Brexit: Disabled People

Lord Henley Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Henley) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, for her request that I answer quite as many questions as she put to me. She will be faintly disappointed that, because of time constraints, I will be unable to answer absolutely everything that has come forward in the course of this debate, but I will certainly give an assurance that I will write to all noble Lords giving answers to questions that I cannot touch on in the necessarily brief speech that I have time to make.

I also offer my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, for giving us the opportunity for at least airing—I think that is the best word—this subject initially on this occasion and acknowledging the deep concern felt all around the House. I hope that I can deal with some of the misconceptions and fears that have been expressed. I also want to give an assurance to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, my noble friend Lord Borwick, and others that, first, there will be considerable consultation as and when appropriate, as there always has been by the department that I have had the privilege of rejoining after so many years.

I also give an assurance again, particularly to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, that there will be considerable scrutiny by Parliament of these matters. She might find that she gets rather sick of the scrutiny by the end, because we all know that there will be scrutiny this Session, and possibly once we get the great reform Bill next Session, and the Session beyond. She will acknowledge that our strong parliamentary system provides more than enough opportunities for parliamentary scrutiny both in this Chamber and in the other Chamber—where the Bill has already started and will be coming here after our break—and through the inquiries being conducted by a great number of Select Committees in another place. I am thinking particularly of the recent inquiry from the Women and Equalities Select Committee on ensuring strong equalities legislation. That will provide the appropriate scrutiny for these matters that the noble Baroness rightly seeks.

I start by stating clearly that this Government have a firm commitment, made clear in our manifesto and later on, to maintaining the United Kingdom’s strong and long-standing record of protecting the rights and traditional liberties, and to supporting disabled people to fulfil their potential. The decision to leave the European Union does not change this, and officials in the Department for Work and Pensions, in which I have the honour of serving, and in other departments will be working closely with all colleagues, and particularly with the Department for Exiting the EU, to ensure that the impact on disabled people is considered fully.

I can assure the House of the protections covered in the Equality Act 2010, which we should remember—I shall not say merely, because it added more things—consolidated all previous legislation. We have legislation going back a long way to the ground-breaking Disability Discrimination Act 1995. I was grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, for mentioning the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, on which she made her maiden speech. That Act predates our accession to the EU by some years, which shows how long we have been involved in this field, in which we have a long and proud history.

The right reverend Prelate used those very words when he said that we had a proud history. He wants us to be a world leader. I can give an assurance that we are a world leader. We were a world leader with legislation such as the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, and we will continue to be a world leader. I hope that the right reverend Prelate will see that stepping forward yet slightly further with the Improving Lives Green Paper. That is something we are committed to do, and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and others have made clear their commitment in this field.

As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister stated in her speech on 17 January, the Government will continue to work to ensure that the UK is a fairer society. I am sure that the whole House agrees that that should include disabled people to ensure that they have the right support and full access to opportunities provided by my department and other departments. We were reminded by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, that we made a manifesto commitment to halve the disability employment gap. That commitment is evidence of the importance the Government place on their duty to support disabled people to fulfil their potential. We intend to meet that commitment as far as possible.

Having a disability should not determine the path someone is able to take in life—in or out of the workplace. What should count is a person’s talent and desire to succeed. It is good to be able to report that, in terms of that commitment, we have already seen 600,000 more disabled people in employment than in 2013, and that is progress and an example of where we are going. The problem is that employment in other areas has also gone up and, therefore, the gap has not narrowed as much as it should, but we are going in the right direction and the fact that we have more disabled people in employment is a good thing. We want to see the gap narrow as well—but narrow while both are going up, rather than narrow while they go down. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, would accept that this is the aim that we should pursue.

Since the new Disability Confident scheme launched on 2 November 2016, we have seen more than 3,500 employers sign up to it, including some big employers such as Jaguar Land Rover, Barclays, Channel 4 and Fujitsu. They all recognise the important point that the talent and skills that disabled people can bring to their organisations should be recognised. This improving picture is very encouraging, although there remains much more to be done. That is why the Improving Lives Green Paper, which I touched on, seeks to start a far-reaching national debate by: working even more widely to change employers’ attitudes; trying to get systems across the department and the health service—obviously we have to work across government—working together better; encouraging everyone to focus on disabled people’s strengths and abilities; and introducing an accessible information requirement for local buses.

As I said, we have a proud history of leading the way internationally. If one looks at, say, the EU standards for making rail vehicles accessible, they are modelled on our own UK standards. To give one small parochial example, our very own city of Chester won this year’s European Union Access City Award. Through our international development aid work, the UK actively helps other countries to support disabled people. We recently joined the International Disability Alliance to create the Global Action on Disability group to stimulate more action on disability globally. I can assure the House that this Government will continue working towards the best possible outcome for all the people of the United Kingdom, which obviously includes people with disabilities.

There has been considerable concern about the impact of immigration changes to the recruitment of carers and workers from the EU—as raised by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell; others have also touched on it—and I understand the concerns. The precise way in which the Government will determine how to control the movement of EU nationals to the UK after Brexit has obviously yet to be determined. We are considering very carefully the options open to us, following Brexit, to gain more control. As part of that, it is important that we understand the impact of any changes that we make on the different sectors of the economy and the labour market, including on health and social provision. But I assure the House that this is a matter that will be foremost in our minds in negotiations and thereafter.

The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, also touched on the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights. I can assure him that there is no intention whatever to withdraw from the Council of Europe, and we will still be subject to the European Court of Human Rights which, as the noble Lord knows, has nothing to do with the EU. That court long predates our membership of the EU but is possibly one of those popular misconceptions that should have been laid to rest many years ago—I see that the noble Lord and one or two others nodded at that. I can also give an assurance that we will continue our commitment to the UNCRPD; there is no question of any change in procedure on that.

I appreciate that there are a great many other questions on which I will need to write to noble Lords. The nature of these debates, as I said at the beginning, allows us to air the subject only briefly, so I shall therefore be writing a number of letters. I again express my gratitude to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, for bringing this Question to the House today and thank all other noble Lords for their excellent contributions.

Ensuring that disabled people have the support that they need and the opportunities to fulfil their potential continues to be an incredibly important issue. It is one that the Government have repeatedly demonstrated their commitment to, as did previous Governments—it is a commitment that this and previous Governments can all be proud of. I can confirm that officials in my department are already engaged in those discussions that I mentioned with officials in other departments to ensure that disability issues are given due consideration. Exiting the European Union, whatever our future relationship with the EU, will not diminish that commitment to making the United Kingdom an accessible, equal and fair society.

Child Poverty Unit

Lord Henley Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government why they have abolished the Child Poverty Unit which was sponsored by the Department for Work and Pensions, the Department for Education and HM Treasury.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Henley) (Con)]

My Lords, tackling child poverty and disadvantage is a priority for this Government, and we are convinced that there is a better approach than the one driven by the Child Poverty Act 2010 income-related targets. This is why we replaced them with statutory measures of parental worklessness and children’s educational attainment—the two areas that can make the biggest difference to children’s outcomes. We will build on these measures through our forthcoming Green Paper on social justice.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, that does not actually answer the Question. The abolition of the cross-departmental unit is widely seen as downgrading and weakening the government machinery dedicated to the eradication of child poverty. Could the Minister explain how the abolition of a cross-departmental unit co-sponsored by the Department for Education is consistent with the Government’s own analysis of the root causes of poverty as partly lying in children’s educational achievement? Surely their own approach, which rejects what they call a narrow income-based approach, strengthens rather than weakens the case for a cross-departmental unit.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am terribly sorry to say this, but I think I did answer the Question directly. What was the purpose of the child poverty unit? Its purpose was to measure the income-related targets set up by the previous Government. Those targets were a waste of time and we got rid of them. We have now set up something better—the Social Mobility Commission secretariat, based in the Department for Education. As I said in my original Answer, the appropriate measure for these things should be parental worklessness—a responsibility of the Department for Work and Pensions—and children’s educational attainment, and those are the two that we will look at.

[Lord Bird (CB)]

Have the Government measured in any way the impact on people who fail at school and their relationship to child poverty? Are there any facts and figures so that we can chart whether the policies that the Minister is talking about actually work?

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[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord the precise figures he asks for, but what I can say is that we have a secretariat based in the Department for Education looking at these matters, and that goes across the department. If there are any appropriate figures, I would be more than happy to send them to the noble Lord and set out just why, as I made clear in my original Answer, I think that this approach is better than the original measures of child poverty.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, it is encouraging that the Government have committed to make and measure progress against the root causes of poverty—not only worklessness and educational failure, but also family breakdown, addiction and problem debt. Can the Minister inform this House what progress they have made in developing the additional measures and policies promised?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, focusing these matters on the Social Mobility Commission secretariat is, I believe, the right way forward. As I also made clear in my original Answer, we will publish a social justice Green Paper shortly. I hope that that will set out what we hope to do, and we look forward to my noble friend’s comments, and those of others, on it. I say again, as I said in my original Answer, that I believe the focus on worklessness and a child’s educational attainment is the proper measure of these matters.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, the evidence shows that the last Labour Government lifted 1 million children out of poverty. That record is unarguable. The Resolution Foundation has estimated that in 2016 alone, 1 million more children, mostly from working households, have been forced into poverty. How on earth can any Government be proud of such a record, particularly one who say that they are in favour of those who are just about managing?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, on the measures that the previous Labour Government set forward, we found that in a recession the number of children allegedly in poverty went down, and when incomes were rising, it went up. They were not measuring the right thing. On current measures, using households below average income surveys, we have seen 100,000 fewer children in relative low-income households and 300,000 fewer people in relative poverty. Those figures are before housing costs. We are making progress, and I made it clear in my original Answer that the original measures were not the right way forward and that the child poverty unit was not the right approach.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister surely agrees that no child should live in poverty. He might not have any figures but the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates that we will see a 50% increase in child poverty in the UK. That is a shocking figure. Perhaps I could be helpful and turn to my area of responsibility: education. The pupil premium has been immensely successful in helping disadvantaged children. Would the Minister let us know, perhaps in writing, whether the electronic eligibility checking system has increased or decreased the number of children who have now been given the pupil premium? I realise that this is not his area.

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[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the noble Lord asks me to write to him with those figures and I am more than happy to do as I do not have them in my brief.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, according to the most recent survey, rent arrears are a serious problem for 85% of new universal credit claimants, which is, of course, a disaster for children in those families? What plans does he have to cut the six-week average waiting time for families to get their rent when they claim benefits, change the system of payment in arrears, particularly for rent, and enable tenants to have the rent element of universal credit paid direct to landlords to prevent these debts arising?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, these matters were discussed at some length during the passage of the then Welfare Reform and Work Bill last year, and I do not want to rehearse all those arguments. However, I can assure the noble Baroness that some 90% of work benefits were paid on time. We accept that there can be problems with delays for some, and we will deal with that where appropriate. I do not believe it is right that we should start paying benefit direct to landlords. Just as people in work have to pay their rent to landlords, it is right that people on benefit should have the same opportunity.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, I know the Minister will agree that no child chooses to live in poverty, so when a child is hungry or lives in poor housing, will the Minister and the Government recognise that these are our children, as a society, and that that means we must have good joined-up structures which tackle these issues? Does he also recognise that the abolition of the CPU does not hint at good joined-up structures?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am very grateful to see the right reverend Prelate; in fact I am very grateful to see quite so many most reverend Primates and right reverend Prelates on this occasion. May I assure the right reverend Prelate that we are committed to tackling poverty? We accept that no child has a choice in this matter, but we also say that we have joined-up government on this matter. We have the Social Mobility Commission secretariat based in the Department for Education, which looks at these issues cross-party. We have a social reform Cabinet Committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, that includes all the other crucial members of the Cabinet. As the right reverend Prelate and the whole House will know, the Prime Minister herself has made clear her commitment to dealing with such matters.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, I have one very quick question. The Minister said that when the Government abolished our child poverty targets, they were going to replace them, the Prime Minister then said, with a life chances strategy. We finally discovered in December that it had died before it was even born, the debate of the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, notwithstanding. Now the Minister mentions a social justice Green Paper in the new year. Can he tell me two things: when will we get it and what is he going to do in the meantime about the scandal of child poverty in Britain?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, as I made clear in all the answers I have given, we are making progress on child poverty. We are doing so by using the proper measures, unlike the measures put forward by the previous Government. The noble Baroness asked when we will have the Green Paper: shortly.

Pension Schemes Bill [HL]

Lord Henley Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Henley]

Clause 11, page 7, line 16, at end insert—
“( ) The regulations may include provision— (a) setting out requirements relating to the audit of accounts;(b) applying some or all of the provisions of Parts 15 and 16 of the Companies Act 2006 (accounts and report; audit), with or without modifications.”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Henley) (Con)]

My Lords, this is a technical amendment and simply clarifies the scope of the regulation-making power in Clause 11 to ensure it meets the policy intention. Clause 11(4) provides that the Secretary of State may make regulations setting out requirements relating to a scheme funder’s accounts. The Government have always intended that the power would enable regulations to be made requiring scheme funders to produce full audited annual accounts, if they are not otherwise required to do so—for instance, in accordance with the Companies Act 2006. This is set out in the delegated powers memorandum, which has been published. However, it was brought to our attention that specific provision about audit in existing legislation might cast doubt on the breadth of the power, so this amendment is intended to put that position beyond any doubt.

The Secretary of State will be able to require in regulations, where appropriate, that scheme funders’ accounts must be audited. This is an important clarification because the scheme funder’s accounts, along with the scheme accounts and the business plan, will provide key financial information on which the Pensions Regulator will base its assessment of the master trust’s financial sustainability. The scheme funder’s accounts will enable the regulator to monitor the scheme funder’s financial position and assess the strength of any financial commitment to the master trust set out in the business plan. Requiring the accounts to be audited ensures that the scheme funder’s financial position is independently verified by a qualified auditor.

The amendment makes it clear that the regulation-making power may be used to apply some or all of the provisions in Parts 15 and 16 of the Companies Act 2006, which relate to the preparation and auditing of accounts and other related matters in respect of different types of scheme funders. Having this flexibility will enable the Secretary of State to take account of the range of master trust structures and financial arrangements with their scheme funders.

Before I conclude, I offer my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, and other noble Lords who have taken part in the debate for the generally positive approach they have taken during the passage of the Bill. I appreciate that my noble friend Lord Freud has already offered his thanks to all who have been involved in the Bill. However, as he moves on to pastures new, I echo those thanks and offer my thanks to him and to my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham for the help they have given me and for ensuring that I was appropriately briefed for this final and, I hope, rather short stage. We all trust that another place will be able to give it equally effective scrutiny, as it always manages to do.

To conclude, the amendment is intended to ensure that the scope of the regulation-making power in Clause 11(4) is wide enough to enable the policy to operate as intended. On that basis, I beg to move.

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[Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab)]

My Lords, I begin by welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Henley, to his role, even at this 12th hour on the Bill.

We certainly do not oppose the amendment. As explained, it is intended to put beyond doubt the ability to introduce regulations relating to audit, particularly in relation to scheme funders, which under the Companies Act are not required to provide audited accounts. Perhaps for the record the Minister can set out the nature of scheme funders which might fall into this category. Presumably they could be partnerships, entities incorporated overseas or smaller entities, although I am not sure how they might feature in these arrangements. Can he also tell us whether it is planned to use these powers differentially in respect of scheme funders that fund benefits other than money purchase benefits? As an adjunct to that, we very much share the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, about how Clause 11, as it will now be, will work.

As the Bill passes to the other place, it is time to offer our thanks to the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, for the courteous and inclusive manner in which he has handled the Bill. We look forward to the same from the noble Lord, Lord Henley, on subsequent Bills. We have already given our thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for the role that he played. This is a narrow Bill but one with significant implications, which is why we want to see it make speedy progress. It has not been the easiest Bill to scrutinise, given the combination of the technical nature of its subject matter and the raft of regulation-making powers that it contains, but we have seen a Government in listening mode in some respects—although of course not all, and the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, identified some of those.

I should take this opportunity to thank my noble friends who have participated in our deliberations—in particular, my noble friend Lady Drake for the expertise and precision that she has brought to our work. We trust that the important amendment concerning the scheme funder of last resort which she pressed on the Government will endure.

I also express our thanks to the Liberal Democrats, led by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, the government Back Benches for their constructive approach, and indeed the Cross Benches. We have seen a Bill team who are thoroughly on top of their brief and have patiently spent time explaining to us aspects of the Bill which might otherwise have fallen on stony ground. Taking this matter forward now falls to the tender mercies of our colleagues in the other place.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their very kind words and in particular, the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for his high expectations of me in replacing my noble friend Lord Freud. If I do only half as well as my noble friend, I think I will be doing pretty well—I hope the House accepts that I will try my best. I can also confirm to the noble Lord that impact assessments will be updated for the new regulations. The timing for the formal consultation on the draft regulations will obviously depend on a number of factors, but we would expect that the initial consultation will take place some time in the autumn of this year.

I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, for not opposing the amendment. He had a number of questions, particularly in relation to scheme funders and I would prefer to write to him about those. He also asked whether the Government were going to table an amendment on scheme funders of a master trust that offers both money purchase and non-purchase benefits. I can confirm that they intend to table such an amendment and that can be a matter for another place.

My noble friends Lord Naseby and Lady Altmann raised concerns that go wider than this simple amendment, which merely relates to audit. Those matters can be considered and no doubt, will be noted by my noble friends when they take this Bill through another place. As I said in my introductory remarks, I expect another place, as always, to look at this Bill with its usual due diligence and I am sure that it will take note of the comments made by both my noble friends. If it can assist them, I shall try to write to them before that, but everything they have said will be noted by my honourable and right honourable friends. With that, I echo the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, in thanking all those who have been involved in this Bill.

Amendment agreed.