Police Reform White Paper

Roger Gale Excerpts

Monday 26th January 2026 Commons Chamber

[Shabana Mahmood]

Let me reassure my hon. Friend that we will ensure that the roll-out of all policing powers, including the use of technology, is in line with the race action plan, which we support, and that any measures are stress-tested to ensure that they serve all communities equally. It is our position that the police must always police without fear or favour, so that every community can be confident that they are getting the right quality of policing and nobody is being unfairly targeted.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

Kent is one of the largest counties in the country. It faces significant geographic challenges. We have the channel tunnel; Dover, the largest port of entry into the United Kingdom; Manston airport, which is likely to reopen; and, of course, the small matter of illegal migration across the channel. I cannot see how a policing area that I understand will stretch from Banbury in Oxfordshire to Herne Bay on the North sea coast and Sandwich on the channel coast, will be policed effectively and locally, as it currently is. I am, I think, one of the only Members of this House who has held a warrant as a serving police officer—[Interruption.] I did say “one of the only”, not “the only one”. I understand only too well the need for policing to keep pace with the same tools that are used by the criminals, but will the Home Secretary tell the House whether or not this plan has the confidence of the constabulary?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I thank the right hon. Member for his contribution and for his service, as well as that of other hon. Members who have served in our police service. I reassure him that, as will be clear when I introduce legislation later in the year, the plan for regional forces will include an absolute focus on local police areas. Local policing for local communities will be tailored to many of the needs that he has pointed out, but at a regional level we will have the necessary economies of scale and the capacity to deal with specialist investigations, while ensuring that the quality of those investigations does not depend on which part of the country they happen to be in. When the detail is out, I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will be able to support the proposals, given that they will focus carefully on local policing areas specifically in order to deal with some of the issues he has raised.

The exact number of regional forces and the geography that they will span will be a matter for the reviewer—I hope to announce who that will be very soon—with a view to reporting in the summer so that we can crack on with rolling out these reforms.

I have been delighted and a little surprised by the sheer number of policing leaders who have come out in support of these proposals, including those who represent organisations that will see change as a result of the reforms. The sheer range of people who have supported the White Paper shows that these reforms are the right ones for policing in our country.

Draft Public Order Act 2023 (Interference With Use or Operation of Key National Infrastructure) Regulations 2025

Roger Gale Excerpts

Wednesday 17th December 2025 General Committees

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

Thank you for calling me, Sir Alec. As you are aware, I am not a member of the Committee and I therefore have no right to vote, but I do have the right to speak, which I am now exercising. My interest in this topic, in parliamentary terms, goes back a very long time. I am not and never have been an animal rights activist; I am an animal welfarist, and in my mind there is a fundamental difference between the two. I do not, and never will, condone any illegal activity, including violent demonstration of any kind—I want to place that firmly on the record.

In my constituency, I have Discovery Park, the former Pfizer establishment at Sandwich. It is an absolutely excellent life sciences establishment, embracing some 100 to 150 small and medium-sized life sciences businesses. The Minister said in her opening remarks that life sciences are vital to the future of this country, and she is absolutely right. I have no desire to impede the work of our life sciences sector—far from it; I would like to enhance it, particularly at Discovery Park in Sandwich.

Some 40 years ago, I was the founding chairman of the all-party parliamentary group for FRAME—the Fund for the Replacement of Animals in Medical Experiments. I had the huge privilege at that time of working with Professor Michael Balls, to whom the hon. Member for Bristol East referred. who then led the European Centre for the Validation of Alternative Methods. Our commitment and desire was to seek—bear in mind that this was 40 years ago—validated alternatives to the use of animals. It has always been my view that animals have no place in a laboratory.

Having said that, we also recognised that we do not solve a problem by moving it from A to B. As some would have done then—indeed, as some would do now—simply shutting down animal experimentation in this country might give people a warm glow, but it would only move the problem from the United Kingdom to other countries, where the research would be carried out under worse conditions. There would be no animal welfare gain. The commitment has to be to validate alternatives, and to move as swiftly as possible to in vitro and other methods of research, rather than in vivo. That is what we should be heading for.

It therefore saddens me that, having made a commitment to animal welfare, this Government should, as their first practical measure of any kind, seek to diminish animal welfare, rather than enhance it, by trying to include in national infrastructure an item that has no place in that legislation at all. By the way, I do not share the view of the Liberal Democrat spokesman, the hon. Member for Cheltenham, about the 2023 Act; it was a good and necessary piece of legislation. There are arguments to be had about its scope; nevertheless, the fundamental principle was correct. What the Committee is being asked to do this afternoon is not correct.

The road map has been referred to—great, we apparently have a road map, when the engine has not even started. There has been no significant animal welfare gain under this Administration since they took office, and their very first measure is one that seeks to dimmish the welfare of animals. That cannot be right. I therefore urge the Committee to reject this measure this afternoon. This instrument has to have a full and proper debate on the Floor of the House of Commons. That is a debate in which I would like to participate and then be able to vote.

In conclusion, I am and always have been wholly wedded to the validation of alternative methods. That is what is needed, not this half-baked measure.

Police Reform

Roger Gale Excerpts

Thursday 13th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Jones]

I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to our local police and crime commissioners, including Clive Grunshaw, for their work. He is absolutely right to say that there have been challenges. There has been a reduction in the number of years for which police chiefs serve, from about five to about two and a half—so something is happening there. There are also fewer people applying for such jobs as they become available. We want really healthy competition for these roles, which are very significant and important to us. Where there is a large force and only one applicant for the role, something is not working as it should.

My hon. Friend is right to ask questions on the wider question of leadership; we could have a whole debate about that. The former Home Secretary, David Blunkett, is conducting a review for us on how we improve leadership from top to bottom across the entire policing system. Our reform agenda is looking at performance across the board within policing, and at the welfare, training and support that have to go alongside it. We ask a lot of our police, and we do not always give them the support that they need. Those two things, hand in hand, will form a major part of our reform programme.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

May I first pay tribute to Matthew Scott, Kent’s police and crime commissioner, who, over many years and through working closely with chief constables, has seen a successive increase year on year in the number of police officers in Kent that he has managed to fund. While I am on my feet, and as one of the few Members of this House who have actually held a warrant, may I also pay tribute to Kent constabulary, which continues to do a superb job under the existing system?

The only example that we have of a mayoral system is in London, and it is a disaster. It has failed. I am sorry, but for the Minister to say that the model of the police and crime commissioner is broken, while seeking to praise the police and crime commissioners, is little short of disingenuous. At the moment, Kent has a basket-case county council, but it is likely to have three unitary authorities and no mayor. Who is going to replace our excellent police and crime commissioner, and how will they do the job?

[Sarah Jones]

To correct the right hon. Gentleman, there are five deputy mayors within the mayoral system that we have already—not just in London, but in Manchester, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, and York and North Yorkshire. That model is working really well. I suggest that he talk to someone like Tracy Brabin, who is bringing together all the different agencies under her model, and the system works very well. The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has done an excellent job in working with police forces across the capital to keep us safe. I also pay tribute to Kent’s police and crime commissioner, Matthew Scott.

The right hon. Gentleman asks what the arrangements will be where there is not a mayor. The higher-tier authority leaders will provide the board, and there will be a paid person who is the police and crime lead. In some cases, it may be that they are the police and crime commissioner if local authorities make that decision, but it will be for local authorities and leaders on the board to make the decision. That is how the funding model will work where there are not mayors.

Child Sexual Exploitation: Casey Report

Roger Gale Excerpts

Monday 16th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I agree with my hon. Friend that we need action across social services, and that is why the Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill that the Education Secretary is taking forward is so important. The issues around online grooming and exploitation are immensely important. This is both about the abuse that stays online, often forcing children to get involved in the most appalling abuse and acts through online blackmail, pressure and coercion, and about the way in which this is used to provoke offline activity leading to offline physical abuse and contact abuse. We are working with the National Crime Agency on new technology to address this and with the Education Department on how we build children’s resilience in dealing with these crimes.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

Much has been made in the House this afternoon of the fact that the former Director of Public Prosecutions, now the Prime Minister, instigated a prosecution against grooming gangs. That being so, he was clearly better placed than most of us to understand the need for the national inquiry that he initially so rigidly resisted, but I would like to associate myself with the apology offered by the right hon. Lady to the House on behalf of all of us and all the authorities that have failed young people so dismally. Those young people now want to know that they can have confidence and trust in the national inquiry, and in who leads it. Can she tell the House who that is likely to be, and what terms of reference they will have?

[Yvette Cooper]

The terms of reference will be set out in due course. We have not yet appointed or determined the chair for the national inquiry. We will do so and set that out for the House. I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s response on the issue of the national apology for the historical and current challenges that have led to victims being let down over very many years. I think his response echoes the way in which the whole House came together in 2022 around similar support for victims.

Oral Answers to Questions

Roger Gale Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that vital issue. Just last month I held a rural crime roundtable in North Yorkshire and met local residents and farmers to discuss this important topic. Last week, in recognition of the success of the national rural and wildlife crime units, I announced additional funding for both in the next financial year, so that they can continue to support the police in rural areas. We are also working with the National Police Chiefs’ Council on the next iteration of the rural and wildlife crime strategy. Later this year we will implement the Equipment Theft (Prevention) Act 2023 and put the necessary secondary legislation in place. Ahead of that, we will publish the Government’s response to the call for evidence on the scope of that legislation.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

One of the less widely recognised rural crimes is the use of catapults to maim and kill wildlife. Those weapons are also used in urban settings. I know that the Home Office takes the view that the wildlife protection legislation and the police powers ought to be adequate to deal with that, but at the moment they patently are not. Will the Minister consider reviewing that and possibly amending the Crime and Policing Bill to take account of it?

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I am always happy to review legislation and ensure that it is fit for purpose. I would be very happy to discuss that further with the right hon. Gentleman.

Asylum Hotels and Illegal Channel Crossings

Roger Gale Excerpts

Tuesday 25th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle]

It is clearly important that overseas development moneys are used to try to prevent the flows of people that have been the result of collapses in various countries. We in the Home Office will do all we can to minimise the spend that we currently take from the overseas development aid budget.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

Mr Speaker, you will know that most of the illegal cross-channel migrants who come to this country come through my constituency, at the processing centre in Manston. As such, I have taken a particular interest in this subject. What I have to say is certainly not going to be popular, either among Conservative Members or among Labour Members, but neither is it going to be populist. The Home Secretary and I—not together—both visited the Calais area recently. We saw there hundreds if not thousands of very determined, very desperate people who are going to risk their lives to cross the channel. The Conservatives’ Rwanda scheme and this Government’s much-vaunted smashing of the gangs will not solve that problem. There is no quick fix, and the only solution will be long term and international. In that context, does the Minister believe that cutting overseas aid is going to do anything other than worsen the problem?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman raises that issue with the Chancellor.

Licensing Hours Extension Bill

Roger Gale Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 17th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Ranger]

I had not considered that, but my hon. Friend makes a valid point.

Measures to extend hours provide the additional benefit of boosting the hospitality sector. Blanket licensing hours extensions introduced by the Secretary of State mean that businesses do not have to apply for individual extensions, should they wish to stay open longer to celebrate a particular event. Under normal circumstances, venues have to apply for a temporary event notice, which costs £21 for an application and involves considerable administrative work. The Bill will have the twofold impact of saving businesses time and money and meaning that local licensing authorities avoid the strain of being required to process large numbers of individual applications, possibly at very late notice.

Licensing hours extensions in England and Wales have been implemented on occasions, including royal weddings and jubilees and major sporting events, such as when the England men’s football squad reached the finals of the Euros in 2020 and 2024. These events bring us together to share in these occasions, whether that is their joy, the perhaps inevitable trauma when England lose on penalties again, or the anticipated jubilation when Wales reach the world cup final or when Wrexham reach the FA cup final. There is generally less of an urgent issue with royal events, for which more notice is generally available. The situation is much more complicated with sporting events, when there can be only a few days’ notice of a team reaching a semi-final or final. Unfortunately, that has led to significant occasions where it has not been possible for the Government to extend licensing hours.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

As we are in the business of name-checking, I am delighted to say that after a period of lamentable closure, the Half Moon and Seven Stars in Preston, the village I live in, will be reopening its doors at 5 o’clock tonight, celebrating, I think, Pubs Day today—neither the hon. Gentleman nor I will be there, unfortunately. More seriously, the implications of this Bill are considerable for an industry that has been under great pressure for a long time, particularly since covid. Is it not the case that it is extraordinary that these hoops have to be jumped through to do what most people would regard as normal and sensible?

[Andrew Ranger]

I agree 100% with the right hon. Member. What he raises is what the Bill seeks to deal with, basically. I join him in celebrating the reopening of the pub in the area where he lives.

There have been times when the Government have not been able to extend licensing hours for significant occasions, because the required secondary legislation is subject to the affirmative procedure, which means that both Houses of Parliament need to approve the measure following a debate. As such, if Parliament is in recess, it is simply not possible to introduce such measures. A recent instance of that was when the Lionesses reached the final of the world cup in August 2023, during a parliamentary recess. That meant it was not possible for the Government to extend the hours for that momentous match. As a result, pubs and hospitality venues missed out on an historic and unforgettable occasion.

With the continued sporting success of our national teams on the world stage, my hope is that we will see more occasions in the near future where the need for such measures arises, including such events as the upcoming FIFA men’s world cup in 2026 in North America, the 2027 rugby world cup in Australia, the FIFA women’s world cup in 2027 in Brazil, and the International Cricket Council T20 world cup in 2026 in India and Sri Lanka. In the interests of parliamentary sportsmanship, we all want to see successes for our Scottish and Northern Irish teams, too.

I am sure that Members across the House will recognise the tough hand that the pubs and hospitality sector has been dealt over recent years. At the end of July 2024, the total number of licensed premises in Britain was just 99,000, some 45,000 of which were pubs. The number of licensed premises has plummeted by 30% over the past 20 years, and we have lost 25% of pubs since 2003. We should use our role as parliamentarians in this place, and the opportunities that affords us, to speak on behalf of the industry, and it is for that reason that I believe it is important that we are here today. Hospitality is crucial for not only local economies, but local opportunity. The sector supports more than 1 million jobs and provides great career opportunities and flexible working in all parts of the UK. I know from first-hand experience that somebody can go from washing pots to running the place.

I take this opportunity to address any concerns that Members may have about any reduction in parliamentary scrutiny. In the past, these orders have attracted no controversy or dissent, and I expect that to remain the case. Indeed, it is hard to imagine any hon. Members objecting to an extension of licensing hours for, say, a royal wedding. For that reason, I believe that the negative resolution procedure is entirely appropriate. Let me be clear that this Bill does not take away the right to seek a debate. If any Members of the House or the other place objected to a certain extension, they would still have the ability to pray against it.

I also reassure the House that this amendment to the parliamentary process is the only change that this Bill seeks to make. It does not change the fundamental mechanics of how licensing hours extensions operate and are decided on. They will still be determined on a case-by-case basis by the Secretary of State and will be introduced only if the event in question is

“an occasion of exceptional international, national, or local significance”.

The word “exceptional” is important here. The Bill also does not alter the process for temporary event notices.

I believe that the Bill speaks for itself. It is a small amendment to the Licensing Act that will have a big effect by allowing for more efficient use of Parliament’s valuable time. It is a simple but significant measure, and I am grateful to all colleagues for their support today and in the lead-up to this debate. Let us raise a glass to our pubs and hospitality industry. I commend the Bill to the House.

Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse

Roger Gale Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend is right that we need to ensure proper follow-up where there are recommendations. There have been over 500 different recommendations, predominantly around child sexual exploitation, with many more around child sexual abuse much more widely. There is currently not a proper process to be able to follow them up. That is one of the reasons why the independent inquiry talked about strengthening child protection arrangements through, for example, a child protection authority and having stronger arrangements in that way. It is also one of the reasons why we have said that we need a new performance framework for policing to be able to have proper follow-up.

Obviously, we have already had a statutory seven-year inquiry into child sexual abuse and a statutory two-year investigation into child sexual exploitation and grooming gangs. Those reports came out with really important recommendations, but one of the things that they identified was that there simply was not enough evidence or data on the gangs in particular to be able to do further work and further investigations. That is why the next step must be to have the rapid national audit that we have asked Baroness Casey to undertake to get a much more extensive assessment of the prevalence and nature of child sexual exploitation across the country.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

The right hon. Lady will know that I would not for one moment question her integrity, and certainly not her intent. However, I am perplexed by the methodology. Baroness Casey has one or two other things on her plate at the moment, but if she is able to deliver this audit in three months, that can only be a good thing. In her statement, she said that Tom Crowther has agreed to work with the Government to develop a new framework for victim-centred locally led inquiries where they are needed—five pilot schemes. That in itself will take time, and it is kicking the can down the road.

We all know that the Select Committees of this House can take evidence, generate a report and publish it in short order. It does not have to take seven years—it can take less than seven months. Having heard everything that the right hon. Lady has said, I cannot for the life of me understand why she is so resistant, first, to a broad-based national inquiry rather than a narrow five-town inquiry and, secondly, to statutory measures that will allow that inquiry to compel witnesses and evidence.

[Yvette Cooper]

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the importance of any independent inquiry is the independence of the decisions made by the chair about how it should be pursued. The inquiry led by Baroness Jay into child sexual abuse took seven years—that was a decision made independently by Baroness Jay and the panel. They took evidence from 7,000 victims right across the country. They pursued detailed investigations in different areas, including into churches, religious organisations, residential homes and schools. The inquiry into child sexual exploitation and grooming gangs on our streets took two years.

First, we want a rapid audit that fills the gaps that were left by the independent inquiry, such as on the scale and characteristics of child sexual exploitation across the country. That work will rightly be done by Baroness Casey. Secondly, we want more police investigations under way, including the victims’ right to review. Thirdly, we want Tom Crowther to be able to work with other areas where there are local failings and problems, to pursue successful local inquiries such as Telford, to get to the heart of local failures and make sure that there is accountability.