Armed Forces Bill

Lord Swire Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 8th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moore of Etchingham (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure and honour to follow the several noble Lords, including two noble and gallant Lords, who have already spoken; of course, they have tremendous expertise. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fraser, because she made a point that is very important for the more general argument and not just about Scotland: the reserves are not a reserved matter. That says something about how it all operates and how local it is.

I have the honour, as a Sussex man, of being a member of the Sussex Club. We have an absolute rule that we have no speeches ever but, at our annual dinners twice a year, as well as the loyal toast, of course, we have two other toasts. One says, “Prosperity to the county of Sussex”. The other is to the forces of the Crown.

The link between those two toasts says it all. This is partly why we do not have speeches. This is what we are talking about here: this is why it matters, and why it is rooted. We must remember that the origins of all our armies, unlike the origins of the Royal Navy, are not as standing armies but as regiments raised. That is how the loyalty of the people has always been bound in. It is quite a serious historical, emotional and cultural matter.

However, we should not rest our argument only on that point, central though it is. It could be argued that for some reason, these arrangements are out of date. We would then need to think about whether they would be more efficiently done if they are centralised. The noble Earl, Lord Minto, said that centralised non-departmental bodies are a majorly difficult feature of modern British government. It is all to do with the problem of answerability. What comes into rhetoric a great deal in modern government is that we need “an independent body” to do something or other. That sounds lovely, because we all want independence, but what does that independence mean? It means a person with a bureaucratic background being appointed by bureaucrats. There is almost no answerability to the public more widely, or even to Parliament. Therefore, I would be suspicious of that.

Following on from what the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, said, this is relevant now because the Government have inherited this measure from their officials, but it is not consonant with their own policies. The so-called “Manchesterism” from the Prime Minister is, in a way, a modern and more urban version of the thing we all are praising in relation to the reserves in the counties. It is the idea that local loyalty matters, that local people understand these questions better and that power should be devolved. This measure is going in absolutely the wrong direction.

This matters particularly because this Government are trying to shift all of that. Also, we must not forget the wider picture. We live in a dramatically more dangerous world than we have done for a very long time. The loyalty we are talking about needs to be constantly cultivated. People need to understand why their service matters. This will make it harder for them to understand, at a time when we want them to volunteer.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Moore, thinks there is some intellectual coherence in the Government’s approach to regionalisation, given that in the last 24 hours, they have abandoned large swathes of it, including in my part of the world. However, I understand and take on board what he says.

I do not want to make a political point—having just made a political point. I strongly agree with the noble Lord in suspecting that this has the hands of officials all over it. Knowing the Minister as I do, I am not wholly convinced that this has his support. Of course, he will have to support it, as a government proposal, but I think he will get the arguments against it as well as anyone else would.

I am always nervous about any form of military reorganisation when it comes to recruitment. I bow to more distinguished military figures in this Chamber than I was, and it is very dangerous to speak about military experience, given how long ago, in my case, it was. However, I have witnessed over the years—and in the other place was a critic of—the move to change how we recruit our Armed Forces, not least through the use of Capita, which I always thought had disaster written all over it, in capitals. Indeed, that was a view shared at one point by the Public Accounts Committee and the National Audit Office. I am pleased that the Government are transitioning to the Armed Forces recruitment programme, which will come into force next year. We can only hope and pray that it will do us better service than did the Capita project.

But, of course, what we lost during all that was the whole issue of recruiting regiments from their localities, which has been enormously important over the years, not least because it engenders comradeship among those who join together from different parts of the world when they serve abroad. We have seen that throughout history. I agree that to try to centralise everything goes against the Government’s idea of localism. I can quite understand some officials sitting in the MoD on a quiet Friday afternoon thinking, “We must bring all this together. We cannot have all these independent organisations. It is much easier to have one”. But I think it would be a great mistake.

In an article in today’s Telegraph, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces, Louise Sandher-Jones, talked about the mobilisation of some of the 95,000 retired people who have served in the Armed Forces for an exercise next year. I know they have raised the age at which veterans can be mobilised from 55 to 65—unfortunately, that excludes me by a year or two, although I hope I might have some use somewhere along the line if they are going to do that—but my point is that, if we are talking about a mass mobilisation, it goes back to the debate we had on an earlier clause about how to contact people. We are talking about contacting people who have not been in contact for decades. They live all over the country. What better way of connecting with those people and fostering some sense of purpose and community than by doing it through the existing structure?

The whole way that we do our military, to use rather bad English, is going through a transition, with much more concentration on our Reserve Forces and mobilising them in the case of an emergency. I therefore urge extreme caution to the Government, and to stop tinkering with this at the present time. Of course, the RFCAs are not above criticism—I understand a lot of improvements have already been made—but it is senseless, and the timing is wrong, to follow what the Government are proposing to place in their wake.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

I begin by apologising to my noble friend the Minister, for whom I have the highest regard. I fear that what I am about to say may not be the most welcome contribution to this debate. I do not know half as much about this as the many noble and gallant Lords and other Members in the Chamber, but I do want to say this.

Last week, I went to an RAF base for an event—I declare an interest because my son-in-law is the station commander—and I was very struck by the extent to which it celebrated the local connection between the base and the community. There were representatives of local organisations and schools and others there, in addition to the lord-lieutenant, with whom I had a friendly word, and I got a sense of what lies behind the debate we are having today.

All I would say to my noble friend is that it is possible that we might lose something valuable by proceeding with this clause. But I am very grateful and interested to hear what he says in reply to this debate. I have an open mind, but I think that some valid points have been made.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harlech (Con)]

My Lords, it is a new day in Committee, so I declare my interest as a serving officer in the Army Reserve once again. In moving Amendment 40, I shall also speak to Amendments 41, 45, 69 and 70. I am grateful to my noble friends Lady Penn and Lord De Mauley for adding their names in support of my amendments. Let me also preface my amendments by reiterating my intent behind all of them, as I did on the first day in Committee. They are all aimed at improving the lived experience of reservists in order to boost recruiting and retention and therefore to enhance the operational effectiveness of the Armed Forces.

I begin by welcoming the Government’s Amendment 38, which allows call-out notices to be served by email. It is sensible and I support it. But it also illustrates the point behind this group. We are getting steadily better at calling reservists up, but we have said almost nothing about the civilian conditions that determine whether they are still serving and able to be serving reservists when we call. I think that there is common ground across your Lordships’ House on that objective. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, has amendments for consideration later today that approach the same problem from a different direction.

The Select Committee on this Bill in the other place put the point plainly. It welcomed the changes to recall liability and then noted that the measures focus on the strategic reserve and do not in themselves achieve the strategic defence review’s ambition, which in my humble opinion is too modest anyway, of an increase of 20% to make a larger active reserve. That growth will be produced by the conditions in which people serve—and those conditions are set at the reservist’s desk on a Monday morning rather than in the drill hall.

Amendment 40 would therefore require employers with 50 or more employees to publish and maintain a policy of employment of reservists. There is no sanction. There is no civil liability. The Secretary of State supplies a model policy and, under Amendment 69, this would not commence for 12 months. This is already the required standard of silver and gold employers under the defence employer recognition scheme. The difficulty with a voluntary scheme is that it reaches the converted. The employers who need a policy have never heard of it. There are roughly 38,000 medium-sized businesses in this country and that is where a great many reservists work but where there is no human resources function to absorb the question when it arises.

A reservist in a firm with no policy negotiates from nothing. Every request for time away is a personal favour rather than an entitlement, granted or refused according to the temperament of whoever is in the chair—and when that person moves on, the answer changes. A written policy would end the line manager lottery. Subsection (2)(b) requires the policy to address what happens to pay, pension, seniority and continuity of employment during mobilisation. Most reservists have no idea what happens to any of those things, because nobody has ever written it down. That is a remarkable thing to discover at the point of deployment.

My main effort is Amendment 41, which is at the heart of this group. Most reservists fund their own training out of their annual leave. They spend their holiday entitlement on annual camp and have to spread the remainder among family commitments, personal holiday and the incidentals that real life throws in their path. That is the position we are in today and I do not think that it is defensible. This amendment would give 10 working days of unpaid leave a year for annual continuous training or for promotion courses. It would become applicable only after the employee had completed 26 weeks with the civilian employer. It requires 28 days’ written notice and a certificate from the commanding officer. It excludes employers with fewer than 10 employees, it confers no right to be paid and it counts against any contractual entitlement that the employer already offers.

Section 50 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 already gives unpaid time off for public duties to magistrates, to local councillors, to school governors and to members of health bodies. Parliament has decided that sitting on a planning committee merits protected time off, but it has not yet decided that training for the defence of the realm does. I think that that is a very difficult proposition to explain to a reserve soldier. Ten days is already the gold standard under the defence employer recognition scheme, and the Civil Service has offered paid leave of this kind for well over a decade. It is a fair question why what the Government expect of themselves as an employer is too much to expect of anybody else.

Let us look at our Five Eyes counterparts. Australia’s Defence Reserve Service (Protection) Act 2001 requires employers to release reservists for training—not just for mobilisation, but for training. Our own 1985 Act protects mobilisation only. The current gap is legislative, not cultural. Let me anticipate the objections, including those on my own Front Bench. The first is that this is a burden on employers. It is unpaid, it is capped at 10 days, it requires four weeks’ notice, it excludes the smallest firms and, under Amendment 70, it would not commence for a year. If that is an unacceptable burden, we should be honest and say that we are not really serious about the whole force.

The second objection is that an absolute right is too rigid and employers must be able to refuse. A refusable right is precisely the position that reservists have now and it is exactly why they use annual leave instead. The notice period and the annual cap are what protect the employer, and they are real protections. The third objection is that this is a day one right. It is not. It arises only after the reservist has completed 26 weeks of employment with the civilian employer—the same qualifying period that this House insisted on for unfair dismissal.

Let me turn to something that has happened since these amendments were tabled. Last Friday, the BBC and the Times reported that the Army has been instructed to halt non-essential training exercises and that collective training for United Kingdom-based units has been suspended for most of this year on budgetary grounds. The Army has not denied it. It says that it is prioritising the activity that contributes most directly to readiness. I understand why it would say that, but this bears directly on the amendments before your Lordships.

A reservist books their annual continuous training months ahead, clears it with their employer and, very often, pays for it out of their own annual leave. If the exercise is then cancelled, they do not get that leave back, and the employer who has released them draws their own conclusions about how seriously the department takes its own training. Every cancellation of that kind spends employer good will that took years to accumulate.

I therefore ask the Minister three things. First, will reserve collective training and the annual continuous training period fall within the scope of the current pause? Secondly, what has been cancelled or curtailed for the reserves so far this financial year? Thirdly, £4.7 billion of the £15 billion in the defence investment plan remains to be confirmed at the Budget on 28 October. I would be grateful if the Minister could say whether reserve pay and training will be protected within that settlement, as well as undertaking to write to members of the Committee once the position is known. I put that in support of these amendments, rather than against the Government. If money is tight, the measures that cost the Exchequer nothing become more, not less, important; everything in this group is of that kind.

Amendment 45 is the mechanism that makes Amendment 40 matter. It would require the national procurement policy statement to address how contracting authorities take account of a supplier’s arrangements for employing reservists. These authorities must already have regard to that statement under the Procurement Act 2023, so this would create no new machinery and no new liability. There is one fact here that the Committee ought to have: the current statement disapplies the social value priority for the Ministry of Defence in relation to defence and security contracts. So the one department whose suppliers most obviously employ reservists is the department least required to weight it; I would be grateful if the Minister could explain how that came about.

Amendments 69 and 70 are consequential. They would provide the 12-month commencement period for the two duties.

The Bill asks reservists to be available later in life, at shorter notice and on lower thresholds. Attendance at annual continuous training is the single biggest determinant of a reserve unit’s readiness. Promotion courses generate the non-commissioned officers, without whom mobilisation at scale is not possible, whatever powers the Bill confers. These are modest amendments and would cost the Exchequer nothing. I beg to move.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, before we move on—because I suspect that this is not going to detain us too long—I would like to tease out from the Government Front Bench a couple of things.

As I said in my earlier remarks, we are going through something of a sea-change, rather too late in the day, in how we look at our reserves, our responsiveness and our state of alert in this country. In that respect, we understand that it is easier for larger companies to let people go for training because they have more people, but it is the smaller companies on which we should spend a little bit more time in thinking how we can better assist them. With that in mind, in both cases—those of larger and smaller companies—what are we doing to promote the idea that it is a good thing for them to release their employees to take part in some activities involving the military? Are we actively doing that?

Secondly, on people being released from other duties, it suddenly struck me that it seems rather ridiculous that people in the reserves are not exempt from jury service; I think I am right in that. This means that, particularly if you are a small employer, you might have to let somebody go for not only their reserve training but jury service. That takes a huge whack out of somebody’s time. However we monitor these things, it is almost impossible to ensure that, ultimately, people are not being penalised in their careers for taking time off. I would like to know what the Government are doing to monitor this on an ongoing basis in order to make sure that people who are actively involved in the reserves are not being penalised further down the line.

There seems to be something of a disconnect in our thinking here. On the one hand, as I said earlier, there is talk of mobilising many more veterans—something like 69,000—in an exercise next year, just at the same time as we are telling our Reserve Forces that they cannot have money for training and equipment. What is the Government’s thinking on that? If we are going to mobilise these people, is it going to be a paper exercise or are we actually going to invite them to turn up? Are they going to be given equipment? What is the current thinking here—or is it just a catchy headline?

We have debated the whole issue of preparedness in this country and will continue to do so going forward, for obvious reasons—of that I am absolutely sure. The noble Lord, Lord Harlech, mentioned a number of issues, with which I concur. I am broadly supportive of many of the amendments that he has tabled and which we are debating this afternoon, some of which are probably probing. He talked about Australia and the difference in its approach to these matters, as compared to ours. We have lessons to learn from Australia, but why do we not also take into account what they have been doing so successfully in Switzerland for decades now, whereby almost anyone of working age and beyond is required to do service in the reserves at weekends? It is a very bonding exercise. You can be somebody’s boss in the week and that person can be your radio operator at the weekend. It engenders in a country a sense of purpose, unity and preparedness, which is what this must all be about.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, I will make just a brief point. The noble Lord, Lord Harlech, mentioned the training issues. I have raised these with the Minister and will come back to them.

In dealing with the employment issues, we have discussed people being released, but, having had the responsibility for fair employment matters, what about somebody being employed if an employer happens to know that that person is a reservist? The employer could say, “I don’t want to employ that man or woman because they will be a nuisance to me and I will have to let them go on release”; that would be one step before you get to the point of being an actual employee. The question is: is a person to be discriminated against on the basis of being a reservist by a future employer who happens to know that that person is a reservist, whether their picture appears in the local paper, through word of mouth or whatever? There is an issue there to be addressed.

Future Capability of the Armed Forces

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 16th July 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, it is a very great honour to follow the noble and gallant Lord. I find myself in no man’s land, squeezed between a former Chief of the Defence Staff and a valedictory Bishop, so I shall try to navigate as best I can through what could be dangerous territory.

I particularly welcome back my noble friend Lord Harlech; it is very good to see him. He was sent to the scrapheap. The REME have got hold of him, reconditioned him and polished him up. He has come back to serve on these Benches and we will get a lot of usage from him over the coming years, of that I am certain.

I draw attention—not only because I need to under the rules of the House but because it is appropriate to our deliberations this afternoon—to my involvement with BOKA, a company dedicated to security and defence, aerospace and space, sovereign resilience, AI and quantum. I chair the investment committee of that company, which is involved in many of the technologies that we have been discussing and will continue to discuss this afternoon.

I listened carefully to what the noble and gallant Lord just said, and he is right. I suspect that many of the speeches this afternoon will dwell on similar topics to underscore the fact that there is a profound change in the economics of warfare. The demand from defence comes from changing defence patterns resulting from our most recent experiences in Ukraine and Iran—two very different military scenarios, but with some common themes.

We are now witnessing a rapid pace of newly iterating technologies and attributable systems. These act as force multipliers to defence forces that are struggling with recruitment, and they assist in combating new threats in both conventional war-fighting and in the grey zone, such as the cyber domain. As such, defence procurement must be more focused on annualised budgeting with agile deployment and testing. It must rely more readily on partnering with private capital not only to share the burden of finance but to assist with the proper due diligence of new technologies in quick time. Further, the larger, exquisite systems will require dedicated sovereign funds for longer-term procurement cycles, but the number of items procured is likely to fall over the next decade.

In conclusion, I remain unconvinced that we have properly addressed and adapted our procurement policy in a rapidly changing environment. We need to be smarter and quicker. Our Armed Forces need equipment now and simply cannot wait for long-term projects to be realised. The funding of this sea change, which is what is required, will require a change in Treasury thinking, without which none of the desired changes will be achievable. It also requires leadership from the new, as yet untested Prime Minister. Tackling the country’s economy and unsustainable welfare budget must be his priority, without which the Government will simply be unable to fund the spending on defence we need in order both to honour our international commitments and to ensure the safety of our own people.

Royal Navy: Nuclear Submarines

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 15th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

Of course, the Government’s position is to maintain the position that we have had over many decades. I appreciate the point that the noble Lord raises. He will know—because the debate often rages about this—that the fact he can say that and can speak without fear or favour in this Chamber in a democracy is part of why we keep the nuclear deterrent: to defend our democracy from those who seek to undermine it.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, the SNP in Edinburgh maintains that it is committed to the future of Faslane as a base while at the same time it says that it would want to rid an independent Scotland of nuclear weapons. What discussions does the Minister have on a regular basis with Edinburgh about that position, and how many jobs from the nuclear programme are going to be created in Scotland?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The noble Lord is quite right. Thousands of jobs are dependent on the nuclear deterrent in Scotland and across the UK. I often make the point around the SNP, and we see its inconsistent position with respect to nuclear weapons. I remind the noble Lord that, a few years ago, the SNP’s position was not only opposition to nuclear weapons but opposition to NATO. When it changed that position at an SNP conference, some SNPs resigned from the party as a result. Now it has a position of opposition to nuclear weapons but of maintaining membership of NATO. The SNP needs to be reminded that NATO is a nuclear alliance.

Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference 2026

Lord Swire Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, what reassurance can the Government give us—

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, the challenge of the review next year is to prevent the escalation, never mind the reduction, of nuclear weapons, and to ensure that there is no worrying escalation by America, China or Russia of their threats to test nuclear weapons, for example. How can we be sure that we put the process into reverse rather than see it escalate?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The establishment and existence of the NPT, which involves 191 countries, including all the countries—Russia, China and the United States—that the noble Lord has mentioned, provides a conference and a venue in which much of this can be discussed. All I am saying is that the NPT has been a successful vehicle. We need to continue to support it to try to take this forward.

The noble Lord mentions the comprehensive test-ban treaty; that has been another success. I know the point that he is making about the apparent re-establishment—according to President Trump—of that. That is a matter for America. This country has not tested a nuclear weapon since the early 1990s. We adhere to the provisions of the comprehensive test-ban treaty, and to the provisions of the NPT. We ask and call on other countries to do exactly the same.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

At the risk of repeating myself—the only thing that I am testing is my memory—can the Minister give us any reassurance that the international community is taking seriously the increase in the production of nuclear weapons, and in weapons capability, by the DPRK? What action is being taken with some of the DPRK’s influential neighbours to contain a potentially lethal situation?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The noble Lord will be pleased to know that I never repeat myself. On the serious point about the DPRK, we take that challenge seriously. The DPRK announced that it had departed from the NPT in 2003. That is something that the UK and the international community dispute and do not accept. We call on the neighbours to which the noble Lord refers to put pressure on the DPRK to adhere to its responsibilities that it accepted when it joined the NPT in the first place.

Qatar: Israeli Strike

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 11th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I absolutely agree with the noble Lord. Part of everything I have said in response to this Urgent Question has been to highlight the crucial role Qatar has played, is playing and will play in the future. What should ring out from the questions noble Lords have asked and the statement I am making is that we are grateful. We admire greatly the Emir, his Government and the people of Qatar for the fact that they are willing, and have said so publicly, to continue their efforts to bring about the release of the hostages and that peace settlement. They are to be congratulated for that. We do not take it for granted, but we admire and respect their fortitude in the face of what happened.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, I associate myself with everything the Minister said about the Qataris, the Emir and the commendable restraint they are showing in the face of unprovoked provocation. Can I ask, specifically in terms of chronology, is it the Minister’s understanding that Israel let the White House know of the attack on Qatar as it was happening, before it happened or after it happened? If it was before it happened, what position were the Americans in to forewarn the Qataris?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I do not want to speculate on who knew what and when, but I think it is interesting to note what the White House said in response to the attack that took place. The President himself said that the strike on Doha

“does not advance Israel or America’s goals”,

and he feels “very badly” about it. I think those White House comments speak for themselves.

Armed Forces: Recruitment and Retention

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 7th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have committed to significantly growing the size of the Reserve Forces. With that in mind, what discussions have the Government had with employers to encourage them to promote the possibility of a career in the Reserve Forces and to ensure that they are prepared to release their workforce when they are called upon to serve?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

We are having discussions with businesses of all sizes to try to ensure that we can promote the reserves as much as we can. That is in progress, and we will need to do more of it to ensure that we get the reserves we need.

King’s Speech

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, I join the general congratulations to the Labour team, the noble Lords, Lord Coaker and Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson; they will do an excellent job. I suspect, knowing the portfolio they have inherited, that the honeymoon period feels as if it is almost over, but they certainly are in a good position to face the challenging times which many have articulated so well this afternoon. I also add my congratulations to the appointment of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen. The fact that he is a former Chancellor and Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George is good enough qualification for me, but he is just the right man to conduct the strategic defence review, as he enjoys the confidence and respect of all sides of this House.

It is a very great privilege to speak, albeit very quickly in the remaining minutes—I shall try to sum up my views on international affairs in about three and a half minutes, as others have already spoken about them—and it is a privilege to be able to contribute to the debate on the gracious Speech, in which I found much to applaud. I congratulate the Government on their sure-footed start in this particular area of government.

I listened very carefully, as you might expect, to the debates on the issue of Gaza and Israel, and particularly closely to my noble friend Lord Soames, who gave what I thought was a powerful and excellent speech. I congratulate the Government on resuming the funding of UNRWA. I never understood why my Government withdrew it, frankly, and I agree that we should do much more to stop the illegal settlements, which are illegal in their violation of international law. We must throw our weight behind a two-state solution. Over the past five to 10 years, I have had my doubts about a two-state solution, but I have now come back to the conclusion that it is the only viable way forward—a two-state solution guaranteeing the safety of the State of Israel. Equally, we must redouble all our efforts as part of that to bring home the hostages as quickly as we can.

A couple of days ago, I read in the Library a book called Beyond Britannia by the noble Lord, Lord McDonald, who was PUS at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, and it includes some extremely interesting points. I will raise two of them very quickly. One is that he asks which countries actually need a foreign policy, which is a bit that is worth reading. Do we need our own unilateral foreign policy? Another bit, with which I slightly disagree, is that he thinks that the UK could diverge away from the US in the case of the US taking military action over Taiwan. He thinks that relationship could survive were we not to; I am not so sure.

I remember that it is very difficult planning a foreign policy because so much of it is reactive. Many of us in this House will remember when Robin Cook came in as the Foreign Secretary and talked about having an ethical dimension; it is a rather difficult thing because that ethical dimension ended up with us being dragged into the Iraq War. But a Foreign Office needs to be practical; for that to be able to happen, it is absolutely vital that all the apparatus of state—in other words, the Foreign Office and our security and intelligence services—are properly funded around the world, and I hope that this Government will commit to do that in a way that others have perhaps not done so well in the past.

The situation with NATO remains the same. We want to keep America in, keep Russia down and keep China out. The relationship with Donald Trump is going to be absolutely critical if he gets in. Even if he does not, the House is going to be a Republican House; we are going to be dealing with the Republican Party, so we should stop making unwise comments about President Trump, which some, now in high positions of power, have done rather unwisely in in the past.

We have heard about AUKUS and I will talk briefly about it and the Commonwealth. The noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, was right, and I declare my interest as deputy chairman of the Commonwealth Enterprise and Investment Council. There is a coalition or coincidence of interests in that the forthcoming Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in October will be in Samoa in the Pacific. What a wonderful opportunity this will be for our new Prime Minister to meet the other 55 Heads of State, on the global stage, to discuss matters that relate to the Pacific and the Indo-Pacific tilt. The leaders of Australia, New Zealand, Canada and others will be there. It is a fantastic opportunity for the UK to articulate its vision.

What a wonderful and underused vehicle the Commonwealth is. Home to 2.5 billion people, 60% of whom are under the age of 30, the Commonwealth had a GDP of $13 trillion in 2021, set to increase to $19 trillion in 2027. It contains half of the world’s top 20 emerging global cities—New Delhi, Mumbai, Nairobi, Kuala Lumpur, Bangalore, Johannesburg, Kolkata, Cape Town, Chennai and Dhaka. It has a huge military force; India has the second largest army in the world, and, of course, Canada and Australia are key to our relations within AUKUS.

CHOGM in October is a huge opportunity. I hope not only that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary go but that they take the Defence Secretary with them as well to reinforce how important AUKUS and that part of the world are to us.

Ministry of Defence: Expenditure

Lord Swire Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister does his job extremely well. Can he clarify whether the Government are still fully behind the Storm Shadow missile programme? Will he use this opportunity to clarify whether those Storm Shadow missiles will be deployable within Russia?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

We are of course committed to the Storm Shadow programme. As the Prime Minister has made clear, under Article 51 of the UN charter Ukraine has a clear right of self-defence against Russia’s illegal attacks. That does not preclude striking military targets inside Russia, provided strikes comply with the law of armed conflict and international humanitarian law. As the Prime Minister said, it would be inappropriate to go into the operational detail of how Ukraine uses UK-provided systems. I should say to the noble Lord that that is exactly the same policy that the previous Government pursued.

Iran: Military Power

Lord Swire Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will know that we cannot go into any great detail on this sort of thing. However, we have a permanent presence in the area, as do our allies, and we maintain an integrated international force to act as a deterrent. We also use financial and other sanctions, disrupting supply chains for all forms of activity.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

What is my noble friend the Minister’s current assessment of those who are under threat, in this country, from Tehran directly or through its proxies?

Conventional Weapon Stocks: Expenditure

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The noble and gallant Lord knows only too well that procurement is really difficult when it comes to military assets. We had a conversation last week about appetite for risk, but getting SMEs involved at the correct level will always be quite tricky because of the scale of operation that we need to deal with weapons and munitions. However, it is absolutely a focus in the MoD to ensure that procurement is much more light-footed that it has been in the past.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, what is my noble friend the Minister’s assessment of Russia’s current conventional weapon stocks and its reliance, so we are told, on importing shells from North Korea?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, the Russian threat is paramount, and Russia must not on any account be allowed to prevail—there is no question about that, and the Government, the Opposition and everybody else are on the same page. Russia has ramped up its production capacity and has been using North Korean equipment, although its reliability is not quite clear. It is certainly something of which everybody is increasingly aware.