Co-operatives, Mutuals and Friendly Societies Bill (First sitting)

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 30th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve on this Committee with you as Chair, Mr Mundell. I begin by thanking and warmly congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Preston on securing cross-party support for this important Bill.

Britain has a long tradition of fostering the principles of co-operation and mutual support. The histories of the Co-operative party and the Labour party in this country are closely entwined. That relationship was institutionalised in 1927, when the Co-operative party and the Labour party entered an electoral agreement to stand joint candidates in elections. Nearly a hundred years later, that agreement is going strong—as one of many Labour and Co-operative MPs, I can attest to that.

To this day, both parties continue to make the case for co-operatives and friendly and mutual societies. I have always been proud to work with the Co-operative party to promote the co-operative businesses that are leading the way in improving equality and productivity at work. As a shadow Treasury Minister, I am keenly aware of the role that co-operatives and mutuals play in trade sectors as diverse as agriculture, renewable energy, retrofitting, creative industries, manufacturing, distribution, wholesale, retail and financial services.

Those British businesses play such an important role in supporting working people across the country in gaining greater control over their lives. In the financial services sector for example, building societies provide people with a low-risk, member-focused banking alternative and research has shown that trust in building societies is consistently high. Building societies are also typically well capitalised, making the sector more resilient to financial shocks and better able to lend and plan for the long term.

At the same time, credit unions serve 1.9 million members and 2.1 million depositors across the UK. Currently, around £1.7 billion has gone out in loans to credit union members, providing a crucial lifeline to the most financially vulnerable in society and preventing people from turning to loan sharks and high-interest loans.

With the right support, the co-operative sector has the potential to provide solutions to many of the crises and challenges we face as a country, such as the cost of living crisis or climate change. But despite the distinctly British character and history of mutually and co-operatively owned companies, and the important role they play in promoting financial responsibility and resilience among their members, the sector’s needs have too often been ignored. The number of mutual credit unions has fallen by more than 20% since 2016. Ordinary families have paid the price, with many forced into the arms of unethical lenders. That will only get worse as the cost of living crisis deepens.

Unlike the United States and many other European countries, the UK is uniquely lacking in mutually or co-operatively owned regional banks, which could play a crucial role in providing the affordable credit that small and medium-sized businesses need to reach net zero. The growth of co-operatives in this country is being held back by a legislative and regulatory framework that is not designed for co-operative businesses. Given their unique structure, co-operatives, mutuals and friendly societies are often excluded from traditional investment methods.

Sadly, as we have heard, the sector is also under threat from demutualisation. There was celebration across the co-operative and labour movements last year when members voted to reject the controversial takeover of the insurer Liverpool Victoria by the private equity firm Bain Capital, yet demutualisation remains a real and present threat to the sector. That is why the provisions contained in the Bill are so important and will help to ensure that mutual capital is maintained for its intended purpose.

We welcome the Government’s support for the Bill, and we would like to use this opportunity to urge the Government to consider wider reform, such as giving co-operatives more freedom to issue perpetual capital to fund investment, to secure the future of this important sector. The Financial Services and Markets Bill, which is currently passing through the House, contains some welcome and long overdue provisions, such as enabling credit unions to offer a wider range of products, but if the Treasury wants to unlock the economic potential of the sector, it could go much further. That is why I hope that, alongside supporting this Bill, the Government will consider supporting the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) to the Financial Services and Markets Bill, which would give the regulators—the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority—an explicit remit to report on how they have considered specific business models, including mutuals and co-operatives, to ensure they are given parity of esteem with standard providers.

It is time to radically reform the rules governing the sector, to give greater flexibility and to allow mutuals and co-operative financial services to grow. The Labour party and the co-operative movement share a commitment to building a society in which power and wealth are shared fairly. That is why the Labour party and the Co-operative party have agreed an important ambition for government: we will double the size of the co-operative and mutual sector in the UK. We recognise that the Bill represents an important step toward achieving that aim, and we will be giving it our full support today.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrew Griffith)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell, and it is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ealing North. I congratulate the hon. Member for Preston on reaching Committee stage with this important Bill and on the role played by him and his team in championing the needs of the mutuals sector. I also congratulate my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, who did so much to pilot the Bill in its early stages and has given it his wholehearted support. It is always a pleasure to work with him, and I am pleased that we can take it forward.

I am pleased with the warm reception that the Bill has received right across the sector and on both sides of the House. A number of my colleagues look forward to their membership of the co-operative movement, and would it not be a wonderful thing if the co-operative movement once again graced both sides of the House? I always pay tribute to my thought leader in this space, my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes, who has consistently advocated the benefits of a place-based approach to policy. We continue to hang on his every word as to how we can make that a reality as we seek to level up the United Kingdom.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester raised some important points. I will write to him with what I consider to be the best legal position on the perfectly fair points he raised in pursuit of facilitating transactions that would protect mutuals, and not seek to undermine them or create a loophole, which I am sure is not the spirit of what he suggests. Nor would the Government want to see that or support that.

[Richard Graham]

It was interesting that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ealing North, raised an ambition to double, effectively, the size of the mutual sector. Although that is an admirable ambition, in an isolated sense, I think that there is work to be done on a review of the sector to see why some credit unions have failed, where the inability to raise capital is holding back the co-op and mutual movement, and what more can be done on some of the points mentioned by colleagues on both sides of the Committee to see where things are holding the sector back. Otherwise, the ambition in itself may not lead anywhere.

[Andrew Griffith]

I thank my hon. Friend for his point. It is a laudable ambition, which I am certainly happy to devote time to. Mutuals with the values of people in the community at their core are genuinely central to the vibrant, competitive and diverse—we are in favour of financial diversity—way in which the UK can serve the whole community. It is right that we look at how we do that, and how we can access capital. There are some technical points—I believe that Opposition Members understand that—in ensuring that we retain the tax advantages of mutuals, and do not inadvertently make them look more and more like corporate entities, which they are not, thereby prejudicing that tax treatment.

[Gareth Thomas]

I take the Minister’s point that there are some technical issues, but there has seemingly not been a great deal of will from HMRC thus far to try to find a way forward on them. Will he set out what instructions he has given to HMRC officials, perhaps to co-operate with the Law Commission, or whether separate work is being done within the Treasury to find a way around those technical issues? One of the things that came out of the LV= story—it was not a particular issue for LV=, but it certainly was for other mutuals—was that access to capital is holding back the development of friendly societies and their ability to offer more wide-ranging products and services.

[Andrew Griffith]

I am sure that my steely-eyed colleagues at HMRC do not need any particular direction, but they will have some challenge from me. I have already started to engage in that space. The hon. Member will appreciate that the corpus of law in this area is substantial, and that we should proceed cautiously. I will come on to the Law Commission, and perhaps that can be—

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[The Chair]

Order. We cannot have a conversation. The hon. Member should either intervene or not.

[Andrew Griffith]

I also associate my remarks with those of my distinguished friend and neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West, about the potential for the sector. He too made the point about its important contribution to a diversity of models, and potentially looking at the cap on the rates that mutuals can attract. Particularly in an environment of rates moving around, we should look at that with an open mind, and I will continue to do so. I am sure that the hon. Member for Preston will continue to be a doughty champion for the sector, and I look forward to engaging with him going forward. I know that the Bill does not go quite as far as he would like. It is great that we have such strong ambition, but I do not think that we should let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We should celebrate this really important concrete step, which will prevent the predation of demutualisation.

More widely, the Government are supporting credit unions through the Financial Services and Markets Bill, as the hon. Member for Ealing North reminded us. It would be good to see a higher number of them. As he knows, they are regulated by the Credit Unions Act 1979, which the Bill amends to allow for a significantly wider range of products and services, including for the first time hire purchase agreements, conditional sales agreements and insurance distribution services—the ability to act as a distributor of insurance, helping both the reach of those products and their own financial growth. That will be of genuine benefit to members.

The Government are also helping building societies, another part of the broader mutual movement, to expand their opportunities for growth by ensuring that they operate within a modernised legislative framework. We have concluded our consultation on the Building Societies Act 1986 and look forward to how we will respond to it to help that important part of the sector.

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[Gareth Thomas]

Will there be an opportunity for the House in some way to consider whether the scope of the review is as wide-ranging as those of us who are advocates of the sector across parties think is necessary?

[Andrew Griffith]

I am always happy to engage with the hon. Member. The simple answer is that I do not know whether it is for the House to engage, but I am happy—I hope my actions to date speak as loudly as my words—to engage on what that scope should be. I certainly assure him that, before the launch of a review, the sector will be consulted. If hon. Members have particular points to make, I am keen to hear them.

The future of mutuality looks bright and prosperous. That ambition is supported by the Government. I commend the hon. Member for Preston for his work on the Bill. The Government will support it.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I am grateful for the co-operation that the Government have shown on the Bill through successive Ministers over the past four or five months. I am encouraged to hear about the co-operation of the Law Commission and the moves to be made to involve it in a review of the sector. I look forward to seeing what the review brings forward. In the spirit of what my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West said, I hope that the House will get the chance to deliberate the outcome of the review and to produce future legislation that will go towards solving many of the problems that I identified in my original draft of the Bill.

This is not the Bill that I introduced, but a good chunk of it is there, and I am grateful for the asset lock that is being introduced. I hope that we can also work to deliver, in future, further aspects of my original Bill in order to reach what I think is a conducive and favourable environment for co-operatives, mutuals and friendly societies in this country. If we look at the examples of the sector in other countries, in particular in mainland Europe, we can see that we are well behind in the degree of contribution to the GDP of those countries, compared with the degree of the contribution to GDP of the sector in this country.

A lot remains to be done, but I thank the Minister for bringing forward that work to ensure that we can get there at some stage in the future. Thank you, Mr Mundell, and I thank the Minister, the Treasury team and everyone else present today to support my Bill.

Amendment 1 agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title

Amendments made: 2, in title, line 1, leave out from “Make provision” to “to permit” in line 3.

This Amendment and Amendment 3 would amend the long title of the Bill to reflect that the purpose of the Bill is to permit the capital surplus of mutual entities to be non-distributable.

Amendment 3, in title, line 4, leave out—

“; to amend the Friendly Societies Act 1992”.—(Sir Mark Hendrick.)

See the explanatory statement for Amendment 2.

Bill, as amended, to be reported.

Co-operatives, Mutuals and Friendly Societies Bill

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 24th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrew Griffith)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray). Today of all days, our thoughts are with the Ukrainian people. To that end, I also extend my thanks to the financial sector, which, through the provision of basic bank accounts, has ensured that more than 70,000 people and families who have come and made their home here are able to receive income, send money and pay for goods.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) as his Bill reaches this important milestone. Its aims are as laudable as his long-standing advocacy for the sector. I also thank my team of officials, on his and the House’s behalf, for their work on taking this important reform forward—Joshua Grey, Logan Cuthbert, Lucy Alawi-Yates, Emma Kavanagh, Alanna Barber and Harriet Hill.

We are all aware—this has frequently arisen in discussions about this Bill—of the UK’s special place in the history of the mutual movement. We heard that again this morning from many hon. Members of this House, including my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Rob Butler). My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke- on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) raised the Burslem and District Industrial Co-operative Society. My hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Greg Smith) reminded us of the importance of the co-operative movement in the free market movement, and mentioned the Buckinghamshire Community Energy co-operative and the Brill village community herd. We cast new eyes on my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury (Mark Eastwood) as we look at him as the man from the Co-op, come to collect, not spend his penny.

We have heard of how communities came together over a century ago, pooling their resources to meet their shared needs and face their common challenges. The hon. Member for Preston, of course, appreciates the unique history and impact of mutuals, not least because of the constituency he represents. The north of England is widely recognised as one of the birthplaces of the modern co-operative movement. It was in 1844 that a group of 28 artisans working side by side in the Rochdale cotton mills first came together. Their objective was to consolidate their scant resources so that they could assure access to better quality food and goods that their community had been excluded from.

The Rochdale co-operative movement was based on principles of openness and democratic control—one member, one vote. In that way, the 28 Rochdale pioneers shared in the profits that their custom generated, and triumphed over the poverty that had been blighting skilled workers at the time.

This is part of our shared UK history, and there are even earlier examples of self-help co-operative organisations lifting communities above their common challenges. The Fenwick Weavers’ Society was the result of a collective decision by a group of weavers in Fenwick, Ayrshire, to form a society. The group’s 1761 foundation charter sits in the National Library of Scotland. Its formation was a response to a period of rapid flux for the textile industry in the mid-18th century, and its members came together to set a fair price for their work and guarantee a sustainable future for their trade.

Today the nation, communities and people face different challenges, having come through a global pandemic while a war in Europe rages on and inflation, although coming down, continues to make everyone poorer. That is why our Prime Minister has set this Government five clear challenges, the first of which is to halve inflation in order to give respite to businesses, ease the cost of living for households and give people financial security. The second is to grow the economy, and in doing so to create better-paid jobs and spread opportunities across the length and breadth of the country. That is doubtless at the heart of the co-operative movement. Fourth, fifth and sixth are to cut our national debt, to cut NHS waiting lists, and to pass new laws to stop small boats so that ordinary workers in this country get the fair deal that they deserve.

As Members will know, the first seed of the original mutual movement lives on in our modern mutuals sector, which consists of diverse, commonly owned and democratically controlled enterprises that exist to provide vital services to their members—a genuinely diverse part of our wonderful United Kingdom financial services sector. According to one recent analysis, the UK mutual insurance sector served 32.3 million policyholders and collectively employed 26,400 people in 2021. Another form of mutual organisation that continues to thrive and deliver value to society is the co- operative, which, as we have heard today, operates across all industries and in many constituencies including my own, in sectors from farming to retail to housing. Owned and controlled by members close to them—whether they are workers, shoppers, suppliers or co-residents—co-operatives give people a stake in how they are run. Analysis by the trade body Co-operatives UK found that this sector was worth nearly £40 million to the UK economy in 2021.

Because of their ownership model, mutuals are uniquely invested in doing right by their members rather than in gaining short-term profit at all costs. That makes them key partners in many of the Government’s policy priorities, such as the financial inclusion agenda that is so important to me. It is no coincidence that financial mutuals lead the way in many of the low-cost product offerings, such as affordable healthcare solutions or investment products at price points that—if not quite a penny a week—encourage the financial participation of a broader swathe of society.

Modern mutual banks, invested in the success of their local economies, are able to leverage locally based decision making to ensure that their services reflect the needs of the communities they serve. They are a real asset in our mission to level up and spread economic activity across the regions. I would like to see more mutual organisations of every type, and I am very open to proposals such as those in the Bill, which the Government are proud to support. I am very open to ways in which we can tailor our regulatory structure to promote the growth and, indeed, the new formation of mutuals across our financial sector. This is a real form of diversity.

Mutuals are a big deal in the here and now. In many cases they rest on the legacy left behind by others—the successive generations of memberships who paid into the pot, as the hon. Member for Preston reminded us. They did so on the presumption that that surplus would be held in common, without personal entitlement, to support their peers in times of need, for the betterment of society and for future generations. That is why I have always been receptive to the view expressed by Members on both sides of the House that these funds should remain in mutual hands for the purposes originally intended.

I support actions to secure our mutuals heritage, which is why the Government are pleased to support the hon. Member’s Bill. The Bill applies to co-operatives, friendly societies and bodies corporate that carry on the business of mutual insurance, and it aims to equip those mutual entities with a stronger option in law, an asset lock, to restrict the use of surplus funds for their chosen purposes. By permitting a stronger lock in law for those entities that wish to adopt it—and I am sure many will—the Government aim to provide the sector with an additional deterrence against demutualisation.

[Rob Butler]

Will my hon. Friend say a little more about the significance and importance of the opt-in, as opposed to compulsion?

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend, as well as being a doughty champion for the co-operative movement in general, is right to emphasise the voluntary element. It is right that those membership organisations that wish to use the lock have the architecture within the Bill to do so, but it is not the business of Government to interfere with the strategy, desire or, in some cases, need of those in the mutual sector to consolidate or raise capital through other means by taking all those options off the table with a mandatory asset lock.

That approach is typical of this Government. My hon. Friend will understand, as an experienced man of business, that our principle is to allow people to regulate and conduct their affairs in the way they feel best serves their needs. As he knows, we have heard very clearly that the mutual sector likes this architecture and will benefit from it. In that context, it is right for the Government to support the Bill.

[Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con)]

As my hon. Friend says, it is important that the Government are in favour of the mutual movement, yet last year Liverpool Victoria was at risk of being taken over by private equity. Does he think we have the right balance between the free market being at liberty to appoint capital as it thinks best and the Government’s objective of supporting the mutual movement and allowing it to grow?

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend raises a point we have discussed a number of times during the Bill’s progress. It is a poster case for the need to provide some sort of protection. Without getting into the details of that case, Liverpool Victoria clearly continues as a mutual to this day, after deciding not to accept those offers. It is probably right that people were able to make those offers, but it is equally right that members were able to determine the outcome for themselves.

As I hope my hon. Friend recognises, the tapestry of the Government’s financial regulation role and the needs of a vibrant and competitive market occupies all my waking hours. It is a difficult task to calibrate, but we are greatly assisted by the presence on these Benches of so many colleagues with so much experience to offer. It is always a joy to receive representations on behalf of the myriad parts of the sector, all of which we are trying to help grow and deliver jobs across the economy. As I never fail to remind the House, two thirds of jobs in the financial services sector are outside London and the south-east. The sector touches communities across the country, as we have heard again today.

By permitting a stronger lock in law for those entities that wish to adopt it, the Government are aiming to provide the sector with an additional deterrent against demutualisation. It will empower mutuals to continue the legacy left by previous generations of members to deliver in service of their members and wider society. However, the Government are not seeking just to play defence on the mutual model; we want to advance the interests of the sector and to grow diversity so that we have a rich financial services sector that has all sorts of forms of ownership within it.

As the House will be aware, we are taking action to support credit unions, which are another type of member-owned, democratically controlled financial institution. This Bill does not apply to credit unions, but through the Financial Services and Markets Bill we are seeking to promote that sector. As the latest Prudential Regulation Authority data shows, there are 249 credit unions in Great Britain, representing more than 1.4 million adult and child members. There are exactly 650 constituencies; would it not be wonderful if every one of them had a thriving credit union? That is a vision for us to hold in mind.

As the Financial Services and Markets Bill makes its way through the other House, we are making a number of important amendments to the Credit Unions Act 1979 to allow credit unions to offer a wider range of products and services. Where they decide it is in their interests to do so, they will be able to offer hire purchase agreements and conditional sale agreements, and to distribute insurance products to their members. Those are all ways in which they can increase their utility to their members, and improve their own scale and financials, which is one of the challenges that they have had. We will also allow them the option to lend to and borrow from other credit unions on a short-term basis, which will sometimes allow them to manage their liquidity better. Again, that will improve the strength and resilience of the sector. That delivers on interests that were raised with the Government by the sector.

The Financial Services and Markets Bill also gives the Government a new power to allow credit unions to offer further products and services in the future through secondary legislation. The message is that the door is ajar. If we hear representations from the sector about more ways in which this Government can be on its side, it should keep pushing, because we will have the ability through secondary legislation to do that.

Additionally, the Government are taking forward a programme of work to ensure that building societies, mutual savings providers and mortgage lenders have a modern and fit-for-purpose legislative framework that promotes opportunities for growth. We have concluded our consultation on the Building Societies Act 1986. As was announced in the Edinburgh reforms package, the Government will in due course bring forward legislation to amend that Act. That will give building societies further flexibility in raising wholesale funds and help to modernise corporate governance requirements, enabling building societies to compete on a more level playing field with retail banks and, again, to promote competition and diversity of provision within the financial services sector.

We are not stopping there. The Government are committed to the health and prosperity of the mutuals sector, and we recognise the valuable contribution mutuals make. It is a matter of record that I believe we need to go further to cement a modern and supportive business environment in which mutuals can thrive. That is why we continue to have active discussions with the Law Commission on options to proceed with reviews of both the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014 and the Friendly Societies Act 1992, with a view to launching those reviews in the next financial year. Work is ongoing to define the terms and scope of the reviews, which includes close engagement with the sector, and I expect to be in a position to provide an update with more detail very soon, particularly as I know that many Members here today have a keen interest in that work. Clearly, that is something we wish to see move forward and I am sure it will. As such, I can confirm that a core aim of the reviews will be to focus on dysfunctions in the law that result in those organisations being unnecessarily impeded or facing additional time, expenditure or opportunity cost.

In conclusion, the prospects for mutuals are bright. I am delighted that we have been able to make progress on this important Bill today. I commend the cross-party spirit in which the hon. Member for Preston and the Opposition have worked closely with the Government and officials. I am very happy to commend support for this Bill.