Bus Funding

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, the other day, I referred to the Harrogate Bus Company, and I think the Minister agreed with me that it is a good example of a company that has proceeded with environmental approaches, particularly the electrification of its fleet, and done some inspiring things. The formula that my noble friend Lord Moylan referred to seems to be rather rough and ready. Will the Minister confirm to me that, when we have an innovative approach taken by a bus company such as Harrogate, that in itself will result in some reward in terms of funding arrangements: some kind of compensation or at least some kind of acknowledgement of these initiatives, which so are important in the bus industry?

Aviation Safety (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Glenarthur (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation of this fairly deep document and all that it contains. I should declare an interest because I have many years’ experience, both as a military helicopter pilot in the 1970s and 1980 and in the late 1970s and 1980s with British Airways Helicopters, as they were. I have been for many years involved with the British Helicopter Association. It used to be the British Helicopter Advisory Board, of which I was chairman—I forget for how long but for about 12 to 15 years—and I have been president of the association for about 14 years.

Can the Minister confirm that the BHA, the British Helicopter Association, was consulted on these matters? Can he also expand on what is in these regulations about the potential viability of point-in-space operations, which apply particularly to aircraft conducting emergency service work, often in the Highlands and Islands or out to sea? Because of the unavailability of the European satellite system—which we were able to use but, now we are out of the EU, we cannot—the facility and flexibility for helicopters, and no doubt other aircraft as well, to use these particular forms of approach is now put in peril. I know consideration has been given to this, but I very much hope that something can be done. One of the last points I should like to make is that the flexibility of the helicopter to undertake operations in that sort of way is unique. Those of us who have been involved with the emergency services and other areas would hate to see that diminished in any way, because science has moved on enormously since I became involved in it all in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I hope that the Minister can give some comfort to me on that.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I want to intervene briefly. I declare my interests. I am a holder of a current private pilot’s licence and a former director of one of our airports. This is a particularly interesting set of measures. I want to ask just a couple of questions and point out one or two things.

Of course, we all welcome the improvement in technology. Technology has come to the aid of, and provides a much safer environment for, those who pilot and operate planes, the airport operators themselves and, of course, passengers. But we are currently going through an enormous shortage of commercial pilots. Training is rightly being more elaborated, but I wonder whether we have sufficient facilities for training pilots in this country. I know it is slightly off beam, but my understanding is that a number of the major operators—I think easyJet is one—are having to train their pilots elsewhere because of a lack of training facilities here in this country. That is rather worrying and not good for this country’s economy. Will the Minister make a comment on that?

The Explanatory Memorandum refers to the instrument allowing general aviation, in which I partake,

“to make use of instrument flight rules”,

which have not been available before. I think we are all aware of the fact that this country is enormously dense when it comes to flying, and there is a lot of danger, particularly in a congested area such as the south-east of England. I published a report of an inquiry I did on lower-airspace controls because of this issue. Most of us involved in general aviation do not operate under the IFR; we operate mostly on a visual basis, although some of us do have instrument capabilities. This extension, referred to in the Explanatory Memorandum but to which I cannot find further reference—perhaps I am not looking sufficiently well at the text—does not seem to have been elaborated on much. I would be grateful if the Minister could comment further on that, perhaps after taking advice.

Other than that, I must say that I am very pleased that we are producing these regulations and maintaining our international standing in aviation.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, unlike my two noble friends, I do not have a pilot’s licence—I will not respond to the shortage referred to by my noble friend Lord Kirkhope by applying for one—but I was caught, as I went through the document, by Regulation 4(21). It says:

“‘fuel scheme’ means a scheme for the use of fuel or energy that is a basic fuel scheme, a basic fuel scheme with variations or an individual fuel scheme”.

That is amplified in the Explanatory Note, where apparently energy is added to fuel. It says:

“The concept of ‘energy’ is a new addition throughout the amendments to allow for the use of non-hydrocarbon-based fuels in future”.


On page 7 of the impact assessment, in paragraph 15, we have this explanation:

“In addition, this proposal also introduces the concept of alternative fuel or energy sources other than hydrocarbon-based fuels. Without this change, UK operators will not be able to take advantage of technological advances in the production of alternative propulsion sources for aviation”.


COP 29 is under way at the moment, and I understand that the airline industry is committed to net zero by 2050. It is therefore quite important that we know a bit more about these alternative propulsion sources. My understanding is that sustainable aviation fuels are already available, but is it the case that up to now it has not been legally possible to use these SAFs, because we have not made the change yet and without this change UK operators will not be able to take advantage of technological advances? My understanding is that Virgin Atlantic is trialling plant-based fuels and that recycling cooking oil is one of the alternatives. Is it the case that at the moment one cannot blend sustainable aviation fuel with conventional hydrocarbons but after this instrument we will be able to? Can the Minister say a bit more about the progress being made? Net zero by 2050 is quite a tough target because the aviation industry is one of the tougher ones in which to remove hydrocarbons, so I would appreciate hearing a bit more about what the current position is—the legality of using SAF at the moment—and the prospects of hitting our target by 2050.

Carbon Emissions: Bus Fleets

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble Baroness will know that bus operations across England are generally managed by operators, and they ensure that depots are configured to accommodate their fleet. It is they who must apply to distribution network operators for grid connections. The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero announced that the newly formed National Energy System Operator has been asked to produce the first strategic spatial plan for energy, and it is also looking at reforming the connection process. Both those actions will help bus operators—it is their investment in their depots that enables electric buses to run.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

Will the Minister join me in congratulating the Harrogate Bus Company, which is electrifying its fleet at the moment? It is not only electrifying its buses but bringing in innovative arrangements for charging en route—a very noble effort.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Lord that actions such as those taken in Harrogate to electrify bus fleets have real benefits. The innovative technology example, which allows charging in the course of a journey, is also to be lauded.

Local Bus Sector

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. It is a subject that has engaged the bus and railway industries for generations. In fact, it is more likely that the bus will have to alter its timetable to suit the railway, because the railways are a national, integrated system, but he is right to suggest that the opportunity arises as a consequence of the Government’s proposals for Great British Railways and for buses as part of a more integrated public transport service across the entire country. The Government will do their best to make sure those opportunities are built on.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, my colleagues and I are concerned about the amount of pollution which diesel buses in particular present. We used to have trams and vehicles that were run on electricity. Can the Minister confirm what the Government are doing to encourage better environmental standards in buses and other means of public transport?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The programme to reduce emissions from the bus fleet has been carried out by successive Governments over many years. There is no doubt at all that government intervention has created both cleaner diesel buses, which now meet that Euro 6 standard, and an increasing fleet of electric buses, which are the modern equivalent of tram-cars. This Government hope to continue that, subject to funding, because it is clearly a very important contribution to air quality in urban and other areas.

Mail Carriage by Rail

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 22nd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The mode of transport chosen by Royal Mail is an operational decision, over which Ministers and the regulator have no role under postal regulation. It has emphasised the low-carbon credentials of its road fleet, using electric vans and biofuel in HGVs to reduce emissions. However, I have already encouraged Royal Mail, and will continue to encourage it, to take an ambitious approach to the wider use of rail freight as part of its commitments to net zero and to reducing congestion our roads, including exploring the innovative and growing express rail freight sector. I assure your Lordships’ House that, in my new role as rail Minister, I will be championing the role of freight on our railways.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

Will the Minister please respond to the concerns of many people in this country who feel threatened by the changes involved in the new proposals for the daily delivery of domestic letters and parcels to our houses? Will he comment on the proposals to diminish this service?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

In respect of the carriage of mail by rail, my department officials are working closely with officials from the Department for Business and Trade. I would be happy to take the noble Lord’s comments back to both departments. I have to say that this is still an operational decision for Royal Mail, over which Ministers and the regulator have no role under postal regulation.

Public Bus Collisions

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I note the noble Baroness’s comments.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, there are concerns, and this issue arises from a Question we had about road safety. In view of some recent unsatisfactory accidents, is any consideration being given to obliging cyclists, particularly those on e-cycles, to have proper accident insurance in place, and to follow speed limits, like all other users of the road?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, like all road users, cyclists are required to comply with road traffic laws in the interests of the safety of other road users. This is also reflected in the Highway Code. Dangerous cycling is completely unacceptable, and that is why there are already strict laws in place for cyclists who break the law. The police have the power to prosecute if these are broken.

Driving Licence: Young and Newly Qualified Drivers

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 15th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right; I cannot disagree with her. That is why the Government have commissioned the young driver research piece, the Driver 2020 project, and I hope that it will produce some suggestions as to how we may deal with this.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I want to apologise to the House. About a year ago, I got up and claimed that insurance and other details said that women drivers were substantially better drivers than men, and I wanted to argue their case. Sadly, within 24 hours of my asking that question, two female members of my family committed minor offences in motor cars. I therefore wish to ask my noble friend to try to justify my position by indicating that between young drivers—young people of both sexes—young women drivers are safer drivers for insurance purposes than young men.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I am afraid I am not in a position to comment on that. What I can say, on a very serious point, is that, overall, the figures for 2022 are that one fifth of all car collisions resulting in death or serious injury involved young drivers aged between 17 and 24. In 2022, 1,365 young car drivers were killed or seriously injured. Young male car drivers aged 17 to 24 are four times as likely to be killed or seriously injured compared with all car drivers aged 25 or over.

Flying Schools: Liquidation

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is, I believe, honorary president of BALPA. I am sure he will be reassured to know that I met BALPA, the airline pilots’ union, on 19 September alongside the CAA to discuss this issue. A number of ideas were taken forward but it is clear that we need to improve the guidance and information available to trainee pilots such that the amounts of money handed over are not excessive, because they do not need to be. There is a significant amount of competition in the flying school market. If a candidate is asked to hand over too much money, frankly, he or she should potentially look elsewhere.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, as one of those who benefited from learning to fly at a municipal flying school, I am concerned that a number of flying schools are ceasing to trade. I wonder therefore whether my noble friend can do more to encourage our UK-registered airlines; in particular, to make sure that they train their future pilots at UK flying schools rather than at flying schools in other parts of the world.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As my noble friend is aware, the aviation sector and the flying school sector are private sectors. I reassure him that we have had a number of conversations with airlines around the need for skills, including new pilots. The airlines do not currently see a pressing pilot shortage; however, I am very pleased that both British Airways and TUI now have cadetship programmes in place. That is great for supporting new trainees, but also really good for increasing diversity.

Bus Industry Support

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness has written to me about this and I have responded. I cannot quite understand what might be going on in her area. It is fairly simple: if it is a Section 22 community transport service that is open to other people, concessions are allowed and the £2 bus fare applies. If it is a closed service under Section 19 that is not open to everybody then, rightly so, the national provisions do not apply. If she has any further information, I would be very happy to look into it.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, raised the question of the bus industry. This is an opportunity for us to congratulate the bus manufacturers of this country—whether Alexander Dennis in Scotland, Wrightbus in Northern Ireland or Optare in Yorkshire—which are producing world-leading buses and using the latest technology in hydrogen power as well as battery electrics to lead the world on behalf of this country. Can we congratulate them?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We can congratulate them; they do a fantastic job. Noble Lords will have seen that the Government announced £25 million of funding for zero-emission buses only recently—I believe that all the £25 million in funding went to Wrightbus in Northern Ireland, which has seen astonishing growth in jobs and skills and should be congratulated.

Northern Ireland and Great Britain: Regional Connectivity

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend will be well aware that the Government have limited levers when it comes to slots. However, there are some things that we can do. Slots are allocated by an independent slots co-ordinator. We set out in Flightpath to the Future that we would consult on some elements of slots reform. We still intend to that and, in doing so, we will consider very carefully regional connectivity and how we can ensure that slots are available.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I want to take my noble friend back to the question of slots. There is a lot of concern that when an airline fails the slots are often sold off at an enormous price, which excludes other, smaller airlines from taking up the routes that that airline has had to leave behind. Will she confirm that the Government are interested in that and will do everything they can to deter that practice?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not able to confirm that we will do everything we can to deter that practice because, of course, historic rights to slots are an asset and when an airline fails, those slots can be transferred for a sum to another party and that money can be used to pay creditors. What I can commit to my noble friend is that, for example, the Flybe slots are part of a competition remedy and cover specific routes, which means that any operator can apply to the slots co-ordinator to take up those slots for those specific routes.