Defence Spending

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord West of Spithead]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, further to their Integrated Review Refresh 2023, published on 13 March, whether they have any plans to increase spending on defence to three per cent of GDP.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury (Baroness Penn) (Con)]

As the Prime Minister said on Monday, we will move away from our baseline commitment of spending at least 2% of GDP on defence to a new aspiration of 2.5% when the fiscal situation allows. There are no plans to change this aspiration to 3%. To ensure that we continue to meet the threats we face, the Chancellor is providing an extra £11 billion over five years to improve the country’s resilience and readiness.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, everybody knows that our defence forces have been underfunded for some considerable time and are not in the position they should be. One could argue, I think quite reasonably, that that is part of the reason we are in the mess we are with the war in Ukraine. Autocrats such as Putin watch what we do and think, “These people are not taking life seriously”. We also know that the percentage of GDP figure is totemic. It was useful because we were able to put pressure on European allies to increase their spending, but it depends totally on what one’s GDP is. Bearing in mind that we have insufficient money for defence, does the Minister not believe that the Government should now make a clear commitment of going for 3%—let us call it of GDP—but actually attach a figure to it and start that spending now so that murderous people such as Putin see that we mean business?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord about the need to increase our spending on defence and start that now. That is why defence received its settlement a year earlier than other departments in the spending review 2020. It is why, alongside the integrated review refresh, we have included an uplift beyond that, including £4.95 billion for defence over the next two years to improve readiness and resilience of the Armed Forces, including bolstering our conventional stockpiles, enabling an early investment for the AUKUS submarine alliance and modernising our nuclear enterprise.

Economy: Productivity

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Neill of Gatley]

My Lords, I think I heard two questions from the noble Lord. I cannot resist saying that I seem to remember that the era of chronic balance of payments problems as described goes back to the 1960s, which precedes not only Conservative Governments; those of different colours were in town over that time. On the latter question, an important part of understanding the productivity issue in greater detail is that there is some evidence, which I have mentioned in the House before, that you have to be careful about bemoaning everything about our apparently low productivity performance because some of it is almost definitely the flip side of a very strong rate of employment. That is particularly the case in the context of making direct comparisons with France. It is an important point.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, would the Minister agree that our complex warship-building capacity in this country cannot increase productivity unless it has a steady drum beat of orders? I have to say that, afloat on the Solent during the summer, I hardly saw a grey-funnel ship. How will we increase productivity unless we get a steady drum beat of orders so we can make investment?

[Lord O'Neill of Gatley]

Of all the aspects of the productivity challenge I have focused on, this is not one I have given that much attention to. I hope it is not necessary for us to go to war to do something about boosting our productivity performance.

Greece

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Monday 6th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Neill of Gatley]

My Lords, while that may not have been discussed in the other House, it has, as I am sure my noble friend Lord Howell is aware, been suggested by some other members of the eurozone. It is certainly something that we are aware of having been raised and it will be mentioned again in discussions; that is for sure. I reiterate, however, that it is not appropriate for me or my right honourable friend the Chancellor to talk about such matters ahead of the delicate discussions that will take place tonight and tomorrow.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that contingency work has been done on the implications of what is happening in Greece for the eastern Mediterranean flank of NATO? Is he aware of any moves by the Russians to deal with Greece by giving assistance similar to that offered to Cyprus to get access to bases there? Lastly, are we thinking of any way to help the Greeks with the tens of thousands—in fact, more than 100,000—refugees who have poured into Greece as a result of the war in Syria et cetera?

Defence: Budget

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord West of Spithead]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to ring-fence the defence budget in the same manner as the international aid and National Health Service budgets.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have set departmental budgets for the remainder of this Parliament. No departmental budgets are set beyond 2015-16, including for health, international aid or defence. However, the Government are committed to ensuring that we have properly funded Armed Forces, which continue to be the second biggest contributor to NATO, and to growing the defence equipment programme at 1% above inflation each year until 2020-21.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer, as far as it goes. However, the defence cuts since 2010 are the largest since Options for Change in 1990, which were taken against a much bigger set of forces. On this very special day—I know that all of us are thinking of those who have given their lives for this country—it is a hard thing to say, but as Plato said, “Only the dead have seen the end of war”. Are the plethora of experts and, indeed, the Chiefs of Staff correct when they say that the structure of Future Force 2020 planned by this Government cannot be achieved without the injection of extra funding, which was promised by the Prime Minister in 2010?

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, I support the noble Lord’s comments about the importance of today. We must work endlessly to promote peace, which of course is partly the result of the defence budget, but is also something we do via our political, economic and aid budgets. There are many views on the appropriate level of the defence budget. All parties are considering what they believe an appropriate level of defence expenditure should be as they begin to think about the spending review, which will be conducted early in the next Parliament.

Queen’s Speech

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, events in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Pakistan, the South China Sea et cetera show that we are in a very dangerous and highly chaotic world, but defence hardly features in her Majesty’s gracious Speech. There is reference to working for peace and security on Europe’s borders, but the only hard piece of planned action on defence is:

“Legislation will be introduced to improve the complaints system in the Armed Forces through the creation of an ombudsman”.

Important though that may be, does it really convince people such as Putin that we in our country take hard power seriously?

To be fair, the gracious Speech does say that the Government will host the NATO summit as a,

“sign of the United Kingdom’s commitment to the Alliance”,

but as our defence spending is, on present plans, after the withdrawal from Afghanistan—and that is before any more cuts in the next spending round—due to fall to 1.7% of GDP, one has to have doubts about that commitment. The US Defense Secretary, Chuck Hagel, urged NATO allies on 3 June this year to raise their defence budgets due to the Ukrainian crisis. He urged NATO to,

“come to grips with the potentially dire consequences of current trends in reduced defence investment—consequences that … pose as much of a threat to the alliance as any potential adversary”.

Many NATO allies, he said, have slashed defence spending in response to the financial crisis, and only a handful meet NATO’s target of spending 2% of their economic output on defence.

Our nation has slashed spending on defence, and we are guilty as charged. NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said that he expected the allies to make commitments on military spending at their summit in Wales in September. It is very good that we are holding that summit there, but why have the Government not made that commitment in the gracious Speech? What a wonderful opportunity that would have been. It is all very well to talk of working for peace and security on NATO’s borders, but that demands a strong NATO. What do the Government intend to get out of the conference that is so crucial to the future of NATO? There has been no real indication of and, I fear, no real thought about what we want to achieve.

As an aside, the British people should also be aware that the greatest grand strategic threat to the defence of our islands—something that all of us hold dear—is without a doubt the possible separation of Scotland.

I am sure that your Lordships will be very surprised to hear that I shall now focus on the maritime side of things. The Defence Secretary gave a keynote speech two weeks ago on that topic and said that as we pull out of Afghanistan,

“the primary significance of maritime power will come back into its own again and we are reminded that we are a maritime nation and maritime power is crucially important to our security and to our prosperity”.

Well, bravo to that. He is absolutely right and I feel that he is singing off my hymn sheet, but where is the planned investment to ensure that we have that maritime power? Successive cuts mean that we have 19 escorts to protect British global shipping and international global shipping, all of which is run from London, to escort our forces necessary for global reach, which I think is important, for the protection of our 14 dependencies and to help to ensure the stability necessary for our worldwide investments—which, more than any other country in Europe, I hasten to add, we have in most parts of the world—and our trade. The fact that we have only 19 escorts in our Royal Navy is nothing less than a national disgrace.

A serving admiral recently highlighted in an internal naval publication the impact of cumulative spending cuts on the Navy’s ability to carry out its duties. In particular, he highlighted the price of unrelenting operational tempo due to too few ships and too many tasks. That reads across to the other services as well. Consequently, there is a lack of time for basic maintenance before ships deploy, churn and outflow of staff, and an overreliance on civilian consultants to solve technical problems. He states that overall material readiness continues to decline. Apparently, some warships have had to be towed back to Britain—that is absolutely appalling—after malfunctioning at sea. The number of submarines we have available is at an all-time low. Rectifying that clearly demands investment.

On the plus side, the naming of the first of the new carriers, the “Queen Elizabeth”, on 4 July is something I think our nation should be very proud of—albeit that the process from the SDR in 1998 to the present has been rather tortuous. The second carrier, HMS “Prince of Wales”, is well on its way to completion and it is quite wonderful to go up to Rosyth to see all this amazing work going on. But on current plans, after the investment of over £3 billion in the construction of “Prince of Wales”, it is intended to tie the ship up and not use it or possibly even sell it at a bargain basement price. That is inconceivable when it only costs £70 million to run it each year, if one relates that to the £3 billion. This means that instead of our nation having a carrier available 100% of the time—and, my goodness me, I promise your Lordships that in the next 50 years our country will need that, sadly—we will have one available for only 80% of the time. In a national emergency, of course, we could have had two carriers but we will not be able to generate them very easily.

All my experience, and I am sure that of many of your Lordships, tells me that when a crisis arises it will be in that 20% of downtime. That is the way it goes; the jam always falls downwards. I believe that the money must be found from contingency to run both carriers. After all, on top of all the cuts we have had to defence, defence has given back to the Treasury almost £5 billion in underspend since SDSR 2010. A statement in the gracious Speech about investing to run the carrier and resolve the manning shortfalls would have been very nice, as it would have shown that commitment.

I end by saying that as a nation we should be proud of our Navy, its people and what it achieves around the world, day in and day out, but we are balanced on a knife edge. Without an increase in defence spending, we are on a road to disaster. The Navy will not be able to do what the nation expects of us. In this highly dangerous world, is that really the intention of the Government?

Economy: Growth

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, I am not sure I can, but that demonstrates how difficult it will be to manage the independence process. There are so many parts of what we take for granted in the way that we do things in the UK that would have to be severed; for example, one has only to think about the value of having an integrated BBC to see that if it were severed, how much of a loss that would be to everybody, whether they were in Scotland or the rest of the UK.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, it is quite clear that the defence of our islands will be considerably weakened if the Scots vote for separation. Does the Minister also agree that there will be a huge economic impact from defence firms inevitably moving south of the border because there will be almost no orders for defence equipment in Scotland?

Thames Garden Bridge

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

That depends which people you choose. Obviously I take the point of the question. That is why, before we commit the £30 million, we will ensure that it passes a strong business case and why, before we go ahead with the project, the Garden Bridge Trust, under the chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Abersoch, will have to raise £90 million so that there will be no further call on the Treasury.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Heritage Lottery Fund match the £30 million and will we provide new berthing and facilities for all the shipping currently berthed under the footprint of the bridge?

[Lord Deighton]

With respect to the Heritage Lottery Fund, the fundraising programme has not yet begun. That is the job of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and his team at the Garden Bridge Trust, and I am sure that they will approach every possible potential supply of money. With respect to replacing anything that is displaced by the bridge, I understand that that does not represent a logistical problem—but I do not have a specific answer, frankly, to the berthing question.

Infrastructure: Expenditure

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

The plan for Network Rail is included under the high-level output specification, which is a £9 billion plan from 2014 to 2019. Of that £9.4 billion, approximately £4.2 billion has been added during the tenure of this Government.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned defence infrastructure. Does he not agree that it would be better over the next eight years to spend money on building warships in our warship yards rather than spending money in those yards not to build warships, which is what the plan appears to be?

[Lord Deighton]

I congratulate the noble Lord on being able to take the Question into the sphere of defence expenditure, which is not my expertise or my brief. One thing that I am working on in all our infrastructure investments is to make sure that they are highly productive. Spending the money that we are allocating well is probably the most effective thing we can do over the next three years.

Scotland Bill

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Thursday 15th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, at the risk of repeating myself, the Government undertook to come back, having looked at this again. We have; we consulted the Scottish Government; and we consider that there are lots of individual situations that can be called anomalous, but that there are just lots of individual circumstances related to Armed Forces personnel and a lot of other categories of people who should be taken into account when considering how the Bill will operate. On reflection and after consultation, it was decided that the basic test of close connection should apply to the armed services, as it will to everybody else. I accept that how it works out will depend on an individual’s circumstances.

As I explained as clearly as possible, not only will guidance be given so that individual members of the armed services know how to interpret the test, but—I repeat again—in the event that Scottish and UK rates differ at any point in future, the Ministry of Defence will consider exploring options to mitigate the effects of different rates of tax by using existing processes used for personnel serving abroad. The metric is already there for service personnel sent abroad.

In answer to my noble friend’s further point, I do not believe that that should be written into the Bill. It is something that the Ministry of Defence does in the normal course of events—it looks at the anomalies, in his terms.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I apologise to the House because I have not been here for the whole debate. Indeed, I only came in because I suddenly became aware of this point. This is an issue that could easily be resolved, but the position we have got ourselves into stands against reason. It will not go down well with people. Perhaps the Government could take it away to think about it. If it gets someone like me dragged out of my office when I am working because I suddenly become aware of it, my goodness, I can tell noble Lords what effect it will have on the military across the board. I beg the Minister to think about making some concessions along the lines suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth.

[Lord Kilclooney]

My Lords, I come back to the position in Northern Ireland. It is all very well to say that if there are higher taxes in Scotland, a serviceman serving in a Scottish regiment in Northern Ireland, who at the moment pays a standard United Kingdom tax rate, will be judged as living in the place with which he is most closely identified. It should be remembered that many soldiers stationed in Scotland do not like to register their address in Northern Ireland for obvious security reasons. Therefore, they could well be looked on as being Scottish taxpayers and have to pay the higher taxation that we fear will apply in Scotland.

Shipping: Tax Revenue

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of the Merchant Navy Association. I am sure that the Minister will agree that from our maritime colleges in this country we produce some of the best qualified deck officers and engineer officers who operate in ships around the world. Does he agree that we should give more support to cadets going through these schemes? I think that there is a requirement around the world for more of these people, and we could actually provide more assistance in the way of apprenticeships to enable that to happen.

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I am certainly happy to agree with the opening premise of the noble Lord’s question, and he makes an interesting suggestion, which I will take away and refer to my colleagues.