King’s Speech

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, I join the general congratulations to the Labour team, the noble Lords, Lord Coaker and Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson; they will do an excellent job. I suspect, knowing the portfolio they have inherited, that the honeymoon period feels as if it is almost over, but they certainly are in a good position to face the challenging times which many have articulated so well this afternoon. I also add my congratulations to the appointment of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen. The fact that he is a former Chancellor and Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George is good enough qualification for me, but he is just the right man to conduct the strategic defence review, as he enjoys the confidence and respect of all sides of this House.

It is a very great privilege to speak, albeit very quickly in the remaining minutes—I shall try to sum up my views on international affairs in about three and a half minutes, as others have already spoken about them—and it is a privilege to be able to contribute to the debate on the gracious Speech, in which I found much to applaud. I congratulate the Government on their sure-footed start in this particular area of government.

I listened very carefully, as you might expect, to the debates on the issue of Gaza and Israel, and particularly closely to my noble friend Lord Soames, who gave what I thought was a powerful and excellent speech. I congratulate the Government on resuming the funding of UNRWA. I never understood why my Government withdrew it, frankly, and I agree that we should do much more to stop the illegal settlements, which are illegal in their violation of international law. We must throw our weight behind a two-state solution. Over the past five to 10 years, I have had my doubts about a two-state solution, but I have now come back to the conclusion that it is the only viable way forward—a two-state solution guaranteeing the safety of the State of Israel. Equally, we must redouble all our efforts as part of that to bring home the hostages as quickly as we can.

A couple of days ago, I read in the Library a book called Beyond Britannia by the noble Lord, Lord McDonald, who was PUS at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, and it includes some extremely interesting points. I will raise two of them very quickly. One is that he asks which countries actually need a foreign policy, which is a bit that is worth reading. Do we need our own unilateral foreign policy? Another bit, with which I slightly disagree, is that he thinks that the UK could diverge away from the US in the case of the US taking military action over Taiwan. He thinks that relationship could survive were we not to; I am not so sure.

I remember that it is very difficult planning a foreign policy because so much of it is reactive. Many of us in this House will remember when Robin Cook came in as the Foreign Secretary and talked about having an ethical dimension; it is a rather difficult thing because that ethical dimension ended up with us being dragged into the Iraq War. But a Foreign Office needs to be practical; for that to be able to happen, it is absolutely vital that all the apparatus of state—in other words, the Foreign Office and our security and intelligence services—are properly funded around the world, and I hope that this Government will commit to do that in a way that others have perhaps not done so well in the past.

The situation with NATO remains the same. We want to keep America in, keep Russia down and keep China out. The relationship with Donald Trump is going to be absolutely critical if he gets in. Even if he does not, the House is going to be a Republican House; we are going to be dealing with the Republican Party, so we should stop making unwise comments about President Trump, which some, now in high positions of power, have done rather unwisely in in the past.

We have heard about AUKUS and I will talk briefly about it and the Commonwealth. The noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, was right, and I declare my interest as deputy chairman of the Commonwealth Enterprise and Investment Council. There is a coalition or coincidence of interests in that the forthcoming Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in October will be in Samoa in the Pacific. What a wonderful opportunity this will be for our new Prime Minister to meet the other 55 Heads of State, on the global stage, to discuss matters that relate to the Pacific and the Indo-Pacific tilt. The leaders of Australia, New Zealand, Canada and others will be there. It is a fantastic opportunity for the UK to articulate its vision.

What a wonderful and underused vehicle the Commonwealth is. Home to 2.5 billion people, 60% of whom are under the age of 30, the Commonwealth had a GDP of $13 trillion in 2021, set to increase to $19 trillion in 2027. It contains half of the world’s top 20 emerging global cities—New Delhi, Mumbai, Nairobi, Kuala Lumpur, Bangalore, Johannesburg, Kolkata, Cape Town, Chennai and Dhaka. It has a huge military force; India has the second largest army in the world, and, of course, Canada and Australia are key to our relations within AUKUS.

CHOGM in October is a huge opportunity. I hope not only that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary go but that they take the Defence Secretary with them as well to reinforce how important AUKUS and that part of the world are to us.

Ministry of Defence: Expenditure

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister does his job extremely well. Can he clarify whether the Government are still fully behind the Storm Shadow missile programme? Will he use this opportunity to clarify whether those Storm Shadow missiles will be deployable within Russia?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

We are of course committed to the Storm Shadow programme. As the Prime Minister has made clear, under Article 51 of the UN charter Ukraine has a clear right of self-defence against Russia’s illegal attacks. That does not preclude striking military targets inside Russia, provided strikes comply with the law of armed conflict and international humanitarian law. As the Prime Minister said, it would be inappropriate to go into the operational detail of how Ukraine uses UK-provided systems. I should say to the noble Lord that that is exactly the same policy that the previous Government pursued.

Iran: Military Power

Lord Swire Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will know that we cannot go into any great detail on this sort of thing. However, we have a permanent presence in the area, as do our allies, and we maintain an integrated international force to act as a deterrent. We also use financial and other sanctions, disrupting supply chains for all forms of activity.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

What is my noble friend the Minister’s current assessment of those who are under threat, in this country, from Tehran directly or through its proxies?

Conventional Weapon Stocks: Expenditure

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The noble and gallant Lord knows only too well that procurement is really difficult when it comes to military assets. We had a conversation last week about appetite for risk, but getting SMEs involved at the correct level will always be quite tricky because of the scale of operation that we need to deal with weapons and munitions. However, it is absolutely a focus in the MoD to ensure that procurement is much more light-footed that it has been in the past.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, what is my noble friend the Minister’s assessment of Russia’s current conventional weapon stocks and its reliance, so we are told, on importing shells from North Korea?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, the Russian threat is paramount, and Russia must not on any account be allowed to prevail—there is no question about that, and the Government, the Opposition and everybody else are on the same page. Russia has ramped up its production capacity and has been using North Korean equipment, although its reliability is not quite clear. It is certainly something of which everybody is increasingly aware.

King’s Speech

Lord Swire Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, the bonus ball for sitting through this debate from the start, other than what we must euphemistically call comfort breaks—although in this place there is not much comfort involved—is that I got to hear two magnificent maiden speeches. The first, of course, was from the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, which was typically excellent. His Wikipedia entry says:

“Andrew Roberts, Baron Roberts of Belgravia … is a British popular historian, journalist and member of the House of Lords”.


Given the reception he has had, we can now amend that to a popular British historian, journalist and popular Member of the House of Lords. See, I told you it was worth staying for. The noble Lord, Lord Young of Old Windsor, gave a most elegant maiden speech, as one might expect. As deputy chairman of the Commonwealth Enterprise and Investment Council, I very much welcomed his thoughts on how we can do more and do it better, and I look forward to working with him on Commonwealth matters going forward.

At the risk of repeating what many of your Lordships have already said, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, who did such an excellent job on the Front Bench, and agree how wonderful it is that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, is still there, as constant as the great North Star, to guide us through these deliberations. On the appointment of David Cameron as Foreign Secretary, whatever you may think about the individual, and I am of course very positive about him, I think it is a huge bonus for your Lordships’ House to have the Foreign Secretary among us. I hope it is also a precedent that we can have another great office of state held by somebody in your Lordships’ House because it makes us more relevant and more potent—I think we are all winners by that appointment.

The noble Earl, Lord Minto, spoke about the interlinking of what is going on in this tricky world at the moment, and everything we have heard so far today proves his point. I am a former chairman of the Conservative Middle East Council; I visited Israel a number of times, the West Bank and Gaza. I am not going to talk specifically about that because I hope we will have more opportunity to do that for longer another time. I want to talk about two specific things in the time allocated this evening: the first is Afghanistan and the second is the DPRK.

I have spoken before about the plight of many women in Pakistan—the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, knows this well—who previously held high office in Afghanistan: judges, police, all kinds of positions. I have asked the Minister in the past to reassure us that they will not be in any danger or forcibly repatriated to Afghanistan, and I am horrified by the news that Pakistan has now started forcible repatriation. Can the Minister again, therefore, reassure us that nobody who will be vulnerable to the Taliban, the authorities in Afghanistan, will be returned there against their will?

More than 100 Afghan special forces personnel, trained and funded by the UK, have also apparently been denied entry to the UK under the Afghan relocations and assistance policy scheme and left to the mercy of the Taliban. I very much welcome what the Minister has to say on that.

I wonder if the Minister has heard the rumour that 500 volunteers for suicide bombings are en route to Gaza. The Taliban leadership is keen to see the back of them, because they are hardliners. That would certainly add a new dimension to what is going on in Gaza. Apparently, a lot of US weapons left behind in Afghanistan are finding their way to Gaza—they are not from Ukraine, as former President Trump has claimed. Afghanistan is not finished business, and anyone who thinks it is seriously underestimates the malign role that it can continue to play.

I continue on the theme of the axis of evil. Your Lordships will be aware that Russia and North Korea have now entered relations at what they describe as “a new, strategic level”. The Russian Foreign Secretary, Sergei Lavrov, went to Pyongyang following the summit between Putin and Kim Jong Un in September. Pyongyang has now sent a thousand containers of equipment and munitions for Russia to use in Ukraine. As worrying, perhaps, is that, in return, Pyongyang is to receive Russian weapons technology to augment its nuclear programme, as well as its first military reconnaissance satellite. Incidentally, Lavrov then travelled to Iran to hold talks with President Raisi in Tehran, and Iran has subsequently supplied Russia with Shahed kamikaze drones.

John Kirby, the spokesman for the US National Security Council, said that China, Russia and North Korea presented “unique and pernicious threats” to Washington. It is not just to Washington but to the rest of us as well. We know that Russia cannot continue the fight in Ukraine alone. As I have said, North Korea has provided over two months’ worth of supplies for Russia to use in Ukraine. I welcome the Government’s recommitment in the gracious Speech to supporting Ukraine, but I urge them to redouble their efforts to stiffen the resolve of those who are beginning to waver and to continue to support the Ukrainians in their fight.

Ukraine: Update

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Perhaps it is easier if I tell the noble Lord what I cannot reply to. I do not know what is in the mind of President Putin—does anyone? As to the attitude of Germany, I have said before that this is a subject of fluid discussion at these important fora, and that discussion is taking place as we speak. I very much hope that the force of that discussion will be to make clear the desire for the Leopard tank to be included in the facility being provided to Ukraine.

On training, I said in response to an earlier question that the UK will train Ukrainian detachments to operate all the platforms we donate. That will start as soon as Ukrainian troops arrive in the UK, which is likely to be by the end of this month. There is a mutual interest in making sure that training is conducted as effectively and swiftly as possible. The estimate is that the equipment we are announcing will be operated by Ukrainian troops on the battlefield in the coming months. I obviously cannot be more specific than that.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for the Statement and update. It is right that much talk is concentrating on holding the coalition together in Europe, and we must guard against inevitable fatigue beginning to creep in. Can the Minister also confirm that our wider diplomatic network, right around the world but particularly at the UN in New York, is working tirelessly to stiffen the resolve of countries which have been slow to come forward and share our view about the situation?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I think I can give that reassurance to my noble friend. Obviously, his question is more within the remit of my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, but as he will be aware, we have been very active on the diplomatic front. The United Nations General Assembly vote on 12 October last year was a powerful demonstration of the international community’s widespread condemnation of Russia’s outrageous and illegal attempt to annex the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

That global pressure is continuing. I had the privilege of meeting a group of United States Congressmen and Congresswomen earlier this week. I was very struck by the unanimity of acceptance that what is happening is wrong and has to be resisted. This may be happening in Europe, but it is understood in the United States that if you do not address that wrong, there are consequences which could be global in their impact. I reassure my noble friend that diplomacy is a critical part of what we are doing to support Ukraine in its endeavour.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

As I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, we are the second-largest investor in south-east Asia. We have strong and deep links with many allies, including Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and, of course, the United States. It is therefore perfectly natural and expected to continue to operate and exercise alongside our allies.

[Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con)]

T2. How does my right hon. Friend score his Department on its agreement with the Treasury to release land now considered surplus to the MOD’s requirements to the housing market?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

My right hon. Friend is right that we need to release land that is surplus to requirements. The MOD owns 2% of Britain, and it is important to have a programme of disposal that works with local communities to free up land for important housing.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Stuart Andrew]

As I said a moment ago, we are making sure that we go out to international competition, because that gives value for money to this country, and we can also then invest the savings we make in other capabilities. It means that we attract the best and affordable solutions. It also brings competition at the heart of our shipbuilding strategy, because we want our shipyards to go out there and compete for international orders.

[Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con)]

Captain Mainwaring’s doughty band of men who formed the Walmington-on-Sea Home Guard are in danger of looking like special forces, on account of their ability to climb in and out of Lance Corporal Jones’s converted bread van, when compared with the modern Army, which has 18,000 clinically obese soldiers and servicemen, with 398 having type 2 diabetes, 160 being on prescribed diet pills and 16 having had liposuction. When is the Secretary of State going to do something about the state of the fitness of the British armed forces?

[Mark Lancaster]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising this matter, but, of course, as I look across this Chamber, I do wonder whether or not this was the right establishment to be criticising the British Army for obesity. Every year, all soldiers are required to carry out fitness tests. He will have realised, or seen, that from 1 April we are changing that annual fitness test to make sure it is more aligned with the combat roles our soldiers are required to carry out.

Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Bill [Lords]

Lord Swire Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 29th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that when we are considering introducing a new element of flexibility into service in the armed forces, we should look again at the maximum enlistment time? Although the military have moved towards extending the retirement age in view of our ageing population, perhaps it is time to revisit that as well. People who are well into their 60s, and even 70s, are quite capable of doing some of the modern jobs in the armed forces, which would not have been the case 20 or 30 years ago.

[Mr Jones]

I think it is a fact of life that the pool of 18-year-olds is becoming smaller. I hope the right hon. Gentleman was not suggesting that the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) should be brought out of retirement; I do not know whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing for the armed forces, but it would certainly be interesting for them. However, he has raised an interesting point. When I was a Defence Minister, people who could have made a further contribution were leaving the forces in their early to mid-50s, for reasons connected with, for instance, pensions. Given that that pool of 18-year-olds is getting smaller, we should also revisit the idea of recruitment from Commonwealth countries, which has been successful in the past. It has made a tremendous contribution to our nation’s defence over the last few years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 27th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

I think there has been a tendency since the early 1990s to think that the world is a much safer place than it actually is. There has been a tendency sometimes to sit back and believe that everything is just going to be safer and safer. The world is rapidly changing, and it is not just threats from terrorism; it is threats from peer enemies as well. We need to understand what those threats are and make sure that we are equipped to deal with them. I am looking forward to a Christmas break, as I am sure the whole House is, and if I get a few hours spare, I will be sure to read the book.

[Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con)]

At the risk of being given an honorary captaincy, may I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his job? I am sure he will do it extremely well. In his ongoing and delicate discussions with the Treasury, will he remain aware, first, that there are those of us on this side of the House who believe that the defence budget has been pared back about as far as it can be, and secondly, that when it comes to Trident renewal many of us on this side of the House do not believe it should be part of the defence budget? Indeed, it distorts the defence budget, and if that is part of his argument, he will have considerably more support than perhaps he knows.

[Gavin Williamson]

Everything that my right hon. Friend has raised will be part of the review. He has raised the important question of nuclear capability being part of the defence budget. It has traditionally not sat as part of the defence budget; that changed only post-2010. It is vital to look at all options as part of the national security and capability review, and I look forward to speaking to him and seeking his advice and thoughts on the issues that he has raised.