Postal and Parcel Services (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Lord Henley
That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 29 October be approved.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
The Government are confident that an agreement on EU exit will be achieved, but, as I said earlier, we must be prepared for all outcomes. If the UK leaves the EU without an agreement in place, these regulations will provide legal clarity for the regulator and postal operators. These draft regulations are made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, and correct deficiencies in the statute book associated with exiting the EU.
The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee agreed with the Government’s recommendation that these regulations should follow the negative resolution procedure, when the draft was originally presented in July. However, at the time, the European Statutory Instruments Committee in another place felt that further explanation was required regarding the changes that these draft regulations present because of exiting the EU, and recommended that the draft regulations should be upgraded to the affirmative procedure. The Government accepted that recommendation.
If approved, the regulations would not change the operation of postal and parcel services beyond the changes that are necessary to ensure the regime is fully functional on exit day. There are four necessary changes. First, they amend the Postal Services Acts 2000 and 2011, to remove or replace references to EU obligations which will no longer apply once the UK leaves the EU. They also remove provisions which impose duties to notify the European Commission. Secondly, they remove from statute the Postal Services Regulations 1999, which implemented Article 22 of the postal services directive and required member states to designate a national regulatory authority for the postal sector. Thirdly, they revoke the European Commission’s decision of 10 August 2010 that established the European Regulators Group for Postal Services—the ERGP. Finally, they revoke Regulation 2018/644 on cross-border parcel delivery services. I will explain each in turn.
The Postal Services Acts 2000 and 2011 set out the minimum requirements of the UK’s universal postal service. The amendments to primary legislation governing postal services in these regulations will not affect the UK’s universal postal service. These regulations ensure that any remaining obligations under retained EU law are maintained in the Postal Services Act 2011 and remove redundant provisions. The regulations also remove obligations of the EU postal services directive, such as sharing information with the European Commission, because the UK will no longer be subject to the directive’s provisions or to the authority of the European Commission after we leave the EU.
The Postal Services Regulations 1999 designate Ofcom and the Secretary of State as the UK’s national regulatory authorities for postal services, a requirement of the postal services directive. Duties and functions of Ofcom and the Secretary of State relating to postal services are set out in the Postal Services Acts 2000 and 2011, so there is no longer a requirement to “designate” them under separate regulations.
The 1999 regulations will become redundant when the UK leaves the EU and are revoked in full by these regulations. The European Commission decision of 2010 established the European Regulators Group for Postal Services. The group consists of national regulatory authorities of member states. It provides advice to the European Commission and aims to facilitate consultation and co-operation between national regulatory authorities of member states.
Ofcom is a member of the group as the UK’s national regulatory authority. After we leave the EU, the UK will no longer hold membership status, as it will cease to be an EU member state, and therefore Ofcom will not be entitled to participate formally as a member of the group. The regulations therefore revoke this EU decision which contains a list of members, one of them being the UK.
The withdrawal from the ERGP was an issue of interest for the House of Commons sifting committee. The House requested further information on the effect of the UK’s non-participation in the ERGP and any alternative future arrangement. Ofcom intends to seek permanent observer status after the UK has exited the EU, in the way that NRAs of the European Economic Area states, Switzerland and EU candidate countries participate at present. Although observer status would remove Ofcom’s right to vote, the impact would likely be minimal given the co-operative nature of the forum. The group generally makes decisions based on consensus. If required, issues that would be voted on are the final work programme, published reports or opinions and the elected officials of the ERGP; that is, the chair and two vice-chairs. If granted observer status, Ofcom will still be able to engage in strategic discussions, negotiations and the sharing of best practice after we exit the EU.
I turn now to Regulation (EU) 2018/644 on cross-border parcel delivery services. The aim of this EU regulation, which came into force in May this year, is to increase regulatory oversight and price transparency of cross-border parcel delivery services within the EU. These regulations revoke the EU regulation in full. The EU regulation requires regular submission of information on cross-border parcel delivery services to the European Commission with the aim of publishing tariff information on member states’ cross-border parcel operators. This duty should no longer apply after the UK leaves the EU, as the UK will cease to be a member state and will no longer be subject to the authority of the European Commission. In any event, the principal information-gathering powers of Ofcom, the UK’s postal regulator, are provided under the Postal Services Act 2011. Ofcom already draws on this as part of its regulatory monitoring of postal services.
These regulations are a sensible and necessary use of the powers of the withdrawal Act, which will ensure that postal and parcel services continue to operate effectively after the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union. I commend them to the House.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. My understanding of this piece of legislation is that it pulls us out of retained EU law that will no longer be applicable on our withdrawal from the EU if we get no deal and crash out; unfortunately the noble Lord, Lord Framlingham, who asked the “crashing out” question, is no longer in his place. Again, there is no impact assessment. I take the point that the Minister made earlier but I ask for his patience and for assurances on a couple of issues. I am sure he will be able to supply them.
My first question relates to the directives that we are rejecting which opened up the sector to competition and defined a universal postal service as a right. What will the situation be post Brexit for remote communities, for which the universal postal service is vital, even though it might not be economically viable to provide? As the Minister said, Regulation (EU) 2018/664 increases price transparency and regulatory oversight of cross-border parcel delivery services. Can the Minister explain for the ignorant what difference this is likely to make to price transparency and the prices of cross-border parcels to and from the UK?
Finally, what do the Government assess will be the effect of removing us from these EU regulations? Will our ability to send and receive parcels cross-border be affected in the future? I am not asking the Minister to look in his crystal ball here, although it would be helpful if he had one to hand, but does he think that it will be harder or easier? The Government have produced no impact assessment, but how can there be no effect of withdrawing from this legislation?
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)
My Lords, again, I am very grateful to the Minister for the very full letter about this SI that I received last week. He covered all the points that he has made in his speech—and, in fact, a few more—and it was very useful in getting us ready for this debate.
However, there was one thing that I wanted to pick out relating to the Postal Services Regulations 1999, which were set to become redundant and will be revoked in full. I presume that the rationale for wishing to revoke them is that they are derived from an EU directive, I think, rather than a regulation, and they require member states to designate a national regulatory authority in the UK. In this case, Ofcom is the designated authority. The letter goes on to say that the functions of the Secretary of State and Ofcom in regulating the sector are set out in the Postal Services Acts 2000 and 2011, but I question whether the removal of the 1999 regulations, which designate Ofcom as a specific post of national regulatory authority in the UK, does not in some way discriminate against Ofcom as being the likely regulator for postal services in the UK. It is really a question of whether there will be any diminution in Ofcom’s authority as a result of this. I would be grateful for reassurance that there will be no change in substance, even though there will be a change in the legal basis on which it is appointed.
The noble Lord has spent a lot of time discussing the role of the ERGP and the future of that body with Ofcom as an attendee. It is an obvious point but attending is not the same as being a participant, and even though it is an informal body largely operating by consensus, there will still be a difference, so we will be a rule-taker and not a rule-maker in a very real sense. Again, I would like reassurance that there is no question that we will lose out in terms of how our postal services flow and our parcels are delivered in the future.
I have two further points. Like many noble Lords, I am sure, we have received a number of representations from those involved in cross-channel activities, particularly about getting access to goods and bringing them through the Channel Tunnel to make sure that markets in the UK are satisfied. Therefore, this is about inward goods but it is also about external goods. A lot of material flows out through the tunnel to other places, and a particular issue is time-sensitive goods. Is there anything that the noble Lord feels it appropriate to share with us, particularly in relation to recent comments by his colleagues in the Department for Transport about the difficulties in ensuring that goods move backwards and forwards? Would that impact on anything that these regulations should do? Time-sensitive goods are obviously the most important, such as fresh goods and other materials that need to arrive at a particular time. These will be affected by blockages and changes in the overall system. Where they are postal, additional regulatory authority and other issues may be engaged, and there may be costs involved that we are not yet aware of. I would be grateful for some comments on that.
Finally, paragraph 7.6 of the Explanatory Memorandum deals with Article 7 of the EU parcel delivery regulation. I recently saw documentation from the Institute for Government, which has been looking at the Government’s readiness for Brexit in the case of a no-deal crash out. One issue flagged as red, and therefore not ready, is parcels. Does the Minister have any information on that, given that it falls within his brief? Is there a problem here and, if so, is it something that he wishes to share with us? The Explanatory Memorandum makes the point that the EU parcel delivery regulation is largely covered by the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. It goes on to say:
“Therefore, the EU Parcel Delivery Regulation will become substantially redundant following the UK’s exit from the EU”.
But “substantially redundant” is not the same as “completely redundant”. Will the Minister spell out the differences that are envisaged?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their contributions to the debate. I hope I can answer the questions that have been put to me. Again, let me assure noble Lords that these amendments to primary legislation governing the postal services will have no impact whatever on the UK’s universal postal service and will preserve, as far as possible, the rights, responsibilities and protections offered by the existing system. They make only those changes necessary to ensure that the regime continues to be fully functional on exit day. As I said on previous regulations, this will increase legal clarity and be of benefit to national regulatory authorities, businesses and consumers.
The noble Baroness asked about the cost to the taxpayer. This will have minimal impact. The regulations qualified for the de minimis threshold, which means that direct impact on business or civil society organisations is less than £5 million annually, and as such a full regulatory impact assessment was not considered necessary. As I have made clear, we will continue to offer the same postal and parcel services throughout the United Kingdom as we do now, and as we do to remote communities. There will be no change in liabilities or obligations. Royal Mail will continue to deliver that universal service in line with requirements set out in domestic law.
The noble Baroness also asked what will happen as a result of revoking the cross-border parcel services regulation. Revoking that regulation will mean that the UK will not be required to share pricing information for cross-border parcel deliveries with the European Commission. Ofcom can request pricing information under the UK’s domestic provisions, which will mitigate any data gap between the UK and member states. There are also price comparison websites that provide information about prices for parcel deliveries from the UK’s service providers. Therefore, comparing prices for cross-border parcel services between the UK and EU member states will continue to be available to consumers.
The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, asked why the Postal Services Regulations 1999 are being revoked by these regulations. The 1999 regulations designated Ofcom and the Secretary of State as our national regulatory authorities for postal services, as was a requirement of the postal services directive, and that simply no longer applies after EU exit. In any event, the functions and duties of Ofcom and the Secretary of State relating to postal services are set out in the two Acts I referred to: the Postal Services Act 2000 and the Postal Services Act 2011. There is therefore no longer a requirement to designate them as the national regulatory authority under separate regulations.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
I may not have made myself entirely clear. This may be a point that is not worth exploring further, but just to be precise, the existence of the 1999 regulations requires the Government to appoint a single national regulatory authority for post, which is Ofcom. Removing that, as is proposed in these regulations, means that in theory it is possible for the Government to appoint other regulators to take over Ofcom’s rules and functions. I wondered if that was the implication and therefore whether there was any danger to Ofcom’s position.
Lord Henley
There will be no change in the position. There is no hidden agenda that a shadow Ofcom will be set up or some such other body. I can give that assurance to the noble Lord.
The noble Lord was also concerned about Ofcom’s new role on the European Regulators Group on Postal Services, and whether it was now, as he put it, a rule-taker rather than a full participant. I stress that the ERGP is just an advisory body. It does not make any binding rules or take any decisions. Leaving that and merely having an observer status will not have a detrimental impact on Ofcom’s ability to participate in it or its ability to regulate the postal sector and engage with other EU regulators. As I said, Ofcom wishes to have that observer status just to ensure that it can continue to participate to the full extent necessary.
The noble Lord also asked about customs arrangements and whether they might affect the post. We will obviously be engaging with businesses about new customs arrangements if the UK leaves the European Union without an agreement. The Government have published the customs White Paper and sent out technical notices. Royal Mail is working with HMRC to ensure that it is prepared for changes so that we can continue to operate in the same way after exit.
I hope that that deals with all the questions. As I said on the earlier regulations, the regulations do not represent a policy change to the operation of postal services and they preserve, as far as possible, the rights, responsibilities and protections offered by the existing system. I commend these regulations to the House.
Textile Products (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Lord Henley
The draft Regulations laid before the House on 10 and 22 October be approved.
Considered in Grand Committee on 21 November.
Textile Products (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Lord Henley
That the Grand Committee do consider the Textile Products (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, as the talks progress, we have now agreed in principle the terms of the UK’s orderly exit from the EU, as set out in the withdrawal agreement. We have also agreed the broad terms of our future relationship, as set out in the outline political declaration. This puts us close to a Brexit deal that takes back control of our borders, our laws and our money while protecting jobs, security and the integrity of the UK. However, it is our duty as a responsible Government to prepare for all eventualities, including no deal. This instrument is part of that contingency planning.
It is essential to ensure that our consumer legislation continues to function effectively after exit day. Maintaining a comprehensive framework of consumer rights is crucial for prosperity. Household expenditure accounts for around 60% of the UK’s economy. In 2016, retail sales stood at £800 million for textiles stores and £40 billion for clothing stores. Confident consumers help to raise productivity and deliver an economy that works for everyone.
These regulations will be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and were laid in draft before the House on 10 October. They amend EU regulation 1007/2011 on textile fibre names and related labelling and marking. The EU regulation prescribes the labelling or marking that must be applied to textile products to inform consumers of the products’ textile fibre composition and the presence of non-textile parts of animal origin, such as fur. It also empowers the EU Commission to approve new textile fibre names and modify technical provisions, such as testing methods. The EU regulation also modifies the textile product regulations 2012, which set out enforcement provisions for the EU regulation in the UK.
Lord Henley
My Lords, like other speakers, I offer thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for his blessing of this statutory instrument. We are grateful for that. I will deal with most of the points, but it might be that on one or two I need to write to noble Lords with further detail.
Like my noble friend Lady Byford, I understand the extreme importance of labelling, particularly for those with allergies but also those who have other concerns. My noble friend will be aware that, only recently, my noble friend Lord Gardiner and I gave evidence to the EFRA Committee in another place on fake fur and real fur. Some older Members of the Committee may remember a time when people would try to sell fake fur as real fur, whereas it is now the other way round. Given how animals are farmed in other parts of the world, real fur can often be a lot cheaper than fake fur, and in trying to buy fake fur a lot of people do not want to buy real fur. The point I was coming to is that we are currently bound by EU rules on labelling. Both my noble friend Lord Gardiner and I felt that the existing labelling of fur and fake fur was not necessarily quite as clear for the consumer as it should be, which sometimes led to individuals buying real fur or objects with a tiny portion of real fur in the trimming when they did not wish so to do. I agree with my noble friend that labelling is important but I also emphasise that these regulations are there only for a no-deal scenario, so that should there be no deal—I am confident that there will be—we can be in a position to make sure that we have the right arrangements in place.
The noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked who would exercise the Secretary of State’s powers when it came to enforcement. It is an important matter for local authorities and trading standards, but I can give an assurance that we provide funding to National Trading Standards of around £13 million a year, with £1.2 million a year for Trading Standards Scotland, for the co-ordination of regional and national trading standards in England, Wales and Scotland. I will have to write to him on why this is not a devolved matter. I still find it, as no doubt will the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, extraordinarily confusing as to which matters are devolved and which are not, as was the case when we recently debated the changing of clocks, which seems to be devolved in Northern Ireland but not in Scotland or Wales.
Lord Fox
I am slightly confused. For example, if I have invented a fabulous new fibre and wish to start using it in one of the Minister’s sweaters, do I pop into Hereford Town Hall and look for the trading standards person there? How do I know where to go? Who is the agent or person that I go to?
Lord Henley
I was trying to make it clear that local authorities deal with the enforcement. The noble Lord is asking about the labelling of his product. Perhaps I may write to him in great detail to make sure that I get exactly right who is exercising the powers of the Secretary of State and that he has the answer he seeks.
Lord Fox
While the Minister is writing, will he also explain what happens to existing fibres that are currently on a European ticket, so to speak? If they come in on your labels and have been improved in the European context, is jurisdiction over those fibres passed en bloc to that agency? What is the process, since the transfer of existing fibres to a new UK agency for their management does not appear to be allowed for in this SI?
Lord Henley
I will write in greater detail to the noble Lord, just to make sure that he is absolutely clear. In passing, on the question of correspondence, I give an assurance that from now on I will send all letters from my department on matters relating to SIs to the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord Fox: I will copy letters to one and the other. I am sorry if he has been confused: on some occasions I have written to the noble Lord and on others to the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester. I shall inform my office that in future it will be entirely himself. If the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, would like to receive those letters, I will send them to him too.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
In no sense was any blame to attach to the Minister personally: in fact, several of the ones that went to my noble friend Lord Grantchester were from his colleague Kelly Tolhurst. I got a couple from the Minister himself and my poor noble friend Lord McNicol got none.
Lord Henley
The poor noble Lord, Lord McNicol, got none, but I think I wrote to the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, on something. Anyway, between myself and my honourable friend Kelly Tolhurst we will look at our entire system and make sure that there is one recipient of all letters on the Official Opposition Front Bench and that similarly, the noble Lord, Lord Fox, will be a recipient of all other letters.
I move on to the question of the impact—the cost, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, put it. After exit, the responsibilities for UK manufacturers or a business sourcing textile products from UK manufacturers, or importing them from outside, will remain the same; it will be the same for manufacturers. Anyone importing products from manufacturers in the UK would be putting a textile product on the market and so would become responsible for ensuring that it contains the appropriate label or marking and that it is accurate according to the retained EU regulation. The practical impact of this will be limited. I think any impact on business will fall far below £5 million annually and, as a result, we do not believe that a full impact assessment is necessary.
On exit day, UK and EU labelling laws will remain highly aligned. Textile products imported from the EU will therefore be compliant with the shared requirements and the saved EU regulation does not mandate any costly technical testing or the production of documentation as proof of compliance. Similarly, there would be no administrative costs at the border to demonstrate compliance. Many businesses already undertake compliance activities as part of their due diligence programmes. That includes asking for proof of fibre composition or procuring their own fibre composition test. As a result, it is unlikely that businesses would need to put in place additional checks to demonstrate compliance with the saved EU regulation. The Government will, in due course, provide further guidance to businesses to ensure that they have understood the requirements of the saved EU regulation.
The noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked about applications for new fibres. Businesses wishing to introduce a new textile fibre name or manufacturing tolerance will be able to make this application to the Secretary of State. The Government will, in due course, publish further guidance, including the process by which the Secretary of State will assess the various applications. Lastly, I was asked: will businesses have to apply to both the United Kingdom and the European Commission to have a new fibre name approved for both UK and EU markets? Yes, in a no-deal scenario, it will no longer be appropriate for the European Commission to approve new textile fibres which can be made available on the EU market and therefore they will have to apply to both. I hope that will not be an onerous burden.
As I said, I remain optimistic, as always, that we will reach an agreement with the European Union, but it is important and prudent to have a regulatory and legislative framework in place should we leave without a deal. That is entirely what this instrument ensures.
Timeshare, Holiday Products, Resale and Exchange Contracts (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Lord Henley
That the Grand Committee do consider the Timeshare, Holiday Products, Resale and Exchange Contracts (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, I beg to move that the draft regulations, which were laid before the House on 22 October 2018, be considered.
These draft regulations will be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. They form part of the work being done to adjust our existing legislative framework in readiness for leaving the European Union next year. Obviously, the best outcome for the UK is to leave the EU with a good deal. If a deal—and therefore a withdrawal agreement—is reached, the implementation date of this instrument could be changed by any subsequent Bill that the Government introduce to implement the withdrawal agreement into UK law. However, it is sensible to prepare for all scenarios, which is what we are doing in bringing this instrument before this Committee today
The Timeshare, Holiday Products, Resale and Exchange Contracts Regulations 2010 transposed the 2008 EU directive on timeshare and long-term holiday products into UK law. The 2010 regulations improved consumer protection for those investing in timeshares across EEA states, aiming to improve consumer confidence in the industry. That was done through a number of new consumer rights and obligations on traders. Under the new rules, a consumer considering the purchase of a timeshare had always to be made aware of the key information in a standardised form in the language of the EEA state of which they were a national or resident. That new regime also extended consumer protections to a much broader range of holiday-related services, including resale, exchange and long-term holiday contracts, as well as timeshare contracts. These services are all characterised by long-term commitments of significant financial risks for consumers.
If approved, the regulations will make minor and technical amendments to the existing timeshare regulations to correct deficiencies that would arise from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union. The draft regulations now put before the Committee make amendments to references to EEA states and language requirements. These include amendments which ensure that contracts governed by UK law are still protected when the UK is no longer a member state of the EEA. They widen the scope of the regulations so that certain contracts governed by the law of an EEA state will now be subject to the same regime as contracts governed by the law of third countries. In addition, language requirements are amended so that key information must be provided in English.
In practice, most of the protections of the timeshare regulations 2010 will continue as currently, except that some contracts applying the law of an EEA state will now be subject to the same requirements as contracts applying the law of a third country.
Principally, this instrument saves the current regulations, so that they remain the same for UK consumers buying timeshares and other long-term holiday products in the UK and from UK companies where contracts are governed by the law of the United Kingdom.
Where UK consumers buy certain timeshares and other long-term holiday products governed by the law of EEA states, these contracts will now be treated in the same way as contracts applying the law of a third country, as EEA states will now be third countries.
The new regime will generally not cover contracts where UK consumers purchase timeshares and other long-term holiday products from EEA traders when they are in that EEA state. These contracts will be generally be subject to the laws of that EEA state. As UK consumers will no longer be citizens of an EEA state, then that EEA state’s law may not apply in the same way to UK consumers as it did previously.
Additional amendments have been made to correct legal deficiencies and substitute references to the EEA, including EEA states. This will ensure legal operability of the legislation on day one of exit.
Finally, the regulations will include provisions for the contract and mandatory pre-contractual information to be provided in English, as well as allowing for them to be in another language, whether or not it is an official language of an EEA state.
A comprehensive assessment of the impact of the instrument has been undertaken. The conclusions were that as this instrument does not represent a substantial policy change, it is expected to result in little or no wider impacts or transfers. The instrument is also expected to have minimal effect on UK businesses, UK consumers, the wider UK society, the environment and the rest of the UK economy. This is because, as I said, the effect of these regulations for timeshare and other long-term holiday products will generally remain constant.
In conclusion, the regulations are a sensible and necessary use of the powers of the withdrawal Act that will ensure that our consumer law continues to function effectively on exit day, and I commend them to the Committee.
Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)
My Lords, this is one of the more straightforward regulations. We can see that by the fact that we have lost my noble friend Lord Foulkes from our discussion. As was touched on, the main aim is to change references to “the EEA” to “the UK”, and similar changes in language from “official language of an EEA state” to “English”. At this stage, I cannot find much of substance to disagree with. However, I am sure my shadow BEIS colleagues may have some points to raise when this is discussed in the other place. Like my noble friend Lord Foulkes before me, I have just a couple of questions for the Minister.
First, much of the instrument deals only with replacing European references with domestic alternatives. However, the regulations will also ensure that contracts governed by the law of an EEA state will be treated in the same way as contracts governed by the law of non-EEA third countries. Did the Government consider any other option for EEA contracts?
Secondly, prior to the publication of this instrument, the Government chose not to carry out a consultation. This seems fair, considering the volume of secondary legislation and the relatively minor impact that this will have. However, it could be expected that the Government will have held informal conversations with those affected by the regulations. Will the Minister explain whether any such discussions, with industry or others, have taken place?
Thirdly, the Explanatory Memorandum claims that there is no impact on UK businesses. However, as a result of this instrument, businesses dealing with timeshares will surely have to acquaint themselves with the new regulations. Does the Minister not agree that, however minor, there will be some necessary adjustments for business to make?
Finally, on a similar note, does the Minister agree, like me, with the comments of his colleague the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions? This morning, she said that the UK will not be leaving on a no-deal Brexit as there is no majority in the other place for that to pass.
Lord Henley
My Lords, I remind the noble Lord that we had a referendum a couple of years ago and we agreed that we were leaving the EU. That was the manifesto that both the party I represent and the noble Lord’s party went to the country on in 2017. We are leaving the EU. It depends on what terms. These regulations are about dealing with the question: what will happen if there is no deal? We hope there will be a deal but if there is no deal, we want to make sure that the proper protections are there.
The noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked a number of questions which went slightly wider than the regulations in front of us. The important thing to say to anyone who is thinking of buying a timeshare, whether in this country or another, is that whatever they do, they must take all the proper legal advice. I have no plans, when I walk round a golf course on the Algarve—which I have never done and have no intention of doing—to buy a timeshare, but there are people who want to buy timeshares and they serve a purpose. Whatever they do, the important thing is to make sure that they are getting the right advice, either in this country, if they are buying it here, or in another country. I think we would all agree on that point. Where people have had problems, it is very often because they have bought in the manner that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, seemed to be suggesting—someone comes up to them while they are on holiday and makes this suggestion.
Now that we are leaving, what protection will UK consumers have when buying timeshares in Portugal? Obviously, it will depend on where the consumer bought the timeshare. UK consumers who buy timeshares under UK law will be covered by the protections in the existing timeshare regime. If they are buying timeshares in Portugal from Portuguese traders, they will generally be subject to Portuguese law and the protections that that member state extends to non-EEA nationals. Consumers will be encouraged to understand the specific conditions of the contract and to take all appropriate advice.
The noble Lord also asked: how do we prevent people being misled? Obviously, I share his concern for vulnerable consumers who are unfairly targeted by manipulative and misleading sales tactics in many industries, but particularly here. I believe that the current timeshare regime, reviewed and updated by the 2010 regulations, provides adequate protections for timeshare consumers. The regulations require that clear and comprehensive information is provided to the consumer before any contract is agreed; that information on termination must also form part of the contract; that timeshare buyers also have the option to change their mind within two weeks of signing a contract, during which no money can be taken; and so on.
The noble Lord, Lord McNicol, asked whether it was possible that there would be further changes. He will be aware that the European Union (Withdrawal) Act does not give us the powers to create any legislation or substantially change any retained EU legislation. The changes that this instrument would bring into effect are made in exercise of those powers, to remedy deficiencies in retained law and not to change the effect of retained law. But we know that many people have concerns about some of the protections. I can give an assurance to the noble Lord that my right honourable friend and others will always keep these matters under review if we feel that there are not the appropriate protections. This will always be a concern. The Government would act if necessary.
Lord Henley
I agree that resale is a vital point, because when one buys a timeshare one usually feels that one has an asset which, if it is to have value, should be able to be sold.
I was asked where the court of redress would be. If it was a Portuguese contract, the court of redress would be in the Portuguese courts. Perhaps I may double-check what the precise position would be in respect of something sold here that is in another place. If the noble Lord comes to a deal while sauntering around a golf course in the Algarve—so that is just a deal that he has made in Portugal—it is quite clear that the Portuguese courts will deal with it, but I had better write to the noble Lord on what the position would if he bought it here and it was in that EEA state to make sure that I get it absolutely correct.
I hope that that explanation is sufficient. As the noble Lord, Lord Fox, pointed out, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has now felt that he can depart, so I hope that we can move on.
Smart Meters
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Lord Lennie
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made on the roll-out of SMET2 smart meters.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, more than 12 million smart meters are operating across Great Britain, with more than 400,000 meters installed every month. As of Sunday 18 November—two days ago—industry information showed that more than 138,000 SMETS 2 meters were connected to the national smart metering network.
Lord Lennie (Lab)
I thank the Minister for that response. Yesterday, Which?, the consumers’ champion, published a report that stated that the Government’s £11 billion rollout of smart meters to hard-pressed customers is seriously behind schedule. To meet their target of a smart meter in every household and small business would now require 30 smart meters to be installed every minute of every day between now and the end of 2020. Currently less than one-third of that figure is actually taking place. In addition, the Government’s projected financial benefits to customers have been slashed from £47 a year to less than £1 a month. Can the Minister say what specific actions the Government are taking to both turn around the lamentable rollout performance and restore the projected financial benefits to customers?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I am aware of that report but, as I made clear in my original Answer, we are installing more than 400,000 meters every month and that figure is increasing. We are still confident that we will be able to ensure that by the end of 2020 every household in the country will have been offered a meter. That is the aim that we have set out. We are also still confident that we expect to see a net benefit of around £5.7 billion for the entire rollout—benefits for individual consumers as they get greater choice and the advantage of being able to monitor their electricity and therefore keep their bills down, and advantages to the companies themselves.
Lord Teverson (LD)
My Lords, perhaps it is worth reminding the House that this programme of smart meter implementation will cost the country £11 billion. Sure, we need the customer benefits in savings from that but we also need to use them to create a properly distributed energy system in this country. Can the Minister explain to me how SMETS meters will achieve that?
Lord Henley
SMETS meters will allow the consumers greater benefits in that it will be easier for them to switch supplier and to monitor their use. Therefore it will be easier for them to cut their consumption of electricity and we will see a reduction in energy use, with benefits to the consumer in the cost, and benefits to the country in lower carbon use. As I said, there will be a net benefit overall after that cost of some £5.7 billion.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that many if not all of the smart meters currently offered are such that they cannot work if the consumer switches from one supplier to another? That is a pretty good reason for not having a smart meter. I wonder whether the people organising Brexit are also organising the smart meters.
Lord Henley
My Lords, the companies have been installing the SMETS 1 meters and we are now moving on to SMETS 2. Changes happen when one moves from a SMETS 1 to a SMETS 2 but the same benefits will still be available when consumers switch supplier in due course, and they will be able to benefit from those. There will be a slight delay in that but by 2020, all those who switch will find that they have the same benefits on SMETS 1 as they have on SMETS 2.
Lord Watts (Lab)
My Lords, when it is 2020 and everyone has the smart meters, it will be possible for those smart meters to choose the lowest cost provider. If they do that, consumers will all swap to one provider and that will put the rest of the companies into bankruptcy, meaning there will be no competition at all.
Lord Henley
My Lords, I know that noble Lords opposite do not like competition but the advantage of this system is that it offers choice to the consumer and, as the noble Lord quite rightly says, will offer the ability for people to move on to an app that will allow them to choose the cheapest supplier. Once there is competition, I think the noble Lord will find that the 60 or 70 supplier companies involved will compete among themselves to offer the best possible deals.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that, as in the question from the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, this is putting a lot of people off taking smart meters? At what stage should I take a smart meter when I know that if I switch when my present contract runs out, I will not have to have a new smart meter fitted?
Lord Henley
I do not know whether the companies have approached my noble friend but I hope that she will take the opportunity to have one installed when her supplier offers her a company. She will find that when she has the SMETS 2, she will have the benefit of being able to switch without any difficulty. That will be available for SMETS 1 meters in due course.
Lord Rooker (Lab)
Can the Minister give a guarantee that the cybersecurity of the meters is absolutely 100%, and that they cannot be interfered with by any external force? Do the consumers get the knowledge that the pattern of their household living, on a minute-by-minute basis, is recorded by external powers which will later monetise that figure? I have refused twice and will continue to do so.
Lord Henley
It is entirely open to the noble Lord to refuse to have a meter, if he so wishes. All we are trying to ensure is that everyone is offered a smart meter if they should so wish, because we feel that to go on using metering technology that is somewhat over 100 years old is not the right approach and that new meters would be better. I can give him an assurance that GCHQ and other people have looked at the security of the smart meters and are satisfied that they are suitably secure.
Baroness Walmsley (LD)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that if you have solar panels on your roof, you cannot have a smart meter? I know that because I have tried several times and have been told that I cannot have a smart meter if I have solar panels, which we are all encouraged to have. Does he agree that unless a smart meter is developed that can work with solar panels, we are never going to have smart meters in every household in the country?
Lord Henley
I am afraid that what the noble Baroness says is a myth, but I will look at her case. There is no reason why one cannot have solar panels feeding into a smart meter and being taken into account. If the noble Baroness is having problems, she can come to me and I will look at them.
Artificial Intelligence (Select Committee Report)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, I start by offering my sympathy to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for the state of his voice. I think mine might be in the same state. It would be nice if all these scientists in AI, life sciences or wherever could do something for the common cold—I think that is a plea that many of us would put forward.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and congratulate him on his report. I am trying to think of the right word to use about being invited to appear in front of his committee with my right honourable friend Matt Hancock, who has since been promoted twice, whereas I have not. We were in a state of awe but thrilled to be asked to give evidence, and I hope that we helped.
The report has been a very useful part of the general discussion that we have had in this area. The noble Lord, Lord Rees, said it would be rash to predict what is going to happen over the next 20 years. However, as the report makes clear in its title, AI in the UK: Ready, Willing and Able?, it is important that we get ourselves in a position to be ready, not for exactly what is going to happen but for a whole range of possibilities as to how things will develop over the next 20, 30 or whatever years. That is why, back in early 2017, as part of the beginning of the industrial strategy and the UK Digital Strategy, the Government commissioned their independent review. I am sure that that is why this House took the decision to establish the committee that the noble Lord so skilfully chaired—I offer my congratulations again to him and all those who served on it—to look at the economic, ethical and social implications of advancing in ethical science.
The independent review that we then commissioned under Professor Wendy Hall and Jérôme Pesenti published its evidence in October of last year. Our industrial strategy came out in November, almost a year ago. In April of this year the noble Lord published his committee’s report, and within the appropriate number of weeks we published our response to it, in June 2018. As the noble Lord put it, he gave us a mixed scorecard but said it was a good start. I hope that since then we have done quite a lot more and are now making progress. We have announced the chairmanship of the AI council, which will go on to be set up.
In his speech the noble Lord set out five threads as a way of putting his speech together, the fifth being the unifying thread dealing with ethical development, and five suggested principles. I was finding it quite difficult to decide exactly what the best way of responding to a debate of this sort would be in terms of trying to bring together the vast range of different suggestions. Obviously I will not be able to answer every point that has been put to me in the course of the debate.
I thought that I might take not those five threads but instead the four core recommendations set out in the Hall/Pesenti review. The recommendations addressed improving access to data and dealing with the question of trust; skills, another issue that many noble Lords have dealt with; how we can maximise help for UK AI research; and support, by government and others, for the uptake of AI, which comes on to the questions of governance, ethics and so on. So I hope that with those four major groupings I will be able to deal with a number of questions that were put by noble Lords in the course of the debate.
I start with my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond, who talked about the need to make people feel part of the AI revolution and how we could, as he put it, avoid it being the next GM—something that should develop but to which some people have taken a rather negative approach. We agree that it is crucial that we engage with the public along with the new technology. I believe that the chilling effects, such as those referenced for GM, could limit the economic and social benefits. Public engagement should be a core function of the recently established Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation, about which I will say a little more later, along with the understanding that public perception and public acceptability will be core to the centre’s function to enable the maximisation of the benefits for all.
I turn to the importance of skills. This issue was first raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hollick, but in moving on to the health service the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, continued the point. It is important to improve access to skills. The changing nature of jobs is going to have an effect on other jobs as those jobs disappear. As some will be aware, a Deloitte analysis published in September last year found that we are in fact already adapting quite well to the effect of automation: from 2001 to 2015 there was a higher growth of jobs at low risk of automation than among those at high risk. Each new low-risk job pays considerably more on average than the high-risk job that it replaced, and that has added considerable funds —Deloitte estimated the figure at some £140 billion— to the UK economy.
AI is a new factor of production that could be used for labour substitution where labour is scarce, or to complement labour to produce higher-quality output. Obviously there will be a large number of professions and jobs that will need to evolve, while others could remain at high risk of displacement if they retain a high component of routine. That applies, as some noble Lords put it, to a number of professional jobs. Whether people are in the law or insurance, they will all need to change and adapt.
The Government are already offering a whole spectrum of skills packages, from the development of lifelong digital skills training plans through the Digital Skills Partnership to a revamped computer science curriculum in schools. Both my own department, BEIS, and the DCMS plan to work across the industry sector to support businesses to use AI more effectively and, in addition, to make the case for more flexible careers being more likely and beneficial to personal development.
I believe that in this area we can also compete internationally where it is necessary to bring in elements from abroad to accelerate innovation and advance the progress of AI. There are two very recent examples of that. First, at Davos my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced a new partnership with the World Economic Forum on developing a framework for responsible procurement of AI in the public sector.
Secondly, at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced with Prime Minister Modi the new UK-India tech partnership to identify and pair businesses, venture capital, universities and others to provide access routes to markets for British and Indian entrepreneurs and small and medium-sized enterprises.
Turning to migration issues, I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Hollick, who asked about the number of tech visas. I give an assurance that we have doubled the number to about 2,000. That will certainly bring more into this country, but it will be kept under review by the Home Office.
On funding for research, the Government responded in some detail in paragraph 53 to recommendations 31 and 32. We made it clear that the artificial intelligence sector deal was just the first commitment from the Government to realise the technology’s potential, outlining a package of almost £0.95 billion for the sector. Further research funding of £1.6 billion for R&D, not all in AI, was announced in the recent Budget, helping us to meet our commitment to get R&D expenditure up to the level set out in the industrial strategy a little over a year ago.
We are confident that our strategy is building on a very strong baseline. We were recently ranked first in the Oxford Insights government AI readiness index, measuring innovation, availability of data, skills and regulatory landscape. We are already home to some of the biggest names in the business, such as DeepMind, which has been mentioned. We are certainly looking for more investment, but we are seeing a great deal of it. In the sector deal, we announced the investment, but future investment was announced in the recent Budget.
I turn to the question of ethics in AI, particularly in health, raised by the noble Lords, Lord Kakkar and Lord Reid, my noble friend Lady Rock and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford. The crucial question is how we will address liability, including in health. We recognise the need to move forward on AI in an ethical and responsible manner. That is why we are establishing the centre for data ethics and innovation to advise on the governance of data and AI and to work with civil society, industry, the regulators and the public sector to strengthen their governance.
As noble Lords will be aware, we have closed our consultation on the scope for the centre and will shortly be publishing our response. We expect the centre to publish its operating strategy some time next spring. This will set out the themes and priorities for the centre. A core part of its remit will be to consider and scan the current regulatory landscape and advise the Government on gaps and improvements in data and AI.
In a rapidly changing industry and world, one must be aware of the danger of getting these things wrong. One is reminded of the introduction of the motor car, when Governments felt that they ought to regulate, thinking it best to put a man with a red flag walking in front of the motor car. Governments rapidly realised that that did not work and was rather impeding the development of that industry, and removed the man with the red flag. I hope that we can get the regulation, the ethics and everything else right. As the centre begins its work programme, we expect it to consider such issues and take them forward.
The noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, asked whether the recently published code of conduct should be made mandatory and how it should be taken forward. We launched it in September, and it is building on the Government’s data ethics framework. It is currently voluntary, with an ambition for companies to co-design the code. In parallel, the Government are keeping the regulatory landscape under review and will further consider the future of the code and how to enforce it as it progresses.
In the time available to me I am not sure that I can deal with many more questions. I want to answer the call of the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, for the Government to launch an inquiry, in line with the report, into autonomous weapons. We continue to engage across government and internationally. At this stage, I would not want to go much further than that. I note what he says—I think he said that there would be an opportunity to discuss it later this week. I am sure that my right honourable friends in the Foreign Office will take note of that.
As I said in my opening remarks, it is very difficult to do justice to a report such as this in the short time I have. I think that the Government got five or six out of 10—or perhaps a little more, because the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, is fairly generous—for our response to the report. We very much welcome the report, and I hope that he will welcome that response.
As I have set out, a great deal is happening at government and other levels. It is difficult to know quite how to respond on these occasions, but we have all reflected on how far we have come since the report was published in April. I believe wholeheartedly that we are on the cusp of an AI and data revolution that will change all our lives. Like my noble friend Lady Rock, I am one of the eternal optimists. I think it will change all our lives and communities for the better, and that this country is likely to be home to a thriving and vibrant AI sector, realising the vision that we have set out in the sector deal and in our response to the committee’s report—both encouraging investment and attracting the brightest minds.
Our ambition will not stop with that sector deal: it is only the beginning of the United Kingdom’s plans to be recognised as a place where ingenuity and entrepreneurship can continue to flourish, where technology follows the highest ethical standards and where the transformative potential of that technology is spread across the UK economy as widely as possible. With that, I thank the noble Lord for his report.
Productivity: Work-related Stress
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, an estimated 15.4 million working days were lost last year due to work-related stress, depression or anxiety. That is 57% of the total days lost due to work-related ill health. The 2017 Stevenson/Farmer review of workplace mental health made 40 recommendations, all of which were welcomed by the Government.
Lord Haskel (Lab)
I thank the Minister for that reply, but the Government’s latest skills and employment survey told us that we are working harder than ever and are under increased strain. In spite of this, productivity has stagnated. Recent research by McKinsey seems to show that less prescriptive management empowers staff to be more productive and reduces stress. What can be done to encourage this good practice? It would certainly help with the productivity puzzle. It also costs little and could relieve some of the mental health problems we hear about every day.
Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Lord is right to draw attention to productivity problems, which my right honourable friend the Secretary of State raised in the Industrial Strategy last year. He is also right to talk about work-related stress, which was recognised as a problem by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in January 2017. That is why she commissioned the review from the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and Paul Farmer, which produced its report in October last year. The Government then responded, accepting all the recommendations. The Government will do whatever they can both as an employer, to help to reduce work-related stress, and through setting an example to others and encouraging employers in other fields. We will also take note of the noble Lord’s suggestions.
Baroness Jolly (LD)
My Lords, large organisations have volunteer first-aiders. Would the Government consider having volunteer mental health first-aiders so that somebody with a mental health condition who wants signposting could go to them in the same way that somebody with a workplace injury could see someone?
Lord Henley
My Lords, that is a very interesting suggestion. I cannot remember the precise details of all the recommendations in the Stevenson/Farmer report as to whether that was one of them, but it certainly recommended that large employers—organisations with more than 500 people—should take certain actions. The Government recommended applying that to employers with more than 250 people, an improvement on that figure. I will certainly take the noble Baroness’s suggestion on board and ensure that it is looked at.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)
My Lords, I do not wish to trivialise the issue but I want to bask in the reflected glory of the name Stevenson. Unfortunately, it was nothing to do with me. I guess there must be quite a lot of stress in the party opposite in the current circumstances so I send them my best wishes at this difficult time.
Does the Minister accept that work-related stress is one of the components of job quality? On page 118 of the 254-page Industrial Strategy, the Government set out a programme of work stemming from Matthew Taylor’s review, which assessed job quality and success—including the well-being of workers and employees, which is said to be fundamental. Can he say what progress has been made on that work stream?
Lord Henley
My Lords, if the noble Lord can be patient, he will get a further response to the Taylor review in due course. I assure him that there is no stress in the Conservative Party or the Government at the moment.
Lord Hylton (CB)
My Lords, have the Government considered the impact on stress and mental health of zero-hours contracts? Does the Minister agree that although they may suit students and semi-retired people, they are not good for the rest of the population?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I am very glad that the noble Lord highlighted the fact that zero-hours contracts have a part to play in our economy. As he suggested, they are of considerable benefit to a great many people, such as students and retired people. They also benefit others. Again, if the noble Lord can be patient, he will hear more from the Government in due course.
Lord Fox (LD)
My Lords, I fear that this is beginning to sound a like a shopping list, but another way of alleviating stress in the workplace is for employees to have the tools and the training to be able to meet the requirements of their job. Does the Minister agree that the Government’s plans for industrial and workplace training are in a mess? The apprenticeship levy is falling down and workplace training is at a level lower than it has ever been. What will the Government do to get a grip on training?
Lord Henley
I admire the noble Lord’s ingenuity in trying to extend the Question to a great many other subjects. Stress has many causes; we understand that there is a problem with it; that is why we commissioned the review by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson—not the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, sitting opposite me—and Paul Farmer. It is also why the Government accepted what they suggested.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)
My Lords, if Brexit comes in and Airbus and other firms move out of north Wales, with some 7,000 jobs and 400 apprenticeships going with them, will that increase or decrease the stress of those involved in those industries?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I suspect that what will increase stress in those industries is the noble Lord and others putting about scare stories of that sort.
Lord Elton (Con)
My Lords, would it relieve the anxiety of noble Lords if the Minister reminded them that Aston Martin had decided to open a large works in Wales?
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)
My Lords, it is very good that we have such an experienced Minister replying to this Question. Can I urge him to consider introducing counselling sessions for those experiencing work-related depression and anxiety at the moment—namely, members of the Cabinet?
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, can we not have an award for resilience under stress presented to the Prime Minister?
Lord Razzall (LD)
My Lords, without meaning to hog the Question from the Liberal Democrat Benches, can I follow up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Haskel: that we appear to be working considerably harder without improving productivity? What does the Minister think about the suggestion made by a commentator in the Sunday Times that every company needs to invest in making the most of the talent they have rather than endlessly employing cheap labour?
Lord Henley
My Lords, we always welcome interventions from the Liberal Democrat Benches and never think there are too many.
Lord Henley
Sometimes.
I take note of the noble Lord’s suggestion. As we made clear, we accept that there is a problem with productivity. We want to improve it and get it up to levels that we see in other countries.
Electricity and Gas (Energy Company Obligation) Order 2018
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Lord Henley
That the draft Order and Regulations laid before the House on 19 July and 5 September be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 30 October.
Industrial Strategy
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, the industrial strategy has a fully operational governance framework. Implementation is led by a ministerial task force, which is overseen by the economic and industrial strategy cabinet committee. This is further supported by a cross-Whitehall programme board, which brings together senior officials in government to drive delivery.
Lord Fox (LD)
I thank the Minister for that Answer, but he did not include in his list the Industrial Strategy Council, which is designed to oversee this process. In a letter written to me on 16 February the Minister said, “Our plans to announce the formation of the Industrial Strategy Council by spring are progressing well”. I remind him that British Summer Time has now passed, and I am not aware of more than one member of this council. Can the Minister tell us when the full list of members of this council will be announced and when, at last, it will meet?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot give the noble Lord a precise date. I accept that it is not spring and that British Summer Time has ended. I had better say that, as the noble Lord knows, one member, the chairman, has been announced. The remaining members will be announced—dare I say it—shortly. I look forward to being able to share the names of those members with the noble Lord—in due course.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)
We have obviously stumbled into an audition for “Yes Minister”; I congratulate the noble Lord on his response. Would he agree with me that the industrial strategy has to be for the whole country? If so, why does the Cabinet sub-committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, charged with supervising the industrial strategy have no representatives from Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland in its membership? Can he confirm that the new strategy board—or strategy council; I thought it was the strategy board—will have representation from businesses, economists and academics from every nation and region of the United Kingdom?
Lord Henley
My Lords, on the Cabinet committee that will be looking at this issue, the noble Lord will be well aware that many members of the Cabinet —including my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy—have responsibilities that cover the entire United Kingdom, so the whole United Kingdom is covered in that respect. On the membership of the council itself, there will be 20 members. One member has been announced; the remaining 19 will cover the entire United Kingdom, covering as many different areas as it is possible for 20 members to cover. Again, I look forward to sharing that list of members with the noble Lord and with the noble Lord, Lord Fox—in due course.
Baroness Greengross (CB)
My Lords, I declare my interests as on the list. On responsible businesses, I have chaired or co-chaired the relevant all-party group for many years. It is very good news that the Government are taking steps towards setting up a cross-departmental advisory group on responsible business, which will support them in making this strategy a reality. I urge the Government to move faster on appointing people to the group; nearly a year on from the paper’s publication, we need the voice of responsible business to be shaping the implementation of the strategy as soon as possible.
Lord Henley
My Lords, I can assure the noble Baroness that much has happened since the publication in November 2017 of the industrial strategy; indeed, I could speak at length listing all the things that have happened. Again, I ask the noble Baroness to be patient: we will announce the membership of this committee shortly, but we want to make sure we have the right people in place to look at the long-term development and success of the strategy.
Lord Haskel (Lab)
The White Paper promised us a separate council, the purpose of which is to stimulate and motivate action from the Government. Is this why the council has not yet been appointed?
Lord Henley
No. The point of the council, as I made clear to the noble Baroness in my earlier answer, is to look at the long term and at the development of the industrial strategy, and to ensure its success. That is why it is very important that we get the right people, all representing themselves, rather than any particular sector, and covering a whole range of areas and the entire United Kingdom, as I said to noble Lord, Lord Stevenson.
Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)
My Lords, as always, I am much too eager to make my points; I apologise to the Minister for standing while he was speaking. Given the wide scope of the industrial strategy, how will it ensure that women’s leadership is reflected in its ambition? Will he also take the opportunity to write to the House to say how many women will be part of its governing institutions?
Lord Henley
My Lords, as I have made clear, I am not in a position to give the list of all those who will be on the council, but I can be clear that it will be as representative as it is possible to be with 20 members; of course, with 20 members it is difficult to ensure that one covers every last corner of the kingdom. I look forward to being able to send a copy of the letter to the noble Baroness and to others, listing all members. As I have said, I look forward to doing that very shortly.
Lord Patel (CB)
My Lords, in their response to the Science and Technology Committee report, Life Sciences Industrial Strategy, the Government said they would be publishing the timelines with clear matrices to allow for independent scrutiny. When will this be published and who will be the independent scrutiniser?
Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Lord has been scrutinising the industrial strategy, and particularly the parts of it relating to life sciences, ever since we published it, and we debated this only last week. He knows all about what we are doing on the life sciences part of it, and he knows the full membership of the life sciences innovation board and the Life Sciences Council. I look forward to sharing with him the membership of the Industrial Strategy Council when it is published.
Business Contract Terms (Assignment of Receivables) Regulations 2018
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That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 4 and 18 July be approved.
Considered in Grand Committee on 17 October.