Devolved Authorities: Use of Resources

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

The UK Government primarily use the Barnett formula to calculate the devolved Governments’ block grant funding. This funding is not ring-fenced, given the devolved Governments’ full flexibility to allocate it across devolved areas according to their own priorities and local circumstances. The devolved Governments are accountable to their parliamentary legislatures and, ultimately, their voters for their decisions. The recent settlement is 20% more funding than equivalent UK government spending in other areas of the UK. These settlements are the largest in real terms since devolution, totalling £86 billion. This Government are securing Britain’s future through the plan for change, which is delivering security and renewal by kick-starting economic growth to put more money into working people’s pockets and the NHS and to secure our borders.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

I am grateful to the Minister for a helpful response, but is he aware that the Supreme Court case on the definition of gender is just the latest of 10 court cases which the SNP Scottish Government have taken there, costing over £7 billion? Surely something can be done to make sure that they spend UK taxpayers’ money on things such as the city growth deals and replacing the Grenfell-style cladding on the 5,000 premises in Scotland where people’s lives are still in danger.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. I want to focus on the big issue that is confronting this country—whether it is Ireland, Scotland, Wales or England—which is growth. My noble friend pointed out that the city region and growth deals are funded by the UK Government. The Scottish Government are receiving £119 million in 2025-26 for city and growth deals. The Government confirmed at the Autumn Budget that investment in the Argyll and Bute growth deal will continue to be available and will be supported by a rigorous value-for-money assessment as part of the review. The £25 million Argyll and Bute growth deal was signed in March 2025. There are other elements to growth in Scotland: one of the main ones is that GB Energy will be based in Aberdeen.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I welcome the statement made by the Minister that it is indeed for the devolved authorities to spend the money that they receive in accordance with their own priorities. He mentioned the Barnett formula; will he admit that whereas it may be working very well for Scotland, it is not working well for Wales, and it certainly needs to be reconsidered? Will the Government please address that?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

Because of the Barnett formula, Wales receives 15% more than the average for the rest of the UK. We also need to point out some of the advantages of the Welsh and UK Governments working together. Under the AI opportunities action plan, Vantage Data Centers, which is working to build one of Europe’s largest data centre campuses in Wales, announced plans to invest £12 billion, providing 11,000 jobs across Wales. There are also expected benefits in direct payments for 150,000 workers in Wales through the minimum wage rise. There are 2.1 million people in Wales who will benefit from the extension of the 5p cut in fuel duty.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, will the noble Lord—I appreciate he is new to his post—take time to read the Select Committee of this House’s report on the Barnett formula? From that he will find that Wales is indeed badly treated, and no Government have actually done anything about it. On the main point of the Question, which is the right of devolved Administrations to spend the money that is allocated to them under the formula as they choose, that is an important part of devolution, which the noble Lord was very keen on. Had it not been for that, the Scottish Government would not have been able to waste tens of millions of pounds on ferries that do not work—money which would otherwise have been spent on the health service.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

The Barnett formula does succeed in delivering for our nations around the country. It is fair to say also that the settlement this year is the largest that has been delivered since devolution.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, since the establishment of the Scottish Parliament, the proportion of income raised from taxes on Scottish citizens has risen from under 10% to around 40%. The Scottish Finance and Public Administration Committee has agreed that accountability and scrutiny need to be improved. I suggest that it might be to great mutual benefit if the Public Accounts Committee in the Commons and the Constitution Committee in this House reach out to relevant committees in the Scottish Parliament and the other devolved assemblies to see how they can improve financial scrutiny and accountability across all our parliaments, because none of it is as good as it should be.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. I think there is nothing wrong and probably everything right with parliaments across the UK working together to deliver better for their citizens. I think that is probably a welcome suggestion.

[Lord Inglewood (CB)]

My Lords, following the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, about Wales being short-changed by the Barnett formula, is it not also the case that the north of England is in the same way?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question because it gives me the opportunity to talk about the excellent work that the Labour Mayor of the North East is doing, in the form of Kim McGuinness. At the centre of her project for the north-east are growth, delivering better public services and ensuring that the growth that happens in this country and our region where I belong is there for all the people. I lived through the 1980s. I know what happened to areas such as the Durham coalfield. Now that the region is united to speak up as one, that can be only for the benefit of all the people who live there.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, achieving value for money ought to be a priority for any Government, whether national, regional or local, especially a Government committed to growth. So I come back to the point mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: do the Government consider that the SNP Scottish Government’s actions on trans rights represented a good use of taxpayers’ money?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I appreciate the question that the noble Baroness has asked, but I think that the one thing that should focus our minds, besides the outcome of what the Supreme Court said, is what the Scottish Government should do, and we all should be doing, in the best interests of all the Scottish people. That must be to secure growth to make sure that the support that we have for our cities, our people and the NHS is for all the people in Scotland. It would be great to see the Scottish Government and the UK Government work closely together to ensure that that happens.

[Lord Jones of Penybont (Lab)]

My Lords, as the former head of a devolved Government, at a time when co-operation between Governments across this island was rare and when a UK Government towards the end of their life became very fond of imposition through the UK Subsidy Control Act and the UK Internal Market Act, I welcome the new relationship between London and Cardiff. With that in mind, will the Minister outline what the UK Government are doing, working with the Welsh Government, to deliver for the people of Wales?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. I have already mentioned some of the things that the Labour Government have done, but two areas that might be of interest to the House are what is happening in Port Talbot, and the electric arc furnaces. In the Autumn Budget 2024, the UK Government confirmed £80 million funding for the Port Talbot transition board. The funding will support local businesses that are heavily reliant on Tata Steel, and their primary customers. On 11 September last year, this Government announced that they had agreed an improved deal with Tata Steel towards the transformation of Port Talbot steelworks. This improved deal secures 5,000 jobs, ensures that workers have enhanced support during the transition period and delivers a 1.5% reduction in the UK’s greenhouse emissions.

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, I run a charity in Scotland, and if somebody gave me £119 million, I would be expected to account for how I spent that money. So, going back to the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, can the Government do anything that does not interfere with how the devolved Administrations choose to spend their money but requires them to report transparently on what it is they have spent it on?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

The UK Government and the Scottish Government need to work closely together on this issue. Obviously, we cannot get involved in how devolved Barnett money is being used, but there is ring-fenced money that has been allocated to Scotland, I think somewhere in the region of £119 million, and we need to ensure that it is spent properly, at the appropriate time, and gives value for money.

Child Trust Fund Accounts

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Wednesday 19th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name and offer a very warm welcome to my noble friend, who is making his first appearance at the Dispatch Box.

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend. The Government have extensive engagements with providers, industry and other stakeholders. HMRC is an active participant in the industry-led Child Trust Fund Maturity Working Group, which meets quarterly and discusses how individuals can be encouraged to claim their matured funds, and any issues the industry is facing. Treasury officials have also recently met with industry stakeholders to discuss issues relating to child trust fund access.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend and realise that it is really difficult answering for the Treasury these days. We have had a very successful, but in one way fruitless, effort across this House. We have been supporting many charities, including Support SEND Kids, and Andrew Turner’s campaign—he is in the Chamber today. I thank everybody for that. Some 780,000 accounts have not yet been accessed, and in up to 80,000 of those cases, the young people are said to have incapacity. Somehow, we have to unlock these accounts, and we have to stop the Court of Protection blocking this. We have to ensure that financial institutions that are not playing the game do so. In the end, we need the support of the Department of Justice, the Department of Work and Pensions and the Treasury. My noble friend is new, and he can come at this fresh: give them a good kick for us, will you?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

The Government are committed to reuniting all young adults with their child trust funds. HMRC has worked closely with child trust fund providers to encourage young people to track down their accounts. It has also issued a range of communications, including social media posts, and engaged influencers, who have greater visibility amongst young adults, and it continues to explore additional ways of communication. A free HMRC online tracking facility is also available. At the moment, the number of unclaimed matured accounts stands at 670,00.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the Department for Work and Pensions has a streamlined process by which parents of a child with disability can access funds from the DWP—funds far higher than the average £3,000 in a trust fund account. Why cannot that process be used, instead of the cumbersome Court of Protection process?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

We know that there are real difficulties with this, and cross-departmental activities are taking place to try to resolve the problem. I understand from the courts that the Government are committed to bearing down on the outstanding caseload left by the previous Government, and the challenges we face in doing so are significant. As a crucial first step, we are funding another 108,500 sitting days in the courts this financial year, which is the highest level we have had for a decade.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, in cases where a parent or guardian were unable to set up an account for their child, the Government opened a savings account on the child’s behalf. Can the Minister give me an assurance that all these children, for whom HMRC must have both contact details and legal authority, have been reached and are not part of the group who are unaware of the funds they have available?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

All young people who have trust funds are contacted at the age of 17, and those who do not respond will be continually contacted. Secondly, the funds available to them will be available for ever or until, potentially, things change; but at the moment, there is no reason why that should happen. Those funds will be there for as long as they need to be, before they are drawn down by the child. The one thing to remember is the funds not having been accessed does not mean that the person who can access them does not know they are there.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

I declare an interest as a former chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Equitable Friendly Society, which traded as the Children’s Mutual. Are the Government getting full co-operation from the Association of Friendly Societies and some of the other providers? If they are not, I would be more than willing to try my very best to help to find an answer to this difficult problem.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

We are working across departments and with all the providers to try to ensure that access is gained for people who have child trust funds. I am not quite sure what kind of relationship and communication we have with friendly societies, but I will make sure that someone writes to the noble Lord to let him know.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I too very much welcome the noble Lord, Lord Wilson of Sedgefield, to his place. There is a problem, as he said, so can he say whether he has formally consulted, or intends to, the financial institutions or the child trust fund providers on the feasibility of simplifying the process for young people accessing their funds? What steps might he take to ensure that they are more aware of the child trust fund accounts—perhaps using social media and so on—so that we communicate this opportunity for people to pick up these funds, which are not being claimed, as the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, explained?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

As of 5 April 2024, some 2.5 million child trust funds accounts and 670,000 mature child trust fund accounts had not been claimed. The Government recognise the importance of ensuring that we marry up young people with those accounts. HMRC is working very closely with opinion-formers and stakeholders to try to ensure that this group is reached. This includes, for example, working closely with UCAS, joining with younger influencers who discuss personal finances online, and using traditional media and HMRC’s own social media channels to target young people to ensure that they know the trust funds exist.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I very much support my noble friend in his efforts, but as there do not seem to be any more questions on that subject, I will broaden it out to another of the Treasury’s responsibilities for children. I realise that my noble friend may not be able to answer this now, but is there any evidence of the impact of the high-income charge, introduced by the previous Government, on the take-up of child benefit? Child benefit is a crucial source of secure income for parents.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that question, and she is absolutely right: it is not an area I know very much about. I will get the department to write to her with the answer she requires.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 22nd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I think everybody knows my position; I genuinely believe that any deal should go back to the people for confirmation. They have the right to compare the results of any negotiations between the UK and the EU with the promises made by the now Prime Minister and other leaders of the leave campaign back in 2016, because in 2016 there was a vote to leave, but it was not a vote on how to leave. Brexit started with a referendum and any Brexit deal should therefore be confirmed or rejected by a referendum. This started with the people, and it should end with the people.

There are some who raise the political temperature by using the language of “the people versus Parliament”, but it is those who do not want this deal to go back to the people for a final say who are being disingenuous and cynical when they use such language. There are dozens of parliamentarians in this House who want to include the people in the final decision. They are the ones who are on the side of the people, not those who use the pitch of “the people against Parliament”. But as my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) said during the debate on Saturday, the Government say they are acting on the will of the people. We now have two negotiated withdrawal agreements and the threat of no deal. It seem that, for some, the will of the people takes almost as many forms as there are forms of Brexit.

Why not ask the people once again in a confirmatory and binding vote whether they still want to go ahead? Whatever agreement we achieve should go to the people. If they want to go ahead with Brexit on that basis, it should be implemented and that should be the end of it—no third referendum and no neverendum.

The next tactic deployed by right hon. and hon. Members supporting this agreement is to say, “Let’s just get on with it. People are sick of the process; they are tired of it.” I think we all share that view, but you do not give up on an issue of this magnitude because you are tired—you keep going until you get it right. Three days for debate on this withdrawal agreement is therefore outrageous.

As an example of people’s attitudes, on Saturday the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) said that people, metaphorically speaking, were dying for a decision on Brexit. I agree, so let them make the decision. I say to my constituents that I will vote for a deal as long as it goes back to them to confirm whether they want to go ahead with it or not. I think that is fair. I do not want the deal to get through this House and be implemented without their agreement, because for them Brexit will not be over. We do not know its impact; their jobs will be under threat; and the deal negotiated is not as good as the one we have now. We might try to reinvent the wheel, but we will find out that it is not as round as the original.

Therefore, as I have said, we need to get this over in the right way. We cannot do that if we do not even have access to an economic assessment of the basis of this deal. That is very important when one in five of the people who work in one’s constituency work in manufacturing. I genuinely believe that if we do not put this back to the people, we will live to regret it as a democratic institution and as a country. I do not want the deal to get through this House and be implemented without the people agreeing one way or the other, only to find out that for them Brexit is not over.

Early Parliamentary General Election (No. 2)

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

First, I am sorry to see you go, Mr Speaker, because you have stood up for Back Benchers in the past 10 years, and you have been a great respecter of the Chamber. I wish you and your family all the best for the future.

I do not intend to speak for long, but suffice it to say that I agree with the Prime Minister. He uses the same language as me when he says, “Put it to the people”. He considers that the people should be engaged in the final say, so let them have it in a confirmatory ballot on the issue of Brexit in a people’s vote. It is wrong to conflate Brexit, which is a decision for a generation, with a general election campaign, which is meant to decide a programme of government for a maximum of five years. I think the Prime Minister knows that.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Phil Wilson]

No, I am not going to speak for long.

The Prime Minister has been found out. It is about eight weeks to 31 October, but he wants to take up the next four or five weeks with electioneering, rather than going to look for a deal. I have some words of advice for him: go to Brussels, and begin to negotiate. Bring back the deal that you have promised the country, and put it to the House. I will help to facilitate its passage through Parliament, as long as it is put to the British people so that they can decide whether they want to go ahead with it or stay in the EU in a confirmatory ballot.

The Prime Minister has lost the Father of the House, Winston Churchill’s grandson and his own brother. I understand that in the past few days the Duke of Wellington has left the Conservative party. The Prime Minister has met his Waterloo. The Conservative party can change its mind on no deal, but it refuses to allow the British people to do the same on Brexit. They need to have a final say on Brexit. After three and a half years, on the will of the people and the generational decision of Brexit, they have the right to be asked again in the light of the fact that this Government are hellbent on moving towards the EU exit door without a deal. The Government will say it would be a betrayal of Brexit and the British people if we do not deliver on Brexit. I will tell you what is a betrayal of trust: leaving the EU without a deal and not telling the British people that it is not a clean break. Like any Brexit deal, but even more so in the event of no deal, it will lead to years of uncertainty and economic woes for the majority of the people in this country, including unemployment. But of course the main pursuers of Brexit are not the ones who will be losing their jobs.

We need to resolve Brexit with the confirmation of the British people. That is how it began in 2016, and that is how it should be brought to a conclusion. The people have the right to compare the facts today with what was promised to them three and a half years ago. Brexit started with the people and it should end with the people. Prime Minister, resolve Brexit first and then let us have a general election. I will not be supporting the motion tonight.

Leaving the European Union

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My message has been consistent. It is that we have been working for their interests as well as those of EU citizens living in the UK. That is why I was pleased that we achieved the reciprocity in the withdrawal agreement—it is an important part of the withdrawal agreement and therefore of the withdrawal agreement Bill. We continue to work with the other 27 member states to ensure they can confirm that in a no-deal situation—as I say, that remains the legal default—they would also protect the rights of British citizens living in those 27 member states.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

This is the Prime Minister’s deal. Others in the House want to leave on WTO rules; some want Norway plus; some common market 2.0; others Canada plus—the list goes on and on. Which option does she think the people voted for in 2016, and how can the Government know that their definition of Brexit is the option people voted for without asking them?

European Council

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I want to be able to deliver Brexit, and to do it within the extension we have been given to 22 May. Any further extension would require us to stand in European parliamentary elections. As I said earlier, I think people would ask what on earth we were doing if, having voted nearly three years ago to leave the European Union, they were then asked to elect Members to the European Parliament. I think they would say that we were failing to deliver on their vote, and I believe we have a duty to do that.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I genuinely believe that people have the right to compare any Brexit deal with the promises that were made in 2016. It is their right to want the final say in this process. I know how much work the Prime Minister is doing to get her deal across the line and, in the spirit of compromise, I would help to facilitate the passage of her deal, indeed any deal, so long as it goes back to the British people. May I ask her to meet me and my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) to discuss the compromise we think is the way out of this? Whatever the result of that ballot, we will not bring this country together until we hold it.

[The Prime Minister]

I say to the hon. Gentleman, as I have indicated to the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and others, that I am happy to meet Members of the House to discuss these matters. I know that the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union has already met him and talked about this issue. I continue to have the reservations and concerns I have expressed previously in relation to these matters of a confirmatory vote, but, as I have said, I am happy to meet hon. Members.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Wednesday 20th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I join my right hon. and learned Friend in paying tribute to Steve Dymond. The contaminated blood scandal was an appalling tragedy that should never have happened, and it is vital that the victims who have suffered so much and their families get the answers and justice they deserve, for which, as we all know, they have waited decades. I am assured by the Department of Health and Social Care that it has already sent thousands of documents to the inquiry and will send more when necessary, but we are committed to being open and transparent with the inquiry and have waived the usual legal privileges to assist the process. It is important that the inquiry is able to get to the truth.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

Q8. Prime Minister, Conservative Governments have taken £6 billion out of the north-east since 2010. Can we have it back, please?

[The Prime Minister]

This is a Government who are ensuring that we are working across the whole country and that we are delivering an economy for everyone across the whole country. The hon. Gentleman talks about billions of pounds in relation to the north, but he may just want to reflect on the £13 billion being put into transport in the north of this country.

European Council

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Many people who voted to leave in the referendum in 2016 would say exactly that: they knew what they were voting for; they voted for what they believed was right for this country; and they want a Government who deliver that.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I have asked the Prime Minister before whether her deal is better than the one we have now and she cannot give a straight answer, because I think she knows the answer is no. What undermines the integrity of our democracy, Prime Minister, is to ask—eventually—Members of this House to knowingly vote for something that will make their constituents poorer; it is not those in this House who want the people to have the final say on whether they actually wanted that to happen in the first place. Prime Minister, is your deal better than the one we have now? If it is, can we have the vote on the meaningful vote this week?

[The Prime Minister]

I have set out when the meaningful vote will take place. The hon. Gentleman again referenced people being poorer under this deal than they are today. They are not going to be poorer under this deal than they are today. The economic analysis is very clear about this, and it is clear that the best deal—the best approach that delivers on the referendum and protects jobs and the economy—is the deal.

Leaving the EU

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has said previously that this country’s best days are ahead. Is that because of the deal she has negotiated with the EU, and does she think it better than the one we have now?

[The Prime Minister]

I have said that I believe that it is a good deal for the United Kingdom and that our best days lie ahead of us. I believe that because of the talents of our people, our innovation and decisions that this Government have taken to ensure a balanced approach to our economy.

EU Exit Negotiations

Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, we will be leaving the EU on 29 March 2019; that is a set date and I am determined that we will deliver on that whatever happens in between. On the backstop question, as I have said, neither side wants the backstop arrangement to be operated, but if it was, it is no more than a temporary construct. There are various aspects to this, and I will draw my hon. Friend’s attention to one or two of them. First, it is not possible on the legal basis of article 50, under which this withdrawal agreement is set, for it to set a permanent relationship for the future. That is explicitly referred to in the withdrawal agreement: it does not establish a permanent relationship. That is inherent in the operation of the article 50 legal base. I also say to my hon. Friend that one of the things we have got removed from this protocol is the idea that was there at one stage that if we had moved on to the future relationship and the British Government chose to change that future relationship, the backstop could be reinserted; it cannot be—once it is superseded, it cannot be revived.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on proving yet again that we cannot square the wheel. Can she say, hand on heart, whether she believes that what she has negotiated is better than the deal we have now?

[The Prime Minister]

I firmly believe that this country’s best days are ahead of us. We will get a good deal with the European Union and take advantage of our independence outside the EU with our trade deals around the rest of the world.