House of Lords Reform: Lord Speaker’s Committee

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the report of the Lord Speaker’s Committee on reform of the House of Lords.

It is a pleasure to serve under your stewardship, Mr Howarth, for what I hope will be a scintillating debate. I say at the outset that none of what I am about to say should be taken as a slight or criticism on any individual Member of the upper House. I have, in my limited time in this place, worked with many of them in all-party groups and on various campaigns where we share the same objectives, and I have found them, to a man and woman, to be people of integrity and ability and to exude a commitment to public service.

That aside, the institution of the House of Lords is fast becoming a national embarrassment. It is something we urgently need to address. The House of Lords is the largest legislative assembly anywhere in the world, with the sole exception of the People’s Republic of China. It is an institution where no one is elected by the wider citizenry, and it is accountable to no one. It is staggeringly unrepresentative of the population at large: only 26% of its Members are women; 44% of its Members live in London and the south-east of England; and 56% of its Members are older than 70 years of age. That is an institution that in no way reflects contemporary society. It is also an expensive institution, costing almost £100 million for every year that it operates, £20 million of which goes on the expenses and stipends of the Members who serve in that Chamber.

We are fast approaching a situation where the legitimacy and credibility of the House of Lords will be in crisis. Unless we do something about it, that crisis of credibility will extend to us as well by implication.

The Parliament Act 1911 first established that the House of Commons, the elected Chamber of this Parliament, should have primacy over the House of Lords. The preamble of that Act noted that the intention was to introduce

“a Second Chamber constituted on a popular instead of hereditary basis, but such substitution cannot be immediately brought into operation”.

For the 106 years since the passage of that Act, we have argued about how to make the upper House a popular and democratic institution. For most of that time, the argument has been led by this Chamber—elected Members representing the people—which has argued for shining the flashlight of democracy into the darker recesses of our Parliament. What we have today, however, is something quite remarkable. We have a situation where the Government of the day have said publicly that they will not countenance any reform of the upper House; they do not have the time or inclination to consider those arguments.

In frustration, Members of the upper House themselves have got together to beg the case for reform. That is a remarkable volte-face from the arguments we have had for over 100 years. I hope that the Minister, when he concludes, feels just the slightest sense of embarrassment at the situation. Here we are contemplating reform of the House of Lords not because of any motion or suggestion from an elected Member of the House of Commons but because the House of Lords is asking us to take action to try to salvage its credibility and reform its institution.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate and on his contribution. Does he not think that one of the main reasons why many Members of the House of Commons are reluctant to push reform of the House of Lords is that they want to end up there? They see it is quite a cushy retirement number, rather than seeing any practical function that a second Chamber might offer. We should be proud of the Scottish National party’s long-standing tradition of not taking seats in the House of Lords.

[Tommy Sheppard]

I agree. It is inconsistent for someone to say they wish to abolish an institution but then prop it up by serving in it and trying to enhance its credibility. That, however, is a political contradiction that others will have to wrestle with. I am glad to say it is not one my own party faces.

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[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I am grateful to have caught your eye. I was not originally on the list of speakers, but the spirit has moved me—in fact, the Spirit rover, which has landed on Mars. We heard an eloquent speech from my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard), who made the case for the red planet to be represented on the red Benches. There is a great tradition of noble Lords taking their seats as a result of colonial expeditions or military victories overseas, so when humanity colonises Mars, perhaps we will see Lord Sheppard of Olympus Mons. Indeed, if artificial intelligence progresses at its current rate, we will see—

[Mr George Howarth (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is making a fascinating analogy that he picked up from his colleague, but I hope he will not take it too far. We do not yet consider the House of Lords to be in outer space.

[Patrick Grady]

Thank you, Mr Howarth. I think the point is made—the point being that my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East would not take his seat even if he led a colonial expedition, because SNP members do not take their seats in the House of Lords.

I want to offer a couple of reflections on why I agree with the cases being made for significant and rapid reform. A number of Members have spoken about the contribution that Members of the Lords make to all-party parliamentary groups and so on, with their vast experience. I agree. I have met many learned and distinguished Members on those groups, but a lot of that happens behind the scenes, outwith the scrutiny and shining light of the main activities in the Chamber. To me, there is an issue with that, because it enhances in some ways the lack of accountability.

Many of us, as Members, find that we have massive competing pressures on our time. Our first loyalty, of course, is to our constituents—the people who put us here. I often find myself leaving all-party groups or whatever else it might be because there are important constituency matters to attend to or matters to attend to in the Chamber or here in Westminster Hall. However, Members of the House of Lords can just take their time over these things.

There is an insidious back-room politics that is not seen. The system of lobbying while voting in the Lobby, as we were doing last night for many hours, also goes on in the House of Lords. People cannot watch that on television, but Lords can nobble noble Ministers and all the rest of it. We have to bear that in mind as part of the accountability question.

The key thing I want to ask the Minister about is article 3 of protocol 1 to the European convention on human rights, which is on the right to freedom of elections. It states:

“The High Contracting Parties undertake to hold free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot, under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature.”

My question to the UK Government is: are they satisfied that we meet that criteria? Are we compliant with our obligations under the ECHR? The fact remains, as has been ably demonstrated by Members across the Chamber today, that the vast majority of legislators in this country are not elected. It is no wonder that some Brexiteers are so desperate to get out of the EU and the ECHR. I think they can see this coming. I have heard it mocked as conspiracy theories by the Brexiteers, but I think they are well aware that if we did somehow try to get back into the European Union after Brexit, we would be incompatible with the requirements of that charter. That is the significant question I put to the Minister.

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Delyn (David Hanson) on his private Member’s Bill. I notice that it is fourth or fifth on the Order Paper for that day, which is sadly yet another corruption and defect of the system we have here. The chances of him airing the Bill’s Second Reading are incredibly slim, but I hope the Government will see the sense of it and the opportunity it presents to bring forward reform of the House of Lords.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Skidmore]

Following on from my key point about consensus, the history of Lords reform shows us that if proposals are to be effective and stand any chance of succeeding, they will need to command a consensus across the House of Lords. The Government want to listen closely to what peers have to say in response to the report. I believe that before the Government set out their position, it is important to test the mood of the House of Lords on the proposals to see whether a consensus will emerge.

On the question asked by the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich, the Government will make time for a debate in the Lords, and I can say today that it will take place before Christmas. I hope this debate provides material for the Lords to consider. It has been incredibly timely, given that the Lords will debate this issue in the other place before Christmas. The Government look forward to that debate.

[Patrick Grady]

I apologise if I missed this, but I do not think I heard the Minister answer my question about the compatibility with the European convention on human rights. If that is complicated and he wants to write to me, I will be happy to receive a letter.

[Chris Skidmore]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for flagging up the point he raised, because it was remiss of me not to touch on that detail. The House of Lords fulfils its constitutional position in scrutinising legislation and holding the Government to account, but it remains subordinate to the will of the Commons, whose Members are democratically elected. It is important that that prevails, but on his point about the legal framework in relation to the ECHR, I am happy to write to him. I assure him that he will receive a detailed letter from me setting out the Government’s answer to the finer points of his question.

Oral Answers to Questions

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Hinds]

The key point is that an equality impact assessment is not just a document; it is an entire way of thinking and working and it runs throughout these processes. I can confirm that we have been absolutely compliant with our duties under the Equality Act 2010, as we should be.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

2. What his policy is on devolving further powers to Scotland as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU; and if he will make a statement.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

8. What his policy is on devolving further powers to Scotland as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)]

We are in agreement with the devolved Administrations that common frameworks will be necessary in some areas but, as I have made it clear, we expect that there will be a significant increase in the decision-making power of each devolved Administration.

[Patrick Grady]

We hear about this powers bonanza all the time, but the Prime Minister was unable to give us details on Monday, and it seems that the Secretary of State was unable to do so yesterday at the Scottish Affairs Committee. Let us give him another opportunity: can he name one power that will definitely come to the Scottish Parliament as a result of Brexit?

[David Mundell]

We hear repeatedly from the Scottish National Benches about engagement with the Scottish Government, and this engagement will be with the Scottish Government. That is where the discussions are going on in relation to the transfer of powers. I am absolutely certain that, at the end of this process, the Scottish Parliament will have more powers and responsibilities than it does right now.

European Council

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and this is where the Labour party gets it absolutely wrong; it thinks it should be signing up to any deal, across the whole board, regardless of the price and regardless of the conditions applied by the European Union.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

Was the Prime Minister able to share any of the perspectives of the devolved Administrations with the other Governments at the summit, particularly the concerns around the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill? Given that the Secretary of State for Scotland has promised a powers “bonanza” for Holyrood, I wonder whether she could name today just one power that will definitely be devolved to Holyrood after Brexit.

[The Prime Minister]

Don’t worry, we will be making it clear where we expect further devolution to take place. The hon. Gentleman asks whether I discussed the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill with the European Council, and I have to say that that Bill is a matter for this Parliament and it is this Parliament that will decide on it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. The hurricanes have been devastating, and I have seen their effect across our overseas territory. I can absolutely give the House an assurance that we are not just supporting the overseas territories; we are now working with them on the recovery and the rebuilding efforts, in addition to the relief efforts.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

What progress is being made on the commitment that the Government made at the world humanitarian summit last year to increase spending on disaster risk reduction? How is that being implemented and in what countries is disaster risk reduction spending increasing?

[Priti Patel]

The hon. Gentleman is right to point that out in terms of the grand bargain and the humanitarian work that Britain leads on around the world. He asks about progress. I can let the House know that enormous progress has been made directly with the humanitarian agencies that we work with, through the funding that we are putting in place. We are making sure that the grand bargain commitments are part of the funding performance that we now put in place with regard to the reform agenda.

Grenfell Tower Fire Inquiry

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Wednesday 12th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Joanna Cherry]

As has been said by a colleague from a sedentary position, that was not what I said. This is not litigation; it is a public inquiry. All I am saying is that the Government have already accepted that a panel of advisers is required. The point I am making is actually quite simple: the panel of advisers should be of suitable expertise and diversity to inspire confidence.

Another thing we need to do to ensure justice is done is to make sure that not only victims but tenants’ groups are given public funding for independent and separate legal representation sufficient to enable them to have a voice equal to that of local and national Government and the private management company. This is a simple matter of human rights and equality of arms, and I was pleased that, when I asked the Prime Minister about this on 22 June, she said that, although the way in which the inquiry is conducted is ultimately a matter for the chair, for

“those who require legal representation, that will be funded by the Government”

and that she was not going to

“set any limits in relation to the types of body or the individuals for whom”—[Official Report, 22 June 2017; Vol. 626, c. 186-87]—

funding would be available. I welcome what she said, because although funding and proper representation are matters for the inquiry, the inquiry can work well only within the constraints imposed on it by the Treasury. If the tenants’ groups are not represented in this inquiry, I fear that justice will not be seen to be done.

Finally, before I say something about the position of the devolved Administrations, which the Minister alluded to, I want to turn briefly to question of the inquiry’s recommendations being properly implemented. It is vital that this House is empowered to make sure that the recommendations are implemented promptly, because important recommendations are not always implemented promptly. We have already heard about the recommendations after the Lakanal House fire. After a tower block fire in Irvine, in Scotland, in 1999—just before devolution—a Select Committee of this House recommended that all cladding on high-rise dwellings should be non-combustible. Subsequent to devolution, that report was taken seriously by Scottish housing authorities, and building regulations in Scotland were duly amended in 2005. All new high-rise domestic buildings in Scotland are therefore fitted with non-combustible cladding, or a cladding system that meets stringent fire tests, and with sprinklers. The same recommendation was seen as optional south of the border, and it appears now that that has had tragic consequences. So it is vital that this House finds a way to make sure that the inquiry’s recommendations are properly implemented.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I join the tributes that have been paid to the victims and the first responders. Many people in Scotland, including in my constituency, still live in tower blocks. Despite the reassurances my hon. and learned Friend has provided, they will nevertheless be looking to the recommendations that come from the inquiry’s report. Does she agree that there will be lessons to be learned across the UK and that it is important that assurances are provided not just to the constituents she mentioned earlier but particularly to people who continue to live in tower blocks?

[Joanna Cherry]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I have many tower blocks in my constituency, and I was pleased that the City of Edinburgh Council, in very early course, had all elected representatives in to tell us what investigative steps it was taking to make sure these high-rise blocks were safe.

As I have indicated, Scottish building standards are devolved, and the Scottish Government have already set up a ministerial working group to make sure that our buildings are up to scratch and that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is satisfied with the standards in all local buildings. I am pleased to say that all 32 local authorities in Scotland have been able to confirm that none of the high-rise domestic properties they own use the type of cladding we understand was used on Grenfell Tower. However, the Scottish Government are not being complacent, and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service will continue to carry out additional operational assurance visits to high-rise buildings. The Scottish Government will continue to monitor the situation in Scotland, gathering information from local authorities and taking a proactive and safety-first approach to this issue while we await information from the investigation into the fire in London.

The point I have sought to make in my contribution is that the way this inquiry is set up—the framing of the terms of reference, and the way in which the expert panel that will advise the chair is made up—and the funding that is made available to all relevant participants are vital for justice to be seen to be done, and we cannot cut corners on any of those things. There is widespread concern across the United Kingdom about the circumstances surrounding this fire, and all our constituents, but particularly the people local to this fire, need to be satisfied that justice is done and seen to be done.

European Council

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We are certainly willing to consider legislation; this matter is so important. I believe that, with the international pressure and co-operation that we are now building, we will be able to put pressure on the tech companies such that they do this themselves, but we should not rule any option out.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I do not know whether it is in order to blow a raspberry in this House, but that was the reaction of constituents—EU nationals—whom I met at the Partick language hub in my constituency on Saturday, when they heard about the reports of this deal. I wonder how many EU nationals the Prime Minister met or consulted in drawing up the proposal she has presented today.

[The Prime Minister]

I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that, like other Members of the House, I have met people in my constituency who are employers of EU nationals concerned about this and people who are EU nationals who are concerned about their position. The detail had not been published at the weekend, but I suggest that he take the detail to his constituents and enable them to see for themselves the fair and serious offer we are making.

Debate on the Address

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg). I pretty much agreed with the first four minutes of his speech, and with the final two minutes of it. In all honesty, that is six minutes more than I usually agree with him for.

It is a real honour and I am really proud to have been re-elected to serve the constituency of Kilmarnock and Loudoun, and I pledge to work as hard as I can for the next six months or five years, whatever length of term this is going to be.

I am also pleased to be elected to the most diverse Parliament yet—that is good; it was said earlier that there is more work to do, but at least this is progress in the right direction. I also have to observe that for the most part today we have seen the same old faces—or the lack of faces—filling the Benches. If we are to appear a more diverse Parliament, I hope that we will see more people filling the Benches and participating in future.

Perhaps the lack of participation or lack of occupancy of the Benches today is a reflection of the lack of content or quality in the Queen’s Speech—I hope it is not because people knew I was on the list of speakers. Some of tonight’s contributions have been really good. Those were contributions on terrorism, the victims, the language of division and the Grenfell disaster—things most of us in the House can agree on and work on, cross-party and consensually. We hope that is something that will be good in this parliamentary term.

We also heard more vacuous contributions—those saying that everything is going to be okay on Brexit, that the UK will get what it wants out of the negotiations, and that it will continue free trade deals to suit itself with the EU and free trade around the world, picking deals at random. That just does not add up. I have news for people: the days of the British empire are over, we live in a different world and it is time some people reflected that.

This was supposed to be the Queen’s Speech that gave the Prime Minister carte blanche to do what she wanted, but instead, as has been said, we have a near empty Queen’s speech. Given that the Tory manifesto was completely uncosted and ill thought through, it is probably not a bad thing that we are not getting too much from it. Such was the Prime Minister’s arrogance that she thought she could duck out of debates and announce what she wanted, attacking pensioners with regard to the triple lock, the dementia tax and the winter fuel allowance. For me, that was proof that she still leads the nasty party. As she said herself, she needed a big majority to strengthen her negotiating position with the EU, but clearly all she has done is strengthen the hand of her Back Benchers and the DUP.

That brings us nicely to “no deal being better than a bad deal”. The Prime Minister has shown that she cannot even negotiate a deal with her “friends and allies” from the DUP—worse, she did not even realise that at first. On 10 June, we heard an announcement, “We’ve got a deal with the DUP.” Then we heard, “We don’t have a deal with the DUP.” The Queen’s Speech was put back two days to allow the deal to be formulated, yet here we are and there is still no deal with the DUP. So how can we trust that Prime Minister to lead a minority Government and get a better deal with the other 27 member states of the EU? That does not add up.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is vital that the Conservative Government work not just across this House, but across the UK and start to re-engage with the devolved Administrations, particularly through the Joint Ministerial Committee being set up as a matter of urgency to take forward Brexit discussions?

[Alan Brown]

I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. I wholeheartedly agree that it is imperative that all voices of the UK are heard, especially as Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU. Our different voice must therefore be heard at the negotiating table.

I thought it ironic that one pre-election tactic was for the Conservatives to turn attention to the Liberal Democrat leader’s views on homosexuality, yet post-election the Conservatives are teaming up with the DUP, a confirmed anti-gay-marriage party that lobbied the Scottish Government to try to prevent people from Northern Ireland travelling to Scotland for a gay marriage. Again, the hypocrisy is rank.

The Prime Minister is now stuck with her team and her Cabinet, whereas before she was making it clear that she wanted a reshuffle. She is stuck with a team she does not want and she has lost her majority—that is strong and stable for you! Recent tensions are clear, given that the Chancellor and the Brexit Secretary now disagree about the need to be in the customs union. Again, where does that leave the UK in the negotiations? Apparently, the new Scottish Tory intake is so poor that a rejected candidate is now being fast-tracked through the Lords so he can work for the Scotland Office. What does that say about the make-up of the new candidates?

Given the Prime Minister’s weak position, it is clear that she does not have a mandate for a hard breakfa—[Laughter.] That is a dog’s breakfast of a statement! She does not have a mandate for a hard Brexit. She should review austerity and listen to proposals from the Scottish National party that will free up £118 billion for investment. That would include extra investment for the English NHS, which would of course mean Barnett consequentials for Scotland. In the light of the papers leaked to The Guardian yesterday about the state of the NHS in London, it is time that Government Members listened to these suggestions.

It is imperative that the Prime Minister urgently reviews our energy policy. Her first welcome U-turn as Prime Minister was the pause in the approval of Hinkley Point C. Unfortunately, that was followed by another U-turn, meaning we would carry on with the project, full steam ahead. The project has increased costs, the strike price is way above the market rate, the technology is still unproven and there is no guaranteed delivery date, yet the UK Government will not recommit to £l billion of funding for carbon capture and storage. It is clear that, even if Hinkley comes on stream, the energy demand and technology available by that time will have changed vastly. They are investing in a white elephant.

Investment in renewables has dropped by 95%, and it is no surprise that the UK Government lag behind the Scottish Government with regard to CO₂ reduction targets. Meanwhile, their friends and allies in the DUP have the “cash for ash” scandal. I sincerely hope that the rest of us are not going to be asked to foot the bill for the half-a-billion-pounds that has been wasted. The Tories are not any better: large-scale biomass is still being treated as renewable energy and subsidised accordingly. If we are willing to burn carbon, surely it would make more sense to burn indigenous coal and incorporate that into a carbon-capture scheme to eliminate CO₂ emissions.

The Government could probably get some other pieces of simple legislation through the House, such as legislation to protect cash retentions in the construction industry. The problem has been known about for around 50 years, and I was able to get cross-party support for a private Member’s Bill on the issue in the previous Parliament. I even had support from the DUP, so perhaps it really is something that should be brought to the table. If we want to increase productivity and have more efficient infrastructure, it really would be an easy start.

Needless to say, infrastructure was also lacking in the Queen’s Speech. We heard about HS2 being extended to Crewe, but we really need to see more infrastructure investment.

Another issue that could be tackled quite easily is section 75 of the Pensions Act 1995, which is causing misery and possible bankruptcy for Scottish plumbing companies. These are guys who signed up their employees for a decent pension but are now at risk of bankruptcy due to hypothetical debts arising from the regulations on multi-employer schemes. The Government held a consultation before the general election, but it was of course held up. We now have another new Minister, who is going to have to look at the issue and go through the whole process again. That really sums up the farce of it all.

I cannot mention pensions without mentioning the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign. This really is our last chance to reverse the Pensions Act 2011. It is time for the Government Members who joined the cross-party group, and who spoke in this Chamber to express their concerns on behalf of the WASPI women, to stand up and be counted. With the Government’s wafer-thin majority, it would not take many of those Members to join with Opposition Members so that we can get justice for the WASPI women. It was telling that today the Prime Minister was still quite happy to talk about her corporation tax giveaway. Surely we should be looking not at a tax giveaway to big corporations but at helping the WASPI women who need justice.

I bet Government Members really wish that the Prime Minister had got on with her day job and not called a general election; I know that a lot of people in my constituency agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.