together with the noble Lord, Lord Prior, and the IPPR, I set out a 10-point plan for a 21st-century NHS. At its heart is a new vision, what we call “neighbourhood NHS”, where services are organised around groups of patients with broadly similar needs, rather than groups of professionals with broadly similar skills. We argue that there should be a new option for single integrated care trusts, able to take responsibility for all the health and care needs of a population.

Warm words on mental health must be followed by bold actions. Parity of esteem should mean parity of service. Bringing care closer to people is a crucial principle for a modern NHS, yet for too long the NHS has said it would invest more in care closer to people yet continues to do the inverse of its stated strategy. Each year we say that resources will shift and each year they flow upwards towards hospitals rather than outwards towards communities. That is why we must lock in more spending on primary, community and mental health services each year in the decade ahead.

As we celebrate the past on this anniversary day, we must also look to the future. It is our duty to seize all the technological opportunities that this new era offers. There must be a tilt towards tech to create a digital-first health and care system. That will demand investment in digital infrastructure, improved data sharing and embracing full automation. Many people fear that automation will destroy jobs, but it is much more likely to reshape them by taking away mundane tasks that fill most of our time working in the NHS. This will release more time to care and give more space for clinical reasoning, for research and for innovation.

I have spent decades developing robotic surgery. The robots have yet to replace me, but they have helped me deliver higher-quality care to my patients. For all these improvements to happen, we need a radical simplification of the system. It has become impossibly complicated and is in desperate need of change. I therefore welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to bring forward legislative change. Tinkering at the edges will not be enough: we need fundamental reform. Above all else, we need to confront the great social challenge of today, which is social care, as we heard earlier.

When the NHS was founded, life expectancy for men was 66 and for women it was just 71. Today, it is 79 and 83 respectively. Today, one-quarter of NHS beds are occupied by patients who are medically fit to go home, if there were good enough support for them. More than £3 billion a year of NHS money is wasted by delayed transfers or transitions of care. If Bevan were designing the health service today, it is unimaginable that he would have excluded social care. We must now extend that simple, noble, brilliant principle of care based on need rather than the ability to pay from the NHS and apply it to social care.

Social care reform has become the third rail of British politics: any politician touching it swiftly expires. Between now and 2030 the number of people over the age of 65 will increase by about one-third and the number of those over 85 will nearly double. At the same time, the working-age population will increase by just about 3%. If we do not act now, a heavy burden will fall on families to take care of their relatives. Since 2010, social care has been slashed. Despite rising demand, state social care has plummeted by 27%. That does not mean that less care has been provided. There has been a dramatic rise in informal care. Critics will argue that the older generation should contribute more of their wealth to pay for social care, particularly the wealth locked up in housing, but tying social care reform to the thorny issue of wealth inequality and taxation is wrong. If we make that hurdle for social care reform, there will be no progress at all. Surely, the level of personal wealth is a better basis for wealth taxation than the need for social care.

Better social care means that families spend less time on functional tasks and more time on relationships. If we want a less lonely and more dignified future for our ageing society, now is the time to act. There could be no better birthday present for the health service. It has been a privilege for me to open this debate, but it has been the greatest honour of my life serving the National Health Service for nearly 30 years. In 30 years from today I hope to see the NHS’s centenary. It is a great comfort to know, for me just as for all of us, that the NHS will be there to provide care and compassion when it matters most.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, to assist the House, I say that Back-Bench speeches are limited to four minutes so, when the clock strikes four, time is up.

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[Lord Mawson (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, for introducing this important debate. My colleagues and I have been at the cutting edge of the integration agenda for 35 years now. We are today generating a national and international movement and infecting the NHS culture. This year we have welcomed leaders from 23 countries across the world to see our work. Today I am taking our experience to 10 cities and towns in the north of England, through the Well North programme, which I have been asked to lead by the CEO of Public Health England. I declare my interests.

If we are to have an NHS in 70 years’ time, we suggest the following steps, based on hard-won practical experience. First, we must return to the fundamental question raised by the Peckham experiment in 1948, “What is health?”. The NHS closed this project in 1952, saying that its services would now be delivered by the NHS. It was wrong. Some 50% of our patients today do not have a biomedical problem: they have a housing, education or employment problem, or they are lonely. I am finding similar numbers in communities in the north of England. The Bromley by Bow Centre is Peckham mark II, but this time with a business plan.

Secondly, we should stop building health centres. Today we offer a vast array of services to our local community and our 40,000 patients. They stretch from conventional healthcare for local residents to opportunities to set up your own business, from support with tackling credit card debts to help with learning to read and write and help up the career ladder. We should stop building health centres, but that is not to denigrate clinical health. On the contrary, we need to position clinical health within a broad range of services to drive well-being in communities.

The list in this debate question is far too limited. We need to create a locally blended offer, where doctors sit alongside others, including patients and local residents, to provide what people need. It is healthier for doctors. Our health centres are more like a John Lewis store, where the customer is welcomed in and a host of choices are laid before them. The people who run successful department stores know that a diverse product range makes complete sense for the customer and financial sense for the business. You can capture the customer and have an opportunity to offer myriad products and services. It is the same principle in integrated holistic centres, where health is about life and living, not just disease and illness. It is about sweating our community assets. This approach would create benefits and savings across a range of Whitehall departments, not just the Department of Health.

We are working with our partners to build two new town centres in Rotherham and Stocksbridge, just outside Sheffield. The retail sector is challenged at the moment by the internet, but there is a real opportunity to rethink what a town centre is and to put the heart back into it. We will require flexibility and imagination from the NHS and other government departments.

Thirdly, over the years we have developed many innovations that have quietly gone national. The latest is the social prescribing movement which we founded in Bromley. It is now in 20% of GP practices nationally and 80% in Tower Hamlets; there is a network of 2,000 social prescribers across the country. Social prescribing should be the norm in every practice, because it focuses on what matters to patients rather than what is the matter with them. It also ensures maximum engagement with patients in managing their own health. Let us unleash healthy communities.

Finally, there is too much focus on beds and hospitals rather than on early intervention. People believe that the NHS will solve their health problems; often it will not. We are breeding a massive dependency culture through an institution that I would suggest is far from well. Let us be honest. It is not lack of resources that is the problem, but what we have chosen to focus on. I fear more of the same. What happened to the five-year plan? It is time to be more radical. Let us drop the sentimentality about the NHS and return to the fundamental question: what is health in the modern world for our children, in a society that is increasingly atomising? I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Darzi. It is time for fundamental reform, based not on sentiment, theories or ideology but on practical innovation and experience on the ground—and it cannot be led simply by the vested interests of the medical profession.

[Baroness Manzoor]

My Lords, we must keep to time, otherwise noble Lords at the end of the debate will not get their full four minutes.

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[Lord Colwyn (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the debate of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi. I must also declare my 40 years in the NHS and that I am a fellow of the British Dental Association.

In 1948, the nation’s dental health was in a worse state than that of defeated and occupied Germany; decay and gum disease were rife and more than three-quarters of the adult population had complete dentures. The creation of the NHS meant that, for the very first time, dental care was free at the point of use and the demand was overwhelming. By late 1948, more than 80% of practising dentists had signed up to work in the NHS and, in the first nine months of its existence, NHS dentists provided over 33 million artificial teeth, performed 4.5 million extractions and put in 4.2 million fillings. By 1951, the NHS started running out of money and so charges for dentures were introduced—the first charges of any kind for NHS treatment. This controversial move caused much debate and led to the resignation of Aneurin Bevan. Charges for other types of dental treatment soon followed and, to this day, dentistry remains the only part of the NHS that is not free at the point of use.

NHS dentistry today looks very different from the way it did 70 years ago. Modern technology means that dentistry today is relatively pain free compared with the dentistry of the past. Our nation’s oral health continues to improve and most of us keep at least some of our own teeth past the age of 85. Satisfaction with NHS dentistry is at a record high. Despite an estimated 10 million adults in the UK reporting dental anxiety and 6 million experiencing dental phobia, 85% of patients rate their NHS dental experience as positive.

We cannot, however, afford to be complacent. Although oral health on average is steadily improving for the general population, there are still unacceptable variations in outcomes, depending on where you live. Almost half of five-year-old children living in places such as Pendle, Rochdale or Burnley have tooth decay, but a mere 5% are affected in Waverley or Guildford. Tooth decay remains the leading reason for hospital admissions among young children, despite being almost entirely preventable—a scandal in 21st-century Britain. Increasingly, there are also problems with access to NHS dentistry in many areas. A recent BBC investigation revealed that only 52% of dental practices were able to accept new NHS patients. Almost half of all adults in England—a total of 21 million people—have not seen an NHS dentist for over two years.

The reasons for that can be traced back to two main problems: the lack of funding and a failed dental contract. NHS dentistry has been chronically underfunded in recent years. Nominal spending on dental services per capita fell from £41 in 2013 to £36 in 2017. This drop is even greater if we take into consideration inflation and the rising cost of dental materials. At the same time, patient charges in England have increased at an unprecedented pace—a 5% rise each year for the past three years. Data shows clearly that this fee makes many people delay going to the dentist until the problem has escalated, ultimately requiring more expensive treatment.

The second reason for problems with dental access and rising inequalities in England is the way that dentistry is commissioned. The failed NHS dental contract effectively sets quotas on the number of patients a dentist is able to see on the NHS.

[Baroness Manzoor]

I am so sorry. We are running late and have to go to the next speaker.

[Lord Colwyn]

I have only one more sentence. It has led to such low morale in the workforce that 58% of dentists are looking to leave the NHS in the next five years.