Integrated Review: Defence Command Paper

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble and gallant Lord. He raises an important point. I would observe that, across the piece, the programme for shipbuilding over the next 10 to 15 years is exciting and substantial. On our immediate ambitions, as the noble and gallant Lord said we are building eight Type 26 frigates on the Clyde and currently assembling five Type 31 frigates in Rosyth. These are important shipping orders. They are doing well, as far as I am aware. They are coping well with the challenges that we have seen over the last year. We certainly anticipate delivery on time.

The noble and gallant Lord will also be aware that we will probably mothball some of the Type 23s which have not been operational. He mentioned a figure of 17, but I would far rather have 17 workable, operational frigates that we can call on than a notional figure of something else with perhaps only 14 being operational. At least we are now much clearer on what we have, and that these things will be working and can be deployed when we need them. Looking at the transition is not to get the whole picture; you have to look at the overall future. As he is aware, that means Type 26 and Type 31 frigates, and eventually Type 32s, as well as fleet solid support ships, six multi-role support ships, an LSD(A) and a multi-role ocean surveillance ship. There is a really exciting package of shipbuilding in there that I hope my friend, the noble Lord, Lord West, will also be excited about.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, it is good to ask a supplementary question on this after seeing my noble friend Lord Younger on the Front Bench, because I had the privilege of serving in the Ministry of Defence under his late father. I ask my noble friend the Minister whether the policy of continuous at-sea deterrence remains in place. There has been some press comment recently about some industrial difficulties at Faslane and Coulport, which might risk that policy. By continuous at-sea deterrence, I of course mean that, at every hour of every day of every night, somewhere in the world, one of our Trident submarines is on patrol ready to respond, should our supreme national interest so require it.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Without hesitation, I reassure my noble friend that such is the case; the continuous at-sea deterrent is just that. It has been doing that important job without interruption. I am aware of his concern about industrial action and understand that it is under control and will not obstruct the operation of our CASD.

Trident Nuclear Programme

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con) [V]]

I thank the noble Baroness for repeating the question. The Government take the view that, under the non-proliferation treaty, we remain compliant with international law and in compliance with Article VI of that treaty. We have a very good record of contributing to nuclear disarmament; we have managed to reduce stocks by about 50% from their Cold War peak and we are the only recognised nuclear weapons state to have reduced our deterrent capability to a single nuclear weapons system.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister confirmed to me only the other day that we have a policy of continuous at-sea deterrence, which we all very much welcome. Can she confirm that we now have sufficient submarines for that purpose and, no less importantly, sufficient crews to keep them at sea?

[Baroness Goldie (Con) [V]]

I reassure my noble friend that, despite all challenges, we have maintained our essential defence operations, including the operation of our continuous at-sea deterrent.

Nuclear Weapons

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

At the heart of the question asked by the right reverend Prelate is the relevance of the term “deterrent”. Very often people measure the deterrent a failure because it has not been used. I would argue the exact opposite—that the measure of a deterrent’s success is that it has not been used, because it is doing its job of deterring.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

Can the Minister confirm the Government’s continued adherence to a policy of continuous at sea deterrents—namely, one of our Trident submarines, permanently on patrol and ready to reply, should our supreme national interest so require?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes, I can confirm to my noble friend our commitment to the continuous at sea deterrent. When the Prime Minister launched the integrated review, he specifically reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to that deterrent and the UK’s support of NATO.

HMS “Queen Elizabeth”

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Wednesday 4th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I am not sure the noble Lord will get one this afternoon, but I will do my best. As I indicated, the carrier strike group is importantly constructed to operate with the support of allies. By way of illustration, within the UK’s capability, the October group exercise brought together all the CSG elements—a carrier, jets, helicopters, escorts and supporting assets. Building on that success, the carrier strike group then participated in the annual NATO exercise Joint Warrior off Scotland, which was a massive exercise and in total involved 6,000 people on land, sea and air. I reassure the noble Lord that the carrier strike group will be a formidable presence.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, can the Minister say whether any other deployments of this nature are planned, for example to the south Atlantic?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. I am unable to comment in detail as to future deployments for the very same reasons that I am unable to comment in detail on the immediate deployment of HMS “Queen Elizabeth”. He identifies an important point. The south Atlantic is strategically significant and is becoming more so. That is an aspect of our global approach that we keep under constant review.

Nuclear Weapons

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Tuesday 14th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

In relation to the noble Lord’s second-last question, the review will be broad-ranging and its remit will become clear. The MoD expects to have a relevant role to play in responding to that review. The National Audit Office report is not an easy one for the MoD; we are quite clear about that. At the same time, as the report itself recognises, these projects are at the top end of technical, contractual and structural complexity; they do not come much tougher than these. It is important to get this into some kind of timescale perspective. It is good to see that the report recognises, under the heading of acknowledging MoD improvements, that the department has made improvements since the establishment of the DNO in 2016. These are important improvements, because they include material changes to the organisational structure, to improving relationships and to contract renegotiations.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, when will the first of the Dreadnought class missile-carrying submarines go to sea and when will they subsequently enter formal service?

[Baroness Goldie]

With some hesitation, I will give a specific answer to that question. As my noble friend will know, the programme is on train for delivery and the submarines are expected to be completed within the estimated timespan of the early 2030s. I am reluctant to give more specific indications than that. Good progress is being made and they are being monitored and assessed. In due course, we will be able to report more specifically on expected dates for delivery.

D-day Landings Memorial: Education

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord makes an important point. It will of course be for the trustees to determine how they administer and run the education centre, but I am sure that they will pay close attention to his observations.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, cannot the Government make a specific contribution to the educational facilities of the memorial, to which my noble friend referred, particularly those aimed at younger visitors?

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend may be aware that the Government have already been generous, as acknowledged by my noble friend Lord Selkirk. Initially, they made available a £20 million grant from Libor funds. On receiving the entreaties of the noble Lord, Lord Ricketts, they made available a further £7 million. The trustees are now deployed to secure the remaining funds which they require. I understand that they are energetically engaged in pursuing that objective and have engaged the services of a professional fundraiser.

Defence: British Steel

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Tuesday 30th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, looking at recent warship procurement programmes, it is generally true to say that steel has been sourced from abroad in cases where UK steel suppliers have not been able to produce steel to the required grade. If one sets that issue aside, UK producers have generally proved to be very competitive, as demonstrated by the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier programme, for which 88% of the structural steel was sourced from UK mills.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend anticipate any difference to the defence procurement rules following Brexit?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, at the moment, as my noble friend will know, it is a matter of law that all ships not classified as warships are procured through international competition. After we leave the EU, it will be open to us to decide whether to continue with that practice as a matter of policy, but we will be guided in our thinking by the need to strike the best balance between value for money and protecting national security.

Aircraft Carrier Task Force

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord, with his immense experience, is almost certainly right about the kinds of deployment that we will see the carrier perform. The first operational deployment is still in the planning stage. As recently announced, it will involve our Dutch allies: it will be a joint deployment with US Marine Corps Lightning squadron. The precise composition of the group is being worked through at the moment. We should emphasise the noble Lord’s first point: this carrier represents an extremely capable strategic deterrent for the nation. Let me stress that it will be robustly protected by air and sea assets against threats of all kinds.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, I do not wish to challenge the principles set out by the Secretary of State in his recent speech, but is it not better not to go into too much detail on these occasions, for fear of challenging the safety and security of the units concerned?

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend is absolutely right. We do not comment in detail on operational matters.

Shipbuilding: Warships

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as regards Type 26, it is true to say that ordering ships in batches is normal commercial practice. For one thing, it enables lessons learned in building the early batches to be reflected in lower prices for the later ships, which of course achieves better value for money overall. Contracting for all eight ships up-front would have precluded us from benefiting from the potential economies of scale, which may now come from the successful export campaigns to Australia and Canada.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend say how many destroyers and frigates are presently available for Royal Navy service and how many of them are fully crewed?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, all the frigates and destroyers that the Royal Navy has at its disposal are in one way or another fully operational. They may be subject to training of crew, they may be alongside having refits or they may be on deployments, but none of them is non-functional.

Offshore Patrol Vessels

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, there are two key requirements to ensure the security of our waters. One is that operations need to be intelligence-led, and the other is that they should be well co-ordinated—the noble and gallant Lord makes an excellent point. In the protection of our borders, the capability to detect and deter vessels and aircraft approaching the UK is just one part of a multilayered approach that the Government take in protecting our country. The Ministry of Defence is just one organisation with a role in this. It is important though to recognise the importance of co-ordination. That is why the permanent Joint Maritime Operations Coordination Centre exists—to deliver a national and international focal point for home waters maritime security and planning. The key is for all agencies to work together in a concerted fashion.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that I have a special interest in this matter? I think I was the Minister who ordered the original 11 River-class minesweepers, of which now apparently four remain. What has happened to the other seven?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, they have been decommissioned. In congratulating my noble friend on the foresight that he showed in commissioning those vessels, I hope he will be reassured by my initial Answer—that we are maintaining flexibility to cope with unforeseen contingencies.