Hallett Review

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I understand my hon. Friend’s perspective. There are probably many reasons why people put their names forward. Something that comes across clearly in the report is that a number of the individuals concerned were not known to the PSNI at all. I will reflect on what he has said, but I continue to believe that it would not be helpful to name the individuals who were processed through the scheme. In all other respects, however, we need to be as transparent as we can about the steps we will take to remedy the serious errors identified by Heather Hallett, and we need to do all we can to learn from them.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

This whole sad Downey saga is riddled with ambiguity, limited information and half-truths, with no thought or respect for the victims. We built a hard-won peace process on truth and honesty, and a very welcome political process flowed from it. All parallel issues and discussions need to be open and transparent. This sad saga brings us back to one salient point that must be made again and again: we have neglected to deal adequately with the past and with the many issues that arise from our difficult history between 1970 and 1998. We are all guilty in this regard. The legacy of the past—the mistakes, the crimes, the murders and the maimings—hangs over us like a massive alpine glacier, and it leaves behind thousands of victims.

Does the Secretary of State accept that, unless the problems of the past are faced up to honestly and transparently and in an accountable and balanced way, they will continue to break off bit by bit and threaten us on a regular basis, month by month, disrupting lives and reopening old wounds? Will she and the Government commit to helping those of us who are working to complete the Haass process, in which dealing with the past is a major issue? Will they commit to ensuring honestly and transparently, and in a balanced way, that we deal with the past and, having dealt with it honourably, we begin to face the future with confidence? Will they ensure that the past is properly and completely finished with and put behind us?

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman puts the case for an attempt to resolve the issues of the past with great clarity. I fully agree that the legacy of Northern Ireland’s past is a recurrent issue that has the capacity to poison the political debate and to create a block to genuine reconciliation. I therefore strongly agree that, for the sake of peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland, it is essential that we find an agreed way forward and come to terms with the legacy of the past. I can give him the same assurance that he received from the Prime Minister in his meeting with him yesterday—namely, that this Government are fully committed to doing that and that we will play our part in any agreement between the Northern Ireland parties. We will continue to do everything we can to facilitate an agreement between those parties on these important matters.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

Of course that was a disgraceful attack, as was the shooting attack on a G4S vehicle involved in tagging offenders. PSNI officers subject themselves to risk every day. The terrorist threat continues to be lethal and is predominantly focused on police and prison officers. That is one of the reasons why this Government acted to provide an additional £231 million of funding to help the PSNI fight terrorists and maintain the safety of its officers.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

10. Can the Secretary of State confirm that an independent arbitration body is absolutely necessary to arbitrate the contentious parades, and will she confirm that the Parades Commission is the law and that those who want to support law and order must support the Parades Commission rulings, even if they disagree with the detail of a decision?

[Mrs Villiers]

Yes I can. The Parades Commission is the lawfully constituted authority. Its determinations have the force of law. They must be obeyed and I welcome the huge efforts made over the weekend to ensure the determination in north Belfast was obeyed. I am afraid that I think we always will need some form of body to adjudicate parades where there is no local agreement, but I hope in all cases as much effort as possible is made to try to reach local agreement so there is not a further need for a determination.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

As I have said already, I believe that a way forward on the past has to put victims at its heart. I also agree with the hon. Lady that a new process needs to be transparent, balanced and accountable. As the OTRs issue has demonstrated, it is vital that we put any side deals behind us and that the way we approach the legacy of Northern Ireland’s past is balanced, transparent and accountable. We have said that we will work with the kind of institutions set out in Haass 7 if they are formally agreed by the parties.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

11. The Secretary of State will be aware that many people in Northern Ireland are living in dread of the potential for another summer of disruption and distress. So that people are not held to ransom through another summer of protests, intimidation and violence, does the Secretary of State agree that there is now a compelling need for both the British and Irish Governments to become fully engaged in bringing the Haass discussions, and the discussions that have flowed from them, to a productive conclusion?

[Mrs Villiers]

Both the UK and Irish Governments will continue to support the efforts of party leaders to reach a conclusion on the Haass issues. Like the hon. Gentleman, I urge everyone, as we approach the height of the parading season, to comply with the rule of law to ensure that all protests and all parades are both peaceful and lawful, and that the Parades Commission’s determinations are complied with.

High Court Judgment (John Downey)

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Thursday 27th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I, like others, welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. I thank those responsible for making it happen. I wish to extend my sympathy again, and that of my party, to the relatives and friends of those killed in the Hyde park bombs, and beyond that to all victims and survivors generally. I do not wish to retread all the ground well covered by others, in particular by my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan).

My main concern is that we must deal with the real issues raised by the Downey case in a mature and responsible way that does not do any further damage to the potential for political progress in Northern Ireland that is necessary at this time. It is now very clear that serious errors were made in the management of Operation Rapid, and that those errors compromised victims’ rights to justice. The way this process was administered came at the expense of establishing an honest and robust system that could have dealt adequately with any anomalies that were out there in relation to on-the-runs or others. That could have been done in an accountable and transparent manner.

It is in the interests of the public and the victims to provide honesty and clarity on all aspects of the establishment of this so-called administrative scheme. People I have talked to want to know what went on. They want to know how those involved were selected to qualify for a letter and how some others in similar circumstances did not qualify. Indeed, they want to know—Members have referred to this already—why some people needed a royal pardon. Were they wanted for questioning, but did not quite qualify for the letters? There are many unanswered questions, and people out there want answers, because confidence in politics has been damaged and we need to restore it.

We in the SDLP have repeatedly made clear our concerns about the letters and the whole shady process that followed the collapse of the so-called on-the-run Bill in 2006. Many aspects of the process that led to the collapse of the Downey trial remain extremely unclear. Answers must be given about how it all happened, why it happened and who made it happen. I cannot accept—I do not think any of us can—any disingenuous suggestion or bogus claim that somehow, by a system of osmosis, we were all aware of everything that happened after the collapse of that Bill or that we should have been, even though we are told that it had to be secret. They cannot have it both ways. Claims have been cast around and about in some quarters that information was available to those who wanted or needed it. I want to refute that and state clearly and unambiguously that it is totally inaccurate. None of us who was near, around or about politics at the time was aware of the size and shape of the problem. We certainly knew there was an issue with on-the-runs—a concern, a problem, an anomaly—but nobody knew what was going on in the undergrowth.

This whole process has defied the public’s most basic political expectations of openness, transparency and good governance. It comes as little surprise to me, and should come as little surprise to anybody else, that so much stress has been caused since this shady process began to unravel. I hope that the review led by Justice Hallett will begin to shed some light on how the process was so appallingly badly handled. As a member of the Northern Ireland Committee, I will be doing all I can to pursue the truth—the whole truth—through the inquiries that have been set up. We have a responsibility to investigate, but, I believe—and I would urge others to do so—in a responsible manner. As far as I am concerned, there is no room for political manoeuvring or grandstanding. We need to use the opportunities afforded to us to address concerns properly and answer the questions of victims, survivors and their families, who are vulnerable and at the receiving end of this whole affair.

In Northern Ireland, victims issues are deeply sensitive. There must always be empathy, respect and sensitivity given to victims, most of whom have suffered in silence for many years. Neither empathy, respect nor sensitivity has been evident in the Downey case or the manner in which it has been handled. It is my view that victims and survivors are our first priority and should never be made to feel that they are being treated as an irritation or a problem that can be wished away in the interest of political expediency. We in the SDLP will try to treat victims with respect at all times. Any process that we support to deal with the past will have victims at the centre and be keenly sensitive to their concerns. For many victims, the Downey case has confirmed their worst fears and further undermined their lack of confidence in the whole process of truth, justice and reconciliation.

Let me turn for a couple of moments to the Haass process and the future, which is as important as the past. Like others, I am concerned to ensure that we do not allow ourselves to be prisoners of the past, yet at the same time we have to deal with the hangover and the problems of the past. Some have already tried to use the Downey case as an excuse to walk away from the party leaders’ negotiations that followed the Haass discussions. We cannot let this episode become an excuse to do any further damage or walk away from the negotiating table that Richard Haass helped to create. The aftermath of the Haass process is still in effect today and continues as leaders of the main parties in Northern Ireland are meeting. We are dealing with the very real challenges of the past, parading and flags. Those challenges are still with us. They have been there a long time and will remain for as long as we fail to face up to them.

Individual politicians and political parties have little right to keep complaining about issues if they refuse to take responsibility or commit to finding solutions to major problems.

Through the Haass process, we arrived at a number of positive options and concrete solutions to many of the difficult challenges that face us, especially when it comes to dealing with our past. Lord Eames said last week that issues relating to the past, parading and flags were all intertwined, and that if we solved one of them, we would begin to solve the others as well. It is essential for all of us in Northern Ireland to do all that we can to reach honourable compromises on all these issues. We cannot let the Downey case be used as an excuse for not dealing with the past; indeed, it seems to me to demonstrate the very reason why we must actively, honestly and honourably deal with the past and get to grips with it. It provides us with the impetus that will enable us to get our feet firmly back under the negotiating table and make the hard yards on the hardest of problems. It is unfortunate that the Ulster Unionist party has signalled its intention to detach itself from those negotiations.

We need honest engagement and honourable compromise, now and in the future, more than ever before. The problems that we have out there will not go away until we face them in a mature and honest way. The Downey issue is a perfect illustration of the fact that, while covert side deals and shabby quick fixes can be used for short-term purposes, they are very damaging in the long term. What we badly need are honest, open and transparent discussions with honourable conclusions.

During our efforts in the peace process over the last 20 years, we have benefited from an enormous amount of good will throughout the world. We must not squander that by failing to take on the hard issues that will allow us to finish the job and define a better future for Northern Ireland. I recently spent a week in Washington and New York, and was heartened to hear President Obama and Vice-President Biden echo the words spoken by ex-President Clinton during his recent visit to Derry. They said “Finish the job, finish the job”, and I appeal to all to help us to do that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I have had regular discussions with Eamon Gilmore on this matter, including a number of meetings in Northern Ireland and in Dublin. We are keen to work together to encourage the finding of a way forward, and to encourage the political parties in Northern Ireland to reconcile their differences and get an agreement over the line.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

11. I welcome the Secretary of State’s positive comments on the Haass process. Does she agree that much has been achieved and that we should now implement as much of that as possible by creating the necessary legislation and resolving the remaining differences?

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that considerable progress has been achieved. These issues are incredibly divisive, and the fact that all five political parties have found a degree of common ground is very welcome. I also agree that we should keep up the momentum and seize this opportunity to get an agreement over the line and to reconcile the differences that still exist among the five parties.

Haass Talks

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

The attacks before Christmas by dissident republicans were disgraceful. It was particularly despicable that they were deliberately aimed at places where people were doing their Christmas shopping or were out for a festive drink, while the attack on commercial targets was deeply unpleasant. The message for these dissident republicans is that they will not succeed. These attacks are utterly pointless. They are disgraceful and they have been condemned almost universally across Northern Ireland. They have no political support and will achieve nothing. I am certain from my many conversations with the Chief Constable, the most recent of which was this morning, that the Police Service of Northern Ireland will leave no stone unturned in bringing to justice those responsible for the attacks before Christmas.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I, like others, want to express my deep regret and sympathy to Paul Goggins’s family. Paul exhibited many good qualities, if not every good quality, that one would expect to be found in a decent human being—integrity, humility and genuine friendship, as well as a deep sense of social justice, to name but a few. I first met him when he was a Northern Ireland Minister. He was outstanding because of his sheer decency and sheer human qualities, and he played a very positive role, as other hon. Members have already said. In time, after I entered the House, he became a firm friend, a trusted source of good advice and a confidant. I have been very moved because, right across the House today, we all miss Paul, and we will miss him even more in future, with his good counsel and his wise advice. To his colleagues, friends and family, I add my condolences and sympathy. It is a sad day for all of us.

I welcome the Secretary of State’s endorsement of the significant progress made in the Haass talks. I express my appreciation for her involvement and that of the Prime Minister in the later stages. The Secretary of State will recall that when the Haass process has been mentioned on previous occasions, I have urged a much greater involvement at an earlier stage by both the British and Irish Governments to ensure a positive outcome and to put in place a determined implementation and legislation programme. The process was not just about the talks themselves and whatever conclusion they came to; there needed to be a major follow-through process, and that is still required.

I believe that a lot has been achieved—the glass is not half full; it is three-quarters full—but may I now urge the Secretary of State to ensure that her Government engage even more intensively, hands on and proactively with the parties, the Irish Government and Richard Haass and his team, and take the lead to ensure the implementation of the considerable progress that has been made, the initiation of legislation where it is required and the resolution of the outstanding issues?

[Mrs Villiers]

I certainly give the hon. Gentleman the reassurance that I will continue to be very strongly involved with the parties, the Irish Government and Dr Haass, as well as with friends across the Atlantic who have taken a close interest in the process. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words about my involvement and that of the Prime Minister.

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue of implementation. Even had there been full agreement on new year’s eve, there would still be a lot of work ahead to turn Dr Haass’s proposals into legislation and into new institutions operating on the ground. The UK Government, the Northern Ireland Office, officials and I are very keen to work on the practical implementation process. Not least because of our current responsibilities in relation to parading, we are very keen and eager to input into the process of implementing any agreement if, as I hope, it can be agreed between the parties.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

The Government are entirely committed to the integrity of the rule of law, and we will maintain our position. I think it important for the outcome of the Haass discussions also to abide by that principle, and to be consistent with maintaining the integrity of the rule of law.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that all the victims out there still need truth and justice, and, indeed, are entitled to truth and justice? What assessment has she made of last week’s “Panorama” programme about the military reaction force and the murders committed by its members?

[Mrs Villiers]

Let me take this opportunity to emphasise how important it is for victims to be at the centre of any proposals on dealing with the past. That was also emphasised during the Democratic Unionist party’s Opposition day debate. The allegations made in the “Panorama” programme have been referred to the police, and it is for the police to investigate them. I should stress that when the troops were operational in Northern Ireland they operated according to strict rules, and that the vast majority of the police and the Army officers who served there during the troubles were entirely courageous, supportive, and compliant with the rule of law.

Northern Ireland

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I thank those who tabled the motion for giving us the opportunity to discuss this subject today. I should like to think that the debate will lay some foundations for the work of Dr Haass and Meghan O’Sullivan.

Let me begin by endorsing the honest comments of the Rev. David Clements, who said this morning that neither the past nor victims should be used by anyone to advance a selfish political agenda. Let me also draw Members’ attention, as others have done already, to the fact that today is the 20th anniversary of one of the most horrific events of the troubles. I offer my sympathy, and the unconditional sympathy and support of the SDLP, to all the innocent people who were killed in that horrific Shankill road bombing.

Dr Richard Haass has, in essence, been invited to help us to sort out critically important unfinished business dating back to the time of the Good Friday agreement, more than 15 years ago. We are grateful to him and his team for agreeing to help us. Our failure to grasp the issues of flags, parading and the past has cost us dear, summer in and summer out, year in and year out, during most of those 15 years.

The SDLP’s firm goal in the Haass negotiations is a further comprehensive agreement that would grab the imagination of people in Northern Ireland—and, indeed, further afield—and would inspire hope and create ambition for the future. Not least, such an agreement would send a resounding message to potential investors that Northern Ireland is an even more secure and stable place to which to bring business, thus creating the jobs and prosperity that we dearly need. A piecemeal, temporary, cobbled-together agreement would sell Northern Ireland short and dash the hopes of our people, who look to us, the politicians, to deliver meaningful change.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that real progress was made 10 years ago in Derry/Londonderry, when both communities worked together to ensure that parades in that great town did not cause the strife and difficulties they are causing in Belfast?

[Dr McDonnell]

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman. All the difficulties have been resolved in Derry. Everything is now a celebration, and the contention surrounding the parades has gone. Derry’s month as UK City of Culture has been an outstanding success story. I congratulate the people of Derry, and, indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), who represents them.

We in the SDLP seek from Dr Haass—in broad terms—a bigger and better agreement. We want an agreement that transcends the narrow issues of parades and flags, and addresses the past in an expansive way; an agreement that celebrates rather than denigrates the expression of culture, allegiance and political identity across the communities in Northern Ireland; an agreement that promotes healing and reconciliation, and enables us to grow up politically and develop mature politics in the atmosphere of growing mutual respect that was promised in the Good Friday agreement, after which—in 1998—the people voted for

“reconciliation, tolerance and mutual trust”

and for

“partnership, equality and mutual respect”.

Only a radical change of attitude all round that embraces the values and ambitions of that agreement will deliver the successful outcome that Northern Ireland needs so much. Surely, given ambition, flexibility and resolve, that much is not beyond our reach. We in the SDLP are up for the challenge posed by Dr Haass and Professor Meghan O’Sullivan.

In recent weeks—I put my hand up at this point, as indeed we all must, because we have all made mistakes and must now join others in making progress—we have sought to make our small contribution to the healing process by addressing an issue that has been raised in the House from time to time. Some months ago, our councillors in Newry voted to retain the name of a local play park that the council had named after an IRA hunger striker 10 years earlier. Our councillors genuinely believed that if the name were allowed to remain, a line would be drawn in the sand and no other public spaces would be similarly named in future. In local terms, perhaps, that was a pragmatic decision—it was, perhaps, understandable in terms of local government. Our representatives acted entirely in good faith. They reassured me, one and all, that it was neither in their thinking nor was it their intention to cause hurt or distress to anyone. I want now to reaffirm the SDLP’s position. Our position is that no public place or public space should be named after any person involved in state or paramilitary violence of any sort.

The issues addressed in the Haass process can be resolved only on the basis of mutual respect, equality and parity of esteem. The SDLP will not be found wanting in generosity or determination to bring about a comprehensive agreement that will be an example to divided communities everywhere. The atmosphere for these talks would be greatly improved, and Belfast traders would breathe a huge sigh of relief, if the loyalist flag protesters called off their planned demonstrations in the city in the run-up to Christmas and if the Orange Order agreed to call a halt to its continuing irresponsible protests at Ardoyne, which are resulting in a policing operation that the PSNI estimates is costing £50,000 a day—which amounts to £5 million over the period. That would have paid for 200 or more young teachers, 200 nurses and perhaps even 200 extra police that we so badly need

[Mr Donaldson]

The point the hon. Gentleman makes about the economy is an important one. Is it not therefore a matter of regret—this is not an issue for this House but it is nevertheless worth placing on the record—that yesterday the Minister for the Environment, who belongs to the SDLP, refused to move a Bill that could transform our planning system and help attract a lot more investment into Northern Ireland? Should not the SDLP act on its own words?

[Dr McDonnell]

At this point, may I welcome you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to your place and say what a privilege it is to speak in this Chamber under your chairmanship?

I will respond later to the comment that was just made, because it is a clear example of what is wrong, rather than what is right.

The past is a more intractable and complex issue than flags and parades and it casts a long shadow in Northern Ireland. By far the best and most coherent blueprint for tackling the past is the report of Lord Eames and Denis Bradley. The group jointly chaired by Lord Eames and Denis Bradley carried out an immense amount of work, publishing a report that ran to almost 200 pages and carried more than 30 main recommendations. It is unacceptable that such a balanced and carefully considered document should apparently be forgotten—gathering dust on a shelf somewhere—because of the controversy that attached to one of its recommendations in relation to ex gratia payments. The SDLP believes Eames-Bradley still has much to commend it. All would benefit from giving it the reconsideration it has well-earned and is due, while, of course, bringing additional ideas of their own to the table.

There are many among us who would wish to forget the past, but there are many victims out there whose lives have been wrecked and who cannot move on without closure.

[Ms Ritchie]

Nearly 20 years ago six people from my constituency of South Down were murdered in cold blood at O’Toole’s bar in Loughinisland, and nearly 20 years later the victims and families of those six good men have still not received justice or an answer as to why they were killed, and those who carried out this heinous crime have still not been brought to justice. Does my hon. Friend agree that the PSNI must now complete its investigation, based on the work of the former police ombudsman, so that families have a pathway to justice and truth?

[Dr McDonnell]

I agree with my hon. Friend. [Interruption.] I also agree with others who are whispering from a sedentary position that there are many victims out there whose lives have been wrecked and who cannot move on without closure and without answers. I do not distinguish between people based on what their politics were or what their religion was: innocent victims are innocent victims.

Unfortunately, time and again the past comes back to haunt us. I am told that this evening “Channel 4 News” will bring us some horrible truths about the past in Northern Ireland, and on Friday a book will be published called “Lethal Allies”, chronicling some of the criminal collusions between renegade elements of the security forces and loyalist killers. I am given to believe that, among its revelations, it will throw some light on the horrific murder of a former colleague of mine, Dinny Mullen. Dinny was the father of my friend and colleague, Denise Fox. Dinny was targeted and murdered in his own home because he was an SDLP activist. His crime was that he was the election agent for my colleague, Seamus Mallon, a former Member of this House.

There is a murky past out there, and while I must put on record my view that the vast majority of the members of the RUC—as the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) said earlier—and the security forces, including many who are now Members of this House, served with integrity, honour and distinction, a small number of others acted in the shadows and they dishonoured that honourable vast majority. They acted in a way that was no better than those they were attempting to oppose—the terrorists they were challenging. They acted well outside the law, and lines of accountability were blurred and, indeed, ignored. They acted directly and indirectly in acts of terrorism. The gang that murdered Dinny Mullen went on within a short space of time, and with little challenge by police or security forces, to murder well in excess of 100 people, including members of the Miami show band. We need to get closure on a lot of these issues.

I want to say a few words about the two Government co-guarantors and about an earlier point that was made. The British and Irish Governments, who are co-guarantors of the Good Friday agreement, must be bold, decisive and vigilant in standing up to the narrow self-interest of the DUP and Sinn Fein, which the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) referred to. The DUP and Sinn Fein made a savage attack on what was otherwise a very positive and creative planning Bill. They tried to hollow it out and destroy it, and the Minister responsible had no choice but to dismantle it. This was petty party self-interest to destroy the Bill.

The two Governments must remain centrally involved in the Haass process and be prepared to underwrite the comprehensive agreement that I hope we will have, with good will and mutual respect. I compliment Peter Robinson, leader of the DUP, on what he has said in two recent very significant recent speeches. With attitudes such as that, we can achieve a further agreement and achieve peace.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kate Hoey]

We are all very happy about that.

We have to recognise that there is a feeling among the pro-Union community in Northern Ireland that there has been an unevenness about the way in which we have investigated atrocities, particularly in relation to the huge amounts of money that were spent on the Bloody Sunday inquiry. That inquiry did produce a very good report and the Prime Minister made an excellent contribution in recognising that, but the idea that the PSNI will spent thousands and thousands—

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Kate Hoey]

Of course I will give way.

[Dr McDonnell]

Does the hon. Lady accept that the reasons why so much money was spent on the Bloody Sunday inquiry were, first, that a whitewash job was done on it in the beginning and the lies had to be reversed and, secondly, that half the money was spent because of Ministry of Defence obstruction, which caused endless amounts of money to be spent on lawyers, who had to move all over the place? A fraction of the money could have brought us to the same conclusion.

[Kate Hoey]

The fact is that a huge amount of money was spent on that inquiry. We have had the report and the apology, and I do not see the necessity of the PSNI spending a lot more time and money trying to prosecute people who are now pensioners and who, whatever happened in the past, and whatever went wrong, were doing what they thought at the time was their duty.

Why have that money, time and effort not been spent investigating atrocities such as that at Kingsmill? That was a shocking atrocity, as the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) who met some of the victims said. This is something people do not understand. They do not understand why no one has been investigated further for Omagh or Enniskillen—we could go through a whole list. It is just not acceptable because it seems that things are investigated only when the military or armed forces have been involved in some way. I know that their standards have to be higher, but when it comes to looking at justice, people feel aggrieved because they feel they have not had justice.

I join the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley in paying tribute to the Royal Ulster Constabulary. People who did not live in border areas in those days realise that they do not understand what many of those RUC officers and their families went through in dark nights, when they were subject to the most appalling retribution. I add my tribute to the RUC to those of other hon. Members.

Dr Richard Haass has a huge task. He may find that he can move some things forward and get some more agreements, but ultimately, one man coming in from the United States will not change what people feel. This is interesting because we are talking about the past, and I hope Dr Haass recognises his country’s past role in the way it spent thousands and thousands of pounds allowing money to come to Ireland that was then used to fund the IRA and kill innocent civilians. I hope he realises that the United States had a bit of involvement for some time in ensuring that money was coming through to the IRA. We must remember that kind of thing as well; otherwise, the issue is again seen as one-sided.

I see huge changes in Northern Ireland, and tourism now is brilliantly up on all the figures we have had in the past. The Titanic centre, the new Giant’s Causeway centre—I can name something in every constituency in Northern Ireland that has improved and is bringing in tourism.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

We have introduced an allowance for employer’s national insurance, which will make it cheaper to employ people and create jobs; we are keeping interest rates low through our deficit reduction programme; we are freezing fuel duty; and we are cutting corporation tax to boost business. We are determined to make Northern Ireland a fabulous place to do business in, and to help small businesses.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I welcome our new shadow Secretary of State and pay tribute to his predecessor for the great work he did. Does the Secretary of State agree, however, that an economic boost would do a lot to defuse the current community tension? Will she commit herself to helping us to achieve some of the measures, such as the maintenance of low VAT and others that have been mentioned, announced in yesterday’s Irish budget? That would be a major achievement.

[Mrs Villiers]

I am afraid that EU rules mean that we cannot have a different level of VAT in one part of the country, but we will certainly look at the measures introduced by the Irish to see what lessons can be learned. We are also determined to help rebalance and boost the Northern Ireland economy, which is why we signed the economic pact in June. Last week I announced an update, which demonstrated real progress on start-up loans, research and development, support for Bombardier, and a ministerial taskforce on banking to ensure that businesses get the access to finance they need.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Alasdair McDonnell Excerpts

Monday 24th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I welcome the fact that, through this Bill, the House is paying some attention to Northern Ireland today, but we should not lull ourselves into a false sense of security that everything in the garden is rosy and just a few tweaks here and there will make everything perfect. Attention to Northern Ireland from this House is needed. I believe it was the shadow Secretary of State who said that devolution cannot mean disengagement, but there has been some degree of disengagement.

Although I will comment on the Bill, I feel there is a need, before I do so, to set it in context. The context is that, yes, progress has been made—I agree with others on that—but there is a lot more to do. The Bill is concerned with some details of the interior decoration of a structure whose purpose and future are still being debated. Fifteen years ago, we had the Good Friday or Belfast agreement, and legislation followed in this House to put much of that agenda into law. This country—indeed, the world—thought that we had achieved the impossible and that lasting peace was copper-fastened. Sadly, that is not quite true.

It was wonderful to have an end to the violence and to hear almost all the guns and almost all the bombs fall silent. Hope gushed eternal from the people who had been oppressed, smothered, injured and damaged by violence, and they dared to dream of a life and a future, but an end to violence was not peace in any meaningful sense. Really, it was just what it said on the tin: it was an end to violence. Peace does not happen; it has to be built, and when it has been built, it has to be sustained, and it can be sustained only by people’s hope for a better life and a better future. There is no doubt in my mind that in 1998 the people of Ireland, north and south, were voting not just for peace, but for a better life that the peace would make possible.

We need our people to make a long-term personal investment in that peace, and we must show them what return they will get on that personal investment. In other words, the peace process can be sustained only if it is followed up by a prosperity process. Unfortunately, the financial boost required to pump-prime a prosperity process has never quite been delivered. We have heard much talk about rebalancing our economy towards wealth creation and away from over-reliance on public spending, but we have seen little action other than cuts in welfare. We have had a great debate about cutting corporation tax to put us on a level playing field with the rest of the island of Ireland to attract serious foreign investment, but the Treasury did not want a cut and priced it right out of the ballpark. The economy in Northern Ireland is fragile and the private sector small and extremely fragile. To date, too few of our people have seen any prosperity or, indeed, any economic benefit arrive on the back of the peace process. That is unfortunate, because they were entitled to some economic advance.

As a result, many people—those on the economic margins of our society—are looking backward, not forward, whether they be former provos peddling themselves as dissidents, or loyalist paramilitaries creating havoc under the guise of a flag protest. Incidentally, that protest wiped out most of our Christmas and hospitality season and left many of our hotels, restaurants and retailers bankrupt. Whatever the source or the excuse for disruption, Northern Ireland has quite a way to go before we can say that we have true peace. I am anxious that the Bill should not be taken as some sort of a final touch on the whole process. We will not have true peace until we have attended to all the factors that undermine peace, including economic factors, and we will not have it unless the sovereign Government recognise the responsibilities they undertook back in 1998. Devolution has been used by Government as an excuse for walking away. I repeat what the shadow Secretary of State said: devolution should not be an excuse for disengagement.

It needs to be remembered that devolution in Northern Ireland is based on an international agreement between two sovereign Governments from which neither can walk away. The British Government have an obligation to see the Good Friday agreement through to completion. Unfortunately, it is still not complete. There is an obligation to act, in co-operation with the Irish Government, to ensure that devolution is not an excuse for stagnation. I regret to tell the House that, in terms of the special objectives, devolution in Northern Ireland has stalled to some extent. The two main parties have pushed the other three parties, including mine, to the margins—they have pushed us aside and are carving up the cake in their own self-interest, rather than the public interest. The Prime Minister and this Government cannot turn a blind eye any longer: they must recognise that the two-party stranglehold within a structure that was designed to be inclusive is now preventing that structure from achieving its objectives.

After 15 years, where is the progress on reconciliation and where is there any reference to reconciliation in the Bill? Where is the progress on cohesion, sharing and integration, or any reference to them? Where is there any progress on the victims’ situation, or on dealing with the past or with divisions? I am distressed and concerned that the Bill is silent on those matters. I would prefer that we were here today to discuss how progress on those issues could be advanced and included in a Bill.

[Mr Donaldson]

Would the hon. Gentleman care to tell the House how he feels it is a contribution to reconciliation for his party’s councillors to support the naming of a children’s play park after a convicted, dead IRA terrorist, who was caught in possession of the weapon involved in the murder of 10 innocent Protestants at Kingsmill in south Armagh?

[Dr McDonnell]

The issue the right hon. Gentleman refers to is not relevant to this Bill. It is quite simply an example of the DUP—

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

You wanted to talk about victims.

[Dr McDonnell]

Yes. The DUP are bigots and sectarian and they want to drive a wedge through our society.

[Mr Donaldson]

Mr Deputy Speaker!

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

“Bigots” is a very strong word. I am sure that hon. Members never judge each other like that.

[Dr McDonnell]

There are issues here, and these people come to apologise for the failures that they have created in Stormont.

This Bill should deal with serious difficulties in Northern Ireland and offer more remedies; if it does not, it will be inadequate and less than fit for purpose. I will now discuss some of the details of the Bill—first, the clause that deals with donations and the measures that will impact on the functioning of the Northern Ireland Assembly. I was deeply concerned to hear that there could be restrictions on Irish citizens making donations to political parties in the north. Many of the greatest friends and supporters of the peace process are in the south, and without their support we would not be where we are today. Indeed, those people supported all the parties across the north, not just one or two. I would be deeply concerned about any perceived restrictions on donations from Irish citizens, because something has to be realised in these debates: we are not talking about Surrey, Sussex, Essex or, indeed, Yorkshire. Northern Ireland is different: many of us are Irish and many of us see ourselves as Irish. There is an ambiguity around the settlement that we had, which has created ambiguity. Thank God for that, because it has allowed peace to flourish. We have to build prosperity on that peace.

We want to move towards a more open and accountable system of donations in Northern Ireland, and we are happy to do so when that is possible. However, those who make donations on a certain understanding of anonymity should be protected from retrospective action unless they give authorisation. That authorisation should be specific, rather than assumed. I do not want to take up any more time, but I think I was quoted earlier, and I would endorse that. I have seen a number of people who have been intimidated, and who are frightened and worried. We have to protect them.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman said that many people saw themselves as Irish in Northern Ireland. That may be the case, but does he acknowledge that the national opinion poll last year showed that only 21% of nationalists were in favour of a united Ireland? This year, only 19% of Irish nationalists want a united Ireland. Things are changing. Is he part of that change, or is he just one of the old boys who do not want to change at all?

[Dr McDonnell]

I am not sure what answer I am supposed to give, or what answer is expected. I do not think that any of us pay much attention to opinion polls yet, at the same time, we can quote selectively from them when it suits.

[Mr Dodds]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. A moment ago, the hon. Member for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) was challenged about his party’s support for the naming of a playground after an IRA terrorist. Rather than answering the point, he used the term “bigots” to refer to hon. Members in a somewhat childish reaction, instead of responding to the substantive point. Can you give a ruling, Mr Deputy Speaker, on the use of the term “bigot” as parliamentary language to refer to hon. Members?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr McDonnell]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. For the record, I did not accuse any hon. Member. I referred to a group of—[Interruption.]

[Mr Dodds]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Before we get too far with further points of order, I know that reference was not made to an individual Member, but the Members to whom the hon. Member for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) referred were sitting behind him. In a sense, it was a collective use of the word. I do not want to prolong this. I have given my view and I want to hear more of the hon. Gentleman’s speech.

[Dr McDonnell]

I want to put on the record my deep concern that there are considerations to take into account about placing restrictions on Irish citizens who make donations to Irish political parties in the north. I do not wish to back that proposal, and I do not support that part of the Bill. As for transparency on donations, we want to move towards the open and accountable system to which I have referred.

We are comfortable, even though the Secretary of State has some grudge against the hon. Members for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) and for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and me, with the phasing out of the dual mandate in due course, and we have gone most of the way towards doing so. However, that should allow for some flexibility where appropriate, and clear lines of communication between the House of Commons and the devolved Assembly are essential. The way in which those lines of communication will be maintained should be explained in the Bill. It should be noted that there is no corresponding legislation covering the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament. I am concerned that a rush to legislate on this could have unknown, and perhaps unwanted and unexpected, consequences.

Furthermore, our party would point out that the provisions do not deal with a dual mandate between the Assembly and the House of Lords. We do not agree that, somehow or other, the House of Lords is different. If there is an exclusion or ruling out of the dual mandate, it should be ruled out for all. If the Secretary of State is determined to ban the practice, why can that not be done for the upper House? Those issues need to be explored further as the Bill proceeds through Parliament.

Briefly, the reduction in the size of the Assembly should be approached with caution. Yes, we agreed to a small reduction in the context of the reduction of the number of Westminster seats—that is on the record at Stormont, where the discussions took place—but the Assembly should be as inclusive as possible, and should involve as many people as possible until a sustainable peace and good politics are well established there. We believe that until that happens there are risks.

The extension of the term of the Assembly is wrong. It is totally inappropriate for any Member given a mandate for four years to have their term extended to five years without clear justification. The election has been postponed so that it can be held at a time of possible tension, wedged between the 100th anniversary, as has been said, of the Easter rising and the 100th anniversary of the battle of the Somme. While hon. Members might not be involved in raising tension—indeed, we will do all that we can to reduce it—the anniversary of the battle of the Somme will increase tensions, as will the Easter rising anniversary, and it is inappropriate to hold an election between those two anniversaries.

Electoral registration in Northern Ireland is defective and while we can dot some of the i’s and cross some of the t’s in the Bill, there are some areas in which 20% to 25% of people—the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) suggested that it was 30%—are not on the register. There is a duty on someone, somewhere to ensure that that registration gap is covered and repaired.

I do not wish to say the matters in the Bill are not important—they are—but on their own they are not enough to bring progress and achieve better electoral registration. Any honest observer will say that there has been little progress overall in Northern Ireland. I urge the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State and the Government to get a grip on the stagnant situation in Northern Ireland, as we face serious problems.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr McDonnell]

Sorry, no: I want to make progress.

Months of illegality during the flags protests do not bode well for the marching season, which has started badly, as we have heard. We are now much further away from dealing with flags, marches and illegal bonfires than we were five years ago.

I want to put on the record the fact that profits from illegal fuel laundering in Ireland generally—we can split it north and south; it used to be a northern problem, but it has migrated south, and regrettably it has moved into parts of southern Scotland and northern England—amounting to £60 million to £70 million a year are swelling the coffers of the provo organisation. Much of that has now been set up as a privatised business.

[David Simpson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr McDonnell]

I am trying to make progress, but the hon. Gentleman has an interest in this, so I shall do so.

[David Simpson]

I am grateful. The hon. Gentleman referred to illicit fuel laundering across the whole of Northern Ireland, right across the whole of the United Kingdom and into the Republic of Ireland. If his party agreed to the implementation of the National Crime Agency that would go a long way towards trying to resolve the problem.

[Dr McDonnell]

Issues relating to the National Crime Agency have to be resolved. We are keen that responsibility for dealing with crime and keeping the law is retained in Northern Ireland with the PSNI.

Beyond fuel laundering, tobacco smuggling creates about £100 million-worth of benefit to a wide cross-section of people. Some of them are provos, some are dissidents, many are loyalists and many are non-aligned criminals. The Bill works to convey the impression—perhaps with some justification—that we have a normal society. Yes, we are moving towards a normal society, but our society did not suddenly become normal when organised violence ended. There were generations of industrial decline, then decades of violence, which left our economy drastically skewed towards public spending. It will take at least a generation to fix it, as the Prime Minister recognised before the election.

The people who brought us the decades of violence are still there, doing rather nicely out of organised crime, which is in danger of becoming normalised. Millions of litres of laundered fuel have been seized, but not one person has gone to jail. We have a deeply divided society, with little prospect of divisions being tackled seriously if the current two-party stranglehold is allowed to determine the rate of progress. Let us be blunt and recognise just how deep the divisions are that we have and the divisions that we are asked to tackle.

We have a major challenge to tackle. The Bill should tackle the reconciliation issue, the victims issue, dealing with the past, and cohesion, sharing and integration. All these things are vital and should be included in some shape or form in the Bill, and there should be some movement on that.